EPTOn August 24 2014 01:17 Xatalos wrote:
Could you explain your current reads in full? I'll give you my opinion on them.
Yeah I didn't notice the yamato point in rayn's filter since it was so huge until Hapa brought it up. I only added it to my notes after Hapa mentioned it. Not really sure what's unclear here.
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On August 24 2014 01:12 KelsierSC wrote:
With the notes thing I am specifically talking about the yamato thing., you posted notes once that didnt have the yamato question but the 2nd notes you posted did, this was way after the original question rayn asked.
Your reads are just too different to mine at the moment Xat.
On August 24 2014 01:08 Xatalos wrote:
You can be wrong and town. It happens all the time, especially since you don't know me or anyone else here. By the way currently my points go from -3 to 3. Even so I'm really a bit conservative with my points. Even GB & turtlevine are only 8 when they're pretty much confirmed. An extreme townread would be something like 5 or 6.
Hm. Well I guess we'll see about yamato. It's a bit hard to explain, but his tone is just so different. In the PYP game all his posts were bored / resigned. Here he's actually excited to play (that's the feeling I got). I can't say he hasn't been useless, but he's useless as town too.
I'm not completely sure what you mean there? Obviously I added the scummy 1&2&3 points to my notes only *after* I thought of them - when Damdred had just made his push on Damdred and Hapa had started his push. It's not like I had them in my notes all along (LOL how could that even be possible - the Damdred thing happened way after I posted my notes earlier).
On August 24 2014 00:53 KelsierSC wrote:
I think we must just disagree on how Yam has played this game, For me he has tried to BW that push on rayn and then kind of disappeared and posted random bullshit it seems unmotivated and useless.
What bothers me most about your attack on rayn is the timing of things, I just don't like how you later posted the notes on rayn that included the thing he said about yamato, but you never even brought that up until Hapa remembered it for you. Like that seems a big thing to forget on someone you are wavering town on.
you said that everyone has a score of "-1 to 2" so I don't think any of that is concrete. Also I am curious you town reading me when I read Yam as scum and rayn as town.
On August 24 2014 00:09 Xatalos wrote:
Again, he's absolutely useless and unmotivated as scum. He doesn't show emotion. That's from my experience. I don't like how he's lurking so much and avoiding hot topics of discussion though, plus Hapa made some decent points about how he doesn't have real confidence in his reads and how he leaves the thread at crucial points. So currently he's only +1 and he will drop further if his lurking behavior continues.
I've been concerned about rayn all game and I've never thought he's town, something I've ALWAYS concluded at some point during D1 if he's town. However, I didn't want to lynch him based on a gut feeling because 1) he'd be an NK magnet as town 2) he could become a real asset as town at some point. Then he did a really shady push on Damdred where I really doubt he even believed in it himself (all his arguments were just wrong / misinterpreted). I was really wavering on believing he could possibly be town. Just then Hapa came out with an additional point pointing to scum rayn and I decided that I'd rather lynch probable scum rather than flip a coin (on yamato who had barely posted at that point, and actually yamato returned to the thread around then as well while showing some of his towny traits - emotion, constantly posting stuff etc.). So that's why.
I'd hardly say I have "no reads whatsoever" when I townread you and scumread rayn. My other reads are still under evaluation. Onegu is probably town too though because he instantly focused on figuring out the game when he started posting earlier. As scum he's pretty... unfocused.
On August 23 2014 23:53 KelsierSC wrote:
Explain why you townread yamato though your reasons dont make sense
why were you so happy to sheep hapas read
i dont really need to read other games, it isnt hard to mimic your town play if your town play is to have no reads what so ever.
On August 23 2014 23:10 Xatalos wrote:
1) Actually wrong reads (especially very early, initial reads) come more often from town. As scum you have perfect information so it's easy to make your reads somewhat believable. I always craft my reads carefully as scum to be as believable and focused as possible. So I don't really see your point here even if you're somehow right about everything and I'm wrong about everything (no way). The Damdred vote was just something to start the day with, nothing that serious. Btw my notes were my real-time thoughts as I read the thread and nothing like a case or anything. Hard to be immediately 100% sure early on as you read stuff.
