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On March 03 2015 10:07 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 10:03 geript wrote:On March 03 2015 09:59 Fecalfeast wrote:On March 03 2015 09:56 geript wrote:
It's kinda funny but I think we should try to kill the 3P on D1. That is kinda funny. Are you saying this because they add more volatility to the game and could cause a swing? If we shoot the ninja, they absorb the shot and the other ninja kills them removing them from the game.. Meeehhh I'd rather hit scum No. It's not the volatility. I'm assuming 3P won't die because of vest. That means we get to remove at least 3 KP from the game off the bat in addition to removing 2 people who don't really give a fuck about who they lynch. I've been ninja before. They tend to be pro town as surving lynches, when the only way to die is getting lynched gives you a boost to win the game because you can just outlast your opponent and win that way even if you don't figure it out. I also took 3 mafia bullets on n1 and n2 as a third party ninja by nature of being that townie. Trying to lynch third party is MASSIVELY anti-town. They're not using their shots to randomely shoot into town and unless we waste a townshot on one of them like today there's no downside to having them alive and let mafia shoot into them.
The last game I saw this was with VE and BH I think. Where VE got lynched after a missed shot I think. Like them potentially soaking up KP is possible but unlikely until D3-4 unless one of a handful of people get it. There's also the aspect that if they're a good/decent player, they can suck up roles/powers given by the spirits. Like if they get medic or vet it's pretty useless. Tracker would be useless too. Louie them remaining in the game leaves more room for mafia to hide in and has far more potential to fuck up town than help town. Assuming all 4 shots go off, odds are they only hit 1 mafia. Maybe 2 if we're really lucky. Imagine if like batsnacks, Slam, Mocsta or LS got the role though. Like shit would hit the fan real fast. Like that's the really important thing. Is it they're ever about to be lynched then they 100% will fire indescriminantly and likely hit town. This isn't even considering them presumptively killing people to get them off their back. The roles are super wifomy. Like I remember Kita shooting someone as 3P 10 minutes before a lynch to try and get multiple people killed and they could manipulate things that way too. Like they're really really bad for us unless they never shoot or only shoot perfectly. two things we can't count on.
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On March 03 2015 10:17 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 10:10 Fecalfeast wrote:
I don't think we can find the ninjas reliably and I agree with toad's evaluation this is true as well. Just think about the role for a second. The entire point of it is to find the other ninja so even if you have never played it let's just assume it's difficult because otherwise the role would be imbalanced. It takes days to figure out the other ninja and it's a lot of work. Pushing for a ninja search troop means we effectively stop scumhunting. I can't stress enough how incredibly bad the idea from geript is but at the same time not a lot of people have played ninja on here or have experiences with it so I don't want to fault anyone for it. So let's just forget that. With that being said I need some sleep, see you tomorrow.
I'm not saying ninja hunt. Im pointing out that I'm happier lynching/shooting ninja than mafia. like just kill everyone who isn't town.
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On March 03 2015 11:12 Tubesock wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 11:00 rsoultin wrote:
Eh, I dunnae. Slam's play was kinda transparent, so people not really reacting negatively to it doesn't mean much imo.
I can also see geript being unwilling to trust a shot to someone else even as town. The fact of the matter, though, is even if the plan doesn't ultimately work because we can't actually force a shot on the person with the most votes, we still get more information out of it than a clusterfuck of yammering followed by a race to be the first to get a shot out at the 24 hour mark. My point was more, Geript thought RNG was fine. Then later the vote idea came up, and now he's not at all for an RNG or any type of plan that isn't just him shooting. And then later, he thinks we should hunt ninja's? While I liked his explanation of "not really hunting ninja's but being more happy to have one die to remove 2 non towns in game" it just feels like he's pushing for more chaos.
No. I'm fine with Slam RNGing. Im not fine with an RNG shot in general. There's a big difference there.
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Like I really don't get it. Is it really that hard to read what I say? Like this is the second or third time in idk 3-4 hour that someone has completely misconstrued what I've said. Like am I writing in Chinese? Like why does no one ever fucking understand exactly what I write when its literally straight forward? Like what is it that I do or don't do that makes me not persuasive and not understNdable?
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On March 03 2015 11:27 Tubesock wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 11:23 geript wrote:On March 03 2015 11:12 Tubesock wrote:On March 03 2015 11:00 rsoultin wrote:
Eh, I dunnae. Slam's play was kinda transparent, so people not really reacting negatively to it doesn't mean much imo.
