|
On February 04 2014 23:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Are you saying you are scum Wave?
You know, I can actually picture you saying this sentence now. 
No, that is not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is HF's meta case makes some degree of sense only because he is comparing this game to my very last (which isn't a great comparison to begin with). He isn't trying to compare this game to my scumgame 9 months ago---so he is technically right when he says i am playing differently this game as compared to my last. The problem is, that doesn't make me scummy in the slightest.
No amount of wishy-washiness or lack thereof will do so either.
|
On February 04 2014 23:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 23:55 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 04 2014 23:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Are you saying you are scum Wave? You know, I can actually picture you saying this sentence now. No, that is not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is HF's meta case makes some degree of sense only because he is comparing this game to my very last (which isn't a great comparison to begin with). He isn't trying to compare this game to my scumgame 9 months ago---so he is technically right when he says i am playing differently this game as compared to my last. The problem is, that doesn't make me scummy in the slightest. No amount of wishy-washiness or lack thereof will do so either. But my point is I never defended you. I was saying the exact same thing you are saying here. That making a meta case on you based on what HF said is shit.
Still a defense imo, but whatever. You were saying the same thing I was to some degree, true, but you brought up the wrong reason. it has nothing to do with the fact that my only scumgame was played 9 months ago, it has to do with the fact that most meta cases on me are shit, barring those made by marv and I think Prome. People seem to think for some reason that I should play the same way every game or I'm scum, or they seem to think that when I DO play the same way as many of my games (weak D1, wishy-washy etc) that I'm also scum, but neither of those are true.
Be back alter today.
Will answer any questions or whatever desired of me when i get back.
|
On February 05 2014 00:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 23:55 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 04 2014 23:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Are you saying you are scum Wave? You know, I can actually picture you saying this sentence now. No, that is not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is HF's meta case makes some degree of sense only because he is comparing this game to my very last (which isn't a great comparison to begin with). He isn't trying to compare this game to my scumgame 9 months ago---so he is technically right when he says i am playing differently this game as compared to my last. The problem is, that doesn't make me scummy in the slightest. No amount of wishy-washiness or lack thereof will do so either. And also yes, your play is more comparable to what i read in Shadow game than what i have witnessed in other games you have been in lately. In Shadow game, as in this game on D1 you did not stand out as much as you have in other games, for example 4 Persona and Thug Life (i don't remember much of NWM). In those games, to me, you looked far more aggressive and emotional in comparsion to this and Shadow game.
Maybe because you weren't in that game you don't REALLY know, but I am way more aggressive (see Artanis vote/push) in this game compared to Shadow and I believe I stand out more as well. And the reverse about emotion----I was way more emotional in Shadow game than this one as well. I can't tell whether I should expect you to realize that or not...meh.
Self-meta analysis is really really useless though so I'm dropping it.
On February 05 2014 00:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2014 00:09 marvellosity wrote:
Obviously it's not useful, but what else is there to say about it? Just wait and see what he posts later. If you remember what happened in LXII was that nearly every time Cephiro posted was to tell he will post later on.. But yes, you are right.
And this was one of my 'aggressive' games where I pushed him like crazy D1(?), was shot and nobody listened. I almost wish you hadn't brought that to mind though Rayn.
|
On February 05 2014 02:20 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 21:15 marvellosity wrote:
If your accusation on him had included "but I think x or y (in this case Artanis) aren't townie, how can he think this" then I'd be more sympathetic, but you didn't say that - you made it into a general point, and as a general point it's meaningless. There are three scum. I happen to think that marv/dp/iamp/wos are town as am I. So that leaves me with four players who could be scum and of them two have not posted. So I am pretty damn sure at least one of the two players who haven't posted are scum. I didn't spell it out earlier but it makes perfect sense. Why is this a hard concept to follow?
Ehhh. Trouble with this is while I feel the same way I refuse to believe it's simply that easy (and it rarely is).
On February 05 2014 02:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Fucking fantastic. We can all go home, Prome solved the game in 6hours.
gg.
Rayn why I do I feel like you haven't done anything this game?
|
On February 05 2014 02:37 marvellosity wrote:
He's just had 3/4 games as mafia and he hates mafia as you probably know.
His play here is... well, just flick through his filter yourself. It's both nonsense AND flat.
So is your case on Artanis pure meta?
|
On February 05 2014 02:45 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2014 02:45 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 05 2014 02:37 marvellosity wrote:
He's just had 3/4 games as mafia and he hates mafia as you probably know.
