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TL 'Order' LXVI Mafia - Page 122

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38797 Posts
June 13 2014 21:26 GMT
#2421
I wont be doing much thread manipulation this day. Mafia depression.
I had a good night of sleep.
Rainbows
Profile Joined March 2013
Germany1217 Posts
June 13 2014 22:08 GMT
#2422
So I haven't read really anything that happened during the night. Only guy I'm surprised didn't die is Marv, but I'll assume that mafia are medic dodging.

But here is scum. I noticed after he voted me so I wanted to figure out why. Haru is mafia

This post here:
On June 11 2014 21:11 HaruRH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 11 2014 20:46 yamato77 wrote:
I'll quote Ver's analysis RE: VA

-I don’t think I’ve verbalized my intuition fully on Vayne so here goes: Terrible filter, fits mafia profile (deduced from atmosphere/limited interference in lynches) exactly. Ever present but barely playing. Constantly complains about the thread quality but spends all of his time talking about blue roles and irrelevant nonsense, which is a massive incongruency. Caller’s point quoted above is also very good.


And what has he done so far this game?

On June 11 2014 07:20 VayneAuthority wrote:
alrighty well the thread is already too long so I just skipped it, I assume its mostly early game spam. I'll start reading from this point on.


On June 11 2014 09:59 VayneAuthority wrote:
this game is giving me a migraine ill let you know when i start reading it again


While I agree with the sentiment expressed, it's still the same sort of hypocritical nonsense that Ver so accurately pointed out. VA as mafia loves to complain and argue about pointless shit. VA as town would have just posted what he thought about someone/something, right or wrong, and been done with it.

Of course, it's only two posts, but it's a solid lead.

##Vote: VayneAuthority

I'll be looking at Koshi and Chairman more in depth soon. I think they are town, but there is sentiment expressed that this is not the case, and I wish to solve the matter.


Uh.... you seemed to miss the point. Ver used BOTH points as a combination of factors. Even if VA is about to turn into a blue post craping whore, the truth is he haven't. You either jumped the gun too early, or you are trying to shoot him before he turned, which leads into 2 outcomes : 1) He WILL turn 2)You are just trying to shoot for the heck of it.

Show nested quote +
On June 11 2014 20:52 yamato77 wrote:
On June 11 2014 20:46 Holyflare wrote:
The pressure votes, overwhelming.

+ Show Spoiler +
not here till Thursday!

Oh yeah, by the way, this is exactly what mafia Holyflare does. He afks for most of the early game, and then comes in later with all his tryhard worked up. See Survivor for a perfect example. I theorize that he does this as mafia because he finds it difficult to post early on as mafia (which is a tricky thing to do convincingly), so he just skips it, takes the heat for being afk, and then makes up for it with his ability to post long posts full of reasonable-sounding things later on.

He could be legitimately busy, but his posts show he's obviously reading the thread, just not actively participating. Regardless of the manner of his return, he is definitely up there in terms of mafia candidates for this sort of play, simply given his history with this exact pattern.


Uh... stop?

Show nested quote +
On June 11 2014 20:53 yamato77 wrote:
On June 11 2014 20:49 marvellosity wrote:
On June 11 2014 20:46 yamato77 wrote:
I'll quote Ver's analysis RE: VA

-I don’t think I’ve verbalized my intuition fully on Vayne so here goes: Terrible filter, fits mafia profile (deduced from atmosphere/limited interference in lynches) exactly. Ever present but barely playing. Constantly complains about the thread quality but spends all of his time talking about blue roles and irrelevant nonsense, which is a massive incongruency. Caller’s point quoted above is also very good.


And what has he done so far this game?

On June 11 2014 07:20 VayneAuthority wrote:
alrighty well the thread is already too long so I just skipped it, I assume its mostly early game spam. I'll start reading from this point on.


On June 11 2014 09:59 VayneAuthority wrote:
this game is giving me a migraine ill let you know when i start reading it again


While I agree with the sentiment expressed, it's still the same sort of hypocritical nonsense that Ver so accurately pointed out. VA as mafia loves to complain and argue about pointless shit. VA as town would have just posted what he thought about someone/something, right or wrong, and been done with it.

Of course, it's only two posts, but it's a solid lead.

##Vote: VayneAuthority

I'll be looking at Koshi and Chairman more in depth soon. I think they are town, but there is sentiment expressed that this is not the case, and I wish to solve the matter.

you're completely missing the 2nd half of Ver's analysis, i.e. spending all his time talking about roles and other shit, which is the massive incongruency, and the incongruency is why he was mafia. That incongruency doesn't exist here because he's not doing anything else either. So using Ver to back up your read is pretty dodgerific

I really have no interest in your opinion.


Stop.

Show nested quote +
On June 11 2014 20:53 yamato77 wrote:
On June 11 2014 20:53 Holyflare wrote:
I have law exams that end tomorrow yamato

That doesn't mean you aren't mafia anyway.


I really mean it, stop.

Show nested quote +
On June 11 2014 20:56 yamato77 wrote:
On June 11 2014 20:53 marvellosity wrote:
then you're still fucking terrible.

There still exists an incongruity. Vayne is complaining about the quality of the game yet is actually making it worse with the way he posts.

Vayne's towngame does not consist of complaint posts. He doesn't care about the state of the thread when he's town. He just plays the game.


I'll quote Ver's analysis RE: VA

Show nested quote +
-I don’t think I’ve verbalized my intuition fully on Vayne so here goes: Terrible filter, fits mafia profile (deduced from atmosphere/limited interference in lynches) exactly. Ever present but barely playing. Constantly complains about the thread quality but spends all of his time talking about blue roles and irrelevant nonsense, which is a massive incongruency. Caller’s point quoted above is also very good.


MASSIVE INCONGRUENCY.

Show nested quote +
On June 11 2014 21:04 yamato77 wrote:
On June 11 2014 20:59 Holyflare wrote:
On June 11 2014 20:56 yamato77 wrote:
On June 11 2014 20:55 Holyflare wrote:
On June 11 2014 20:53 yamato77 wrote:
On June 11 2014 20:53 Holyflare wrote:
I have law exams that end tomorrow yamato

That doesn't mean you aren't mafia anyway.


Silly sausage! If i don't post it's because i have a reason

We'll see.


Well no because now if i return with try hard you will say "see! Classic mafia". If i don't you'll say "he doesn't care, classic mafia!"

If you're going to use meta don't use unequivocally wrong ones. Or you can just be mafia and continue with it.

If you don't have time to play, then why are you arguing with me about your alignment right now?

I don't have to believe your reasons for your inactivity. And no, my analysis of your play so far involves no catch-22, because your being afk as mafia happens exclusively in the early game. Later in the game, you obviously play legitimately. You might be afk early on as town and then come back and play legitimately. But noting the pattern is important because it's a 30 player game, so I need to narrow my focus down to a small enough range of people to where I really don't have to analyze every post.


...

