Because I can't seem to let myself completely give up.
This is Silverarte's first actual post. And it is terrible. It shows no thinking, just recounting what has happened.
I'm not going to quote all of the activity excuses. But at this point in the game, you can't get by on just activity excuses. Of course that doesn't make Silverarte scum, though. Look at the number of activity excuses. Instead of doing all that, she could have read another filter or something. Keep this in mind when I get to how few reads she has made. She's just more focused on discussion than scumhunting.
On February 16 2015 22:39 Silverarte wrote:
@zlefin I appreciate the concern about activity and all that, but remember. I live in the US and I posted my schedule up. On Saturdays, I work for ten hours then went out for Valentines out here. While I appreciate activity might signify something, at the same time, understanding for the holiday I feel should be in there somewhere too.
Now, that said and behind us, my question for you is this. The scumread list you gave, can I ask what gives you the thoughts that Jarjar and Hier are on the lynch list. Also, if I'm reading the way you have that list right, Rsoultin is on the lynch list too, is that correct? (It's the points I'm trying to sort out). Look at this, and look at zlefin's filter. Everything referring to Silverarte is two one-liners. This is EXTREMELY defensive, and she has already posted her schedule and other excuses for being away. Not necessary at all.
On February 16 2015 22:39 Silverarte wrote:@hier Show nested quote +On February 16 2015 15:17 Hier wrote:On February 16 2015 15:10 rsoultin wrote:On February 16 2015 14:52 rsoultin wrote:On February 16 2015 14:47 Hier wrote:On February 16 2015 12:51 rsoultin wrote:On February 16 2015 07:08 Hier wrote:
rsoultin:
In 3 separate posts you have described your reads to be null towards people that have posted, and despite you not liking the Bridges method, which is fine, said that it is something a town player may suggest thinking it’s good.
Later, after someone mentioned they weren't a fan of my model, you've gone to suggest that I've done nothing to show that I care about finding scum,
all the while you proclaim your reads are null and just ask what other players’ reads are. That is the way mafia players probe the scene to start a bandwagon.
Why else, out of the blue, without any further analysis, would you vote me to be lynched with the phrase “Tell me why I’m wrong, or get onboard.”? No, it is your job to tell everyone the reasons behind your vote, not to tell everyone to get onboard. Okay, in the interest of fairness, if you genuinely believe each of these claims, I can understand your scumread. So I'm going to ask you to actually quote the posts I made that led you to the three bolded conclusions. Preferably in context, because if you misrepresent me I do very much have a tendency to get tunneled xP Once you've done so, I'll answer the last bit. Alright. You went back to my original accusation, to which you have already responded, and are now demanding further explanation when, quite literally, nobody else is asking for it. People have already read my statement and have made up their minds, whatever those may be. You are creating artificial content by searching for an excuse to re-state your innocence, and projecting the appearance of scum hunting at the same time. That would create drivel. You have not been the centre of discussion for several pages, and nobody has been tunnelling you, much less me. Right now it looks like the one doing the tunnelling is you. Look, for now my vote stays where it is. If you post something that changes my mind or a more obvious scum target comes up I promise I will be the first one to let you know. For now let me focus on somebody else, instead of going through your filter again. On February 16 2015 13:31 jarjarbinks wrote:On February 16 2015 07:58 rsoultin wrote:On February 16 2015 07:50 Hier wrote:
Trfel:
It only takes one other player to declare his or her support for the model to get people to support its use. I know how Bridges works and how to use it to get a town victory. I will always abide by its rules, but if you later decide it's not worth it by all means abandon it.
