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I can change it if necessary to lynch Templar. Dunno why I should change it right now when it's GB vs HF though. Besides, I still think GB looks a bit worse than Templar.
Do you have some reason to believe Templar is more likely scum than GB?
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On December 19 2014 00:30 Holyflare wrote:
rsoul's case on gb has been posted for like a cycle and a half already so all he did was repost what he's already said and it somehow suddenly convinced you from voting templar to voting gb
I voted GB yesterday though, not Templar. Until ritoky slipped. When did I go from Templar to GB?
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On December 19 2014 00:26 Holyflare wrote:
literally everything in my case makes him mafia unless you can prove that there is towny motivation behind it so to have a difference in care of who to vote is, like vivax said, fucking weird
The question is which is the best lynch, not if Templar is a *good* lynch or not. Like I said, I think your case is decent.
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On December 19 2014 00:58 Vivax wrote:
Xatalos is clearly squirming after saying that the only reason he prefers GB is that he's pushing scum agenda "more openly", cause it's very important to put an end to his poisonous thread influence while templar doesn't do anything of the sort and only scums in silence, so he deserves to live a bit longer (lol).
Xata if you were town it would be in your best interest to vote Templar cause he's likely to gain more traction than GB which would also prevent your townread HF from being lynched, and yet now you put it like you have reasons to believe one is more likely scum than the other??? What's giving you the feel that Templar could be town?
Nothing, but ... (insert your excuse here)
Ugh.... It feels like you make less and less sense each day. It's not like I have a huge preference between them. Let me ask you a question: there are players A and B, both of whom look like scum. You think A has done more scummy things and should have slight preference. However, you're willing to lynch both of them. Now why would you put down your vote on B first? You can just consolidate on B later if needed.
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While we're at it, Vivax, why is YOUR vote on your "weakest scumread"?
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On December 19 2014 01:25 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 01:18 rsoultin wrote:
What is this about vote consolidation over 24 hrs before eod? What is this about criticizing someone for sticking with a read that they feel more sure of? Is everyone in this thread high? If xata sticks with one scumread over another at eod , in a race against someone he is not reading as scum, then you have a case. you guys make no sense to me. i think that lurking players could be scum too.
Yay lynch the lurkers. yet ill still try to lynch someone im more certain of first. how is that scummy so long as end game im willing to adjust to try to lynch the most likely scum who has a possibility of being lynched? Why dont you guys try to lynch me for the same thing youre badgering xata about?
And everyone is conveniently ignoring xatas point that vivax first argues scum acting like obvious scum then flips and says they never would. i dont even -_- I do not want another lynch like the one that happened the other day where I almost died. I want a nice consolidated thread where I know where everyone lies and for what reasons so that I can judge them on what they are posting. There's nothing wrong with consolidating at 24 hours, 12 hours, 1 hour if you have cases on 2 people. That read on gb has been out there for ages and my templar one has only just come up. Literally all of my templar case is damning but he says it's more of an overall case rather than someone doing scummy things outright but doesn't really explain how it's like that at all when it's not. There should be no difference between the 2 cases if they both look like mafia because 1 has done stupid retarded shit all game and the other has done scummy tootling along in the thread things, both are scummy but he tries to assign different levels of scummyness to people that are just scummy. What's the point other than trying to over explain why you are on someone rather than the other? There isn't really at all.
If you have 3 people who look like scum and you get to decide the lynch, do you just randomize the lynch? I didn't think so.
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On December 19 2014 01:26 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 01:18 rsoultin wrote:
What is this about vote consolidation over 24 hrs before eod? What is this about criticizing someone for sticking with a read that they feel more sure of? Is everyone in this thread high? If xata sticks with one scumread over another at eod , in a race against someone he is not reading as scum, then you have a case. you guys make no sense to me. i think that lurking players could be scum too.
Yay lynch the lurkers. yet ill still try to lynch someone im more certain of first. how is that scummy so long as end game im willing to adjust to try to lynch the most likely scum who has a possibility of being lynched? Why dont you guys try to lynch me for the same thing youre badgering xata about?
