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[D] Student Mafia - Page 2

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kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-12 22:37:20
February 12 2015 22:35 GMT
#21
Over the past 8 months I've sent out surveys to players playing in their first newbie game and have received about 50 responses.

I asked seven questions and I'll summarize the responses I received below. Many people chose to skip certain questions or provide generic responses that I'll try to categorize.

How did you learn about TL mafia?

About 50% of players indicated they learned about the mafia forums on the TL sidebar
About 20% from another mafia site
About 15% from friends or family members

Other responses include the "We Want You" recruitment thread and google.

Was there anything that you wish you had known prior to the game beginning that wasn't clear ahead of time?

The number one response that I get here was a better explanation of the setup. I heard this from at least seven or eight individuals. For the newbie/student setups, I think we stick to either open setups or a list of possible open setups that may be run. There seems to be too much confusion with semi-open setups, including several players who had assumed that every role was present in the game.

Another common request that came from four to five people was a better explanation of mafia terms and abbreviations that they may encounter. I know LSB put together a guide covering that at some point, so we should probably include this thread along with the other list of guides in the OP for reference.

Finally several players indicated that they did not realize how seriously people took the game. They were expecting a more casual environment. Several people also wished they had a better idea of the time requirements before the game begun. I think I'll create a poll asking how many hours people play on average and see if we can work that into the newbie/student OP to give them an idea.

Did you find the coaches helpful? Is there anything you would change about the coaching system?

The coaching feedback was almost universally positive. Players indicated that coaches were a great resource and definitely helped improve their play. People were especially vocal in applauding the individuals who took the time to offer suggestions for improvement post game.

There were a few players who felt that their coach wasn't as active as others. They indicated that they felt ignored and sometimes received feedback long after it was relevant. I think coaches should make sure to be in the habit of checking their quicktopics frequently ones the game starts. Newbie players should also be aware that they can PM their coach to grab their attention if necessary.

One suggestion that I thought was a good idea was to attempt to match coaches to players based on their timezone whenever possible. We just need to be careful not to reveal the alignment of coaches if this is the route we take. Another player thought it might be helpful if coaches were willing to discuss the game over skype.

A few preferred to learn things on their own, rather than make use of their coach, but weren't opposed to others using them.

Do you feel that the 4 game limit for newbie games is appropriate or should it be higher/lower?

About 40% felt that it was appropriate
About 35% felt that it should be higher in the 5-7 range
About 20% felt that it should be up to an individual player to determine whether or not they are a newbie
About 5% felt it should be lower as the skill gap eventually becomes too high.

The large majority felt that the current standards are good or should be slightly higher. I think we should consider bumping it up to five games if no one is strongly opposed. There were several individuals who felt that they still would benefit from a newbie environment before moving on after four games.

Approximately how much time did you spend playing per cycle (day + night)? Do you feel that the activity requirements are reasonable or too demanding?

The answers varied a lot here ranging from a couple hours to 20+ hours per cycle.

7 hours
8-12 hours
5-6 hours
4-6 hours
7-8 hours
2-9 hours
6 hours
several hours
4-5 hours
16 hours
4-5 hours
25+ plus
6-7
20 hours
2-3 hours
4-8 hours
12 hours
4-5 hours

About 40% of players felt the activity requirements were reasonable.

About 30% of players found that games were too demanding. They described the game as exhausting, time consuming, and difficult to keep up. Several suggested that they were hoping for a more casual environment. One player suggested that we should remove the requirement for a post during the night cycle, so long as they posted during the day. I agree with that one.

About 30% of players found that the minimum activity requirements were too lenient. Activity at the start of the game was a very common complaint. Players felt frustrated when the thread would die for large periods of time due to players that were completely afk. I think we should consider bumping up the 1 post requirement to 5 posts. Almost every host I know is going to warn a player with only a single one-liner for activity, so we should update this to better reflect expectations.

Do you anticipate playing in another mafia game on TL? If not, please explain.

Most people who replied indicated that they had a positive experience and would return for another game.

About five people replied that they would not be returning or were undecided due to how time consuming the games were.

A couple decided the games were too stressful and that mafia was not for them.

A few stated that they would return, but only to play normal mini games.

Are there any other criticisms or suggestions that you have that would make the newbie games more enjoyable?

There was actually a lot of feedback given about the student mafia setup, even though most of the games that I polled were strictly newbies. The response to the student games was very positive. Players stated that they enjoyed playing with more experience players to guide them. A few went as far as saying that they preferred student games over newbie games. There were a few criticisms regarding the student setup from players who were frustrated that veterans dominated discussion. They found it difficult for their opinions to get acknowledged. One player suggested that student games should be open to only players who have a history not being overly aggressive and willing to be patient with newbie players. Overall, there seemed to be more positive feedback for student games than negative.

A couple players questioned the balance of the game and suggested that they be more newbie friendly. The all-vanilla setup in particular seemed to be disliked.

One player suggested a post restriction to make the thread easier to read and reduce spamming. I swear I didn't plant this one.

