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On February 07 2014 08:36 Cephiro wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 08:25 LSB wrote:
I am deeply concerned about Cephiro trying to get a townie to offer themselves as a sacrifice to get me shot. I know that I am a townie, so this falls under my "worst case scenario of townie shooting townie" argument.
This is incredibly different from Marv/HF who are both asking people to lynch them so they can pull the trigger themselves. Unless they are bluffing (which applies more to HF than Marv) mafia should never offer themselves as a sacrifice. 1) I have merely pointed out my suspicions on you and referred to you as my preferred lynch target since I was asked of that specific question. 2) If you are scum, there is no reason for scum to shoot you. I am not in need of tempting another townie to get to shoot you, I am just fine doing it myself. I figure it would be best to talk cooperatively among town who they want to keep around for lategame to ensure the best possibilities of winning. As you might have noticed, I am in no rush to make decisions about who to lynch or who to shoot this cycle, neither was I during last cycle. This is also a reason why I'm sad that Prome was the one to take the shot, since I would have preferred him to stay alive later in the game, and had an more unsure read take the shot.
@Wave: It's suboptimal play. Why guess if we can have facts? Certainly it might not even become a deciding factor of any sorts, but why take the risk? Why not go for the guaranteed information?
Disagree.
We have direct control over a lynch, not who gets shot. The shooters can technically do whatever they want despite what they may say, and they may or may not mean they're scum. If we lynch two people who then shoot town, and then game doesn't end either way, then we know one of them was scum---the only thing that the 'guaranteed' information matters is for association cases, which I have very little faith in lately.
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On February 07 2014 08:38 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 08:28 Cephiro wrote:On February 07 2014 08:21 LSB wrote:On February 07 2014 07:57 Cephiro wrote:
Yush Wave, just got that far in the thread. At the moment it would probably be Holy (pushing me for out-of-game reasons too, wut?), or LSB (lots of stuff that doesn't make enough sense).
Like what on earth are these "confirmed" townies he speaks of? All his possible endgame scenarios include one. That alone is scummy as hell, pointing out several possible endgame options yet leaving out the more likely ones. He also speaks of suiciding being counterproductive. In my opinion there is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't always aim to lynch a townie. ??? What are you talking about? I covered all possible scenarios that could occur starting tomorrow. What other end game scenarios could occur? There is no such thing as confirmed town in this game for an alive player. Just because you think marv is town doesn't mean everyone else agrees, nor that he actually is. I'm making the assumption you're not talking about yourself as a confirmed townie from the perspective you put it, especially as others would not be able to know that.
Lynch = No flip. Shot person = Flip.
Scum will never shoot their own buddy in this setup. Thus if the scum is lynched, we won't be able to know and just see town dying and go into possible panic due to misreading the situation as the worst possible scenario.
Why is scum getting lynched a bad thing? If we lynch you and you shoot Marv, you flip yourself as mafia. If you shoot someone who is on the possible scum list, we get rid of two borderline players. Either way a scum dies and that is good for the town. Because scum will never shoot scum. If you lynch scum that shoots a townie, you can't be sure if that player is actually scum, or if it's a townie taking revenge/trying to be a hero/whatever other possibilities there are. Let's go with the assumption that you lynch me and I shoot marv. I know I'm town. Let's assume marv is town also. Just because I shoot him, even if most players consider him to be town, does not make me scum. I can see why you're trying to implicate that, but you have to understand that is not necessarily the case as townies have been known to go rogue and make their own decisions at times. My point is, why would you leave it up to guessing when you can take the sure way out? Unfortunately I am finding it harder and harder to believe you are thinking about the setup from a townie perspective. Town objective- Kill three mafia Mafia objective- Have a townie lynch another townie two times. As a townie, all I care about is if a mafia is dead or not. Whether or not the mafia is flipped doesn't really matter to me. Artanis flipped red but really, who cares? He was probably the most obvious day 1 bus target you can get. Connections are not alignment indicative. By lynching scummy players I have multiple chances to hit a scum in a cycle. I can either get them killed at the lynch, or if I am wrong, the player may be able to redeem himself by shooting a scum. If I lynch a scum, then we have accomplished what we need to do. If I am 'sure' that someone is scum I should lynch him, because even if I am wrong, we still have a chance that a scum will die. If I lynched a townie and he hits my target and flips green, well I just killed two townies
As a mafia I try to orchestrate a situation in which we can have a townie lynch another townie. And this is exactly what you are doing. You are trying to get a townie to offer themselves as a sacrifice to kill me (which I know is a townie)
I agree with this post, not as much with the second part.
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I personally think there is too much martyring 'for the sake of the setup' in this game.
People should be playing to lynch scum. That's basically it.