And everyone is conveniently ignoring xatas point that vivax first argues scum acting like obvious scum then flips and says they never would. i dont even -_- Well for him they should equally be scum but he finds a reason to lynch one scum first. It's not that he thinks Templar has some townie points to him, it's that he says he isn't pushing mafia agenda openly and doesn't have to be lynched so quickly. I have no idea how that doesn't sound like a cheap excuse to you. For me, mafia is mafia. Whether you vote Oats, Templar or Xata ( HF I'm least sure on tbh, biggest argument for me is still ritoky voting Kelsier and bats dying from pressing that point) doesn't matter to me. Like, the only reason for me to prefer a scum over the other is when I'm more confident about one guy over the other, and not the way they play in the thread, yet that is Xata's argument. He goes like "Oh well Templar is scum too, but cause he plays more passively I wouldn't lynch him first".
Like... why is your vote on HF then? It doesn't make any sense.
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On December 19 2014 02:00 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 01:59 Xatalos wrote:On December 19 2014 01:25 Holyflare wrote:On December 19 2014 01:18 rsoultin wrote:
What is this about vote consolidation over 24 hrs before eod? What is this about criticizing someone for sticking with a read that they feel more sure of? Is everyone in this thread high? If xata sticks with one scumread over another at eod , in a race against someone he is not reading as scum, then you have a case. you guys make no sense to me. i think that lurking players could be scum too.
Yay lynch the lurkers. yet ill still try to lynch someone im more certain of first. how is that scummy so long as end game im willing to adjust to try to lynch the most likely scum who has a possibility of being lynched? Why dont you guys try to lynch me for the same thing youre badgering xata about?
And everyone is conveniently ignoring xatas point that vivax first argues scum acting like obvious scum then flips and says they never would. i dont even -_- I do not want another lynch like the one that happened the other day where I almost died. I want a nice consolidated thread where I know where everyone lies and for what reasons so that I can judge them on what they are posting. There's nothing wrong with consolidating at 24 hours, 12 hours, 1 hour if you have cases on 2 people. That read on gb has been out there for ages and my templar one has only just come up. Literally all of my templar case is damning but he says it's more of an overall case rather than someone doing scummy things outright but doesn't really explain how it's like that at all when it's not. There should be no difference between the 2 cases if they both look like mafia because 1 has done stupid retarded shit all game and the other has done scummy tootling along in the thread things, both are scummy but he tries to assign different levels of scummyness to people that are just scummy. What's the point other than trying to over explain why you are on someone rather than the other? There isn't really at all. If you have 3 people who look like scum and you get to decide the lynch, do you just randomize the lynch? I didn't think so. I just wouldn't really care who gets lynched and for all I care flipping a coin on them would be the best way to choose.
Haha. I doubt you'd end up in a situation where 3 people would look 100% equally scummy. Everyone has preferences even if the differences aren't that great.
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On December 19 2014 02:06 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 02:04 GlowingBear wrote:On December 19 2014 01:59 Holyflare wrote:
this game feels so fucking peaceful when it's full of actual content and reads btw so i might just afk when sicklucker/lian turn up with their usual shit QFT I've wasted too much breath with ironclad logic and people aren't giving shit so I'd rather have fun with interactions instead of bringing newer and newer content. If I'm not mafia, HF, who would you say it might be the remaining scums? templar/oats/xata
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On December 19 2014 02:16 Holyflare wrote:
I mean like I was thinking to myself about gb right and I was like... yeh he's just genuinely awful a lot of the time. Then the more and more confirmation biased he became and the more wifom he decided to direct into me being mafia the more just awful he seemed instead of scummy because he actually believes his shit is ironclad when it's impossible to be
then i looked at templar and i was like fuck that guy is mafia let's lynch him
and here we are
How do you explain these things from an awful town GB?