2) False. I never called rayn town or even "maybe town". At best null. What you're exaggerating is when I said that "I could see the town motivation behind making that stunt". That's not even any longer the case since clearly there was none - he immediately abandoned the whole idea since my notes matched with my play and there was nothing to push me with.
3) Just stupid. Experienced scum players NEVER, I repeat NEVER do stuff like hard-defend each other and push stuff together. It's about the same as claiming Masons together. This is what gets newb scumteams killed.
4) Go read Arnie Got a Gun Mafia if you think fluff posts indicate scum Xatalos.
5) +2 towny is already somewhat town. And if the argument is good, it's not like I have to 100% townread the one who presented it.
On August 23 2014 22:54 KelsierSC wrote:
This fallacy that you destroyed my argument is completely ridiculous.
1) The older points that you are scum still exist. You had a terrible first list post I didn't like any of your reads, to me that means you are not reading the game correctly that makes you scum to me and a good lynch. I didn't like your weird Dam interactions and also you had a bunch of null reads with everyone either "maybe town could be scum" like it is just non commital gibberish.
2) The main sticking point is when Hapa came out with his read, you had called rayn maybe town, but then as soon as hapa came out you jumped on it and you sheeped all his reasons. ESPECIALLY the "attack" on yamato which apparently hadn't noticed.
3) You then gave a bunch of shitty reasons why yam is town a lot of them were just factually incorrect about how he is giving his reads and seems up for this game which just isn't true, like yam is really scummy to me and you having the same read as him and reading him town is really scummy.
4) This is just my personal opinion here but you seem to be trying to make a lot of posts to seem town but a lot of them are just nothing. Like "where is robik, this is weird" It gives the impression you are trying to figure things out but it is just a lot of garbage trying to throw suspicon.
5
This is what bugs me, you are really happy to sheep any read you get but you have none of those people as your town.
On August 23 2014 21:47 Xatalos wrote:
With one of your arguments being factually false, one of them being a nulltell rather than scumtell, and the others actually being towntells (for me, not in general), I think it's pretty destroyed.
On August 23 2014 21:18 KelsierSC wrote:
[quote]
Completely destroyed? This never happened at all. You gave some non sensical posts about "forgetting to push" let's be real.
[quote]
Completely destroyed? This never happened at all. You gave some non sensical posts about "forgetting to push" let's be real.
With one of your arguments being factually false, one of them being a nulltell rather than scumtell, and the others actually being towntells (for me, not in general), I think it's pretty destroyed.
This fallacy that you destroyed my argument is completely ridiculous.
1) The older points that you are scum still exist. You had a terrible first list post I didn't like any of your reads, to me that means you are not reading the game correctly that makes you scum to me and a good lynch. I didn't like your weird Dam interactions and also you had a bunch of null reads with everyone either "maybe town could be scum" like it is just non commital gibberish.
2) The main sticking point is when Hapa came out with his read, you had called rayn maybe town, but then as soon as hapa came out you jumped on it and you sheeped all his reasons. ESPECIALLY the "attack" on yamato which apparently hadn't noticed.
3) You then gave a bunch of shitty reasons why yam is town a lot of them were just factually incorrect about how he is giving his reads and seems up for this game which just isn't true, like yam is really scummy to me and you having the same read as him and reading him town is really scummy.
4) This is just my personal opinion here but you seem to be trying to make a lot of posts to seem town but a lot of them are just nothing. Like "where is robik, this is weird" It gives the impression you are trying to figure things out but it is just a lot of garbage trying to throw suspicon.
5
ll of my reads besides the Masons are now -1, 0, 1 or 2 points
This is what bugs me, you are really happy to sheep any read you get but you have none of those people as your town.
1) Actually wrong reads (especially very early, initial reads) come more often from town. As scum you have perfect information so it's easy to make your reads somewhat believable. I always craft my reads carefully as scum to be as believable and focused as possible. So I don't really see your point here even if you're somehow right about everything and I'm wrong about everything (no way). The Damdred vote was just something to start the day with, nothing that serious. Btw my notes were my real-time thoughts as I read the thread and nothing like a case or anything. Hard to be immediately 100% sure early on as you read stuff.
