[M][N]Hammertime Mafia

On January 22 2015 19:59 Eden1892 wrote:


:hype:

On January 26 2015 23:55 Half the Sky wrote:
Palmar is another player who I've not played with. All of a single post. I'm surprised GB isn't giving the same read on him as he is Robik.

I was pretty sure town Palmar is someone who tries to solve the game. Or does he throw sarcastic remarks D1 as well?

On January 26 2015 21:46 GlowingBear wrote:
Palmar
Make me believe you're town

Giev me reeds.

On January 27 2015 01:24 VisceraEyes wrote:

the fuck are you doing?

On January 27 2015 01:30 VisceraEyes wrote:
Doing you are fuck the?

I don't know what that means.

##Unvote
##Vote: Palmar

Palmar's first day is his strongest, and he's not trying to get reads on anyone. He claims to not be reading the thread, and he's not trying to get anyone lynched.

GB's response to HTS is at least quasi-reasonable, Palmar is being maliciously bad.

On January 27 2015 01:32 VisceraEyes wrote:

The "I'm playing too scummy to be scum" means literally less than nothing when you point it out yourself Palmar.

On January 27 2015 01:35 VisceraEyes wrote:

I'll lynch you, you know. If you're town you know I'm bad enough.

On January 27 2015 01:37 VisceraEyes wrote:
Like Palmar is talking to me as if he knows I'm town. If no one else is noticing this, there isn't much else I can do.

On January 27 2015 01:40 Half the Sky wrote:
I'd reeeeaaaalllllllly like to see more from Palmar. I observed Metal Mini. And I recall him being quite vocal D1...

*glares at Palmar*

(responding to GB next...)

On January 27 2015 01:42 VisceraEyes wrote:

Maybe help me out a bit by not trolling if you're town?

Like, I'm not sure when playing mafia like a real person and not a troll became boring for you, but if you're town this is really aggravating for me.

On January 27 2015 01:51 VisceraEyes wrote:
Like Toad says he wants to lynch Palmar and then defends Palmar with nonsense when I vote for him.

I miss the good ol' days when Toad bussed the fuck out of his patners -.-

On January 27 2015 01:55 IAmRobik wrote:

If you're town this game, kindly see that you don't fucking /in any game that i ever play in moving forward. I'm tired of your bullshit. you think I'm mafia every fucking game. You're wrong and annoying and you don't deserve to ever be in a fucking game with me.

From this point on, I will not be reading or responding to any fucking post you make [redacted what i wrote because i don't want to be banned]

On January 27 2015 01:56 VisceraEyes wrote:

It says I'm annoyed that Toad said he wants to lynch you and then defends you, and I expressed that annoyance by drawing an illusory connection between the two of you out of spite.

On January 27 2015 01:59 VisceraEyes wrote:

No one does. What's worse is that no one quite knows how it will manifest itself. Count yourself lucky that you can't hear his voice in his rage.

On January 27 2015 01:59 VisceraEyes wrote:

Because I think you're mafia.

On January 27 2015 02:01 Half the Sky wrote:


Making a case on yourself D1 is not the point, the point is based on the little I know of you I'd expect you to be contributing more one way or another. Based on that, a slight scumread until I see more from you.

I know absolutely zero on Robik, zero on VE, zero on Onegu, so I have to take them completely at face value.

On January 27 2015 02:01 VisceraEyes wrote:

................I'm REALLLY close to convincing myself Palmar. Don't. Test. Me.

On January 27 2015 02:08 Half the Sky wrote:


Are you trying to tell me that you are unreadable?

On January 27 2015 02:14 Half the Sky wrote:


Reliable results on you or any of my own reads on anyone here?

I disregard meta on people I've not played with. You know I'm relatively new here. What do you think I should be doing?

For someone like yourself if what you say is true (you have no meta/alternate ways of playing), then why at this point, if I take you at face value, should I not scumread you for not solving the game at this point, or other relatively straightforward reasons I can justify?

On January 27 2015 02:12 VisceraEyes wrote:

Okay then let me consider it logically.

