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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
On March 10 2015 11:01 Toadesstern wrote:/in Show nested quote +The possible actions that could result from using the orb are as follows:
1 one-time rolecheck on the given target
2 one-time track ability so the first one is the guy with the orb checks the target and the second one is the guy with the orb gives a one-shot track to the target? Or is that a typo and the target gets tracked?
new explanation written by blazinghand:
The orb is an Item. You can recieve the orb regardless of your role. You use the orb at night. To activate the orb, pm the hosts with "##orb: Target" and the orb will be used. Which power the orb uses is RNGed from the following list:
RB
Track
Vig Shot
Rolecop Check
Suicide (you are hit with 1 kp, the target is not affected)
You do not know which power will be used, only who it is being used on (since you choose the target). When a power is used, it's no longer on the list available to be RNGed. Someone who tries to use the orb and is RBed, fails to use the orb, and no power is expended. Whether or not you use the orb, at the end of the night it travels to a new random player.
When the orb has been used 5 times or there are 11 or fewer players, it goes away.
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
could just get rid of the self-kp option and it's like a joat item that wanders
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
On March 11 2015 02:57 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2015 01:52 Blazinghand wrote:
could just get rid of the self-kp option and it's like a joat item that wanders Yea but given the probabilities then it's just town-favoured. I think that it needs some more benefits for mafia as they are more unlikely to get it.
meh, if we have it replace a blue role in our balance (or probably replace 1.5 blue roles since scum can't just shoot this dead) it acts a lot like a JOAT. Simple and doesn't require that much tweaking
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
On March 11 2015 03:09 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2015 03:01 Blazinghand wrote:On March 11 2015 02:57 Vivax wrote:On March 11 2015 01:52 Blazinghand wrote:
could just get rid of the self-kp option and it's like a joat item that wanders Yea but given the probabilities then it's just town-favoured. I think that it needs some more benefits for mafia as they are more unlikely to get it. meh, if we have it replace a blue role in our balance (or probably replace 1.5 blue roles since scum can't just shoot this dead) it acts a lot like a JOAT. Simple and doesn't require that much tweaking But it's a JOAT that can confirm people town who get it and have a lucky roll, any town is going to use this on their scumreads, and mafia won't share the results unless they roll track and happen to hit somebody who visits one of their NKs. Not really happy with a wandering town confirmation machine (if you rolecheck on a mafia it's just like a cop check? All roles are named so)
Rolecheck returns "vanilla" for goons and "JK" for RBs, and "cop" for mafia rolecops. It doesn't give alignment. At least, that's what I assume, otherwise it would be very powerful.
But yeah, not sure why scum wouldn't activate the abilities and share the results
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
On March 19 2015 06:11 LightningStrike wrote:
Are we allowed to vote for a No Lynch?
5. You may not vote for yourself. You may not vote for anyone dead or outside the game.
6. You may not vote for a no-lynch.
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
Day 1: Current Vote Count
raynpelikoneet (3): Holyflare, Damdred, rsoultin
Eden1892 (2): Fecalfeast, Onegu, Bill Murray, ExO
sicklucker (2): Eden1892, Holyflare, rsoultin, Alakaslam, Superbia, Alakaslam,
LightningStrike (2): Bill Murray, Toadesstern, FecalFeast
Toadesstern (1): Palmar, Artanis
Alakaslam (1): Holyflare, Artanis, sicklucker, Eden1892
Damdred (1): raynpelikoneet
Artanis (1): Toadesstern
ExO_ (1): Eden1892
Palmar (0): Toadesstern, Toadesstern, Bill Murray
Trfel (0): Artanis, Superbia, Eden1892
Holyflare (0): Alakaslam
Vivax (0): Holyflare
Not Voting (6): Vivax, LightningStrike, Breshke, Trfel, VisceraEyes, Artanis
Currently, raynpelikoneet is set to be executed. Day 1 ends in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00).
Reminder to make sure to unvote before voting, if you have already voted someone.
Voting is mandatory and in this thread. You may NOT abstain.
Posting after the deadline and prior to flip is subject to a modkill.