2) False. I never called rayn town or even "maybe town". At best null. What you're exaggerating is when I said that "I could see the town motivation behind making that stunt". That's not even any longer the case since clearly there was none - he immediately abandoned the whole idea since my notes matched with my play and there was nothing to push me with.
3) Just stupid. Experienced scum players NEVER, I repeat NEVER do stuff like hard-defend each other and push stuff together. It's about the same as claiming Masons together. This is what gets newb scumteams killed.
4) Go read Arnie Got a Gun Mafia if you think fluff posts indicate scum Xatalos.
5) +2 towny is already somewhat town. And if the argument is good, it's not like I have to 100% townread the one who presented it.
Explain why you townread yamato though your reasons dont make sense
why were you so happy to sheep hapas read
i dont really need to read other games, it isnt hard to mimic your town play if your town play is to have no reads what so ever.
Again, he's absolutely useless and unmotivated as scum. He doesn't show emotion. That's from my experience. I don't like how he's lurking so much and avoiding hot topics of discussion though, plus Hapa made some decent points about how he doesn't have real confidence in his reads and how he leaves the thread at crucial points. So currently he's only +1 and he will drop further if his lurking behavior continues.
I've been concerned about rayn all game and I've never thought he's town, something I've ALWAYS concluded at some point during D1 if he's town. However, I didn't want to lynch him based on a gut feeling because 1) he'd be an NK magnet as town 2) he could become a real asset as town at some point. Then he did a really shady push on Damdred where I really doubt he even believed in it himself (all his arguments were just wrong / misinterpreted). I was really wavering on believing he could possibly be town. Just then Hapa came out with an additional point pointing to scum rayn and I decided that I'd rather lynch probable scum rather than flip a coin (on yamato who had barely posted at that point, and actually yamato returned to the thread around then as well while showing some of his towny traits - emotion, constantly posting stuff etc.). So that's why.
I'd hardly say I have "no reads whatsoever" when I townread you and scumread rayn. My other reads are still under evaluation. Onegu is probably town too though because he instantly focused on figuring out the game when he started posting earlier. As scum he's pretty... unfocused.
I think we must just disagree on how Yam has played this game, For me he has tried to BW that push on rayn and then kind of disappeared and posted random bullshit it seems unmotivated and useless.
What bothers me most about your attack on rayn is the timing of things, I just don't like how you later posted the notes on rayn that included the thing he said about yamato, but you never even brought that up until Hapa remembered it for you. Like that seems a big thing to forget on someone you are wavering town on.
you said that everyone has a score of "-1 to 2" so I don't think any of that is concrete. Also I am curious you town reading me when I read Yam as scum and rayn as town.
You can be wrong and town. It happens all the time, especially since you don't know me or anyone else here. By the way currently my points go from -3 to 3. Even so I'm really a bit conservative with my points. Even GB & turtlevine are only 8 when they're pretty much confirmed. An extreme townread would be something like 5 or 6.
Hm. Well I guess we'll see about yamato. It's a bit hard to explain, but his tone is just so different. In the PYP game all his posts were bored / resigned. Here he's actually excited to play (that's the feeling I got). I can't say he hasn't been useless, but he's useless as town too.
I'm not completely sure what you mean there? Obviously I added the scummy 1&2&3 points to my notes only *after* I thought of them - when Damdred had just made his push on Damdred and Hapa had started his push. It's not like I had them in my notes all along (LOL how could that even be possible - the Damdred thing happened way after I posted my notes earlier).
With the notes thing I am specifically talking about the yamato thing., you posted notes once that didnt have the yamato question but the 2nd notes you posted did, this was way after the original question rayn asked.
Your reads are just too different to mine at the moment Xat.
Could you explain your current reads in full? I'll give you my opinion on them.
Yeah I didn't notice the yamato point in rayn's filter since it was so huge until Hapa brought it up. I only added it to my notes after Hapa mentioned it. Not really sure what's unclear here.
Basically you were wavering on Rayn and finding it hard to read him so missing out the point about yamato which is now a major crux of your scum read just doesn't add up to me. Like if it is now such a big deal how did you miss it before.
