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On May 29 2014 10:11 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 07:09 fuba wrote:Looked at gobbledydook first, since his filter is shorter XD His initial reaction to bunnies' case, as well as his follow-up reaction to Palmar seem to indicate that he didn't read the entire case against jabber before disagreeing with it (twice), which I don't feel bodes well for him. I think his jump on the wagon also seems kinda strange, since the reason is kinda lame. I mean, there were plenty of ways in which jabber "admitted guilt", and the fact that he said a stone fell on him is the least of those. It's like he's not really thinking about the game. Problem with this is that it could just be general laziness, rather than him being scum. On May 28 2014 10:48 gobbledydook wrote:On May 28 2014 10:34 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Top Scum: Palamar
Just started out weird with the whole ninjabunnies vote and never really did anything
top town: any one of the people initially defending me, as most Mafia would want to turn the town against me ASAP You are basically copying what sqrt said about Palmar and not really saying anything about your town reads. I feel sorry for having tried to defend you, you have made no useful contributions all day. All you did is flail around like a magikarp out of water screaming im a noob. Which makes me highly suspect if you aren't flailing on purpose. If jabber flips scum, this quote would make me think gobble is likely town. This was kind of jabber's last stand, and I don't think the scumteam would shoot down their ally like that. Unless it was some kind of elaborate plan to give gobble some slight towncred after the flip, but that's kinda out there. I do have to say that I don't entirely understand what that last sentence means. As for what he's said about MZ, I'd have to form an opinion of MZ for myself first XD First I must disagree with your criticisms of me, the gist of the case against jabber is that he went about lying to conceal information, and then backed that up with really shit defenses, the one which caught my eye at the time I voted him being the 'caught on a stone' argument. That was the last straw for me. If someone's town they just don't say they got 'caught' which implies they were thinking from a mafia mindset, where mafia can be 'caught'. Of course jabber follows with some more shit defenses, including his list of reads which has no reads actually, and I was criticizing that post for its lack of content. I don't understand how that is 'not reading the whole thread'. I feel that I am right in pointing out that he has made no contributions, which is something townies don't do. Now fuba, don't call the kettle black. Your vote didn't even come with any explanation whatsoever you just jumped on the bandwagon. Then when mderg questions you on your vote, you then come up with an explanation on why you changed from not lynching him to voting him. You hint at why you think he is guilty later on, without explicitly saying that *I think you are guilty because you are lying* or something like that. Why so non-committal? sqrtofneg1 has a good point here, you haven't contributed all that much to town except for making non-committal statements about jabberwockzerg. I don't think your 'lol' and then your one line answer to his accusation is anywhere near enough. Please respond to sqrtofneg1's accusations properly. In particular, show comprehensively what you have contributed to town as a townie, as I don't see much either.
The reason you gave was a semantics argument, when there were actual legit reasons to vote him. I could probably pull up one for every person in the game if I wanted to. He explicitly stated that he was trying to conceal information in order to help himself. How is "caught" a stronger indicator of scum mindset than that? How is "a stone fell on me" the last straw, when he explicitly stated that he was misleading town for his own ends?
I said you weren't reading the cases, which was a fact. It had been made clear that jabber was scum last game, so at the very least he wasn't "just plain guessing" about who was mafia. I'd have to reread my own filter to see why I was even willing to buy that it was a mistake. Like, there's no reason he shouldn't have known Chrom was town. In any case, your point that he could have just been guessing about the scumteam was disproven in the case that you were disagreeing with. Hence how you were disagreeing with the case without reading it.
My reason for the vote, when it was given, was legitimate. Your reason, when it was given, was semantic nonsense. And you say I jumped on the bandwagon as if I wasn't one of the people who started it, lol. Like I just sat myself down and twiddled my thumbs. I'd be lying if I said you saw my whole thought process, because my mind goes crazy with possibilities, but you saw just about everything I found relevant about the jabber lynch. And I'm pretty sure I explicitly said that at least one thing I mentioned was scummy. I make sure to do that when I'm reasonably sure of something, because my thoughts are generally wishy-washy since, you know, as town I can't possibly know anything for certain aside from my own alignment. And I wasn't non-committal. After I voted the second time, and gave my reasons for doing so, I was there for good. My first post when coming back was reasserting that he should be lynched. How in the hell is that non-committal?
