[M][N]Hammertime Mafia

On January 22 2015 19:59 Eden1892 wrote:


:hype:

On January 23 2015 10:45 Toadesstern wrote:
couldn't we just wait until Sunday/Monday to start this if that's the problem for HF? Not like 2 more days will make that much a difference?

On January 23 2015 08:45 Balla24 wrote:
/sitout

On January 26 2015 08:32 Eden1892 wrote:
also we have a qt together

is that relevant to the game? i dont remember

On January 26 2015 08:32 Eden1892 wrote:
also we have a qt together

is that relevant to the game? i dont remember

On January 26 2015 08:40 Half the Sky wrote:


No blue roles in this game, so I am confused.

On January 26 2015 09:11 Eden1892 wrote:
everyone is null so far

except qtpi. qtpi is confirmed town and i am also confirmed town

i changed my mind, im going to lurk instead of afk. i hope that makes me easier to read

On January 26 2015 09:19 Toadesstern wrote:

directed at me?
Null. Wasn't the same "I don't give a fuck" you had in yours, as well as being made after I told the thread that I liked your innitial vote. Sure I didn't explain why I liked it despite it being a horrible vote at that time but being the 2nd one to do something like that, especially after I point it out like that, is a lot easier than being the first to do it, so no towniepoints for that.

So nothing really

On January 26 2015 09:37 Eden1892 wrote:
Wait who the fuck said I'm good?

On January 26 2015 10:24 Eden1892 wrote:
GB going against several truths and/or popular opinions can make him town for now

On January 26 2015 10:34 Eden1892 wrote:

Great post. Printing out from mobile to frame on the wall of this restaurant.

liancourt I have no idea what omgus is, please explain

On January 26 2015 10:36 Eden1892 wrote:

Mafia don't go against the grain early unless their team is under the crosshairs early. No one is under crosshairs so mafia GB doesn't go against grain. Ez

On January 26 2015 11:18 Eden1892 wrote:
What's odd about HTS

Xplain like I'm five And drunk at bday dinner cuz I sm

On January 26 2015 11:22 Eden1892 wrote:
Proof http://imgur.com/3Xgxpzj

Sober peopl don't spill lobster on the griyd

On January 26 2015 11:25 Eden1892 wrote:

I didn't read anything but your toad spoiler

And mine but I'm a Marxist

On January 26 2015 11:17 Eden1892 wrote:
I thought he:
Scum read toad town's opening when people seemed to like it
Scum read HTS when people townread her
Scum read me when other people were unsure (he said I was tops mafia lol)

That's rather a lot for the opening

On January 26 2015 11:17 Eden1892 wrote:
I thought he:
Scum read toad town's opening when people seemed to like it
Scum read HTS when people townread her
Scum read me when other people were unsure (he said I was tops mafia lol)

That's rather a lot for the opening

On January 26 2015 11:30 Eden1892 wrote:

In gonna reread this late when I can make send of it

On January 26 2015 11:43 Eden1892 wrote:
Ok. I think I have actual good argument. I type RELLY careful

Lian says I am different from what he remembers so I'm bad

But I was scum then
If I
Different from before isn't that town???

Confused

On January 26 2015 12:07 Eden1892 wrote:
I mean the liancourt thing though
He says he scumread me for being different than before but last game we played I was mafia. How is his reason making sense? And I even explain how I was different.
Dont ignore this please. I will come back to it if people do until they stop. This is a good point. liancourt is just looking for excuse to scumread me with that read

On January 27 2015 02:20 Eden1892 wrote:
Also anyone whining about drunk posts but not reading and commenting on the big post with reads that came after it is a donkey and should be ashamed.

On January 27 2015 02:22 Half the Sky wrote:


Tilting means....?

On January 27 2015 02:20 Eden1892 wrote:
Palmar, last game we played together you were town and got really pissed off that I killed off one of your townreads.

What are you doing this game to stop this from happening again, bearing in mind that (a) it's easier to do that in a smaller game and (b) a mislynch hurts more in a smaller game?


Other updates: Half the Sky is clearly town. I feel that Robik and VisceraEyes are probably town for tilting, but I have no mafia priors on VE and one from close to a year ago on Robik, so it's difficult for me to falsify either feeling.


