EPTMafia Mini Mafia2: another miniature game of mafia
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Take the post that Palmer convinces himself with: On April 07 2015 19:39 Palmar wrote: Okay clearly you're being affected by a small head syndrome. HF and Obi were having a shitfest. I'm not arguing that. When this happens there are a few options open to a player not involved. Some of them are useful, some are useless. Here's a few options GB could have taken. GB could have:
You'll notice that he did actually take one of the options. The problem I have is that is by fare the worst option available. By his own admission he wasn't trying to stop them, so what was he trying to achieve? He wasn't being funny, he wasn't being sociable, he wasn't trying to bring up a new subject, he wasn't scumhunting or trying to poke people further. Why did GB post? Two points here: "HF and Obi were having a shitfest" - That's not right. They exchanged maybe 5 small one liners and a picture between themselves. It's a very mild scuffle / banter. If GB could be accused of "stopping" anything, it's mild banter. "The problem I have is that is by far the worst option available" - Palmer isn't actually showing why GB is scum with this. How does this make him scum? He points out things that GB could have done, and then concludes that by act of omission GB must be scum. How? There's a huge logical gap there. This type of weak reasoning could easily be applied to anyone else on those pages, and again, we are talking about day 1 early game banter here. Palmer's analysis is weak because he is either exaggerating or misconstruing what GB said and did, and is suggesting GB is scum without actually giving a reason why he is scum. | ||
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On April 08 2015 05:05 yamato77 wrote: Worst post in the thread award goes to GB for this pile of scummy shit. Could you please explain how this post is alignment indicative? | ||
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On April 08 2015 05:23 yamato77 wrote: It is both a horrible straw man and a pathetic attempt at defending oneself from accusations. Your post on Palmar's post is also pretty bad. GJ. Again, could you please explain how this post is alignment indicative? All I see is an argument claiming that it is a low quality post, not an argument showing that it is a scum aligned post. Same for your comment on my post. You claim that it's bad - that's it? Am I scum for it? Is Palmar town for his post? Do you have any conclusions? Damdred, could you give one town read that's not Palmar and a brief (like 1 liner) explanation for it? | ||
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The guy who initially responded to GB's post. From which Palmar started his GB campaign. From which there is currently a wagon on someone we definitely shouldn't be lynching today. Carry on. | ||
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I don't mind if you park your vote on me in the meantime, just that you would at some point be able to read thread before deadline. | ||
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And as an aside, I'm somewhat a stickler for precision. I made a post about my thoughts on Palmar's interpretation on GB because I felt that it was, in fact, a weak observation. And when I say weak, I'm not trying to diminish the Palmar's contribution to the thread. I'm pointing out that I feel that the observation is not that alignment indicative. The comment GB made could have easily stemmed from perhaps unpleasant past game histories where an Obi vs HF discussion ruined his enjoyment of the game. It's quite the stretch to suppose GB is actively shutting down discussion with that one comment. In fact Palmar himself cedes this point 10 minutes later. On April 07 2015 19:52 Palmar wrote: Meh, maybe I am nitpicking, but it's the best I've got at the moment. I made my post because I felt that other players may also have, what I think, misinterpreted how p8-9 played out (or maybe not even have read it for themselves but took Palmar's word for it). And I believe to some degree, most of the first half of D1 was like that. Now through a back and forth between GB and Palmar, there arose, I believe, another layer of misunderstanding / misinterpretation. From GB's perspective, the only way that Palmar's accusation makes sense, would be that he is scum, shutting down discussion as to not draw attention to his teammate. This is reasonable - I'm not saying that this is true, but I can see how a town player could see things as such. Palmar however took that as a misinterpretation of his argument, and from then on called GB scum for that. I think this too is reasonable - I'm not saying this accurately reflects the situation, but I can see how a town player could see things as such. I didn't bother giving a fleshed out read on Palmar because I wasn't heavily decided on his alignment one way or another. You can see from the general tone of my first post that I was leaning on the part of suspicion, but you can see from my lack of Palmar read that I didn't really think he must have been scum at that point. It's not effective for me to say "hey guys, I feel so-so on Palmar, since I could see it as town or mafia aligned" so I chose not to comment further. And at this point I'm still only soft leaning town on him (town for his presence and activity, leaning because I just don't see GB's posts the way he does). I don't think GB is intentionally misinterpreting his accusations, and I think from GB's general behavior (sans his Palmar interaction) has been pretty good. I'll post more soon. Feel free to discuss or reserve your judgement until I post more. This post is only part 1. | ||
