EPT/in
Newbie Mini Mafia LVI
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Lord Tolkien
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Lord Tolkien
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ohaithar~ On June 19 2014 03:14 roundabound wrote: Please don't make me coach the gay guy. He's so Asian. And Canadian too! Ugh, I can't even envision a more horrendous combination of traits that a person can have. I'm Canadian-American now. Does that make things better or worse? Anyways, until roles are sent out: | ||
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On June 19 2014 14:43 MysteryMeat1 wrote: u haven't seen lord of the twinks yet! Eh, this book seems like your standard trashy romance novel. Are you sure you're reccing it? | ||
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![[image loading]](http://www.weeklydavespeak.com/forums/images/smilies/av-50556.gif) | ||
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We need to follow the Prime Directive ppl. Well, anyways. This is my third online mafia game. I've been a D1 lynch bandwagon x2, while being x2 vanilla town. clearly if i dont appear scummy d1 i ain't vanilla town huehue + Show Spoiler + Ok seriously, I will hopefully be able to not do that again I frequent TLLLOLOTGD nowadays, and I followed Nydus' LoL career back when I was closely watching the NA amateur scene (I didn't expect him to be on TL :o, but I was rooting for you). | ||
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All I can say is that Teemursu is my only solid read for me atm (as town). While Nydus has played with him before and says this behavior is alignment-null, he's instigating the scumhunting that town sorely needs early D1. As a result, I would peg him as town (or at least, a non-viable D1 lynch). That being said, I don't agree with any of the early lynch candidates thus far (as in, I don't have a strong enough read on any of them currently), and would rather lynch a lurker at this point in time. That includes scott, because his post was pretty much a non-response. Of Cats or meatpudding, if I had to choose a D1 lynch atm, I'd vote meatpudding solely based on thread contribution. -Teemu agrees with me and "thinks I'm town", which I always appreciate, but he "thinks I'm town". He could be a town, or a mafia trying to make both of us or just me look mafia. Again, completely ambiguous and I'm not sure. My general impression of mafia players in my limited experience is that they work to distance themselves as much as possible. I personally do not read too much into it atm; without a flip it's speculation. | ||
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On June 22 2014 08:20 The_Templar wrote: Personally, I don't know about Teemu, partly because I don't know about video mafia. I'm going to research this further. Scum-hunting isn't essential on day 1; I think it's more of a developing point in the game but that's just my two cents. I don't like Scott's posts very much. Teemu has however been the main driver of the conversation. More (relevant) posts=good for town. It's my initial impression from someone who hasn't played with him, but he's as solid of a read as I have currently. Scott's post about modkilling (just saw that) continues the trend of non-contribution, yes. | ||
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On June 22 2014 08:58 NydusHerMain wrote: Not only that but Teemu agrees with me on TheKingOfCats. Although I agree with people that we should vote a lurker, considering the large number of lurkers and the fact that it's a newbie game, I don't think being a lurker is necessarily indicative of scum. On the other game, I do see people trying to contribute and looking scum whilst doing it. I'd rather vote on someone who I think is the scummiest than RNG a vote and potentially hit a cop. It isn't and I agree; however it is indicative to how useful they'll be to contributing to town, and I'd rather get a lurker lynch out of the way now in a newbie game, than later. If someone actively posts, it's easier to judge alignment, and gives town something to go with. If I am convinced of a player's scumminess I'll vote for him, but at present I don't feel enough of it atm. As for the possibility of hitting a lurking blue role or whatever, it is a risk, however if you are a blue role in forum mafia, the correct play for blues is generally to play like you would a vanilla townie. There's no reason to treat a blue role as anything outside of a (very nice) bonus; you're still playing town. All lurking does is make you suspicious, either to town or to scum. Don't do it guys. I do agree with you broadly, just I'd rather get a serious non-contributor out of the way, and a lurker lynch policy for a newbie game is decent incentive for newbie townies to NOT lurk, and post (which is the only way we can judge people: no/little/non-informative posts=bad for town). If people don't post they'll get mod-killed anyways, but still, low-info posts don't help town. AKA: POST GAIZ, AND CONTRIBUTE On the other game, I do see people trying to contribute and looking scum whilst doing it. That's how my D1 the past 2 newbie mafias went for me hah. Which reminds me. If anyone needs it, http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/445959-newbie-mini-mafia-liv?user=Lord Tolkien http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/441178-newbie-mini-mafia-lii?user=Lord Tolkien The filters for my previous forum mafia games, which is mostly the sum of my mafia experience (minus a couple DC/MD/VA meetup mafia games). For your conveniences. I aim to improve my D1 play anyways, but it should give you a general idea how I play. At this point, based on current posts, I'd vote on Scott. No opinions on anyone excepting pointing out that we had lurkers, and the rest are just sheeple nods. Hasn't added anything to the thread, just posts to make himself appear active. | ||
