EPT- Can you talk about Cell C?
I don't see any comments from you on it at all so that'd be helpful, I don't care too much which player you talk about in Cell C
[T] Cell (Mini?) Mafia III - Page 8
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
- Can you talk about Cell C? I don't see any comments from you on it at all so that'd be helpful, I don't care too much which player you talk about in Cell C | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
Is it more from townreading marv or scumreading oats? | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
- Any particular reason why you asked WaveofShadow in particular if he was vt (the d1 trap thing)? I'm wondering why you didn't ask me or Apathy or someone else who was also on at the time since Wave didn't answer at first - Did you ever answer this one from Wave on Oats? + Show Spoiler + On August 30 2014 02:06 WaveofShadow wrote: I'm not following this. You think Oats has TMI and is scum, and so is saying BH is town? @WaveofShadow - When we were voting on lilwade you were pointing to NRHF as having really poor posting on D2. + Show Spoiler + On September 02 2014 03:09 WaveofShadow wrote: Where is fake holyflare? His totality of D2 posting has been absolutely horrible, mostly basing his apparent current dump vote on bunnies on weird meta shit. Did no one else pick up on this? On September 02 2014 03:30 WaveofShadow wrote: Well now you guys have got me thinking about who is voting for whom and when, and I absolutely hate NRHF's vote and the circumstances behind it. But I also remember not minding the wagon on bunnies when it initially started and I think he was on it then too. I think the fact that bunnies came back and was giving reads/answering questions freely without being asked despite the fact that she was essentially off the hook may clinch it for me. That one is also unlike the D1/BH. ##unvote ##vote: lilwade I have another 45 min or so then it's only phoneposting if at all until usual time. There's some justification to not suspect NRHF in the second post (based on his vote timings - I'll take a look at that since I'm not sure) but is there a reason why you moved toward voting for your mom without continuing to suspect or questioning NRHF? You did call NRHF town later (when it was revealed it was HaruRH) but you seemed to back off of him before that | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On September 04 2014 07:13 MysteryMeat1 wrote: i'd probably go for marv, i honestly think the only reason he said anything yesterday, was to back up HF in mislynching me today because he knew his partner was going to get lynched. -marv has also probably been in thread, but hasn't posted anything worth reading. I'm still pretty wary of oats, Apathy called him out for not posting and seemed pretty worried, that he wasn't talking. And I think your the towniest out of all the three people, i like your questioning of people in your cell, on people in other cells. Do you think Oats has not been in the thread, or do you feel that Oats has posted something worth reading? If the second, what did Oats post that makes that point not apply to him? | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On September 04 2014 07:20 Holyflare wrote: he posted that he was sheeping marv after he scum read him as if it was a useful comment, he's also been very sure of things like "NUUU it's a town tell" and "no bla bla is definitely mafia" while ignoring everyone else i wouldn't honestly be surprised if wave was mafia with oats though Where do you think see Oats as scumreading marv? I felt like he was still seeing me as the mafia in the cell (but less suspicious than he had earlier maybe) | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
Wave gave some comments on marv here- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=83#1657 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=84#1662 though they were more specific to heavyweight, I was kind of interested in that because Haru and Holyflare were both in that game, too Wave generally indicated he can't read oats here- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=83#1658 which I can empathize with a little because I played catastrophe and don't feel like I have a sense of how to read Oats at all from that. Why do you feel Holyflare is more likely mafia than Wave? I do give Holyflare some credit because I liked his points on bunnies (though this assumes bunnies was the mafia in the cell) | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
I'll be out for a little but I'll try to give you updated thoughts on Oats tonight. If C was up today I'd probably push on Oats as the lynch over marv; I don't really know Oats' meta but I feel like there's a fair case for him as scum based on his posts in this game, whereas for marv I think most of the scumfeels come from a sense of uneasiness that he hasn't been more proactive or tried to be persuasive. One thing I wanted to look at but don't have time to right now is looking at whether Oats townreading marv early makes sense (since he was willing to "sheep" marv while at the same time suggesting he was seeing me as more town). And I dunno, I feel like most people voting for your mom weren't doing it to sheep marv (or at least didn't say so in that tone) Anyway I'll take a look later and let you know but that's more or less how I'm thinking about it now | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On September 04 2014 07:37 MysteryMeat1 wrote: Wow, reading through the thread, i counted 1 person who actually agreed with that post. That one person was Marv, who just chimed in to say, that he was with you. Way to lie HF! ^^ We're talking about this post - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=22891105 I agreed with part of his Holyflare's post on this and disagreed with part- Holyflare argues that the vote timing (bunnies / lilwade) is not a good reason to switch votes because it applies to both. I disagree with that argument - although both players switched, I feel bunnies' timing made her look more towny than lilwade's because hers brought the vote closer so I can see that as a valid reason to be persuaded. The subsequent points that you swapped to and from bunnies & lilwade (one time saying you'd vote for lilwade a minute after posting you were going to stick with bunnies? in the posts he quoted at 1:49 and 1:50) doesn't look right at all, because what would have changed your mind? | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On September 04 2014 08:32 WaveofShadow wrote: @WaveofShadow - When we were voting on lilwade you were pointing to NRHF as having really poor posting on D2. + Show Spoiler + On September 02 2014 03:09 WaveofShadow wrote: Where is fake holyflare? His totality of D2 posting has been absolutely horrible, mostly basing his apparent current dump vote on bunnies on weird meta shit. Did no one else pick up on this? On September 02 2014 03:30 WaveofShadow wrote: Well now you guys have got me thinking about who is voting for whom and when, and I absolutely hate NRHF's vote and the circumstances behind it. But I also remember not minding the wagon on bunnies when it initially started and I think he was on it then too. I think the fact that bunnies came back and was giving reads/answering questions freely without being asked despite the fact that she was essentially off the hook may clinch it for me. That one is also unlike the D1/BH. ##unvote ##vote: lilwade I have another 45 min or so then it's only phoneposting if at all until usual time. There's some justification to not suspect NRHF in the second post (based on his vote timings - I'll take a look at that since I'm not sure) but is there a reason why you moved toward voting for your mom without continuing to suspect or questioning NRHF? You did call NRHF town later (when it was revealed it was HaruRH) but you seemed to back off of him before that I don't think I ever called NRHF town; put simply your mom was the only logical choice for the day. If your mom had put even an ounce of effort into the game then maybe there would have been something else to do, but it doesn't make sense to give a pass to anyone like that otherwise scum can continually think they can get away with it. Neither us nor scum clearly really had much choice in the matter. I noticed an interesting pattern in that regard, however---if we assume bunnies and BH were scum then it means it's possible every initial target town has picked was correct for each day. (This would mean MM1/Oats for final two but I'm not going solely based on that). Now I've said this before but my activity is limited to late evenings now that I've started work again, with maybe the odd phonepost here and there. If there's discussion to be had right now then people should stick around so I can actually talk. [/QUOTE] My mistake, I mis-remembered this post from Holyflare as something you had written. On September 03 2014 11:05 Holyflare wrote: Yeh ok haru is town then | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On September 04 2014 09:13 Oatsmaster wrote: lynch holyflare. ##vote Holyflare HF is scum. Focuses on the change in voting by MM way too much, in advance of his cell, setting up the mislynch so he can win easier. In fact, that change makes MM town. JUSTICE WAGON!@! @Oats: Why is it scummy to focus on players in advance of their cell? For what it's worth, it seems to me that most of your posts seem to focus on me / marv... Also, why does the vote change from make MM1 make him town when Bunnies' vote change (probably) didn't make her town? (Or, do you think Apathy was the mafia in that cell?) I don't see much of anything your Oats' filter discussing MysteryMeat until that post, except maybe these posts- On September 03 2014 15:43 Oatsmaster wrote: Its a town tell. scum are fine sitting on a mislynch On September 03 2014 18:59 Oatsmaster wrote: nah its dumb for scum to do that, why would they intentionally draw attention to themselves? @mm1: Why did you ask oats in particular what he thought of the vote switching as opposed to the other players active in the thread at that time? | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
(1) This fits with my perception that he’s been buddying up to marv to set me as a mislynch I’ve already mentioned this a couple of times, so I won’t repost things on this unless you guys want further explanation. In sum, I feel like Oats misread/mischaracterized some of my posts to attack me until some players began to town-read me. (2) Sheeping marv D4 does not seem consistent with his posts that imply (though do not state outright) that he is townreading me more or suspecting marv more It makes sense to me that Oats would sheep marv on D3 even if he is town – Oats’ posts indicate he was scumreading me, and I was on the wrong side of the Blazinghand lynch whereas marv was probably on the right one. So, I can understand sheeping marv on D3. What’s weird though, is that he indicates he is sheeping Marv on D4 for the your mom lynch. These are two of Oats’ posts in order. (Time passes between them but he doesn’t post between them) + Show Spoiler + On September 02 2014 16:40 Oatsmaster wrote: marv 1/2 so far ##vote: your mom On September 03 2014 14:32 Oatsmaster wrote: er lets do this one line at a time. No, and I dont know why marv asked me to explain it. Possible filler. marv had a whole lotta meta reasons why blazinghand was scum but never wrote it out fully intending to convince people, just sat back and sniped at whoever called bh town. Its not about voting late as in 1 min before the deadline. Its about not making a clear stand so its not so suspicious when your team decides on a change in direction. Town dont give a shit about their own voting patterns so they vote willynilly. Scum more careful with their votes. GENERALLY. After that bit and the last few days, your questions have gotten a lot better and there is more direction rather than questions for the sake of questions. The first post is basically just Oats saying he is sheeping marv and voting for your mom. The second post is in response to me. To be fair, I don’t think Oats is directly saying that he is scumreading marv in this post (which is how marv seemed to take it) but it sort of imply that because he seems to either think cell C is not as easy, comments that my questions are better, etc. So if Oats is suspecting marv more d3 (even if it’s only because he is suspecting me less), why