Wow so nobody's posted in 12h huh?
SO much care going on in this thread I can't even believe.
Ok I'll post what I found in owb's filter and you guys can muse on it if you will.
On October 13 2014 02:57 onlywonderboy wrote:
Alright, I'm gonna do something unpopular now but I don't really feel comfortable doing anything else
##Vote: No-lynch
I've been busy pretty much all weekend with my Homecoming so I haven't even been able to read the entire thread. Also I thought I worked at 4 so I was going to read it in the morning but apparently I worked from 10-4 so now I'm stuck here till the lynch deadline. I don't feel comfortable calling for a lynch when I don't feel like I've had enough time to read and try to figure out motives. I realize this doesn't help the town very much but making baseless accusations isn't going to help either. Tolkien isn't wrong that I haven't helped much, but I'm actually going to have free time tomorrow and will be able to contribute. You guys only have my word now but that's the best I can give.
Already mentioned this post---apologetic, absolving himself of responsibility. Typical mafia MO.
On October 13 2014 11:59 onlywonderboy wrote:
Alright. First things first, I think the push for Wave being scum is mostly unwarranted. He has a lot of experience so it's easy to get caught up in the idea of "OMG if he's mafia we're screwed because he has the most experience and we have to be extra suspicious of him." That said, his play hasn't been inherently scummy. There have been several occasions where's he's tried to take control of the conversation and guide the town away from certain topics (the modkill discussion comes to mind). I believe that's honestly him trying to move the town in the direction of finding scum instead of limiting town options. He was the most active member Day 1 and I think he did the town more good than harm Day 1, no reason to even consider him for a Day 2 lynch atm.
That said, even though ketchup is the one pushing back on Wave's play the most, I also think he's town. I can see how Wave's play could seem abrasive and confusing to newer players so I think ketchup is just seeing it as scum play even though sometimes it takes a strong hand to lead the town in the right direction.
As far as scum goes I currently believe Asmo is scum. He's been fairly vocal but I don't think he's really contributed much of note. His actions around the lynch just seems a little off too. He switched off Ghandi just because of his long impassioned post that didn't really have that much substance. I think he felt comfortable pushing MB because it was clear a lot of people agreed it was a fine lynch and he could easily fall back on the defense of "he was a lurker anyway" when MoonBear flipped town. He did push MB early, but that was done to call him out for being a lurker which, again, can easily be defended. Pushing lurkers is important but it can also be a tactic for scum to actively look like they are doing town work. Also I don't like his post after the lynch. Just seems like he's trying to play up the fact he's a noob and his actions should be pardoned because he went about the first night wrong. Just rubbed me the wrong way.
This post is the one I pointed out yesterday. Complete parroting of basically everything I had said throughout the game thus far, and had INTIMATE knowledge somehow of what was actually going on with me when so many other people remained suspicious. This is a mafia slip in which he 'knows too much,' allowing him to look really smart/right and buddies up to me---nobody else was able to come up with the correct analysis like he did so the only way he could have known what I was doing is by knowing I was town. Technically this (and the other instances) should somewhat clear me as town as well because scum don't buddy their partners like this and create intimate connections to their teammates but whatever, you guys can make the call on that one.
Now it's important to note who owb actually made contact with. It's usually less likely that scum hold meaningful conversation with their partners because it can be harder to fake. For example his interaction with Alaric is limited to
On October 14 2014 01:34 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 14 2014 01:14 Alaric wrote:On October 13 2014 23:55 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 13 2014 23:29 Requizen wrote:
Maybe it's just early for a lot of people, but this thread should not be this dead during the night. Town needs to be discussing the action for the next day and posting discussion about yesterday's failed lynching.