Didn't you say that you'd just made this method up? And again, you're focusing on the model and not what I'm asking you for. @Trfel - I am not in favor of Bridges. Clearly. Even if Hier would be the next "auto-lynch" and I'd laugh my ass off if he flips scum, caught in his own mechanism  Hier, I know a lot of people have been asking you questions. Can you answer this one? Should be easy enough? I've already answered this, and my answer isn't changing. Yes, as the game began. As of right now I do not think Trfel or jarjarbinks are scum, and thus have no intention of voting for them. I don't know if this is just because you're new, but me bringing up your case on me and giving you the opportunity to justify it...how does that come from a scum perspective? As you said, no one seems to really be buying your case, so why would I need to further establish my innocence? For the record, I'd still like this answered, Hier. From a more veteran player I'd be calling to lynch you with fire for most of your posts xP but I recognize that this is a newbie game and you might actually believe what you're saying. I just don't know how far my lexicon can take me reiterating my own accusations, and I don't really see the point when you'll just rebuke it my saying I misinterpreted your quotes, thus creating a nucleus for a completely unnecessary discussion. But if you really really really want I'll do so in the morning. It's getting late here too, and tomorrow is a holiday here, so I'll have time. I appreciate frustration here, but it still seems like pulling teeth to get reads and the why from you. As nothing has been put up to change my mind and it's still a fight with getting your reads and such? Nothing personal but my vote is on you. ##Vote: Hier And how hard is it to get reads from Silverarte? So far we have a scumread on Hier for extremely boring reasoning, and a bunch of nulls.
On February 17 2015 13:27 Silverarte wrote:
Hmm, ok. So I'm going to start posting this stuff up as I get my thoughts in order (and hopefully without random copy/paste cut offs!)
Let's see. I'll post up thoughts on Tere first! (Then Tere, I'll give you my thoughts for everyone since I did see you asked for that as well as Trfel. Also, by the way? HILARIOUS gifs! Loved coming back to those.)
ALright, so back to the read on Tere here.
-Jump on the bandwagon with Hier. Later, seems relatively unaffected considering all the effort placed here. Note, I'm not going to stare sideways too much for that one with Hier. That was a lynch gone bad, or so it felt to me with the way Hier was reacting.
-Scumread list definitely is skewed to the most experienced players at the top (I did peek at your post Trfel before popping this up - darn you for being faster than me this round!), but I feel Zlefin may not be a bad read where she placed him. I think at this point, I'd really like to see what Tere has to say here.
-I think my biggest issue where Tere is, really is in the communication with Hier, the scum reading and then yes, the counter wagon that was met with little to no attempts. But, this could be attributed to tunneling. I just think a lot of effort went into this here, with little attempts to other things she said. It does come off as contradicting itself.
I agree with suspicion here, but I'm not sure Tere is an immediate lynch. Like I said, I'd really like to see what Tere has to say and go from there. I'm suspicious, but I some of the others catch my eye a bit more. I'm not all that unconvinced that you are on the wrong track, Trfel. This analysis is weak, and much of it is just sheeping me. You can say that it hints of scumhunting, but looking at Silverarte's filter from last game, I felt that it was better. All in all, this is a nice post to see, but not unexpected from scum, either. Look at the bottom paragraph, it's almost as if she is distancing herself from the read, in addition to sheeping it.
This read on zlefin is extremely weak. I demonstrated how easy it is to look through zlefin's filter and see how that corresponds to his number system. Apparently Silverarte could type up all of this, but not figure out that zlefin's filter and his point system were in fact directly related.
On February 18 2015 04:02 Silverarte wrote:
Woo! Back! How's it going so far?
Also, so far, what is everyone's top? Rather than two bullets, how about one? She comes back RIGHT AFTER I VOTE HER.
