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Valenius
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1266 Posts
March 26 2014 21:28 GMT
#315
With Cavalino though, I don't want a situation where he clams up and goes super aggressive. He's got enough pressure on him that he should be providing decent reads on everything in a helpful manner (as mentioned in my post). My vote on him doesn't add much at this stage.
Valenius
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1266 Posts
March 26 2014 21:29 GMT
#316
On March 27 2014 06:27 Eden1892 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2014 06:26 Valenius wrote:
I'll vote when I want to vote on that person. The only one scummy enough for me at the moment would be sqrt, but that would be a wasted vote at the moment.

What? The only wasted vote is a vote not cast.


It will be cast, once I decide to cast it.
Valenius
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1266 Posts
March 26 2014 21:39 GMT
#319
On March 27 2014 06:34 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
What I don't like is that there's no resistance from Cav, even though this is a huge amount of people bandwagoning him.


Yep, he's definately not posted anything trying to defend himself so far, right? I don't like his defense, but saying there isn't one..

He even posted a couple of hours ago that he'd be back after some work to respond?!?
Valenius
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1266 Posts
March 26 2014 21:59 GMT
#328
On March 27 2014 06:45 Lord Tolkien wrote:

On the Valenius post: sqrt, how do you get a "neutral" read off of it? It's filled decent, non-rehashed analysis (though I think he could explain his reasoning on Pixalated: Valenius what is your read of him, and why do you think that). You don't like it because he calls you scum, yeah, but tell me: why shouldn't we view you as scummy given your current contributions? Your reads post had two pieces of original analysis:



Sorry, are you saying pixelated called me scum (dont think he did). Or are you going back to talking to sqrt and me calling him scum?
Valenius
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1266 Posts
March 26 2014 22:03 GMT
#329
sqrt, have your reads on anyone else changed? your previous reads had pretty much 0 reasoning, do you have anything more substantial for each one?
Valenius
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1266 Posts
March 26 2014 22:06 GMT
#331
On March 27 2014 07:04 IAmRobik wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 27 2014 06:55 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
The neutral read was from before he did his reads, and after he posted his reads, I didn't change my read because the reads really wasn't anything new.

can you english


Translation (Correct me if im wrong sqrt)

His neutral read on me was before I posted my long read post. Since thoroughly digesting that long post, he feels nothing in there was new, so it hasn't changed any of his reads.

That the gist of it?
Valenius
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1266 Posts
March 26 2014 22:20 GMT
#339
Eden, what do you feel about Sqrt?
Valenius
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1266 Posts
March 26 2014 23:05 GMT
#348
Sleep for me.

##Vote: sqrtofneg1

Eden, i'll read through your post tomorrow.
Valenius
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1266 Posts
March 27 2014 18:58 GMT
#449
On March 28 2014 03:42 Eden1892 wrote:
Gotcha.

I'm about ready to move back onto Cavalinho. I still don't like Tolkien at all here, but Jarvis made a really good point here about Cavalinho -- all of his posts throughout the day have been focused just on surviving the day. He doesn't actually look concerned about finding mafia. Even well after I moved off of him, he just seemed insistent on harping on my alleged "tunnel vision" with him (which doesn't even make sense given that I wasn't voting for him). And enough people (read: just about everyone) have assured me that Tolkien is just being a bad townie instead of actually mafia, with particular emphasis on him being bad at Day 1. I suppose given this I should give him the opportunity to demonstrate why I shouldn't kill him on Day 2.

##UNVOTE Lord Tolkien
##VOTE Cavalinho


If you're leaning towards LT being bad townie (even through taking others reads into account), does that then move your read on me anywhere?

From the quick scan through, most of your scum feeling on me seems to come from interaction with LT (mostly me 'defending' his wtf-attempted-scum-bait-thing). Obviously correct me if i'm wrong, that isn't based on a line-by-line analysis of your posts.

OnceKing: I'm going to address you in a bit, you've made a couple of posts that i really just don't understand. Food first.


I hope it's nicer weather in our town, because it's pissing it down here.
Valenius
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1266 Posts
March 27 2014 19:35 GMT
#452
Once, what I really want to know:

How in gods name can you think:

+ Show Spoiler +
On March 27 2014 01:44 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
Okay, going down the filter list.