I have a large post coming soon, don't make me double. Oh hmm. I wonder why it's so quiet. Better lynch me tomorrow guys, I'm only around to spread chaos and discord. Now you sound like day 1 Req.  Other than that... welp. I was going to feel bad about lynching Moonbear (although more because his post upon returning seemed to imply RL stuff in the way of him playing) but then there was this Isaac-styled Night post and I had to laugh. Damnit Dandel. I still stand by my choice not to switch my vote, not because I necessarily think Ghandi is town too but because of the mess that discussion caused. I've got some opinions, but there's potential for them to drastically change once night actions are revealed so I'll keep the analysis/"update" for tomorrow. As for what happened in-between, few things I'd like to point out: Alzadar, not that I think you defending Wave is suspicious, but at this point I don't think it'll bring much. Since our goal isn't to keep the whole town alive but to lynch scum, it's better for us to accuse than to protect. The exception is when we're close to the deadline and we believe the current lynch is a contributing certified-town; the next deadline is 50+ hours away and I personally don't think Wave's in any real danger to be lynched, so we're better off letting that slide for now.  Cixah is most likely certified townie. If I understand the roles well, as scum the best he could do would be to convince a vigilante to shoot a townie tonight, then get lynched day 2 (a poisoner would be able to cancel his kill night 2 upon seeing Cixah flip red). That means we can be sure of Cixah's intentions whenever he posts, and there's never going to be any point to challenge them. However that doesn't mean that everything he says is right. I'm not saying I find your reads useless or wrong Cixah, I just want to remind people so as to reduce the chances of sheeping/bandwagoning using your certified status as an excuse. Wave, as the post I quoted indicates, you're acting a bit contrary to what I expected from you-especially because you're a vet and you've probably dealt with mafia noobs already. Could be you having a lot on your plate lately (you seemed to imply so in the offtopic GD) and I can understand that. However, if you're feeling frustrated because you're getting your experience challenged by the very ignorants you're trying to raise properly, think of it as training for the pebble's teen years. Could also be you exaggerating (because you still don't like the way we play) to amplify the whole situation and get bigger reactions from us. Your and especially Tolkien's behaviour over day 1 made me more aware of these possibilities. In that case I'm wondering what kind of reaction you're trying to cause exactly. (For the record I'm leaning toward the latter, also because being paranoid seems like a healthy mindset atm, I just wanted to make the joke. At least I didn't accuse you of WIFOMing us with the "do you think I'm good enough to mastermind you all?" instead. ;p) On October 14 2014 00:56 Requizen wrote:
That said, I think my focus has been too largely on Wave lately. This in and of itself makes me think Scum, using himself as a distraction for other Scum.
Time to go into filters and weed out my town. I'm a bit perplexed by the association "I pay too much attention to Wave" => "Wave is scummy". I mean, he can certainly try to manipulate people in that direction, but whether or not you fall for it depends on you more than on him, don't you think? Just a quick observation, I agree with your intention to broaden who you're looking at (waiting for a bit more Coma/mordek myself, now that owb came out the woodwork). (On that topic, filters are weird. I looked at everyone's length after people mentioned Soniv said "enough" because I thought he wasn't very present, and he's actually got 5 pages. Oo And I only have 2 myself, despite feeling like I spammed.) Fuck that post ends up revolving a bunch around Wave in the end, although indirectly. Whatever, I still think my points have value so here it is. Seems a little odd you call out Alzadar for defending Wave when I've arguably been defending him much harder.
On October 15 2014 01:28 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 01:24 Alaric wrote:Why not push for them and point out how they're more suspicious than Soniv to you when prompted about him, them? Ultimately the game is about lynching mafia, not "not making mistake" and being fine with lynching a random because you couldn't read him. 'cept for D1, but that's because it's hard to have a definite read... As for Coma: On October 15 2014 00:10 ComaDose wrote:
i am referring to what wave previously pointed out that i voted for ghandi when I was unfortunately otherwise occupied and im unlikely to vote for scum. Uh... yeah. Can't really argue about that, especially since I defended the guys with the "RL stuff" card saying I wouldn't question it. You're unrelated to Ghandi, in that you aren't both scum. However Ghandi's still the "easy" solution because he's been attacked so much, and without Asmo's case on soniv (and Tolkien dying, which seems to have removed a cushion between Wave and Soniv (or just made it one less person for Wave to argue with so he does it harder with the remaining ones )) he'd still probably be the current bandwagon... alongside you. I'd say I value consistency, but your circumstances, that make your vote on Ghandi less suspicious, now say that it's not a strong vote either because you didn't have much time or material to be 100% sure of your initial call, eg. circumstances have changed between then and now. If you didn't have the convenience of Ghandi to place your vote, who would you investigate/pressure? And why? (I know the arguments against Soniv are solid but if he's your pick it's going to look like a bandwagon... ) Not as if it's been completely unwarranted, sometimes the easy option is the right option.
One liners, both useless answers/non-contributory.
He draws a lot of attention to both Jeff and Req, holding a large conversation with Req specifically. Given the distance that Req/owb seem to have taken in their playstyles I'm not so inclined to clear req based on his interaction with owb because it simply gives them more opportunity to show off their differences, but still, their long conversation makes it slightly unlikely.