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#vote Scott31337 | ||
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Bleh. Can you talk about what you think of Cats, Teemu, and meatpudding? Or myself and Nydus? | ||
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On June 22 2014 11:14 HaruRH wrote: Lord tolkien, this is the wrong way to approach forum mafia. In forum mafia, you lynch for scum ONLY, not for information/clearing lurkers/usefulness to town. We usually clear lurkers with cops and people useful to town will die quick to mafia anyway. I have a feeling you knew this. Coupled with how you wanted to go with meatpudding but went with scott just for a wagon, you're playing really scummy. ##Vote: lord tolkien If you have a solid scum read, ABSOLUTELY. Put together a case, and get them lynched, there is no excuse not to if you're town. However, absent any serious push onto a person, there's nothing to go on. You can't put together a case WITHOUT people talking and posting. If no one talks, or just makes useless posts=no one can put together a case or get good reads=useless day lynches=mafia wins with night kills. There was plenty to talk about (and there's even more to talk about now, ty HaruRH). As I noted previously, I didn't have a solid read for scum thus far into Day 1. Templar did actually explain my reasoning for starting the bandwagon on Scott, but to clarify a point: I wrote specifically that meatpudding was my, at the time, preferential bandwagon due to contribution (aka fairly minimal; he asked a person for their opinions and that's it); I noted I did not have any solid scum reads. After seeing Scott's next post (just a random agreement post, does nothing for town), I mulled it over and revised my opinion on who I would prefer to lynch first. I am perfectly willing to change my vote from Scott, as we have plenty of time during the day for him to prove he's 1) not scum and able to contribute, 2) for a a credible scum case and bandwagon to be put forward. Absent either of that, I'm leaving my vote here for now. As for Epishade and the others who HAVEN'T posted a single thing, they're either getting modkilled, or have no choice but to post and vote. Again, I can change my vote last minute, but town seriously needs to TALK MOAR. Which your push onto me should leave no excuses for. So ty, this is all I ask for atm. | ||
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On June 22 2014 14:01 jabberwockzerg wrote: Scott, do you have any experience in any mafia games elsewhere? Tolkien, why the switch from meatpudding to scott? I answered it below. On June 22 2014 12:16 Lord Tolkien wrote: Templar did actually explain my reasoning for starting the bandwagon on Scott, but to clarify a point: I wrote specifically that meatpudding was my, at the time, preferential bandwagon due to contribution (aka fairly minimal; he asked a person for their opinions and that's it); I noted I did not have any solid scum reads. After seeing Scott's next post (just a random agreement post, does nothing for town), I mulled it over and revised my opinion on who I would prefer to lynch first. tl;dr I changed my mind on Scott's next post (the irrelevant agreement with Templar) which I didn't see earlier before I posted. | ||
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For now, until I can read filters more thoroughly. That was all I asked for. My vote was purely to pressure and gauge your reaction. I'll post my thoughts (soon tm). | ||
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HaruRH: moderate Town lean, perfectly happy with your posts thus far. Your play fits your described playstyle, and the fairly quick counterpush onto me when I started the bandwagon on Scott is indicative of a town reaction to a pre-emptive bandwagon. I find it doubtful scum would have attempted a counterpush and soft-defense of Scott at that juncture, Templar: On the flip side, Templar has in his most recent posts pushed himself towards a town lean for me. I was watching him closely after he decided to voice concern and bandwagon onto Scott immediately after I did both the aforementioned things first, but his recent posts have largely been town for me. I rank him lower than Haru as town for me atm. Anyway, the game was over a year ago. wat game was over half a year ago? pls clarify 4 me Jabber: I'll be honest, I am getting a somewhat scummy feeling from jabber. The most recent post most definitely: says pudding is a townlean and votes for him afterwards? wat The posts are generally designed to appear useful, but are actually all that. He is the first one to raise the Scott=inexperienced issue (irrelevant to why I voted onto him, but still a defense of Scott when scum would probably let him burn if he was town) however, which Nydus and Teemu bandwagon onto later. Which is why only a slight scum feeling. I'd be most comfortable with a tolkien vote, but I want him to read my post about scott and react to it, defend his wagon. What is the basis of the vote, and what post? If you mean "he just seems inexperienced", I believe that's already been covered by myself (or Templar, I believe), so there's no need to rehash it. If I'm voting off people who can't/aren't contributing, it kind of points towards experience being a potential factor, I would think. Additionally, can you explain why you not only CHANGE your opinion on meatpudding from townlean to voting-for-him WHEN you say you'd be most comfortable voting for me (why don't you, there's no reason to wait, wat), AND change your opinion on Cats from "I like his posts" to "I'm on the fence" about him. Plz explain, they seem rather large discrepancies in your behavior. Scott: Take that vote off yourself THIS INSTANT YOUNG MAN >   Ok but seriously, I was mostly pressuring you to give us reads of some sort. Your first response was to ignore the question about Cats/meat I