EPTI understand that the posting requirement for this game is more aggressive. I understand that this game is Instant Majority Lynch. I understand that this game does not allow posting at night.
Extractor Trick Mini Mafia
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yamato77
11589 Posts
I understand that the posting requirement for this game is more aggressive. I understand that this game is Instant Majority Lynch. I understand that this game does not allow posting at night. | ||
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On January 04 2014 07:35 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: 'Slam seems pretty town to me, the lurker lynch and all. Doesn't feel like he has anybody to talk to (scum qt), wants to jump right into things. Random lynch I normally support but the whole day 2 mylo thing puts me on edge. In terms of Hopeless' alignment, I remember hopeless was scum in the last big game and did nothing, so him doing something to thrust himself outward is a sign of towniness. I have no idea why Gumshoe actually answered Rayns question, in fact why DID you ask the question, Rayn. The one about mafia talking in QT. Purpose? I kinda want to lynch you just for this post. | ||
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"But CC isn't protown as town. 100% real heuristic." | ||
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On January 04 2014 08:00 gumshoe wrote: And why do you think im scum? Your not a very impulsive player so I assume you have some thing to back up your convictions. That's not true. | ||
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On January 04 2014 08:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: Based on what? And why does it have to be between us? 1) You're being too friendly to me. 2) You're being too aggressive towards gumshoe based on a stupid question that YOU asked him. | ||
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makes more sense and is playing better than anyone in the game. Rayn - cop claim (probably town) hard to see a world where scum rayn is this active and in the spotlight, but not impossible. Now that we assume there is a vig and have a vet claim, I will have to run through the possibilities. CC - townish protown, but I have some concerns (formerly stated), now vet claims, will have to scrutinize thrawn - red voting, low activity, typical scum thrawn (skill!) hopeless - red look at filter, lynch with fire (does not change much) sent - reddish hammer on gumshoe, called me out for hilariously bad reasons, but is often weird to me coag - null ? kush - kush | ||
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On January 05 2014 04:30 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Why shouldn't the vig claim? If they blew their shot, they're essentially a VT now, right? ... | ||
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On January 05 2014 04:22 Hopeless1der wrote: Oh, complete conspiracy theory, mafia shot their own to be able to claim medic and vig for themselves. this is still a possibility, by the way. I'll be back later (in about 8 hours). DON'T LYNCH ANYONE WHILE I AM GONE. After my shift today, I am off for two days and can totally devote the time to solving this game for certain. | ||
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On January 05 2014 17:10 kushm4sta wrote: did you read the game? because sent, rayn, cc are 100% confirmed and that's not even an opinion. This is a bit silly. There's no conclusive evidence that any of their claims is 100% confirmed. Of the three, I trust CC's the most. It's believable that scum wanted to let Rayn live because of how he played D1 (or that Rayn is possibly scum) and thus shot CC, who is a better player than Slam and the second towniest player behind him. If I believe CC's claim, I kinda have to believe Sent's claim as well, considering the setup. There is a possible scenario where they are the last two mafia and intentionally did this, but I haven't enough reason to doubt my read on CC to believe in it yet. Sent seemed mafia-ish D1, but it's not enough to take a leap of faith. Rayn's claim makes no sense as any alignment, so I'm basically ignoring the fact that he claimed altogether. There is NO WAY to confirm his claim yet and NO REASON to ignore him now because of it. He led the lynch D1, and has now basically just peaced out of any responsibility for how D2 goes. It's definitely possible that he was scumbuddies with thrawn and accused him D1. That leaves Coag, you, and Hopeless as possible mafia, with AT LEAST ONE likely to be, POSSIBLY TWO, if Rayn is to be believed. The correct play would be to thus pick one of you three and lynch him, and I'm pretty sure I already said Hopeless is the scummiest. By the way, the list was MOSTLY based off reads I made during the night phase. I have only just now begun to consider the implications of the claims seriously. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 05 2014 17:12 kushm4sta wrote: yamato, reread alaka's filter and tell me about how he is the most townie player in this game Basically, he's clearer and more to the point than I've EVER SEEN him be. I trust this read quite heavily. | ||