I think Jeff looks better for the way owb pushed for an interesting reason. It doesn't look as though owb had intentions to seriously bus this game based on the targets he chose. 'Now Wave', you ask, 'he pushed Asmo before and you think Asmo is scum! Wouldn't that be bussing?' Not necessarily.
The difference between this post on Jeff
On October 14 2014 12:04 onlywonderboy wrote:I'm pretty comfortable leaving my vote on Ghandi. He's been fairly active since Day 2 started but some of his post have been really terror. The bickering with Wave didn't really produce anything of worth. Also there's this gem. Show nested quote +On October 14 2014 10:29 GhandiEAGLE wrote:On October 14 2014 10:22 WaveofShadow wrote:
Ratio of useful posts to shitposts
It's about 1:4
Let's see how many of those are specifically aimed at me to make me mad:
15 out of <60 which is like 1/4 of your total posts.
Like I said earlier, if you're not helping the town you're against it.
And your 'unfortunate timing' is pretty horseshit too because I could see you posting in OT in between. Now You're assuming me blaming you at all is a post attempting to make you mad. This was the case in the first 24 hours. This was not the case after that. "If youre not helping town youre against it." And with that attitude you will have lost four townies before even getting on the right track. Don't be an idiot, we need a good lynch tonight.My last post in OT before my read post in Maf thread was over 5 hours ago. And they were throwaway posts I was able to add in between classes. I have no idea how that reflects on my circumstances. You're clearly trying to go for my throat here, but you also ignored my question while in 5 minutes being the first to respond to LT's death. It was immediately with a vote for me, quick and dry. It was also a massive flip from who you were suspecting earlier. I don't know how this isn't completely suspicious to some people, but frankly Wave is playing you guys. Maybe not because he's scum, but he's wrong and posting inconsistent things combined with claims that aren't actually supported. Oh and he either ignores all my questions, or sweeps them aside in order to keep the target pointed on me. Not sure how he takes Wave's textbook definition of good mafia play and turns it into a negative...Also he goes onto trying to make reads once it's clear discrediting Wave isn't going to work. Show nested quote +On October 14 2014 11:10 GhandiEAGLE wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Gonna hold off voting Coma for awhile, it doesn't really trigger any discussion. He's more of a fallback if nobody gains traction.
Asmo been super lurking as well, he says he's going to post something soon-ish tho so I'm holding off there too.
Alzadar really shaped up his posting recently, I think he's trying to prod people into talking. If anything he's being almost too guarded in his questions to people. Maybe to keep suspicion off of him? Will watch that. As of right now hes town to me though.
Cixah is clearly guilty. No other possible conclusion.
Also OWB is really escaping a lot of notice here. Clearly hes just more lurky than Coma. But seriously, that's suspect as well.
Req says town to me from his posts, I dont see anything sinister, just struggling to adjust to the game at the beginning (I can relate).
Wave, I think you're completely wrong, and your arguments make little sense (or just none at all), but I think you have good points said in your defense, and that's enough to put you right around where Soniv is on my scumscale.
Asmo is still my #1 suspect because of the shittypost-bandwagon-lurker combination, but again, he says he's gonna post soon, so I'll give him some breathing room.
Alaric and Ketchup are pretty clearly town to me. They have long, thoughtful posts that, while not always correct or well-reasoned, steer us into good discussion and prevents us from tunnel-visioning (except that one crusade Ketchup had about Wave).
Wave also seems really desperate to vehemently defend himself when his livelihood is even slightly threatened. But im still holding off. I don't feel like he really made any sort of useful insight despite the length of his post. I can basically sum up the entire post saying lurkers are scummy and people that contribute aren't scummy (unless you are Wave). Also we already criticized Req for just putting out a list of thoughts on everyone (although maybe he didn't read that post :p). So in general I'm just not a huge fan of his play so far into Day 2. That said it's early and I'm not locked into this vote. I've mentioned my suspicions of Asmo before so I'm interested to hear what he has to say once he gets back into the game.
and this one on Asmo
On October 13 2014 11:59 onlywonderboy wrote:
Alright. First things first, I think the push for Wave being scum is mostly unwarranted. He has a lot of experience so it's easy to get caught up in the idea of "OMG if he's mafia we're screwed because he has the most experience and we have to be extra suspicious of him." That said, his play hasn't been inherently scummy. There have been several occasions where's he's tried to take control of the conversation and guide the town away from certain topics (the modkill discussion comes to mind). I believe that's honestly him trying to move the town in the direction of finding scum instead of limiting town options. He was the most active member Day 1 and I think he did the town more good than harm Day 1, no reason to even consider him for a Day 2 lynch atm.