believe, then randomly agreeing with Templar was also deliberately non-responsive. Given no one else was doing anything decisive, I figured I may as well go for some pressure. You're on my watch list, as there are things about your list that I don't like. And I know how it is to get D1 pressured. That's the position I was in the past 2 newbie mafia games. Just FOCUS ON CONTRIBUTING to town and you'll be fine. Mysterymeat: I never indicated I thought Cat was more scummy. wat? Meatpudding: Any defense for yourself? You appear to be a prime lynch candidate. What do you think of Cats? Epishade: has a good initial post. Best of the former lurker posts ATM. Town lean. Everyone is mixed or slightly scummy. Teemu in particular has had a string of bad posts which make me doubt him. He doesn't say anything about the noticeable push onto Scott I (and Templar) made, or the spat between myself and Haru when we were on. He talks about how it doesn't change his opinion of Templar, but doesn't say anything about it until he quotes zabber hours later. Still says nothing about me. Final note before I head out for a few hours: town will need to consolidate votes onto a few choice bandwagons, to keep scum from influencing votes. Let's outline the main lynch candidates for today, shall we? I'll be back soon with more reads and shit. ~Valar Lurkgulis~ All Lurkers Must Die | ||
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I can't speel atm apparently | ||
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On June 23 2014 07:00 Hobbitus wrote: Please share your thoughts after you read his filter! I am not quite sure what to think about him (slightly scummy for now), and would love a second opinion. Or teemu could just post some more. Alright, reviewing it from the top, I really just don't feel he's been forward with his opinions in the second half. The majority of his posts have been pressing questions and opinions from people, which is fine, but he hasn't done much after that. On June 22 2014 16:15 Teemursu wrote: TOWN: Nydus jabber LEANING TOWN: Scott Templar FENCE: TheKingOfCats LEANING SCUM: Meatpudding SCUM: Get to posting! Not sure yet where I should put Haru yet. I will read his filter in a few hours, but so far I'm leaning town on him. Some explanation for some of the reads would be greatly appreciated. Specifically jabber. Also, quick response to Glowbear: I think he has no grounds on Scott and his "lynch all lurkers" policy worries me. As one of the guides said, it's a common blue strategy to lurk. But that's not the main point. The main point is: if you are Mafia and you have Mafia partners lurking, would you risk forcing this "lynch all lurkers" policy? I don't think so. Now, if you are Mafia and all your partners are on the game, what would you do? Force the policy so you could lynch a blue, as lurking is a common blue strategy. Moreover, if you are convincend I am town, this means that lurkers definetely weren't all Mafia, which would mean that Mafia strategy of lynching lurkers is a huge possibility. Again, saying "As for the possibility of hitting a lurking blue role or whatever, it is a risk" worries me the most. Would you take the risk to take a cop out of the game instead of trying to identify active scum? Because of these, I have a strong scumread on Tolkien He is still forcing this policy by now. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/301748-a-general-guide-to-mafia When you find out that you have a blue role, the general knee-jerk reaction is that you are too important to the town to risk being lynched or shot by the mafia. This can cause people with blue roles to lurk and exhibit posts that suggest “fear”. However, a good player with a blue role will appear exactly like he is a townie, though this is not easy to do. When you have a blue role, you should be posting as if you are a townie. The only difference is that you are more well-informed than other townies. Use that knowledge to aid the town without letting a feeling of your importance as a blue role alter your posting habits. If you are lurking as a blue, YOU'RE NOT PLAYING WELL. All you're doing is drawing attention to yourself by conspicuously not posting anything. There is no tangible benefit to lurking for town, as we can't figure out alignment and shit. PLAYING BLUE IS NOT AN EXCUSE FOR PLAYING BAD. So if I have to light a fire under your arses, fine. For D1, this is a perfectly sound policy. Anything regarding my push onto Scott is well-tread ground, so unless you have anything new to ask or to add, that's a beaten horse. It's a difficult vote for me right now. Until I get an acceptable defense that isn't an OMGUS, meatpudding is a pretty scummy candidate no matter my potential misgivings of Teemu. The only other option for me I is jabberwocky given the aforementioned discrepancies in his filter and shifting opinions. I want an explanation for it, but it's far less egregious than meatpudding's posts. Which are basically just OMGUS, and pretty useless from a town standpoint. A vote on meatpudding would additionally clear up my muddled picture of Teemu, and a few others, who are currently on him, based on his flip. But it also feels bluntly plausible that' he's just a poor newbie who's struggling to learn the game, since he's pretty blatantly OMGUSing here. But then again he'll be useless in that case so... Well, actually I really like Cats' recent posts and I agree with him on MysteryMeat's apparent discrepancy about our lynching policy towards non-contribution and lurkers. I'd like him to respond to it, because it's a pretty glaring difference when I was way more over the top with my stance on the issue. Probably a D2 case to bring up overall, but I actually VERY much like the case Cats brought up. I also didn't notice that we both proposed the same policy, him bringing it up first. Outside of the apparent frenzy over his introduction, he's