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
Day 1: Current Vote Count
raynpelikoneet (3): Holyflare, Damdred, rsoultin
Damdred (3): raynpelikoneet, sicklucker, Artanis[Xp]
sicklucker (2): Eden1892, Holyflare, rsoultin, Alakaslam, Superbia, Alakaslam, Eden1892
Eden1892 (2): Fecalfeast, Onegu, Bill Murray, ExO
Artanis[Xp] (2): Toadesstern, Eden1892
LightningStrike (2): Bill Murray, Toadesstern, FecalFeast
Toadesstern (1): Palmar, Artanis[Xp]
VisceraEyes (0): Artanis[Xp]
Alakaslam (0): Holyflare, Artanis, sicklucker, Eden1892
ExO_ (0): Eden1892
Palmar (0): Toadesstern, Toadesstern, Bill Murray
Trfel (0): Artanis, Superbia, Eden1892
Holyflare (0): Alakaslam
Vivax (0): Holyflare
Not Voting (5): Vivax, LightningStrike, Breshke, Trfel, VisceraEyes
Currently, raynpelikoneet is set to be executed. Day 1 ends in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00).
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
Day 1: Current Vote Count
Vivax (7): Holyflare, Artanis[Xp], Damdred, LightningStrike, sicklucker, Toadesstern, Trfel, ExO_, rsoultin
Toadesstern (4): Palmar, Artanis[Xp], raynpelikoneet, Vivax, VisceraEyes
LightningStrike (3): Bill Murray, Toadesstern, FecalFeast, raynpelikoneet, Vivax, Onegu
sicklucker (3): Eden1892, Holyflare, rsoultin, Alakaslam, Superbia, Alakaslam, Eden1892, Breshke
raynpelikoneet (2): Holyflare, Damdred, rsoultin, Trfel, ExO_, Damdred
Artanis[Xp] (1): Toadesstern, Eden1892, VisceraEyes, Eden1892
Eden1892 (0): Fecalfeast, Onegu, Bill Murray, ExO
Damdred (0): raynpelikoneet, sicklucker, Artanis[Xp]
Superbia (0): Eden1892
VisceraEyes (0): Artanis[Xp]
Alakaslam (0): Holyflare, Artanis, sicklucker, Eden1892
ExO_ (0): Eden1892
Palmar (0): Toadesstern, Toadesstern, Bill Murray
Trfel (0): Artanis, Superbia, Eden1892
Holyflare (0): Alakaslam
Not Voting (0):
Currently, Vivax is set to be executed. Day 1 ends in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00).
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
Day 1: Current Vote Count
Vivax (7): Holyflare, Artanis[Xp], Damdred, LightningStrike, sicklucker, Toadesstern, Trfel, ExO_, rsoultin, Palmar, Damdred
Bill Murray (6): Holyflare, Eden1892, rsoultin, Superbia, Vivax, Breshke
Toadesstern (3): Palmar, Artanis[Xp], raynpelikoneet, Vivax, VisceraEyes, Palmar
LightningStrike (3): Bill Murray, Toadesstern, FecalFeast, raynpelikoneet, Vivax, Onegu
sicklucker (1): Eden1892, Holyflare, rsoultin, Alakaslam, Superbia, Alakaslam, Eden1892, Breshke
raynpelikoneet (0): Holyflare, Damdred, rsoultin, Trfel, ExO_, Damdred
Artanis[Xp] (0): Toadesstern, Eden1892, VisceraEyes, Eden1892
Eden1892 (0): Fecalfeast, Onegu, Bill Murray, ExO
Damdred (0): raynpelikoneet, sicklucker, Artanis[Xp]
Superbia (0): Eden1892
VisceraEyes (0): Artanis[Xp]
Alakaslam (0): Holyflare, Artanis, sicklucker, Eden1892
ExO_ (0): Eden1892
Palmar (0): Toadesstern, Toadesstern, Bill Murray
Trfel (0): Artanis, Superbia, Eden1892
Holyflare (0): Alakaslam
Not Voting (0):
Currently, Vivax is set to be executed. Day 1 ends in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00).
