EPTHearthstone Mafia - Page 173
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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kitaman27
United States9245 Posts
![[image loading]](http://images.v-media.eu/Tirion_in_Call_of_the_Crusade.jpg) Endgame Chairman Ray as Anduin Wrynn has been lynched ritoky as town Uther Lightbringer has been endgamed VisceraEyes as town Gelbin Mekkatorque has been endgamed Alakaslam as town Rexxar has been endgamed Damdred as town Aldor Peacekeeper has been endgamed Holyflare as Faceless Manipulator as Tirion Fordring is victorious liancourt as Nozdormu is victorious jaybrundage as LORD JARAXXUS is victorious Lord Tolkien as Valeera Sanguinar is victorious Observer Quicktopic Mafia Quicktopic Google Doc Postgame Rule #1: If you are going to tell everyone that a player is a mod confirmed town, make sure that you actually ask the mod first. There is a huge difference between Holyflare informing you that you are both town and the host informing you that you are both town. I don't want to be too hard ritoky since he seemed to be putting in a decent amount of effort and had some of the best reads in the game, but this mistake really put town in close to an unwinnable position from nearly the start. On the bright side, I'm sure you won't make the same mistake again  I did feel bad for the other townies who were forced to play through the entire game with a warped view due to the faulty assumption. I thought about ending the game early on, but there was still the chance that ritoky would ask for a clarification after the claim was dissected by town. Holyflare had to make excuses why he was still alive all game, so there was also the possibility that town may have simply decided to lynch both Holyflare and ritoky for a high risk, high reward fake claim. Finally, through a couple of weird role interactions, it would have been possible for the mafia kp to be redirected to Holy, though that was definitely a long shot. Holyflare put on a dominant performance. Him being "confirmed" should take nothing away from the mafia victory. Keep in mind that he had to actively mislead ritoky in the mason topic to begin with. After that, he played town like a fiddle absolutely shutting down any discussion that started going the wrong way. Throughout the game, there were times where lian and jay would start to gain steam, but he played an active role in the thread, ensuring that there was always a better mislynch. At MYLO, he took the correct position to force town's hand and you can't even fault someone like VE who went along because it's probably the right decision if Holyflare is actually confirmed town. Even at night, nearly everyone tried to either protect or mason holy, allowing the kp to go through freely. Jay and liancourt also played well. I think the choice to use the Jaraxxus lynch on Obi rather than Circumstance was a risky move, but it definitely paid off by eliminating one of the more outspoken players. liancourt did a decent job staying under the radar, but I suspect that he would have struggled if he ever became a lynch candidate. I think you two would have needed a bit more thread presence if Holy wasn't running things, but things worked out in the end. The one thing to remember is that sometimes pushing mafia objectives is more important than earning town cred. I forget who brought it up, but one of you two started questioning the Holyflare "confirmed town" ability on day three. You asked if the mod actually confirmed both players as town beyond the mason ability. Don't ruin what you've got going for you here. If town is willing to accept it, let them accept it. Don't provide them with the only means they have of winning the game. I'm not really a huge fan of the day one bus. I won't deny that it has merits, but in the mafia's position I think I would have tried a bit harder to steer things towards an alternative. You had the mason quicktopic to influence ritoky, two vote manipulation targets, and the early pressure on Lord Tolkien was partly caused by pressure from his buddies. The reason I would be so hessitant to kill off a scum buddy so early is that mislynches can be hard to come by later on in the game in an all blue setup. It's just tough to get through all the confirmed townies. With so many roles, there is a pretty high chance at least one of you are getting hit with a vig shot or a detective check and you really don't want to end up at something like 10v2 or 9v2v1. I think Lord Tolkien played a bit odd and dug his own grave. Perhaps some of his posts could have been reviewed in the quicktopic beforehand. It is good that you guys decided to bus him before things really went downhill I suppose. Overall the mafia team did a really nice job distancing themselves from each other. There was a lot of scum to scum conversation, which is great. I think if one of you flipped, town would still struggle to draw connections. Most townies were hit and miss with their reads this game. I don't think anyone actually listed the correct scum team at any point in the game, although you guys have a valid excuse. A day one mafia lynch is always a great