OnceKing brings up policy.
I kind of disagree with bringing it up so early, but I think it was a town mindset that he did it.
I read town.

Eden is clearly town.

Val hasn't been doing much, other than questioning the lurker policy, (kind of like me) so no read on him.

LT clears Val in this post:

Show nested quote +
On March 26 2014 19:13 Lord Tolkien wrote:
I still need to read the LIII mafia game thoroughly. However.

OnceKing sounds town as all fk. I was originally suspicious of his initial "serious" post due to OK's early Day 1 behavior versus early Day 1 LII newbie mafia game and was going to comment on it, but I re-read the old thread and reversed my initial opinion on it (originally thought it was inconsistent, but I reread his case on Amiko and it didn't mention the lurker lynch policy). He's been pushing town towards active discussion since then, asking for reads, and generally steering conversation towards positive goals, so he's establishing himself as town thus far.

IAmRobik also feels town to me, though I still question why he feels OK's post is out of place given the context (unless it was scumbait, that was my first thought). The post is still useful pressure and discussion for town, though, and there is no reason for scum to be so forward, so early on in the day, especially with the possible game-states (no godfather game-state). And his posts subsequent read fairly town.

Valenius is super town in my eyes, he's cleared for me.

Pixelated is neutral or slightly scummy to me.

Eden feels even more town for me. He's actively pushing the Cavalinho case and scumhunting aggressively in Day 1, while being the most active contributor to the thread thus far. Clearest town poster in my mind, as he's giving reasoned arguments here.

Cavalinho sounds...well, aggressive in all his posts. And he's OMGUSing without presenting a case, period. But given his past game behavior, he also does this when he's town so I'm not sure if my scrumread on him is wrong. Like, this is almost a repeat of LII Day 1 in terms of the Cavalinho lynch progression, however without any substance from him. I'm leaving him as possible scum atm tho I'm confused by it. Maybe the most scummiest read I have, even his past town play aside. Like
I'll answer your question when you answer mine.
and
No, I simply felt like you were dodging the question.
should mark him as clear scum, but...might just be his playstyle.

I also happen to think his OMGUS vote is him trying to look innocent because he's aware of his meta (not the post beforehand he noted that Robik townread him in a previous game because he OMGUS'd then), but that can go either way. What's telling is that he fails to develop his vote, he just puts it down and insists it'll be me or him today. That's dumb and not what a town player should be doing.

This is actually a strong analysis of what I was trying to say.

You know what, Cavalinho isn't angry and pissed off enough to have the righteous indignation like his LII newbie game, nor still tries to contribute. Or hell, contribute an actual case for his OMGUSing.

sqrtofneg1 has thus far been fairly disconcerting to me. I indulged him with the Hearthstone convo, and I think that's irrelevant to the thread thus far. It was a fair shot at getting something going, if inflating his filter/post. After the first actual serious post to pop up Day 1 (the OK policy lynch), he posted this
Fun fact: I've been mafia once, only once, in my fair amount of irl games.
and didn't respond to the looming topic at hand, then had a sleep post. Like, its non-contributive lurking at best. There was definitely things available to comment on at the time of his sleep post. Hell, by the time of that post, IAmRobik had already made his wtf post about OnceKing's lynch policy post. It piggybacks off IAmRobik's joke posts, but he at least follows up with substance after there's clearly something to respond to. He still has time to become an active contributor, but seems to be a scum lurker to me. Probably my primary lynch target today because I'm still fking confused by the signals given off by Cavalinho's playstyle and posting patterns.

On March 26 2014 13:31 IAmRobik wrote:
RE: Sqrt

In what world does a mafia come into the game and start talking to himself for 10 posts? Mafia has all the reason in the world to sit back and not do shit and contribute when something is happening and then push some random town who is on the chopping blocks. I don't give a damn if it was 10 posts of filler about how he's doing today and how his HS run was going.

The exact same reason you were pushing on OK for: because it's good to make the appearance of contribution. idgaf about the HS posts too much, but the fact he continued the joke posting and made a sleep post before contributing anything useful makes me unhappy.