That said, even though ketchup is the one pushing back on Wave's play the most, I also think he's town. I can see how Wave's play could seem abrasive and confusing to newer players so I think ketchup is just seeing it as scum play even though sometimes it takes a strong hand to lead the town in the right direction.
As far as scum goes I currently believe Asmo is scum. He's been fairly vocal but I don't think he's really contributed much of note. His actions around the lynch just seems a little off too. He switched off Ghandi just because of his long impassioned post that didn't really have that much substance. I think he felt comfortable pushing MB because it was clear a lot of people agreed it was a fine lynch and he could easily fall back on the defense of "he was a lurker anyway" when MoonBear flipped town. He did push MB early, but that was done to call him out for being a lurker which, again, can easily be defended. Pushing lurkers is important but it can also be a tactic for scum to actively look like they are doing town work. Also I don't like his post after the lynch. Just seems like he's trying to play up the fact he's a noob and his actions should be pardoned because he went about the first night wrong. Just rubbed me the wrong way.
Are the fact that in the Asmo post he doesn't add any new information to it, just reiterates the stuff others said, while in the Jeff post he pushes HARDER, adding points about how Jeff turned my own stuff against me and whatnot. If owb isn't looking to seriously bus (as can be seen by the hard push on soniv earlier) then if Jeff is scum, posting something like this could get him lynched, especially when he was under crazy scrutiny. Jeff looks much better for this.
On October 15 2014 03:08 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 02:59 Requizen wrote:On October 15 2014 02:51 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 15 2014 02:48 Requizen wrote:@Soniv Did you purposefully ignore the post I made about you 5 posts after that? On October 14 2014 04:37 Requizen wrote:
I don't know on Soniv. Again, like Alz, his posts aren't scummy, but they don't feel squeaky clean. I like how he was on MB from early and stuck with it, so he wasn't really flip-floppy. Even if it was wrong, I like how he put down a feeling and then stuck with it rather that throwing his vote wherever.
But, his discussions (while moving the thread along), rarely give any of his own opinions. Other than his read on MB and an early read list, most of it is just talking about other player's reads until the end of the day rolled around. This doesn't scream scum to me, but it's very observer-like and lurky. Being around, talking without really drawing attention or saying anything that jumps can be a very effective stealth tool. Like ketchup, you are "reading my filter" but ignoring the posts that make you look incorrect. My reads at this point should be disregarded. My vote D1 was not wasted, because it would not have affected the end result of MB's lynch one way or another. Is there a particular reason you and ketchup are both taking the same steps to paint me in a bad light? Because we're noticing the same things? I didn't ignore that post, it only reinforces my point - you aren't giving a read on me. "his posts aren't scummy, but they don't feel squeaky clean" "this doesn't scream scum to me". These are very non-committal opinions. You want my opinion? You look scummy as fuck. Moreso than Coma. ##unvote
##vote Requizen You blatantly left it out of your "in depth investigation" to make me look like worse. I haven't changed that stance. I don't have a good read on you. My instincts don't scream mafia but you haven't posted enough helpful things to be confirmed town. You are 20%~30% scum, which doesn't mean anything. If the votes go towards you, I have no problem letting them go through because I don't think you're confirmed town like some other people. If they don't, that's fine too, I think Wave is a bigger threat (for reasons listed multiple times). I am not flipping on things. My opinions have formed slowly and changed slowly, and I have been outspoken and honest about it every step of the way. Ignoring that and trying to utilize misinformation makes you look bad, and I'd rather not have to pursue you. As an aside, I'm removing my vote from ketchup since, as I said before, I don't think he's scum and I just jumped on him because he was on my case. I hope this reasoning is clear enough that it can be referenced in the future without someone twisting my actions to try and draw attention off of themselves. ##unvote ketchup vote was still a shitty play. Revenge voting doesn't really help town. It was distracting, but I'm glad you at least dropped the vote now. You that willing to commit to a Wave vote? I've been pretty vocal that I think Wave is town, but I wonder what other people have to say since he's been away for a while, wonder if people's opinions have changed.
lolol tossing feelers out to see if Req's shit would take hold.
Again, I wonder about Req because of this
On October 15 2014 01:55 onlywonderboy wrote:
Ah okay, sorry about the misquote. I think you're misreading Wave's attempts to lead the town as being manipulative. I think is a direct result of him trying to guide the newbs which actually backfired on him.
