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On January 18 2015 15:48 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2015 15:43 rsoultin wrote:On January 18 2015 15:33 geript wrote:On January 18 2015 03:45 jarjarbinks wrote:On January 18 2015 03:23 rsoultin wrote:On January 18 2015 03:17 jarjarbinks wrote:On January 17 2015 19:04 jarjarbinks wrote:
Those were the major reads I got from what I have read up to when I started posting. I'm tired so I will not elaborate on the other people who have posted besides basic thoughts.
Gereipt: Your analysis seems fair. I feel like you would do this no matter what game you play. I haven't played this game to know if you left something out (if your mafia). So I can't give you a solid town or mafia read for now.
Lonemeow: Only defended Trfel and questioned Rsoultin's questioning. Probably due to lack of playing with Rsoultin. This is a possible lurker in my eyes. I guess we shall find out tomorrow.
CoolITLname- definite lurker! Or you know, could be sleeping or something...lol WE SHALL SEE
Waffle- Tried to ask LS a question to establish credibility. Let's see what he does.
DP- I liked gereipts analysis on DP. Very jumpy on Rsoultin for questioning Trfel as well as "missed" Trfel "making waves". Possible she could have just jumped on Rsoultin for the same reasons Rsoultin jumped on Trfel thought. heyro sis! I'll attempt to do what you asked. I'll attempt to do what you asked except i'll put everyone in the section I think they should be in. Town: LS Null: Gereipt Rsoultin Trfel LoneMeow Breshke GB Damdred Scum: DP CoolITLName Definitely expect changes in the next 36 hours though. Hopefully I'll have more people out of the Null category. Damdred, I have another question for you in a second... Ouch. Yeah. That looks like a current list rather than a list based off your initial post (you also left off WW who you mentioned in your summary above). Are you scumreading Cool for lurking? What makes DP scum? Questioning me? I see nothing inherently wrong with questions as long as they're leading somewhere. Yep current list. Not scumming Cool for lurking. More scumming him for leaving me so fast. Seems to be going after the easy target. I did leave out Waffle. He would also be on null. This is the thing that really bugged me about JJB, more than alot of the other little stuff that's been brought up. I'm not seeing how a towny could scum somebody for "leaving a [townie] lynchwagon so fast." Like to me, what Cool said wasn't cool and was pretty sarcastic and mean. I'm not sure if he meant any of it honestly. It's not OMGUS, it's like "Oh you should be scumreading but you left it so fast when you should be scumreading me." It's basically saying Cool is mafia for unvoting JJB, but that doesn't make any sort of sense unless JJB actually is mafia. Devil's advocate time. Or maybe just protective big sister time. He was parroting Damdred there. Whether you think the parroting is scummy or not is up to you, but it's a little obvious where he got that from. Just saying: On January 17 2015 23:48 Damdred wrote:
A reaction or pressure test is brining that up and voting instantly IE like GB did.
You say that you haven't analys'd Jarjar yet, but then why go after him and then one post later say I love this post and never mention him again? There seems to be a disconnect between what you say and what you ar edoing. Ain't no place for pullups in this game missy. You shit your pants you're one one that has to sit in it until your parents come pick you up.
I can almost 90% guarantee that if y'all pull a dumbass move as vets and vote my noob brother for playing bad...he will flip town and you will be eating crow. First, he's playing better than he did last game, which you should know, geript. And secondly, I have actually known this kid since he was in diapers. Forgive me if I believe I can read him better than you.  If he were slam or marv, I'd likely defer to your judgment.
Mr.
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On January 18 2015 15:51 geript wrote:
Actually, Rsoultin. Can you tell me anything you think might help me understand JJB. Like not as a mafia player but as a person. (also the above was clearly a joke)
He's super competitive but doesn't like to show it.(Thus why the google thing, yeah, I could see that from him lol) He jokes under stress and gets flack for it because people assume that means he doesn't care. (Your slam-lite comment?) He's a terrible liar and gets offended if you call him one. He prefers numbers/actions over words because anyone can say anything. He's not going to want to make firm reads until he feels really strongly about them. If he's asking questions (which he has this game) and making an attempt to play, I don't like him for a Day 1 lynch.
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On January 18 2015 16:01 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2015 15:54 rsoultin wrote:On January 18 2015 15:48 geript wrote:On January 18 2015 15:43 rsoultin wrote:On January 18 2015 15:33 geript wrote:On January 18 2015 03:45 jarjarbinks wrote:On January 18 2015 03:23 rsoultin wrote:On January 18 2015 03:17 jarjarbinks wrote:On January 17 2015 19:04 jarjarbinks wrote:
Those were the major reads I got from what I have read up to when I started posting. I'm tired so I will not elaborate on the other people who have posted besides basic thoughts.
Gereipt: Your analysis seems fair. I feel like you would do this no matter what game you play. I haven't played this game to know if you left something out (if your mafia). So I can't give you a solid town or mafia read for now.
Lonemeow: Only defended Trfel and questioned Rsoultin's questioning. Probably due to lack of playing with Rsoultin. This is a possible lurker in my eyes. I guess we shall find out tomorrow.
CoolITLname- definite lurker! Or you know, could be sleeping or something...lol WE SHALL SEE
Waffle- Tried to ask LS a question to establish credibility. Let's see what he does.
DP- I liked gereipts analysis on DP. Very jumpy on Rsoultin for questioning Trfel as well as "missed" Trfel "making waves". Possible she could have just jumped on Rsoultin for the same reasons Rsoultin jumped on Trfel thought. heyro sis! I'll attempt to do what you asked. I'll attempt to do what you asked except i'll put everyone in the section I think they should be in. Town: LS Null: Gereipt Rsoultin Trfel LoneMeow Breshke GB Damdred Scum: DP CoolITLName Definitely expect changes in the next 36 hours though. Hopefully I'll have more people out of the Null category. Damdred, I have another question for you in a second... Ouch. Yeah. That looks like a current list rather than a list based off your initial post (you also left off WW who you mentioned in your summary above). Are you scumreading Cool for lurking? What makes DP scum? Questioning me? I see nothing inherently wrong with questions as long as they're leading somewhere. Yep current list. Not scumming Cool for lurking. More scumming him for leaving me so fast. Seems to be going after the easy target. I did leave out Waffle. He would also be on null. This is the thing that really bugged me about JJB, more than alot of the other little stuff that's been brought up. I'm not seeing how a towny could scum somebody for "leaving a [townie] lynchwagon so fast." Like to me, what Cool said wasn't cool and was pretty sarcastic and mean. I'm not sure if he meant any of it honestly. It's not OMGUS, it's like "Oh you should be scumreading but you left it so fast when you should be scumreading me." It's basically saying Cool is mafia for unvoting JJB, but that doesn't make any sort of sense unless JJB actually is mafia. Devil's advocate time. Or maybe just protective big sister time. He was parroting Damdred there. Whether you think the parroting is scummy or not is up to you, but it's a little obvious where he got that from. Just saying: On January 17 2015 23:48 Damdred wrote:
A reaction or pressure test is brining that up and voting instantly IE like GB did.