leaning town to me now. Noticeably: King of the cats: I honestly really don't like him, seems super scummy, in one of his arguments on lynching, he mentions that he doesn't care about alignment. If you can push a mislynch day1, then you can kill a stronger player in the night. Top scum at the moment. tolkien: The only thing i didn't like was that he said he didn't like cats or meatpudding, and i felt like his post read that he didn't like cats more, but then he votes on meatpudding, Find it a little weird, but nothing other than that. Ok you know what, fuck it. It is a VERY glaring inconsistency for MysteryMeat1 to condemn Cats for the possibility of a mislynch and not my push. The post is too reminiscent of my experience with N1k0 in my first TL mafia game. As much as I hate it since I really do want to lynch meatpudding for being a useless fucker, but... ##Vote MysteryMeat1 It's a tough choice, honestly. Moderately strong scum read vs. scummy read/pretty useless contributor. But this is what my gut says. Also, glumly awaiting modkills on the 2 inactives (or a swap; 2 modkills is fucking brutal). | ||
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But my scum read on MysteryMeat1 outweighs what I feel about meatpudding. | ||
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what the flying fuck. Nydus: Nothing concrete. Which is why he's strarting to trend scummy for me. I find it weird that TheKingOfCats' first reaction is to question Teemu on a supposed "null read" when I feel like MeatPudding saying that TheKingOfCats is trying to lynch him (pretty much saying that TheKingOfCats has a scum read on him) is a much scummier thing. | ||
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On June 23 2014 09:47 Hobbitus wrote: Wow, I really didn't realize that cats and tolkien acted so similiarly o_0 Hmm Neither did I until I read Cats' rebuttal post. <_<;;;;; | ||
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I noted my decision-making process here. The absurd inconsistency is just FAR too big of a warning bell for me. meatpudding is acceptable I think as well, but I can plausibly think of him far more as just a bad town, what with blatant OMGUSing and ridiculous plays like voting Haru. MysteryMeat's contribution is him trying to pose as normal town when he hasn't been posting much. My (limited) experience with lurker scum is that they hide until the second half of Day 1 before posting a "reads" list, and giving a vote in the hopes it'll let them off the hook for any suspicion, and voting for a possible bandwagon based on the general feelings in the thread. Let's be real here, NO ONE in this thread thought I was scum until GlowingBear (I believe Haru had already removed his vote at the time), so he figured it'd be best to continue the trend. Cats a safe vote. A bandwagon on meatpudding, but Cats is under suspicion so his vote won't be heavily scruitinized D2 if meatpudding turns up green. It's just impossible for him not to even MENTION that I pushed for a lynch on a player for being deadweight and being FINE with a mislynch if that happens, if that's why he's so bent on voting Cats. It's just ridiculously impossible, like holy shit. | ||
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Still waiting on a response from both of them: I need to hear something as I'm very much willing to change my vote here as it was difficult for me to choose. | ||
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Let's agree to consolidate on EITHER meatpudding or MysteryMeat1, until we hear something back, alright? No stray votes anywhere else, let's do our best not to let mafia influence the voting. | ||
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On June 23 2014 10:22 GlowingBear wrote: Are you mentioning me in this last paragraph? If so, have in mind that I have stronger reads on cats and meatpudding, although I've already said that I have to re-read cats most recent posts. That said, I think you are overreacting over a solid argument I've brought, and I find it more suspicious. Haru may have taken out his "attacks" on you, but I'll stick to my very solid logic over here. Yet, I'll repeat: I have stronger reads than you. Read above. I'm talking about MysteryMeat. idgaf if you think I'm scum or not for pushing a lynch-all-lurkers policy. I've already cited the section of the Mafia guide which touches on it specifically. If you think it's scummy, fine, w/e. | ||
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On June 23 2014 10:26 MysteryMeat1 wrote: whats OMGUSing? http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Oh_My_God_You_Suck AKA voting for someone or thinking they're scum because they voted for you. | ||
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On June 23 2014 10:35 Hobbitus wrote: I'll be honest, it's making me uncomfortable that they are the only two options according to you. Yes, they both have good cases against them IMO, I just don't like that you said that. The general advice I've gotten is that town should generally aim to consolidate voting onto a few bandwagons. Having votes everywhere gives mafia the power of a unified voting block. The more disparate the voting, the easier it is for mafia to hide their influence on the actual votes. If everyone consolidates, they have nowhere to hide. Vote for who you think is the most scummy, but who else is an option besides the meats for you? While I very much dislike jabber's schizophrenic opinions, voting for jabber gets us nothing, in my opinion, at this stage. meatpudding gives us insight onto the people who started the vote and push onto him, and I would say taht MysteryMeats' lynch will give you insight as to Cats' (and my own). If you can compile a case, do it already: we're running out of time. | ||
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On June 23 2014 10:42 The_Templar wrote: GlowingBear did something similar to you. Yep. Interesting. | ||