And I concede, I only contributed thoughts primarily about one person. The person I thought was scum. You saw my honest thought process, which is kinda what town wants from its townies. How is that not contributing for town? And who says "contributing for town"? A townie would just say "contributing" because "for town" is implied. Who is trying to "contribute for scum"? (Point from paragraph 1 proven)
It's interesting that you were upset that post landed after the deadline. It looks like you had your suspicions that my filter, containing almost exclusively reasons for jabber to be scum, was going to be proven "useless for town" before he even flipped town. However could you have known that?
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On May 29 2014 13:24 gobbledydook wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 10:59 fuba wrote:On May 29 2014 10:11 gobbledydook wrote:On May 29 2014 07:09 fuba wrote:Looked at gobbledydook first, since his filter is shorter XD His initial reaction to bunnies' case, as well as his follow-up reaction to Palmar seem to indicate that he didn't read the entire case against jabber before disagreeing with it (twice), which I don't feel bodes well for him. I think his jump on the wagon also seems kinda strange, since the reason is kinda lame. I mean, there were plenty of ways in which jabber "admitted guilt", and the fact that he said a stone fell on him is the least of those. It's like he's not really thinking about the game. Problem with this is that it could just be general laziness, rather than him being scum. On May 28 2014 10:48 gobbledydook wrote:On May 28 2014 10:34 jabberwockzerg wrote:
Top Scum: Palamar
Just started out weird with the whole ninjabunnies vote and never really did anything
top town: any one of the people initially defending me, as most Mafia would want to turn the town against me ASAP You are basically copying what sqrt said about Palmar and not really saying anything about your town reads. I feel sorry for having tried to defend you, you have made no useful contributions all day. All you did is flail around like a magikarp out of water screaming im a noob. Which makes me highly suspect if you aren't flailing on purpose. If jabber flips scum, this quote would make me think gobble is likely town. This was kind of jabber's last stand, and I don't think the scumteam would shoot down their ally like that. Unless it was some kind of elaborate plan to give gobble some slight towncred after the flip, but that's kinda out there. I do have to say that I don't entirely understand what that last sentence means. As for what he's said about MZ, I'd have to form an opinion of MZ for myself first XD First I must disagree with your criticisms of me, the gist of the case against jabber is that he went about lying to conceal information, and then backed that up with really shit defenses, the one which caught my eye at the time I voted him being the 'caught on a stone' argument. That was the last straw for me. If someone's town they just don't say they got 'caught' which implies they were thinking from a mafia mindset, where mafia can be 'caught'. Of course jabber follows with some more shit defenses, including his list of reads which has no reads actually, and I was criticizing that post for its lack of content. I don't understand how that is 'not reading the whole thread'. I feel that I am right in pointing out that he has made no contributions, which is something townies don't do. Now fuba, don't call the kettle black. Your vote didn't even come with any explanation whatsoever you just jumped on the bandwagon. Then when mderg questions you on your vote, you then come up with an explanation on why you changed from not lynching him to voting him. You hint at why you think he is guilty later on, without explicitly saying that *I think you are guilty because you are lying* or something like that. Why so non-committal? sqrtofneg1 has a good point here, you haven't contributed all that much to town except for making non-committal statements about jabberwockzerg. I don't think your 'lol' and then your one line answer to his accusation is anywhere near enough. Please respond to sqrtofneg1's accusations properly. In particular, show comprehensively what you have contributed to town as a townie, as I don't see much either. The reason you gave was a semantics argument, when there were actual legit reasons to vote him. I could probably pull up one for every person in the game if I wanted to. He explicitly stated that he was trying to conceal information in order to help himself. How is "caught" a stronger indicator of scum mindset than that? How is "a stone fell on me" the last straw, when he explicitly stated that he was misleading town for his own ends? I said you weren't reading the cases, which was a fact. It had been made clear that jabber was scum last game, so at the very least he wasn't "just plain guessing" about who was mafia. I'd have to reread my own filter to see why I was even willing to buy that it was a mistake. Like, there's no reason he