You say that you haven't analys'd Jarjar yet, but then why go after him and then one post later say I love this post and never mention him again? There seems to be a disconnect between what you say and what you ar edoing. Ain't no place for pullups in this game missy. You shit your pants you're one one that has to sit in it until your parents come pick you up. I can almost 90% guarantee that if y'all pull a dumbass move as vets and vote my noob brother for playing bad...he will flip town and you will be eating crow. First, he's playing better than he did last game, which you should know, geript. And secondly, I have actually known this kid since he was in diapers. Forgive me if I believe I can read him better than you. If he were slam or marv, I'd likely defer to your judgment. Mr. Please take your panties and unwad them. It's a joke. It's clearly meant as a joke. I'm sorry if it came across is any means other than a sarcastic quip. As to you reading him better than me, it wouldn't surprise me in the least. As for playing better than last game, idk about that. That said, I still want you to tell me what you know about him as a person. Just whatever random factoids that you think of when you think of your lil bro.
I'm not upset lol. Sarcasm for sarcasm. It's okay, though. I've been told I'm dry. Already did respond; if you've got any questions please ask.
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On January 18 2015 16:04 geript wrote:
Do you find it odd at all that I don't think he's claimed town yet?
If you're talking about no:
I AM TOWN I AM TOWN this game...lol that was cause I was mocking HTS in my first post last game. Ongoing joke 
I don't find it odd that you'd notice that or think that was important, but yeah. A joke + he's not stupid. Clearly it didn't prevent him from being mislynched last game, dead JarJar vid and all xP
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On January 18 2015 16:09 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2015 16:07 rsoultin wrote:On January 18 2015 16:04 geript wrote:
Do you find it odd at all that I don't think he's claimed town yet? If you're talking about no: I AM TOWN I AM TOWN this game...lol that was cause I was mocking HTS in my first post last game. Ongoing joke I don't find it odd that you'd notice that or think that was important, but yeah. A joke + he's not stupid. Clearly it didn't prevent him from being mislynched last game, dead JarJar vid and all xP Well you also weren't alive on D3 remember. Plus, I don't think JJB was seriously considered for a lynch on any day except D3. Also, I thought Shining got lynched on D3. It was between 2 towns that the lynch never should have been close to regardless.
Your point? He did that in his first post last game, right after I said it in reference to others' entrance posts. He probably did it 3 or 4 times.
I told people not to lynch him and to trust me on my brother -_- lol. Course I'm wrong so often about other people I guess I can't blame them...entirely.
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On January 18 2015 16:16 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2015 16:12 DarthPunk wrote:On January 18 2015 16:10 geript wrote:
Regarding the Rsoultin case on Trfel, the first part is basically a bunch of BS. Like trying to make a case on Trfel pushing me or not pushing me, that's just fluff. It's also weird that Trfel is "weird" for not liking LS for the LS's changing viewpoint because of you pushing him. I don't really see how that's scummy at all.
I can't really decide if it's yawn bad or yawn mafia. I don't think I want to lynch him today anyways.
(Sorry Dp, this was in a tab and I forgot about it.) The 'analysis' of the Geript vote was incredibly forced. Like it wasn't bad it was trying to FIND things that could be reasonably perceived as mafia. the rest of the case came across that way also. I know. I just can't decide if that's actually be or mafia. Like I think your bar is too high for people and maybe mine is too low. I just can't decide if it feels like honest bullshit or not. Let's look at her filter overall though, that'll give us a better look.
-shrugs- If you have questions let me know, I guess. I didn't think my case was so awful, but that's kind of a given.
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On January 18 2015 16:28 geript wrote:
@Rsoultin. When did your read change on JJB from could be mafia to probably town? More importantly why did it change?
I am tempted to be snarky and to tell you to read my filter, since you're in the process of it already.
His re-entrance into the thread addressing several posts and asking questions was enough at the time to make me reconsider him as a lynch today. I can't say that I was fond of his explanations for his list post, but when I pressed him for the reasons behind his scumreads they seemed genuine enough to me.
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On January 18 2015 16:27 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2015 10:52 rsoultin wrote:On January 17 2015 10:47 LightningStrike wrote:
I don't think there is a voting thread for this game fyi guys. Also what is the BS Meter? I never heard you use this term before can you explain it please? I used it in our last game, Night 1, with -Celestial-. It means that what he's saying strikes me as bullshit, or BS. On January 17 2015 10:47 DarthPunk wrote:On January 17 2015 10:43 rsoultin wrote:On January 17 2015 10:38 DarthPunk wrote:On January 17 2015 10:29 rsoultin wrote:On January 17 2015 10:24 LightningStrike wrote:On January 17 2015 10:17 Trfel wrote:
I'm back.
LightningStrike's play does seem rather weird so far. First he says that my early vote is scummy, and then says that it is towny. Regardless of whether my early vote was a good or bad play, LightningStrike's view changed on it after DarthPunk and LoneMeow expressed opinions that it was a slightly townie thing to do. And then, asking for rsoultin makes no sense at all. Why rsoultin? If it's to make a meta read, how about all of the rest of us he has played with before?