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On January 05 2014 17:59 kushm4sta wrote: like he's being clear but not about finding scum Honestly, I came into the game expecting to not even understand him. It's enough for me that he's readable and that I can follow his thoughts. I'm not lynching him. | ||
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On January 05 2014 18:49 Hopeless1der wrote: Yamato didnt consider that scum might shoot him...where is his town ego? I'm calling shenanigans. Dudes scum. I did nothing D1 at all, basically, and have been accused of being mafia since the start of the game by multiple different people. This does not hold up under scrutiny. | ||
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On January 06 2014 03:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: We've given him way more than 8 hours He promised he would be solving this game by now? I did have to sleep last night at some point after staying up until 5AM. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 05 2014 19:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: Well you are mafia because the only post where you give any sort of reads is a post where you doubt all the players in the game. Including the blue claims, which means there must be more blues or your post is completely useless. If there are no more blues than the climed ones it cannot be possible that the claims are mafia. You are not trying to resolve this situation by asking the real blues to claim (which would solve the game since we have a mislynch), therefore your only real post in this game is completely bullshity. You, yamato, are one of the most obvious town players there is on the planet. You have opinions as town, at least when the game is on D2 and there are two flips which one of them is mafia, and night actions to analyze. The only thing you can come up with is a bullshit theory about scum shooting their own and all the blues in the game fakeclaiming with no counter claims. This is like the most obvioius mafia catch in the game. I doubted the blue claims because instantly believing claims in a semi-open setup is pretty silly. I had not yet thought about any of them seriously when I posted at the start of the day. The reads I posted then were, as I said before, formed mostly overnight during the silent phase, and done hastily mostly as my own notes. As you can see later on, I did consider the claims and came to the conclusion that of the three, I trusted you the least because of how you have been playing today and the unconfirmed nature of your claim. However, I also very clearly came to the conclusion that it wasn't worth lynching you today, rather that I should focus on the unconfirmed players. Of those four, Slam is the towniest. Other people disagree, but he is obviously trying this game and appears to be thinking things through in a clear manner. I have explained this at length, so it's not worth discussing further, we are not lynching him today. Kush is the next towniest. I had no read before today, but he's put in real effort today and actually seems to be thinking about my alignment. I don't think scum kush fights my lynch at all, let alone as hard as he has today.He simply has no reason to. Between Hopeless/Coag, Coag is actually townier, but not by much. Both of them could definitely be mafia, but I feel like lynching Hopeless more. I'll explain my Hopeless read at length later on. On January 05 2014 21:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: So this is what yamato is suggesting. There are three blue claims. Me, Mr.SexyCake, and Sentinel can't all be mafia, so there are 2 scenarios he is considering: 1) Mr.CC and Sentinel are both fake-claiming and i am telling the truth. This can't possibly be true because that would mean there would be another blue claim and they would have shot their own scumbuddy. Town mislynched on D1 so instead of trying to mislynch on D2 they are giving town a mislynch by shooting their scumbuddy and instantly losing the game if someone claims blue on D2 (if someone claims we lynch one of Sent/CC or the blue claim - if the blue claim turns up blue, scum lose). This is ridiculosu to even consider. 