Also anyone whining about drunk posts but not reading and commenting on the big post with reads that came after it is a donkey and should be ashamed.

On January 27 2015 02:30 Eden1892 wrote:

Sure let's unpack assumptions.

I am assuming you are playing to win.

You stated in a game in the recent past that you believe your d1 reads to be pretty good, particularly d1 town reads.
Presuming you still believe this, and presuming you are town, it is curious to me that you are doing very little in the way of giving reads at the moment, because that runs the risk of one of your town reads getting killed. Even if you don't have town reads, you presumably will eventually get them because you want to win, and once you get them you presumably would want to make sure they don't die because you want to win.

You are not doing this, so one of the assumptions above is wrong. Which is it?
- You are playing to win
- You believe your d1 reads to be pretty good, particularly d1 town reads
- You are town

On January 27 2015 02:39 Eden1892 wrote:

he asked me a question mang

On January 27 2015 02:55 Eden1892 wrote:
Robik if I help you lynch GlowingBear can we lynch liancourt next? If you thought GB had it out for you, just read liancourt's filter, like half of it is targeted at me and it's mostly misinterpretations

On January 27 2015 04:15 Eden1892 wrote:

hts says so, i've only played one game with him where he was town and i was mafia, and he locked onto me. but idk if he just does it in general or was zeroed in on me because i was obvious LOL

my issue is less that he's zeroed in on me and refusing to budge or explain himself, because townies and mafia both tunnel on targets all the time. my issue is the reasoning he's using, which i feel like doesn't come from the position of someone who doesn't have the truth and is trying to figure it out, but instead from the position of someone who does have the truth and is trying to obscure it from the others

On January 27 2015 07:18 Eden1892 wrote:
Pop quiz time.
Who can name something of relevance that Onegu has done this game?

The answer key is below, please don't peek until you've guessed.
+ Show Spoiler +

On January 01 2015 13:33 ritoky wrote:
finally caught up in the thread, don't have a lot of time because new years is a busy day in the ER; just gonna copy/paste my notes in the thread; sorry i can't be more engaged:

note - trying not to null read anyone from this point forward, list everyone as town or scum unless they haven't posted

koshi - his wording in certain cases seems like he is trying to appease (i.e. "TheChyz is not scummy to me. I am not saying he is a townread but the case Dr.H. makes is not how I read Chyz." and other cases of not saying people's alignment ex: calling me and drh meh), says needs something new and fresh doesn't make it happen. mafia pile

gb - did his "not reading the thread" shtick which he did as town twice before, done nothing else. town pile

*geript - start of game was town: jokes, prodding, pushing for answers, calling someone's case horrible. did mafia thing where promised information in terms of meta reads on people, hasn't delivered. dunno why, think this post is super town: "At some point yah. But I'd like to have a read on most of the people in the game. There's way too many inactives right now. Maybe when I reread I'll realize I'm being dumb idk. We'll see." could be wrong, look into again later. town pile for now*

artanis - asking questions, pushing for answers to his questions, him being "torn" about chyz seems a little odd not enough to worry now, but watch to see how that read develops. town pile

lazer - says won't lynch drh, then null reads me for essentially the same reason. makes not very much sense. has a torn sentiment on geript like me and skeptical of koshi like me. could be wrong, but read too strange. mafia pile

marv - supposedly great town player, managed 2nd page of filter while doing remarkably little. read on me seems lazy and inaccurate. mafia pile

^jat - bleeding town out of every orofice. town pile^

*robik - made it to almost 2 pages of his filter while complaining about not having time to play, could have spent time playing. promises to wreck, worth waiting until tomorrow to see because strong town player. town pile*

thechyz - posts seem incredibly honest...can't place finger on it. could be slight donkey, but really seemed concerned about thread direction. snap omgus'd drH, which seems more town responsive in the context. town pile

palmar - agree with lots of his reads, don't like excuses. town pile

damdred - has a non-lazy meta read on me as opposed to marv. pushing thread in productive direction and correcting others for misrepresenting people's arguments. town pile

