EPTNormal Mini Mafia: Episode I
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
P.S. Don't claim yet, Boxers. This only works if everybody agrees. No claim strategy should be done partway because that is always the worst option. | ||
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
On January 20 2014 10:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: Here is the problem: If the named VT's claim it gives mafia info about the setup.
Every single possible scenario only helps mafai and not town, so no, don't claim named VT's because they can't be confirmed and it only helps mafia if they know how many Named VT's there are. Discussion closed. I don't think it's quite that simple. I don't care if there are no named VTs or 1 or 2 or 3. Yes scum will be learn things about the setup, but honestly that doesn't matter because scum already know that there are X to Y power roles from their configuration. What claiming now does is prevent scum from being able to fake claim a named VT later. It prevents stupid things happening at lynches. Additionally, if we have power roles it gives them info about where they should begin using their powers. Even if scum decide to fake claim now, it's not like we're giving the named VTs a free pass, we're just treating them like miller claims where the info helps us and prevents scum from claiming something like that (e.g. miller) in the future. That's all. It all depends if you think it matters if scum knowing the setup is a bad thing or if the claims could even help our power roles. I'll let other people chime in on this. Ok. Back to this crazy Niners-Seahawks game. | ||
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
On January 20 2014 11:09 thrawn2112 wrote: When'd you start writing that Crossfire? Idk. During some random 2 minute commercial break. I'll think about this issue more, but I gtg now, though. See you all tomorrow. | ||
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
town kush's filter in "##" Mafia as a smurf Choice quotes from his filter that game (where he was town): On October 30 2013 23:26 OOHCHILD wrote: Reason why I nuked WoS: It was a very impulsive move. I was just pissed that clarity had been lynched instead of him, since i had a pretty good townread on clarity. Should be pretty obvious by now but my scumread on WoS changes every second, from probs town to OMG SUCMMIEST PLAYER in the game as I weight the arguments in my head. Right now I could see him flipping either way. I tried to read through his filter last night but I didn't do it full and I wasn't fully present and I didn't make any good conclusions. On October 30 2013 23:29 OOHCHILD wrote: I was just really angry at him and I wanted to use my powers on someone so I figured eh why not him. Also my read of him changes a lot so I figured cant be that bad because he could be scum anyway. Plus I dont know what it is about WoS but his attitude and everything about him pisses me off for some reason. NO offense WOS! It's me, not you. On November 01 2013 16:18 OOHCHILD wrote: you know im town when i start conspiracy theorizing Hmmmm. After reading his filter more from here and ##, I don't know how sure I am of him being mafia, but I'll still post it because it's relevant. These posts by him from ## made me change my mind plus a gut town read I had on him based on the early game. On October 31 2013 02:21 OOHCHILD wrote: It's kind of lame that everyone wants to lynch me for shit I can't control. And prome in my recent scum games I have not been bussing scum and defending townies. I really only ever did that in games with people who didn't know about it. I remember there was this game where someone who knew about it came in as a replacement and I got fucked. On October 31 2013 04:26 OOHCHILD wrote: cant stay but wtf vayne Why so wishy washy? Also I have never played with even a shred of decency on d1 EVER. TL;DR I'm conflicted on kush's play right now. thrawn brings up decent points about kush's meta, but also I trust what kush says about his own meta when playing as town. Time to go find someone else cause I'm not too sure about kush either way. | ||
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
On January 21 2014 12:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am pretty sure zarepath is mafia. About half of his stuff in his case on VE has happened before he makes these posts: If he really thinks that stuff in his case is scummy i doubt he would defend VE against other people for the same stuff earlier on.. ##unvote ##Vote: zarepath I'll look into kush tomorrow in more detail. something does not add up in his scumslip finding. I don't know if I agree with you. He says he is scummy because of all these things, not just 1 of these things. He even specifically says that his first point isn't scummy in and of itself. On January 21 2014 03:46 zarepath wrote: I am thinking VE is scummy based off of a few things: 1. Lots of early discussion about the two plans + Show Spoiler + He talked a lot about the two plans and asked others about them, and said so many things about them that people were mixing up which plan he was talking about. Not necessarily scummy in and of itself, but a very easy topic to talk about if you don't actually want to start making reads on people | ||
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