His play here is... well, just flick through his filter yourself. It's both nonsense AND flat. So is your case on Artanis pure meta? No. Read his posts. That is my evidence beyond meta.
Narp, not quite following.
Explain?
|
On February 05 2014 02:49 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2014 02:48 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 05 2014 02:45 marvellosity wrote:On February 05 2014 02:45 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 05 2014 02:37 marvellosity wrote:
He's just had 3/4 games as mafia and he hates mafia as you probably know.
His play here is... well, just flick through his filter yourself. It's both nonsense AND flat. So is your case on Artanis pure meta? No. Read his posts. That is my evidence beyond meta. Narp, not quite following. Explain? Well you go to page 1 and you click on his filter and you read his posts and you go "gosh darnit, that looks awful! marv was right!" then you come back to the thread and you go "wow marv, you so cute, I want to touch your bum" and I go "maybe later Wave, but I'm glad you managed to read"
Narp.
Explain please?
I don't go for this 'you should know,' business.
(ie if I have a townread on you right now it's not because I 'should have one by now,' or you're obvious town and everyone should know that)
I'd like to hear it from the mouth that is connected to the sexy bum.
|
On February 05 2014 03:32 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2014 03:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:On February 05 2014 03:20 Holyflare wrote:On February 05 2014 03:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:On February 05 2014 03:07 Holyflare wrote:
Rayn, the quote about DP at the top of my Prome case had nothing to do with my case on DP, it was to do with wave's response to it which should have been quite obvious as the question was directed at wave. I think it's pretty clear what you are saying in that paragraph but, just to clarify: Do you think DP is mafia or not? I'll have to re-read him thoroughly but from what I got on my run through and what I was thinking after things cooled down, probably not. umm.. On February 04 2014 14:45 Holyflare wrote:On February 04 2014 12:00 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 04 2014 10:49 Holyflare wrote:On February 04 2014 10:45 iamperfection wrote:
dp can get emotional as town.
answer my question dp its quite a simple one. Yes. There is a difference though. Getting emotional in the game when people aren't doing something or are town that aren't listening is when it mostly happens. Getting emotional at someone pushing "shit cases" and being "awful" shouldn't trigger those same emotions though, your first thought should be that they are scum pushing an agenda and then further investigate. Especially as DP has said "HF is a good town player that I listened to" (in Titanic). So if he thinks I am being shit in this game he should jump to the conclusion that I am being scum. Yet, this anger relates to someone that has a scum mindset of a towny pushing a case that doesn't "make sense to me even if I AM scum". Catching up, but....um...did you or did you not read my reactions to Toad's/Foolishness's terrible cases on me last game? Your conclusions are completely wrong imo. Toad's case was legitimately beyond terrible. This case was totally unjustified rage on a case that wasn't awful. How can you equate the two things at all? The fact that 3 people jumped onto him because of that shows that other people agree why so have you taken the opposite point of view? Please explain how my conclusions are wrong. Okay then what do you mean by the bolded part? What i read is you tell your case on DP is good and ask Wave why does he not agree with it, no? I think what I said "made sense" in a way because that is what a normal reaction is (DP isn't normal  PPP). It's less about my stance on DP and more about why Wave has taken the totally OPPOSITE point of view (in comparison to 3 people that shared the view) and compared it to a case that I thought had very little relevance. I used that post as a way to get to the bottom of what wave is thinking in this game as I know he likes to conspiracy theorise and come up with whacky situations based on nothing and I wanted to know if that was the case here.
lol I'm scum because I didn't agree with you and 3 other people?
Read Shadow game again, bro.
And as far as 'normal' reactions go, where does VE fit on that spectrum of yours?
Personally I think I just read people better than you and you're a little salty aboot it.
Catching up.
|
On February 05 2014 04:07 LSB wrote:Midway through the thread but I wanted to post this first. Reads will come after I'm done with the thread This seems obvious to me but it is pretty important Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 11:09 marvellosity wrote:
The absolute best thing for mafia in this sort of game is to have townies riled up and wanting to take vengeful shots. Ironically.
Mafia have much less space to hide in if people are rational and aren't self-hammering just so they can shoot the person that can piss them off.
