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So my updated are-
1. GlowingBear- Leaning town so far for me, has been making decent points throughout the thread, however as others have said they seem to lack clear thoughts on what he himself is thinking. Townie enough in my book.
2. Teemursu- Very empty posts, not much substance to them, seems somewhat disinterested in the game, even though he has been posting a lot. Heavily mafia leaning.
3. DCLXVI
4. meatpudding-Afk policy lynch
5. JennyHell- Strong posts with a lot of substance to them. Any time someone asks a question to her she responds in well thought out posts, and also gives her insight a lot when others give their thoughts about the game. Top town.
6. lilwade- Much like Teemu, a good amount of points but not a lot of substance to most of them, if any at all. Another Mafia leaning player.
7. Tehpoofter- Lots of posts, good input, "friendly" demeanor, gives off a huge townie vibe. Almost too huge. Townie for today, might reevaluate further as game goes on so I don't find myself comfortably in his pocket. Although I'm probably just being extremely paranoid.
8. Lord Tolkien- In his first real post, he had more input and reasoning thrown in then all of Teemu's and lilwade's posts combined. I also liked his first post, even if it was odd. Hopefully he stays active and brings more input into the game before today ends.
9. Seeyalater- A fine townie chap who has been very active since waking up today. Doesn't have a way with words but he posts his thoughts often!
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Oh my bad completely skipped over him. I'll be 100% honest, he's completely fallen off my radar since he talked earlier.
Actually had to go look at his previous posts in this thread, and have realized how little he's done in the game. His first read on GB seemed townie aligned, but him dropping off afterwards and the weird comment he made at teemu have made me put him on the leaning mafia side, though not someone I'd want to push on today.
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On July 30 2014 10:44 JennyHell wrote:
I just went through GB's posts again, wondering what he actually brought to the table.
Other than calling me and seeya mafia partners, without any explanation, along with the continuous comments that he will give his reads soon, all he's done is initiate the more serious discussions and then himself keep trolling about and stalking me on Twitter.
Get your head in the game and give your reads on us already.
It's really difficult to keep reading you town when you won't give reasons for your reads.
Even so I get a townie vibe off him so he's off my lynch list for today, but my read on him can change easily if he doesn't contribute as much.
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Like I said, its my lynch list for today because there are other people I find more scummy that I'd rather get rid off. Now after today I will completely reevaluate where I stand with my so-so people. I just find Teemu, afk dude, and lilwade higher on my lynch list for today. Not too hard to understand.
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On July 30 2014 11:28 Tehpoofter wrote:
Roman Numeral Guy I would officially no longer bang.
Care to elaborate?
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I stated my opinion on you not too long ago on the thread, and it my opinion had not changed at all when I posted that reply to Tehpoofter. Instead I want to know why Tehpoofter himself no longer finds you town, see if there's anything in there that I could use to either cement my read or possibly alter it.
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This will be my last post for the next 10 hours or so since I'm off to bed, so I'll try to make it a meaningful one.
I'm sorry ahead of time that my formatting WILL suck.
On July 30 2014 13:02 GlowingBear wrote:.: Short Case - Interaction Between JennyHell and SeeyalaterThis post from Seeyalater caugt my attention: Bolded part is weird. He says that he is not calling Teemu mafia but that he is his top scum. Which means that Teemu is probably mafia by his point of view? I know that maybe Seeyalater is trying to say that Teemu is leaning mafia, but this also means he is considering him as mafia. From the way I think, this is Seeyalater trying not to be compromised by his reads, not drawing undesired attention. It's him trying to give a read but not giving a read at all. If you're calling someone scum, you're calling someone mafia. Period. If you say that he is your top scum but that you're not calling him mafia, you're saying nothing about someone. Just looks like a mafia attempt to show contribution. And it's in this post that he starts his interaction with Jenny. It doesn't say much with just it alone, but you can view from this angle: if both are scum, by asking this, he is distancing from Jenny, trying to put both on two opposite poles where if one is mafia, another cannot be.
As I've said many times before, it was still super early in the game and did not want to call anyone mafia YET preemtively, however as the day progressed and others chimed in with their reads, thats when I did start to call him mafia, as you should have seen in my recent list of reads.
+ Show Spoiler +On July 30 2014 04:47 JennyHell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 04:41 GlowingBear wrote:On July 30 2014 03:54 Teemursu wrote:On July 30 2014 02:49 GlowingBear wrote:On July 30 2014 02:46 Teemursu wrote:On July 30 2014 02:41 GlowingBear wrote:
No, really, let's try to actually start the game.