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
Day 2: Current Vote Count
LightningStrike (14): Artanis[Xp], Trfel, Toadesstern, rsoultin, Damdred, Fecalfeast, Eden1892, Alakaslam, raynpelikoneet, sicklucker, sicklucker, Palmar, ExO_, Onegu, Breshke
rsoultin (1): Alakaslam, LightningStrike
Toadesstern (0): sicklucker
Not Voting (2): Vivax, Superbia
Currently, LightningStrike is set to be executed. Day 2 ends in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00).
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
Day 3: Current Vote Count
Onegu (3): Artanis[Xp], Eden1892, Trfel, Fecalfeast, Toadesstern, Trfel, Alakaslam
Alakaslam (2): Vivax, Trfel, Eden1892, sicklucker, Toadesstern, Artanis[Xp], Vivax
Fecalfeast (1): Eden1892, Vivax, Alakaslam
Artanis[Xp] (1): Superbia, FecalFeast
ritoky (1): Damdred
Superbia (0): Artanis[Xp]
Eden1892 (0): Alakaslam
Not Voting (5): sicklucker, Onegu, Breshke, ritoky, Superbia
Currently, Onegu is set to be executed. Day 3 ends in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00).
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
Day 3: Current Vote Count
Superbia (6): Artanis[Xp], Eden1892, FecalFeast, Alakaslam, ritoky, Damdred
Onegu (2): Artanis[Xp], Eden1892, Trfel, Fecalfeast, Toadesstern, Trfel, Alakaslam
Alakaslam (1): Vivax, Trfel, Eden1892, sicklucker, Toadesstern, Artanis[Xp], Vivax
ritoky (0): Damdred
Artanis[Xp] (0): Superbia, FecalFeast
Fecalfeast (0): Eden1892, Vivax, Alakaslam
Superbia (0): Artanis[Xp]
Eden1892 (0): Alakaslam
Not Voting (4): sicklucker, Onegu, Breshke, Superbia
Currently, Superbia is set to be executed. Day 3 ends in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00).
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
Day 3: Current Vote Count
Superbia (7): Artanis[Xp], Eden1892, FecalFeast, Alakaslam, ritoky, Damdred, Toadesstern
Alakaslam (1): Vivax, Trfel, Eden1892, sicklucker, Toadesstern, Artanis[Xp], Vivax
Vivax (1): Trfel
Onegu (0): Artanis[Xp], Eden1892, Trfel, Fecalfeast, Toadesstern, Trfel, Alakaslam
ritoky (0): Damdred
Artanis[Xp] (0): Superbia, FecalFeast
Fecalfeast (0): Eden1892, Vivax, Alakaslam
Superbia (0): Artanis[Xp]
Eden1892 (0): Alakaslam
Not Voting (4): sicklucker, Onegu, Breshke, Superbia
Currently, Superbia is set to be executed. Day 3 ends in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00).
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
Day 3: Current Vote Count
Superbia (8): Artanis[Xp], Eden1892, FecalFeast, Alakaslam, ritoky, Damdred, Toadesstern, Trfel
Alakaslam (1): Vivax, Trfel, Eden1892, sicklucker, Toadesstern, Artanis[Xp], Vivax
Vivax (0): Trfel
Onegu (0): Artanis[Xp], Eden1892, Trfel, Fecalfeast, Toadesstern, Trfel, Alakaslam
ritoky (0): Damdred
Artanis[Xp] (0): Superbia, FecalFeast
Fecalfeast (0): Eden1892, Vivax, Alakaslam
Superbia (0): Artanis[Xp]
Eden1892 (0): Alakaslam
Not Voting (4): sicklucker, Onegu, Breshke, Superbia
Currently, Superbia is set to be executed. Day 3 ends in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00).
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
Day 3: Current Vote Count
Alakaslam (6): Vivax, Trfel, Eden1892, sicklucker, Toadesstern, Artanis[Xp], Vivax, Damdred, Breshke, Eden1892, Onegu, Artanis[Xp]
Superbia (3): Artanis[Xp], Eden1892, FecalFeast, Alakaslam, ritoky, Damdred, Toadesstern, Trfel
Onegu (3): Artanis[Xp], Eden1892, Trfel, Fecalfeast, Toadesstern, Trfel, Alakaslam, Trfel, sicklucker, Breshke, FecalFeast
Vivax (0): Trfel
Breshke (0): Onegu
ritoky (0): Damdred
Artanis[Xp] (0): Superbia, FecalFeast
Fecalfeast (0): Eden1892, Vivax, Alakaslam
Superbia (0): Artanis[Xp]
Eden1892 (0): Alakaslam
Not Voting (1): Superbia
Currently, Alakaslam is set to be executed. Day 3 ends in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00).