shouldn't have known Chrom was town. In any case, your point that he could have just been guessing about the scumteam was disproven in the case that you were disagreeing with. Hence how you were disagreeing with the case without reading it. My reason for the vote, when it was given, was legitimate. Your reason, when it was given, was semantic nonsense. And you say I jumped on the bandwagon as if I wasn't one of the people who started it, lol. Like I just sat myself down and twiddled my thumbs. I'd be lying if I said you saw my whole thought process, because my mind goes crazy with possibilities, but you saw just about everything I found relevant about the jabber lynch. And I'm pretty sure I explicitly said that at least one thing I mentioned was scummy. I make sure to do that when I'm reasonably sure of something, because my thoughts are generally wishy-washy since, you know, as town I can't possibly know anything for certain aside from my own alignment. And I wasn't non-committal. After I voted the second time, and gave my reasons for doing so, I was there for good. My first post when coming back was reasserting that he should be lynched. How in the hell is that non-committal? And I concede, I only contributed thoughts primarily about one person. The person I thought was scum. You saw my honest thought process, which is kinda what town wants from its townies. How is that not contributing for town? And who says "contributing for town"? A townie would just say "contributing" because "for town" is implied. Who is trying to "contribute for scum"? (Point from paragraph 1 proven) It's interesting that you were upset that post landed after the deadline. It looks like you had your suspicions that my filter, containing almost exclusively reasons for jabber to be scum, was going to be proven "useless for town" before he even flipped town. However could you have known that? So now you dismiss my arguments as semantics and then attempt to frame me using semantics. Way to go with your hypocrisy. I'm upset about your arguments being useless to town not because JWZ turned VT, I'm upset about your arguments because you are pretending to be contributing while offering wishy washy one liner posts that suggest you are not willing to commit anywhere. Guess what mafias do? Act wishy washy, post little, and then look for the nearest bandwagon that makes sense.
You're really defensive about what was, in the beginning, essentially a null read. Yes, him saying a rock fell on him is not proper evidence. Him saying that he was intentionally concealing information for his own purposes was proper evidence. If by "framing" you're referring to the second to last paragraph, I certainly hope you know that that was me being a smartass. Normally if someone is legitimately trying to "frame" someone, they don't make it clear in the same paragraph that they're doing so. And it really annoys me on TL that honesty is misconstrued as being wishy-washy so often. I've already explained how I wasn't being wishy-washy in the jabber lynch. After I voted for him the second time, I was on him until the end.
On May 29 2014 06:35 fuba wrote:
Every vote wasn't on jabber. It's taken the majority of two days to get the vote to reach this point. There's been significant discussion about it, and there are legitimate reasons to consider him scum.
I'd also like to point out that jabber hasn't been defending himself or offering an alternative wagon for the last 20 hours or so. This tends to be a scum reaction to a large wagon building against them, rather than a town reaction.
If anyone has a specific person they'd like me to comment on, I might have time to squeeze in a filter dive before the deadline. My quick read through the thread didn't leave a whole lot of time for contemplation. I can say that no one struck me as more likely to be scum than jabber. I know a few people asked me specific questions, so I'll try to answer those in the meantime. Just gotta find 'em.
Please explain to me how this is wishy washy. Point out one thing in here that says that I'm willing to back off of him. One place where I say that I don't think it's the right lynch. Good luck.
As for jumping on the bandwagon (which, again, I've already covered in my previous post), I was one of the first people on the wagon. If I was scum, just sitting on a random bandwagon, then why would I get off of it and get back on it again? That makes no sense. I have a clear thought process outlined in my posts. This isn't just me jumping on whatever wagon suits my purposes, it's me deliberating and deciding that jabber was the best vote.
Finally, your posts definitely make me feel like you knew jabber was town before he flipped. You were making this giant post about how I was just jumping on a random bandwagon when YOU WERE VOTING FOR THE BANDWAGON and HE HADN'T FLIPPED YET. You knew before the lynch that he was going to flip green, because you don't get suspicious of someone for "jumping on the bandwagon" of someone you think is scum. That's something you find scummy after the flip, not before.