Logically speaking I know that:
1a) Palmar considers himself a good player
1b) Palmar considers D1 to be his strongest day
1c) Palmar's opinion of his play diminishes sharply AFTER D1

2) Palmar has done nothing but troll D1

3a) Palmar speaks to VE as if he knows VE is town
3b) Palmar tends to require quite a bit from VE, generally speaking, to read him town
3c) In the face of VE calling Palmar scum, Palmar continues to consider VE town.

Now if I assume that mafia want to blend in and hide, then yes, I can then assume that mafia!Palmar would not act this way. However, what of all my other truths about Palmar? Do I just dismiss them out of hand?

On January 27 2015 02:18 Toadesstern wrote:
can we expect you to tell us what you're after and what you got out of it by the end of today Palmar?
Today as in this literal day, not the mafia day

On January 27 2015 02:20 Eden1892 wrote:
Palmar, last game we played together you were town and got really pissed off that I killed off one of your townreads.

What are you doing this game to stop this from happening again, bearing in mind that (a) it's easier to do that in a smaller game and (b) a mislynch hurts more in a smaller game?


Other updates: Half the Sky is clearly town. I feel that Robik and VisceraEyes are probably town for tilting, but I have no mafia priors on VE and one from close to a year ago on Robik, so it's difficult for me to falsify either feeling.


Also anyone whining about drunk posts but not reading and commenting on the big post with reads that came after it is a donkey and should be ashamed.

On January 27 2015 02:21 VisceraEyes wrote:
Initially it was all about your lack of engagement with the game, while simultaneously feeling it necessary to troll. Initially you hadn't made a read on ANYONE, including myself. And even after you started engaging with me you never EXPRESSLY said you thought I was town, which is WHY I found it odd that you were speaking to me AS IF you knew I was town.

On January 27 2015 02:22 Half the Sky wrote:


Tilting means....?

On January 27 2015 02:22 VisceraEyes wrote:
Like, obviously ^this^ is why I'm town. But I hadn't done any of that shit at the time, which is now part of why I question your alignment. Because you're not questioning mine.

On January 27 2015 02:25 VisceraEyes wrote:

I'm saying it to explain my read on you. You are framing it in such a way (illogical, based on nothing) that REQUIRES me to explain myself further. It's SOOOO SCUMMY!!!!

On January 27 2015 02:26 VisceraEyes wrote:


These are like, his only posts before I'd made my read. Neither of them are contributory or give any kind of read of anything. Like, I don't know what's so hard to understand. It's not what I expect from townPalmar.

On January 27 2015 02:58 IAmRobik wrote:

There's a 0 percent chance you deliberately thought...hmmm, i'm gonna leave this part out...oh, i'm also gonna leave this part out, and finally leave this part out. Lie to someone else

On January 27 2015 03:00 VisceraEyes wrote:
Robik speaks with absolution for strategic dramatic effect.

On January 27 2015 03:01 IAmRobik wrote:

You're probably from the right part of the map, you sneaky European

On January 27 2015 03:02 VisceraEyes wrote:

Yes bby just put ur neck in this hole and stand just....here.

On January 27 2015 03:04 IAmRobik wrote:

You lied about one thing, you can certain lie about something else

On January 27 2015 03:45 Half the Sky wrote:


And I had a followup to that. Because I have demonstrated yet again that you are taking things out of context.

Furthermore if you are town, you actually need to show signs of solving the game. I don't see an alternative from you.

Defensive posts are understandable but you need to do more than that.

On January 26 2015 09:19 Toadesstern wrote:

directed at me?
Null. Wasn't the same "I don't give a fuck" you had in yours, as well as being made after I told the thread that I liked your innitial vote. Sure I didn't explain why I liked it despite it being a horrible vote at that time but being the 2nd one to do something like that, especially after I point it out like that, is a lot easier than being the first to do it, so no towniepoints for that.

So nothing really

On January 27 2015 01:27 Toadesstern wrote:
I'd be happy if some of you guys unvoted GB for now. It's an instant majority game and I don't feel confident in going forwards to lynch anyone right now so please let me have more time to read and interact with people.