*batsnacks - someone (look up later) said batsnacks has been playing differently. seems like same town batsnacks to me. could have bad read on him. town pile*

SL - bizarre play. seemed to be trying to defuse me and drH arguing early, has weird interaction where he demands i have a read on him, when i don't. formulates a bunch of random thoughts in regards to me not remembering previous game. no idea what he is talking about in the slightest. none of his other reads are formulated in a coherent way, done nothing townie. mafia pile

vivax - no post

*kels - evolving reads, when i was mafia last game with him had static reads that didn't change much of the game, currently his reads seem more fluid, probably town or got better at mafia. this was the guy who said bats playing differently, watch that read. town pile*

ritoky - town jesus

drH - guy contradicting himself all over the place. stupid policy crap, doesn't follow through. forgotten about it entirely at this point. no idea what he is doing. dumpster case on chyz, pot calling kettle black. calling out for hypocrisy not because he is actually scum. has largest filter, probably town unfortunately. is most likely donkey, be wary of his reads they may be bad. town pile

eden - town town town. giving reads unprovoked, not folding when pressured, commenting when unsolicited. seems invested in reads makes very good point about the timing of chyz's post and people exploiting it to get a read on chyz even though the situation had kinda already defused itself. town pile

*rebirth - "i'm here guys! notice me senpai!" into nothing. scum pile for now*

superbia - no post

On January 26 2015 14:22 Onegu wrote:
Ok GB is town mafia isn't going to post notes like that.

Toad is being thread mayor town for now.

Robik also most likely town, stupid for scum to come in and drop a huge dump in thread.

Eden no idea I can't read drunk people with a buzz myself.

Liancort mentions me and palmar but not VE. That's fairly suspicious to me.

The chick hasn't posted much worthwhile either, but that face palm was hella funny.

Palmar VE I miss you ok that is all I can think of for now

Goodnight

On January 26 2015 10:21 GlowingBear wrote:

GB's 1st Mindnotes

(disclaimer: this is something new I'm trying to keep track of my thoughts)

1. IAmRobik
+ Show Spoiler +

2. Onegu
+ Show Spoiler +

3. GlowingBear
+ Show Spoiler +

4. Eden1892
+ Show Spoiler +

5. liancourt
+ Show Spoiler +

6. Palmar
+ Show Spoiler +

7. VisceraEyes
+ Show Spoiler +

8. Toadesstern
+ Show Spoiler +

9. Half the Sky
+ Show Spoiler +

Townreads so far:
Toadsteem
liancourt

Possible scums (in order):
Eden
HTS
Onegu

On January 27 2015 10:00 Eden1892 wrote:
did palmar or onegu give any original reads that made sense yet?

i think this is the bullshit heuristic i'm going to use for d1. shouts to my fave student who i told never to do this that one time~

On January 27 2015 09:45 IAmRobik wrote:
I don't wanna read VE because it bothers me that he is TRing me. We never get along as T/T. I gave my read on Onegu. I don't have reads on other people, but have offered free town reads for people voting for GB. So you can be town too. I think...if you're voting GB still

On January 26 2015 13:04 Eden1892 wrote:
Coming-down-Magic was fun but not for why you'd think it would be.

Anyway I am back and I ?hope? of sound mind and judgment.

I feel like my liancourt read was still pretty coherent. Maybe not in execu-- no, definitely not in execution, but at least in the logic. Let me try to explain it with a little more clarity of mind.

My play style was different from both games he's seen from me, and I was mafia in one and town in the other. At the very least he's obscuring the truth by citing Imperial as the inspiration for his read without making any mention of the fact that my play is different from the time he saw me play mafiasided. I feel like a townie would make mention of this and try to give the other player a fair shake instead of simply going "different from this town game therefore mafia!" while ignoring the equally-important "different from this mafia game therefore ???"

I also kinda felt like it was a cheap shot trying this kind of obscurantist read while I wasn't quite at full mental capacity, but to be fair it's not his fault that I decided to try new alcohol right before he gave his reads. Idk maybe it's unfair to hold that to him, but I felt like it was more sinister than a misunderstanding or error.