Another requested that hosts always use the date and countdown tags for deadlines to reduce the confusion for players in other timezones.

Someone suggested that we should update the mafia library sticky and make it easier to navigate. I definitely think this is a good idea and it's on my to do list. If someone else wants to help out, shoot me a PM.

A couple other various suggestions included better flavor and better advertisement for the game.

I think switching over to the student format is definitely something worth trying out. The games fill up faster and seem to be a decent experience for the players involved. I'll try to collect feedback and we can reevaluate in a half a year or so.

I think we should consider working in the Newbie title to the student games. Since so many players find out about mafia via the sidebar, we should try to make it obvious that the game is open to new players. The student name probably suggests that already, but maybe something like Newbie Student Mafia V brands itself better.

Also, it might be worth discussing whether or not these newbie/student games should return to the normal hosting queue. Over the last few years since Radfield ask me to take over, I've been trying to make sure a newbie game is running at all times by PMing a list of newbie hosts and posting in the queue thread if I can't find one. I typically send out a "newbie hosting PM" for players that are hosting a newbie for the first time with a few suggestions, such as confirmation PMs before the game starts. The current host list is completely outdated so I've been struggling to find hosts lately. BH has obviously been a ton of help carrying the load and thanks to anyone else who has volunteered at any point.

It might also be nice to standardize the default Newbie OP to include a few of the things mentioned above. If anyone else has thoughts or suggestions, I'm sure we would love to hear them! ^_^
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25563 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-02-12 22:48:41
February 12 2015 22:48 GMT
#22
Thanks for gathering all this information, Kita. It looks like you put in a ton of effort and this is very valuable.

Reading through it, I feel confident that Student-style games are good, and there are a few changes I can make to make things a little easier (better links to guides, making sure all non-newbies understand to play nice, try to match coaches a bit better). I think I'll add a bit more variability to the setup, but the current setup system in use which is "select from 3 open setups, which are explicitly listed out" will be kept since it minimizes confusion.

Since everyone seems unanimous in Student Mafia being a good addition, when the time comes for Student Mafia VI, it will be titled as Newbie Student Mafia VI and I'll run my Student Games as part of the newbie queue. Student Mafia is probably one of my favorite types of games to host, so I can commit to hosting them fairly regularly, though I won't be able to host more than every other newbie queue game since I like to take breaks between hosting, play occasionally, or host non-newbie games.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
February 13 2015 12:53 GMT
#23
you should use those stats as evidence that we need to be in the sidebar of all forums because 50% is no small number
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
February 13 2015 14:33 GMT
#24
Yeah, I'm not really sure if it's something they don't want to do due to the extra clutter, if it's not important enough for to spend the time, or if they simply aren't aware of the request.

I suppose more bumps in this thread might help for whoever hasn't already?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/476384-suggestion-for-shared-community-forums-mafia

Also, sounds good BH. I can probably host them regularly as well, though I'd prefer to do every third or forth game, rather than every other. If another 1-2 people would be interested in joining the rotation that would be cool.
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
Holyflare
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United Kingdom30775 Posts
February 13 2015 14:51 GMT
#25
On February 13 2015 23:33 kitaman27 wrote:
Yeah, I'm not really sure if it's something they don't want to do due to the extra clutter, if it's not important enough for to spend the time, or if they simply aren't aware of the request.

I suppose more bumps in this thread might help for whoever hasn't already?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/476384-suggestion-for-shared-community-forums-mafia

Also, sounds good BH. I can probably host them regularly as well, though I'd prefer to do every third or forth game, rather than every other. If another 1-2 people would be interested in joining the rotation that would be cool.


http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/website-feedback/477793-adding-other-subforums-from-main-tl-site

also here
rsoultin
Profile Blog Joined November 2014
Netherlands15308 Posts
February 13 2015 18:31 GMT
#26
still need to get some cohost games under my belt...but once thats done id be happy to join the hosting rotation every 3rd or 4th game as well
"rsoultin: Mafia Suicide Inducer...you have unlimited shots because you are so god-damn relentless." - marvellosity (2015)
GlowingBear
Profile Joined May 2014
Brazil12446 Posts
February 14 2015 17:21 GMT
#27
I came here to put some thoughts
But it's carnival
So I'll put thoughts in a week.
I'm adorable.
Foolishness *
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3044 Posts
February 14 2015 23:53 GMT
#28
I'm all in favor. I'll talk with Kitaman and Blazinghand about who is going to host these and how often.

I'm also in favor of the following items:

"A couple players questioned the balance of the game and suggested that they be more newbie friendly. The all-vanilla setup in particular seemed to be disliked."

"Another requested that hosts always use the date and countdown tags for deadlines to reduce the confusion for players in other timezones."