In particularly I'd like to hear some thoughts, particularly from VE and Palmar on Eden and his behavior yesterday
+ Show Spoiler [my thoughts, spoiler for readability] +

I liked this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/475954-hammertime-mafia?page=16#310 from VE he did recently.
Liked as in, I think that's something he'd post. I don't really agree with the first part and I am particularly worried that he picked that read as his vote so early when it's quite obvious that GB is perhaps one of the weak points of the playerfield (sry).
GB, to me seems like the easy mislynch right now. Could be VE feels a lot stronger about that read the way he phrased it but I don't hold GB to the same standards as I hold most other people in here, so he's getting a pass based from me right now.

All in all I'm leaning towards Eden, liancourt and Palmar right now. Lian because like I already mentioned I didn't like the fact that I had to be the one to point at the timestamps of HIS target + somethings bothering me about how he's appearing in here. Can't put my finger on it yet. Palmar mostly by process of elimination because Eden + lian doesn't make sense together. So it all goes back to

On January 27 2015 07:15 Toadesstern wrote:
can someone restate the things that make GB mafia that don't boil down to "he's bad"?
I don't care about him being wrong with what he does. I want to see why doing what's wrong is more beneficial for him as mafia than as a townie.

Because I still only see him as the easy mislynch to be honest.

On January 27 2015 07:35 Half the Sky wrote:
FFS Palmar where is this substantial post you have promised us earlier today?

On January 27 2015 07:38 Half the Sky wrote:


Not those words per se, but something of interest to driving discussion in the game.



Unless it was that damned troll vote on Toad.

On January 27 2015 09:34 VisceraEyes wrote:
I'll update my reads in a bit.

##Unvote

Spoiler alert: I still think Palmar is mafia.

On January 27 2015 04:36 Half the Sky wrote:
All people wanting to lynch Liancourt, I urge you to please wait 3-5h until he wakes up before pushing his lynch. He is unable to defend himself because he's asleep.

Perspective please.

On January 27 2015 18:05 Eden1892 wrote:

qtpi aint no guy

On January 27 2015 18:17 Eden1892 wrote:

no visceraeyes on list. ._?_0_i

On January 27 2015 19:04 Eden1892 wrote:
oki. is liancourt town? i decided he was but it's hard for me to evaluate him

On January 27 2015 19:33 Toadesstern wrote:

I've never done that as mafia ever. I'm not even sure if "against GB" means "against GB lynch" or "against GB (being town)" with the topic being what it is recently.

On January 27 2015 20:31 Half the Sky wrote:
Palmar you don't think Lian's most recent posting elevates his standing to you at all?

On January 27 2015 21:54 GlowingBear wrote:
HTS I'm not ignoring your posts, I'm just not reading a lot from the thread yet. Sometimes I get a random page and see what's going on. That's all.

You're calling me mafia for things that doesn't make me mafia. You're too tunnelled.

On January 27 2015 18:22 Toadesstern wrote:

if you take out my name from that list those other three have been the ones I want to lynch every since the last... 24 hours? ... what does that tell us about what you should be thinking about me?

On January 27 2015 15:54 Toadesstern wrote:

I'm one of the guys that figures out who's town and lynches into whoever is left, starting with the guy my stomach likes the least as I'm usually incredibly confident in my townreads. You're probably not going to see me make long cases about people being mafia. That mostly goes out to you and lian who said he expected me to be someone like Marv/HF... I even told you that I'm the kind of guy that just looks cute and everyone wants to cuddle :3

That being said, a walkthrough of my thoughts lately would be: We lynch into Eden / Lian / Onegu, preferably Lian or Onegu at the point of when I made my general list. Robik if we havn't won by then.

Right now I'm fairly confident that I don't want to touch Eden at all, he has been quite impressive the last 24~30 hours or so and like I already said I agree with that one point on GB you did, so he dropped in my list. So for right now it's between Onegu and Lian, leaning towards Onegu. GB for me is an option I'd be willing to discuss but that to me has the same value as a policy lynch because a potential mislynch on GB would be a disaster. Meaning if that guy ends up town we had the easiest votedump for mafia ever for d1. Onegu has that under-the-radar but not just completly afk feel to him I don't like. Lian I have to reread some because people apparently think he got super towny in the last couple hours?

