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On December 16 2014 04:44 Fecalfeast wrote:I was never sold on tubesack being town but there was one post that made me wonder Show nested quote +On December 14 2014 07:24 Tubesock wrote:On December 14 2014 07:24 Fecalfeast wrote:
heading to work really soon, any objections to me staying on HF? I do. Me or Kel. Take your pick. Who gives an ultimatum between himself and his scum buddy?
Heh yeah that seems pretty weird.
Overall I don't think he's the best lynch. All of GB/Oats/Templar look worse IMO. Oats and Templar more for apathy/uselessness while GB for pushing scum agenda (fishing roles, tunneling HF all the time but advicing not to shoot him etc.).
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Btw I kind of doubt Templar and Tube are scum together.
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Oh lol. That might actually be a worse slip than Tube's.
##Unvote
##Vote ritoky
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ritoky just needs to flip at this point. The chance for him to be town after all these lies and backtracks is very low.
I agree with the GB case with the exception of his required time to come up with the case. I don't think that's particularly indicative of anything. By the way, it's a good point that his stances have changed a lot and quite weirdly too (for example on you, rsoultin... It does look like sheeping sentiment.)
Vivax, how do you come to the conclusion that someone who has effectively claimed scum should get more time?
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On December 16 2014 22:12 LightningStrike wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2014 22:08 Xatalos wrote:
ritoky just needs to flip at this point. The chance for him to be town after all these lies and backtracks is very low.
I agree with the GB case with the exception of his required time to come up with the case. I don't think that's particularly indicative of anything. By the way, it's a good point that his stances have changed a lot and quite weirdly too (for example on you, rsoultin... It does look like sheeping sentiment.)
Vivax, how do you come to the conclusion that someone who has effectively claimed scum should get more time? rsoultin just made a case on GB a couple posts ago for next Day lynch. How you feel about the case rsoultin made for GB lynch for next Day lynch?
Read the post you quoted or my earlier post (TLDR: agreed).
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On December 16 2014 22:37 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2014 22:22 GlowingBear wrote:
I don't want to lynch ritoky today and maybe not holyflare.
Who's up for another target? Are you serious?
.... What's this supposed to mean GB?
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If ritoky was town, he should have at least tried to convince us of that today. Before that, he should have revealed everything when the day began. Not after being caught lying... He needs to hang now.
I'll need to read for my final exam tomorrow but I'll probably check the thread a bit closer to deadline.
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On December 17 2014 04:39 batsnacks wrote:
How many people are scum reading ritoky but not HF?
If this is true for you pls explain why you are scum reading ritoky.
@ritoky please walk me through from the beginning exactly what happened with you claiming and how much of what youve said is true. Start from when you first received the present, if you even did receive a present.
He continuously lied and backtracked today about his plays. He also disappeared after that without really doing anything convincing for him to be town.
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Well he's played suboptimally regardless of his alignment. It's just too likely that he's scum to let him live pretty much.
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On December 17 2014 11:25 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2014 11:02 GlowingBear wrote:
I forgot koshi died...
With LoneMeow killed by vigi, these were the mafia nightkills:
kushm4sta the Scrooge is dead
Damdred the Joyful Child is dead
Koshi the Disgruntled Retail Worker is dead
Kitaman27 the Disgruntled Retail Worker is dead
We already know that there are 3 shots here (2 mafia kp + mass murderer)
We have to decide if kush was shot by the mass murderer and that either koshi or kita were shot by the banker or banker missed his shot and kush was killed by Marley.
By the way, it seems the first option to me, making LS and Vivax claims (much more LS's, he had no motivation to claim day2) look bad.
It also means damdred was shot instead of dying by the present. Which means SL is scum or scum is setting SL up. Anyway, hard to believe scum would try to soft confirm SL thinking that he would be scum later. Which means SL is very likely to be scum.
Which leaves to the conclusion that SL, Vivax and LS could be scum together.