Jenny, from your experience on daily mafia, what's the difference between scum!jenny and town!jenny? This is a weird question to start the "actual" game with. What information are you expecting to get out of this question, specifically information that will help you figure out her alignment? Scum!jenny would lie about how she plays either alignment, so to get any helpful information, you have to know she is town. Kinda scummy. If we keep kidding all day long it will lead to a mislynch. I'd rather ask questions like this so we can gather some information. You may consider it true or false. If you consider it false, you may analyse how consciously she is trying to keep the appearances she brought on her answer. If I actually knew she was town, there would be no need to ask such question, Teemu I like that you try to generate some discussion, but I think the question you asked is weird. What do you now think of her answer that she did give one? Too consciously trying to keep the appearance? Nope, she actually said nothing on her post. It shows she is cautious to tell us about her play style, but it looks like mor of a town paranoia than scum hiding. It's fine that you find that weird, but what would be a scum motive behind that question. Think about it. Do you expect people that are new to mafia in general to be able to say exactly how their play differentiate depending on what role they are when they haven't actually played enough to know themselves yet? Like, if you were to ask seeyalater the same question that you asked me, you'd probably get an even more empty answer, because he hasn't played any yet. It's not only what is said that is important, more so the way it is said. Or is that just me? In this post by Jenny, you can see that she uses Seeyalater as example, in a way that, by defending her, she is also defending him against my accusation of saying nothing at all. Remember: this post alone is a weak reasoning. You have to consider all the interactions I'm going to post to get to the conclusion that they have a strong interaction. How can you say she defended me from your accusation when you never accused me of anything prior to then? Did you just forget what you said earlier? If anything she defended HERSELF against your accusation by bringing up another new player(me) as an example which I found extremely odd, which leads to...+ Show Spoiler +On July 30 2014 04:55 Seeyalater wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 04:47 JennyHell wrote:On July 30 2014 04:41 GlowingBear wrote:On July 30 2014 03:54 Teemursu wrote:On July 30 2014 02:49 GlowingBear wrote:On July 30 2014 02:46 Teemursu wrote:On July 30 2014 02:41 GlowingBear wrote:
No, really, let's try to actually start the game.
Jenny, from your experience on daily mafia, what's the difference between scum!jenny and town!jenny? This is a weird question to start the "actual" game with. What information are you expecting to get out of this question, specifically information that will help you figure out her alignment? Scum!jenny would lie about how she plays either alignment, so to get any helpful information, you have to know she is town. Kinda scummy. If we keep kidding all day long it will lead to a mislynch. I'd rather ask questions like this so we can gather some information. You may consider it true or false. If you consider it false, you may analyse how consciously she is trying to keep the appearances she brought on her answer. If I actually knew she was town, there would be no need to ask such question, Teemu I like that you try to generate some discussion, but I think the question you asked is weird. What do you now think of her answer that she did give one? Too consciously trying to keep the appearance? Nope, she actually said nothing on her post. It shows she is cautious to tell us about her play style, but it looks like mor of a town paranoia than scum hiding. It's fine that you find that weird, but what would be a scum motive behind that question. Think about it. Do you expect people that are new to mafia in general to be able to say exactly how their play differentiate depending on what role they are when they haven't actually played enough to know themselves yet? Like, if you were to ask seeyalater the same question that you asked me, you'd probably get an even more empty answer, because he hasn't played any yet. It's not only what is said that is important, more so the way it is said. Or is that just me? Hey don't try to throw scum at me sister! To answer said question, I'm pretty sure no matter the alignment I'd play similarly day 1 to try to figure out who the scummiest people are. Now what I'd do with said info is different though, because as you've noticed I've yet to actually call anyone mafia, just trying to notice who seems the scummiest so far. Not sure if this is you being Mafia trying to throw off scum Jenny, or just a really defensive townie. This is a response from Seeyalater to Jenny. Notice how weird and overreacted that post came. Looks like an unnatural way of distancing, again. Now, after this distancing, look how easily he town reads Jenny: + Show Spoiler +On July 30 2014 05:07 Seeyalater wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 04:56 Teemursu wrote:On July 30 2014 04:37 Seeyalater wrote:On July 30 2014 04:32 JennyHell wrote:On July 30 2014 04:28 Seeyalater wrote:
Hey y'all I'm awake and town! So that's good.
Still heavily sick with the flu though.