Show nested quote +
On June 11 2014 21:04 yamato77 wrote:
tl;dr I'm watching you, HF


I'M WATCHING YOU YAMATO.


is scummy to high heavens. Does he do an analysis of yamato based on his play? No. Is he discerning his alignment? Doesn't appear to. All he says is 'stop that' and that he's watching Yamato. What is the purpose of this post from a townie perspective? The only thing I could think of is pressure--but it harasses a player without any insight of what side he is playing for. Haru isn't trying to convince anyone that Yamato is mafia, so there is no town purpose to this post.

After these jabs at Yamato, he votes for CR here:
On June 11 2014 18:42 HaruRH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 11 2014 18:36 marvellosity wrote:
On June 11 2014 12:51 Rainbows wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On June 11 2014 09:20 Chairman Ray wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 11 2014 08:53 Tehpoofter wrote:
On June 11 2014 08:51 Koshi wrote:
I voted Tica because I dislike him more. More words does not equal bigger scumread.

I still think my post was pretty good. Reason:
I think my towns are town.
My questionables good pressures points.

I will continue my quest tomorrow.


His recent posts backing up your wolf lean on him? How do you feel about Marv/Sandroba/JaT not liking your post at all? You think thats alignment indicative for any of them?

Also You're doing a poor job of try harding if you make one post a day. Please don't go Cephiro mode on me.


If Koshi is heading out for the night, I'm just gonna chime in now.

Koshi's big analysis post reads pretty scummy to me. His mafia reads seem pretty sincere and thought out, but his town reads are very short. Whether or not he believes them himself is not evident, but it doesn't convey much to the reader. My initial thinking is that his townreads serve to 'bulk' up his post. I've seen a lot of mafia in previous games iterate through people and give a quick impression of them without a well thought out read on them. This gives the impression that they are active and their posts are longer without actually having to do a lot of investigation.

What strikes me odd was his next post:

Show nested quote +
On June 11 2014 08:16 Koshi wrote:
No sorry my towns are town.


Koshi posted this in response to the people that were dismissive of his reads. This is a very important distinction because people react differently when they are opposed by analysis and when they are opposed by a one liner. In this case, most people just posted a quick one liner dismissing him.

From Koshi's perspective, if he just gave out a few quick impressions without a lot of thought, he wouldn't have any sort of attachment or loyalty to his post. His response to the critics would be something like "Those were just my gut feelings at the moment, they may change by the end of the day". Instead, he dismissed the critics with a one liner post containing no new information by posting "No sorry my towns are town". It may be hard to read into on forum mafia, but to me he sounds a bit frustrated and doesn't feel his critics doesn't deserve any more than a one liner. If this is the case, then Koshi has some genuine belief of his townreads, and regardless of the quality of his reads or how he conveyed them, this seems more town to me.

tl;dr I disagree with Koshi's townreads, even though I am among them; I disagree with Sandroba that Koshi is mafia.


I don't get CR's goal with his postings. he comes to no conclusion, just that some post made koshi scummy but his next post made him more town. So is he mafia or town for CR at this point?

I care not that CR is posting intelligently (this is a good thing!!!), but there's a bunch of text with seemingly no bite involved atm

yes, i agree with this i think.


I read through 30+ pages of 'stuff' and the huge post by koshi and the reads off koshi's posts were striking to me.

CR seems like trying to earn some towncred by pointing out koshi first, so that in the future he can use this as a reference to how towny he is.


Town totem: Chrom, batsnacks.

Everyone else is hard to read. They make towny posts, then destroy their own image by making themselves look scummy.


On June 12 2014 05:29 HaruRH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2014 05:19 gumshoe wrote:
On June 12 2014 05:08 Chromatically wrote:
gumshoe, I couldn't help but notice that your post is lacking a read on Koshi. Care to indulge me?


I liked your push onto him, but I'm not a fan of how quickly the wagon picked up speed. That and alota people I don't like have been taking sucker punches at Koshi throughout the game ( namely chairman). As for the contradiction, it looks bad, but as someone who contradicts himself constantly I can totally see it coming out of town Koshi. Lastly, saying your gonna play awesome then not posting for ages is sorta asking to get lynched, scum Koshi is more careful that that / : I could be wrong( not a foreign state for me ) but at the moment I much rather lynch chair and I'd like to see what Koshi contributes while not under threat of lynch.


I can agree with gumshoe on CR. Like I mentioned, CR's initial attack on koshi seemed to be gathering towncred in later stages of the game by referencing to it. I don't see a need for town to do it.

All the votes on koshi were... weird. Rainbows and ticatica just sat on the koshiwagon and drove off together. Not a good sign tbh.

My vote on koshi is a placeholder.
Now that he deviates off his HUGE ASS POST PLAYMAKER style, he seemed to be more obnoxious than ever. Its hard to find obnoxious scum who might succumb to a policy lynch.

##Vote:Chairman Ray


My problem arises with the bolded. Just read it over, slowly. Does it make any sense whatsoever? Apparently, it seemed as if CR is attacking Koshi in order to gain towncred LATER in the game? I don't think this analysis makes any sense whatsoever. What townie in this game came to that same conclusion, please tell me. I didn't. "Oh, CR must be attacing Koshi first so he can use it as towncred later" WHAT? CR was scummy, but not for this reason at all. The reference to his Koshi vote as a 'placeholder' is additionally acts as a buffer for scrutiny. *assume koshi flips town at some point* "Why were you voting Koshi D1?" "Oh it was just a placeholder no worries!"
On June 12 2014 18:00 HaruRH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2014 17:55 Palmar wrote:
Very sneaky voting man this Haru.


I thought I said the vote on CR from me was a placeholder? SnB have some weird posts, will link them here in one sec, Filter dived him today.


So now CR is a placeholder vote? Scummy as balls.

Then he provides shoddy reasoning for calling snb scum.
On June 12 2014 18:05 HaruRH wrote:
After diving SnB, I realised the pool is so shallow theres no need to bring a snorkel. So here's why SnB makes me wanna lynch the scum out of him:

Show nested quote +
On June 11 2014 23:41 strongandbig wrote:
Finished reading through page 48 on phone
Have to go to work
Some notes to calm thy tits, thread:
Townish:
- chromatically

Scummish:
- palmar not trying on day 1
- koshi for pretty random townreads and listpost
- rainbows bad reasoning for scum read on koshi. Tries to make something shitty up, indicates he's not comfortable just agreeing with good reasoning already posted - indicates selfconscious mafia.

Good args:
- chromatically on why sinani is scum
- mz on why round is scum
- koshi on why tica is scum
- (sort of good) round on why ketomi is scum


Show nested quote +
On June 12 2014 04:55 strongandbig wrote:
Blergh caught up with the thread and lunch is over
[complain about spam, maybe if I do it more it's likely to work]

Anyway, I would kill koshi right now. Don't have anything new to add, I like chromatic ally's case

Also would still kill rainbows


soo... He thinks koshi makes good arguments, then want to lynch koshi.

Show nested quote +
On June 12 2014 04:17 strongandbig wrote:
On June 11 2014 13:31 batsnacks wrote:
On June 11 2014 13:26 Chairman Ray wrote:
On June 11 2014 13:23 batsnacks wrote:
Chairman, without reading the above post, I really wish both your posts about me weren't perfectly sequential dissections of literally everything I said.