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On February 07 2014 09:07 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 08:33 WaveofShadow wrote:Where dem other power players at lately? DP it's not your birthday anymore, come back  (Though I loved that gif post) Just got up and reading the thread now, Glad you liked that gif post. I was pretty upset that no one commented on how awesome it was. :D from a cursory glance though rayn is like super super townie because he gives zero fucks about dieing. he wanted to lynch promethelax who is very likely to shoot him as scum or town, and actually pushed for his hammer. He wants to lynch marv who is very likely to shoot him as scum or town. Like it just makes zero sense to suicide in that way as scum. ESPECIALLY because artanis was scum and was guaranteed to get killed at some point.
I don't think giving zero fucks about dying is a towntell, especially in this setup.
And why is marv doing the same thing not indicative to you in that case?
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On February 07 2014 09:08 Cephiro wrote:
@Wave: What do you currently think of the way LSB & Holyflare are currently pushing me / undermining my play / whatever you want to call it?
(I won't deny I haven't been the best contributer, but I don't see how the last few pages of discussion from me have not shown proper effort.)
They have shown proper effort, but I can honestly say I don't necessarily expect everyone to have the same townread on you that I do. If you'll remember I gave you a townread well before any of this began as well, so I'm either wrong or I'm right pre-'large effort.'
I can say I wouldn't lynch you today, and I probably wouldn't want you shot, but I can totally see why other people might think you're scummy. It comes with the lurk Ceph.
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On February 07 2014 09:12 DarthPunk wrote:
ew this cephiro push the last few pages is weird.
Wave you said cephiro was townie based on 'feels' has your read on ceph changed now that you agree with what LSB is sayinG?
No I think Ceph is more likely town. I think Rayn actually has a higher chance to flip scum out of the three of them. Maybe LSB/Rayn equally likely? Not sure. Just because I agree with LSB's ideas doesn't mean I like how he basically did fuck all right up to the point where I realized he was still in the game.
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On February 07 2014 09:14 marvellosity wrote:
DP, your main scumread is offering himself up to be lynched after a mafia died yesterday
please vote for him toute de suite
Can you please stop this?
It really doesn't help.
Here;s a thought: instead of lynching (likely) town, let's lynch (likely) scum!
I'll even throw in some thoughts as to where my HF feels come from!
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On February 07 2014 09:18 marvellosity wrote:
iamp was super townie, very little chance LSB is mafia. LSB isn't really pushing scummy things either, he's just being weird.
LSB was 'weird' in PYP: LoL as well and this is certainly consistent with that, though I have 'heard' that LSB is all about plans and weird shit all game as either alignment. And he doesn't let up either.
As far as iamp goes, I had townfeels from him but I was nowhere even close to as sure as you were. And I like LSB's thread presence less.
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On February 07 2014 09:19 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 09:19 LSB wrote:
Fuuukkk. I just realized that since marv isn't dead Rayn is probably mafia.
I'll do your dirty work for you marv
##unvote
##Vote LSB Explain? O.o
Yeh I'm not following either.
And as far as 'dodgy' goes marv, I'm going on feels. I have no idea who mafia 3 is but I know I want HF lynched. Make of my pseudo-reasoning as you will; I haven't offered anything particularly concrete this game nor do I necessarily plan to (unless something REALLY jumps out at me).
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On February 07 2014 09:20 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 09:14 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 07 2014 09:07 DarthPunk wrote:On February 07 2014 08:33 WaveofShadow wrote:Where dem other power players at lately? DP it's not your birthday anymore, come back (Though I loved that gif post) Just got up and reading the thread now, Glad you liked that gif post. I was pretty upset that no one commented on how awesome it was. :D from a cursory glance though rayn is like super super townie because he gives zero fucks about dieing. he wanted to lynch promethelax who is very likely to shoot him as scum or town, and actually pushed for his hammer. He wants to lynch marv who is very likely to shoot him as scum or town. Like it just makes zero sense to suicide in that way as scum. ESPECIALLY because artanis was scum and was guaranteed to get killed at some point. I don't think giving zero fucks about dying is a towntell, especially in this setup. And why is marv doing the same thing not indicative to you in that case? what?, getting shot is the worst possible outcome for mafia correct? you don't get to shoot town, you are flipped giving maximum information and you confirm the other player as town. So why would scum rayn lynch people who he thinks are scum even though they would shoot him for it? Hint: He wouldn't because it is a really bad play.
It's possible they are both town and wrong about each other, for one. Like I get how everybody feels the need to do the shooting themselves in this game but I really don't think it shows anything.
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On February 07 2014 09:24 LSB wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 09:19 marvellosity wrote:On February 07 2014 09:19 LSB wrote:
Fuuukkk. I just realized that since marv isn't dead Rayn is probably mafia.
I'll do your dirty work for you marv
##unvote
##Vote LSB Explain? O.o If I were mafia and both you and rayn were town, I would be like support your plan and would have lynched you by now so you can shoot rayn. Boom, two townies dead. EZ Day 2. Since you aren't lynched yet, I can only assume that mafia don't want to see you go
....what?