Anyone should be able to see that that is absolutely the best thing for mafia. Worst thing for mafia = everyone being rational so they can't take funky shots if they're lynched under the guise of emotion or having a laugh. Maybe Artanis is town and he's not going to bow to the will of the people, but if he's in danger of being lynched, it should be clear how and why his top suspect is, and we can go off that. There isn't a LYLO in this game. Even if it is 3v2 and we mislynch, the player has the chance to kill a mafia and keep the game going. The only way the mafia can win is to stir up emotions in the town. In fact this is why I don't think we should have people say who they would shoot. This paints a big target on their back for the mafia as "Should we push this guy" or "Should we take the pressure off of him". After all to the mafia there is no difference between lynching a mafia, and lynching a town who would shoot mafia.
LSB I love your plans.
And yeah I had forgotten about that; a mislynch at 4v3 means we're still in it if we shoot scum. Still don't think we have anything resembling proper vig in this game (from my earlier comment somewhere in my filter about LYLO).
Still reading. Will stop posting until fully caught up sorry,
|
On February 05 2014 04:35 Holyflare wrote:Like my thought process would be. Oh Holyflare said some good points about artanis ("vote artanis"), I think artanis is scummy so holyflare is probably right etc etc +town points for pointing it out and discussion! Oh, some rage is going on in thread, someone asked me who my reads are let's respond! Hmm, sooo, the guy that actually started some discussion and made me vote for who i am voting for is probably a + in my books rather than scummy, then there's the afkers and the guy i'm voting for sooooo yeh that guy who made me vote for my target is ok in my books that would be logical, however, out of nowhere BAM holy/artanis/dp??????????????????? Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 13:16 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 04 2014 13:12 Promethelax wrote:
you missed the thread a bit there. Which makes me feel better given how many times I've already almost posted in their game.
WoS: will you play along? You liked my thought that the posters so far felt townie. Which of the players who have posted feels the least townie? Artanis, HF, mebbe DP. I don't like giving iamp a townread because I feel he hasn't contributed much but I give him one anyway for 'feels+' reasons. You're probably somewhere above DP level right now, on towny side of null.
Hey, guess what?
Read the thread. The question I was asked was 'Which of the players who have posted feel the least towny?'
Not "ZOMG LIST SCUM PLZ"
I have never called you scum this game, not even once, and for some reason you have gotten it in your head that I'm after you because you hadn't done anything at that point in the game for me to find you specifically towny.
This prompts a filter dive once I'm done, because that's honestly a horrible reason to start in on me, and your other reasons for suspicion haven't been fantastic either.
K no more posting till donez fo realz
+ Show Spoiler +
|
Wait so LSB says that Artanis's mafia claim is serious, and votes me.
K.
Holy are you taking the place of tunnelRayn in this game?
Are you going to make me fight with you and try to bash it through your thick skull that I am not scum? Because I'll do it, and it won't be pretty. And if it turns out you're scum, I'll even do it so well that you'll be forced to back down and find another mislynch.
How does that sound bbygrl?
|
On February 05 2014 06:26 Holyflare wrote:
wave confirmed town
I wish this were serious, because it would the upcoming filter dive even more fun for me.
|
On February 05 2014 06:29 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2014 06:22 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 05 2014 04:35 Holyflare wrote:Like my thought process would be. Oh Holyflare said some good points about artanis ("vote artanis"), I think artanis is scummy so holyflare is probably right etc etc +town points for pointing it out and discussion! Oh, some rage is going on in thread, someone asked me who my reads are let's respond! Hmm, sooo, the guy that actually started some discussion and made me vote for who i am voting for is probably a + in my books rather than scummy, then there's the afkers and the guy i'm voting for sooooo yeh that guy who made me vote for my target is ok in my books that would be logical, however, out of nowhere BAM holy/artanis/dp??????????????????? On February 04 2014 13:16 WaveofShadow wrote:On February 04 2014 13:12 Promethelax wrote:
you missed the thread a bit there. Which makes me feel better given how many times I've already almost posted in their game.
WoS: will you play along? You liked my thought that the posters so far felt townie. Which of the players who have posted feels the least townie? Artanis, HF, mebbe DP. I don't like giving iamp a townread because I feel he hasn't contributed much but I give him one anyway for 'feels+' reasons. You're probably somewhere above DP level right now, on towny side of null. Hey, guess what? Read the thread. The question I was asked was 'Which of the players who have posted feel the least towny?' Not "ZOMG LIST SCUM PLZ" I have never called you scum this game, not even once, and for some reason you have gotten it in your head that I'm after you because you hadn't done anything at that point in the game for me to find you specifically towny. This prompts a filter dive once I'm done, because that's honestly a horrible reason to start in on me, and your other reasons for suspicion haven't been fantastic either. K no more posting till donez fo realz + Show Spoiler + I know what you were asked. The fact you followed my reasoning and voted the target that I made should exclude me and artanis being in any sort of list you made altogether. You valued prome for a post of his saying "yeh everyone talking is totes town" despite the fact it was at like 3am EU time and so his only targets weren't lurkers they were just asleep europeans. Your other example was DP, despite you posting why his rage IS TOWNY. Why would you disagree with the point I made about his rage being from scum and then backtrack to put him in that top list of people that are talking? That didn't make sense either.