GlowingBear's opening seems pretty bad as well. In general I don't like claiming, since I feel that town players should simply play well to show that they are town (just like how I don't put very much focus on setups). Claim aside, why would he even sign up for the game if he doesn't want to play VT, the most common role? VT is the core of the game, the power roles are the fluff (especially in games like this one with only two power roles). Side note, I've been cop/tracker twice out of three previous games, and it hasn't been particularly enjoyable for me. VT is a much more enjoyable role IMO, less pressure and you can more freely speak your mind. It was to make a meta read on her and WarWaffle I only played 1 game with him and he seemed to be posting the same way he did in the last newbie game when he was Vet. Damdred's entrance post is all he got atm so I need to wait for a meta read on him. Although rsoultins only entrance was to vote you she didn't explain her reasoning for why she votign for you now. rsoultin welcome to the game now why calling BS on Tfrel's post? If it's a joke vote I can maybe understand but I don't see anything totally wrong with his vote except for the fact that gerpit had not posted yet so (shrugs) What's wrong with it is that the Trfel, before a single word was spoken...in fact practically the second the game started...decided to vote for someone because they are "intentionally playing bad". Not only has geript not posted at all in this thread, but Trfel himself has been very effective with quite minimal posts, and is usually very slow to vote or scumread people until he is sure. It may well be a pressure vote (the second the game started!) but not only is it more aggressive than I've come to expect from him, but his explanation is inherently false which he should know based on his own play in the last two games.Thus, BS meter. Why would scum put the spotlight on himself from the get go for no reason? Shit like this always looks bad but the underlying point ends up being that they don't give a fuck what they look like which is a townie trait because scum ALWAYS care what they look like due to their inherent feelings of guilt. Do you think Trfel is scum? Cause he is my biggest town read in the game so far. What does BS meter mean exactly? Why does Trefel's early vote fit with the mafia agenda? It means that his explanation does not line up with what I know of him. The vote I could really care less about. I think it's preemptive but not alignment indicative. His explanation for it directly contradicts the simple fact that Trfel plays effectively with a low post count, and LS is right in that I don't think I've ever seen him policy lynch. (Note that my vote never made it to the voting thread. I don't necessarily think he's scum but I want him to explain to me why the sudden near-180 in his play.) So you are saying he is being a hypocrite? How does that affect his alignment? Like can only scum be Hypocrites? If so, what is your rationale for that belief? It means that I don't think he actually believes what he is saying. That is different from being a hypocrite, and if true, would in fact make him scum. That's a really weird statement. Show nested quote +On January 17 2015 13:17 rsoultin wrote:On January 17 2015 13:04 Breshke wrote:Soz had irl shit to do On January 17 2015 10:38 DarthPunk wrote:On January 17 2015 10:29 rsoultin wrote:On January 17 2015 10:24 LightningStrike wrote:On January 17 2015 10:17 Trfel wrote:
I'm back.
LightningStrike's play does seem rather weird so far. First he says that my early vote is scummy, and then says that it is towny. Regardless of whether my early vote was a good or bad play, LightningStrike's view changed on it after DarthPunk and LoneMeow expressed opinions that it was a slightly townie thing to do. And then, asking for rsoultin makes no sense at all. Why rsoultin? If it's to make a meta read, how about all of the rest of us he has played with before?
GlowingBear's opening seems pretty bad as well. In general I don't like claiming, since I feel that town players should simply play well to show that they are town (just like how I don't put very much focus on setups). Claim aside, why would he even sign up for the game if he doesn't want to play VT, the most common role? VT is the core of the game, the power roles are the fluff (especially in games like this one with only two power roles). Side note, I've been cop/tracker twice out of three previous games, and it hasn't been particularly enjoyable for me. VT is a much more enjoyable role IMO, less pressure and you can more freely speak your mind. It was to make a meta read on her and WarWaffle I only played 1 game with him and he seemed to be posting the same way he did in the last newbie game when he was Vet. Damdred's entrance post is all he got atm so I need to wait for a meta read on him. Although rsoultins only entrance was to vote you she didn't explain her reasoning for why she votign for you now. rsoultin welcome to the game now why calling BS on Tfrel's post? If it's a joke vote I can maybe understand but I don't see anything totally wrong with his vote except for the fact that gerpit had not posted yet so (shrugs) What's wrong with it is that the Trfel, before a single word was spoken...in fact practically the second the game started...decided to vote for someone because they are "intentionally playing bad". Not only has geript not posted at all in this thread, but Trfel himself has been very effective with quite minimal posts, and is usually very slow to vote or scumread people until he is sure. It may well be a pressure vote (the second the game started!) but not only is it more aggressive than I've come to expect from him, but his explanation is inherently false which he should know based on his own play in the last two games.Thus, BS meter. Why would scum put the spotlight on himself from the get go for no reason?Shit like this always looks bad but the underlying point ends up being that they don't give a fuck what they look like which is a townie trait because scum ALWAYS care what they look like due to their inherent feelings of guilt. Do you think Trfel is scum? Cause he is my biggest town read in the game so far. What does BS meter mean exactly? Why does Trefel's early vote fit with the mafia agenda? rsoultin do you disagree with the bolded question? I couldnt see if you have already answered it or not. I think DP is fairly spot on with trefel and i don't understand where you are coming from at all. Even if trefel is playing different it is possible to do that as town as well. So saying someone is playing different isn't a good enough reason to call them scum. Also GB can make that entrance post as a blue ,VT or scum so people looking into that post are going to go nowhere. I am not calling Trfel scum. I am questioning his intentions, because his first explanation did not jive. ^Next time someone asks me this I am going to flat-out quote this post of myself because I'm getting tired of answering it. I do not think there is actually any danger in the particular way he drew attention to himself if he is scum. ^Again, the next time someone asks me this I will quote this post. I don't really actually like this post at all. Moreso because the big Trfel case-post is like 90% on the first set of posts from Trfel which I don't find as being important at all. Like sure Trfel was bullshitting one way or another. Like I think I know why I was so meh about Rsoultin's case. It comes off as a Lynch all liars policy lynch which I find terribly awful.
If all you're reading is the first part of my case, then I'd have to agree with you that it isn't strong. My gut feel on him from our first exchange was his posts were out-of-character. I'm not talking about a metaread here; I'm talking about the personality that I've come to associate with him. Trying to put that into words is hard.