start, so good job with that. Damdred's decision to extend the lynch by 24 hours at the start of the game was probably the ideal way to use the role. Day two left a bit to be desired. It would have been nice to see Jay put under a bit more pressure earlier on. I think this was brought up by someone in the thread, but the Misder lynch was kinda silly. Why would he lie about himself and his target dieing if he knew he would live? Wouldn't it have made more sense to simply claim the vig shot if that was the case? If Misder was able to convince others that he was town, VE could have used his invention to refund the vig shot, which would have been really big for town. I'm surprised it wasn't even considered. There was also a medic protection that VE could have given to CR. Don't forget to submit your most powerful ability! There were a bunch of townies throughout the game that went into "I quit" mode way too early. Even if you feel that things may be helpless, this really just cements your own lynch and gives mafia an excuse to vote for you for free. Keep giving out reads at this point. Props to CR and Damdred for trying to figure things out at MYLO. You guys came pretty close. Nearly every time a mass claim is done this always happens and I can never wrap my head around why. Town always claims their role, letting mafia know what they're dealing with, mafia reveals as little information as possible, and then town never does anything about the scummy looking players that are unwilling to fake claim. liancourt was let off the hook far too easy here. There weren't too many weird things going on behind the scenes, but the funniest one was the VE/Misder/BH interaction. On day one, VE received the homing chicken and blindly passed it to Misder, the only person who had a use for it. Apparently nobody got the reference to Leeroy's infamous "At least I have chicken" line, but it allowed Misder to use his suicide bomb without dying. That night Misder was targeted with the mafia kp, but BH activated his lightening rod, redirecting the kp to himself. The 1/16 chance that he received the item and the 1/15 chance that he was protected from death resulted in a 1/240 chance that enabled Misder to shoot a townie and get lynched the next day. I was pretty satisfied with how the balance worked out. All blue setups are difficult since there are so many factors to take into account, especially with each role having 3-4 abilities. We had a general idea of how we wanted the game to play out and a lot of the roles were designed to minimize the impact on the numbers. A lot of the protective abilities delayed or redirected the kp and the kp themselves were mostly conditional. I didn't want the mafia team to be overwhelmed with power roles that they were incapable of dealing with. As a result, some abilities may seem a bit underwhelming. There is always the concern about mass claiming in a setup like this, so I wanted at least a couple roles where mafia players would have townie roles that could be used in scummy ways and town players that had scummy roles that could be used in townie ways. One example of this was the Jarraxus lynch, where common sense tells you that no mafia player is going to put themselves in a situation where they have a 50% chance of getting lynched. Another was the Peacekeeper that was useful in certain situations, but could come back to bite you. The mafia roles were designed to encourage outplaying town. The Tirion role was centered around manipulation, requiring an active prescene to be the most effective. Jarraxus gave mafia the opportunity to earn a kp by taking on the extra scrutiny and potentially getting killed off. Valeera was more of a fail safe role that protected the other mafia players with a pardon or night removal, at the expense of making the targets look bad. Nozdormu was thrown in as a more typical mafia themed role seeking to cause chaos and preventing town from putting together a solid plan. Some of the roles were definitely more interesting than others. I liked the "choose one", "overload", and "discard" mechanics, though perhaps a setup where only certain players were blue would have allowed for these abilities to be more powerful. Town did have access to a late game vig, a suicide bomber, a witch (oats revival), the thrall question detective, the ysera super mason, and a fairly strong hunter role. Unfortunately, none of these really had much effect on the game. As you probably noticed, abilities were received less frequently towards the end of the game. Partially this was due to the fact that half of the town would be dead at this point and it would be a waste to create roles that would never be used. I also wanted the last couple of days to be focused more on behavioral analysis since people always seem to get carried away by role analysis at endgame. It was funny to see the copy cat receive the mafia role. That could have ended really badly for mafia since he acquired their night three bonus kp, but he died off before he could use it. The soulpriest was originally designed to kill whoever the medic protected, but during the balance phase this was deemed too harsh