On February 19 2015 06:53 Silverarte wrote:Ok, so I backtracked and caught up and it looks like the most pressing thing right now is to clear my name. So if I'm missing questions, please feel free to point them out and I'll get right on that. Now first off, I see I wasn't clear about the two bullet question I had. I meant for that to be directed at Tere, who at the time, was not giving us an answer for anything when I posted that. My main hope had been that perhaps I'd be able to one answer from her if not the two. I was obviously not clear and hadn't noticed that at the time. Now, as for the cases on Tere and Zlefin: -You've stated it yourself Trfel. This is a newbie game. For all Tere has mountains of experience elsewhere, Zlefin does not and Tere still had more to come. Moreso, it was N1 with all of us metaphorically twiddling our thumbs to wait for the results. We had, as of then, over two more days to figure out who our next lynch was be. With D2 around the corner, my thought was we had time to figure out just what Tere was doing and where Zlefin was going to pop up as. (Speaking of, good job Zle. You stepped up the game on those explanations when you're assigning points). Now, I agreed with your case. I could have copy/pasted it over or pull over additional information (and am more than happy to break it down), but as I said, we had more time to figure it out. -I have asked a couple times if anyone's had questions for me. While people have interacted with me, I've not seen many questions until Tere joined us and did that odd play with the bullets. On that note, if anyone has other questions for me now, please feel free to ask. -If we review where my votes have been. Tere pointed out the way things worked out with Hier and I've explained my thought processes with my previous scum reads. That said, I felt I've been consistent with my reads. Is this enough to save me this round? Not sure! I'll just have to keep playing and prove I'm town.  (Also, sidenote. Tere? You so made me want to go watch the Beetlejuice movie now.) Boring post, and then she asks if it's enough to save her. She seems to be trying to slide by and do the absolute minimum.
(The following quote is in spoiler because it is darn long, not because it is not important. It is the best part of Silverarte's filter, and thus must be considered)
+ Show Spoiler +On February 19 2015 10:50 Silverarte wrote:Challenge accepted Tere! =D (Also..nothing personal! You've been great to read. Also, sweet dreams when you get there) ------------------------------ Let's see. A majority of Tere's posts are actually centered around one liner posts with larger ones poking in here or there. Now, she flips from town to scum, town to scum. Now, I'm going through posts bit by bit here. But as a history: - Townie, fun, light hearted beginnings. -Centers in on Hiel. -Backs off after lynch is made -Goes into the Two-Shot question, with a general refusal to answer it for herself. -Answers -Active day -Positive reads of who she's now reading as scum -reads scum, switches scum reads again -Gets angry with said scum (where she's been very level for the majority of her game) -Comes back and withholds opinions, but hints at them -Later pops them up -Still in scum fight with The Shining --General reads for scum: Show nested quote +On February 17 2015 01:29 Tere wrote:
I think based on all of that,
Known town or towny
Tere
Trfel
rsoultin
Don't lynch today
The Shining
ElyAs
Silverarte
jarjarbinks
Lynchpool
zlefin
Hier to (after the last will and testament which was not originally going to be put up until everyone else answered the question. The following is an analysis written right after that) Show nested quote +On February 19 2015 00:20 Tere wrote:Right, next, to answer the WTF you were doing last night Tere questions: First off, I am not claiming anything right now, and don't intend to as yet, as claiming my role would be detrimental to town. If that generates into a bunch of meaningless WIFOM that kills the thread and nothing will get done until you stop yelling at me I will, but I can assure you that outing my role won't be town helpful and I won't do that unless forced to. Important point repeated again: IF ANYONE IS THINKING OF CLAIMING BASED ON WHAT I AM DOING PLEASE DON'T. Claim for your own reasons, for sure, but don't claim because of my activities.I will, however, answer the question on why I mixed things up in nightchat and poked everyone for their two scumreads. 