I'd also like to add Palmar to the list because he still hasn't done shit at all but let's be honest here, he knows me good enough to know that I'd only be pressuring and asking people to give him one more day if push comes to shove. I've seen him behave exactly like this as town multiple times (I think? at least once), which doesn't make him town but I'd try to avoid that lynch d1.

On January 27 2015 08:19 Toadesstern wrote:


the more I think about that one point, the more I like it actually. It is clearly showing mafia agenda, more so than any other case done so far, including my own reads that are all based on how people are interacting here because d1 is usually really hard to get some mafia agenda when noone has flipped yet.

I'd be voting him if I didn't want to make sure we get more time right now. There's still the lingering fear that he's bad and the easy mislynch but it makes me feel way better about this.

On January 27 2015 08:00 Toadesstern wrote:

I'm mostly still townreading him for the vote on me that had a townish confidence to it to not give a fuck

About your case. I actually quite like it and am considering GB a null at best right now...
I don't care so much about your first point about him and your last point, but the second one about Onegu just commenting on the vote without trying to figure anything out when indeed he was confused and asked about wether it's a troll / mayor / lynch vote at just that time.

That could very well be painting someone red rather than trying to read someone.

On January 27 2015 07:15 Toadesstern wrote:
can someone restate the things that make GB mafia that don't boil down to "he's bad"?
I don't care about him being wrong with what he does. I want to see why doing what's wrong is more beneficial for him as mafia than as a townie.

Because I still only see him as the easy mislynch to be honest.

On January 28 2015 00:18 Half the Sky wrote:


Is this sarcastic? (Honest question.)

If you're being serious, I'll probably ask you a bit more post-game.

On January 28 2015 00:23 Half the Sky wrote:
Palmar, one practical question for you then, what would you do if the votes aren't there for Toad as we're getting closer to EoD?

On January 28 2015 00:22 IAmRobik wrote:

You're very manipulative

On January 28 2015 01:13 GlowingBear wrote:
##Vote: Glowingbear

Go. Hammer me.

On January 28 2015 01:25 Half the Sky wrote:


WHAT?!?!?!?!

I thought he already did?

Why aren't we taking out a confirmed scummer?

Palmar you are breaking my heart

On January 28 2015 01:29 GlowingBear wrote:


Yes, I have.

Think about the vote.

On January 28 2015 01:38 GlowingBear wrote:
Palmar is mafia

On January 28 2015 01:43 GlowingBear wrote:
Yes you are palmar.
You would never jump this easily on a guy who is voting himself knowing that there are only 2 scums in the game and survivability is crucial, SPECIALLY when it's instant majority.

Too risky move for a mafia to do in instant majority. You know that.

On January 28 2015 01:45 GlowingBear wrote:


That's why you voted the Chyz in imperial right?
Oh you didn't.

On January 28 2015 02:03 Toadesstern wrote:
just make sure to lynch down my list afterwards and that'll be fine

On January 28 2015 02:10 Toadesstern wrote:
I mean, with meaningful discussion like this I might as well just make sure that if worst case happens and you guys actually lynch me you continue with Onegu, Lian and GB instead of raging at other people... though Robik deserves some rage

On January 28 2015 02:12 Toadesstern wrote:

have you ever stated why I'm confirmed mafia besides the big posts that were taking out of context (though I have to admit, Eden apparently didn't read them the way I intended you to read them either, which is why I cleared things up, you know, the posts you ignored)

On January 28 2015 02:14 Toadesstern wrote:

I'VE NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT VOTES ARE. I GOT HERE MAYBE 30 MINUTES AGO, SAW YOUR BIG WALL AND A BUNCH OF VOTES ON ME THUS GETTING MOST IMPORTANT THINGS OUT FIRST.