Also so far reading into the game I don't trust Teemu.... What makes you not trust a tea drinking walrus? Take me on a ride through your thoughts. I don't know, he just seems a little TOO eager, you know what I mean? Like going off so hard to get people to like him(including cute pictures as well!) makes me not trust him too much. Not calling him mafia or anything, just my top scum from what has been happening here so far! Are you his partner Jenny? :o I really really like that you're giving reads, but I dislike the bolded. I was trying to get a reaction from Jenny, who I've been on the fence about, but her recent reply above me seemed somewhat genuine, so I'd say she's my top town at the moment. Do you know which post made him get this read?: + Show Spoiler +On July 30 2014 04:59 JennyHell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 04:55 Seeyalater wrote:On July 30 2014 04:47 JennyHell wrote:On July 30 2014 04:41 GlowingBear wrote:On July 30 2014 03:54 Teemursu wrote:On July 30 2014 02:49 GlowingBear wrote:On July 30 2014 02:46 Teemursu wrote:On July 30 2014 02:41 GlowingBear wrote:
No, really, let's try to actually start the game.
Jenny, from your experience on daily mafia, what's the difference between scum!jenny and town!jenny? This is a weird question to start the "actual" game with. What information are you expecting to get out of this question, specifically information that will help you figure out her alignment? Scum!jenny would lie about how she plays either alignment, so to get any helpful information, you have to know she is town. Kinda scummy. If we keep kidding all day long it will lead to a mislynch. I'd rather ask questions like this so we can gather some information. You may consider it true or false. If you consider it false, you may analyse how consciously she is trying to keep the appearances she brought on her answer. If I actually knew she was town, there would be no need to ask such question, Teemu I like that you try to generate some discussion, but I think the question you asked is weird. What do you now think of her answer that she did give one? Too consciously trying to keep the appearance? Nope, she actually said nothing on her post. It shows she is cautious to tell us about her play style, but it looks like mor of a town paranoia than scum hiding. It's fine that you find that weird, but what would be a scum motive behind that question. Think about it. Do you expect people that are new to mafia in general to be able to say exactly how their play differentiate depending on what role they are when they haven't actually played enough to know themselves yet? Like, if you were to ask seeyalater the same question that you asked me, you'd probably get an even more empty answer, because he hasn't played any yet. It's not only what is said that is important, more so the way it is said. Or is that just me? Hey don't try to throw scum at me sister! To answer said question, I'm pretty sure no matter the alignment I'd play similarly day 1 to try to figure out who the scummiest people are. Now what I'd do with said info is different though, because as you've noticed I've yet to actually call anyone mafia, just trying to notice who seems the scummiest so far. Not sure if this is you being Mafia trying to throw off scum Jenny, or just a really defensive townie. Sorry if it looked like I was trying to make you seem scummy. I was merely pointing out a flaw that I saw in the question he asked me. It really had nothing to do with you, just brought you in as a way to explain the way I viewed it. What, WHAT in this post is so townie that completely changes you perception regarding someone? Do you get how odd this is? She explained herself in detail both in this post, and another post right above mine- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/462654-newbie-mini-mafia-lvii?page=11#205
She both reacted to my post in a matter that seemed non scummy to me, AND also tried to understand what I was trying to get town to see. Its day 1, reads can change pretty easily on that day if someone says something favorably.Now, THIS IS THE MAIN POINT. Finding the odd contradictions from the first post I quoted from Seeyalater, I decided to push him on it (you can look my post on the nested quote). I've got a response. From him? NOPE, from Jenny! + Show Spoiler +On July 30 2014 05:01 JennyHell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 04:58 GlowingBear wrote:On July 30 2014 04:37 Seeyalater wrote:On July 30 2014 04:32 JennyHell wrote:On July 30 2014 04:28 Seeyalater wrote:
Hey y'all I'm awake and town! So that's good.
Still heavily sick with the flu though.
Also so far reading into the game I don't trust Teemu.... What makes you not trust a tea drinking walrus? Take me on a ride through your thoughts. I don't know, he just seems a little TOO eager, you know what I mean? Like going off so hard to get people to like him(including cute pictures as well!) makes me not trust him too much. Not calling him mafia or anything, just my top scum from what has been happening here so far! Are you his partner Jenny? :o Lol wait. How can you not be calling him mafia or anything if you're saying he is your top scum read? My guess, he starts off reading everyone as town, trying to figure out who is scummy enough to be mafia. So he's saying they're leaning mafia, or the things they said are questionable for a town. Personally I start reading everyone as mafia, and see who proves to me they are towny and can be trusted enough to be in the town circle with me. But that's just my guess. I could be wrong. More than that, why is she somehow defending him instead of helping me pushing him? His post was odd, we needed to get more information from him. She decides to explain his attitude instead of trying to discover if he got mafia motives! This, for me, is a signal of a possible scum trying to defend his partner. He didn't even got the chance to explain himself BEFORE she posts this.