Sorry, I'll try to keep it brief from now on. You can just read the "Overall" statement at the end


Look I like everything you said I think it's great. I read the whole thing. You got an A+ on your homework for sure. I really, really, really hate that you commented on everything I said in the order I said it in both posts though. If you are mafia which I think you probably are, that's the only thing you should have changed to make it better.

This is stupid.

There's nothing wrong with an in-depth post by post analysis and the fact that newer players don't know this is just a sign of how spammy and annoying the meta has gotten .


Then he shitposts.


It's interesting that Haru calls my reasons for voting SnB terrible, but in the same breath can post something like the above with almost no analysis whatsoever. It reaks of keeping doors open.

WARNING, SCUMMIEST POST IN THREAD INCOMING:

+ Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2014 21:18 HaruRH wrote:
Heck, I'll even help you make a huge post on why we should all lynch Haru.

Firstly, this haru guy don't even

Show nested quote +
On June 12 2014 05:29 HaruRH wrote:
On June 12 2014 05:19 gumshoe wrote:
On June 12 2014 05:08 Chromatically wrote:
gumshoe, I couldn't help but notice that your post is lacking a read on Koshi. Care to indulge me?


I liked your push onto him, but I'm not a fan of how quickly the wagon picked up speed. That and alota people I don't like have been taking sucker punches at Koshi throughout the game ( namely chairman). As for the contradiction, it looks bad, but as someone who contradicts himself constantly I can totally see it coming out of town Koshi. Lastly, saying your gonna play awesome then not posting for ages is sorta asking to get lynched, scum Koshi is more careful that that / : I could be wrong( not a foreign state for me ) but at the moment I much rather lynch chair and I'd like to see what Koshi contributes while not under threat of lynch.


I can agree with gumshoe on CR. Like I mentioned, CR's initial attack on koshi seemed to be gathering towncred in later stages of the game by referencing to it. I don't see a need for town to do it.

All the votes on koshi were... weird. Rainbows and ticatica just sat on the koshiwagon and drove off together. Not a good sign tbh.

My vote on koshi is a placeholder. Now that he deviates off his HUGE ASS POST PLAYMAKER style, he seemed to be more obnoxious than ever. Its hard to find obnoxious scum who might succumb to a policy lynch.

##Vote:Chairman Ray


contribute

Show nested quote +
On June 12 2014 05:43 HaruRH wrote:
On June 12 2014 05:40 Koshi wrote:
On June 12 2014 05:29 HaruRH wrote:
On June 12 2014 05:19 gumshoe wrote:
On June 12 2014 05:08 Chromatically wrote:
gumshoe, I couldn't help but notice that your post is lacking a read on Koshi. Care to indulge me?


I liked your push onto him, but I'm not a fan of how quickly the wagon picked up speed. That and alota people I don't like have been taking sucker punches at Koshi throughout the game ( namely chairman). As for the contradiction, it looks bad, but as someone who contradicts himself constantly I can totally see it coming out of town Koshi. Lastly, saying your gonna play awesome then not posting for ages is sorta asking to get lynched, scum Koshi is more careful that that / : I could be wrong( not a foreign state for me ) but at the moment I much rather lynch chair and I'd like to see what Koshi contributes while not under threat of lynch.


I can agree with gumshoe on CR. Like I mentioned, CR's initial attack on koshi seemed to be gathering towncred in later stages of the game by referencing to it. I don't see a need for town to do it.

All the votes on koshi were... weird. Rainbows and ticatica just sat on the koshiwagon and drove off together. Not a good sign tbh.

My vote on koshi is a placeholder. Now that he deviates off his HUGE ASS POST PLAYMAKER style, he seemed to be more obnoxious than ever. Its hard to find obnoxious scum who might succumb to a policy lynch.

##Vote:Chairman Ray

CR defended me from the get-go. The posts he made around me were also extremely thought out. If you are referring to him saying my post looked scummy than that is because he actually thought it looked scummy. But after that he gave reasons to why he thinks I am town. If I remember correctly from a previous game CR is capable to make big thought out post as scum, but he is more disconnected with the thread while doing so, he just pops in with huge ass posts. In this game he is having good thought out opinions in the moment. I wouldn't lynch him.

Those other 2 names in your post, Rainbows and TicaTica, those are the people that are interesting.


Meta argument is something I cannot push upon since I don't know much about anyone yet. So I'll just assume that koshi is correct about CR's play. I'll stay with this vote until someone more scummy pops out.


At

Show nested quote +
On June 12 2014 18:05 HaruRH wrote:
After diving SnB, I realised the pool is so shallow theres no need to bring a snorkel. So here's why SnB makes me wanna lynch the scum out of him:

On June 11 2014 23:41 strongandbig wrote:
Finished reading through page 48 on phone
Have to go to work
Some notes to calm thy tits, thread:
Townish:
- chromatically

Scummish:
- palmar not trying on day 1
- koshi for pretty random townreads and listpost
- rainbows bad reasoning for scum read on koshi. Tries to make something shitty up, indicates he's not comfortable just agreeing with good reasoning already posted - indicates selfconscious mafia.

Good args:
- chromatically on why sinani is scum
- mz on why round is scum
- koshi on why tica is scum
- (sort of good) round on why ketomi is scum


On June 12 2014 04:55 strongandbig wrote:
Blergh caught up with the thread and lunch is over
[complain about spam, maybe if I do it more it's likely to work]

Anyway, I would kill koshi right now. Don't have anything new to add, I like chromatic ally's case

Also would still kill rainbows


soo... He thinks koshi makes good arguments, then want to lynch koshi.

On June 12 2014 04:17 strongandbig wrote:
On June 11 2014 13:31 batsnacks wrote:
On June 11 2014 13:26 Chairman Ray wrote:
On June 11 2014 13:23 batsnacks wrote:
Chairman, without reading the above post, I really wish both your posts about me weren't perfectly sequential dissections of literally everything I said.


Sorry, I'll try to keep it brief from now on. You can just read the "Overall" statement at the end


Look I like everything you said I think it's great. I read the whole thing. You got an A+ on your homework for sure. I really, really, really hate that you commented on everything I said in the order I said it in both posts though. If you are mafia which I think you probably are, that's the only thing you should have changed to make it better.

This is stupid.

There's nothing wrong with an in-depth post by post analysis and the fact that newer players don't know this is just a sign of how spammy and annoying the meta has gotten .


Then he shitposts.


ALL.

Then, this haru guy dont even defend himself

Show nested quote +
On June 12 2014 20:43 HaruRH wrote:
On June 12 2014 20:31 marvellosity wrote:
by and large Haru was very earnest and straightforward in Detention (as well as kinda fun at the start), whereas i'm not really seeing any of that here.


So you're meta-ing me based on 1 game? Lol thats the reason why I'm changing now, to avoid further meta reads.