I'm gonna go reread but off the top of my head, I have the impression that Toad was town for a particular sequence of decisions: (1) intro post kickstarting discussion into (2) repeated attempts to question/probe other players for their positions while (3) demanding more scrutiny onto himself from other players. Mafia can emulate (1) just fine and regularly do (which is why I just called him a chill dude instead of something alignment-indicative), mafia have a harder time with (2) and especially with (3) - (2) because they struggle to get into a townie mindset and ask questions that make sense / are going somewhere (although it's not a huge struggle, it still requires effort, which is a harder threshold to achieve than you'd think), and (3) because they don't know whether or not they're actually being suspicious/not doing enough to be townread, and so daring people not to townread them so hard/so quickly can come off as tone-deaf with regard to how much a townie should suspect someone and backfire badly. (Imagine the sequence: "Why don't you suspect me?" "Why should I?" "...shouldn't you?" It would clearly indicate a guilty conscience on the part of the first speaker, which wouldn't automatically exist with a townie. Naturally it would never be that obvious, but you get the idea behind it.)

None of this is to say that he strictly speaking couldn't do any of what he's done as mafia, but that I think it would be far more likely for him to do it as town. So he's town.

I also feel like GlowingBear was townie but I don't remember why. Maybe I'll know when I reread.

Robik is suspicious to me because I feel like he's not really been very genuine with his posts. I'll reread to see if I'm right about this, but I remember his post about why he voted for HTS, and his post against GB, and both of them seemed illegit. The HTS thing was probably a joke so eh, but he says "get rekt mafia scum" or whatever when arguing for a kill on GB and it's just like... no one says this. Not even Robik says this. C'mon man.

I forgot Onegu even posted so we could kill him too. Palmar as well until he posts

On January 14 2015 07:51 Eden1892 wrote:

I'll do it instead since SL apparently isn't in an explaining mood.

If lalalipop is mafia then the d2 wagons were mafia/mafia. Oatsmaster only went on a late tiebreaker -- Breshke switching off of lalalipop onto a 3rd party. If Breshke and lalalipop are partners, Breshke probably isn't on lalalipop in the first place and he's definitely not switching to a 3rd party and hoping for no vote switches; he's moving onto Oatsmaster to ensure his teammate gets saved or, alternatively, he's not moving to get that bus cred.

So Breshke's vote move makes no sense if lalalipop is mafia, ergo lalalipop is town

On January 27 2015 01:32 Palmar wrote:

Correct.

Now look within yourself, is there a correlation between what you have just discovered and the alignment you imply I have received?

On January 27 2015 01:55 IAmRobik wrote:

If you're town this game, kindly see that you don't fucking /in any game that i ever play in moving forward. I'm tired of your bullshit. you think I'm mafia every fucking game. You're wrong and annoying and you don't deserve to ever be in a fucking game with me.

From this point on, I will not be reading or responding to any fucking post you make [redacted what i wrote because i don't want to be banned]

On January 27 2015 04:01 Half the Sky wrote:


Lian is in Korea AFAIK. I'd say give another 4h. If he doesn't do jack all, then I think a pressure vote is appropriate then.

On January 27 2015 04:22 Toadesstern wrote:


though if he's tunneling he has confirmation bias by definition. If that's what he's doing it's likely he might ignore the parts you're blaming him for simply because he's certain you're mafia and looking at it only one way: Try to point out things that don't fit with your townmeta because you're mafia anyways

Both what you said and what I said come down to the same thing I feel. It could very well be malicious just the way I think locking on to just one target could be something malicious because that way he doesn't have to make up stuff about a lot of people and can just focus on one guy. But if he does tunnel a lot that's a moot point.

On December 20 2014 10:05 liancourt wrote:
U know why ppl arent lynching hf? Because they are reading his posts and not ignoring the content.

All of hfs posts whether scum or town are all superb. They are alwsys pro town in both alignments.

The thing u have to realize is hf busses nearly everytime. And when he s town he generally gets scum most of the time.