1. The easy bit first. Hi, I'm Tere. My meta this game is super aggro town, if you don't believe me now, you will on my flip. Scum are susceptible to WIFOM too. I love annoying scum. Hi scum! 2. I've been accused of not scumhunting. Well, for me this is some scumhunting activity. Scum really don't like to be tied down to decisive positions, in general. I'm almost less bothered by the actual answer than the attitude towards giving an answer. To me a major town tell is a relaxed position and a willingness to give reads and be flexible about them. There's a freedom and spontaneity to playing town and giving opinions that isn't there with scum, as the wincon is so different. Town can play offensive, scum, of necessity, need to have a defensive element to them. What I'm looking for here is a relaxed approach to giving opinions. Scum have to watch being caught out. Town don't need to do that. (n.b. if anyone who is town lynches me based on the terribad reason that Hier placed a vote on me, I am going to laugh at you in post game. Dead town don't gain powers of oracle infallibility, and Hier's proven misread on rsoultin should demonstrate that). So, what did I find out, and what do I think about it? (Here's where my play starts, with my current lynchpool at the time. I plop it in and head to bed, more or less: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/476143-newbie-mini-mafia-lxi?page=29#577. I push it again when I get up here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/476143-newbie-mini-mafia-lxi?page=32#623)zlefin: Tere and Jarjar http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/476143-newbie-mini-mafia-lxi?page=32#628I really like this response, it comes very quickly, only 20 mins after I poke him directly seeing him in thread, and feels very unforced. Town points to zlefin here. His poking at me about WTF I am doing feels OK too: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/476143-newbie-mini-mafia-lxi?page=32#637silverarte: Tere and zlefin. Silver feels relaxed in the way she produces these options, and posts a decent rebuttal of why she doesn't want to be asked. It doesn't feel defensive or forced. This looks OK here. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/476143-newbie-mini-mafia-lxi?page=33#649 I like her asking why not one bullet a bit less, as the results show, I have good reasons for asking for two reads apart from there being two scum less, and just one read wouldn't have given me anywhere as near as much information. But it's not enough for me to see that as a scumtell. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/476143-newbie-mini-mafia-lxi?page=36#715Trfel: No answer - Trfel starts out by expressing confusion at WTF I am doing and why I hadn't done it myself here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/476143-newbie-mini-mafia-lxi?page=31#614 (as an aside, please don't scumread me for being asleep fairly soon after day and night ends that end at midnight my time, that would be lovely). He then posts his discomfort and thinks I am fishing in order that I can place the kills (because he's seen Artanis do this as mafia) here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/476143-newbie-mini-mafia-lxi?page=33#642. He scumreads me a little more strongly for this here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/476143-newbie-mini-mafia-lxi?page=33#648. There's some form of impenetrable chat with rsoultin about a point on an observation board somewhere, which Trfel will need to explain if he's convinced that whatever is on that board is relevant, but after further thought he seems to discount it. His response to me saying he really doesn't want to play looks OK, though, calm, measured - he's not lost down a rabbit hole somewhere. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/476143-newbie-mini-mafia-lxi?page=35#687 He never answers but hislast will and testament puts lynchpool at Tere, ElyAs, Silverarte (maybe jarjar) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/476143-newbie-mini-mafia-lxi?page=38#749 On the face of it the refusal looks bad but I think the way he handles it looks OK. He's clearly worrying about some game I have no meta for so meh. I can't see why it would be so OMG critical to get two names out for scum and certainly I wouldn't need to do so to place a NK. It's not inherently scummy, he's just got his knickers in a twist about something. rsoultin: No answer - she grasps what I am doing I think, tells me to put my big girl pants on I really liked the relaxed tone from her, and lo, she flips town as the nightkill. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/476143-newbie-mini-mafia-lxi?page=34#661 Also, sod off with the deliberately condescending, lady N.B. rsoultin puts ElyAs as her top scumread in her farewell post and I for one, would be happy to oblige her with that ElyAs: Tere and zlefin http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/476143-newbie-mini-mafia-lxi?page=36#711 . I don't really like this as much - he's deliberately distancing himself while giving the reads and does so further when I point out immediately after that I was voting and posting at basically the same point as him on the bandwagon. Tere: The Shining and ElyAs. I get bored with waiting on The Shining and post my WOT of reads here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/476143-newbie-mini-mafia-lxi?page=37#723The Shining: Tere and ElyAs. Comes straight in with an attack on me and flat out refuses to divulge top two scumreads until after EON. Not massively friendly. