EPTAnd give your own reads, cause you know how this confirmation bias stuff works, and you're feeding into it right now.
Zlefin...let's try something, okay? Would you like to play a game with me? Lol, JJB will probably recognize this game.
Newbie Mini Mafia LXI - Page 34
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
And give your own reads, cause you know how this confirmation bias stuff works, and you're feeding into it right now. Zlefin...let's try something, okay? Would you like to play a game with me? Lol, JJB will probably recognize this game. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On February 18 2015 00:20 rsoultin wrote: Wait, I think I'm missing something here. Can you let me join the in-crowd?Firstly, if you're hinting at what I believe you're hinting at, Tere, use your best judgment and your coach. You don't need everyone else's reads to do it. Put on those big girl pants xP Do you think that Tere is suggesting that everyone is scumreading zlefin? Or what? | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On February 18 2015 00:23 Trfel wrote: Wait, I think I'm missing something here. Can you let me join the in-crowd? Do you think that Tere is suggesting that everyone is scumreading zlefin? Or what? Not the time truffle. I'll let you in later, I promise ^^ | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On February 18 2015 00:24 rsoultin wrote: I thought we were friends.....Not the time truffle. I'll let you in later, I promise ^^ Time to take a break from zlefin's filter and attempt to figure this out. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On February 18 2015 00:27 Trfel wrote: I thought we were friends..... Time to take a break from zlefin's filter and attempt to figure this out. Lol we're absolutely friends. You're a smart guy. I'm sure you'll figure it out ^^ | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On February 18 2015 00:31 rsoultin wrote: Oh. I see what you are saying now.Lol we're absolutely friends. You're a smart guy. I'm sure you'll figure it out ^^ I don't like where this is going at all. Rsoultin, you didn't happen to be in the Hammertime obs chat, did you? | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On February 18 2015 00:33 Trfel wrote: Oh. I see what you are saying now. I don't like where this is going at all. Rsoultin, you didn't happen to be in the Hammertime obs chat, did you? Ummm, I did but I stopped following it after about the first day. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On February 18 2015 00:35 rsoultin wrote: Do you mind reading the obs QT again? There's a certain part of it that I believe is somewhat applicable here. My point is, you're walking on really dangerous ground, and tread carefully. I'm worried that I'm not going to be here tomorrow, so I'm trying to say all that I can now.....Ummm, I did but I stopped following it after about the first day. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On February 18 2015 00:37 Trfel wrote: Eh, on second thought, never mind. I'm not thinking clearly.Do you mind reading the obs QT again? There's a certain part of it that I believe is somewhat applicable here. My point is, you're walking on really dangerous ground, and tread carefully. I'm worried that I'm not going to be here tomorrow, so I'm trying to say all that I can now..... | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
I blame you for my own blunders. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On February 18 2015 00:37 Trfel wrote: Do you mind reading the obs QT again? There's a certain part of it that I believe is somewhat applicable here. My point is, you're walking on really dangerous ground, and tread carefully. I'm worried that I'm not going to be here tomorrow, so I'm trying to say all that I can now..... Lol, I gotcha, and no worries. This was always approached with a grain of salt, and I actually think it counts against her more than for her. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On February 18 2015 00:41 Trfel wrote: Oh rsoultin, why do you do this to me......... (expresses general frustrations) I blame you for my own blunders. ROFL! Aww...that's almost a compliment kinda maybe? xP | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
See what I was getting at earlier? It's really, really hard for me to trust others XD | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
I want to play a game with zlefin ;o; I think the problem with his point system/reads may just be that he's having trouble articulating things in his first game. Especially when things are gut/tone reads it can be hard to put it into words. I completely sympathize with him if that's the case. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
On February 18 2015 00:50 rsoultin wrote: I have a big post on zlefin coming up in the near future. (anyone who knows me well should know that this probably means in like 5 hours)Well, let's ignore it for the time being. I want to play a game with zlefin ;o; I think the problem with his point system/reads may just be that he's having trouble articulating things in his first game. Especially when things are gut/tone reads it can be hard to put it into words. I completely sympathize with him if that's the case. I sympathize with him a ton, too. While his play definitely seems scummy at first, it could also just be a town player trying to figure out how to play the game (not to be insulting, I'm still trying to figure out how to play the game, too). | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
On February 18 2015 00:20 rsoultin wrote: Firstly, if you're hinting at what I believe you're hinting at, Tere, use your best judgment and your coach. You don't need everyone else's reads to do it. Put on those big girl pants xP And give your own reads, cause you know how this confirmation bias stuff works, and you're feeding into it right now. Zlefin...let's try something, okay? Would you like to play a game with me? Lol, JJB will probably recognize this game. I find your tone odd and condescending. We're already playing a game, it's called mafia. If you want to say something, say it. | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