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
Day 3: Current Vote Count
Alakaslam (7): Vivax, Damdred, Breshke, Eden1892, Onegu, Artanis[Xp], Superbia
Onegu (4): Trfel, sicklucker, FecalFeast, ritoky
Superbia (2): Alakaslam, Toadesstern,
Currently, Alakaslam is set to be executed. Day 3 ends in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00).
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
"Keep calling me vermin tough guy!
You're just going to keep laughing at me like everyone else!"
"Rocket, you're drunk! No one is going to keep laughing at you!"
"I didn't ask to be made,
I didn't ask to be torn apart,
I didn't ask to be put back together,
Over and over and turned into some little monster!
Drax called me vermin!
Gamora called me rodent!
LET'S SEE IF YOU CAN HANDLE FIVE OR SIX SHOTS OF MY FURY!"
Alakaslam, as a Nova Corpsman (Town Vanilla) has been executed.
It is now night time. Night 3 ends in 24 hours at 23:00 GMT (+00:00)
Please forward all night actions to Blazinghand and HtS at least 20 minutes prior to the daypost.
Countdown to daypost:
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
Day 5: Current Vote Count
Breshke (4) sicklucker, Onegu, Vivax, Artanis[Xp], Trfel
ritoky (2): Toadesstern, Damdred
Fecalfeast (2): Breshke, Artanis[Xp], Onegu
Onegu (1): Fecalfeast
Not Voting (1): ritoky
Currently, Breshke is set to be executed. Day 5 ends in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00).
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
stand by and stop posting.
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
Time Cycle Change
Last night, HTS called for votes on whether to shorten the time cycle based on the requests received.
The vote was unanimous in favour and effective today (Day 6), the day cycle has been shortened to 24 hours, onward.
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
Day 6
"The only matter I do not take seriously, boy, is you.
Your politics BORE me.
Your behaviour is like that of a pouty child.
And apparently you alienated my favourite daughter Gamora.
I shall honour our agreement, Kree, if you bring me the orb.
But return to me again empty handed and I shall bathe the starways in your blood!"
Vivax, as Drax the Destroyer (Town Vigilante) was obliterated.
Day 6 has begun.
Day 6 ends in 23.5 hours at 23:00 GMT (+00:00)
At that time, the player with the most votes gets lynched.
The voting thread is located here.
Countdown:
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
Day 7: Current Vote Count
Fecalfeast (3): Toadesstern, Onegu, Trfel
Onegu (2): Fecalfeast, sicklucker
Not Voting (1): Damdred
Currently, Fecalfeast is set to be executed. Day 7 ends in at 23:00 GMT (+00:00).
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
Hi! I'm BH and I balanced this setup. I'm around to answer.questions
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
The trick for me is to live in my parent's basement and only leave for meals my mom makes
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Blazinghand
United States25561 Posts
So to go over what we talked about for this setup....
+ Show Spoiler +http://i.imgur.com/rPwNlr8.png
Seriously though, we faced 2 major challenges with this setup. first, we had 20 players, which is an awkward number of players to have-- a little too much for 4 mafia, a little too small for 5 mafia. With 4 mafia and 3 kp and delivery restrictions on kp count, and no PR problems, with all mislynches you get:
D1 16-4
D2 12-4
D3 8-4 LYLO (All lynches from here go 5-3, 3-2, 2-1 LYLO)
so you could plausibly use that setup, giving town 3 mislynches to mafia's 4 members, which is not how you want to do it. If you reduced scum's KP to like, 3-2-2-2 or "3 on day 1, 2 on the rest" or something, it would be balanceable. The downside is it becomes kinda a swingy shitfest and there's big opportunities for PRs to make big changes, since if you knock off one or two mafia early on it becomes super impossible for mafia. I think high KP, huge town, small mafia is not the way to go in terms of "fun", even if it's balanced. We could try a different KP scaling, like 3 - 2 - 2 - 2 instead of 3 - 3 - 2 - 1 and try to give mafia some tweaks to balance it but no matter what, if you don't include 3p and you have 16-4 as your setup,
So we decided to go for 15 town, 5 mafia and give mafia much fewer kp. Instead of giving mafia 3 kp or a way to keep 2 kp for a long time, we had mafia have 2 kp during N1 and N2, then 1 kp the rest of the game. N1 or N2 mafia is almost certainly gonna get at least ONE kill this way, and by the time mafia's down to 1 kp they could lean on their RB to avoid medic saves. Since mafia starts off as a big proportion of the town we're also making sure they don't get lots of kills to keep things balanced.