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I'll be playing them out one by one as I craft my posts. | ||
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My strongest scum read at this point is Vivax. It's not for any single incriminating post, but a result as using process of elimination of town reads. On a general observation of Vivax, he is definitely present and posting in thread. However I find that many of his posts are general "I like this" or "let me repeat what this other guy said". I don't get the sense of him trying to convince someone of anything, but rather making comments as to appear active. Secondly, it seems he is more interested in figuring out my real identity rather than figuring out my alignment. He has made several guesses at who I could be, but has yet to engage anyone in figuring out what my alignment is. Again, this ties into the first point, which is that he gives off a "backseat" playstyle, where he watches people do their thing, but doesn't really seem to be trying to figure things out, or if he has, convince others. Last, watch how he came to land his vote on me. On April 08 2015 19:51 Vivax wrote: Count me in on the lynch DR club. On April 08 2015 19:57 Vivax wrote: Didn't understand shit of how the stuff Palmar said makes GB mafia, I'm moving to DR. So he equates my lack of understanding (or to be clear, agreement) of Palmar's case on GB with scummy feigned ignorance of sorts. 30 minutes later? On April 08 2015 20:34 Vivax wrote: List time? List time. Meh pile: GB - Palmar had a point with him staying on the sidelines in the Obi vs HF matter. His argument that he has to be scum with one of them to be scum doesn't hold water. But Palmars last post on him with all the believing shit sounds like Palmar made something massive about something he could have said in a single line, and I don't see that being the scummiest post in the thread. Palmar - Back into meh pile for the confusing post nobody understands. I have seen such a post on marv in a game a while ago. Palmar wasn't mafia but he also wasn't right. So you become meh. Scummy: Dread Return - Feels like he only commented on one thing in a tryhard fashion simply cause it was the thing most people seemed to pay attention to. Question to Damdred seemed disconnected but he justified it in a believable way. The issue remains that he only paid attention to that one matter which is a scum trait in my opinion. Also doesn't want to give a read on Palmar in the process of arguing that he misconstrued GB. GB somehow moves into the null pile, even though Palmar's original case against GB should still be considered legitimate and applicable at this stage. I mean, if you are going to call someone scum because they don't agree with case, then you must believe that the case is legitimate. Alas, the case wasn't really resolved yet GB moves into the null pile, because Palmar's last post seems like a stretch. Disconnect - why are the two related? How does one weak point of a case discredit the rest of the case, especially if you so strongly believe it to make reads off of it? Palmar moves to the meh pile - for what? One post that seems like a stretch? Again, if Vivax is putting so much weight on Palmar's case on GB, how is he dismissing it all for such a minor point? I mean, look at that flip-flop! "Palmar's last post is meh. Anecdotal evidence. Meh" The last post on me is summed up as "he didn't post - must be scum" - and yet he mentions nothing of my lack of understanding Palmar's original case, which is the first thing that he mentioned when jumping on mention of my bandwagon. This seems like a huge oversight in consistency. So all in all I feel like Vivax is doing enough to be seen as active in thread while not really participating, and making sketchy calls as he goes along with general thread sentiment. ##Vote: Vivax p.s. I have more thoughts but I tried rushing the most important parts out - I'll have more later. | ||
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Well then I feel even better about this. | ||
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That cryptic post of mine with 1) 2) 3) - it was to hint my intentions as to why I would be asking Damdred a question. There's a GB wagon. I think he is town. Looks like a mislynch - let's see how it started. Oh Damdred. Time to get a better read on him. I laid out the general steps without filling in the details to see who was reading my posts carefully / who just dismissed them. | ||
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On April 09 2015 05:14 yamato77 wrote: Could be scum but my case on you is better. So being the first to think and speak up against a potential GB mislynch makes me scum? I'll cede the point of not posting frequently. I'll also cede the point that I chose not to comment on Palmar. What I just don't understand is the notion that I'm scum because I thought GB was town before many other players did. How? | ||
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On April 09 2015 06:40 Koshi wrote: In this limited timeframe I would like to encourage you to talk about possible scumreads and reasons why you are town over interrogating people you think are town. Or do you think yamato is mafia? Which is possible. Also. I think only 2 people think gb is possible town. Can you quickly givs your scumreads DR? Sleep time soon for me. After Vivax, HolyFlare and Obi, by process of elimination. I could argue why I think someone is more town than these three if you would like. | ||
