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On February 17 2014 11:16 VisceraEyes wrote:Why does Palmar vote VE over Grack in this situation? VE is clearly invested in trying to win while Grack is not...if he is town and doesn't care why not vote himself? Too many trolls. 
Not trolling.
We fucked up, and I take some responsibility although I didn't fuck up. Lynching Koshi over Grack was the wrong play. There were some townies who trusted a random town-read better than the solid one we had on Koshi. I should have yelled but whatever.
We're not lynching Grack, we're lynching you, and you should be happy about it. Because town decided Grack wasn't scum in the triple lynch with Koshi and I, we've basically commited to him being town. I don't like it, but that's the way it is. Any townies who voted for him (hell, mafia keirathi was with me on Grack) basically threw this if Grack is scum.
But Grack isn't necessarily scum, he may well be town, in fact I'm leaning town on him, so the game isn't over.
Today, you explain in detail every single one of your reads, and then you die. That way I can use those reads to help me end the game, instead of having to spend half the rest of it worrying about where the fuck you were in the early game. I have a rule, and I think you know this rule, "Don't trust anything said in lylo". Sadly you didn't start playing the game until lylo so what can you do. Nothing you say will ever be able to make up for your early game.
However, help me figure out what to do in the next days, flip town, and you'll be a bloody hero.
But no, we're lynching you. It would be insane not to do so.
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I don't need people "invested in trying to win". I need people who I think are town.
You do more good dead than alive VE. You know I'm not scum if you're town, because you know I could've decided to lead a lynch on you and ended the game (assuming I'm scum and you're town) instead of Keirathi. I didn't.
So you know I'm not talking out of my ass here. You also know me well enough that I'm not lying when I say nothing you say from here on out is going to change my lingering suspicions of you from early game. Remember this?
Now I may be bad at mafia, in fact I'm really sad I'm not being carried by some town circle. I said in the beginning of the game I was expecting everyone to be better than me now. But that's the way it is. I'm not lying when I say I need you to die more than I need you to stay alive. You could well be town, but I can't trust anything you say until you flip. So please just flip .
I see no reason for you to not put all your focus today in scumhunting, and then leaving us with a good, strong filter with what to do tomorrow. I may be trolling during the long stretches of downtime this game has, but I'm not trolling when I say I'm really unsure about my next move.
Confirmed town VE opinion could help decide that. Unflipped VE is just going to make me want to lynch him.
If you're town, I'm not doing this because I'm a dick, I'm doing this because I cannot clear you. Feel free to call me bad for not being able to, but you also know I'm not lying. So if I'm bad, help me deal with it.
pls die 
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On February 17 2014 17:32 Holyflare wrote:
I don't get it??? You're blaming us for losing if grack is scum?
Not blaming anyone really but myself. Remember, my views apply to myself too. If grack is scum and koshi got lynched over him, it doesn't matter that I wanted to lynch Grack. It just means that I allowed people to out-argue me with bad reasons. My bad. It's never the town, it's always you.
On February 17 2014 17:32 Holyflare wrote:
and you want VE's reads so that if he flips town you can do what..? we're right back in lylo again if he flips town. What does ve flipping have anything to do with our lylo situation?
I value VE's opinions when he's town. We're right back in lylo if anyone of us flips town, VE flipping town has nothing to do with our lylo situation and I didn't say it had. I want his reads so I can have trusted town-perspective reads from someone I think is quite good at mafia to hold my hand as I continue playing this game.
On February 17 2014 17:32 Holyflare wrote:
Why is it that every nomination you say that most likely everyone in the nominations are town but this one specifically you bring up how we are "bad" for not lynching grack who could be scum when you didn't mention that at all last nomination and why does VE need to flip, for what reason?
I did not call anyone bad, so why are you quoting it as if it's a direct quote? I said it was the wrong play, and I still think it was, Grack was being more active in the thread, but the town-read on koshi was stronger, including that marv guarantee.
Did you not read any of my above posts. VE needs to flip because I cannot trust he's town, ever.
On February 17 2014 17:32 Holyflare wrote:
This is the first time you really talk about the potential for grack being scum. Maybe if you didn't try and troll me 2 days ago and discussed this the game could be a lot easier.
I don't think Grack is scum. I mentioned that there is a chance, I can be wrong. But I don't think he is, hence why I didn't argue loudly when we lynched Koshi over him. I think Grack is town. That doesn't mean I think he's right, but I think he's town.
I don't see how the game would have been easier if I hadn't tried to troll. Everything said in lylo is worthless. Maybe you should've played the game before that? We had a good discussion during night 1?