Not going to streamline my play into 1 category lol


Thus I deduce this haru guy is scum 100%. ##Vote: HaruRH



Oh my God. How did nobody look at the before, what in God's name is this terrible post. Haru posted this when somebody said they wanted to lynch him D1 for not contributing (or something). This is his response. Haru literally just quotes posts he made and says "I contribute a lot". This is actually fine, but examine for a moment the way he goes about it. The post is completely sarcastic and not serious. Imagine Haru is town and is under pressure for not contributing. I don't think the response is the same. Mafia Haru is nervous, doesn't want his self-defense to be overly defending himself because that's what mafia do--hard defend themselves against small allegations. Instead, he chooses to guise his post in sarcasm in order to alleviate tension. This post screams mafia insecurity.

Haru is Mafia for the following reasons:

- Blatant insecurity about his image, using sarcasm in order to deflect pressure off of himself. Calling his votes placeholders do he does not have to commit.

- Ignoring the KotC case completely. Town would probably weigh in, but scum are afraid to be wishy-washy about the issue concerning their scum partner. Scum do not want to vote their guy, OR appear to not want to vote him. Avoidance is the best way to do this.

- Keeping multiple avenues open during D1 for lynches. Town do this, so do I, I didn't care if we lynched like 10 different people. But Haru posts very thin or nonsensical reasons for his 'suspects' (CR gaining towncred later with koshi pressure lolwut). Town would just be like "ok ill lynch this guy because lurk / because shitpost / because giant douche". The way Haru tries to rationalize the CR vote makes little sense to me. ALL of his votes have been either "not serious" (Koshi, himself) or really bad reasoning (CR), or epic sheepmode on Ritosky.

- OMGUS Voting myself, an easy town mislynch, by going hard after the wishy-washy post I made about KotC OMGUS.
Alakaslam
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States17336 Posts
June 13 2014 22:27 GMT
#2423
HAH!

U maf u all u skrd bros

Hahaha

W8st Kp, W8st Kp!!!
If you think Elon Musk is a Nazi, it is because YOU radicalized him!
Alakaslam
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States17336 Posts
June 13 2014 22:30 GMT
#2424
I frikkn love WIFOM
If you think Elon Musk is a Nazi, it is because YOU radicalized him!
kushm4sta
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States8878 Posts
June 13 2014 22:34 GMT
#2425
alakaslam is town
OMGUS.net, kush sex blogs every friday night
Alakaslam
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States17336 Posts
June 13 2014 22:35 GMT
#2426
HIJOLE first geript then u why?

I DINNAE WANT READ TO HAPPEN
If you think Elon Musk is a Nazi, it is because YOU radicalized him!
roundabound
Profile Joined February 2014
Niue881 Posts
June 13 2014 22:37 GMT
#2427
So....

The problem I had, still have, and may continue to experience with Ketomai is: for every attempt at contribution he makes, there is an additional of self-flagellation.

This is on par with the renown "newbie claim" where you sell yourself as inexperienced in the hopes of being ignored, and thus, blending in - the sacred mafia goal to survival.

TL;DR
Ketomai is actively attempting to blend in. Whilst this can be a town trait; Ketomai juggles this performance with fabricated arguments that are both simple to disprove and extremely superficial. Thus, I can only attribute this recurring behaviour to rolling mafia.


Pre KotC lynch
On June 11 2014 11:38 ketomai wrote:
I'm going to place my vote with roundabound until I can catch up with the thread. Exo is the one running against him and there's not much that indicates scum for me yet.

I'll post again tomorrow after work with some more detailed opinion.

This thread is incredibly hard to read/follow on my phone.

On June 11 2014 11:51 ketomai wrote:
@roundabout I skimmed both situations and you were the more likely one of the two; I thought that should've been obvious. I'm casting the vote early in case something happens so I don't get instant modkilled. Obviously when I'm done reading the thread and thinking about things I'll most probably give my opinions and change it up. Until then, you can pretty much disregard my vote for you as filler after a cursory glance at both situations.

On June 11 2014 12:10 ketomai wrote:
Well, whether or not my belief is incorrect or not doesn't matter because it's inconsequential. I'm trying to reassure you because you're so up in arms about it but you can do what you want, I don't really care.

Again, I'll post a more detailed analysis if I can get home early enough to read tomorrow. I'm done replying to you for now!

On June 12 2014 12:33 ketomai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 12 2014 11:29 ObiWanShinobi wrote:
i noticed poofter's post on ketomai and i realized that ketomai still hasnt done anything and should still probably die. more votes on him pls.


I'm here and I realize you're just pressuring me to respond, but reading 50 straight pages of mostly spam is honestly exhausting (and impossible for me after a long day at work). I gave up in the middle and just took a cursory glance through filters and whatnot for current top votes. I also took a look at a few other people that showed up near the beginning of the thread. I'll try to keep up with the thread from now on. Hopefully there's less spam in the future because missing 1 day so far seems to be catastrophic.

Top votes:

Koshi: Leaning slightly towards mafia. Biggest flag is his lack of cooperation with town as noted by others. He doesn't really argue, he just tries to pass off his viewpoints on the grounds that it should be obvious. I'm willing to wait on how he responds now that he's under pressure now and after he's promised to be more cooperative, however. He hasn't really contributed much other than defending himself. Also, I disagree with pretty much everything he says, but that doesn't really make him more or less mafia.

Exo: Leaning slightly towards town. He doesn't spam up the thread and has only posted the few times he's confident in his opinion. However, his last post that also contained his vote jumped to a conclusion really fast without much evidence. The way he said it leaves room for change, like my own vote, so I'm also not too suspicious of that. It feels more like he honestly doesn't know who to vote for because there's so much spam/finger pointing as a newer player.

Roundabout: No read. When he was attacking me earlier I thought he was doing that to everyone to create some chaos, but after looking through the filters he hasn't really done much past the early game. The point about him not contributing much is true, but not enough grounds to seem mafia yet; the game is early. The jump on me was a bit strange since I, personally, felt it was useless garbage spamming up the thread, but I'll ignore that. I would like to see him post more now that the "heat" is off of him.

strongandbig: Seems a little bit like mafia. Would be the easy pick to vote but I'd love to see him defend himself first because like my suspicions for every one else after 1 day, I'm not sure. If anything, a lynch wouldn't be so bad just because he's not productive/working w/ the town.

ritoky: Currently seems like mafia to me. He's on consistently throughout the day (his posts are very spread out), yet he doesn't really seem to contribute or address the game at all. He's just tunnel visioning Chromatically with nearly all his posts (who I personally have tagged as slightly town, so I naturally disagree with most of what he's saying).

Chairman Ray: slightly town. So far everything he posts is pretty logical. I disagree a bit with his leaps on roundabout, but he's defended himself and arguments pretty well, so I like that. He brings up his own arguments to add to town discussion as well, which is usually good if they make sense.

MZ: Other than furthering the VA lynchwagon (unless I missed some great post about it), not enough info, no read.


Anyway I made a post because I promised it, but as you can see my knowledge of the thread is not very thorough yet. You should view these as my initial thoughts. I feel strongest about ritoky out of the people I checked so I'll vote on him for now to get him to speak out.

Another issue I have with this post is the focus on people that have votes.
I get on one hand that a time-poor person *may* go straight to the vote counts.
On the other hand, I can not fathom why a townie that is not literate with the thread would trust the votes of ANY person to then perform this analysis.