Please actually take the time to open the spoiler with his giant novel reads post and re-read it. I made comments directly into that post. Whether you agree with me or not, that is the main thrust of my case.
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On January 18 2015 16:45 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2015 16:38 rsoultin wrote:On January 18 2015 16:27 geript wrote:On January 17 2015 10:52 rsoultin wrote:On January 17 2015 10:47 LightningStrike wrote:
I don't think there is a voting thread for this game fyi guys. Also what is the BS Meter? I never heard you use this term before can you explain it please? I used it in our last game, Night 1, with -Celestial-. It means that what he's saying strikes me as bullshit, or BS. On January 17 2015 10:47 DarthPunk wrote:On January 17 2015 10:43 rsoultin wrote:On January 17 2015 10:38 DarthPunk wrote:On January 17 2015 10:29 rsoultin wrote:On January 17 2015 10:24 LightningStrike wrote:On January 17 2015 10:17 Trfel wrote:
I'm back.
LightningStrike's play does seem rather weird so far. First he says that my early vote is scummy, and then says that it is towny. Regardless of whether my early vote was a good or bad play, LightningStrike's view changed on it after DarthPunk and LoneMeow expressed opinions that it was a slightly townie thing to do. And then, asking for rsoultin makes no sense at all. Why rsoultin? If it's to make a meta read, how about all of the rest of us he has played with before?
GlowingBear's opening seems pretty bad as well. In general I don't like claiming, since I feel that town players should simply play well to show that they are town (just like how I don't put very much focus on setups). Claim aside, why would he even sign up for the game if he doesn't want to play VT, the most common role? VT is the core of the game, the power roles are the fluff (especially in games like this one with only two power roles). Side note, I've been cop/tracker twice out of three previous games, and it hasn't been particularly enjoyable for me. VT is a much more enjoyable role IMO, less pressure and you can more freely speak your mind. It was to make a meta read on her and WarWaffle I only played 1 game with him and he seemed to be posting the same way he did in the last newbie game when he was Vet. Damdred's entrance post is all he got atm so I need to wait for a meta read on him. Although rsoultins only entrance was to vote you she didn't explain her reasoning for why she votign for you now. rsoultin welcome to the game now why calling BS on Tfrel's post? If it's a joke vote I can maybe understand but I don't see anything totally wrong with his vote except for the fact that gerpit had not posted yet so (shrugs) What's wrong with it is that the Trfel, before a single word was spoken...in fact practically the second the game started...decided to vote for someone because they are "intentionally playing bad". Not only has geript not posted at all in this thread, but Trfel himself has been very effective with quite minimal posts, and is usually very slow to vote or scumread people until he is sure. It may well be a pressure vote (the second the game started!) but not only is it more aggressive than I've come to expect from him, but his explanation is inherently false which he should know based on his own play in the last two games.Thus, BS meter. Why would scum put the spotlight on himself from the get go for no reason? Shit like this always looks bad but the underlying point ends up being that they don't give a fuck what they look like which is a townie trait because scum ALWAYS care what they look like due to their inherent feelings of guilt. Do you think Trfel is scum? Cause he is my biggest town read in the game so far. What does BS meter mean exactly? Why does Trefel's early vote fit with the mafia agenda? It means that his explanation does not line up with what I know of him. The vote I could really care less about. I think it's preemptive but not alignment indicative. His explanation for it directly contradicts the simple fact that Trfel plays effectively with a low post count, and LS is right in that I don't think I've ever seen him policy lynch. (Note that my vote never made it to the voting thread. I don't necessarily think he's scum but I want him to explain to me why the sudden near-180 in his play.) So you are saying he is being a hypocrite? How does that affect his alignment? Like can only scum be Hypocrites? If so, what is your rationale for that belief? It means that I don't think he actually believes what he is saying. That is different from being a hypocrite, and if true, would in fact make him scum. That's a really weird statement. On January 17 2015 13:17 rsoultin wrote:On January 17 2015 13:04 Breshke wrote:Soz had irl shit to do On January 17 2015 10:38 DarthPunk wrote:On January 17 2015 10:29 rsoultin wrote:On January 17 2015 10:24 LightningStrike wrote:On January 17 2015 10:17 Trfel wrote:
I'm back.
LightningStrike's play does seem rather weird so far. First he says that my early vote is scummy, and then says that it is towny. Regardless of whether my early vote was a good or bad play, LightningStrike's view changed on it after DarthPunk and LoneMeow expressed opinions that it was a slightly townie thing to do. And then, asking for rsoultin makes no sense at all. Why rsoultin? If it's to make a meta read, how about all of the rest of us he has played with before?