and tweaked to include a targeting element. If this actually remained as is, Holyflare would have died on night two from the medic. On day three there was an entertaining exchange: On November 07 2014 13:45 Oatsmaster wrote: so when did the thing you gave to ritoky get made? On November 07 2014 13:49 liancourt wrote: i got it at night 2 On November 07 2014 13:51 Holyflare wrote: huuuuuuuh im confused? On November 07 2014 13:54 VisceraEyes wrote: Got what now? I think lian thinks that Oats is a watcher at this point and saw him visit ritoky on night two. He claims in the thread and then conveniently drops it when he realizes that Oats was talking about VE's invention. lol close call. Thanks again to Wave, geript and crossfire for the help! Hope you enjoyed the game ^_^ | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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jaybrundage
United States3921 Posts
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jaybrundage
United States3921 Posts
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Alakaslam
United States17336 Posts
Never forget this game | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
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Damdred
15669 Posts
I almost had it figured out, hf was so scummy this cycle blah. Totally good win scum | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
Gg though. Well played | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
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Damdred
15669 Posts
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ritoky
United States6851 Posts
i agreed we were mod confirmed when holy said it because it made the game simpler @ the time. regret it now, but oh well. i also fully planned to lynch holy in 4 or 3 as i said. still don't know how anyone in that entire game read jaybrundage as town...guy was the most obvious mafia ever, yet 0 townies ever wanted to lynch him and so i couldn't get it going. i also completely bs'd that divine shield on myself to try to eat a bullet for someone, and then i didn't get shot and it worked out even better for me lol. it's frustrating for me on these forums cuz i have really quality reads, but they never seem to get traction, maybe it has to do with my lower volume posting style. anywayz, sorry for the inactivity late game, got busy at work | ||
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Damdred
15669 Posts
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
Bah. No way I would get the scum team, though. I've made so many guesses and all of them were wrong | ||
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Oatsmaster
United States16628 Posts
I think what really killed town was putting way too much value into the role speculation, like killing misder and cr kinda. And the Jay thing also led us to believe he's town. Like lian was obviously scum by day 2/3 but he managed not to be the scummiest dude due to either our incompetence or holyflares interference. | ||
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Damdred
15669 Posts
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Alakaslam
United States17336 Posts
I probably looked like a jerk to you but 1. I was fucking right 2. I thought the misdirect held the game in my hands and I was still wrong anyway 3. I WAS FUCKING RIGHT EVEN IN MY SPITE BOOYAH | ||
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GlowingBear
Brazil12446 Posts
Huge problem was town blindly following HF =[ | ||
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Damdred
15669 Posts
On November 12 2014 12:11 GlowingBear wrote: Also, jaybrundage's ninja vote at LYLO was pratically a scum claim. Bah. No way I would get the scum team, though. I've made so many guesses and all of them were wrong I was really ready to jump onto loan but it felt like ve was going to ignore me and rit was hereish | ||
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Holyflare
United Kingdom30774 Posts
On November 12 2014 12:11 ritoky wrote: just fyi, i had made a pledge to myself that if i was in final 4 or 3 with HF, i was 100% lynching him on the grounds that i had to talk him into the LT lynch in the mason thread and he was hesitant @ the start, then went full out in the thread. i agreed we were mod confirmed when holy said it because it made the game simpler @ the time. regret it now, but oh well. i also fully planned to lynch holy in 4 or 3 as i said. still don't know how anyone in that entire game read jaybrundage as town...guy was the most obvious mafia ever, yet 0 townies ever wanted to lynch him and so i couldn't get it going. i also completely bs'd that divine shield on myself to try to eat a bullet for someone, and then i didn't get shot and it worked out even better for me lol. it's frustrating for me on these forums cuz i have really quality reads, but they never seem to get traction, maybe it has to do with my lower volume posting style. anywayz, sorry for the inactivity late game, got busy at work If i was town this game i would have absolutely immediately sheeped you on lt and jay | ||
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