On May 29 2014 15:14 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2014 07:09 fuba wrote:
As for what he's said about MZ, I'd have to form an opinion of MZ for myself first XD Hey fuba, could we get one of these before night ends?
Yuppers. Probably. Definitely look at gobble, and let me know what you think.
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MZ read:
Odd that he says he'll be voting jabber in his first post, but doesn't vote him. As for his read on myself in the next few posts, I can understand it, given the TL mindset that uncertainty and the voicing of that uncertainty is way more a scum trait. Palmar's case on him is pretty null for me, since I see the MZ post that started it all to be pretty average. I don't see the scummy mindset that Palmar claims is there. Then he becomes suspicious of sqrt for being inconsistent and such, which I don't see as a strange read from MZ, though I don't think it necessarily makes sqrt scum, rather than a confused/perplexed townie like I was.
Overall, pretty null, slight scum lean for saying he's voting jabber but waiting forever to actually do it. Seems like he could have been fishing for a better lynch candidate, or he could have just forgotten XD
Refreshed and saw what SlOosh posted. I think the first quote is pretty irrelevant, since the evidence MZ used against sqrt in the second quote falls after the first one (I'm reasonably sure). But the second one definitely feels like something I'd only say as town if I was really sure I felt sqrt was scum, so the third quote is really suspicious. MZ doesn't say, "I'm no longer sure it makes sqrt scum", as if he's reassessed his opinion. He says he's not sure it makes him scum yet, as if he hasn't formed an opinion yet. Very strange considering that he made it clear that he'd given it some thought and already come to a conclusion.
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On May 30 2014 03:01 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2014 02:21 fuba wrote:On May 29 2014 15:14 slOosh wrote:On May 29 2014 07:09 fuba wrote:
As for what he's said about MZ, I'd have to form an opinion of MZ for myself first XD Hey fuba, could we get one of these before night ends? Yuppers. Probably. Definitely look at gobble, and let me know what you think. Nothing really eyebrow raising with what he has done, as much as what he hasn't. Given the circumstances of D1, most people fall under this so it's a matter of seeing how they contribute with the D2 lynch.
Situation:
Jabber is set to be lynched. Gobble votes jabber. I post a pretty null read about gobble. Gobble responds with what I can only assume is a scum read of me, with one of the reasons being that I jumped on the bandwagon of the same person that he is currently voting for. So before the flip, he's using my jabber vote as evidence of me being scum, even though according to his posts and vote he also thinks jabber is scum. Scum Fuba was one of the first people to jump on the easy scum jabber wagon. In what world does this make sense? A world in which gobble already knows that jabber is town.
(Side note: I've been thinking that I was second or third on the jabber wagon, rather than 4th. Anything I've said about "starting the wagon" is redacted XD I still feel that my point regarding gobble holds)
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So I spent a long time trying to make that post really clear, but I think it just came out really confusing.
Basically, gobble was claiming that I'm scummy for jumping on a wagon that he himself thought was going to lynch scum. This makes no sense unless he actually knows that jabber is town, and is letting that knowledge color his fake read of me. He essentially said, "You're scummy for jumping on this mislynch wagon." This only works if he already knows it's a mislynch.
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On May 30 2014 10:24 gobbledydook wrote:
wtf fuba stop misquoting my words
I never said you were scum for bandwagoning a mislynch
I said you were scum because of the way you backed the lynch.
Pretty much the only substantial posts you have were against me and that is because I questioned you directly. And I don't think you have answered my question about your stance on sqrtofneg unless I missed it?
I haven't misquoted you, but that's beside the point.
How did I back the lynch? And how is a person's reasoning regarding the lynch candidate insubstantial? Like, I'm aware I didn't comment on many other people. I find that irrelevant because you have all of my thoughts on the lynch. It's all incredibly straightforward. All very transparent.
I'll have more to say when I get home and can look at filters. I'll get tp your question too, which I apparently missed.