Again, for every positive action ketomai makes; it is self-countered with a more significant negative.



Post KotC lynch
On June 13 2014 11:57 ketomai wrote:
Nice job on the lynch. In light of that lynch, it changes my opinions on a lot of people and made me look at others. Of those here are the ones that concern me most:

sinani: I'm feeling mafia on this one.

-KoC admitted after he got lynched that he's quite bad in mafia. It's not out of the question that some of his early defenses could be actual mafia. He went along with KoC's badly supported agenda on batsnacks.
-He voted for KoC at the tipping point after it became pretty clear that KoC was going to get lynched already. He actually soft defended KoC before that and then after a couple more votes came in and KoC surpassed SnB, he conceded.

Show nested quote +
On June 13 2014 02:29 sinani206 wrote:
On June 13 2014 02:14 VayneAuthority wrote:
On June 13 2014 01:48 Amiko wrote:
Vote Count - Day 1:


Palmar (0): batsnacks
yamato77 (0): Palmar
roundabound (1): ObiWanShinobi, Tehpoofter, batsnacks, Chairman Ray, Bill Murray, Bill Murray, ketomai
sinani206 (0): Chromatically, Tehpoofter
Koshi (2): TicaTica, Tehpoofter, Rainbows, HaruRH, Chromatically, sinani206
TicaTica (0): Koshi
ExO_ (1): sandroba, Tehpoofter, kushm4sta
HolyFlare (0): Tehpoofter, Palmar
Bill Murray (0): roundabound
ketomai (2): ObiWanShinobi, Tehpoofter, Tehpoofter, roundabound
batsnacks (0): Chairman Ray, TheKingOfTheCats, Alakaslam
Meapak_Ziphh (1): Mattisfoolish, Bill Murray, Koshi
tehpoofter (1): Bill Murray, Palmar, VayneAuthority
strongandbig (7): Bill Murray, Palmar, Rainbows, Chairman Ray, ketomai, Alakaslam, HaruRH, Koshi
Chairman Ray (1): HaruRH, gumshoe, ExO_
Marvellosity (0): Tehpoofter
VayneAuthority (3): yamato77, kushm4sta, Meapak_Ziphh
Chromatically (1): ritoky
ritoky (0): ketomai
kushm4sta (3): ObiWanShinobi, HolyFlare, TheKingOfTheCats, ExO_
justanothertownie (0): Koshi, Palmar
ObiWanShinobi (1): TicaTica
TheKingOfTheCats (4): marvellosity, Palmar, justanothertownie, ObiWanShinobi

Not voting (2): Erandorr, strongandbig



Currently strongandbig is set to be lynched with 7 votes! Day will end in

Remember: Voting is mandatory and has to be done in this thread:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451311-tl-order-lxvi-thread-for-doing-of-the-voting
If there is a tie, the first person to reach that number of votes is lynched.

Please contact the mods if the vote count is incorrect. Thank you!


votes on me or kush at this point in the day are just lazy, save that pool of players for further use.


So it's lazy to still have votes on some of the leftover wagons because they should be concentrated on people who are actually going to be lynched, yet you are still the only person on poof? I'm not accusing you of anything, but I don't really see this as lazy. Can you elaborate?


Here, he's suggesting that there's nothing wrong with votes on ended bandwagons. Notice where his own vote is when he says this (on the antiquated Koshi wagon). While being on an inactive bandwagon is not exactly a 100% mafia tell (I am guilty as well), being present while having such a vote and being content with it is a lot more mafia. He also does not change his vote or provide any analysis aside from:

Show nested quote +
On June 13 2014 02:30 sinani206 wrote:
On June 13 2014 02:30 marvellosity wrote:
Look. I think KoC has a really good chance of flipping mafia. I think people should vote for him.

I don't really think s&b is mafia.

If there needs to be an alternative wagon, I think it should be ketomai.


I'm not opposed to a ketomai lynch.


Here it's already apparent that KoC is the case that should be focused on here yet he ignores marv (and marv called him out on it) and just tries to bring up my case again. He doesn't actually "investigate" KoC until he gets called out on ignoring it. In fact, the people he has problems with in his post history are myself and koshi, who a lot of people were attacking anyway. I obviously know I'm not mafia and I'm starting to think Koshi is less mafia, which makes his cases even more suspicious to me personally.

Anyway, besides that just look at his filter. He's basically contributed nothing while going for the easy low hanging fruits. That combined with his suspicious voting and lack of proactivity in analyzing big cases or any cases makes me think he's mafia.

+ Show Spoiler +

Exo: starting to think he's more mafia

On June 13 2014 00:40 ExO_ wrote:
I actually agree on Kush. When I read his filter, it doesn't even look like he's trying to play. He responded to Obi and HF by saying they should lynch him, and he's the jester. I'm not sure whether to interpret this as him being sarcastic and dismissive, or him just not wanting to play this game. Either way, I don't see him as being helpful in the future if he is going to continue like this.

##unvote

##Vote kushm4sta


I'm having a very hard time determining what should indicate mafia, and what should indicate town (especially since it's day 1 and nothing has actually happened yet.) I'm forming opinions of people easily enough, but just thinking, for example, that marvel can be very rude doesn't make him mafia. And people who have been helpful and kind aren't necessarily town.


Similarly to sinani, he ignores a lot of big cases. In this post he ignores the KoC train while it's happening (and never addresses it despite being there the whole time) for almost a policy lynch on kush (with not much evidence given). He also in this post milks the newbie card, that everyone has been giving him a pass for, a little too much. For someone who's having a hard time "[indicating] who's mafia", he doesn't seem to put much effort into finding them. His accusations usually do not have a lot of backing, and in this case, his lack of accusations over the course of the whole day combined with that puts him over the top for me.

I find this an extremely miscontrued and fabricated depiction of Sinani.
Firstly, Ketomai takes issue that Sinani did not consider KotC as a lynch, inferring anyone who does not vote scum: equivocates to scum.
Secondly, he completely ignores the fact that Sinani made a case on both Koshi and Ketomai.
Guess what.. those are the two people Sinani was willing to vote vote (as proven by Ketomais plucked Sinani quotes).

On June 13 2014 12:01 ketomai wrote:
Also, for both of those people, they have not actually posted much. It's much less than I thought at first because they have been discussed as potential mafia during the very beginnings of the game. The common theme here is they are laying pretty low without stepping up with any original content. Both are present during the crucial moments before the lynch and do not participate despite clearly paying attention to the game before and during that point.

Here ketomai takse the easy road; suggesting lack of participation = mafia, GG.
There is no link to mindset in existing filter.
I find superficial arguments like this tend to come from very bad town, or mafia.
Clearly I tend towards the latter.

On June 13 2014 13:19 ketomai wrote:
See, everyone just says I'm mafia without providing a good reason. I'm not against people calling me mafia if they think so, but with so many people doing it without what most would consider solid reasoning yet, it becomes detrimental to the town.

