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LSB
United States5171 Posts
Whats this about vets getting preferential treatment? Does it actually exist? I don't notice it. And why is it a bad thing that vets get preferential treatment even if it does exisit? Shouldnt people who proved they can play multiple mafia games without flaming/inactivity deserve more leeway than someone who is known for ragequitting games? | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
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LSB
United States5171 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On January 06 2014 16:16 DarthPunk wrote: OK i just flat out disagree with those being similar things. But that is ok. I still love you. Well that's your opinion, and everyone has different opinions. That's the reason why it needs to be clear what you are allowed to do and what is against the rules. Lemme give you a couple of scenarios: In GoT game my mafia team has succesfully framed Mocsta and we are pushing a lynch on him. That is my game plan. My game plan does not include Mocsta quitting the game in the middle of the day phase we are supposed to lynch him because that costs my team a night of actions, which means 1.5 KP + 0.5 house KP (which will be rethought in addition to the lynch). I have to find a new town lynch, if i do not my game might fall apart if town gets their shit together, just because someone decided to quit the game. Let's say Mocsta asked an immediate replacement. Does that make things more fair/less fair for me. Impossible to say, because i was playing against Mocsta and not against whoever replaced him. His replacement might be able to convince the town they were framed, hell they might even convince the town i am scum if they are good enough interacting with other people. In Noir you asked to be replaced. I was mafia. Did i like it? Fuck no, because i was playing against DarthPunk and not against strongandbig. Did it matter? Not really, in the end. Could it have mattered? Yes, a lot. The town was in a fucking chaos because of ego battles and hotheads replacing out helped marv & yamato to get towns shit together and nearly won the game (most likely had without D2 lynch shenanigans). Did it hurt my team you replaced out? Yes it did. Did it hurt my team VE ragequitted? Yes it did, because he was a possible mislynch as we had correctly framed him. Did it hurt my team geript ragequit? Yes because he was promoting bad town atmosphere and was apossible mislynch/policy lynch/policy vigi shot. Was any of those any better/worse than others for my team, no. In Golden Sun you replaced out because you did not like being survivor. Did i like it? I didn't really give a shit because it didn't matter to me at all. But go ask WaveofShadow, did he like it? He wouldn't prolly give a shit about Noir & GoT but would like you to have a ban because he had to play survivor because someone didn't like their role. In LXI marv got modkilled for breaking the rules but his hydra partner geript was not removed from the game. Mafia did not think that affected the game at all. Town did, because by dick move analysis people considered geript confirmed town and that was literally the only reason town lost that game. The bottom line is, you can't tell which is worse than others because every situation affects differently to different people. And yes, in each scenario the rules were broken, someone quit a game because they could not handle an in game situation / follow basidc rules given by their host, whatever that was. That's why they should be equally punished. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On January 06 2014 16:56 DarthPunk wrote: Getting replaced out before the game starts should never be ban worthy and Wave did not have to replace in when he knew he would be survivor. It does not matter at all what you think but i happen to know WoS wasn't happy at all because of it. I actually requested to be a Serial Killer in Titanic II for reasons, if you can't handle playing some alignment you should request town/mafia then. When you sign up to a game you imo choose to play your role/alignment to their win condition, whatever that is. Replacing out because you didn't like what you got is not doing that. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
On January 06 2014 17:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: It does not matter at all what you think but i happen to know WoS wasn't happy at all because of it. I actually requested to be a Serial Killer in Titanic II for reasons, if you can't handle playing some alignment you should request town/mafia then. When you sign up to a game you imo choose to play your role/alignment to their win condition, whatever that is. Replacing out because you didn't like what you got is not doing that. He didn't have to replace in. And if there was no replacement I would have played the game. Getting replaced out before the game even starts literally has zero effect on the game If Wave wasn't happy about it he should not have replaced in. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On January 06 2014 17:04 DarthPunk wrote: He didn't have to replace in. And if there was no replacement I would have played the game. Getting replaced out before the game even starts literally has zero effect on the game If Wave wasn't happy about it he should not have replaced in. How can you say that? Someone might have joined that game just because they wanted to play with you. You can't possibly know how it affects people because everyone reacts differently. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
On January 06 2014 17:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: How can you say that? Someone might have joined that game just because they wanted to play with you. You can't possibly know how it affects people because everyone reacts differently. Yeah it was a mistake to ask for a replacement cause I got the worst role in the game. But it was also not ban worthy. I got a warning which is reasonable. But people should not get more than that for replacing before a game even starts. Any more than that is excessive. Replacing before a game even starts does FAR less damage to a game than a rage quit on day 3 does. Which is the crux of your argument. You think they are similar and they are not at all similar in terms of severity or impact on the game and should get punished proportionally to the impact on the game. Replacing before game start has no impact so a warning is fine. Telling the host to fuck off so that they will modkill you on day 3 is far more destructive to a game and should be a 1 game ban. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On January 06 2014 16:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well that's your opinion, and everyone has different opinions. That's the reason why it needs to be clear what you are allowed to do and what is against the rules. Lemme give you a couple of scenarios: In GoT game my mafia team has succesfully framed Mocsta and we are pushing a lynch on him. That is my game plan. My game plan does not include Mocsta quitting the game in the middle of the day phase we are supposed to lynch him because that costs my team a night of actions, which means 1.5 KP + 0.5 house KP (which will be rethought in addition to the lynch). I have to find a new town lynch, if i do not my game might fall apart if town gets their shit together, just because someone decided to quit the game. Let's say Mocsta asked an immediate replacement. Does that make things more fair/less fair for me. Impossible to say, because i was playing against Mocsta and not against whoever replaced him. His replacement might be able to convince the town they were framed, hell they might even convince the town i am scum if they are good enough interacting with other people. In Noir you asked to be replaced. I was mafia. Did i like it? Fuck no, because i was playing against DarthPunk and not against strongandbig. Did it matter? Not really, in the end. Could it have mattered? Yes, a lot. The town was in a fucking chaos because of ego battles and hotheads replacing out helped marv & yamato to get towns shit together and nearly won the game (most likely had without D2 lynch shenanigans). Did it hurt my team you replaced out? Yes it did. Did it hurt my team VE ragequitted? Yes it did, because he was a possible mislynch as we had correctly framed him. Did it hurt my team geript ragequit? Yes because he was promoting bad town atmosphere and was apossible mislynch/policy lynch/policy vigi shot. Was any of those any better/worse than others for my team, no. In Golden Sun you replaced out because you did not like being survivor. Did i like it? I didn't really give a shit because it didn't matter to me at all. But go ask WaveofShadow, did he like it? He wouldn't prolly give a shit about Noir & GoT but would like you to have a ban because he had to play survivor because someone didn't like their role. In LXI marv got modkilled for breaking the rules but his hydra partner geript was not removed from the game. Mafia did not think that affected the game at all. Town did, because by dick move analysis people considered geript confirmed town and that was literally the only reason town lost that game. The bottom line is, you can't tell which is worse than others because every situation affects differently to different people. And yes, in each scenario the rules were broken, someone quit a game because they could not handle an in game situation / follow basidc rules given by their host, whatever that was. That's why they should be equally punished. GoT: DrParnassus Afghanistan. August 28 2013 03:20. Posts 308 Gift TL+ PM Profile Quote # filter I pm'd the G-Man about Mocsta but I haven't heard back. I'm going to go ahead and request a 1 game ban for Mocsta as I'm satisfied that he won't commit the same offense again. Nothing else for GoT. The Ace modkill sucked but more and more people were blatantly disregarding the silent night and it was starting to get out of hand. By the way, thanks again to everyone who followed the rules. I'm not talking about simple mistakes such as accidentally posting, but the instances where people were knowingly breaking the rules. Mocsta ban was officially requested. Before the wipe. What's the malfunction? That it was mid-day? That's a perk of hosting, you host however you want to host. There's no rule, as far as I know, of when you can or can't modkill and flip a player. Maybe that's something you want to pursue at some point, some kind of standardization, since that seems to be the root of your complaint as far as that game is concerned. Noir read here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=20481794 golden sun On September 26 2013 07:11 ShiaoPi wrote: Bans and Warnings for Golden Sun Mafia: Requesting a Warning for DarthPunk. He was replaced out after seeing his role PM as he thought that it was impossible for him to win as a 3rd Party survivor happened before the game start and had no impact on the game, resulted in a warn | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
GoT resulted in an official action against Mocsta, for getting himself modkilled. Noir: you can see the explanation there, there is more to the story than he just got himself Golden Sun: Warn for replacing before the game started, host discretion, there was still action taken. All different situations, all treated somewhat differently. You are arguing that these all deserve to be treated the same way? That's like three different hosts, man. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
Being a mayor doesn't mean u can smoke da crack n booze it up with the ladies and receive no dmg to dat town cred. 80/20 rule in full effekt..respekt and represent. When the minority outvoice the majority and the sheep's follow thy shepherd. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10857 Posts
On January 06 2014 17:27 Mocsta wrote: Rules r da rules. Being a mayor doesn't mean u can smoke da crack n booze it up with the ladies and receive no dmg to dat town cred. 80/20 rule in full effekt..respekt and represent. When the minority outvoice the majority and the sheep's follow thy shepherd. How did you get into mocsta's account slam? | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
"Everyone starts with an A. All you gotta do is keep it." | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
Maybe people would step out of their tunnelvision if for example strongandbig had solved the Noir on N1. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
I like what u did with this thread but your approach to rayn is insulting. Specific cases don't matter here as we aren't trying to get former infractions to receive due justice. What you are doing and accomplishing is deterring any effort to mount a counter argument. We are speaking in general terms and clearly the people discussing this admit that the disparity exists. Examples are not required. Lets not dredge up the past, and instead look toward the future. | ||
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Mocsta
Australia9388 Posts
On January 06 2014 17:28 DarthPunk wrote: How did you get into mocsta's account slam? I think some1 wants to be slammed and anal-yzed deeply., simultaneously. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
Sorry if I sound or come off as disparaging or condescending or something, I am honestly not trying to and please don't take my posts that way. A little bit of silly, sometimes. | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
On January 06 2014 17:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well at least i tried. Maybe people would step out of their tunnelvision if for example strongandbig had solved the Noir on N1. I mean I guess I sort of understand this. You play against the players. When a replacement happens, it disrupts your plan because you're not playing against the SLOT. Am I getting warmer? | ||
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