On January 21 2014 13:06 thrawn2112 wrote: maaaaan that is an unhelpful post crossfire your kush read is nothing but meta. a bigass post with nothing but meta and no conclusion. why on earth did you post that? cause I did a bunch of work and didn't feel like posting nothing after reading about kush for however long i did. I also figured it would be helpful in case people wanted to see my thoughts on kush since he seemed to be a hot topic (well at least you constantly pushed him) | ||
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
On January 20 2014 11:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: + Show Spoiler +Could lynch for that post. On January 21 2014 10:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: ##Vote: Crossfire99 I'll go back here until this guy says something. He followed this with a vote on thrawn On January 20 2014 10:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: + Show Spoiler +Well in that case: ##Vote: thrawn2112 There is nothing scummy in what kush has done so far. On January 21 2014 10:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: Ugh.. Artanis is probably town after all. I kinda get his thought process but it's not good..  Artanis my vote on thrawn was not a joke. It was a serious vote, i do not joke vote. Then the one against Wile (Slam) On January 20 2014 12:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: What the hell? How can scum hide? You just said a while ago you don't like kush's plan which means you don't take claims for granted. Who cares if someone claims named VT when most likely being lynched. It does not mean shit unless you can tell for sure their claim cannot be false which you can't. If we have named VT's claim now we have 0-4 claims. In case we have 0 claims we learn the setup. If we have 1-3 claims we learn that there are 0-3 fakeclaims which in fact tells us absolutely nothing as you can't confirm anything. If we have 4 claims we learn that we have at least 1 scum in the claimed VT's, one fucking mafia in a group of four people, lol. In every situation mafia learns how many power roles town has, possibly even the whole setup depending on the claim numbers and their roles. Do i need to explain more why the claiming does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING GOOD TO THE TOWN AND ONLY HELPS MAFIA?!?!?!!? VE - Crossfire - thesmurfdude / all those people look terrible. VE + Crossfire for not realising something obvious while agreeing that we should not blindly trust claims smurfdude for not reading the thread or if he has for making a useless post that does not contribute towards anything and asks an useless question that has been explained in thread already. ##unvote ##Vote: Wile E. Coyote Next up is bum. On January 20 2014 22:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: So here are bumatlarge's posts: green: believes claim red: says claim is fake which is it? This is a question that has been answered twice in the thread already. Useless "contribution" or not even reading the thread. Scum hunting is not strong with that one. The first part is entirely false and that's all he's talking about. Again implying the claim is true, and now he is not really suspicious of VE in the end. TLDR; Here's what bum's posts say this far - Does believe the claim but does not believe the claim - Says VE is scummy but VE is not necessarily scummy - Asks a question that's been answered 2 times already. ##Vote: bumatlarge Then kush On January 21 2014 02:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: ##unvote ##Vote: kushm4sta stop it already bum, i have no idea what you are trying to do or why you get angry for no reason at all. If i have one invalid point in my case that does not make other points invalid as you try to tell here. I have no read on VE. If i had to give something i'd say scum but i dunno yet. artanis has the next honor On January 21 2014 04:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: I kinda wanna lynch Artanis for his stupid ass case and unwillingness to do anything. And now zarepeth. On January 21 2014 12:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am pretty sure zarepath is mafia. About half of his stuff in his case on VE has happened before he makes these posts: If he really thinks that stuff in his case is scummy i doubt he would defend VE against other people for the same stuff earlier on.. ##unvote ##Vote: zarepath I'll look into kush tomorrow in more detail. something does not add up in his scumslip finding. Remember this is only a little more than 24 hours into a game and he is already attacking and voting for this many people!? This screams just throwing out cases and hoping one sticks. | ||
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