is it that he says he is sheeping marv on d3? (3) Also, "sheeping" marv seems like a weird reason to vote for your mom This point isn’t as compelling to me but it does kinda make me frown. I just think I wouldn’t think that you’d vote for your mom as a sheep read since there wasn’t really a case or strong push to vote him over other players. I kinda agree with what Wave said here, though not as strongly: On September 04 2014 08:32 WaveofShadow wrote: I don't think I ever called NRHF town; put simply your mom was the only logical choice for the day. If your mom had put even an ounce of effort into the game then maybe there would have been something else to do, but it doesn't make sense to give a pass to anyone like that otherwise scum can continually think they can get away with it. Neither us nor scum clearly really had much choice in the matter. I felt there were some reasons to vote your mom (NRHF felt more towny, for example) but I sort of felt like his lynch was mostly required. I guess I just wouldn’t think of it as “sheeping” someone who didn’t really make a case or strongly push for a lynch on someone (though marv did seem quite certain he wanted your mom lynched). Maybe that’s just a phrasing thing though. I don't think the lynch on your mom was inevitable, but I tend to agree that we really didn't have a good chance of finding mafia in the cell if he due to his low content. Imagine your mom had said in thread he was mafia. If everyone was voting for him, I wouldn't write "sheeping marv" as a reason to vote for him, because the reason is that he claimed scum. Anyway it's obviously not that pronounced, but I'm trying to convey why it feels weird. The above two reasons are better anyway I think. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On September 05 2014 07:35 WaveofShadow wrote: Hell even amiko promised a read on me and didn't. It's really weird. I don't remember doing this, could you point it out? I'm interested in who asked me to read you when | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
On September 02 2014 01:49 MysteryMeat1 wrote: Going to work and i probably wont be able to check my phone. Gonna stick to my gut read on bunnies T.T On September 02 2014 01:50 MysteryMeat1 wrote: Ah screw it lilwade it is It just doesn’t seem natural to me that you would switch over the course of a minute. Btw although currently I feel you more likely mafia than Holyflare, I really feel your play is much better in this game than in prior games from you I read (not just counterclaiming or not, your posting style as well) so wanted to mention that. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
I feel like today's vote is between Holyflare and MM1. Although I think there's some merit to the argument that Wave hasn't pushed too hard for a lynch, it's hard for me to say that anyone has pushed super hard on any other player this game (with the exception of Holyflare on MM1, I suppose). I liked Wave's D2 because I felt Wave's votes to and from batsnacks were pretty reasonable. Wave townreads batsnacks early, and even calls a post by Oats voting for batsnacks as awful http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=34#673 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=34#674 He laters vote for batsnacks, but he clearly presents it as looking for information / pressure to get more- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=54#1080 It's difficult to say he is actually scumreading batsnacks when he first votes for him. And, this seems consistent because he later returns to voting for BH. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=59#1179 I feel that here, it would have been difficult for Wave to have a good justification to vote for batsnacks. Except that then batsnacks votes himself and Wave joins. Frankly, I just feel like this is justifiable... certainly mafia can vote on someone who is voting on himself, but Wave still seems to want to keep pressure on batsnacks http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/463542-cell-mini-mafia-iii?page=61#1213 The other thing with wave is that when asked for reads or thoughts on certain situations, he gives fleshed out explanations of things in a way I agree with. The most recent and pronounced of these is probably his comments on your mom, but I also feel like some of his comments on marv and oats resonate with me. Some feel like they could be buddying up, but I tend to think that's a little less likely because my vote on him doesn't seem like it'd be all that important. Anyway, I don't have much more to write about Wave, really - I think for me I'm solidly between HF and MM1 leaning MM1. | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
Can you not call him shitflare? Like, politeness aside (though that's a consideration) it's harder to search your filter for references to him if you call him that, and it's already tough to look for people's comments on you when people call you "mm" On September 05 2014 14:47 MysteryMeat1 wrote: how many mafia has HF led lynches on? I don't see this as relevant... the only mafia lynch was your mom and I feel like it was (sort of) the obvious choice and more the result of inactivity than anyone pushing or leading a lynch. On September 01 2014 05:20 MysteryMeat1 wrote: I think i'd probably go for bunnies as the mafia in this situation. I think professor apathy is town for voting on lil wade, and i'm not sure on how to read lilwade, but from the games that i've played with bunnies her play as town has definitely been different. If bunnies does flip mafia, then the chance that ritoky was scum over BH increases in my mind. I did sheep ritoky's reads because everyone was claiming that he was town, but rereading the thread i don't really see where all of that was coming from. ##Vote: 27NinjaBunnies Why did you see Apathy as town for voting on lilwade when you were thought bunnies was the scum in the cell? | ||
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Amiko
United States1725 Posts
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Amiko
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I'm not caught up yet but if it's 2-2 I want majority | ||
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