On February 17 2014 17:32 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On February 15 2014 00:15 Palmar wrote:On February 15 2014 00:10 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 15 2014 00:09 Palmar wrote:On February 15 2014 00:06 Oatsmaster wrote:
well mainly because WoS is just saying he shouldnt get lynched for his inactivity but its fine if we lynch him for other stuff. Also the martyring, holyflare never martyered
Also he hasnt put any useful input into the game in his 7-8 posts unlike holyflare from what i remember. I don't think martyring is particularly telling one way or the other. But the difference is that holyflare was raging about in-game stuff, ie: he was mad that he wasn't being listened to. WoS is just mad that people are calling him scum. I don't know this game hard. I'm not mad about being called scum I'm mad that peole think my aflking means I'm scum. Bbl your afk-ing means it's impossible to read you. It's clear that some of the afk-ers are scum. Risen, holy, VE, ger/keir, you, yam koshi have all been very much inactive, and since Grack and I are basically clear, there's at least 3 people that have had massive bouts of AFK and are scum. So afk = scum. problem is some of the afk players are town too.
This also applies to you
Yes. Sorry about that. This game is sorta hard for me because I know I will need to lynch 4 mafia correctly in a row to win it. And I know it's always going to have to be my decision. All the pressure is on me and I have no leeway for failure. I have been doing my best to read, but not bothered to comment much. Remember I value things said in lylo very little. I understand not everyone agrees with that philosophy, but at least knowing that you should be able to understand my perspective.
So yeah, I've been a bit mad at this game in general, not at town or anything, just frustrated with the pressure of my situation. It's on no one but me. I'll try to post more.
On February 17 2014 17:32 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On February 16 2014 19:34 Palmar wrote:
Why do you care about the game now that we're lynching mafia? Grack and you have been in a lot of nominations and people generally assumed that meant you were town, why would scum put VE in the nominations against 2 people that are widely considered town by most people in this thread?
I agree, it's unlikely VE is scum. But I'm not scum and I don't think Grack is scum soo.... And we know at least 3 townies voted for Koshi in the grack thing (keirathi was on grack) so it wasn't an all-out scum play.
One of us has to die. I think by far the greatest benefit is to have VE die. And I'm really expecting VE to agree and understand my points when he comes back to the thread.
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did my knowledge bombs kill town?
All townies (that's the people that aren't mafia) need to be on VE, including himself.
VE, you need to come back to the thread.
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Yes, we're killing VE just in case.
I would love to be able to trust his reads. Him flipping town would help that greatly
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On February 17 2014 22:21 Holyflare wrote:
So everything said in lylo is worthless but you want ve's reads that he'd have said in lylo anyway? Doesn't make any sense. A read is a read, you pick out things that don't add up to being a town mindset and then develop a scum read on them, which is what me and VE were doing the last lylo. How would this be any different?
Are you being intentionally thick?
The reason everything said in lylo should be ignored is there is no consequence for lying for scum. If their lie/bullshit works, the game is over, no coming back to lynch them when it was obviously bullshit, as the game is over.
VE dying changes everything, his reads in lylo if he's town should absolutely be listened to, as he cannot be scum by the time he has flipped.
I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand.
On February 17 2014 22:21 Holyflare wrote:
Shouldn't we instead of finding out ve's reads be finding our own reads and discussing them? Been quite clear on risen and grack so far and you've had no input into either of them.
Grack's town. I'm not discussing lynching him. I will discuss Risen tomorrow. Apparently getting people to lynch VE is going to prove really hard, I have no idea why, as my reasons are very clear.
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On February 17 2014 22:34 Grackaroni wrote:
##Vote: Palmar
Are you trolling?
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On February 17 2014 22:56 Holyflare wrote:
are you being thick!?!?!? you can literally get called out for lying 24/7 at any point in the game, lylo doesn't change shit about that. You look through a filter and find what people have done in their gameplay the entire game and then tell everybody about it, how is that hard to do and where does lying come into it?
Feel free to disagree. I said it was a personal rule, and I've said it in many games multiple times before.
That has no effect on the current situation.
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On February 17 2014 23:03 VisceraEyes wrote:
I've literally never had anyone try and convince me that me dying is the best thing for my team. Ever. Votes on Palmar, he's a lunatic.
Please don't talk in absolutes.
Let's do this very slowly. Do you think I'm town?
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Why do you care so much about living on VE? Marv/Reyn/I were fine with dying when there were three townies up for lynch. I would be fine with dying if I was 100% sure you're town, but I'm not, so sorry.
You _should_ think that there's three townies up for lynch now, so what's the problem?
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And I never said I was incapable of finding scum. I said I was unsure and your confirmed reads would help. That's two completely different things. Remember, I'm the only guy in this game that has actually found scum yet, right? I made the case and the push on keirathi on day 1 and I decided he'd die on day 3.
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On February 17 2014 23:07 VisceraEyes wrote:
After you trolling me all yesterday and now you trying to convince me to die for town, no I'm thinking you're probably scum.
Are you serious?
So do you think I bussed Keirathi instantly on day 1? Are you saying I volunteered to die for marv, knowing marv would instead want to die himself on day 2? Are you saying that I willingly prolonged the game by making keirathi the lynch yesterday? I'm like 90% sure I could've lynched you instead.