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On June 23 2014 10:57 The_Templar wrote: Wow, is MysteryMeat not defending himself at all right now? Wtf? He even told Scott to fight to the end if he was town... Clearly he isn't town. | ||
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On June 23 2014 11:39 TheKingOfTheCats wrote: Ok, now please answer the other three. It isn't and I agree; however it is indicative to how useful they'll be to contributing to town, and I'd rather get a lurker lynch out of the way now in a newbie game, than later. If someone actively posts, it's easier to judge alignment, and gives town something to go with. If I am convinced of a player's scumminess I'll vote for him, but at present I don't feel enough of it atm. As for the possibility of hitting a lurking blue role or whatever, it is a risk, however if you are a blue role in forum mafia, the correct play for blues is generally to play like you would a vanilla townie. There's no reason to treat a blue role as anything outside of a (very nice) bonus; you're still playing town. All lurking does is make you suspicious, either to town or to scum. Don't do it guys. This is where I mention blue roles. I later linked to the general mafia guide for how-2-play blue roles in forum mafia, which can also be summed up as DONT LURK. | ||
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I'm not going to change my vote after the recent clusterfuck. I'm even more convinced now. And more confused too, but I digress. | ||
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Well that now actually makes SOME sort of sense. | ||
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He'll probably be under my scrutiny D2. I still have no idea what kind of relationship I would have with you. It would be monumentally stupid of me to bus you as mafia (if you were mafia), since no one actually believed Cats until I supported his push. If you're town and I'm mafia, it would mean I would have to be pushing steam off meatpudding or Cats (the latter wasn't going to be lynched, let's be real)...despite me talking about lynching meatpudding as a preference, both before the Scott pressure votes and I withdrew it. If you're green, that makes no sense. :psyduck: I still don't see it. On June 23 2014 12:07 MysteryMeat1 wrote: if you tell a blue role how to play and in a newbie game they start playing like that, then you are essentially fishing for roles. If they start listening to you, and you notice then you can shoot them in the night. Possible yes, but I was also saying lurking IN GENERAL is bad. If you're vanilla town its bad because you don't do anything and will probably get policy-lynched for it in a forum mafia game eventually, it's bad for blues because you'll get either lynched or shot because mafia will notice, and it's bad for mafia because people will notice. Town thrives on posts, so POST. That's the crux of what I was saying and aiming to promote. | ||
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IF YOU ARE VANILLA TOWN as you claim and you got lynched and flipped green, that means nothing then since you cleared me. Why would I as mafia want to get you lynched. If we're both mafia...why would I start this train. WHAT IS EVEN my head hurts | ||
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On June 23 2014 12:23 MysteryMeat1 wrote: there was a time period before you started this train and my post on cats where i believe this read should have come up. WHAT READ I DONT EVEN I still don't understand this smoking hot relationship we apparently could've shared. tell me plzzzz Are you trying to say that if I didn't start the train this is how it could've been viewed? WHAT IS THE RELEVANCE TO ANYTHING!?!? | ||
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On June 23 2014 12:41 Hobbitus wrote: Actually, let me revise that. I think that your suggestions for a cop check are good, not that all three of them are scum. I think those are three very good choices to know the alignment of, given their position in this clusterfuck. Only if he flips green. Otherwise, it's pretty easy to rule out a couple. | ||
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On June 23 2014 12:42 The_Templar wrote: I'm going to guess they're asleep (Haru would be sleeping pretty late though…). It's like 6 am where teemu (not teemo -.-) is. Are you saying he's not a yordle? Dangnabit. | ||
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On June 23 2014 12:44 MysteryMeat1 wrote: who are you going to rule out when i flip green tolkien? ...they're ruled out when you're red. If green checking myself or Cats is a safe bet I would say and it means we probably will be under suspicion tomorrow heavily. And we won't die, most likely since we started the lynch. | ||
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Which I wouldn't mind tbh, but just letting you know. | ||
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It would suck for meatpudding though. | ||
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If you're scum, die. | ||
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You apply too, though you aren't dead. Make some fking sense tonight/tomorrow and stop OMGUSing. There is a potential for a case on Teemu, but good lord man. | ||
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REMEMBER GUYS, talk and post at night. Obv don't talk about stupid shit like WHO'S BLUE, or WHO SHOULD COP CHECK/MEDIC PROTECT/CAPTAIN PLANET SMASH? But talking at night is something that town should absolutely still be doing. I'll do what I did in my past newbie games and post a comprehensive night analysis post just as it's about to end. | ||
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People who should be under D2 scrutiny: meatpudding myself Cat Teemu | ||
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Lord Tolkien