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Damdred, thoughts on Vivax? | ||
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On April 09 2015 07:18 ObiWanShinobi wrote: Does it not bother you that your proposed team is trying to lynch into itself? I don't see how anyone in this group is actually trying to get someone else in the group lynched. Like, actually lynched. | ||
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On April 09 2015 07:19 Palmar wrote: Why are you so shit DR? Let's assume that I'm a terribad player Palmar. Where do we go from there? Do we just lynch terribad players and then blame them when they flip town? Talk to me about how crap by Vivax case is. | ||
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On April 09 2015 07:20 Koshi wrote: I dont think you and vivax can be mafia together. Gut feeling. I dont think Damdred and gb are mafia together. Holyflare can be mafia with everybody. Hmm. I dont really think obi is mafia. Could be. Something about the amount of letters in his posts. But he had a townie moment I quoted somewhere. Forgot what it was. You disagree with that? Or did he do more mafia things somewhere? Show me then. Please answer quickly. Bedtime is really close. My water is getting cold. Alright maybe this will help. Vivax HF Obi other people. I don't feel strongly about Obi. He is forgettable. In my spreadsheet he has the least amount of comments so by virtue of being most forgettable, he gets relegated to third place. | ||
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On April 09 2015 07:23 Koshi wrote: Poor dreadie. Palmar is just testing you. Can you tell me you are really not OdinOfPergo? If you are I will have to defend you. No I'm not who that is. No one is remotely close, and I'm not interested in disclosing who I am - hence the smurf. | ||
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I was trying to imitate the popular read dump in order of scummy to townie. I feel most strongly on Vivax. Like, I can put words to it. The other guys? I ticked off people who I thought was more townie and that's the list I ended up with. Do I feel strongly on those two? Not particularly. But it's the closest thing I have to more scum reads. | ||
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On April 09 2015 09:01 Damdred wrote: Dr what is so bad about vivax, I read his filter his early call out to me didn't look bad to me, his list post wasn't horrible wrong in places but not bad and he is generally making good observations? To generalize, it would be he is never at the forefront of discussion - he isn't really getting his thoughts out there or pushing his agenda. Merely commenting and taking a backseat approach to things. It gives off the feeling that he wants to look active, but isn't interested in actually getting scum lynched. Additionally, his viewpoint of the GB / Palmar / me trio has shifted in a way that I think was unnatural. | ||
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One of the early town tells I saw in GB was that he was, perhaps, one of the first to notice HF's little hidden posts. I know I missed the post (maybe cause I was skimming past the HF game ones), but he was attentive enough to see it. And I correlate attentiveness to thread somewhat to towniness, since most of the time scum don't really read that closely. Agree / disagree? | ||
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On April 09 2015 09:26 Palmar wrote: You're still bad even if I'm defending you DR. I mean ... sure. That's part of why I'm smurfing. But like ... you can give feedback and stuff on how not to be bad or something? | ||
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Unless you are of opinion that only scum would not reveal identity when smurfing? | ||
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GB has been absent for a good 22 hours so I'm inclined to think that I might just be dead wrong with my initial read so ##Unvote Vivax ##Vote GlowingBear I still think Vivax is a stronger scum read though. | ||
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On April 09 2015 10:11 Holyflare wrote: I don't want to lynch vivax when he has so much potential. His scum games are never over like 5 pages total in 5 cycles either. What's to followup here? "No, Vivax isn't worth it, let's kill him"? Give everyone you can meta read a pass? You aren't talking about Vivax's actions beside post count, which isn't really addressing my case at all. | ||