GlowingBear's opening seems pretty bad as well. In general I don't like claiming, since I feel that town players should simply play well to show that they are town (just like how I don't put very much focus on setups). Claim aside, why would he even sign up for the game if he doesn't want to play VT, the most common role? VT is the core of the game, the power roles are the fluff (especially in games like this one with only two power roles). Side note, I've been cop/tracker twice out of three previous games, and it hasn't been particularly enjoyable for me. VT is a much more enjoyable role IMO, less pressure and you can more freely speak your mind. It was to make a meta read on her and WarWaffle I only played 1 game with him and he seemed to be posting the same way he did in the last newbie game when he was Vet. Damdred's entrance post is all he got atm so I need to wait for a meta read on him. Although rsoultins only entrance was to vote you she didn't explain her reasoning for why she votign for you now. rsoultin welcome to the game now why calling BS on Tfrel's post? If it's a joke vote I can maybe understand but I don't see anything totally wrong with his vote except for the fact that gerpit had not posted yet so (shrugs) What's wrong with it is that the Trfel, before a single word was spoken...in fact practically the second the game started...decided to vote for someone because they are "intentionally playing bad". Not only has geript not posted at all in this thread, but Trfel himself has been very effective with quite minimal posts, and is usually very slow to vote or scumread people until he is sure. It may well be a pressure vote (the second the game started!) but not only is it more aggressive than I've come to expect from him, but his explanation is inherently false which he should know based on his own play in the last two games.Thus, BS meter. Why would scum put the spotlight on himself from the get go for no reason?Shit like this always looks bad but the underlying point ends up being that they don't give a fuck what they look like which is a townie trait because scum ALWAYS care what they look like due to their inherent feelings of guilt. Do you think Trfel is scum? Cause he is my biggest town read in the game so far. What does BS meter mean exactly? Why does Trefel's early vote fit with the mafia agenda? rsoultin do you disagree with the bolded question? I couldnt see if you have already answered it or not. I think DP is fairly spot on with trefel and i don't understand where you are coming from at all. Even if trefel is playing different it is possible to do that as town as well. So saying someone is playing different isn't a good enough reason to call them scum. Also GB can make that entrance post as a blue ,VT or scum so people looking into that post are going to go nowhere. I am not calling Trfel scum. I am questioning his intentions, because his first explanation did not jive. ^Next time someone asks me this I am going to flat-out quote this post of myself because I'm getting tired of answering it. I do not think there is actually any danger in the particular way he drew attention to himself if he is scum. ^Again, the next time someone asks me this I will quote this post. I don't really actually like this post at all. Moreso because the big Trfel case-post is like 90% on the first set of posts from Trfel which I don't find as being important at all. Like sure Trfel was bullshitting one way or another. Like I think I know why I was so meh about Rsoultin's case. It comes off as a Lynch all liars policy lynch which I find terribly awful. If all you're reading is the first part of my case, then I'd have to agree with you that it isn't strong. My gut feel on him from our first exchange was his posts were out-of-character. I'm not talking about a metaread here; I'm talking about the personality that I've come to associate with him. Trying to put that into words is hard. Please actually take the time to open the spoiler with his giant novel reads post and re-read it. I made comments directly into that post. Whether you agree with me or not, that is the main thrust of my case. No, other than the nul, null, null, type of stuff which is odd, I don't actually like your analysis at all there. I saw that stuff and that's a bit odd imo from Trfel, but I think my reasons on that same post are significantly better than yours. And I found reasons to both scumread and townread him from that post.
Believe what you will. I've made it clear why I think he's scum. If you don't like those reasons, that's fine, but tell me why I'm wrong if you really want to convince me not to lynch Trfel, not just that I'm bad.
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On January 18 2015 17:11 DarthPunk wrote:
#vote: Lightningstrike
I still have no idea how the fuck people are town reading this guy but I choose to blame geript.
He always posts this way. For me lynching him for posting like this is the same as lynching someone for not posting at all. You'll have to do better than that. I'm sorry. May I just point out that (apart from New Years where he was shot dead by mafia) he is friggin always mislynched as town, for these same reasons. -_-
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On January 18 2015 17:46 jarjarbinks wrote:
lol she might not like me for that one. She can get fixated at times and generally doesn't like it when people straight up lie to her. Carries grudges sometimes. Can get frustrated easily.
To get brownie points for that I'll say she is one of my favorite people to have a conversation with and is pretty funny. Also super smart and stuff! lol
xP Nah, it's true. I'm stubborn as a mule. Good to know behind that smile you're not rolling your eyes, wishing I'd shut up, bro. >>
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On January 19 2015 00:59 Trfel wrote:+ Show Spoiler [rsoultin's case] +On January 18 2015 15:14 rsoultin wrote:I did in fact get something out of my questions to Trfel. Please note the progression here. Note the time. Less than a full minute after game start. Show nested quote +On January 17 2015 07:20 Trfel wrote:On January 17 2015 07:14 LightningStrike wrote:
Tfrel why are you voting gerpit right now? I know in pregame he said he would only post 10 posts per day phase 5 per Night but seriously don't vote without evidence that's scum -.- He said that he would only be making 10 posts per day. I personally feel that it will be extremely hard for him to play effectively with 10 posts per day. If he is purposefully handicapping himself with a very strict post limit and that causes him to play poorly and be lynched, that's his fault; we can't allow for players to intentionally play badly. I will remove my vote if he proves himself useful. Best I can tell without him quoting the post he was responding to himself, this was a result of LS' question. Note the bolded reason: policy lynch dependent on Geript being "useful". Show nested quote +On January 17 2015 11:50 Trfel wrote:
Ok, I will respond to jarjar's request for a no lynch. No, we will definitely lynch.
No lynch on Day 1 is bad because it usually leaves you in an almost equally uninformed position on Day 2. Eventually you have to make that first lynch. Yes, town is often lynched on Day 1, but you can still lynch scum on Day 1 with effective play (and a bit of luck).
I will keep my vote on geript until I feel that it is better for me to move it. It is really silly to ask me for rules for what I will do with my vote, since it's my own judgement and there is absolutely no reason for me to try and set rules for every possible scenario. Note the bolded portion again. It went from when Geript is "useful" to when he feels like it...after I asked him whether or not he planned to lynch a policy lynch over a scumread. Show nested quote +On January 17 2015 13:20 Trfel wrote:On January 17 2015 13:12 rsoultin wrote:
Again, you are nitpicking instead of addressing the point of my questions: namely, now that you've gotten discussion started, how serious really are you about that vote? Not at all. To be honest, I expect that geript will be just fine with only 10 posts. His analytical skills won't be hampered at all, he only loses most of his ability to question people and it will be difficult for him to push a lynch. Assuming that others do those two things for him, he should be just fine. ##UnvoteNow that I have clarified this, I would really like to hear your thoughts on what other people have said so far. Huh? What was the purpose of the policy lynch then? Geript had yet to post in the thread at the time of Trfel's unvote. Show nested quote +On January 18 2015 06:25 Trfel wrote:
I do need to clarify that based on how last game (Newbie Mafia) went and my postgame discussions with GlowingBear, I have been trying a slightly different playstyle this game. My opening attempted to generate discussion, and a relatively large number of posts were made about it (the quality of the discussion it generated is more questionable, so perhaps it didn't work out as I intended). The reason I pushed that (false) viewpoint was because I wanted to get as much discussion from it as possible, which I believe I did. As for providing less content per post than in previous games, this is a conscious change I made after seeing how last game went.