Quick point to RolandJarvis before the plunge, that was a continued joke post. I was jokingly referencing the LII newbie game where I was OMGUSing OK hard for focusing on me Day 1 (mostly for some inconsistencies in his case). Posted that and the correction right as OK was posting the policy lynch post (note the policy lynch post being nestled between that post and the edit), which is the first serious post of the game, which should have been a clue. I'm overall happy with your contribution, however, and I would recommend you read the LII newbie game, since quite a few of the players here were in that game (and should give you a general idea of our playstyles as town (I think all of us present played as town that game), so you can get a feel for us. You voiced the concern about OK only voicing his read on IAmRobik, but his playstyle is (at least, going off his LII and stated gameplay) to only give his strongest reads. So this isn't inconsistent or scummy for me, just how he plays. Just like how Cavalinho still confuses the fk out of me.

Or you might have and the mistaken use of punctuation in the post confused you.



Overall, I'm quite happy with the way this thread activity has been. no ded gaem

Also, my sleep schedule is fked up, so I may be responding at odd times such as this.

Even though he hasn't done anything. Why would he do that? But wait, there's more.
His next post is this:
Show nested quote +
On March 26 2014 20:31 Lord Tolkien wrote:
- Reads on Valenius and Pixalated. ...how? Valenius asked some good questions to develop OnceKing's policy, but that's all. Certainly a good start but not nearly enough to declare him "super town" or "cleared." Especially in light of the fact that he said Pixalated is neutral-to-scummy... I have Pixalated as neutral-to-town if anything, but to be honest they've done virtually the same thing here (not post much, make solid contributions where they did). There's a lack of explanation for either read, which on its own doesn't say much, but...

ZzZ. I knew I should've tried posting that part some other time. Or maybe I should've approached it with more subtlety (see: any subtlety at all).

Was trying to scumbait with it when questioning Cavalinho and sqrt. Was trying to see if they would piggyback off of it. Went back and deleted those sections specifically to try.

My true reads:
Valenius leans town at best. I'm hesitant to call him anything at this stage of the game, when his only post is at best asking for a PAINFULLY obvious clarification on a policy. Or in other words, in line with what everyone else has said.

Pixelated is leaning town. He's had more posts and has given reads on sqrt and Valenius, but the main crux of their points have been similar to what OK and others in the thread have said (not much to be said this early into the game, however). He was however the first to defend OK's post (outside of OK), and rightly so. If we're continuing with the Cavalinho lynch, it is...unlikely for them to simultaneously bandwagon on a possible lynch and defend the person in question.


- His position on Cavalinho is inconsistently soft wrt the rest of his list. Notice the "almost" above -- the one big exception is the guy that I personally think is obviously scum. He does some lip service to the idea (e.g. "these things should mark him clear scum"), but then handwaves every point he raises for Cavalinho on a shaky meta argument (e.g. "mark him as clear scum, but... might just be his playstyle). He says Cavalinho is "maybe the most scummiest read he has"*, but then declares sqrt his "probable" lynch target today. There's a lot of waffling on Cavalinho that isn't present with the others. (PREVIEW EDIT: Even concedes the case is strong, but still has sqrt as his top suspect. p l s)

This is again going off of my experience with Cavalinho in LII, though the more you prod, the more I think you may be right about me softballing Cavalinho. I may be trying to discern too much off meta, and am letting how LII Day 1 went color my view of the game and his (pretty scummy) actions too much.

- His rationale for sqrt is weak. Of a handful of inactives so far he's singling out one post of sqrt's (the "I've never drawn mafia" post) as the thing that's so disconcerting to him? Already zeroed in on sqrt being a scum lurker and wants to lynch him over aforesaid "maybe most scummiest read"*? That's just strange to me because nothing that sqrt has done has been alignment-indicative yet.

As I EXPLICITLY note, it was posted AFTER the serious posting began, and AFTER IAmRobik's wtf on OK. The timestamp is key: if it were before that, and even OK's post, whatever. idgaf because that was part of the joke phase. That's what I find the most disconcerting of his posting, versus Valenius (whose post at least addressed something serious).

- Preview edit point: That last question is such a softball! Ideal to ask your fake scum read and your scum buddy, terrible as town. Why wouldn't he ask about the things Cavalinho and sqrt are doing that makes them suspicious to him?

My main issue with sqrt again is the timing of his post and decision to start lurking at that juncture, which makes me far more leery of him over Valenius. Look at the time stamps: 3.5 hours between OK's post and Valenius's question and his sleep post, 4 minutes between Robik's wtf post and his highlighted post, and 11 minutes between the post I highlighted and his sleep post. Certainly there's time to post...something serious? When we had clearly moved past the jokes votes?