Considering lian tried to deflect the lynch from both ritoky and HF, I pointing FoS at him.
This will be my last post for now, because I've only for five left this night. You forget to consider protective roles, and I'm sorry to disappoint you, but my claim is completely legit, the mass murderer only has 2 bullets he can withhold, and sl's claim is also most likely legit. Basing all your reads on night actions and setup speculation presuming you knew what they were is veeeery bad play. On the other hand you 180 ° on HF knowing that scum preferred voting Kelsier over him (might be that he asked to be bussed while being in hospital cause he couldn't play though, so his buddies could harvest some cred, that's also pretty speculative). Ultimately it's better to focus on the actual plays rather than all this stuff, although given the difficulty in reading HF's plays it might be worth giving it a shot in his case.
For once I can agree... It's pretty weak to base your reads around night actions you can't even know for sure. And Vivax/LS probably can't be scum (assuming the setup isn't something stupid like Scrooge without Ghosts).
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On December 17 2014 16:37 liancourt wrote:
whats happening
![[image loading]](http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/242/631/382.gif)
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On December 17 2014 18:16 Vivax wrote:
Xata, help me out, these are the possible scummers in my book atm:
Templar
Froggy
Oats
GB
HF
You(?)
Hell even Fecalfeast doesn't seem unfeasible even tho he got greenchecked (I revisited the N1 kills, kita, Damdred, Koshi, all of them suspected ritoky, but most also FF, Kita suspected Oats, and froggy was suspicious-y.
Can you pick 3 you would lynch and tell me who you'd rather see as scum between HF/GB?
Not like you never talked about it but I 'd like to know your present opinion.
Not that much has changed with ritoky's flip. At least 2 of GB/Oats/Templar are probably scum and then we should look at people like Tube... I've yet to see a good reason for thinking that HF is scum. *Maybe* that vote split argument but it's pretty WIFOM and not based on his own play at all.
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On December 17 2014 08:21 Fecalfeast wrote:
I received a present and am opening it.
...
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On December 17 2014 18:39 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2014 18:23 Xatalos wrote:On December 17 2014 18:16 Vivax wrote:
Xata, help me out, these are the possible scummers in my book atm:
Templar
Froggy
Oats
GB
HF
You(?)
Hell even Fecalfeast doesn't seem unfeasible even tho he got greenchecked (I revisited the N1 kills, kita, Damdred, Koshi, all of them suspected ritoky, but most also FF, Kita suspected Oats, and froggy was suspicious-y.
Can you pick 3 you would lynch and tell me who you'd rather see as scum between HF/GB?
Not like you never talked about it but I 'd like to know your present opinion. Not that much has changed with ritoky's flip. At least 2 of GB/Oats/Templar are probably scum and then we should look at people like Tube... I've yet to see a good reason for thinking that HF is scum. *Maybe* that vote split argument but it's pretty WIFOM and not based on his own play at all. Any reason for froggy not being an option? He's like the least active of the bunch.
I'd say he's null at worst. I studied his filter some days ago and left more the impression of newb town than newb scum.
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This push on HF is pretty ridiculous. For one, HF didn't send the present to FF. In addition, nobody knows what each present contains (so there's no way scum would just "send a death present" or something.... I'm pretty sure they'd never send a present to town, I know I wouldn't). I'm also not entirely sure if it's necessary to avoid claiming names, but if he thinks so, I don't see any specific reason to do that for now. Let's just focus on actually playing Mafia rather than WIFOM action speculation.
I agree that Templar doesn't look good. He basically fits the pattern of a passive lurking scum that coasts by just barely avoiding becoming a lynch candidate... Following thread sentiment and throwing suspicion wherever it sticks. I could easily see him flipping scum.
Then again, there are many good arguments against GB as well. My gut feeling is that Templar would fit the classic scum playstyle better than GB, but GB has actively pushed scum agenda in the thread (role fishing, tunneling HF while not wanting to see him flip when it counts and not responding to counter-arguments, shifting reads for the weirdest reasons or no real reasons at all...). I think GB has a slightly better chance of flipping scum atm. Although both may well flip.