The only scum tell he prolly has is how he reacts to certain posts. If his reaction is genuine fake calm angry etc. Town hf is more angry more frustrated. Scum hf is calm then tries to be angry on purpose and fakes reactions. Ppls pov will differ on whether hfs reactions are fake or not but imo hf has been faking a lot this game. Just like the vote deadline faking anger. He can be angry in both alignments yes but it looked so fake to me. U guys cant put a case on hf for content cos he busses teammates. His content will alwsys be good. U have to read him as how me and slam read him. Slam knows hf so well. I still believe slam is town but dont know why u didnt vote hf when u did last time....slam??? Why????

At gb i m from asia

On December 20 2014 10:13 liancourt wrote:
Gb what is wrong with u???? Are u reading his posts? Stop reading hfs posts. And think for yourself.

Why its korean standard time. Because i m in korea.

On January 27 2015 14:26 Onegu wrote:




Lol,when did I sheep him. and once you get called out for your confirmation bias post you are now willing to listen to Eden lol...

On January 27 2015 14:34 Eden1892 wrote:

my d1 was trash
my n1 was ok

why don't you actually read my posts and stop tunneling like a donkey? you are playing so antitown right now by continuing to antagonize me for no reason

On January 27 2015 14:54 Eden1892 wrote:
this is what's so infuriating. you have an alleged scum read on me due to "meta," but it's obvious from your posts that you aren't even looking at the game YOU HOSTED where i was town. you never considered it when you gave your "meta" read on me, your reaction to my attempts to question you was exactly the wrong response that anyone should take away from my play in that town game.

just what are you doing??

On January 27 2015 04:36 Half the Sky wrote:
All people wanting to lynch Liancourt, I urge you to please wait 3-5h until he wakes up before pushing his lynch. He is unable to defend himself because he's asleep.

Perspective please.

On January 27 2015 18:05 Eden1892 wrote:

qtpi aint no guy

On January 27 2015 18:36 Eden1892 wrote:
bruh you just said GB has the same value as a policy lynch
how you gonna turn around and be like "oh yeah lian/onegu/gb were my lynches"

On January 28 2015 03:56 Eden1892 wrote:
We better not be on five. Someone unvote. We still have a whole day left to discuss this y'all! What are you throwing away more time to figure the game out for?

On January 28 2015 03:50 VisceraEyes wrote:

What are you even saying here? My reasons for being suspicious of GB are documented, and verily even referenced by other players. Are you trying to discredit me or troll me?

On January 28 2015 03:11 GlowingBear wrote:


You consider risking voting for myself to be defensive?
To say that my mind notes posts are forced contribution, I want you to tell me if my reads are fluff. If they aren't fluff, they are actual contribution, so half of your reasons were debunked.

On January 28 2015 04:05 Eden1892 wrote:

bingo, unless both mafia were already on gb

On January 28 2015 01:21 Half the Sky wrote:


GlowingBear, you realise I'm not the only one scumreading you, right?

Oh wait, is that a scum I see giving up?

On January 28 2015 01:23 GlowingBear wrote:


Yeah, that is a scum giving up.

Gg well played

On January 28 2015 07:03 Eden1892 wrote:

^this shit, right here. stop it

On January 28 2015 04:20 Half the Sky wrote:
If GB somehow isn't mafia, this would have to mean Palmar AND Onegu ARE scum.

Because Robik and I were ALREADY on him. But Onegu was NOT sold and thought GB was martyring so we cannot make that association.

On January 28 2015 04:20 Half the Sky wrote:
If GB somehow isn't mafia, this would have to mean Palmar AND Onegu ARE scum.

Because Robik and I were ALREADY on him. But Onegu was NOT sold and thought GB was martyring so we cannot make that association.

On January 28 2015 12:27 liancourt wrote:
i'm looking at pg 45 and the vote analysis is just...meh it's like total wifom. To bus or not to bus....to hammer town as mafia...having 2 mafia on town pre emptively...it's a really wide specualtion with so many different opinions. Unless someone actually hammers and flips this thing we're doing on pg 45...seems like a good way to make a discussion go in circles.

On January 28 2015 07:53 Eden1892 wrote:
OK, so back to it. I think GlowingBear is town, because:
(a) His lynch has been way too easy. We could have had him already several times if we'd wanted it, and I think if this weren't IML he would have been lynched by now.
(b) I'm inclined to believe him when he says he had a plan with his self-voting. I don't know what the plan is, and he's gonna have to explain it or get lynched, but pending a reasonable-sounding explanation, I'll believe that he's town.