Putting him among my top scum reads is/was a means to pressure him into posting something of value and see if he posts anything that makes me pursue that line of inquiry. Similarly, the main thing which Cavalinho isn't doing is giving anything of substance in his posts. This is also why I was posting a full reads list, to see if there was any piggybacking going on.



He demotes Val to leaning town. Maybe he now realizes that he was too obvious in pushing Val for town.
If he's mafia, Val's also mafia.

He also makes a scumtrap that's horribly planned out.
Top mafia in my eyes.

Robik's playing aggressive, as he normally does.
He's been pressuring pretty much everybody, as a town should do.
The one thing that I don't like is that he got a town read on my on joke posts before the game. that's strange.
I read town.

Pixalated is probably town. He's trying to logically put together the picture, and he's a bit quiet. He's suspicious of the right guys, he's cleared the right guys. I say town, with blue role. The blue role is because he's quiet.

Cav seems mafia, with the same reasons as Robik and Eden.

RJ is town, good reads, good logic.

So it's either Cav + someone who I misread, or LT and Val.



In that post he makes.. possibly one thought-out read? 'xxx is town' provides fuck all for anyone else to go on.

He even calls pixalated out as probably being a blue role. Anyone, please chime in on this: How is that a good move?

His LT read was based off of him not understanding anything of what went on.

He's voted Cavalinho because he said he was going to post after work.

He asked why only he should remove his vote on Cav, when asked to remove it. "Also, could you unvote me already? We've already determined that your vote was derp and I think you need to reread the thread to find a real scumread."

"Also, I disagree with Robik's case against Pix." Give some reasons, how does that help anyone?

He brushes off RJ when RJ asks for reasons why sqrt is town, and then in his very next post asks robik to do exactly the same for him.


Maybe i just don't understand wtf sqrt is doing, he's the most unhelpful player in the thread. Anyway, back on to you OK, got a bit sidetracked there.

"He cites his reason for suspicion as a lack of contribution but in fact Sqrt's post is very concise and clear, providing a huge amount of information about his motivations." in relation to sqrt's read post. I just can't wrap my head around how his post was informative. Maybe i'm being dumb, i just can't see it.
Valenius
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1266 Posts
March 27 2014 19:37 GMT
#453
ebwop: I just kinda scrolled down sqrt's filter for posting those, hopefully enough to follow. and "How in gods name can you think: " should be "How in gods name can you think this post is good:"
Valenius
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1266 Posts
March 27 2014 19:42 GMT
#455
Ah. Well, that makes me a bit less confused.

Your cases last game were reasonably thought out, and i thought you'd gone insane with that case (my interpretation of your case).
Valenius
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1266 Posts
March 27 2014 19:44 GMT
#456
In general though, when I'm doing my posts i just look at that person's filter in isolation. I don't really take other people's cases into account unless they're a major talking point in that persons filter (see Eden vs Cav).
Valenius
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1266 Posts
March 27 2014 20:28 GMT
#462
I really want to keep my vote on sqrt, but it doesn't look like it's going down that way.

Out of Cav/LT, i'd be voting for Cav.
Valenius
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1266 Posts
March 27 2014 20:32 GMT
#464
Robik, at the top of the last page you had Cav/Pixelated as scum, with LT as a maybe.

What made you switch to LT?
Valenius
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1266 Posts
March 27 2014 20:58 GMT
#479
/sarcasm
Valenius
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1266 Posts
March 27 2014 21:07 GMT
#486
In light of this..

My vote isn't moving. I don't believe LT is mafia, so i'm not going to move my vote on to him.
Valenius
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1266 Posts
March 27 2014 21:27 GMT
#496
So apparently i still have two votes on me as well. OK/Pixalated - Are you sticking with those?
Valenius
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1266 Posts
March 27 2014 21:38 GMT
#501
On March 28 2014 06:37 sqrtofneg1 wrote:
The question is, do we believe the cop claim or not? It's doubtful, but possible.


Shit, i wish someone had wondered this earlier.
Valenius
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom1266 Posts
March 27 2014 21:59 GMT
#510
night everyone
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