My bandwagon is the easiest for mafia to jump on because it's the safe one. Marv has me on his list, and it's the cool thing to do to accuse me with 1 line and that's it. They don't even need to give a reason because no one else is. I'm not saying the people who did are mafia necessarily, but look how many people randomly bring up my name as other bandwagons are going on. Intentionally or not, it potentially gives people an easy out to discussing the real issues that actually have evidence.

The reason I haven't been refuting any cases against me is because there really aren't any. I want someone to give me a solid case that I can at least attempt to refute to get this over with. Because as it stands now, my name is just potential misdirection.
I acknowledge that both alignments can go on a preemptive defense; but this reads odd to me.
In blue: He infers that with so many proponents of his lynch, mafia must clearly be involved.
Yet,
In red: He self-flagellates again, and says the misdirection of his lynch (due to being town) may only be a "potential"/possibility.

On June 13 2014 13:33 ketomai wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 13 2014 13:20 ExO_ wrote:
On June 13 2014 11:57 ketomai wrote:
Nice job on the lynch. In light of that lynch, it changes my opinions on a lot of people and made me look at others. Of those here are the ones that concern me most:

sinani: I'm feeling mafia on this one.

-KoC admitted after he got lynched that he's quite bad in mafia. It's not out of the question that some of his early defenses could be actual mafia. He went along with KoC's badly supported agenda on batsnacks.
-He voted for KoC at the tipping point after it became pretty clear that KoC was going to get lynched already. He actually soft defended KoC before that and then after a couple more votes came in and KoC surpassed SnB, he conceded.

On June 13 2014 02:29 sinani206 wrote:
On June 13 2014 02:14 VayneAuthority wrote:
On June 13 2014 01:48 Amiko wrote:
Vote Count - Day 1:


Palmar (0): batsnacks
yamato77 (0): Palmar
roundabound (1): ObiWanShinobi, Tehpoofter, batsnacks, Chairman Ray, Bill Murray, Bill Murray, ketomai
sinani206 (0): Chromatically, Tehpoofter
Koshi (2): TicaTica, Tehpoofter, Rainbows, HaruRH, Chromatically, sinani206
TicaTica (0): Koshi
ExO_ (1): sandroba, Tehpoofter, kushm4sta
HolyFlare (0): Tehpoofter, Palmar
Bill Murray (0): roundabound
ketomai (2): ObiWanShinobi, Tehpoofter, Tehpoofter, roundabound
batsnacks (0): Chairman Ray, TheKingOfTheCats, Alakaslam
Meapak_Ziphh (1): Mattisfoolish, Bill Murray, Koshi
tehpoofter (1): Bill Murray, Palmar, VayneAuthority
strongandbig (7): Bill Murray, Palmar, Rainbows, Chairman Ray, ketomai, Alakaslam, HaruRH, Koshi
Chairman Ray (1): HaruRH, gumshoe, ExO_
Marvellosity (0): Tehpoofter
VayneAuthority (3): yamato77, kushm4sta, Meapak_Ziphh
Chromatically (1): ritoky
ritoky (0): ketomai
kushm4sta (3): ObiWanShinobi, HolyFlare, TheKingOfTheCats, ExO_
justanothertownie (0): Koshi, Palmar
ObiWanShinobi (1): TicaTica
TheKingOfTheCats (4): marvellosity, Palmar, justanothertownie, ObiWanShinobi

Not voting (2): Erandorr, strongandbig



Currently strongandbig is set to be lynched with 7 votes! Day will end in

Remember: Voting is mandatory and has to be done in this thread:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451311-tl-order-lxvi-thread-for-doing-of-the-voting
If there is a tie, the first person to reach that number of votes is lynched.

Please contact the mods if the vote count is incorrect. Thank you!


votes on me or kush at this point in the day are just lazy, save that pool of players for further use.


So it's lazy to still have votes on some of the leftover wagons because they should be concentrated on people who are actually going to be lynched, yet you are still the only person on poof? I'm not accusing you of anything, but I don't really see this as lazy. Can you elaborate?


Here, he's suggesting that there's nothing wrong with votes on ended bandwagons. Notice where his own vote is when he says this (on the antiquated Koshi wagon). While being on an inactive bandwagon is not exactly a 100% mafia tell (I am guilty as well), being present while having such a vote and being content with it is a lot more mafia. He also does not change his vote or provide any analysis aside from:

On June 13 2014 02:30 sinani206 wrote:
On June 13 2014 02:30 marvellosity wrote:
Look. I think KoC has a really good chance of flipping mafia. I think people should vote for him.

I don't really think s&b is mafia.

If there needs to be an alternative wagon, I think it should be ketomai.


I'm not opposed to a ketomai lynch.


Here it's already apparent that KoC is the case that should be focused on here yet he ignores marv (and marv called him out on it) and just tries to bring up my case again. He doesn't actually "investigate" KoC until he gets called out on ignoring it. In fact, the people he has problems with in his post history are myself and koshi, who a lot of people were attacking anyway. I obviously know I'm not mafia and I'm starting to think Koshi is less mafia, which makes his cases even more suspicious to me personally.

Anyway, besides that just look at his filter. He's basically contributed nothing while going for the easy low hanging fruits. That combined with his suspicious voting and lack of proactivity in analyzing big cases or any cases makes me think he's mafia.



Exo: starting to think he's more mafia

On June 13 2014 00:40 ExO_ wrote:
I actually agree on Kush. When I read his filter, it doesn't even look like he's trying to play. He responded to Obi and HF by saying they should lynch him, and he's the jester. I'm not sure whether to interpret this as him being sarcastic and dismissive, or him just not wanting to play this game. Either way, I don't see him as being helpful in the future if he is going to continue like this.

##unvote

##Vote kushm4sta


I'm having a very hard time determining what should indicate mafia, and what should indicate town (especially since it's day 1 and nothing has actually happened yet.) I'm forming opinions of people easily enough, but just thinking, for example, that marvel can be very rude doesn't make him mafia. And people who have been helpful and kind aren't necessarily town.


Similarly to sinani, he ignores a lot of big cases. In this post he ignores the KoC train while it's happening (and never addresses it despite being there the whole time) for almost a policy lynch on kush (with not much evidence given). He also in this post milks the newbie card, that everyone has been giving him a pass for, a little too much. For someone who's having a hard time "[indicating] who's mafia", he doesn't seem to put much effort into finding them. His accusations usually do not have a lot of backing, and in this case, his lack of accusations over the course of the whole day combined with that puts him over the top for me.


I don't think this is fair. For starters, calling me out on my posting amount when you've posted about half of what I have seems rather silly. When it comes to KoC I didn't see it. He didn't look like mafia to me. But to be honest, nobody really does. So instead of voting for what I feel would essentially be a guess, I'm going to vote for the guy who is being very trolly and actively telling people to lynch him (kush). For some reason a lot of players seem to think that acting this way makes him a vigilante, and I don't understand that at all. So I stand by my vote on Kush.