Anyway, my updated and long overdue read on zlefin. On February 15 2015 22:58 zlefin wrote: I maintain that this post seems townie to me. What I see here is pure honesty. Obviously, having unexplained reads is bad, so zlefin wouldn't want to admit this. A mafia!zlefin might have even preferred to make up reasons than to admit that he has no really explainable reasons. Of course, when unexplained reads are used again and again, that could be a problem.I can't explain my reads well, they're only quite mild reads at this point. For Trfel, it's partly a tonal read, and partly that he's encouraging discussion and trying to get things going. So he's either town, or a well-played (and hence dangerous) scum. For jarjar, it's just an impression, I can't really explain why. On February 16 2015 02:56 zlefin wrote: This was one of the first things that people commented on for zlefin being scum. I disagree that this is scummy. He is providing two townreads with some reasoning. As for the last three sentences of the post, he's not really casting doubt on his reads, he is just being a cautious and paranoid townie. Again, this feels more like town than scum.yeah, I've seen Princess Bride. I'm inclined to take the prior page of discussion as minor evidence of Hier and Rsoultin being town. For Hier, it seems like too complicated a plan for a scum to want to put forth. for rsoultin he was putting forth good reasons for town to dislike the plan with good analysis. Or it could be a plot by the two of them (both being scum) to make themselves both look like town through such an exchange. So I want to make a note of possible link between the two. I think this very unlikely though. On February 16 2015 21:14 zlefin wrote: This is the first post where zlefin shows his method of keeping a tally and using it to judge people's alignments. At this point, we can figure out (presumably) why he gave everyone the number he gave them.Ok, I've reviewed the thread to date, and here's the score sheet I keep with my running tally estimates on town/scumminess, positive numbers are town, negative numbers are scum; the denominator represents the number of total read points for that person. i.e. each time I get a feel, I add or subtract one from the ongoing tally. Trfel 1/1 Shining rsoultin 1/1 elyas jarjar -2/2 mimeux hier 0/2 silver with mimeux out, and his replacement not yet in, I don't expect to get enough information on the replacement to have a read on them by voting time. I remain concerned about silver having no posts on the first real life day, and overall activity level. Now I gotta go back, find jarjars question to answer it, and then maybe review the people I don't have any read on to see if I can find something. my current lynch candidates are jarjar, hier, silver, trfel. The reason for trfel is that I feel trfel is a high information lynch. If he's scum, he's a skilled scum; and there's a lot of discussion between trfel and others, if I could go back through those discussions with the lynch knowledge of his alignment, I think that would provide a lot of other leads one way or the other. I think it would provide more information than anyone else's lynch. I (Trfel) recieved 1/1 for encouraging discussion. Rsoultin received 1/1 for analysis on Hier's bridges plan. Jarjarbinks received -2/2 for a bad impression and a statement zlefin thought was scummy. Hier received 0/2 for proposing his Bridges plan and making a post with lots of fancy words but little actual substance. Zlefin's list corresponds precisely with his filter to this point. Thus, I feel that it is safe to assume that the future updates to his list are also based on reads he actually made, and he isn't changing the numbers randomly. There really is no good reason to doubt this. Zlefin also advocates lynching me (Trfel) because it would give him a lot of information. This is a silly idea, and would never actually happen. That aside, it doesn't strike me as a scummy thing to say. Since I have zero chance of being lynched for this reason, it seems strange that mafia!zlefin would suggest this as a way to get town!Trfel lynched. Given how ridiculous that is, I can accept the alternate explanation that he really felt that knowing my alignment would help him make a lot of reads. For those of you who still doubt this, remember that attacking someone with a large thread presence generally isn't something that mafia wants to do. Thus, there is very little, if any, reason for this to be mafia motivated. Now, for zlefin's vote on Hier. I see where zlefin is asking town what he should do with his vote, but if you read the reasoning, it seems like he is actually thinking about the possibilities. While it is true that he is asking town what his end result should be, he has provided thoughts and set the framework. He has also made it clear that he isn't just going to do what everyone else tells him to do, but he wants other people's thoughts to take into consideration. The post I refer to is here. As for disliking changing votes, while sometimes considered poor play, this isn't scummy. Correctly using one's vote is rather difficult, and in my current play, I basically only vote late in the day for the person I want lynched, and then maybe change it at the last minute if town is switching (probably not). It's suboptimal, but not an indication of being scum. What I see here is more of a new, inexperienced townie who is extremely cautious, to the point where it hurts his play. While looking at his actions and reads alone makes him look extremely scummy, I get the impression from his tone and his reasoning that it isn't mafia-motivated. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
On February 18 2015 01:02 zlefin wrote: I find your tone odd and condescending. We're already playing a game, it's called mafia. If you want to say something, say it. I was deliberately being condescending toward Tere, so that's fair xP This game is actually meant to help you (and us) figure out where your head is at. I'd ask you to give certain types of adjectives for particular players. The point is just to respond quickly without thinking. Are you up to it? (You don't have to and I won't scumread you for it if you don't want to, but I do think it'll help.) | ||
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Trfel
7015 Posts
I'm not saying that he is town. I'm saying that I don't yet see much reason to call him scum. I'm sure that some people remember what I just said to Tere a few pages ago, that there is almost always a town explanation for someone's behavior, but that doesn't make them town. And what I have done is provided a town explanation for zlefin's behavior. My point is, weigh the validity of the initial points against the validity of the explanation. And in this case, I find the explanation to be reasonable enough that I don't want to lynch zlefin at this time. That said, it is still very important to watch zlefin and follow his reads. If he shows actual scumhunting and critical thinking, he is probably fine. If he fails to do this, maybe he should be considered for the lynch. | ||
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rsoultin
Netherlands15308 Posts
Nah, Truffle, it was only his later play that was bugging me, anyway. His point system reminds me of my brother's lol. Speaking of paranoia...JJB isn't getting scumread this game. Seems like a dumb reason to find him scummy, but usually everyone is like JJB, scummiest of scum! Am I nuts? | ||
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