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On February 17 2014 23:09 VisceraEyes wrote:
##Vote: Palmar
He's insane. We can't fix him. Fucking kill him.
This is called avoiding the subject.
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You know me trolling isn't alignment indicative at all VE.
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On February 17 2014 23:12 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2014 23:10 Palmar wrote:On February 17 2014 23:07 VisceraEyes wrote:
After you trolling me all yesterday and now you trying to convince me to die for town, no I'm thinking you're probably scum. Are you serious? So do you think I bussed Keirathi instantly on day 1? Are you saying I volunteered to die for marv, knowing marv would instead want to die himself on day 2? Are you saying that I willingly prolonged the game by making keirathi the lynch yesterday? I'm like 90% sure I could've lynched you instead. But you didn't. You AFK'd while town and scum alike unanimously voted for Keirathi, so you saying you "found" Keirathi is completely meaningless.
The whole reason he was under pressure was me constantly bringing him up. Yes I took a break from the game a bit while these meaningless phases were undergoing.
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On February 17 2014 23:14 VisceraEyes wrote:
Like if you're town, why were you not concerned about me being on Keirathi? If you're town and afraid that I'm scum, why was there no hesitation on Keirathi at LYLO? You're making shit up, and you're gonna die for it.
You're literally putting words in my mouth.
There was hesitation, I know you're not reading very attentively but here you go:
On February 15 2014 17:13 Palmar wrote:
Screw it
#yolo
##Vote Keirathi
Yolo generally means you're about to do something you might regret.
On February 15 2014 17:18 Palmar wrote:
I'm basically going to gamble on having been right on day 1. I may not have been, but given how unsure I am it just feels like the right thing to do. As much as I'd love to lynch VE for the sake of lynching VE, let's give this one a shot.
Look! more hesitation, more Palmar being unsure!
On February 15 2014 18:14 Palmar wrote:
Sure it does bother me, but what can you do?
If Keirathi is scum I would not expect mafia to try to defend him. They will have another shot at lylo tomorrow with a far muddier picture.
Would you expect them to defend him?
I sort of anticipated him falling over regardless of alignment.
That being said, I still think the rage by geript on day 1 was forced, I still think the points I brought up against him were valid. I still think he left the thread as soon as he had the opportunity to (IE wasn't being lynched anymore). I don't think geript contributed anything from raging at me until he quit the game, I think Keirathi's entrance was extremely unnatural. It just feels really off to open with a case having never even interacted with the person accused, I don't think his posting has been particularly good ever since, especially notable is that I _feel_ he's not particularly interested in engaging in conversation.
So yeah, it's super tempting to go after VE instead, he's almost 100% scum based on doing absolutely shit-balls nothing this game, remember my point earlier about how he asked marv for explanations and just kept throwing out random reads with nothing behind them himself. He hasn't explained anything in a long time and is getting away with it.
But yeah, marv thought VE was town, so whatever. Keirathi it is today. If he flips town I'm just going to blame marv, that sounds like a good idea.
See, me explaining why I'm not worrying about how easy the wagon is. Very much unsure still.
On February 16 2014 02:46 Palmar wrote:
why are you even posting. This game will probably end tonight with the way it's been going
Look! me predicting with my luck I might be wrong and the game will end!
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So yes, I was completely unsure, I hesitated. I went with my gut read from day 1 and got it right. I'm not scum in this game, trying to make me scum right now is just beyond ridiculous.
Unless of course you're actually scum yourself, that would probably explain some things.
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On February 17 2014 23:20 VisceraEyes wrote:
Like he says "VE why no okay with dying, see marv and rayn and me all martyr on Nom1?"
Marv and rayn wanted to die because they were unsure about the game and weren't having fun playing. I'VE got a good idea about where to go from here, and I'VE been invested in playing the game. WHY would I be okay with dying just so that Palmar, who AFK'd the fuck out of the only cycle we've lynched scum, can clear me? That doesn't make any kind of sense in any fucking realm.
Big talk from a guy who didn't play cycles 1-3.
There was no reason to discuss anything. Either I was right on keirathi or I wasn't. Do I look afk to you now? And yes, everyone and their mother should have a massive, massive townread on my by now. I am basically confirmed town. Trying to claim otherwise is absolutely insane.
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I am not going anywhere. You're going to have to deal with me because I care about winning this game.
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On February 17 2014 23:28 VisceraEyes wrote:
Out of curiosity Palmar, why the sudden urge to live now? I don't get it - why were you okay dying in previous Nominations and not this one? Just roll over bro.
Because I thought marv/reyn and grack/koshi are town, although I would've preferred lynching grack in the latter one.
I cannot be sure you're town. I want to live because if you happen to be scum (which is actually quite likely, given that you somehow don't have a townread on me by now).
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EPT
