C9++ Setup Generator - Page 2

On October 01 2014 07:17 Xatalos wrote:


Hahah... That's an unlikely setup, but one that's still within the boundaries of C9++

On October 01 2014 07:20 Blazinghand wrote:


There's like literally nothing wrong with that setup either. 11:2 Mountainous has an expected town winrate of about 1/3, and this setup is pretty close to that (with random lynches). Given that town won't be lynching purely randomly, and during D1 they'll have an innocent child to help out, this strikes me as reasonably balanced.

On October 01 2014 07:24 batsnacks wrote:


What about this one?

+ Show Spoiler +

On October 01 2014 07:36 batsnacks wrote:
I edited go look.

On October 01 2014 07:38 Blazinghand wrote:


The one with Innocent Child is not significantly different than the one with the 1-shot cop. Scum will do the same thing, which is try to shoot for the Doctor, or maybe WIFOM and shoot for the cop. In fact, town is worse off in this scenario cause they don't even get the 1 in 12 chance for a red check. The 1-shot cop is basically a better Innocent Child.

E: unless you anticipate scum fakeclaiming with their 2 scum against 11 town, but let's be serious here, that's not happening. in a massclaim scenario town will be aware it is a 2-scum scumteam, even if they don't know much else.

On October 01 2014 07:44 batsnacks wrote:


I'd give you a 3:1 odds on town losing any of those setups, any time.

On October 01 2014 07:20 Blazinghand wrote:


There's like literally nothing wrong with that setup either. 11:2 Mountainous has an expected town winrate of about 1/3, and this setup is pretty close to that (with random lynches). Given that town won't be lynching purely randomly, and during D1 they'll have an innocent child to help out, this strikes me as reasonably balanced.

On October 01 2014 07:48 HiroPro wrote:

This isn't even funny, honestly. You can't treat the chance of lynching mafia as being random on anything except day 1. Nobody runs 11-2 on TL because of how overwhelmingly town favored it is

Mafia has to get 5 mislynches to win 11-2 lol and they can only lose a single player. If you seriously believe that's balanced, you need to remove yourself from the balance team right now.

On October 01 2014 07:49 Blazinghand wrote:


I'm pretty sure Batsnacks is saying that town has no chance. I'm trying to argue that town has a chance. You are agreeing with me. Thanks.

On October 01 2014 07:49 Blazinghand wrote:


I'm pretty sure Batsnacks is saying that town has no chance. I'm trying to argue that town has a chance. You are agreeing with me. Thanks.

Edit: the 33% is a _floor_ of how well town can do btw, town typically beats RNG outside of D1. Batsnacks thinks town has a less than 25% chance of winning any of these setups. That is the context for my discussion.

On October 01 2014 07:50 batsnacks wrote:


3:1 odds means I pay you 3x what you invest if town loses.

On October 01 2014 07:52 Blazinghand wrote:


Right, which means If we play 12 games and bet $10 on each game, and town RNGs every lynch, here's what happens:

4 games, town wins, which means I earn $120
8 games, town loses, which means you earn $80

as you can see, given that town has at least a 33% chance of winning, you would lose money if you took this bet.

I pay you... if town loses.

On October 01 2014 07:55 Blazinghand wrote:
OK wait can we talk like normal people instead of total weirdos? Instead of quoting random setups and saying "what about this one", batsnacks, why don't you directly state your opinion on c9++? Because now I'm reading these posts about betting and I have no idea what's going on.

Like here I'll ask you: do you think it's too town-favored or too scum-favored?

On December 30 2013 14:06 HiroPro wrote:
The problem with c9++ is that it's boring and not balanced. It has numerous issues: an inability of mafia to properly deal with medic+cop/vig combinations, a number of setups that only contain 2 mafia and are unbalanced no matter what the roles, huge amounts of confirmed townies with vig/innocent child/mason running around and leaving mafia with no options at all on kills and no way to effectively kill all of them, mafia roles (godfather) that are completely worthless against non-cop roles but still get inserted and somehow considered more useful than a goon even when town has no cop. A lot of hosts who run a "variant" are lazy and just replace a few roles without actually considering what impact that has on balance. The only variant that I've seen that I would consider even somewhat acceptable is the one that bugs used to run.