If the claim scares people off his lynch I'd be willing to vote Balla purely because of his "case" against me. On January 21 2014 17:09 Balla24 wrote: I don't like Crossfire at all. His case on Rayn is super weird, where exactly does what rayn does make him scum? He's pressuring a lot of people with cases and votes. Crossfire is calling him scum for not committing to them and switching targets a lot but how does that make rayn scum?? It doesn't. It makes him town. From town perspective everybody starts as neutral and either gets a mafia read or a town read... its the opposite as scum. Rayn builds cases on people he thinks are scum, and posts reasoning too, yet Crossfire just latches onto the action itself and NOT the reasoning of rayn's cases. Rayn is one of the most active people in this game, why does Crossfire feel the need to pressure rayn about something so weak? Then there's this: Where rayn points out why claiming Boxers is a bad thing for town and a good thing for mafia. He essentially brushes that off by saying "mafia already knows information about the setup" without really explaining what. Rayn gives him the courtesy to write out his expected outcomes from the plan but Crossfire does not reciprocate. ##vote Crossfire99 His bolded section is just wrong. It's like he just stopped reading my post after the green section or is trying to purposely misconstrue what I'm saying because there is no reason to stop reading in the middle of the sentence. Especially since the very next sentence explains what the advantage (expected outcome) of my plan was, preventing scum from fakeclaiming before a lynch (*cough* zarepeth *coug*). On January 22 2014 02:31 Balla24 wrote: Past 2 days have been busier than normal. Can't refresh and spam conversations with people like I normally do which is unfortunate. It's looking a lot better moving forward though. As far as Crossfire: His case against rayn is bad and really construed, its very large but the only thing he is attacking is the fact that rayn has jumped around a lot. Like it doesn't make sense to put that much effort into that first off, and secondly why does he feel the need to pressure rayn of all people who is active as hell and will be more readable because of it. It just feels very wrong. The second bit about the Boxers claiming thing is obvious that there is scum motivation for discussing it and getting the town onboard. So him brushing off what was said is super suspicious. Other people who look bad: Jonnylaw, Artanis. Artanis's game plan is really weird and underwhelming to me. He comes in trying to hard read rayn, accuses him of being scum and then leaves. Not only did he only accuse you of being scum because he thinks you have "something to hide" but you had done so much already and now that there was more. This quote where he restates his scum read on me also doesn't work. He's saying I shouldn't pressure rayn just because he's active. That's dumb. If you think someone could be scum, you don't just not pressure them because they're active. He also just assumes that my plan is purely scum motivated and didn't have a legitimate point which was what I said about the whole prevents scum from fake claiming. Basically, Balla seems to purposely miscontrue what I'm saying and paint it in a scummy light instead of just actually reading what I'm saying. | ||
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
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Crossfire99
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On January 22 2014 06:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: No townie wants anyone modkilled especially when mafia has fakeclaims and it's easy to prove and i have asked the hosts about it already. I assumed this as well about the fake claims. It's always been something that's been "standard" to me. You give mafia a role pm written by you to prevent that them from being caught on the specific phrasing of the pm. Apparently it's illegal to even post that though? I don't think that's right. I guess going strictly by the wording of the rule, what zare did was illegal, but I've seen other people do that in other games and not be modkilled for it because it was assumed people got fake claims. I don't know what to believe now. | ||
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
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Crossfire99
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On January 22 2014 06:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: Crossfire99 you're wrong. You never explained how you draw the "mafia already knows information about the setup" conclusion because it's incorrect. Because they either have 2 goons or not. I figured it was obvious. They then can narrow things down based on that. 2 goons means 1 powerrole and 1-2 named VTs. If not, there's more spread for the options, but they still know things. | ||
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
On January 22 2014 06:48 raynpelikoneet wrote: Crossfire, I somewhat agree what you say about Balla but you look way worse because you just dropped your case on me for no reason. Your play all game has made no sense to me and i have no idea what are you going to achieve. Eh, I don't know what I think about you, so I put you on the back burner because I feel stronger about others instead of you. No one seems to think you're scummy now, so I'll have to see what you look like later. Maybe I'm just too paranoid about how active you can be as scum because of ##, but I'm basically waiting to see what happens and reevaluating you then. | ||
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
On January 22 2014 06:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yes that's true and i missed it in the first place. Why did you not just say that in the first place? cause I thought is was obvious T_T and didn't realize it was an issue | ||
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
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Crossfire99