2) I decided to fakeclaim parity cop 1h into the game instead of just not claiming. This makes no sense given that yamato knows how confident i am at my scumplay. Let's entertain a scenario that i did something very stupid (which i would never do) as mafia. The only reason i would do that as mafia is to assume there is no parity cop in the game - because one-one trade is ridiculous in a game where i can just mislynch 2 townies and win the game. There is no counter-claim. I have gained the town credit i was looking for. Good. What's my next move. I decide to buss my teammate thrawn by asking a vigilante to shoot him on N1. I already know there is no parity cop in the game because noone counter-claimed me, so the reasonable assumption is that there is a vigilante in the game. So i made a stupid and a risky claim that could end up in a 1-1 trade, when it worked, i make a stupid move that risks my scumbuddy being shot or lynched on D2 for town-credit i have already gained from my fake claim. In addition to all this stupidness thrawn, my scumbuddy, does not give me the town credit from my fake claim (which was the point of my scumteam in the first place) but instead attacks me and we go 1vs1 with him ensuring we pretty much tunnel each other on D2 - that will most likely end up in one of us getting lynched. So me, raynpelikoneet, did this as mafia, instead of... just lynching townies and playing scum as i normally do, by controlling the thread. Ridiculous. Based purely on yamato even considering something this stupid he is mafia, 100%. I've addressed the claim situation, you're taking this a bit far. You fakeclaim often as both alignments, I do not trust you at all in any situation involving claims. On January 05 2014 22:38 Hopeless1der wrote: This post is from TL LXIII where BH tried to use an RNG lynch as his mayoral campaign. From that same game, here is yamato's reactions to NOT getting made mayor and being subsequently shot N1. hiss gg post Also, yamato's general opinion of me, again from LXIII This is thin. Many people have used my extremely good town games against me when I have a slow start. I don't always play the same and I don't always have the time to devote to being super town. I know the difference between when I've been playing well and look townie and a game like this where I am under fire most of the time. Look at D1 of Thug Life, for an example of a town game similar to this one. As for my opinion of you, yes, you are often useless, HOWEVER, you are tunneling me blindly on ridiculously thin grounds based on ONE GAME of meta. You are not this bad of a town player. Plus, as was pointed out by Kush, you were fishy with your opinion of gumshoe D1 and have also sheeped Rayn hard today in calling me mafia, which is a sharp turn away from your early posts where you say I deserve time. It just doesn't add up unless you are mafia. On January 05 2014 22:52 Hopeless1der wrote: If you have time, or happen to remember LXIII, yamato is absolutely capable of providing a compelling and eloquent argument. He has multiple large posts that arent simply a summary they are brief analyses of players that demonstrate critical thought and scrutiny. In this game, his list posts are lacking in this regard. I especially have a problem with the fact that he has a documented history of thinking I'm generally useless and has found sufficient reasoning in "my filter" to say I should be lynched with fire. As rayn already noted, Yamato has been trying to cast doubt on the blueclaims There are no counterclaims, that is evidence by itself. Unless yamato is counterclaiming (and he hasnt to my knowledge) then the simple answer is that all the night action claims are legit. Rayn's needs to be scrutinized at this point, but imo his claim also checks out. Ergo 3 confirmed town for the sake of limiting our scope of analysis unless there are counterclaims. Where does yamato fall on this list of townliness? No one else thinks its strange that he doesn't consider himself a viable shot? Especially after the points I pulled from LXIII about him knowing he was about to die before he was shot? This is unnecessary fluff rayn has covered this beautifully already here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=20533299 coag, kush, hopeless as possible mafia. convenient that slams missing. I guess he's being readable this game and the 3 of us aren't? You don't need to be scummy to be mafia in yamato's game, you just need to be lurk or troll and that is sufficient. . I had explained my read on Slam multiple times by now, so that is not a point against me. You other three are the only other players worth looking at today, and I've talked about that at length earlier in this post. Does anyone else feel the need for me to respond to anything else? If not, I'll be working through exactly why Hopeless is mafia in a subsequent post. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 06 2014 05:09 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Also: Why did your "night reads" list have thrawn as red? I don't understand why, if you were town and had a scumread on him, you wouldnt explain it during your post when day broke. You couldnt have known thrawn would die so some explanation of this read would have been necessary I did explain the read, he was low activity and Sentinel did point out the terribad vote. Classic scum thrawn. | ||