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On December 18 2014 22:58 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On December 18 2014 22:57 Xatalos wrote:
This push on HF is pretty ridiculous. For one, HF didn't send the present to FF. In addition, nobody knows what each present contains (so there's no way scum would just "send a death present" or something.... I'm pretty sure they'd never send a present to town, I know I wouldn't). I'm also not entirely sure if it's necessary to avoid claiming names, but if he thinks so, I don't see any specific reason to do that for now. Let's just focus on actually playing Mafia rather than WIFOM action speculation.
I agree that Templar doesn't look good. He basically fits the pattern of a passive lurking scum that coasts by just barely avoiding becoming a lynch candidate... Following thread sentiment and throwing suspicion wherever it sticks. I could easily see him flipping scum.
Then again, there are many good arguments against GB as well. My gut feeling is that Templar would fit the classic scum playstyle better than GB, but GB has actively pushed scum agenda in the thread (role fishing, tunneling HF while not wanting to see him flip when it counts and not responding to counter-arguments, shifting reads for the weirdest reasons or no real reasons at all...). I think GB has a slightly better chance of flipping scum atm. Although both may well flip. not gonna comment on that giant wall i just posted...?
Yeah just read it and the "I agree about Templar" referred to that. I don't think there's any single particularly strong point for him being scum in the case, just the overall sense of him sheeping sentiment, throwing random suspicion and staying out of the spotlight, which I agree with. Well, the fact that his reads have very flimsy reasoning is actually a pretty good point purely on its own.
Are you confident on him flipping scum more likely than GB though?
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On December 18 2014 23:22 rsoultin wrote:
Okay -_- So for those of you who don't like wall posts I will make my stance simple. Most of my points on GB could happen as either town or mafia. Town can flip their reads on a gut read (odd that the one it protects is scum, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything) to someone instead of focusing on genuinely scummy behavior. Town can digress into a "town only gives presents to town" WIFOM for no reason. Town can speculate on set-ups and base scum reads on that. Town can tunnel. All of these things together look worse...or at least make the player look like a bad town player...but there are a couple things that are scum-motivated that have no town motivation at all:
- Continually calling for mass claiming in an open set-up where scum has 2-3KSs.Or calling for certain individuals to claim (carolers, those who were roleblocked, vet)
- Attempting to take credit for a lynch when he did not catch the lie, and furthermore did not vote for the player being lynched, when he clearly had enough time to do so. His defense that he was trying to see who would jump onto a third train was never followed through on...he is back on his old soapbox today.
^ There are no reasons that these are town behaviors. Plain and simple. You can ignore everything else and write it off as a pisspoor town player, but there are no reasons for a town player to do these two things.
HF may well be scum, I don't know. But I haven't seen him do scummy things, and I have seen GB do a multitude. Again, if you want to base your lynch decisions on WIFOM, presents, and set-up speculation...be my guest. Don't be surprised if it comes back to bite you in the arse though.
Yeah I agree. For both of those the scum motivation is strong and the town motivation is non-existent. I like Templar as scum too, though. But at least he hasn't actively pushed scum agenda.
##Vote GlowingBear
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WTF are you saying now Vivax. I really don't get you. First you're saying that scum would almost always simply NK the players who are threatening them and then you say that they'd never do stuff with direct scum motivations in the thread? The logic doesn't check here. If you believe that scum would be always willing to incriminate themselves by focusing on killing the players that are after them, then it should obviously follow that it's not too weird to directly do stuff favorable for scum.
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In the end, that's all WIFOM. If people do really scummy stuff, they're probably scum. It's as simple as that.
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When have I defended Templar? He's a perfectly valid lynch. He just hasn't done things that couldn't be potentially explained by some sort of town motivation (or lack of scum motivation)... Unlike GB. So it's the safer bet right now.
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EPT