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On January 22 2014 06:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: No i really looked it only from town role perspective, not from scum at all. What do you think about kush? gut feeling now is town, because of the accidental non vt claim and now I'm seeing the "wildness" and big swings in opinions on players I was seeing when he smurfed and was town in ## (which I though was really weird because i never played with him or observed a game with him in it). | ||
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
I read this quote as him doing this. I assumed scum got fake claims and therefore know the structure of at least named vts and regular vts, so this made him town in my eyes, but then he didn't act like I expected him too so I got confused. | ||
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:00 Crossfire99 wrote: gut feeling now is town, because of the accidental non vt claim and now I'm seeing the "wildness" and big swings in opinions on players I was seeing when he smurfed and was town in ## (which I though was really weird because i never played with him or observed a game with him in it). | ||
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
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Crossfire99
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Crossfire99
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Crossfire99
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On January 22 2014 07:02 Crossfire99 wrote: I read this quote as him doing this. I assumed scum got fake claims and therefore know the structure of at least named vts and regular vts, so this made him town in my eyes, but then he didn't act like I expected him too so I got confused. | ||
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: That's dimb, he thought i claimed named VT, there's nothing more to read into that. no, he isn't claiming either named VT or VT there. if he was a VT, he would have known that your role name goes along with how VTs are named. If he is a named VT, he would know that that isn't a named VT role pm. And now since he says he is just a VT, I no longer believe this was a town slip and actually a scum slip. | ||
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: That's dimb, he thought i claimed named VT, there's nothing more to read into that. no, he is accidentally revealing what info he has. if he was a VT, he would have known that your role name goes along with how VTs are named. If he is a named VT, he would know that that isn't a named VT role pm. And now since he says he is just a VT, I no longer believe this was a town slip and actually a scum slip. | ||
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
On January 22 2014 07:38 raynpelikoneet wrote: I didn't fucking claim anything and he thought i did. Every single person has a different "name". If i am a cop and you are a cop you can be named "raynpelikoneet" and i can be named "Crossfire99" and it does not tell anything about our role. kushmasta thought i was claiming named VT for some reason, probably because his "name" was not Z-Boson and he thought i have a different role than he does. If anything he is claiming vanilla town there, because i was talking about my "name" and he thought i climed something. So yes, if he is not mafi he is vanilla town - based on that post alone, not power role. Well let me put it this way. I didn't assume that power roles had names cause they're power roles, though I see now they probably do and if you asked about this it would be helpful to know. Actually now hearing kush's explanation and what you said, I don't want to lynch him lol. Balla anyone? | ||
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
I'm down. | ||
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Crossfire99
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On January 22 2014 07:58 VisceraEyes wrote: Hi guys, dinner is keeping me away from the thread. wtf 10 pages in 2 hours? I can't read it all in time. I'll read it all after the flip. what else do you expect but last minute tl mafia shenanigans. | ||
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
it depends on the game, but especially games with *cough* BlazingHand *cough* are known to have lots of last minute shenannies | ||
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Crossfire99
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On January 22 2014 08:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: Can't do anything else because people are stupid and start playing at the last hour every game. Blame my schedule. I don't control it. I'm here when I can be here. | ||
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Crossfire99
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Crossfire99
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Crossfire99
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Crossfire99