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I've gotta assume your question about sqrt is when you said that I needed to respond to his case. That is something that I've already done multiple times. I contributed my lynch target, I contributed my reasoning on my lynch target, and I hoped that he would flip scum so that I wouldn't have to deal with nonsense like this after D1. That is pretty much all I ever do D1, give or take random small comments if I have the time. If we disagree about what "contributing" means, we're going to keep doing so. I see no reason to form a read on every single person in the game on D1 when there is very little to go on, a lot of those reads will change because of the flip, and the majority of those reads are going to be really null for me, because I obsess and see possible explanations for situations that most people don't (An example is what I said about jabber's scumteam from last game knowing if he was lying. Amiko said only himself and scum should think about that, and yet I did.)
1) I think he is scum. He twists my words to make me look bad. He ignores my question and attacks me instead. If he were town I think he would respond to my questions more directly and cut the misrepresentation.
I ignored no questions, as you haven't asked me a question. you made a demand that I do something that I've already done repeatedly. You've actually ignored my questions. Repeatedly. I've also not twisted your words. I've looked at your words in context, and explained what they meant even if you didn't explicitly say it, as I saw them at the time. That is my means of scumhunting, a thing that only townies do.
I'd like an answer to my questions now.
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Now fuba, don't call the kettle black. Your vote didn't even come with any explanation whatsoever you just jumped on the bandwagon. Then when mderg questions you on your vote, you then come up with an explanation on why you changed from not lynching him to voting him. You hint at why you think he is guilty later on, without explicitly saying that *I think you are guilty because you are lying* or something like that. Why so non-committal?
sqrtofneg1 has a good point here, you haven't contributed all that much to town except for making non-committal statements about jabberwockzerg. I don't think your 'lol' and then your one line answer to his accusation is anywhere near enough.
This is your "case" against me. First, I didn't just "jump on the bandwagon". I was on the wagon already for the reasons I felt were clear from bunnies' filter, got off the bandwagon for reasons cited, and got back on. You imply that my vote came out of absolutely nowhere, when I'd been thinking about jabber since I first voted. Yes, my second vote didn't come with an explanation. I gave an explanation as soon as I was asked for it. A reason to find me scummy is for my reason itself to be scummy, not that I didn't immediately provide a reason along with my vote. That's done by town in every game I've ever played.
On May 28 2014 01:33 fuba wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2014 01:24 mderg wrote:
I don´t like this lynch at all. I don´t see what he did as alignment indicative because it doesn´t really make sense as either town or scum. So why is it more likely to be done by scum than by town?
fuba: Weren´t you against this lynch? Why the vote on jabberwockzerg now? My position was that since it made no sense to lie as either alignment, I felt it was more likely a mistake. And I felt that this mistake was more likely to come from town rather than scum. His defense, however, is that he was actually hiding information and encouraging a possibility that he knew for a fact was incorrect. That makes it scummy.
This quote explicitly states, "I think you are guilty because you are lying". I do, however, see now how you could confuse my uncertainty with the situation as someone trying to distance himself from a mislynch. I guess I wasn't really as sure as I believed myself to be, looking back.
On May 29 2014 06:35 fuba wrote:
Every vote wasn't on jabber. It's taken the majority of two days to get the vote to reach this point. There's been significant discussion about it, and there are legitimate reasons to consider him scum.
I'd also like to point out that jabber hasn't been defending himself or offering an alternative wagon for the last 20 hours or so. This tends to be a scum reaction to a large wagon building against them, rather than a town reaction.
If anyone has a specific person they'd like me to comment on, I might have time to squeeze in a filter dive before the deadline. My quick read through the thread didn't leave a whole lot of time for contemplation. I can say that no one struck me as more likely to be scum than jabber. I know a few people asked me specific questions, so I'll try to answer those in the meantime. Just gotta find 'em.
This is the quote that I believed made it clear that I was staying on jabber, and wanted others to do the same. Maybe it came too late to really mean anything to the rest of you. I could see that being the case now.