Assuming the town vigi misses, we get:
D1 16-4 (mislynch, scum shoots 2x town, town shoots town)
D2 12-4 (mislynch, scum shoots 2x town)
D3 9-4 (mislynch, scum shoots 1x town)
D4 7-4 (mislynch, scum shoots 1x town)
D5: 5-4 LYLO
So, there are advantages and disadvantages to this setup. First off, it gives town tons of bites at the apple, which is great. However, there aren't big rewards for town lynching scum-- scum's KP declines basically regardless. On the other hand, it's less swingy-- if town fucks up and mislynches 2 times in a row, it's still plausible town can win, scum's KP drops to 1 anyways. The game will always advance in a somewhat predictable way in this game, since KP is a function of turn rather than position
I like it because it basically requires the game be a particular length, and isn't unusually swingy or punishing.
In terms of blue roles, you'll note that town had few powerful blue roles. Town's blue setup:
Vigi (Vivax)
Jailer (Rso)
Aware Sane Cop (ExO_)
Veteran (Trfel)
The Orb
I consider 1-shot Vigi, Jailer (especially if mafia deliver KP), and Aware Sane Cop to all be premium-tier blue roles, the kind that on their own can single-handedly turn the tide of games and win for town. Veteran is a medium-tier blue role, the kind that can make a difference but relies on the individual player's ability to catch scum in-thread rather than the actual night actions to make a difference.
The Orb is basically a JOAT with a slight nerf-- it can fall into scum hands. There's a mild buff in that you can claim Orb after you've had it, whereas JOATs can't really do this without getting RBed / shot, so maybe it balances out, but I figured I'd treat the Orb basically as a JOAT, which is a premium-tier blue role when it includes a cop check or vigi shot.
So town has basically 4 premium-tier blue roles and a veteran vs 5 scum, which comes out about right.
Scum We gave a GF, a RB, and a Miller, which I think is pretty normal for a game of this size. We also gave scum a Rolecop, to give them a better chance of hunting town blue roles, since with only 1 kp they could be (and were, in fact) vulnerable to the Jailer and Veteran blocking their shots and causing deathless nights. Rolecop is a good solution because it doesn't direclty harm town, it only gives scum beter blue hunting.
Some changes I'd consider for a future 20 person game: If you have to keep the orb, that's fine, but swap out the Veteran for a 1-shot blue role like 1-shot cop, 1-shot tracker, etc. In terms of B-rank power roles, Veteran is fine, but Veteran AND Jailer seemed to be a bit too much for scum. something non-protecting might be better. Maybe split one of the premium tier roles into two smaller roles, like break the jailer into a town roleblocker and a town 1-shot doctor, or something. Either way, include more "small" roles in the OP, so that mafia has more claim options. claiming Doctor is hard, claiming 1-shot doctor is easier though, and won't disrupt people's perceptions of game balance as much.
Overall: I think this was a typical, well-balanced BH setup. some unexpected things happened, namely, scum Palmar getting shot by his teammate SL. At the start of D3 I thought town was in a really good spot, especially with rayn/ritoky as a fairly easy lynch. Toad really pulled through, though, and the sheer audacity of SL shooting Palmar kept him in the clear.
I think the Breshke and FecalFeast lynches weren't amazing, but these things happen, especially against a strong scumteam. Trfel did a good job of not getting lynched but should have tried to step into a leadership role after N4 when he took a bullet. As conftown he had a chance to make a difference.
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EPT