Parsed this down out of his giant reads post. I will address his reads themselves in a moment. So now it's to generate discussion. Okay, so his reasons went from: Policy Lynch (Geript can't possibly be effective with such few posts) to he'll change it when he feels like it, to nevermind he thinks Geript will be fine (before Geript has posted once), to nope, just to generate discussion. <- Interesting that this is after GB already tried to explain Trfel's behavior. Was GB just right, or was this a convenient excuse that Tfel could now use to explain it away? Even if you think, as some of you do, that all of this wasn't strange and even thought it made Trfel town (still mind-boggling to me), I laid off him some to see if he came up with anything but a weird-ass policy lynch vote.
Trfel's Reads+ Show Spoiler +On January 17 2015 10:17 Trfel wrote:
I'm back.
LightningStrike's play does seem rather weird so far. First he says that my early vote is scummy, and then says that it is towny. Regardless of whether my early vote was a good or bad play, LightningStrike's view changed on it after DarthPunk and LoneMeow expressed opinions that it was a slightly townie thing to do. And then, asking for rsoultin makes no sense at all. Why rsoultin? If it's to make a meta read, how about all of the rest of us he has played with before?
GlowingBear's opening seems pretty bad as well. In general I don't like claiming, since I feel that town players should simply play well to show that they are town (just like how I don't put very much focus on setups). Claim aside, why would he even sign up for the game if he doesn't want to play VT, the most common role? VT is the core of the game, the power roles are the fluff (especially in games like this one with only two power roles). Side note, I've been cop/tracker twice out of three previous games, and it hasn't been particularly enjoyable for me. VT is a much more enjoyable role IMO, less pressure and you can more freely speak your mind. - LS "weird" for changing viewpoint based on vet opinions. Really? - GBs opening claim. I think someone already mentioned that if they're supposedly doing the same thing, this is an odd read. + Show Spoiler +On January 18 2015 06:25 Trfel wrote:The way that LightningStrike played the start of this game still feels really weird to me. His thoughts seemed to be all over the place and his posting was somewhat random (particularly asking for rsoultin). However, since then he seems to have gained confidence and seems more towny. Especially after glancing through the scumgame he linked (yes I'm aware I played in that game, I wanted to look at it again anyway). Weird-more, towny...null?LoneMeow seems very strange to me. At first I liked his questioning, and I still do, but all he has done is pick on people for small things. The one read he provided was at the request of GlowingBear. I know that LoneMeow is a very good player, and provides a lot of content without using a large number of posts, so I will wait for now.... but I am a bit suspicious. Liked questioning, suspicious...null?I don't see why coolTLname is being scumread right now. He hasn't done very much, but I like the catch on Damdred's scumread of The Shining. I also like the analysis of jarjarbinks. However, coolTLname, while post count and mafia are related, there are many other more important tells. For example, TheWarWaffle made maybe about 6 posts in all of Day 1 last game, and he was town. Meanwhile, Half the Sky made many posts, and she was scum. The main point against coolTLname is how he waited for GlowingBear to vote The Shining before he voted. However, assuming that coolTLname really is new to TL, this makes sense, since it is reasonable for a new player to wait and see how the veterans react to things they bring up. I know that I did this in my first game of TL mafia, and still do sometimes (I wait to see how the first few people react to my case before I vote, in case there is an obvious hole that I missed; perhaps as I improve more and become more confident I will vote without waiting for responses first). That doesn't mean that new players aren't expected to stand by their reads, but it is reasonable for them to look to veterans for leadership at times. (he was modkilled, but I will leave this paragraph in here anyway just because) No reason to include this except to say HEY LOOK I TOWNREAD A TOWN!!I generally like the way that Damdred and GlowingBear have been playing so far. Their analysis shows that they are reading the thread and trying to scumhunt, as well as generating discussion. I did notice that GlowingBear provided a lot of comments on posts in the thread, and I liked those. However, he also provided overall reads, but didn't show why he made those reads (they also didn't necessarily align with the comments he provided). The recent vote on Breshke is a continuation of this. However, I'm sure either of them could play a very capable scum game as well. Not a good Day 1 lynch. What? Between suddenly townreading(ish?) GB after suggesting he was scum earlier, all the back and forth, and the fact he never actually mentions Damdred individually...I feel like I got nothing from Trfel out of this paragraph.DarthPunk is coming up null. I have been waiting for more posts from him to provide more thoughts, but since he hasn't posted in a while, I will share my thoughts now. I do like that he picked up on LightingStrike's weird play at the start of the game. That was the same feeling that I got. However, he hasn't done very much at all except for saying that my opening made it seem that I am town. My opening doesn't really say anything about my alignment for reasons previously stated by geript, however the way I followed it up is more important (more on this later). For the record, several of you seem to be familiar with DarthPunk's playstyle, and I am completely unfamiliar with it, so that doesn't help. Lot of words to describe yet another null read.Geript's first post seemed a bit towny, and his second post seemed a bit scummy (it seemed like a poor use of a post when you are limiting yourself to ten). That's one fewer post to use to push a lynch later. Overall, geript seems fine for now, and is probably a poor Day 1 lynch. Towny, scummy. Null again?!Rsoultin and jarjar, you two need to talk so that jarjar feels comfortable with Day 1. That aside, while jarjar's opening post is pretty horrible, he has given some useful thoughts since then. As for rsoultin, I feel that her play lines up exactly with (my knowledge of) her town meta. I also liked the questioning that she used with regards to my opening. Still, I take note that jarjar said that she is capable of doing this as either alignment. One thing I did find really strange is that rsoultin provided her thoughts using a Damdred quote. I have no idea why she would do this except to compare opinions, but she didn't provide any thoughts on Damdred (I know their thoughts on other players were side by side, but still), and it gave the impression that her reads were less independent. JarJar horrible opening->useful thoughts; Me: Town meta (no one knows how I play scum but Shining and Dammy, lol) -> reads less independent...so...null reads again.