On January 28 2015 02:20 Toadesstern wrote:
Like look at the fucking guy who is, in his own words, LEADING THIS LYNCH

that's all there is about me. EVERYTHING


That's what there is from HTS

where does this even come from....

On January 28 2015 02:22 VisceraEyes wrote:
I don't want to lynch Toad today but I could get behind a GB lynch.

On January 28 2015 04:44 GlowingBear wrote:
If you believe mafia would have hammered me you have to think that toad is mafia The only thing that prevents me to vote toad is that palmar is scum reading him

On January 28 2015 07:53 Eden1892 wrote:
Palmar, on the other hand, I feel more confident is mafia. I noted on p47 that Palmar seemed like a slightly more exaggerated version of himself in this game; he seemed to be more aggressively trolly/apathetic to start the day and then more aggressively active/ostensibly-helpful once that stopped. In my (limited) experience with Palmar as town, he tends to ease his way into a game; there's very little pushing to the degree he's done here, and his warmup process is slower and smoother. He doesn't go from 0 to 90 fucks given like he has here; it's more of a steady press on the give-a-fuck accelerator. It feels like he dropped a brick on the accelerator this game, like he was trying to make sure no one could question that he was being active and involved now.

On January 28 2015 07:53 Eden1892 wrote:
Then there's his vote for GlowingBear... HTS already noted it. It's a policy vote, not a vote for mafia. The problem is that it's a policy vote based on GB martyring that's stayed on GB after GB retracted his self-vote. Policy votes are meant to be done to discourage the behavior triggering the policy vote. For them to be effective, then, there must be an incentive to revoke the behavior - a revoked vote in exchange. Palmar hasn't met GB halfway. If he really cares about the policy being effective, why is he not retracting his vote? On the other hand, if Palmar was just looking for a nice-sounding reason to put a vote down on GB (L-1 no less) and walk away, it makes perfect sense.

On January 28 2015 06:26 Half the Sky wrote:
Alright. For those of us who wish to try:

Here's Palmar's games out of the database. He has NOT rolled scum often at all this year.

+ Show Spoiler [Palmar] +

Have at it. Any input would be grand.

On January 28 2015 09:24 Half the Sky wrote:
So I'm not going to bed quite yet...

Palmar....you didn't answer my question.

You were scumreading Toad.

Why would you throw in a policy vote over pushing Toad, a scumread of yours? Am I missing something?

On January 28 2015 09:24 Half the Sky wrote:


I'll admit I tried. I admitted I hated it. I gave up.

Next?

On September 15 2014 19:06 Palmar wrote:
Because policy lynches are dumb.

On June 27 2014 19:10 Palmar wrote:

He should be policy lynched.

If he's lying, he's doing it for mafia purpose. If he's not lying he's playing against his win con (unless mafia) and needs to be lynched.

He's doing a play that benefits mafia more than town, and should be policy lynched. There is no point in analyzing him unless you think he's lying, and if he's lying he's confirmed mafia.

On June 02 2014 04:36 Palmar wrote:
To be honest, HF really has to be mafia, and he's playing against his win condition as either alignment. I hope he gets at least a warning for this.

If he wants to martyr we should kill him. It's annoying as fuck and it's terrible and selfish play by him. Requesting to be lynched is about as low as it gets and I'm surprised HF goes that low. I honestly hope he's mafia because it's so fucking ironic that he's complaining about other players not putting in effort while deliberately trying to throw the game himself, no matter his alignment.

Like he's by far the worst offender here.

On July 13 2014 07:18 Palmar wrote:
Fuck it, I'm okay with this lynch, mostly because if they're town these guys are actively playing against their win condition and ruining the game for the rest of us by not trying to fight a mislynch on day 1, so either they're assholes or mafia.

So yeah there's that. I'm gonna try to read a few more filters.

I didn't read slam, that's pointless. I read sqrtofneg1's filter. I liked OnceKing's red/green/black sentence on him. sqrt has basically been martyring since then so whatever.

On February 15 2014 00:09 Palmar wrote:


I don't think martyring is particularly telling one way or the other.