"Someone suggested that we should update the mafia library sticky and make it easier to navigate. I definitely think this is a good idea and it's on my to do list. If someone else wants to help out, shoot me a PM."
geript: "Foolishness's cases are persuasive and reasonable but leave you feeling dirty afterwards. Kinda like a whore." ---- Manager of the TL Mafia forum, come play!
Tere
Profile Joined February 2015
United Kingdom225 Posts
February 15 2015 18:34 GMT
#29
Thoughts from a mafia player who's played a fair bit on other sites and is shopping TL Mafia to see if the community is a good fit - one of the attractive points of TL mafia is that there are games like this with formal coaching and help for new players. Student Mafia was one of the first games I read to establish if the site would be a good fit, and is a good advertisement if you want to attract folk. It's also definitely something I'd be interested in trying.

(I found TL mafia through good old Google).

Also hello!
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
February 15 2015 18:44 GMT
#30
On February 14 2015 03:31 rsoultin wrote:
still need to get some cohost games under my belt...but once thats done id be happy to join the hosting rotation every 3rd or 4th game as well


I can pitch in as well or help co-host within the rotation.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
February 15 2015 18:46 GMT
#31
On February 16 2015 03:34 Tere wrote:
Thoughts from a mafia player who's played a fair bit on other sites and is shopping TL Mafia to see if the community is a good fit - one of the attractive points of TL mafia is that there are games like this with formal coaching and help for new players. Student Mafia was one of the first games I read to establish if the site would be a good fit, and is a good advertisement if you want to attract folk. It's also definitely something I'd be interested in trying.

(I found TL mafia through good old Google).

Also hello!


Welcome to the fray, hopefully will be seeing you soon in game.

You are also more than welcome to either observe or signup as a replacement for the current Newbie game, which also features coaching, similar things for new players.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/476143-newbie-mini-mafia-lxi
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
Tere
Profile Joined February 2015
United Kingdom225 Posts
February 15 2015 18:58 GMT
#32
Cool - I saw I'd missed signups, hadn't thought about observing. I'll do that, cheers

... I just express interest in the thread, right? Or will there be rage is a non player posts in the game thread and should I PM the GMs?

(often this kind of stuff is the hardest thing to adjust to in a new site, I reckon)
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25563 Posts
February 15 2015 19:00 GMT
#33
A new thread will go up shortly that you can sign up in
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
LoneMeow
Profile Joined June 2013
Finland1396 Posts
February 16 2015 09:23 GMT
#34
On February 13 2015 23:33 kitaman27 wrote:
Also, sounds good BH. I can probably host them regularly as well, though I'd prefer to do every third or forth game, rather than every other. If another 1-2 people would be interested in joining the rotation that would be cool.


You can add me to the list of potential hosts.
Half the Sky
Profile Joined May 2014
Germany9029 Posts
February 16 2015 13:32 GMT
#35
On February 16 2015 03:58 Tere wrote:
Cool - I saw I'd missed signups, hadn't thought about observing. I'll do that, cheers

... I just express interest in the thread, right? Or will there be rage is a non player posts in the game thread and should I PM the GMs?

(often this kind of stuff is the hardest thing to adjust to in a new site, I reckon)


Regarding the Newbie game itself, you want to PM kitaman27 since the game is in progress. Only post in the thread when they are taking signups.
The phoenix must burn to emerge. - Janet Fitch
kitaman27 *
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States9245 Posts
March 06 2016 16:37 GMT
#36
It's been a year since our last survey so I'll probably send out another one to our latest batch of newbies. If anyone has any suggestions for the survey or ideas for improvement to the newbie format or recruiting new players, feel free to share.
I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I... I can't compete with that stuff.
nnn_thekushmountains
Profile Joined February 2016
1501 Posts
March 06 2016 23:09 GMT
#37
I'd like like a higher ratio of newbies to non-newbies in the student games.
Foolishness *
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3044 Posts
March 07 2016 07:07 GMT
#38
On March 07 2016 08:09 nnn_thekushmountains wrote:
I'd like like a higher ratio of newbies to non-newbies in the student games.

Might be hard to find the people to consistently get that.
geript: "Foolishness's cases are persuasive and reasonable but leave you feeling dirty afterwards. Kinda like a whore." ---- Manager of the TL Mafia forum, come play!
Kurumi
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Poland6130 Posts
March 07 2016 10:44 GMT
#39
Great job Kita!
I agree with the changes in the spirit of simplicity, reducing spam and keeping things in line of what they should do. It's amazing to see that sidebar is 50% of our recruiting power - wonder how many people we have missed during all that time without us being there!
I work alone. // Visit TL Mafia subforum!
nnn_thekushmountains
Profile Joined February 2016
1501 Posts
March 07 2016 13:17 GMT
#40
On March 07 2016 19:44 Kurumi wrote:
Great job Kita!
I agree with the changes in the spirit of simplicity, reducing spam and keeping things in line of what they should do. It's amazing to see that sidebar is 50% of our recruiting power - wonder how many people we have missed during all that time without us being there!

The side bar is huge. I had never even imagined there could be such a thing as forum mafia until I saw it in TL's sidebar, and the idea was a revelation to me.
But we aren't in the sidebars of TL's hearthstone, dota, and LoL sites. I don't know how much traffic those pages get compared to the original, but it does seem like those games are a lot more popular than Starcraft.
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