1) Repeatedly fishing for roles
2) Being reluctant to lynch ritoky/KSC and continuing his bad tunnel on you when they're in danger, but at other times not seeming so confident in that read (during the discussion of you being shot for example)
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On December 19 2014 02:41 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 01:33 Half the Sky wrote:
SL - read your post top of page 200.
- Your third quote from GB - he's using setup here. Anything setup related is entirely speculative. Vivax (I believe it was him) provided an alternative setup to that, so I'm not sure how setup implicates anyone or provides alignment indicative information. I don't think your post is a very strong one when you try and use that.
Holyflare, regarding your case page 201.
- Generally speaking I didn't like how Templar wasn't participatory and had a weaker scumread on him as of last cycle
- The case you have on Templar is very solid altogether, especially using the meta to back it up.
Both appear to have different styles of playing scum in the cases illustrated, and I would think not all scum are going play the same way on a single scum team. I made that point in Student Mafia IV that it was more unlikely that all scummers would play the same way, with two of them out of the way in this game, it is a reasonable assumption here assuming 3 remain.
I could vote for either GB or Templar based on what has been presented.
(Sidenotes:
HF - 10/10 on the contract lol
Vivax - did you really have to post that visual on page 203? ugh) Can you give me a brief summary in own words of why you think that GB is scum? Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 01:38 Holyflare wrote:On December 19 2014 01:17 Vivax wrote:I won't fall for the indemnification part, you vote em or I lynch you  you bad at law bro, the indemnification part is so you can't do anything to me after the contract has ended or claim for things that arose out of the contract Yeah it's a pain to read -.-' Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 01:55 Xatalos wrote:
While we're at it, Vivax, why is YOUR vote on your "weakest scumread"? Oh come on dude. Are you serious? I'm discussing with you to get onto Templar, next thing you do is point out the next best thing you can call an inconsistency Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 01:55 Xatalos wrote:
While we're at it, Vivax, why is YOUR vote on your "weakest scumread"? Oh come on dude. Are you serious? I'm discussing with you to get onto Templar, next thing you do is point out the next best thing you can call an inconsistency. Ok, serious face. Why is my vote on HF? Cause I voted for him before. Does it matter it's still there when I'm talking about switching to Templar? Your guess? Or did you think I'd keep my vote on HF until EoD after asking you to switch your vote to Templar and that I want a consolidated wagon on him and you could help at that cause. Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 01:54 Xatalos wrote:On December 19 2014 00:58 Vivax wrote:
Xatalos is clearly squirming after saying that the only reason he prefers GB is that he's pushing scum agenda "more openly", cause it's very important to put an end to his poisonous thread influence while templar doesn't do anything of the sort and only scums in silence, so he deserves to live a bit longer (lol).
Xata if you were town it would be in your best interest to vote Templar cause he's likely to gain more traction than GB which would also prevent your townread HF from being lynched, and yet now you put it like you have reasons to believe one is more likely scum than the other??? What's giving you the feel that Templar could be town?
Nothing, but ... (insert your excuse here) Ugh.... It feels like you make less and less sense each day. It's not like I have a huge preference between them. Let me ask you a question: there are players A and B, both of whom look like scum. You think A has done more scummy things and should have slight preference. However, you're willing to lynch both of them. Now why would you put down your vote on B first? You can just consolidate on B later if needed. You didn't say you found GB scummier you said "GB is pushing scum agenda in the thread while Templar isn't".
Dunno if it didn't get across well but yes, I think GB is more likely to flip scum. It's not like I think they're equally scummy and GB's scum play is more "threatening" or whatever. It's just that there are some things I have very hard time believing town GB could have done whereas there's nothing towny about Templar, but nothing absolutely damning either (although there's a lot of circumstantial scummy stuff from him).