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On January 23 2014 00:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: no no no. This does not make any sense. + Show Spoiler + On January 22 2014 04:06 Balla24 wrote: yeah yeah jonny we get it and its true i havent been the same Balla, that's gonna change Why are you so worried this game though? Usually you are all "well Balla is generally active enough that I can read him later". I'm fine with lynching zarepath. You guys have both done all the work, which makes you more town definitely, but I still need to see what Crossfire and Artanis are doing before I settle 100% ##unvote ##vote zarepath On January 22 2014 04:25 Balla24 wrote: lol Aristotle? You mean artanis? On January 22 2014 04:33 Balla24 wrote: I disagree, what JL and rayn are pointing out IS scummy to me. He's contradicting himself and playing exactly like how he says scum players play. With that said though... with artanis jumping on him 2/3 of my current scum reads are voting on him. That doesn't sit well with me. Still want to see what crossfire does though but i'm already reconsidering. Why don't you think what rayn and JL are saying about zarepath is scummy kush? It looks scummy to me and clearly them. On January 22 2014 04:41 Balla24 wrote: You tunneled Rayn for not playing along with your troll, which is fine. You can have a scum read on him for that if you want. But he's done so much more than just not play along with you, which you didn't really say anything about. Your re-entry is consistent though. I just feel like you can and should have been doing so much more. Which is why I'm underwhelmed by your play so far. My read on crossfire is what I posted in my case, nothing has changed since he hasn't come back and posted anything. So still scum. JL is the weaker of the 3 that I don't feel very confident about. On January 22 2014 04:44 Balla24 wrote: Also I'm still having trouble understanding why you chose to try to get rayn to counterclaim your scum claim. What happens if he plays along? Rayn told me it was a joke and wrote it off so I didn't pay it any mind but it turns out you had some real motivation for it so I do want an explanation afterall. On January 22 2014 04:45 Balla24 wrote: EBWOP: Why you chose to claim SCUM as opposed to anything else. On January 22 2014 05:03 Balla24 wrote: Sure that's reasonable. But why did you chose to call rayn scum based off of only that and barely mention other things that make him scum. Like you said: But you didn't say how he was destroying the town atmosphere... On January 22 2014 05:18 Balla24 wrote: @thrawn: I don't really have any experience with Slam at all. So let me ask you this: You seemed to not consider the fact that he is claimed BoxeR. Does that fact change anything with how he might play. To me he seemed to get much less serious after he claimed BoxeR. Similar to when people become confirmed town they start sucking and not caring as much. Do you see Slam doing that here? Interesting tidbit is the soft bus of Jonny because he's the 3rd most scummy in Balla's eyes, but he's not really sure. Standard sorta scummy but maybe not spiel that scum do all the time especially this early. | ||
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
Unless he comes back with some amazing stuff, this vote is staying here. As for the last scum, that's more difficult. I would guess it would be either bum, artanis, or barristan. I've read through their filters and nothing has jumped out at me, so it looks like I'm gonna have to spend so more time on this later because I gotta peace now. Sorry, but I'm crazy busy. | ||
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Crossfire99
United States1529 Posts
On January 24 2014 06:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I think it might be Barristan. I'm not sure though. The only point that really goes against him was the one I pointed out earlier, other than that nothing really stands out from his filter. If it's not Barristan, then I imagine it's one of the people that's town for the wrong reasons. It could be someone town just for a claim (Zarepath, Wile E, Thrawn). I haven't looked into them too much. Still plenty of time and I'm pretty sure on my other townreads. -snipped- Basically, he's attacking what he knows is a fake claim because mafia only have a rb which means 3 named vts is impossible. This is the same thing that bum knows to be false, but he knows it is because he's a parity cop. (I still can't believe you claimed now...you could have at least tried a little bit to move the lynch to artanis before claiming, but whatever lol). ##Unvote JonnyLaw ##Vote Artanis[Xp] | ||
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Crossfire99
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Crossfire99
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Crossfire99
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 (This needs to be thought hard about for this setup in general because it might make it too hard for scum because it's a big risk to fake claim named VT for fear of a setup in which it is impossible to have X named VTs with the amount of power roles in the game.)Day 1 lynch is even more hilarious knowing Zare was mafia. Props to him for claiming. You probably would have survived a few days, but I don't know if you would have been able to pull off the win. It would have been tough. It's good to see you back Keirathi. Now that I know it's you, I can see it being you because you were always heavily into meta, but I had no clue who you were and honestly didn't care too much lol. Don't be too hard on yourself, Darth. Everybody makes mistakes hosting. I've made a few while hosting as well and will make more in the future. Also no matter who is hosting, there will always be this potential because people screw up because that's real life and there's nothing you can do to 100% prevent it. I also apologize if anyone was upset by my lurking. My schedule doesn't allow me to devote large chunks of time to the game for me to post a ton, but I still tried my best with what time I had. | ||
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