But the difference is that holyflare was raging about in-game stuff, ie: he was mad that he wasn't being listened to. WoS is just mad that people are calling him scum.

I don't know this game hard.

On December 15 2012 01:26 Palmar wrote:

I also kinda liked his martyr post.

I'm not ready to say he's conclusively town, and so many people calling him scum gives me certain pause, but those a are a few examples of the things that make me thing he's probably not scum.

On January 28 2015 09:26 Eden1892 wrote:
Wait hol up Palmar

What is case on Toad

On January 28 2015 09:57 VisceraEyes wrote:
See Palmar was that so fucking hard? Jesus...

On January 28 2015 10:00 GlowingBear wrote:


This is the proof.

If I was actually martyring, if I was really conceding, do you think I would reply such thing to palmar?

On January 28 2015 10:06 GlowingBear wrote:


Palmar, if you were so mad at me that you had to vote me for that, why asking this BEFORE voting me?

On January 28 2015 10:11 GlowingBear wrote:




Then when I bring a fact like this, you just dismiss it, saying it is irrelevant, when it is EXTREMELY relevant, since you didn't have the same behaviour there when another guy was martyring. And this game is majority lynch. That game was plurality.

On January 28 2015 10:11 GlowingBear wrote:


But I didn't have, and you made sure I didn't, because just After you said I had 3 votes and THEN you voted me

On January 28 2015 10:12 Eden1892 wrote:

It really isn't.

On January 28 2015 10:13 GlowingBear wrote:


Point out the failure in my line of thought.

On January 28 2015 10:14 GlowingBear wrote:


Then why voting me and risking getting me hammered in the fist place? The day would have ended

Lol palmar. WTF

On January 28 2015 10:15 GlowingBear wrote:
No way you're town giving those bullshitty excuses.

##Vote: Palmar

On January 28 2015 10:15 GlowingBear wrote:
No way you're town giving those bullshitty excuses.

##Vote: Palmar

On January 28 2015 10:21 GlowingBear wrote:
Palmar, everything you say enters in contradiction.
You said you could have hammered me.
Then I show you knew you wouldn't

On January 28 2015 10:21 GlowingBear wrote:
Then you say that you didn't want the day to end
Then I say that it doesn't make sense because if you didn't want he day to end you shouldn't be voting me at the first place

On January 28 2015 10:21 GlowingBear wrote:
Then you say that if I flipped town it would tell a lot about the person who hammered me, when I clearly stated the opposite: that scum would avoid hammering to deflect attention, and again, this goes against th idea of the day not ending.

On January 28 2015 10:24 VisceraEyes wrote:
Ehhhhh...I think I like this the most.

##Unvote
##Vote: liancourt

Palmar feel free to elaborate on your Toad read whenever you get the chance. If I agree with it I might reconsider - I'm historically bad at reading Toad, so meh.

On January 28 2015 10:21 Eden1892 wrote:

can't be Onegu

On January 28 2015 10:23 GlowingBear wrote:
I'm showing you that it isn't bias, it is that the reasons you bring enters in contradiction, which shows that you aren't really telling your real motivation to vote me.

Is it a policy lynch? Then you don't care about the day.

They can't go together.

On January 28 2015 10:26 GlowingBear wrote:


ARGH I KNOW, THAT'S THE WHOLE FUCKING PROBLEM. I really think you have fitted scum POV but toads vote was ridiculous

On January 28 2015 10:31 GlowingBear wrote:


That's the problem. I can't think of town motivation to do that. I would take a step back if I could see it. But I don't see town looking at a self vote and instantly voting on that guy.
I'm trying to put myself in your place as town, but I would instantly townread the guy who did that.

On January 28 2015 18:20 Eden1892 wrote:
ROBIK AND PALMAR

Thoughts on liancourt?

On January 28 2015 18:50 Eden1892 wrote:

Onegu has a great argument for lynching liancourt.


liancourt's posting this game has been to afk for most of it, then show up and respond to events that are of varying significance long after they cease to be relevant, say nothing insightful about these events, not interact with people in the thread, and then afk again to repeat the cycle.