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That being said, I have a few clarifications to make for Teemu, and an addendum to the (failed) case on MM1. To fully elaborate on the reasons I pushed it: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/450895-newbie-mini-mafia-lvi?page=23#459 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/450895-newbie-mini-mafia-lvi?page=24#461 In his initial reads list, he said this: King of the cats: I honestly really don't like him, seems super scummy, in one of his arguments on lynching, he mentions that he doesn't care about alignment. If you can push a mislynch day1, then you can kill a stronger player in the night. Top scum at the moment. But later, when pressed on me by Haru, said: tolkien: The only thing i didn't like was that he said he didn't like cats or meatpudding, and i felt like his post read that he didn't like cats more, but then he votes on meatpudding, Find it a little weird, but nothing other than that. At this time, I had already made my case on Scott at least 12 hours ago I think. KotC points it out, and I agreed with him wholeheartedly. He finds KotCs his top scum for being fine with a lynch of a non-contributor yet said he didn't have any feelings about me, when I start a lynch of an effective non-contributor (and push for a lurker lynch policy), and stated that a mislynch is an acceptable risk in D1 without a strong scum read. When I actually noticed KotCs state this, it seemed eminently impossible to me that he would be able to hone in on KotCs for that policy and make him his top scum choice, while completely ignoring me, as I was far louder telegraphing my intentions about it in the thread than KotC did. I, and apparently others, didn't notice KotC make that statement either. I felt at the time that this was far to glaring to ignore, given there were votes onto KotC and he was under suspicion and, at the time, everyone had read me as on the fence. I considered it a very plausible motive, and a clear explanation for why he didn't vote for me (he was scum hoping to blend in). At the time, my only other major scumread was meatpudding, and I had a stronger read on MM1. It was, as I noted, a very tough choice and I wondered if MM1 could've been a better D2 case. I stopped pushing after I made my initial case to support KotC after I pushed this theory and case, since I didn't want to tunnel it completely onto him, as meatpudding was also an acceptable lynch and I REALLY wanted to hear from both of them. I made some unnecessary cutting remarks, but really from that point on, he hung himself with his own posts, and it was Cats and everyone else who did most of the pushing. There's quite frankly not much else I can say when he posts really confusing shit like me and him having a potential relationship; as I stated, wat is the relevance to anything if you're speculating about a potential relationship on D1 about a period of time between when you made your first reads list and when I pushed the case on you. I think we spent at least a good 30 minutes trying to figure that out, which unfortunately detracted from his defense to the point where enough people decided his flailing was too confusing as I did. I was fairly certain he was scum up until the flip, but by that point, I was fine with him dying even if he was town because I couldn't understand his arguments by that point. <_<; In hindsight, he likely simply didn't read the thread where I started the wagon on Scott well enough and pushed onto KotC with the most concrete piece of "evidence" he could've. But again, I stand by my reasons for voting MM1 at the time. As for a pre-emptive defense of myself, where do I make such posts? I don't recall making such posts at all D1, but I might've done so. It was an exhausting 1/2 of the day for me. Partially why I stopped seriously pushing the case on MM1. I'll be quite honest, I would rather have heard from you, Teemu, before the flip. Accusations are easy now after flips have been made, so I would've much rather have heard from you while the case is in-progress; it would be much more enlightening to your motives and your opinions. Grilling me is a natural position after I had such a heavy hand in the MM1 lynch, so I really can't read anything off this. But time constraints and timezones, I understand. On June 23 2014 19:50 Teemursu wrote: This reason keeps coming up again and again when Tolkien and Cats both defend their case/accuse MM1. To put it simply, why focus on it so hard? Since MM1 flipped green, it almost sounds like they had to pre-emptively defend their case on something they knew would be a mislynch. Did MM1 actually not push on Tolkien at all? I'm still not sure how much things would be different, if he had. My overall read is that he it's scummy to accuse/vote him while everyone else is on the fence with him or leaning scum. The way and the amount of "WHY ME?! AND NOT TOLKIEN" I read from this makes me lean way scummier on him. It understand KotC and both Tolkien had this as one of their reasons to literally bury MM1. At this point I didn't really see as to why it would be so weird to push on KotC instead of Tolkien from MM1's perspective, since both are basically as valid for pushing to either get reads or try to lynch scum. If anyone can help me correct myself with a potential misread, please do! The initial reads list, he didn't at all after he decided to decry KotCs for being top scum for an lynch-of-non-contributors policy, when he says absolutely nothing about me, except something confusing about me thinking Cats was scummier than meatpudding and that's it. He decided he was NEUTRAL on me, which made no sense given the context of his vote. In hindsight it was just a major glaring error on his part, but the major lapse of consistency made me eminently suspicious at the time. Think about it yourself. If you had read his