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On December 19 2014 02:28 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 02:25 Xatalos wrote:On December 19 2014 02:16 Holyflare wrote:
I mean like I was thinking to myself about gb right and I was like... yeh he's just genuinely awful a lot of the time. Then the more and more confirmation biased he became and the more wifom he decided to direct into me being mafia the more just awful he seemed instead of scummy because he actually believes his shit is ironclad when it's impossible to be
then i looked at templar and i was like fuck that guy is mafia let's lynch him
and here we are How do you explain these things from an awful town GB? 1) Repeatedly fishing for roles 2) Being reluctant to lynch ritoky/KSC and continuing his bad tunnel on you when they're in danger, but at other times not seeming so confident in that read (during the discussion of you being shot for example) I highlighted the word for you. If gb doesn't end up voting templar he's literally mafia though. There's absolutely no reason not to be on templar right now even after he said my case was actually good and he knows it will be the person that will be lynched at the end of the day because i'm pushing it.
It's not just that he'd have to be extremely awful as a town player. He'd need to be actively advancing scum's win conditions while being town. No matter how anti-town one may be (see: Kush), it's difficult to believe that he would do everything in his power to make town lose as town.
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Well, I guess it's hard to top Kush in being anti-town... Still GB has systematically done similarly big favors for scum if he was town. It's just very hard to believe. In Kush's case it's still somewhat believable since he went full crazy but GB has at least made an effort not to look *that* bad.
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On December 19 2014 02:57 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2014 02:55 Xatalos wrote:
Well, I guess it's hard to top Kush in being anti-town... Still GB has systematically done similarly big favors for scum if he was town. It's just very hard to believe. In Kush's case it's still somewhat believable since he went full crazy but GB has at least made an effort not to look *that* bad. Can you be more specific? Why is GB a better lynch than Templar? Why has GB done big favors for scum?
1) Role fishing (although not very successful, he has at least reinforced the opinion that there's a merit to claiming roles and perhaps led to some of the role claims so far - which is very useful for the scumteam for several reasons such as aiming NK's and deciding future plans)
2) He's repeatedly attacked HF's credibility for bad reasons and made him into a recurring lynch candidate, even though he's probably just town with some time/post restraints... And then he advocated not shooting HF at night when it could have possibly resolved his long-time tunnel. But it looks like it'd be nicer for him to be able to continue that tunnel. And of course that'd be nice for the whole scumteam as well. (this is assuming that HF is town, but there's also the weirder scenario where they're both scum and GB's goal has been to bring down HF's credibility so that it's not weird for him to live so long... lol)
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On December 19 2014 03:18 Fecalfeast wrote:
Sheepalfeast awakens!
##vote: The_templar
rofl I don't even know anymore
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I was answering your question for the plays by GB that have specifically benefited scum. There are other, lesser, reasons for him being scum (see rsoultin's case for example). Those are the main points though.
I don't see how having more arguments necessarily means that the overall case is better. Quality over quantity. Can you describe the strongest arguments for Templar being scum in your own words? If you convince me, then I promise to advocate lynching Templar from now on.
To everyone still voting HF: do you really think he's scum over GB/Templar?
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Well, Templar is a fine lynch I guess. It also looks like GB isn't happening today anyway :/
##Unvote
##Vote The_Templar
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On December 20 2014 03:58 rsoultin wrote:
Lol wasn't Tube the one going on about getting framed for getting passed a present? I don't think he ever claimed it. So that and his "slip" are your reasons, right, LS?
Alright, I'll go with Templar cause I'm going out and not certain I'll be back for EoD.
That said, I still think GB is more likely to flip scum -shrugs- Templar has some issues, but I could see him being just an apathetic lurker all too easily, unfortunately...
##unvote
##vote Templar
Haha synchronized vote timing
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It is a bit disturbing that Tube hasn't posted almost anything today while he went on a crazy posting streak when he was a lynch candidate... Fits the scum pattern of staying under the radar when possible.