How does this clear anything up?
And what are you referring to marv?
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On February 07 2014 09:25 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 09:24 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 07 2014 09:20 DarthPunk wrote:On February 07 2014 09:14 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 07 2014 09:07 DarthPunk wrote:On February 07 2014 08:33 WaveofShadow wrote:Where dem other power players at lately? DP it's not your birthday anymore, come back (Though I loved that gif post) Just got up and reading the thread now, Glad you liked that gif post. I was pretty upset that no one commented on how awesome it was. :D from a cursory glance though rayn is like super super townie because he gives zero fucks about dieing. he wanted to lynch promethelax who is very likely to shoot him as scum or town, and actually pushed for his hammer. He wants to lynch marv who is very likely to shoot him as scum or town. Like it just makes zero sense to suicide in that way as scum. ESPECIALLY because artanis was scum and was guaranteed to get killed at some point. I don't think giving zero fucks about dying is a towntell, especially in this setup. And why is marv doing the same thing not indicative to you in that case? what?, getting shot is the worst possible outcome for mafia correct? you don't get to shoot town, you are flipped giving maximum information and you confirm the other player as town. So why would scum rayn lynch people who he thinks are scum even though they would shoot him for it? Hint: He wouldn't because it is a really bad play. It's possible they are both town and wrong about each other, for one. Like I get how everybody feels the need to do the shooting themselves in this game but I really don't think it shows anything. Am a solid 2/2 so far. I even had to explain to you why artanis' post was so terrible.
You didn't have to explain it to me, but I wanted to hear it nonetheless.
In any case I don't plan on voting for town to shoot today, simple as that. Too much unknown in doing so, too much association riding on it. Marv, why do you think you haven't been lynched yet today?
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On February 07 2014 09:27 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 09:25 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 07 2014 09:24 LSB wrote:On February 07 2014 09:19 marvellosity wrote:On February 07 2014 09:19 LSB wrote:
Fuuukkk. I just realized that since marv isn't dead Rayn is probably mafia.
I'll do your dirty work for you marv
##unvote
##Vote LSB Explain? O.o If I were mafia and both you and rayn were town, I would be like support your plan and would have lynched you by now so you can shoot rayn. Boom, two townies dead. EZ Day 2. Since you aren't lynched yet, I can only assume that mafia don't want to see you go ....what? How does this clear anything up? And what are you referring to marv? What LSB said makes sense, even though I think it's actually incorrect because townies are nellies. If both rayn and I are town, there are two mafia who would love to see me lynched and shoot rayn. That very much does not appear to be happening. It's an interesting idea.
Ok yeah I see it right as I asked the question of you in the post after this.
This is why I think we should be lynching HF if we agree that he is scum---if we are wrong we get a shot at possible scum (I doubt this) and if we are right we would either have lost you or an equally strong townie anyway, or we have PoE upped for us.
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Marv if we lynch HF today and we tell him to shoot anyone but Rayn, who is it?
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On February 07 2014 09:30 WaveofShadow wrote:
Marv if we lynch HF today and we tell him to shoot anyone but Rayn, who is it?
Actually same question to everyone else in thread, especially those who haven't voted yet.
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On February 07 2014 09:30 DarthPunk wrote:
Omg if marv is actually town I want to kill myself. This is the worst town play I have ever seen.
No one is lynching you yet because the day is only 12 hours long marv. Lynching fast is in direct opposition to town policy and is a good way of getting lynched as scum.
Except I would think if scum had a chance to lynch 2 townies they would take it. Slowplay there makes zero sense, especially considering then they give a chance for the day to progress elsewhere (as it is right now).
I really don't know where I am on Rayn right now.
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On February 07 2014 09:32 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2014 09:30 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 07 2014 09:30 WaveofShadow wrote:
Marv if we lynch HF today and we tell him to shoot anyone but Rayn, who is it? Actually same question to everyone else in thread, especially those who haven't voted yet. You. probably.
Well then in your case I'd have to ask, who do you want lynched? Because as far as I know you had HF as town.
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On February 07 2014 09:33 LSB wrote:
What do I have to do to get people to lynch me? Claim mafia? Post pretty pictures of animals?
Marv you want Rayn dead right? I will shoot him. So lynch me
Weren't you the other one claiming we shouldn't be lynching town today?
What gives?
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On February 07 2014 09:38 LSB wrote:
Why do you guys care about ending cycles early? Day 3 can be 2 fucking weeks long if you need the time.
Who said we're ending the cycle early?
@marv - Sorry buddeh, I'm much more idgaf this game in regards to what I spout into thread. Usually I try to curb the stupidity at least a little. If I'm right about HF I may hang on to this style for a while (even though it may not seem like it to anyone else that I figured him out).
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.quickmeme.com/img/8a/8a483c373e04b23537839e9f9d07df5b1d7d382235269c00a669fa8387612ada.jpg)