Anyway, I'm done defending myself because it's senseless, and I'm coming around to realizing why people would see my play as scummy. Just gonna come back tomorrow and reevaluate my read of gobble, then try to form reads on others without obsessing for hours XD
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I'm here. Catching up now. Anything in particular you'd like to discuss?
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I'm glad you mentioned sqrt, because he's someone who's stuck out to me.
His reason for unvoting jabber and voting palmar was that lynches like that end up being wrong. It turns out that he was right, but isn't that a really, really strange reason to unvote someone when you have legitimate reasons to believe he's scum in front of you? Then he swaps back to jabber in order to get more information, even though he thinks palmar is scummier. He then unvotes jabber because of his defense. Not the content of his defense, because that was scummy. He basically unvoted because jabber gave A reason. It wasn't a "too scummy to be scum" argument, it was just - he gave a reason, I think he's town. Then while interacting with Chrom, he says that he doesn't think jabber is town (except he actually did explicitly say "I think he's town now."), but he thinks there's a possibility that jabber is town. This is a really strange thing to say as town because unless someone is somehow modconfirmed scum, there is always the possibility that they're town. That's a given, it's understood by everyone. But he reiterates the fact that he thinks jabber is scummy, but might be town, but might also be scum, about 3-4 times.
There's also the fact that he says he wants to lynch jabber for the information earlier on in the day, and later says that he gained no information from the lynch. Clearly his reason for voting jabber at that time was bs, because if you've noticed something that will give you information based on jabber's flip, that thing doesn't just disappear.
Then there's his read of me. He suggests me as a possible scum wagon rivaling that of jabber. Seems to indicate that he's really sure of it. But when jabber flips town, which I would have expected to increase his scumread on me, he doesn't mention me at all. Nothing whatsoever until:
On May 30 2014 02:31 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
The gobble and fuba interaction really, really looks like town interacting with town.
This isn't something you say about your strong scumread.
However:
On May 30 2014 09:10 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Okay guys, I g2g, won't be back until tomorrow.
If I die:
You need to keep an eye on palmar, he needs to do more.
I like fuba, mderg, and amiko.
I'm back on his town list. On the same level as mderg and amiko, who I feel is almost positively town. I went from one of his top scumreads to one of his towniest reads, after the jabber lynch revealed that whatever small contributions I had were in favor of what turned out to be a mislynch. And even if I'm reading too much into me being on this list with amiko, he still considers me town. I don't see why this would be his reaction to the D1 lynch.
But the next day:
On May 31 2014 00:41 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Okay, town totem so far:
Me
Amiko
Bunnies
mderg
Haru
gobble
Palmar
fuba
MZ
sloosh
And slam isn't on there cause I literally have no idea.
Townies:
Amiko is making cases, and he's doing work. Town
Bunnies was talking a lot D1, not as much since, but still decent enough to townread.
Mderg is town.
Haru is probably town.
Fencies:
Gobble null read
Palmar - he picked it up now, I don't wanna lynch him cause he's actually asking questions and being useful.
Mafia:
Fuba
MZ
Sloosh
Suddenly I'm back on the scumlist. These are the only mentions of me after his case. This is more than just changing his mind, this is two unexplained and absolute reversals of his read - after an event that should have straight-up solidified his scumread of me if it was legitimate.
And finally there's the little things, like the fact that he started the game talking about himself being mafia, and that he seemed concerned about having said "I've rolled mafia twice" instead of "I've never rolled mafia except twice", when it would have been clear what he meant without the correction. And pointing out someone who might be blue even though there's no reason for town to do so.
I'm actually getting too tired to keep my eyes open at this point, so I'll leave it at this for now. I'll take a closer look at slOosh and MZ tomorrow, and see if I think either one is scummier than sqrt. I've read the cases, but haven't filtered them too well. In case it wasn't clear in my last post, I'm really unsure about gobble at this point. He did ignore my questions, he does feel like he's not reading everything I'm writing, and it feels like he's simply refusing to believe I could possibly be town. Could be stubborn, could be scum. I don't know anymore, and it seems like it's kinda off the table for the moment. Even if he is scum, there's two others out there so I'm looking for them for now.