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On December 20 2014 04:07 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2014 04:04 rsoultin wrote:
Build a case? If I get back in time I'll take a look. I didn't see your case in your filter, but I only went back a few pages. Show nested quote +On December 15 2014 13:35 LightningStrike wrote:On December 15 2014 13:34 LightningStrike wrote:On December 15 2014 13:18 The_Templar wrote:On December 15 2014 13:18 LightningStrike wrote:On December 15 2014 13:14 GlowingBear wrote:
Why aren't you voting HF, LS? The HF case doesn't look good in my eyes and he felt very townie to me that's all. So why Tubesock? Tubesock acted extremely scummy since Day 2 after the lynch of 27NB and the massacre of deaths of townies and changed his posting style completely not giving up on sicklucker and me being scum when we were clearly Town as I role claimed Ghost of Christmas Present and him scum slipping telling us that they were 5 mafias instead of the earlier guessed 6 earlier in the thread Here the post of the 6 mafias idea On December 10 2014 00:10 Tubesock wrote:Holy Moses. I didn't think I was such a slow reader but it's been hours and I feel I will never catch up to the thread while taking notes also. I'm trying to get reads, but they are conflicting with people who I feel are pretty freaking smart sounding. Namely, Koshi and Xata. Koshi, since you are here can you tell me more about your HTS read? I feel I'm fairly null/town on her. Namely, I believe that Froggy's plynch statement isn't meaningful. Bunny latches and basically posts it's probably bad but she thinks it's ok. Then scum lists Froggy. Then several people jump on her and later Dam asks HTS about the Froggy/plynch read. HTS replies that it's null on his part but Bunnies scum listing is scummy. HTS doesn't seem to scumlist Froggy. Then a bunch more people argue (kelsierSC, Bats, Viv others). I'd like to know why I should elevate the signifigance of HTS's reads and downplay Bunny's? Also I think people should read this more closely from the OP: On December 04 2014 19:32 Palmar wrote:Setup Information All the roles below can be present in the game, and no role has any sort of a guarantee that it exists in the game. There may for example be three Ghosts of Christmas Yet To Come, no other Ghosts and no Scrooge, yet Marley might be present. In the same sense, there may be Disgruntled Christmas Workers without any Santas or Branch Managers. There may also be multiple instances of the same role. It appears that given bad enough RNG we could have 6 Marlows, or 6 Mass Murderers, or 0. Which makes me wonder why we had a Scrooge claim?? It makes me wonder if any claims will matter as we can have multiples...so why not counterclaim? Here the post of his scum slip of saying 5 instead On December 12 2014 10:37 Tubesock wrote:On December 12 2014 09:53 Alakaslam wrote:
##kelsierSC
Yes YES. He is of the 5. Here is him assuring it's 5 mafias QUOTE] On December 12 2014 11:41 Tubesock wrote:On December 12 2014 11:16 The_Templar wrote:Not seeing Kelsier being mafia unless someone points out why. His cases make sense and he's putting in some effort, but I haven't read the thread carefully. I don't like LS, as he was 'passively' blue hunting and hasn't really done much besides link people's metas in an attempt to look helpful. He did claim a role though... On December 12 2014 10:37 Tubesock wrote:On December 12 2014 09:53 Alakaslam wrote:
##kelsierSC
Yes YES. He is of the 5. 5? Not 6? Please explain why you said 5 ##Vote Oooh let's dance. GB, Slick, and now YOU are here to "pressure" and with your buddy KelsierSC on the wagon. 4 of 5. Is it my 5 or the games 5? Does it matter? No. Oh, wait, you are here to pressure me as your naughty friend Sicklucker's silly ##Vote: Tubesock didn't work. 5 of 5, 5 of mine or the games? Now does it matter? No. Put in some effort. Defend KelsierSC or sink him now. The choice is yours. Distance or closeness. Answer that, should be easy, there is A LOT of content. Then we have a dance. I'll be here. When's your next "test"? How long you here? Huh, you here for 1 response or sticking around to REALLY DIG FOR SOME SCUM???? When KSC did flipped KSC flipped scum and he did say KSC was 1 out of 5 So clearly he got to be mafia at this point which is why I voting for him right now. Fixed formatting. This was my case on Tubesock.
That's not much of a case but yeah, it is one suspicious point about him that's difficult to explain away.
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EPT