I do need to clarify that based on how last game (Newbie Mafia) went and my postgame discussions with GlowingBear, I have been trying a slightly different playstyle this game. My opening attempted to generate discussion, and a relatively large number of posts were made about it (the quality of the discussion it generated is more questionable, so perhaps it didn't work out as I intended). The reason I pushed that (false) viewpoint was because I wanted to get as much discussion from it as possible, which I believe I did. As for providing less content per post than in previous games, this is a conscious change I made after seeing how last game went. Brief summary of my play in last game: there wasn't much discussion on the first day, and I was busy, so I didn't share many thoughts or put in the effort that I wanted, and then I died. My death provided absolutely nothing for town to work with, since I hadn't shared any thoughts as they were not anywhere near conclusive. This game I am trying to share my thoughts more frequently to prevent something like that from happening again. The downside is that my posts will not contain as much quality content as I would like, but I believe that I have provided enough content. Everything I say is there for a reason (in the case of the coolTLname paragraph, the reason is because I don't want to delete it; not always the best reason, but whatever).This to me is just icky. Huge explanation at the end of his reads as to why he's been sucking this game (sorry, Trfel, but I'm entitled to my own opinions and you've rocked other games) with a conclusion that as long as he's providing content the quality doesn't matter? At least, that's how I read the bolded section.
With that in mind, I will answer geript's question. Show nested quote +On January 17 2015 16:37 geript wrote:
3. @Trfel. Which, if any, of my reads do you disagree with and why? Additionally, are there any players or points that you think I've noticeably missed in my analysis? I (obviously) disagree with your read on me. I was intentionally being stubborn to argue with rsoultin and generate discussion, which (as I already stated) I think I was somewhat successful in. I was not so sure about your townread on LightningStrike at the time you made the post in question, but given some rereading and his posting since then, it seems reasonable. Rsoultin's play does seem towny so far, but he hasn't done anything that I couldn't see him doing as scum. I don't think that jarjar is a good lynch, however the reasons for that are mostly due to posts he made after you posted the read. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. And now, the giant novel of null. Seriously, there is pretty much nothing useful in this post. Open the spoiler and see my comments, but essentially he wrote paragraphs on half the players in this game just to call them null, then defended his lack of quality content. Also, if you can strike through a paragraph you can delete it. Just...yuck. Show nested quote +On January 18 2015 06:35 Trfel wrote:On January 18 2015 06:31 Damdred wrote:
Trfel, that's a whole lot of words for saying you have a couple of town reads rest null reads but you don't seem to have any scum reads? unless I overlooked it.
Are you scum with no scum reads and not knowing how to go about it? Sorry, you're right, that wasn't clear enough. I try to play with really high standards for scumreading someone. I stated this in my last game if you need me to dig up that quote. I am most suspicious of LoneMeow and a bit suspicious of DarthPunk. At the moment, my lynch list would probably be LoneMeow, then The Shining, then Breshke, then DarthPunk. However, I'm not going to worry about (potentially) policy lynching until the deadline is much closer. :/ LoneMeow and DarthPunk who were (apparent?) null reads, with Shining and Breshke (definite null reads for lack of activity)...so, really no scumreads. I'm having a hard time with this idea that Trfel has absolutely no strong town/scumreads at all this game.
There's obviously more in his filter, to include WW and DP later in the game, and some questions. I'm not saying I'm 100% sure Trfel is scum. I do think that he is the most likely to flip scum of the players here, however. My reasons in a nutshell: - His reasons for his opening post kept changing. - No reads. What he does post is a lot of verbage to say he doesn't have an earthly clue and everyone is null. Blech. ##Vote: Trfel I already explained my responses to these points. I will state them again. Note that I need to leave for church in the near future, I will comment on the rest of the thread when I return. I already stated that my opening arguments were a falsified position with the intention of creating discussion. I held on to them for as long as practical. I don't understand why shifting my viewpoint from a policy lynch to "I will use my vote in the way that I feel it is most effective" is questionable. Wouldn't you ALWAYS want someone to use their best judgement with their vote? Whenever someone says that they will be doing something with their vote, it's assumed that they will change their vote if they see a reason to do so, which is basically what I said. My opening was not intended to policy lynch geript but to start discussion. Again, I think that it largely succeeded in that. Whether or not it did isn't really relevant to my alignment.
LightningStrike's play was weird for other reasons. Read DarthPunk's comments on the start of the game. I don't see how you can possibly not call that weird. In particular, he's in the middle of the discussion, and then he suddenly asks for a female. Changing his viewpoint based on what more experienced players say is understandable, though it hints at a lack of conviction in his own opinion. As for not deleting that paragraph, I admitted there was no useful reason to keep it. But I wrote it. I didn't want to delete something that I wrote, especially since it ended up being very correct. I know it's silly. But it's not mafia. I don't generally make townreads, you should know that. At this moment I do not have strong scumreads, however I need to reread this entire game, and there has been a lot of new information since then. I wasn't calling players null, I was sharing my thoughts. I never called them reads. The reason for this is obvious: I didn't share my thoughts last game, and ended up being a terrible liability to town. I felt that I had enough thoughts that, while not being of much use on their own, could help provide some discussion.
+ Show Spoiler [meta] +I guess I need to say this after all. For those of you who dislike newbies using meta, you do not need to read this, however I do request that geript read this since he is (to some level) using meta against me.
Remember, I come to TL Mafia without having played a game of mafia before, forums or in person or however. So I hd absolutely zero clue how anything worked. Before I started playing, I read all of the TL forum guides possible, including the TL XXX guide by Ver. This guide gave me the impression that all cases and reads were done using meta, and the best posts were really long meta posts (see the Foolishness post mentioned in that guide). You can see this being readily apparent in my case against batsnacks on Day 1.
I made cases against batsnacks and Damdred in that game, in which I was 100% confident. Guess what, I was wrong on both. That shook my confidence a lot, and since then I decided that I needed to be better with my reads, hence drastically increasing the level of suspicion required to scumread someone*.
Then I jumped into the Carol of the Bells game. Surely you remember how I basically sat out Day 1 and Night 1, spent most of Day 2 making excuses and whining that the thread was too long? Then I made a case on KelsierSC which was thrown together at the last second and primarily created to prevent me from dying. When I read it now, it actually looked pretty good (ironically the first half, for which I included the quotes to prove each point, was rather weak while the second half which was thrown together without supporting quotes at the last second was rather strong), at the time I didn't know if it was any good at all. I just posted it because I had tried to create cases on several people and none of them had felt strong enough, and I was at risk of being lynched if I didn't show something. It ended up being correct, but I still spent the majority of the game whining and complaining. Surely you don't call that amazing play.