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/476143-newbie-mini-mafia-lxi?page=37#725. He eventually gives two picks after rsoultin probes him for it here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/476143-newbie-mini-mafia-lxi?page=37#736. I have to say I really don't like his reentry into the thread, his general defensiveness, his attacks on Trfel in particular. I think rsoultin has a genuine point about him Beetlejuicing and anyone who has also played scum with him before should consider her POV. No likey. Jarjarbinks: ElyAs and Tere: Jarjar hops on and quite quickly gives a promise he'd get to the shot question before EON, that looks very unforced and relaxed to me. He writes a very brief shot confirm just before EON http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/476143-newbie-mini-mafia-lxi?page=38#747. He posts thoughts about ElyAs after daybreak here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/476143-newbie-mini-mafia-lxi?page=38#759 and about me here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/476143-newbie-mini-mafia-lxi?page=39#771 . The timing of this stuff looks fine and the cases look relaxed. Town points from me, I also liked his presence in the thread in general after daybreak. Conclusion as to scumteam? Well, its pretty obvious to me - The Shining and ElyAs look the worst coming out of all of that. Since that also meshes with what I've felt from other parts of their filter I am comfortable with that. Other conclusion? Well, it's pretty obvious that everybody finds me scummy. I find this laughable, as as far as I am concerned I am happily playing aggro town, and the fact that everybody finds me scummy should be a decent clue that perhaps I am not. However, it is fine. I have a cunning plan for this. More shortly. If this paragraph is too long to revist, the scumteam is: The Shining and ElyAs. Inbetween this long awaited series of analysis and during it, reads on me are generally pleasant and wonderful. She's also prolific with her calls on "Don't judge me for what my actions are". Now, if we aren't judging based on actions and votes, what do we judge on? Now, her filter was rather prolific today which is great! Except...all of a sudden, there is a switch in tone on those votes. We go from hunting down other targets, to hunting down me based on Trfel's analysis. Rather than going with your initial votes and feels, you switched and trailed on with Trfel (which I was accused of doing) In fact, it's: Show nested quote +On February 19 2015 07:07 Tere wrote:On February 19 2015 07:02 Tere wrote:On February 19 2015 07:00 Silverarte wrote:On February 19 2015 06:58 Tere wrote:
Curent absentees from discussion. Silverarte (eep, BBL doesn't count as a prod dodge), Jarjarbinks, The Shining.
I think scum is in two out of three of those right now. Discuss. You are wanting to discuss this with me? Or exempting me, but with everyone else? (Also...BBL?) Be Back Later. As in, you've been gone over an hour. Get on with it. You are moving down my lynch pile. In fairness, when I posted this, I hadn't, for whatever reason had notification of Silverarte's longer post beforehand. I will go read that. Then the contribution is noted, and left alone. Why so hesitant to share thoughts? And why so insistant that we base our thoughts in one direction when according to you on several occasions, you admited you base things on tone. This is a fantastic tool, but it's an imperfect science and one we all pointed out to several of the others who joined us (Zlefin, etc). You, yourself have been very pleasant and forward, but very much pushing for others thoughts and ideas while holding back your own. I don't feel this is reaching, since this isn't the first time this has happened this game. Then there was the debate with Shining, who I believe summed it all up quite well. Show nested quote +On February 19 2015 07:51 The Shining wrote:
And you reacting at all is funny. A townie would've said "well screw it clear scum" and moved on after lynching me, instead of being willing to go head to head with me in the thread and fill it up with tit for tat. The tone changed afterwards, but your entire play up until this point has been even playful and cheerful. Here, this entire instance felt (to use a tone read here in addition to everything else I've tossed up), looks pretty bad. Especially with the consistent hold back on answers such as the question Shining gave you, your thoughts with the bullets when many were requesting it and of course, the hinting that there'd be more with other things later. I'm not certain if my vote is on you or not yet, (since we have til tomorrow) but of anyone, it's pretty strongly here and most likely where my vote will lie in the morning. As far as I understood, N2, you are able to take your time and consider before coming down hard on someone or something. (...several hours later....sheesh me. Trfel, I think I take that long time spent posting award. Or at least get one next to yours.)
This is her one good post. Still, much of it is just a summary of what Tere has done this game.
It's a boring filter. Nothing memorable other than this one post. Reads are rare, and original reads are next to nonexistent. The amount of suspicion on her is directly related to how much she posts and how long her posts are.
Silverarte is scum.
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EPT