That's a great reason to lynch someone. And Onegu keeps pushing the lynch when he's around to do it.

I'm not really seeing how they're equivalent at all tbh.

On January 28 2015 22:19 VisceraEyes wrote:
Palmar look at Onegu, with special attention to his read on liancourt. Tell me what you see.

On January 28 2015 22:28 VisceraEyes wrote:

You know that shit doesn't work on me...

On January 28 2015 22:27 Half the Sky wrote:
Palmar, if you're in thread, can you answer one last question I had?





I'm still a tad confused on what you were trying to do with GB. Were you scumreading him at all when you looked into this?

And if you were how did a scumread become a policy vote?

On January 28 2015 22:30 VisceraEyes wrote:
Bah, mine were commands too.

Whatever...either explain your Toad read or look at Onegu for me. Otherwise you might have to convince a mafia to replace me on your lynch preference.

On January 28 2015 23:38 VisceraEyes wrote:
Hmmm.

On the one hand I can see that I guess. Toad hasn't been jumping up and down about anyone, which is pretty much a Toad staple to me.

On the other hand I don't want to give Palmar the satisfaction of getting his lynch by saying only "Lynch Toad" repeatedly.

On January 29 2015 00:32 Half the Sky wrote:
Palmar, are you back in troll mode again?

Do you have a second scumread? (unless I missed it)

There are two scum in this game, you know.

On January 29 2015 00:58 Half the Sky wrote:


You're not being helpful right now...

On January 29 2015 01:45 liancourt wrote:
Before I sleep a few of my thoughts.

1. Onegu not hammering GB when he had 4 votes.

This does not make him confirmed town. The argument that mafia "would have" hammered gb under the assumption that gb is town is invalid because mafia could have just as well not hammered to make themselves townie. Thus the argument is very much wifom. There are several premises for this argument.

GB is town. (assumption) The basis for this argument/hypothesis
Mafia hammers on town. (assumption) The general logic held by the players that mafia would definitely hammer town when given the chance.
Onegu did not hammer on GB. (fact)
ergo
Onegu is town. (assumption) conclusion

The conclusion is a fallacy because it's based on 2 assumptions. 2 dangerous assumptions.

2. GB self voting making him town

This also does not make him confirmed town. Mafia can just as well self vote. Self voting is not a town trait. The argument is wifom since both allignments can do it.

The premise that:

Self voting is town. (assumption/hypo)
GB self voted. (fact/truth)
ergo
GB is town (assumption)

The conclusion here is also a fallacy because the premise is an assumption.

Socrates is a man. (fact)
Men are mortal. (fact)
ergo
Socrates is mortal. (fact)

For something to be confirmed the premises all need to be facts, but every argument has been based on "assumptions" of mafia would do this and that. I will not let town have confirmed townies based on assumption and an argument that is a fallacy. I've seen it in carol and I've seen it on nye. Both times were on vote analysis and they were all absolutely wrong. In carol it was the 2 wagons on d2. Town assumed that the 2 wagons couldn't possibly be 2 mafia which they were. In nye scum changed his vote off of a townie to vote an outlier when the 2 wagons were town & scum. The votes were close iirc it was a 1 vote difference and scum instead of insuring the town ml took off his vote and voted for an outlier...The conclusion that followed was that the other wagon was not mafia because scum would have kept his vote on the townie. Well it was wrong totally. Other wagon was scum. These were all because of town's ASSUMPTIONS. Don't make assumptions. Make reads based on content please. Making assumption is the sure fire way of losing this game.

GB and Onegu are not confirmed town.

Town needs to read GB and Onegu w/o factoring in the self vote incident and how onegu didn't hammer. Examine them by content please. Don't make the mistake again I beg you. I have them as my scum, so please read into them. Also toad hasn't done anything distinctive and seems content doing nothing.

I will like to lynch into these 3 ppl.

Onegu >gb > toad

I will hopefully wake up before deadline unless someone else gets hammered first. Imma sleep now. See you tomorrow early and i can interact live with the thread.