You're right about effort though. I'm probably not putting forth the effort that some players are. The amount of information in 55ish pages of reading is crazy. Being expected to read all of it and remember who said what about who when, and make predictions out of all of it seems like the norm here and I'm not sure I can keep up with that pace. I'm going to try my best, but TLmafia isn't the only thing I'm doing. If that's not good enough for you, if the fact that I'm not willing to accuse people I don't have strong feelings about isn't good enough for you, then lynch me. I'm not going to change how I'm playing right now. I can tell you this much: I'm 100% town, and want to do what I can to help town win (thereby allowing me to win). If I was mafia you'd be damn sure I'd be asking what things to say, what not to say. But I'm on my own. So I'm doing the best I can. That's about all you can expect from me, take it or leave it.


See that's what I don't like about your play. If you weren't seeing KoC, then SAY THAT and say why before you randomly post about someone completely different. You don't want to even talk about people you don't have strong feelings about but you speak up about the randomest of people without solid evidence. I mean you accused Kush previously but your only reasoning is "he asked for it" and "he's trolly". MANY people have been "trolly" this game (Vayneauthority, Palmer, etc). Do you find a borderline policy lynch (by your reasoning) on kush more acceptable than ANY of the cases that have been brought up? I find that that hard to believe.

As for why I have so few posts, it's because yes, I am generally only active after work in a 4-5 hour time period. However, I had more of a problem about your post content and when you're inactive rather than the total posts. The total posts was just an observation.

This is very ironic given:
On June 13 2014 05:01 Amiko wrote:
Day 1 - Final Vote Count:


strongandbig (4): Bill Murray, Palmar, Rainbows, Chairman Ray, ketomai, Alakaslam,


TheKingOfTheCats was lynched with 11 votes!

Night 1 will end in

Post KotC, Ketomai comments about Sinani + Exo.

Where is *ANY* statement about SnB?



The rest of his filter is fluff about theory

~moc
Mocsta & IAmRobik hydra
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
June 13 2014 22:43 GMT
#2428
@Rainbows

Thinking the same thing regarding Haru. I was gonna post a case on him tomorrow when I have a good chunk of free time, but looks like you've done most of the work for me ^^. Just a couple things I would like to add though.

Firstly his case against me. I was sort of bothered by how he thought I was attacking Koshi. My case was defending Koshi, but with some comments earlier about some things in Koshi's post that read scummy to me. This seems to me like he didn't really read it fully. It would make sense is Haru already knew that he's going to give a scumread on me, and then looked through my filter to find something, started reading up until the point where I say Koshi is sorta scummy, and then assumed the rest was gonna be the same.

After that, everything he did at the end of the day was really fishy. Firstly when SnB became the leading vote, Haru posted his case on him. There were many cases posted on why SnB may be scum, so if Haru read them and agreed with them, as town he would just say he agrees and put in a vote. If Haru didn't read the cases on SnB, then by some coincidence, out of everyone he investigated, he came up with same conclusion as the current wagon at the same time as well. But if this were the case, his read on SnB would be a lot more detailed and actually explain some evidence of SnB's alignment. Since it's neither, what would make the most sense is that Haru saw that the wagon was on SnB, and wanted to vote SnB looking like he investigated it himself.

Next thing, I find it odd as well how he completely avoided the whole discussion on KotC, but then Chrom put in a read on ritoky, in which Haru jumped on the vote right away.

Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38797 Posts
June 13 2014 22:46 GMT
#2429
The point about Haru saying CR is getting towncred by defending me is verg interesting if haru thinks I am scum.

That is a clear contradiction.

One the one hand he says I will flip town in the future and CR is getting towncred for that. (TMI)
On the other hand he votes me because I am scum

If everything I say here is true. Condemned to phoneposting.
I had a good night of sleep.
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38797 Posts
June 13 2014 22:47 GMT
#2430
Ahh see yeah I though haru thought cr was attacking me.

Then tmi doesnt apply.

Back to mafia depression.
I had a good night of sleep.
kushm4sta
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States8878 Posts
June 13 2014 22:49 GMT
#2431
mocsta is town
OMGUS.net, kush sex blogs every friday night
kushm4sta
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States8878 Posts
June 13 2014 22:50 GMT
#2432
koshi is also town
OMGUS.net, kush sex blogs every friday night
ketomai
Profile Joined June 2007
United States2789 Posts
June 13 2014 23:11 GMT
#2433
@roundabout

1st post: Why is it not logical to closely observe cases that seem to have the most steam? When you're short on time you can't reinvent the wheel and observe every case from the ground up. You also misconstrue my intent. I observe the cases not because I trust them but because I'm actually forming my own opinion about the case. The difference here is that I'm choosing which ones that were debated and have work done on them already so I can contribute my thoughts to those cases rather than try to start over with a case that I can not keep pushing due to time constraints.

2nd post: He doesn't just not want to vote, he ignores someone asking him about the case, which was the steaming bandwagon. Also, you need to read again, I did mention myself and Koshi. I considered both myself AND Koshi as easy cases that everyone was jumping on.

And you're point about him wanting to lynch Koshi. Look how strongly he actually wants to lynch Koshi. He really doesn't try to explain anything or change any opinions after his first post (which after that point, the bandwagon for it is long gone). It would not be suspicious if he continued fighting for a Koshi lynch but he just leaves his vote on there with no explanation or discussion despite being present as MULTIPLE bandwagons passed it.

3rd post: Was an observation to supplement the earlier post. Finding mafia isn't just one big clue, it's an accumulations of facts that don't independently prove anything.

4th post: My "self-flagellation" is actually an attempt to get town to properly assess my case. Yes, I do that on purpose because I didn't want to continue wasting votes and helping mafia by being constantly accusable with no evidence. Finally, someone has actually tried to come at me; that's good. You're just mincing words with the "potential misdirection part". It's potential misdirection because when my baseless status as a mafia suspect actually garners votes/vigi hits, it becomes actual misdirection that hurts the town in a direct way. I have no way of knowing if mafia are using me as an easy accusation for towncred; that's also misdirection, but I have no way of knowing.

5th post about the voting: I did make a case for snb, first content post. He was my 2nd lynch after ritoki and since I saw the case for snb building up and I wouldn't be back in time to vote or participate in further developments, I left my vote on snb. I stated that long before KoC happened.


SnB looks more town to me after that lynch and Exo/Sinani looked more mafia after the lynch. How is it hard to understand that circumstances change. On the first day there's no evidence to go by so you have to look at more abstract and unverifiable evidence. The original case on SnB actually wasn't that strong either (I'd say it was as strong as Marv's KoC case, actually), but it was the 2nd strongest that I could come up with on my first content post.
Alakaslam
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States17336 Posts
June 13 2014 23:29 GMT
#2434
Huey's cousin



Hehehe
If you think Elon Musk is a Nazi, it is because YOU radicalized him!
roundabound
Profile Joined February 2014
Niue881 Posts
June 13 2014 23:39 GMT
#2435
On June 14 2014 08:11 ketomai wrote:
@roundabout

1st post: Why is it not logical to closely observe cases that seem to have the most steam? When you're short on time you can't reinvent the wheel and observe every case from the ground up. You also misconstrue my intent. I observe the cases not because I trust them but because I'm actually forming my own opinion about the case. The difference here is that I'm choosing which ones that were debated and have work done on them already so I can contribute my thoughts to those cases rather than try to start over with a case that I can not keep pushing due to time constraints.
You are the one mincing your words.
On June 11 2014 11:38 ketomai wrote:
I'm going to place my vote with roundabound until I can catch up with the thread. Exo is the one running against him and there's not much that indicates scum for me yet.