I did answer your question, right below hers, and at most 1 minute apart from each other, so its not like I let her talk for me for a long time before I decided to chime in.This concludes my short case. I still prefer to Vote for meatpudding because we definitely need him talking. But if meatpudding comes ok to the thread and nothing more suspicious happens, I'm voting for one of these two.
In short, to me this case study either proves to me that you are not paying much attention to both what others and YOU have said, but now it feels like you are just trying to lead town in a bad direction with your misinformation.
Now as for you Teemu http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/462654-newbie-mini-mafia-lvii?page=17#334,
I'll agree with you on some things, like about some of my opinions being shared by others before me, but in that case, is it really that odd to agree with the majority on certain actions? I like to sound off on every post as much as possible, and what I think of content of said post, and hey guess what, that will usually align with what others are saying if its fairly obvious stuff.
Also how is making an early list of reads odd, specially in a forum game, just to show everyone where I am at at the moment? I wasn't even the first person to do so, how come you only came at me about that. Its a great way as town to communicate to each other where we stand with each other. In fact, you're the only one who has brought this up as scummy in your book. And who said anything about them being good reads? They were my early game-what has happened so far- reads, no where did I imply they were good reads at all.
Also your point about last game seems odd to me, mostly because I wasn't in on it, but why bring it up at that moment? Nothing major just a small thing that seemed weird to me. As for the how odd... You'll notice I say a lot of things are odd, just because other people use said word. Is that something I need to change in order to come off as less scummy? Probably, but that's just how it is.
To me teemu, now it just seems now that people have started to give you flak and see past your friendly demeanor, you've just thrown scum at others who have called you mafia.
I have not seen you, since you woke up a while back, even talk about other people in the game, such as Lord Tolkien or Jenny.
Speaking of those 2, I know right now its night time for her, and hopefully Tolkien chimes in while I'm ResidentSleeper, I'd like to hear from them in the next coming hours about where they are in the game, since right now they are my top 2 town(again this can change at a moments whim, but for now it stays that way).
As for the other people, I still think Poofter is town enough for today, some decent meat to his posts, Roman numerals I'm also ok with for now(though less than Poofter) because he seems to also want to push others to elaborate on their current standings.
Meatpudding still afk so nothing changes on that.
Lilwade has also really not contributed at all in a long time, so I'll be fine with lynching him as well if he doesn't become more active tomorrow, however of the people actually posting my top 2 scum are-
GB for that long post "case" study- normally I'd be fine with posts being analized in depth even if they are on me so I can see his insight into things, but many things about his study were really off, such as him saying Jenny defended me from an accusation he never accused me of in the first place, when she was only trying to defend herself from the accusation he made at her, never at me. Also in another post about her "defending" me, my reply to his accusation was directly posted below hers, less than 1 minute apart. It just seems like he is trying to throw scum to move town in a bad way with all that misinformation, and he's been throwing scum not just on me, but on my top town, and someone who is also very townie for others, trying to create chaos.
And my top scum so far Teemu- I've also explained this in detail before in this post, but I still don't see too much info to his posts other than just trying to make others look scummier than him. I still don't even know where he stands on most of the town, specially the people I see as town. Now my initial read on him as scum was a really early initial read, but it has slowly evolved into something more substantial. In your last few posts, nothing you have said has really come off to me as townie. Now your old friendly demeanor has evolved into a more nasty, two sided demeanor, where you're all Tee-hee! in your posts, but they seem coated in venom.
As for who I'd vote, I'm still holding to my policy lynch for meatpudding and possibly Lilwade, but if those 2 become more active, and unless they seem genuinely town, my top 2 lynch are 1st- Teemu, followed by GB.
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Oh in case its hard to see, my replies to GB's case are bolded inside his post. Goodnight y'all!
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I'm getting ready for work right now so I can't post a long response just yet, but I've been catching up since my ZZZ and will try to respond in full in the coming hour or so. Just want to say I might reevaluate my read on GB, since now that I think about it, why would mafia come up with such a long post that contained a lot of inconsistencies? It could be that he's a drunk mafia, but I'm not going to OGI it up, and possibly assume he's just a donkey town.
I'll also reevaluate others of course after I read input, but that was the biggest thing that stuck with me during the night.
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Oh that came off wrong, Bang for me was my top town, marry(which is why I put on the fence, if a case like this came up) is my neither top town/top scum read. See if I really liked someone, I'd rather bang them than marry them. :p
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So the reason (on the fence) is there is not because I was on the fence about Poofter specifically, but that was what my marry read was intended to be, someone I am on the fence about.