On January 29 2015 01:48 VisceraEyes wrote:

I'm not in total disagreement...

On January 29 2015 01:55 VisceraEyes wrote:

I think I like you better when you incorrectly call me mafia, if you can believe that.

On January 29 2015 02:17 Eden1892 wrote:
Ok no. Palmar do something.

##VOTE: Palmar

I will not lose to this display.

On January 29 2015 03:34 Eden1892 wrote:

Lynch this guy for being useless

On January 29 2015 04:20 IAmRobik wrote:

You're not even voting him! WTF are you doing

On January 29 2015 06:49 Half the Sky wrote:


Are you out of your bloody mind?
Half your filter is "kill toad". You spent most of D1 trolling with other shit.



You can say the same thing for Lian and to an extent GlowingBear.



You could say the same thing for GB too.

How is your case more substantiated than the ones on Lian and GB?
Are you townreading either of Lian or GB? If so, why?

On January 29 2015 07:09 Eden1892 wrote:
Ugh fuck it. I expect better from Palmar. We gave him a day, he had the beginnings of a case on Toad and then spammed the thread with "kill Toad" without actually attempting to convince people to kill Toad. If he's going to insist he's not trolling then I'm going to treat his play with appropriate seriousness.

##UNVOTE
##VOTE: Palmar

On January 29 2015 07:24 Half the Sky wrote:


I disagree on Lian. A lot of theoreticals where others have already acted upon what he said.

Scum like to use that "big shiny post" to make people think twice.

On January 29 2015 07:25 IAmRobik wrote:
who does mr onegu want to lynch and why? I think he's the only person here who's townies i know but who's scum i don't know

On January 29 2015 07:27 Half the Sky wrote:


GB/Lian scumteam anyone?

On January 27 2015 23:41 Palmar wrote:

This post is complete horseshit









In fact I am much more sure on Toad being mafia than GB. But lynching both might be fine.

The point here is Toad is waffling so hard on GB that it's almost painful

On January 29 2015 07:30 Eden1892 wrote:

Instead of doing this, will you not waste the day dicking around and be productive tomorrow?

If you're town. If you're mafia then sure whatever go ahead.

On January 29 2015 07:32 Onegu wrote:



Where? Like nothing is close.

On January 29 2015 07:33 Eden1892 wrote:

God damn it Palmar.

On January 29 2015 07:38 Half the Sky wrote:
Palmar, do you have a second scumread?

Whether you like it or not, you're not getting five on Toad, end of.

On January 29 2015 07:37 Eden1892 wrote:
I won't vote HTS, Robik, Palmar, Onegu.

If HTS won't vote VE and Palmar probably won't vote VE either, then it doesn't matter whether or not I'd vote VE.

That leaves me with the same pool as HTS. Unsure of order.

If you're online right now and not voting for one of Toad, lian or GB, please reconsider.

As for where I'm voting - liancourt probably first because he's still off doing his own thing. If Palmar's going to dick around d2 no matter whether we lynch Toad or not then I'll probably wait on Toad because I have no compelling incentive to kill him vs other targets. Maybe GB instead of either? Shrug. Robik's nonreaction to my hopping on and off GB is unexpected, dunno what it means.

On January 29 2015 07:39 Half the Sky wrote:
VE doesn't have a single vote, hasn't even been voted once this cycle, and 50 mins to even open a case on him, unrealistic, IMO. I understand why some might want to scumread him.

On January 29 2015 07:39 Eden1892 wrote:

I keep entertaining the thought because you spent so much fucking time just saying "kill toad" instead of actually engaging the thread and trying to get people to do it.

But now you are, and I feel like a dumbass for calling you on it during d1, because if you're town I could easily see you just putting the thought out there to seed it in others' heads and then waiting until the inevitable EOD consolidation to go to work. So it's not a trivial matter to determine if you're doing that or if you're mafia just reacting to being called out. Ughuhksadk

On January 29 2015 07:40 Eden1892 wrote:

As opposed to spamming like "kill onegu" or some shit instead. Smh