It also sounds like you're getting really down on yourself because the game isn't going as you hope. That's kinda how I felt during my newbie games. I'm leaning towards Req just being discourage town rather than scum.
Attempt to buddy just like me or scum trying to keep the heat off/make his partner not look so shitty? I think the second option is less likely given that Req didn't seem like he wanted to give up on me even after owb gives him an out. Makes req look town.
On October 15 2014 13:46 onlywonderboy wrote:
Couple things.
I'm in the camp that Req is just frustrated town. Call me out for parroting or whatever but I honestly think he's just upset with the game because he's trying to contribute and he just gets called scum for it. Coming from personal experience with my own newbie mafia games I can say I felt similarly.
That said I don't think Soniv is scum for pushing him so hard. Him and Wave are interestingly enough two sides of the same coin when it comes to Req. Wave is ready to believe his play is just shitty town based on his personality while Soniv is worried we're falling into a trap and giving him too much leeway because we know him. If Req has tricked us like this it would be some pretty good scum play.
Wasn't a fan of Asmo's return post but that was picked apart pretty clean by Wave and Soniv. Wish he has been able to post more that the one main rebuttal.
That bolded post. Look at how he nonchalantly adds Asmo at the end who was a scumread of his earlier but makes no effort to actually analyze him rather than the continued stuff on Soniv being scum. Distancing 101.
Now for what I said earlier:
On October 16 2014 03:16 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2014 03:09 WaveofShadow wrote:##unvote
##vote: mordek
This interests me actually. Mordek you say you haven't been politician-y, but On October 12 2014 01:53 mordek wrote:
Ok. I've been trying to re-read and trim my post up so I don't have any distracting details. My main thought is I can't see Wave making that big post which obviously creates a confident and open atmosphere right from the start, absolutely a Town move, and then it's some huge reverse psychology thing. We're going to find out soon if he points us in the wrong direction as the leader.
I don't have great reads on scum, I'm not sure what makes a good read vs. a feeling. So far Swaglord has been contentless, changes the subject, or is just unrelated and doesn't build any conversation. Also owb has not posted yet, do we know if he has a good reason not to? On October 12 2014 05:03 mordek wrote:
Ok I may have posted too hastily. If Cixah is another role that we should be worried about as town, he'd only have one night to do whatever it is because he wouldn't be able to confirm the next day. I can't imagine this being worth the risk over just trying to talk people out of voting for him. On October 13 2014 05:21 mordek wrote:
Look I'm fine if I've made a misread. However in one post I'm almost confirmed town and in your next post my style is newb mafia. You also managed to miss a post that quotes you twice? On October 13 2014 05:50 mordek wrote:On October 13 2014 05:47 Lord Tolkien wrote:On October 13 2014 05:28 mordek wrote:On October 13 2014 05:06 mordek wrote:
I'm going with my gut. I'm fairly sure Wave is town. I've been uneasy about Tolkien the whole time. We're going to learn a lot after the first day. Prove me wrong to change my vote.
##Vote Lord Tolkien On October 12 2014 01:53 mordek wrote:
Ok. I've been trying to re-read and trim my post up so I don't have any distracting details. My main thought is I can't see Wave making that big post which obviously creates a confident and open atmosphere right from the start, absolutely a Town move, and then it's some huge reverse psychology thing. We're going to find out soon if he points us in the wrong direction as the leader.
I don't have great reads on scum, I'm not sure what makes a good read vs. a feeling. So far Swaglord has been contentless, changes the subject, or is just unrelated and doesn't build any conversation. Also owb has not posted yet, do we know if he has a good reason not to? I don't know how this is a bandwagon. Me and Wave voted for you and now I'm hopping on a wagon? You're not the only one. Just check the votecount. Your reasoning feels weak. So does wave's but not lynching him D1. Ok, so I see you posted this twice so I'll respond. This is D1, I've tried to push and poke a couple things and observe. I haven't seen any better argument for someone being scum. Honestly, point me to who you think is scum and why and I'll vote if it makes sense. I'm not changing my vote just because Wave unvoted either. On October 14 2014 03:12 mordek wrote:
Wow epic fail on rewording that second sentence. "This tells us nothing of who are next lynch target should be." Period, no leftovers from the edited prior sentence. Wow that looks dumb lol. A lot of your posting just doesn't look great at all. Gives me bad feels. Well this post has certainly piqued my interest. Doesn't mean he's scum for sure but I'm alright putting the ball in his court right now. ##unvote
##vote: mordek
On October 16 2014 04:02 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2014 03:52 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 16 2014 03:34 Alaric wrote:Soniv:+ Show Spoiler +About the key thing, this is how I view it (from reading today's filters only):
- before Ghandi switched and I voted, it was 6-5 for you. A tie would be against Ghandi I think, haven't checked hard, but iirc owb has the oldest post, and he isn't likely to switch, so for you to die people needed to switch. ComaDose certainly won't because he seems convinced that killing Ghandi will somehow clear him (and I think however Ghandi flips there are strong arguments against him either way, part of why I don't think lynching Ghandi will produce much), Cixah and ketchup don't look like they would either (ketchup offered a hand but I dunno how firm he is).