I'll post again tomorrow after work with some more detailed opinion.

This thread is incredibly hard to read/follow on my phone.
This does not equivocate with closely observe cases
What you did is quite simple.
You went to the vote page, saw who had votes and decided to comment on that.
Exo has significantly less posts, yet you can not even muster a description of why "not much that indicates scum" as compared to my slot -- which thread sentiment was tied into. (conveniently).



2nd post: He doesn't just not want to vote, he ignores someone asking him about the case, which was the steaming bandwagon. Also, you need to read again, I did mention myself and Koshi. I considered both myself AND Koshi as easy cases that everyone was jumping on.

And you're point about him wanting to lynch Koshi. Look how strongly he actually wants to lynch Koshi. He really doesn't try to explain anything or change any opinions after his first post (which after that point, the bandwagon for it is long gone). It would not be suspicious if he continued fighting for a Koshi lynch but he just leaves his vote on there with no explanation or discussion despite being present as MULTIPLE bandwagons passed it.
I have re-read and dont understand your position.
Mine is clear however.
Both town and mafia can ignore "steaming" cases.
If anything, assuming Marv is town and Sinani is scum
It would be essential from Sinani POV to appease Marv regarding KotC. You miss this completely.
Instead, Sinani sticks of his previous bullets (Ketomai + Koshi). This can be a play from both alignments, but scum need much bigger balls to do it, whereas, town simply require conviction behind reads - a bias that is inherent.

So yes, it is you who is intentionally ignoring information that disproves your "theory".


3rd post: Was an observation to supplement the earlier post. Finding mafia isn't just one big clue, it's an accumulations of facts that don't independently prove anything.
Whether an attempt at a proof or observation, the post is a superficial filler. Nothing is dispelled.


4th post: My "self-flagellation" is actually an attempt to get town to properly assess my case. Yes, I do that on purpose because I didn't want to continue wasting votes and helping mafia by being constantly accusable with no evidence. Finally, someone has actually tried to come at me; that's good. You're just mincing words with the "potential misdirection part". It's potential misdirection because when my baseless status as a mafia suspect actually garners votes/vigi hits, it becomes actual misdirection that hurts the town in a direct way. I have no way of knowing if mafia are using me as an easy accusation for towncred; that's also misdirection, but I have no way of knowing.
I quoted "reads odd" because I understand you can not lynch people off a 'potential' slip.
It was purely an additional layer to issues I have. I am more than fine to consider this exhibit null.


5th post about the voting: I did make a case for snb, first content post. He was my 2nd lynch after ritoki and since I saw the case for snb building up and I wouldn't be back in time to vote or participate in further developments, I left my vote on snb. I stated that long before KoC happened.

I had to recheck your filter for a "case". Then I realise you meant this list note:
strongandbig: Seems a little bit like mafia. Would be the easy pick to vote but I'd love to see him defend himself first because like my suspicions for every one else after 1 day, I'm not sure. If anything, a lynch wouldn't be so bad just because he's not productive/working w/ the town.
You miss the point completely I made. I suggest you re-read.
You chastise one player for dropping a read without commenting.
Yet post-KotC, you dropped SnB (for Sinani + Exo) without commenting on your position on SnB.

Hypocrisy, which you are advocating is a scum tell.


SnB looks more town to me after that lynch and Exo/Sinani looked more mafia after the lynch. How is it hard to understand that circumstances change. On the first day there's no evidence to go by so you have to look at more abstract and unverifiable evidence. The original case on SnB actually wasn't that strong either (I'd say it was as strong as Marv's KoC case, actually), but it was the 2nd strongest that I could come up with on my first content post.
Thats great in hindsight.
But your post after the KotC lynch started with:
Nice job on the lynch. In light of that lynch, it changes my opinions on a lot of people and made me look at others. Of those here are the ones that concern me most:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/451310-tl-order-lxvi-mafia?page=106#2106
btw, theres nothing about SnB there.....

~moc
Mocsta & IAmRobik hydra
ketomai
Profile Joined June 2007
United States2789 Posts
June 13 2014 23:57 GMT
#2436
Wrong that snb post was before KoC. I wasn't even around for KoC. In fact it was nearly a full day after my last post since I said in that post that I would not be able to alter my vote. You are completely missing the timing of posts in relation to events.

Why would I accuse them of not addressing KoC when I myself didn't even do it? Because I wasn't even there, and they were.

You are tunnel visioning me and not looking at the circumstances surrounding the posts. Exo and Sinani were post lynch, the first post with snb was initial thoughts before any results were there.

The first post you quoted was the source of everyone jumping on me. It was a post that I made before even playing the game. I'm not even going to respond to that because I've explained it almost immediately after it got called out the first time.
Rainbows
Profile Joined March 2013
Germany1217 Posts
June 14 2014 00:02 GMT
#2437
More discussion about Haru please. If someone disagrees that he looks insecure or his reasoning for voting CR is the scummiest thing in the thread please discuss.
roundabound
Profile Joined February 2014
Niue881 Posts
June 14 2014 00:03 GMT
#2438
Lol. Just lol
I have tried to reason with u openly. But this is now pointless.
That snb post is a bunch of fluff and u r hanging onto it way too hard for what it really is.

3 wishy washy sentences in a list post.

Scum scum scum

*##vote: ketomai
Mocsta & IAmRobik hydra
ketomai
Profile Joined June 2007
United States2789 Posts
June 14 2014 00:10 GMT
#2439
At that point, like I said, SnB was my "strongest" read because it was the first day. I really do not hang onto it that hard as you can see by this post:

On June 12 2014 12:38 ketomai wrote:
Actually, since I won't be back in time for the end of the mafia day tomorrow and won't have a chance to change my vote, I'll change it to strongandbig, so it doesn't have a high chance of being a useless vote. I guess if strongandbig actually arrives to defend himself, it better be dazzling because my vote can't change.


None of my cases were strong and neither was anyone else's including the case on KoC. I drop SnB post-lynch because he's less likely to be mafia and the case against him wasn't that strong to begin with.

Notice that I had maybe a 3 hour window 24 hours after the start of the game to make my vote for the first game day. That's 24 hours of information, you are reading too hard into nothing.
roundabound
Profile Joined February 2014
Niue881 Posts
June 14 2014 00:12 GMT
#2440
Rainbow
I read the haru case.

I like the second half more than the first.
Second is quite damming to me actually.

Regarding first half, it's slightly town to me.
As town, if he thinks koshi is scum. He's paying attention to the guys wielding koshi pitchforks and comments cr may be disingenuine. That's an astute observation for mafia to throw out in my experience. Typically mafia would be happy to have a read on player x. And are too lazy to note publiclly further interactions.

If scum, and koshi is town. This observation holds no weight if koshi flips.

Overall, I think the second half is more damming than my points for in the first half.

I'm happy with dither ketonai or haru

~moc
Mocsta & IAmRobik hydra
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