I can also see geript being unwilling to trust a shot to someone else even as town. The fact of the matter, though, is even if the plan doesn't ultimately work because we can't actually force a shot on the person with the most votes, we still get more information out of it than a clusterfuck of yammering followed by a race to be the first to get a shot out at the 24 hour mark. My point was more, Geript thought RNG was fine. Then later the vote idea came up, and now he's not at all for an RNG or any type of plan that isn't just him shooting. And then later, he thinks we should hunt ninja's? While I liked his explanation of "not really hunting ninja's but being more happy to have one die to remove 2 non towns in game" it just feels like he's pushing for more chaos. No. I'm fine with Slam RNGing. Im not fine with an RNG shot in general. There's a big difference there. Are you against my vote count idea?
I think your idea is really fucking stupid because it won't stop anyone from shooting.
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Like if anything it delays "consensus" shots while maverick shots are under more pressure to get their prefered kill. And then people will lynch or not lynch the shooter regardless because they have a townread on someone etc. Plus I doubt mafia would even try to shoot D1. Like it's really rare for mafia to go for mayor. There's even more pressure to endure for an early shot on town. So lynching into the D1 shooter for mishot is really retarded. Like trying to hold people to shooting the consensus pick just means that rogue town on town action is the most likely outcome so you're trying to lock people into what's essentially 2 bad lynches.
That doesn't even take into account the randomness of other options. Like what happens when a mayor is elected and lynches someone else? Or what happens if it's a nomination and random shooter dude isn't on the ballot. Like it's really insane play because it can affect the tenor of the game in a way that's really detrimental to town.
Like there shouldn't be random shots. People should pretend that they're trying to lynch someone. Like the people who I'm ok with shooting are the people who have tried to push the thread forward in some way. Given reads on people. Etc. like I don't care who they shoot because I'm pretty damn sure they're town (except maybe Damdred who's still reasonably towny). So the fact that people are more interested in talking about stupid peripheral shit than about shooting one of Koshi, HtS, Onegu or Rayn. Or even discussing other targets that's what alarming to me. Like any sort of pressure for these people has pretty quietly dissipated for no reason. It's kinda why I think Rayn might be town to some extent. Not just for pushing Toad a bit but that Toad doesnt seem interested in pushing a lynch.
I think Toad buddies differently as town than as scum though. I know he talked about buddying as either alignment but Note to self meta that later.
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On March 03 2015 11:36 Tubesock wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 11:30 geript wrote:
I think your idea is really fucking stupid because it won't stop anyone from shooting. But that's kinda the point of it. We talk about who town wants to shoot and everyone in thread at the 24hr mark when shooting is possible shoots for the vote leader. That way the shot is controlled by town. Deferring to you or Slam's RNG target depends on either of you being there at the deadline to shoot before someone else does. With knowing what the town has voted, then more people will hopefully all shoot at the leader and we will have 6+ people shooting the preferred target. What's your less stupid idea?
My less stupid idea is to have people get "approval" to shoot. I'd you need say 5-8 people vote for you to be the shooter. Then it's far more like a mayoral election and actually gives information about the backers.
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On March 03 2015 11:51 LightningStrike wrote:
Geript can you give me your thoughts so far on HTS and rsoultin please? I just curious on your thoughts on them that's all.
I think rsoultin is town. She's like really awful as mafia and pretty easy to read
Side note. I remember thinking that Breshke's posts really reminded me of Student v where I metad him pretty extensively. I'd have to look back at my summary but I wouldn't want him shot but I don't get feel comfortable being the shooter.
Her play is just different. Idk how to describe it but it's like less stressed or something. Like in both her mafia games I just wanted to kill her asap because she's really bad at mafia.
On HtS. She has not made my peepee hard. I will take a deeper look at her town games before I shoot her but the entrance is a big alarm and my first reads in the game I usually get away from despite them being right for really weird reasons.
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Which is the exact thing he did his last mafia game. That makes him uber likely to be mafia.
I remember you thinking HtS was town or maybe town. Mind explaining that in full detail.
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I think he might have done a similar thing in golden sun too when he rolled not town. But that game was all fucked up so I've never been sure on who started out as a faction, who got converted and who remained town. BH, slam and I all had the same role afaik though.
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Any other thoughts on posters SL?
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Any feelings you can explain in any reasonable way?