initial reads (+ what Haru pushed for) at the time, what would you have thought? On June 23 2014 20:33 Teemursu wrote: I want you to stop flip-flopping on MeatPudding. This isn't updating your own reads, as Nydus said. It sounds more like being unsettled to call your scum partner one way or the other. You say he's fine, and you coach him on how to play better as town. But just in case he's scum, you tell him to die. I'm saying you're not fine, and that you need to dig yourself out from the hole you've jumped in to by making this case on MM1 on weak basis. By making the case based on him having discrepancy in analysis and not making much sense, while these are the exact same things MeatPudding should be accused of, and you still think he is "fine". You most certainly are scum, and you need to die. ????? I was referring to MM1, not meatpudding (and IF he's bad town, parts of it still do). I should've quoted the post I was referring to, but I was tired, but here's the context post I was responding to. On June 23 2014 12:54 MysteryMeat1 wrote: well as it is pretty apparent my time is near, i would like to apologize to anyone i may have offended with my posts, namely Cats: dont actually think your a retard Epishade: soz By "fine" I was referring to his conduct, which is fine. Mafia can be pretty aggressive, and he didn't do anything out of line. (If anyone did, it was probably me) I clarify that later too. On June 23 2014 13:00 Lord Tolkien wrote: at MM1. You apply too, though you aren't dead. Make some fking sense tonight/tomorrow and stop OMGUSing. There is a potential for a case on Teemu, but good lord man. My stance on meatpudding didn't change throughout the entirety of D1: he would've been an acceptable lynch for me as well, I just felt I had a stronger read on MM1. I would've preferred it if they both died, and have/had nothing against lynching him. And as you mentioned Haru, the cases on both of them were certainly very similar (why I spent so much time debating which one to move my vote to after pressuring Scott [who now appears to be AWOL]), I simply felt that MM1 was more likely scum. Ill answer any questions as I see them from now until the end of night. | ||
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Lord Tolkien
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Lord Tolkien
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Mods, can you check if Scott31337 is still playing? He indicated he wanted to quit so I'm not sure how to approach that. | ||
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So tonight I'm just going to give as many reads as I can before the flip, particularly on people I don't feel will be in the spotlight D2. Epishade Can you give us some solid reads you have on people currently? While you are posting content, I haven't seen a solid stance on anyone yet. What are your impressions of me, Cats, and meatpudding? I feel he's leaning town, but I'm no longer as sure as I was. Nydus Has been giving reads sporadically, but he really hasn't been in the mix of things. Very uninvolved. I would very much like him to post some more D2, and give us some insight as to who else he thinks are town, and how the fallout of D1/N1 influences his reads. No read ATM on him. GlowingBear DONT speculate about green or blue roles. You probably realized, but DO. NOT. Additonally, if your reads are mostly null, just don't post those reads on a D1 list. Can someone else review his filter and give me his impressions? I'm trying to decide if I should dismiss the contradictions in his two main reads post D1 as drunken newbieness or not. After MM1, I not going to jump him for it, but I'm definitely going to watch him closely. jabberwocky First off, I don't understand this post. Jabber is scummy because he was the first one to give the read on Scott, and Nydus and myself agreeing with him makes him scummy? I realized I forgot to answer this one. And rereading it, that part is rather confusing, but also ties into my read of jabber. At the time, Jabber's reads changed erratically, from liking meatpudding to voting on him (when saying she'd be more comfortable with a vote on me), to saying she liked Cat not jumping on a bandwagon to being "on the fence" with him. Now that she had said this: Most of the time, I'm posting to inform everyone when I change my mind about stuff, I don't really see the point of posting "I still think the same thing I thought before" again and again is there anyone specific you want me to elaborate on? among other clarifications, I'm fairly satisfied with it. My current read of jabber, pending further posts, is tentatively leaning town. Her vote on MysteryMeat1 was pretty easily justified, since he kept refusing to give a read of her despite repeated requests. As for the experience thing, I was more concerned as to why Teemu didn't seem to respond immediately to it. Nydus quoted and agreed with it after it was posted, and Teemu was online but skipped that post (indeed, he quoted one of her later posts instead of touching on the issue of Scott), coming back to it after video mafia. Again, time constraints probably, but it was curious for me that he missed it. Probably nothing, but I'm having a frustrating time trying to read him without late D1 posts. I think I need more D2 posts before I can peg down Teemu for anything in particular. Going after me N1 after that case isn't really alignment-indicative, so I have a ??? read on him for now. Templar I need to dig through his filter again, I had an initial townread on him, but I need to revisit that. You have a long filter, which is good. But I don't have time atm. Hobbit I think your bussing concern makes absolutely no sense. It would be abit ridic for Cats and MM1 to bus themselves THIS early when they weren't prime lynch candidates like pudding was, and I don't see a motive for me to effectively kill MM1 and draw attention to him. HOWEVER, this does make sense as to why you voted for him after Cats stated the obvious about lynch confirmations, so...yeah. I would say you're leaning town. ATM. Haru No time. | ||