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I've said this many times before, I don't think marriage means much, and I'd totally get married for money!
No but yeah, I seemed to have mixed up what the protocol for what bang, ,marry, kill is. Just went in order from bang(top town) to kill(top scum).
I like that meatpudding is back and giving some reads, however I sincerely hope he posts more today, we need a lot more info from him and others, like lilwade, anc clockwork orange(666).
My reply to this teemu post- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/462654-newbie-mini-mafia-lvii?page=19#361
If you go through his filter, a lot of his posts are 2-3 sentences max, so there isn't too much depth to them. Only maybe one or 2 after the game started are longer than that. It was good that you mean me go through his filter though, so I can reevaluate him. While his interaction with Poofter was weird, I am getting a townier read on him then earlier, so I'd be ok with leaving him alive for today.
It also made me read you even more scummy than before. You bring up the fact that his filter is about as long as mine, which post count wise it may be true, but a lot, and by a lot I mean A LOT, of my posts are much more substantiated than his 2-3 sentence posts. It just seems like once again, you are trying to subvertly throw scum at me. Otherwise why bring up the number of posts, but leave out how packed said posts are. And the smiley is like the cherry on top. Like my great sensei Imaqtpie once said, never trust someone who posts a smiley face where it should not belong.
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I guess its time to vote for now then, in case something goes wrong.
##VoVote Teemursu.
Hope I did that right!
Not a 100% set read in case something else comes up, but I'll admit that will be pretty hard.
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Hmm, was waiting for you to reply as to why that list was terrible, or about what me and Jenny said about your case study, but I guess I'll ask, could you elaborate further?
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Alright I'll wait to see what your response to my response to your case(lol) is!
Meatpudding still needs to contribute a lot more or I might just want to policy lynch him today instead of my current vote, but I'll give him a few more hours before I change my vote. I do like that he game some info that seemed to match somewhat where I am also currently at. Also Lord Tolkien I'll give some time since he did say he is swamped this week.
I just hope we hear more from people before the day the day draws to a close.
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On July 31 2014 04:09 Teemursu wrote:Seeyalater, you said you'd re evaluate everyone, but I don't see you've reevaluated me at all, when I'm the person you should probably be reevaluating the most. I'm obviously town and not going to get lynched today, if not for the longetlst filter alone, so you eed to do some effective scumhunting and place your vote somewhere where it's not useless. 
I did say I'd reevaluate, and you can see in http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/462654-newbie-mini-mafia-lvii?page=20#396. I responded to your post from a few hours ago, which tied deeply to my "reevaluation," after which I found you even scummier than before.
I also very strongly dislike when people claim they're not going to get lynched. Do you really think so highly of yourself? Also having longest filter does not automatically equal town. I did say if afk's don't post more I will change my vote to them, but for now I'm fine with having you as my vote since you have not quelled my fears about you being mafia.
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On July 31 2014 04:16 JennyHell wrote:
Teemu, you speak a lot about not being able to read people if they don't give information and you ask a lot of question, but honestly I'm having a super hard time reading you.
Just because you need to read others doesn't negate the fact that these others need to be able to read you.
You keep mentioning having the longest filter but, is that really that important if half of it is fluff and jokes?
Something you did that I didn't really care for was talk about some Vivax thingie, which stopped me in my tracks and made me stare clueless, so thanks for that.
Another thing you did that I didn't really appreciate, even though it was probably meant as a joke due to you being bored about the thread going slowly, was mentioning Poofter's QT and calling him a wolf in a jokey way.
Maybe I'm just too stuck up to see the fun in that.
Do you actually feel he is scum, and if so what lead you to believe so?
He either thinks he is scum, or wants a reaction, since his current vote is for Poofter. Have your reads changed at all since last night(or morning for you Europeons)?, for people like me, poofter, Tolkien, or Clockwork Orange?
And as you can see in the post right below this one, I agree on the whole "im town for having the longest filter" thing.
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Probably dead in a ditch somewhere.
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Also my scum senses on Teemu have settled down a little bit. Its really just a gut feeling I have from his last few posts, but now that he actually have a complete set of reads on everyone, and how his demeanor seems to have changed in the past couple pages in the thread. Not taking my vote off of him just yet, but I thought I'd let y'all know where I am on this. Guess this means Im reevaluating my reevaluation, if that makes sense.
Really interested in what Tolkien has to say, since I got a huge townie read from him yesterday.
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Yes, I also commented on my post a couple pages back I think, where I stated that I did not like that response at all. Holier than thou attitude can not get your far in places, specially not here.
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EPT