That means that Wave, because he tends to be listened to, and because he's one of the rare people not completely set yet, has the power to either force a tie or break it (even more so had he known I'd vote against you, that was 6-6 but Ghandi switched while I typed).
As for lynching you, sure there's a risk you'll flip green.
But not only do I think it's a tiny risk, we also stand to gain much more from your flipping (whether red or green, already said I'm coming for Asmo if you flip green myself) than Ghandi's. Both your posting has been a bit poor today, but I could easily attribute that to both of you being in a kinda deadlock for more of the day; and if given more liberty, I'm much more afraid of you leading us astray than I'd be of Ghandi. Even if he's scum he doesn't push us toward wrong lynches (that pretty much everyone ignores him doesn't help).
As of now we can't know which one of you is red, or if you aren't even both red (I don't see it as likely but it's not impossible), but I'm pretty damn sure one of you has to be scum, and your flip will give us more stuff to catch the remaining 2-3.
Add to that that I won't be around for the deadline in case of last minute shenanigans/twist (if you want to claim do it in the next 4 hours), and that I didn't think the situation could change (I'll admit I'm wrong, the new mordek wagon proved that with a perfect timing, uh), and I didn't see the point to fish for "maybe scum" instead of "very probably scum + info on the others".
If you give me a better lynch? I'll bow, and I'll switch to that. But my reasoning was (and still is, unless twists like a mordek slip or something) that it's between Ghandi and you tonight, and that you are the "better" lynch. I'm so confused how you think my posting has been bad today. You had a town read on me D1, and my posting was so much worse D1, and I'm happy to be the first to admit that. Once again, I'm feeling like my entire play today has been largely ignored. I have tried to hand you guys a better lynch, and it was completely passed off as everyone giving Req a pass for being Req. I also now believe that Jeff is scum (something I did not think was true D1), and I've tried to push him as well. Is this going to be the theme of the game? Every day it's going to be Jeff vs. someone that ends up flipping town, only to continue it on the next day? You think you're going to get information from my flip, but all you'll find out is how god damn wrong you've been and how much time you've all wasted. On October 16 2014 03:31 mordek wrote:
I like how Soniv dodged the claim or your getting lynched questions too. Admittedly he could be in meetings but let's not forget. ? What did I dodge? I can get behind what Soniv is saying here. I've already said I think he's played better than Jeff during Day 2 so between the two I'm still going to vote Jeff. In fact ##Unvote
##Vote GhandiEAGLEThe Jeff flip will give us insight into Soniv's alignment and we can decide whether or not we trust him from there. If they are both mafia it would be a pretty masterful bus.
These posts came one after another (with mordek posting a decent defense in between) but owb MAKES NO MENTION OF IT when changing his vote over to ghandi. ketchup questioned this at the time as well. I put that vote on mordek not to question him, as I mentioned earlier, but because I had a strong townread on him at the time and wanted to see who else would jump on a bandwagon. owb didn't disappoint. The fact that he jumped off so unbelievably quick could show that owb was afraid it was gaining traction and didn't want mordek going down.