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Lord Tolkien
United States12083 Posts
Don't expect I'll die, but I would press on Epishade and GlowingBear D2, and perhaps Nydus too. Nydus def needs to talk more. | ||
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Lord Tolkien
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For now, the OBS QT. http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/y7wk3p2Va9f5v | ||
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Lord Tolkien
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On July 05 2014 13:18 HaruRH wrote: Was fun guys. Just a few large hiccups along the way, or else we would have won T.T teeeeeeeemmmmmuuuuuu why no vote epishade nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu If he voted epishade -> lylo templar claim jailer and say he jailed hobbit d3 (so hobbit didnt say cos he roleblocker) That would've been shot down since Templar claimed N1 roleblock and you claimed being jailed. One of you clearly lied about that then, and someone is bound to pick up on that. But yes, town by D3 was in a complete clusterfuck situation. Then a stroke of luck saved it. Well more appropriately your WTF cop claim and subsequent demands for jailing. Also: SO YOU THOUGHT I WAS BLUE? LOL | ||
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Lord Tolkien
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On July 05 2014 13:23 The_Templar wrote: I claimed being jailed N1, I could have said I was jailor looking to look like a non-blue to the mafia Yes, but then Haru claimed being roleblocked and not jailed, and posted that before you posted your jailing claim (I believe). the logic wouldn't have worked out, what purpose would Haru have to say roleblock instead of jail D2? | ||
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Lord Tolkien
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On July 05 2014 13:30 HaruRH wrote: ??? D2 -> me roleblocked, templar jailed D3 -> no claims D4 -> cop claim, jailed and roleblocked Zzz, I'm reading stuff wrong. Never mind. In any event, I have comments mostly directed towards town (and a self-critique), that will be forthcoming after I get some sleep.. | ||
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LordTolkien 06-28-2014 03:47 AM ET (US) Anyways, Haru/Templar/Teemu are the scum now. I'm almost positive that's the team. Ahahaha. I have more critiques about town-play, but fake-claiming early on was, to reiterate, SUPER RISKY. It may be useful in LYLO, but if you get to lylo with a full scum team, chances are you win anyways if you're playing well and convince town there are scummier persons. Though I will say it did baffle me when you made that claim. Made me think that you and jailer were just super bad town as a possibility because no counter claim. You guys were however playing it well the first two days. Removing anyone who can possibly challenge your claims or were pointing out the obvious town plays. But again on town: 1) Make sure you have vote consolidation as par for the course. D2 was an example of a vote spread that should NEVER EVER HAPPEN, as it gives mafia undue influence in deciding who to vote. Or not vote, as they can potentially just let town hang themselves. Consolidation on a few bandwagons is essential. This applies to D3 as well, because if Teemu or Templar were online during the deadline, town would've continued the downward spiral, so remember, ALWAYS consolidate your votes, and if you don't, the leading bandwagon probably isn't mafia, unless it's a last-minute switch. This, along with pushing bandwagon, is town's best voting strength against scum. Another example is a single early-game bandwagon that no one has challenged seriously at all. Partially why I looked into MM1 as a counter-bandwagon ere I was killed. 2) Speculation on the possibility of a vigilante kill is useless unless there is a clear night where vigilante shot someone , OR VIGILANTE CLAIMS. Being sidetracked into a discussion D2 about it with no claim means you need to make THREE unsupported assumptions, mostly 1) vigilante is in the game, 2) vigilante shot someone N1 of all days, and 3) mafia shot someone and it was blocked by either the medic or the jailer. Unless vigi claims, don't talk about vigi shots, and just assume mafia shot them, because they probably did for their own reasons (apparently I made them think I was a blue, lol; I shoulda made a soft-vet fake claim Amikoooo~). Overall, despite 1 modkill and 2 subs. town did manage to scrape by with a lucky break D3. After that, mafia fakeclaims hung themselves. Because seriously, a cop asking to be jailed is the most baffling thing ever if you're town. Either mafia reacts and shoots you after the claim, and saves other town (who are less scummy and likely to get mislynched) and you contribute to town with at least town reads, or you do nothing. That sealed it for you, because no one is going to stand for obviously bad (claimed) blue play, in conjunction to non-contribution after D1-3. Personal note is that I shouldn't try and set myself up D1 as super vocal town. Or somehow convince mafia I'm blue role as VT. Unless it's a vet claim... I may try and join the next newbie mafia because it'll be my last one, but mafia is a major timeink so zz. | ||
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Lord Tolkien
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http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/TSRguXMypYZ Tragically cut short. And yes, I'll emphasize the point that VT is powerful. As I said D1, blues should not be lurking for fear that their power is important, and VTs have no excuse. :s | ||
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