I didn't make the list of people talking either.
I was simply asked 'who do you find the least towny?'
If I were asked, "who is scum?' the list would have included Artanis and that's it.
I can't help that you're butthurt about having your name placed so close to his.
As far as DP, I agree that his rage is extremely likely to be town, but that doesn't stop me from keeping in the back of my head the fact that DP is VERY well known for raging like this, so I will not for the entirety of this game, completely put it out of my head that he is capable of faking it. There were other people in the game at the time I was more sure of than him, and it was well before the retarded fuckfest with marv.
Now silence while I read you.
|
Like people really know how to nitpick at retarded shit in this game.
I can't remember who did more nitpicking last game, town or scum. I think it was actually 50:50
|
Holyflare
On February 04 2014 10:49 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 10:45 iamperfection wrote:
dp can get emotional as town.
answer my question dp its quite a simple one. Yes. There is a difference though. Getting emotional in the game when people aren't doing something or are town that aren't listening is when it mostly happens. Getting emotional at someone pushing "shit cases" and being "awful" shouldn't trigger those same emotions though, your first thought should be that they are scum pushing an agenda and then further investigate. Especially as DP has said "HF is a good town player that I listened to" (in Titanic). So if he thinks I am being shit in this game he should jump to the conclusion that I am being scum. Yet, this anger relates to someone that has a scum mindset of a towny pushing a case that doesn't "make sense to me even if I AM scum".
I can't get over how shit bad this post is. I think it's honestly so bad it makes him town.
He professes to know why people get emotional (people aren't doing shit/town isn't listening) yet he just came form Shadow game where plenty of people were emotional and for NONE of those reasons. He then says you shouldn't get emotional for people pushing shit cases but again, I bring up the example of myself. Foolishness and Toad brought up shit ass cases on me and I called them scum for it, but I ALSO got emotional as hell. He uses a meta example from a past game to try and apply it to every single case for DP ('DP called me good once so he must listen to me in every game?' wtf), but what makes me think he is town for this pile of balls is the fact that he assumes here that his case and points against DP are good and DP is scum for not understanding them and not reacting 'appropriately,' or raging as scum against a bad/incomprehensible town case against him. Only town would dare to be so arrogant, especially considering it seems as though Holy was not riling him up on purpose (though I can't honestly say for certain I believe it).
When I responded to this originally, HF posted:
Toad's case was legitimately beyond terrible. This case was totally unjustified rage on a case that wasn't awful. How can you equate the two things at all? The fact that 3 people jumped onto him because of that shows that other people agree why so have you taken the opposite point of view?
Please explain how my conclusions are wrong.
If this was the case, why did Foolishness's case gain traction to begin with? Why did nobody react to Toad's horrible shit like I did? Here you're trying to use the fact that people reactively jumped on DP for leverage as well when you deserve none as I stated just before. I don't give a shit if everyone in the game agrees with a case; if I think it's wrong and/or bad I'm going to sure as hell say so.
His case on Prome has been otherwise dealt with; I don't believe anything that was pointed out within to be alignment indicative.
Case on me has dealt with piecewise as well---the 'scumread' on him, talking about DP, bad use of meta. The only thing I haven't mentioned is my read of Artanis I don't think so I'll address it here.
Feels, bro. Nothing more. Even though my earlier logic was proved wrong through meta on why he is scum, I remained comfortable in leaving my vote on because of the way Artanis reacted when placed under a little pressure---again not much more than feels.
On February 04 2014 08:27 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2014 08:26 iamperfection wrote:
Hrm wave are you being serious? Was wondering the same thing. Accuses marv of taking a joke too seriously right before taking a joke too seriously himself.
Something about him flipping on me here and then delving into policy talk doesn't sit right with me. Can't quite explain. Don't care to try beyond this. I asked marv what his specific reasons were because I was trying to see if he could put any of my 'feels' into proper words to explain why even after Artanis' return I found him scummy, and while I like his reasoning it's not quite in alignment with what I have.