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Just agree with it, and let's talk fresh about Vivax (regardless of what I flip, discussing him now is good). If anything you want me to say lots of stuff about lots of people. Final List: yamato - I agreed with most of his full effort read and his list lined up well with mine. Koshi - same as above. I think this is the style I would like to emulate, but I went too far with the silence. My bad. Palmar - I always have an (un)healthy starting suspicion for strong players, so it's hard to put him higher. Damdred - Reasonable posts. I wish he would be a bit more vocal but he is sick or something. rsoultin - I'm not sure how to explain it ... but something like carefree? Very relaxed demeanor, Eden - also read resoultin town early and caught the hidden post. ritoky - has shown he is attentive to thread despite pictures etc. Glowingbear (?) - Based on his first half D1 play, I'd still say town. D2 total absence and Palmar's insistence makes me iffy. Onegu - nondescript. I can't really say much. ObiWan - same here. HolyFlare - fixated on getting me to reveal my identity ... ? Gives Vivax a pass because of potential, so is ignoring the bulk of my points against him. Vivax - It's the best I've got. Maybe it's harder to see from your perspectives because I'm so scummy, or maybe my reads are in fact not that good this game. Good luck town. I'll field whatever questions you have here or post game. (I still might not reveal who I am then for personal reasons, but we can reserve that discussion for then). | ||
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Hold Vivax and HF accountable for tomorrow, make sure they don't skate like they did today. | ||
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On April 09 2015 07:24 DreadReturn wrote: Alright maybe this will help. Vivax HF Obi other people. I don't feel strongly about Obi. He is forgettable. In my spreadsheet he has the least amount of comments so by virtue of being most forgettable, he gets relegated to third place. HF, I got nothing. My strongest read I have is on Vivax. You said it sucks. Ok. Next is you. I guess you think that sucks to. Distant third is Obi, and only by process of elimination. I'm not going to fabricate reads. I have him as scum because I have everyone else slightly more town than him. As a point of morale, if you actively shut down what I bring to the table, what makes you think I want to keep engaging in conversation with you? What can I even bring? Why wouldn't anyone want to just ignore you? | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote Vivax | ||
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On April 09 2015 12:16 Holyflare wrote: Basically there's more than one mafia in the game and if you're incapable of looking past that to talk about other reads then you need to brush up on that fact. It's also super crazy to scum read the guy giving you a free out. Yes I understand that I have been narrow sighted. It's also tough for me to just make up reads. | ||
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On March 20 2015 09:24 Fecalfeast wrote: Setup Information This game setup is open. The possible roles and number of each role is disclosed here. Town One of each of the following roles will be among the town: Town Jailkeeper(JK)(town): You are the Town Jailkeeper! Each night you may choose a player currently alive to incarcerate. That player may not use any actions in the night and also will be protected from all KP that night. All of it, even if three people shoot that guy he will live. You win with town, jailkeeper. Town Vigilante(vig)(town): You are the Town Vigilante! You have a gun, which can fire bullets. You have one bullet, which can be fired from your gun, which you can fire at a player in the night. You win with town, and are the vigilante. Vanilla Townie(VT)(town): You are a vanilla townie. You are similar to vanilla, in that you are the most basic type of town. Just like vanilla is to icecream. You win with town, as you are town. There will be eight players with this role. There will be eight vanilla townies. Mafia One of each of the following roles will be among the mafia: Mafia Vigilante(vig)(mafia): You are the Mafia Vigilante! You are similar to the town vigilante in that you have a single bullet to shoot at night. If you find yourself roleblocked on the night you shoot, your bullet is returned to you. You are mafia. You win with mafia. Mafia Roleblocker(RB)(mafia): You are the Mafia Roleblocker! Each night, as the roleblocker, you may block a player from using their role. If that player uses any power associated with the role they are playing, it is blocked. You win with mafia, and block roles. Mafia Goon(goon)(mafia): You are the Mafia Goon! The mafia uses you to do their dirty work, similar to a goon. You have no powers, aside from being able to carry the kill for the mafia. The other mafia can carry it, but you can too. You are mafia and win with mafia. For clarity, does that mean there is both 1 town jk, 1 town vig, 1 mafia vig, 1 mafia rb in the game, or 1 town jk / vig, 1 mafia vig/rb in the game? | ||
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On April 08 2015 21:58 Koshi wrote: Vivax is mafia. Unlike me his clarification for his reads were made to be serious. So it is a problem that I laugh at them pretty loudly. The read that Vivax gives on GB is really awful. It is rehearsing something really dumb GB said and painting it scummy? Well, he isn't really painting it scummy, he is for some reason scumreading GB for it... And then townreading GB because Palmar made a horrible case on GB. How does that work? At least that's how I read it. Terrible stuff. The read on Palmar doesn't make sense. Basically Palmar made a post which demoted him from town to meh even though Vivax remembers town!Palmar making such a post recently. How can you demote somebody from townread to null if that person does something meta towny? Read on Obi seems pretty dramatical. The thing Obi said about HF isn't Obi scumreading HF, it is Obi not understanding why the person he quoted townreaded HF. Digging this back up for attention. | ||
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