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On March 03 2015 12:47 Damdred wrote:
I'm kinda getting a scum vibe from ls, I might shoot him honestly
Meh. I haven't seen that at all. I kinda feel bad about calling him bad a bunch in palmers game.
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@Damdred. What do you think about Koshi and Rayn?
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I'm clearly not. Maybe I'll just keep calling you bad.
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How do you mean re seasons of a witch? Pretty sure I played it and I think you, Koshi and random were mafia. But that's a game I've blackballed from my memory.
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On March 03 2015 13:12 AT.Epiphany wrote:
Hi guys,
I am sorry I'm late, but the game starts at 4:30 am in my time-zone. I'm not inclined to be an early riser and in any case for professional reasons that isn't an option. My work requires me to be rested during the day.
So first off, before I post anything more substantive, I have a comment about the device.
I see a very rapid bandwagon towards pressing it, which I don't really understand very well. The device is unknown and we have no idea what it's impact on the game will be, or whom it will favour. Most of the 'reasoning' I've seen for pressing it can be summarized as 'YOLO' or 'don't be pansy' and similar emotive appeals rather than any concrete reason. One sensible voice pointed out we should guard it until we are behind or doing badly and then press, but he didn't seem to be too invested in the whole issue and didn't pursue it much. He's dead right though; the device randomizes the game, and because town is majority, that itself makes it town favoured. The way we extract an advantage from the device is to gain the ability to randomize the game when it's going badly, not by just saying 'YOLO' and pressing a button, and I'm mildly suspicious of those who started this "PRESS" bandwagon. I really can't overstate the importance of this, and I really want a discussion of this issue and/or responses to it. I'm not attempting to deflect discussion away from the shot, and I'll comment on that in a bit, but this is an important issue and that's why I've dedicated a separate post to it. There is literally no reason not to vote GUARD on the device and I want those who are currently voting PRESS to explain their logic if any.
Holy shitpants of saying nothing. This guys is another good kill.
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On March 03 2015 13:31 AT.Epiphany wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 13:26 geript wrote:On March 03 2015 13:12 AT.Epiphany wrote:
Hi guys,
I am sorry I'm late, but the game starts at 4:30 am in my time-zone. I'm not inclined to be an early riser and in any case for professional reasons that isn't an option. My work requires me to be rested during the day.
So first off, before I post anything more substantive, I have a comment about the device.
I see a very rapid bandwagon towards pressing it, which I don't really understand very well. The device is unknown and we have no idea what it's impact on the game will be, or whom it will favour. Most of the 'reasoning' I've seen for pressing it can be summarized as 'YOLO' or 'don't be pansy' and similar emotive appeals rather than any concrete reason. One sensible voice pointed out we should guard it until we are behind or doing badly and then press, but he didn't seem to be too invested in the whole issue and didn't pursue it much. He's dead right though; the device randomizes the game, and because town is majority, that itself makes it town favoured. The way we extract an advantage from the device is to gain the ability to randomize the game when it's going badly, not by just saying 'YOLO' and pressing a button, and I'm mildly suspicious of those who started this "PRESS" bandwagon. I really can't overstate the importance of this, and I really want a discussion of this issue and/or responses to it. I'm not attempting to deflect discussion away from the shot, and I'll comment on that in a bit, but this is an important issue and that's why I've dedicated a separate post to it. There is literally no reason not to vote GUARD on the device and I want those who are currently voting PRESS to explain their logic if any. Holy shitpants of saying nothing. This guys is another good kill. Do you actually care to respond? I said a lot of valuable stuff and your attempt to dis it just portrays you as scum. Respond if you have any meaningful response? Also, if you could bother to read, I said I am separately commenting on the shot.
Sure, you've talked about nothing of any sort of consequence in like the least meaningful way possible. Like there's nothing of any worth talking about there. We have ~18 hours until someone is going to get shot and you're worried about talking about something that nobody knows what the fuck it does. I will be happy to shoot you if this continues.
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Yay. It's Kita!!! Right as I was going to go to bed.
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On March 03 2015 13:39 Damdred wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2015 13:01 rsoultin wrote:
lol ls seems honest enough this game to me; he really was convinced breshke was scum right after breshke rolled scum
what makes you think he's scum, Damdred? Usually ls would meta some town reads out, he's really familiar with Hts etc., bit is wishy washy and wants others to do some work. Gave me a bad feeling
I've seen similar from him as town. But I get what you mean.
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EPT