Then, see the Newbie Mafia game. I provided no reads, no useful thoughts, little to no discussion. The one thing I did right is that I correctly analyzed that none of the wagons were mafia, and that the mafia presence in the thread wasn't very high. I got shot on Night 1 for reputation, leaving town with next to zero information. The only good thing you can say about my play is that I realized that all of the Day 1 wagons were town. Geript later said that my play was good in that game for this insight, as well as seeming towny despite having poor posts. Realize that I provided no scumreads whatsoever in this game.
So today, that leaves me with a reputation of being a good player (!) which resulted from making long posts and getting lucky once. Meanwhile, I'm still trying to figure out how to play the game, ie what level of suspicion I need to scumread someone, how fluid or static my reads should be, if/how I should incorporate townreads into my play, how claiming has any effect on anything whatsoever, voting analysis, etc.
*I still dont' know what level of suspicion is required for a scumread. Since I increased the level I wanted, I have made one scumread. It was correct, but this playstyle doesn't seem to be working very well.
In summary, I'm a noob for a reason. I'm still trying to figure out how to play this game. Please stop trying to hold me to glossy expectations based on the highlights of my play while ignoring the many, many shortcomings. I don't see how anyone can possibly disagree with this, but I can provide plenty of evidence if you think it is necessary. I really would rather not, though, since I have better things to do with my time, such as finding scum.
Okay, so let's assume that I was overestimating your ability for kicks and giggles, despite the good play in Carol...you really shouldn't lie to me, Trfel; my brother is 100% right that it's a hole I don't easily climb out of. Damn it, you were the friggin seer in that game and still managed to call out not one but two scum in the little bit of posting you did on Day 2. Okay, digression over. The point of that was once you do lie to me I have a hard time believing a word you say and see lies in almost everything. I know I'm getting hung up on this, but I am hung up on it.
Let's assume that was all pure luck as you're suggesting. Let's assume you really do think it's somehow more beneficial to town to read a giant post of blah with no actual opinions. The LS read bugs me. You and I were both on the same page with him last time, so I know that you know that scumreading LS for being erratic is bad. You called it "weird" when sheeping from him is normal. What makes it more weird this game than last game?
What do you think of LS now?
And please do not tell me that saying something is weird isn't scumreading. -_- At the very least it's implying that something could be scum.
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On January 19 2015 00:44 LoneMeow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 18 2015 12:36 Breshke wrote:
TOWN
Trfel : Trying to change his play seems towny to me. I think as scum he would be more wary of doing this because as we have seen people would notice the change and ping him out for it.
LS : His meta case on me is bad in my opinion but it is the conclusion i thought he would come and to me shows he is trying to work out alignments and stuff not just trying to look town.
Damdred : I liked his case on Cool and the fact that he made people discuss it. Even though we know it was wrong I found myself agreeing with it and Cool would have been my top scum if he was still alive.
Show nested quote +On January 18 2015 15:07 Breshke wrote:On January 18 2015 14:50 DarthPunk wrote:
K I just read all of Lightnings filter twice and he is not really scum hunting at all. Most of his contributions are talking about how many games people have played in/ played with him in and he talks A LOT about meta.
Can those people town reading Lightning please give me some in depth reasoning for those town reads. Cause I can't see it. I read him town for some weak meta case on my being more lurky as mafia. I expected someone to try and come at me because of it and thought it was towny. That's actually a fairly shit tier read though because it isn't actually alignment indicative. Would need to look more into it but i wouldn't call him town anymore. This progression on LightningStrike is is just pure bullshit. "Weak meta case" when he's in your strong town category, really? And if you actually had read his previous town games you would have instantly seen that he's playing exactly like he has done as town so far. I'm fairly sure you didn't actually bother to get any kind of meta on him, just used that as excuse for a town read. Scum like to do that. ##Vote: BreshkeGlowingBear, I am sorry for doubting you 
Lonemeow, where are you this game? If anyone could be accused of being disconnected, I think it's you.
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I was waiting to see if he came up with anything after the read-through.
That was unimpressive -_-
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Meh, I still think trfel is playing badly and I still think he's better than this. A lot better than this. But the Gungan is right that when people start lying to me I get tunnel vision, and trfel started with BS. Trfel, I'm going to lay off you for awhile and give you that breathing room you want. In return I expect you to bring something to the table and give me a reason to townread you. I've had no trouble townreading you in the past. I know you're capable of it.
##unvote
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On January 19 2015 01:50 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On January 19 2015 01:44 GlowingBear wrote:On January 19 2015 01:34 Damdred wrote:
Rs top town for parroting me. Lm probable mafia and is a great ads tvoe And I'm a good lynch because...? For lack of reasons that you aren't not a good lynch. And stuffs. Lots of stuffs.
How's your poe coming geript?
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On January 19 2015 01:57 Damdred wrote:
Rs vote lm with me I feel this one.
I'm thinking about it, Damdred. As an inactive lynch I think it's not a bad choice. I'm seeing nothing of value from him this late in the Day phase.
Can you give me your reasons? I like bullet format that I can then verify myself, personally.
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On January 19 2015 02:07 GlowingBear wrote:
LM is playing exactly like he played in Christmas Carol.
I don't remember much of Lonemeow from Xmas Carol except during Night 1...actually, I remember going through his filter to try to figure out who his fellow mason(s) were...joke was on me cause somehow we had just 1 mason.
He actually did seem to be poking and prodding at a lot of different people. I narrowed it down to 3 possibles I think, then had them give me reads on each other lol. That's all to say he was more active that game, for sure, and quite inquisitive.
His vote on Breshke makes no sense. Did he read the quotes he used to justify his votes? I see no meta case from Breshke at all.
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On January 19 2015 02:19 GlowingBear wrote:
A meta case on Breshke at this point isn't that good IMO. There is no much meta to do on day1, and there is no much meta to do regarding a newbie.
All we have is this idea that he lurks more as scum than as town. But he could be inactive because of RL stuff. I'd rather wait more days if that's the only reason to lynch Breshke today.
I would vote SCUMMY lurkers, and I have yet to figure out Breshke's most possible alignment ATM
I tend to agree with this, GB. I'm not getting scummy vibes from Breshke. Granted, he hasn't posted much, but I don't think he's the best lynch right now.
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EPT