From there I'm gonna go look at the other players. I'm town and I feel pretty strongly that Half the Sky is as well.

The first player I'm looking at is Onegu, because like I said before, if GlowingBear is town, then Onegu is town as well. I explained this early on p46, feel free to look back and see. Onegu is town.

I have a bad feeling about both Robik and Palmar. Robik has been very loud and animated about lynching GlowingBear, who I believe now to be town, and has done very little - nothing noteworthy enough for me to remember, anyway - outside of talking about killing GlowingBear. And from what I recall his original reasoning wasn't very good. Furthermore, I really didn't like the "playing to wincon" part of his accusation against GB. As I noted before, the only way Robik can accuse GB of not playing to win con as confidently as he did is if he knows GB is town, because mafia self-hammering can absolutely be part of the mafia win con (whereas town self-hammering never is part of town win con). Perhaps I'm getting greedy; I don't really believe in "scumslips." But I kinda think this was one.

Palmar, on the other hand, I feel more confident is mafia. I noted on p47 that Palmar seemed like a slightly more exaggerated version of himself in this game; he seemed to be more aggressively trolly/apathetic to start the day and then more aggressively active/ostensibly-helpful once that stopped. In my (limited) experience with Palmar as town, he tends to ease his way into a game; there's very little pushing to the degree he's done here, and his warmup process is slower and smoother. He doesn't go from 0 to 90 fucks given like he has here; it's more of a steady press on the give-a-fuck accelerator. It feels like he dropped a brick on the accelerator this game, like he was trying to make sure no one could question that he was being active and involved now.

Then there's his vote for GlowingBear... HTS already noted it. It's a policy vote, not a vote for mafia. The problem is that it's a policy vote based on GB martyring that's stayed on GB after GB retracted his self-vote. Policy votes are meant to be done to discourage the behavior triggering the policy vote. For them to be effective, then, there must be an incentive to revoke the behavior - a revoked vote in exchange. Palmar hasn't met GB halfway. If he really cares about the policy being effective, why is he not retracting his vote? On the other hand, if Palmar was just looking for a nice-sounding reason to put a vote down on GB (L-1 no less) and walk away, it makes perfect sense.

Toad and VE are still in my null pile; I don't see myself pursuing either of them as lynches today. liancourt, I still think is probably town because I can put myself in what I project to be his shoes and make sense of it from a townie POV.

##UNVOTE: Onegu
##VOTE: Palmar

On January 28 2015 13:41 liancourt wrote:


why are you so butt hurt? Did my ignoring you hurt your feelings so bad that you're acting childish like this? I'd like to play a game where we don't post petty insults at each other as much as the next man. I can play like a dick as I've previously shown in titanic d1 and last days of carol and nye. I've reverted to playing my original meta that I used in FFL, FFL2, and hearthstone because I actually enjoyed those games. I'm not being a dick here on purpose like i played in my latest 3 games, but why are you being a dick here? If you keep behaving like this I'll just vote myself or get replaced out. I'd actually like to play a game of wits instead a battle of dick smashing insults. Sure you can go aggressive but insulting and being bm is uncalled for. If you believe my ignoring you was bad mannered and it pissed you off I apologize, if you want to report me for ignoring you and you want to warrant a ban for it I'll take the ban. But if you want to play the game you need to get that prejudice lifted because it is doing you no good.

This is my playstyle. I reread like this and comment on a post i agree on. You can scrutinize criticize saying it's a bad way to play and what not but down right insulting it like this is shallow and childish. I would prefer you refrain from doing these kind of actions in the future.

Good day. I will come back tomorrow before deadline if i can wake up early enough.

3 people I'm willing to lynch today is

onegu > gb > toad

On January 28 2015 10:24 VisceraEyes wrote:
Ehhhhh...I think I like this the most.

##Unvote
##Vote: liancourt

Palmar feel free to elaborate on your Toad read whenever you get the chance. If I agree with it I might reconsider - I'm historically bad at reading Toad, so meh.