On October 16 2014 05:31 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2014 04:54 GhandiEAGLE wrote:On October 16 2014 04:42 ketchup wrote:
I've repeatedly asked ghandi on how he sees himself helping town, but he has yet to respond. Have you? Maybe I've been misinterpreting your question. In the brief periods of time where I haven't had to constantly defend myself, I was doing a couple other things, like looking through the forgotten lurkers like Mordek. I found some stuff, talked about it, and had a couple people agree with me. I said it wasn't anything more than a vote meant to get Mordek talking rather than distracting people or lynching people. After that though, I noticed that OWB switched his vote again. He's actually done this a large number of times day one; he's got a very fast trigger that he's been pulling. I remember saying he was a lurker, and then him immediately deflecting it by acting appalled that I'd suggest it and then snap-voting against me. He seems very eager to get on a bandwagon early, so that he can be on the train but never arouse suspicion. He never actually instigates anything, and almost never posts anything but defense (or his quick switches). That said, I'm willing to take my vote off of Mordek now. Soniv is still Scummer #1 in my book, but OWB's flipping is damn suspicious and he's also been very unproductive. Asmo too has been sketchy, though to a lesser degree. ##unvote Can't tell if I'm just falling into a defend myself again but I don't want to just let this post sit. What day one flips are you even talking about? I was away for most of the game and I voted no lynch because I wasn't confident in my reads due to the lack of time I was able to put into the game. Early I was clear I thought Wave is town and Asmo is scummy (which I still believe). The most flip floppy thing I've done is the mordek vote which I already explained. If hadn't already switched back to you I think this post would have made me. [/b][/b]
This exchange doesn't read like scum on scum.
Note another nod in asmos' direction and still no real analysis/explanation in days.
He has a TON of interaction with Req s
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Oops I didn't mean to post that early.
I mentioned his jumping on Alaric when I barely posted something as well and here were his responses
On October 16 2014 06:11 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2014 06:05 WaveofShadow wrote:Coma's absence. And it's entirely possible that owb really has been coming up with all of that shit and I've simply beaten him to the bunch multiple times, but he posts stuff like this: On October 16 2014 02:43 onlywonderboy wrote:On October 16 2014 02:31 WaveofShadow wrote:
Like what WAS with all the greenfont shit?
And why does he feel the need to point out the extremely obvious, that there is a bus going on (unless both soniv/Jeff are town and the scum are in the rest of lurk city, or we've been massively fooled by, say, himself or ketchup).
I think a lot of us have actually let Alaric skate by on early towncred without looking into him in a long time.
Either that or the quiet is making me paranoid. I hate being in charge of lynches. Good practice though. Probably the quiet :p Although, I think the fact that he hasn't put down a vote is more damning than the shitty green text. Maybe it's a timezone thing, but I wish he would just commit, because the longer he waits it just seems like he's waiting to vote when it would draw the least suspicion on him. When I just barely post the slightest bit of suspicion on Alaric, he jumps on it and takes it further when there is no mention of Alaric ANYWHERE in his filter previously. Uhg. I'm trying to stay active and I happened to read your post in class and that got me thinking about Alaric. I realized he hadn't voted yet and I thought it was weird. Hey, at least I didn't just agree he was scummy because of his weird green text questions. I mean I could have just not said anything but I don't see how that helps us catch scum.
On October 16 2014 06:23 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2014 06:18 WaveofShadow wrote:
In fact, I never said he was scummy to begin with, just that we've all been letting him slide. That is true, you never said that specially, I just interpreted that as you implying we needed to keep an eye on him more which you wouldn't have said if you thought he was leaning town.
Not particularly strong and again I think it makes Alaric look just a smidge better.
Looking at Asmo's filter real quick:
Here is his ONLY mention of owb in his entire filter.
On October 15 2014 10:40 AsmodeusXI wrote:Okay. Back and ready to fight on. After my post, Soniv's made decent plays as both scum and town (WIFOM, I know, just bear with me). He's marginally addressed my post: not drawing too much attention to it, but also no hard denial/OMGUS. That's a town reaction, especially so far from deadline. He's also found someone to go after, which is the town's good work should Req bleed red. That's another seemingly town interaction. However, the manipulation factor is still relevant. At this point, we all kinda know how Req plays: volatile states, prone to lashing out. It's emotional play because Req's a sensitive dude (and this is not meant to offend sir), and it's easily manipulatable (even ketchup got his goat, and that was probably unintentional). If Soniv wants to cover his tracks well, the best way to do it is to set off Req since it's unlikely he'll be able to get a rise out of Wave at this point, and no one else has proven to be so easy to control (again, don't mean to offend buddy). That also fits in with the "fake anger" that Alaric pointed out: play an emotional game, get easy emotional feedback. I think the intent of this is to get the focus away from Soniv and onto Req, and I think it's working. Which is dangerous (Wave sees that). Furthermore, Soniv's other reads are still lurkers like Coma and Ghandi. I genuinely don't believe that lynching a lurker does the town that much good atm. I think the scummers are at least more active than Coma, especially since they had a pretty great first cycle. When you're winning, you stay more invested. I believe any given lurker is most likely to be town, including Coma, despite his lack of good content (which pisses me off a lot, but doesn't necessarily make him scum). Unfortunately for those of us on Soniv's trail, Jeff is another story. Jeff's posting looks fishy as fuck, fishy enough that most people smell stink coming from his direction, real or not. What's interesting to me about Soniv's perspectives is that there have been indications that (after Req) Soniv's next target is Coma, and not the more egregiously suspicious Jeff. For posterity (and I acknowledge this may have changed): Show nested quote +On October 15 2014 07:20 jcarlsoniv wrote:On October 15 2014 07:03 ketchup wrote:
Err just to make it bold:
##Unvote: Soniv
##Vote: Req at least someone is coming to their senses On October 15 2014 04:15 WaveofShadow wrote:
Soniv the best thing you can do right now if you're town is do what you haven't done in like fucking ages.