##Vote: sqrtofneg1
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Oh god, fell asleep when I got home. It doesn't look like my vote will sway the lynch much, but I'll try to get my thoughts out before it happens :S
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##Unvote
Something that's bugging me about this lynch is that if slOosh and MZ are generally considered to be scummy in similar ways, then scum could vote for either of them for generally the same reasons. So if they're not both scum, then it's far more likely that today will be a mislynch. SlOosh's last post made me feel like he's town, because he gave his reads instead of just ditching the thread when he's pretty definitely getting lynched. It could be a scum ploy, but his comments about Amiko make me really uneasy about lynching him. He appears to be looking at his own lynch from a townie's eyes. He sees that there are two similar wagons and the driving force behind one being stronger than the other is Amiko. He warns us against trusting anything Amiko says about non-MZ lynches D3 because if SlOosh is town then he knows Amiko's actions have brought scum within one mislynch of winning. That last post from SlOosh is possibly one of the towniest things in the thread, imo, because I find that mentality to be something that's pretty difficult to fake. He doesn't just say "don't trust Amiko", as I believe scum would do, but he took it a step farther and said not to trust him if he tries to push anything other than MZ D3. That is what I find so townie about this post.
If I have to vote for one or the other, at the moment, I'd ##Vote: Meapak_Ziphh
It bugs me that Palmar hasn't returned to the thread before this lynch, since he's on the MZ wagon but said he's be up for a SlOosh lynch. Dunno if I find him scummy for it, but given my current view of this as a scum-controlled lynch, his absence is allowing what I believe is going to be a mislynch to happen over his top scumread.
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And to be clear, I've been reading Amiko as townie, but I feel that sloosh's reaction of considering him possibly scum because of the nature of this lynch makes sloosh more likely to be town.
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I'd go as far as to say that if you think they're both scummy, and the flip today is not going to affect your read on the other player (as pretty much everyone in the game has asserted), then we should lynch the one that hasn't had the strongest wagon during the day, simply because scum have had far more control in this situation than town has.
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Anyone here? Thoughts about what I've said?
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Do you not see the townie nature of that last post? It's written in a way that is clearly motivated by the idea that his lynch is a mislynch. I think I did the math wrong and scum actually need two mislynches after this if SlOosh is town, but either way the fact that he goes further and says that we should question non-MZ lynch suggestions from you indicates a townie mindset. He's thinking beyond just his own lynch, to what it will mean for the rest of us and the rest of the game. I find that scum tend to end their thoughts at their lynch more often than not. Also, looking through SlOosh's filter, I don't really find him as scummy as I thought MZ could be yesterday.
The "nature of the lynch" is that it came down to two players who are considered suspicious for very similar things, and the fact that SlOosh is the wagon we landed on makes me think it's what scum would prefer.
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This isn't a "too easy" argument from me. It's the argument that between two players that are relatively identical according to the reads of most players in the thread, this is the wagon that at least two scum are on. This lynch feels more uncertain than yesterday's, and more dangerous.
Hm, I guess it almost is a "too easy" argument, but I think the point still stands. And yes, I read people as town based on single posts all the time. If the rest of their filter is pretty "meh" to me, Seeing what I feel is a clear town mindset pretty much makes them town unless I have to completely reevaluate my reads and start from the beginning.
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On June 01 2014 09:34 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Both MZ and sloosh are the same level of scummyness in my eyes. I went for the non majority.
This is the kind of thing that makes me say that it's a scum controlled lynch. It seems as though most people feel similarly to sqrt here, so their votes are more free-flowing. I think Amiko is town, but that doesn't mean that he is infallible, and in this case I think he's wrong about SlOosh. However, his pushing for SlOosh is all scum needed to squeeze onto that wagon rather than MZ's.
Looking at SlOosh's last post again, even the "Watch out for busses tomorrow" bit seems like a superfluous statement that wouldn't come from scum.
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I'm really not used to my words having this much impact... Either way, I feel better about SlOosh being town than scum, so since it's between these two I'm sticking with it.
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Rofl!
Well, at least I wasn't completely off. I was right about gobble earlier XD
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EPT