In any case, vote stands, I don't honestly care right now if it's not good enough for Holy; maybe it'll be good enough for everyone else, but we'll see. I expect not. It seems to be it would be absolutely retarded to stick on Artanis like this if I were scum when there was plenty of reason for pulling off whenever, but WIFOM-BOB-OMB, so people can draw their own conclusions.
Back to Holy:
On February 05 2014 03:20 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2014 03:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:On February 05 2014 03:07 Holyflare wrote:
Rayn, the quote about DP at the top of my Prome case had nothing to do with my case on DP, it was to do with wave's response to it which should have been quite obvious as the question was directed at wave. I think it's pretty clear what you are saying in that paragraph but, just to clarify: Do you think DP is mafia or not? I'll have to re-read him thoroughly but from what I got on my run through and what I was thinking after things cooled down, probably not.
This interests me immensely. Why did it take for things to cool down before you have a 'probable' townread on DP? Want to hear this reasoning.
Holy v Prome:
I remember it somewhere said that Holy gets douchey/ragey as scum. Is that what's happening here? I haven't seen anyone this rabid about things in a while, and what's more, many of his points regarding Prome make sense to some degree and I can sort of understand why he calls marv out here, but what is that supposed to accomplish? Every single 'discussion' that Holy has gotten into with anyone has shit up this thread to some degree or another----but the thing his in his posting it looks as though he is genuinely attempting to figure shit out. He is at the very least re-evaluating his reads as necessary.
I wish I knew Holy better than I do (can't go off of voice games otherwise I'd catch him npnp) because I'd have a better 'feel' for him otherwise, but for now I can't tell if this is just his style. He certainly was rabid enough to go after Hapa and Gonzaw in Shadow, both extremely strong townies (maybe not at the time but still), here it's me/Prome and to some extent DP...although apparently people said in Shadow he was mimicking his townstyle?
His suspicion towards me isn't completely retarded so I can't call him scum off of that, and there are things in his play that tell me he's town but the way he goes about doing things just doesn't sit right with me.
WISHY-WASHY ALERT!!
I'm going null on Holyflare right now. Artanis dies today, and I'm more interested to see if rayn/Cephiro does anything useful today. Especially rayn because I'm not getting townrayn feels this game.
|
Be back in a couple hours-ish. Usual time.
|
Wow, absolutely nothing, huh?
Alright well marv, I don't particularly feel like circlejerking it to Artanis (unless of course you do), so any thoughts on Holyflare or Prome for me?
Actually I think Holy asked you about Prome and me? Mabes you could do that instead.
Or one of those.
Or none of them
Whatever.
|
On February 05 2014 10:03 marvellosity wrote:
yeah I will, although I can't really be bothered now. When I think I snared a mafia my motivation to do long slogs that I don't think beforehand will achieve much is diminished :p
Still unsure about how Holy came back into the thread talking about only Prome for a while and ignoring all the other stuff. That's pretty weird to me and it's sticking with me. On the other hand he has a lot of shorter responses that I'd characterise more towards his towngame. So meh.
Prome seems pretty comfortable in his own skin this game. Maybe Holy got annoyed but Prome dismissing his whole case in 2 little sentences seems more likely to come from town. His excuse about wanting to play with Artanis is... meh. The post I quoted from Artanis earlier was pretty terrible and I'd have hoped he'd have jumped on that. Thing is, like with Holy and you, there's more time...
You're probably the one I have the least grasp on without searching through your filter. Your play seems normalish, maybe a little more needly than I'd expect. The specifics that other people have brought up, I dunno without checking for myself right now.
The net of it is, I guess I'd bet on all 3 of you being town for the moment, but I'd be extremely unsurprised if one of you were actually mafia.
Cephiro (european schedule) never showed up.
Acceptable post, good sir.
What would make you switch to a Cephiro lynch today, if anything?
|
|
|
On February 05 2014 10:07 marvellosity wrote:
I'd like to lynch Cephiro to shoot rayn, probably. Even though quite possibly Cephiro's alignment might be a little bit more of a mystery. I'd just... like to know rayn's alignment with more certainty given he has more posts and interactions in the thread.
I was actually thinking up some form of this but I'm old and my synapses clearly aren't as sexy as marv's.
Alright so we have 3 votes on Artanis right now, we are within lynch territory in theory. I think it's too early to try to hammer (hence unvote) because not having Cephiro do a whole lot today and not having Artanis come back means we may not learn as much as we could...also a lot of people in general haven't committed to anything one way or another.
At what point do we ##YOLO?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