Provide some reads.
HELP OUT THE TOWN in some way.
If you die and flip green this way we'll have a whole bunch to work with
Your vote/case on Req doesn't help you much in my eyes. There are a lot of people in this game still, and I have no idea what you think about most of them. When I think someone is town, I say that they're town. When I think someone is scum, I say that they're scum. There's no use in me stating that I have null reads on all of these scummy as fuck lurkers, just as you do. I have already said that my town reads are you, ketchup, 6ah (obviously), Alaric, and probably Alz. You know my biggest current scum read right now is Req, and somewhat lesser than that is Coma. I thought you were on to something with Asmo until he made his case on me; now I'm not so sure. The rest are a bunch of god damn lurkers that I don't know how to get a read on. I'll probably put my eye to one tonight to try and glean any semblance of usefulness. This whole thread feels like town yelling at each other for the most part while a bunch of people are watching. There's my stupid fucking list post, all of my reads can be found in the thread, as I know for a fact that I've said them all. Speaking of scummy as fuck lurkers...Jeff, where the fuck are you To me, this says that Jeff is sacrificial scum: the scum (read: Soniv) know he's going down eventually, but they're going to try and put off a lynch on him until they get as many lurky town-peeps as possible. Definitely Coma, but I don't know if it ends there. Maybe Soniv rounds back on Alz (but here my reasoning gets less event-based, so let's avoid mere ideas). @Cixah - I think you can gather from my thoughts that I think Req is misguided town. If he's scum, it's a damn masterful job. owb is less clear. Not a lot of content, lots of questioning without a real opinion in a while, and his last vote with an OMGUS against Jeff. That doesn't look very town. Show nested quote +On October 14 2014 11:29 onlywonderboy wrote:On October 14 2014 08:46 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
also OWB is lurking so fucking much, holy shit
pls post dude Holy shit I might just lynch Jeff for this post. I was more active than him during the first half of the night phase and then he comes out of no where and makes this post. Which fine, I've been away for a lot of the game, but I had also posted this before On October 14 2014 04:42 onlywonderboy wrote:
I have to go to work now so I'll be gone for most of the evening. I should be able to check back in tonight after the night phase ends and see what's going on. If not I'll definitely be able to catch up during my morning class tomorrow. You even reading the thread? It's fine that you were away because of real life responsibilities, but I'm scum for it? Okay. ##Vote: GhandiEAGLE
owb for me at the moment is leaning scum, just from those three things, now that I think about them. But he could also be genuinely curious and unsure in a mafia game. His posts read like they do in RL. So I can't be sure. I also can't get a read on mordek to save my life, but with a soniv vote that leans me in favor of town for now, just for agreement's sake. We'll see.As far as participation goes, I have some thoughts to share post-game. However, now they'll just come off as noob whine or some other cancer, so it's not really the time nor place. TL;DR - I'm still feeling good about my scum read on Soniv, so that's where I'll stay. LT wouldn't be the first person he's convinced he's town (that honor is mine), so I'm not letting up until this ugly feeling is gone, hopefully in the form of some red blood.
On October 17 2014 07:05 AsmodeusXI wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2014 06:48 jcarlsoniv wrote:
I wouldn't mind a few more opinions on my check tonight Similarly, if there's an overwhelming consensus about my scumminess, check me.
GF, methinks?
lynch dis guy, guise.
I'm not nearly as sure about mordek and I don't think I'd lynch him based on the connections with owb on their own---Asmo looks way more guilty and we can get him first and give mordek more time and figure stuff out.
This is 100% the way to go though guys.
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EPT