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On January 06 2014 06:22 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: My point is this is incredibly lazy for a town yamato. I would expect with 24 hours he would have come up with more than that. The whole post really seems last minute instead of thinking about it overnight. I formed them hastily at 4AM, mostly for my own notes. Is this your biggest concern or is there something more substantial I should address? | ||
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On January 06 2014 06:33 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: The fact that I know you're better than this, and you not believing the claims is retarded. Did you read my latest posts? The claims thing is not even an issue. | ||
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On January 05 2014 17:29 yamato77 wrote: This is a bit silly. There's no conclusive evidence that any of their claims is 100% confirmed. Of the three, I trust CC's the most. It's believable that scum wanted to let Rayn live because of how he played D1 (or that Rayn is possibly scum) and thus shot CC, who is a better player than Slam and the second towniest player behind him. If I believe CC's claim, I kinda have to believe Sent's claim as well, considering the setup. There is a possible scenario where they are the last two mafia and intentionally did this, but I haven't enough reason to doubt my read on CC to believe in it yet. Sent seemed mafia-ish D1, but it's not enough to take a leap of faith. Rayn's claim makes no sense as any alignment, so I'm basically ignoring the fact that he claimed altogether. There is NO WAY to confirm his claim yet and NO REASON to ignore him now because of it. He led the lynch D1, and has now basically just peaced out of any responsibility for how D2 goes. It's definitely possible that he was scumbuddies with thrawn and accused him D1. That leaves Coag, you, and Hopeless as possible mafia, with AT LEAST ONE likely to be, POSSIBLY TWO, if Rayn is to be believed. The correct play would be to thus pick one of you three and lynch him, and I'm pretty sure I already said Hopeless is the scummiest. By the way, the list was MOSTLY based off reads I made during the night phase. I have only just now begun to consider the implications of the claims seriously. | ||
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On January 06 2014 06:37 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I sheep Rayn pretty much, because he is always right. I mean just look at the last lynch, so good. Seriously, CC, if you're town, this is a stupid lynch to sheep on. What makes you think Hopeless is townier than I am? | ||
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On January 06 2014 06:42 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: from a balance perspective rayn is cop. in a game with 3 mafia, 10 town there are usually 3 blues. this game has 3 mafia and 7 town... regardless. I do like hopeless as mafia, but rayn doesnt see it. I just know it's one of you or hopeless. cus i can't see coag / kush together? Balance is a silly thing to rely on, but I will say that I haven't exactly been chomping at the bit calling rayn a liar, either. It's simply good play to not just believe claims without thinking critically about them. I don't exactly think he's lying, I just think it's better to consider him independent of his claim at the moment, which STILL puts him outside of the players I want to lynch into today. Do you disagree that Slam/Kush are townie? If so, why? In the mean time, I will explain my hopeless read at length. | ||
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On January 06 2014 06:46 kushm4sta wrote: Yamato Im still not getting why you think you can't confirm the three claims town. And that post doesn't explain it to me. Is it that you think a real PR is hiding for some reason or you didn't read the OP or what? The OP does not confirm them as town. It states clearly that there could be any number of any of the possible roles. | ||
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This is a semi-closed setup. Which roles are available will be listed, but aside from how many mafia members there are, there is no other setup information. There can be 0+ of any role. | ||
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On January 04 2014 07:15 Hopeless1der wrote: 20524821 mod10 is 1. I should have defined player 10 as 0 but that should be self-evident. 1) kushm4sta (filter) 2) alakaslam (filter) 3) Gumshoe (filter) 4) Hopeless1der (filter) 5) Raynpelikoneet (filter) 6) coagulation (filter) 7) [UoN]Sentinel (filter) 8) Yamato77 (filter) 9) thrawn2112 (filter) 10) Mr. Cheesecake (filter) Sorry kush, nothing personal. BlazingHand's rules and all ##Vote: kushm4sta (p.s. vote thread incase anyone misses it) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=439579#2 On January 04 2014 09:38 Hopeless1der wrote: no, but you did just claim cop for questionable reasons. On January 04 2014 09:54 Hopeless1der wrote: im saying gumshoe not making sense could be because hes confused, not necessarily mafia. You're totes town On January 04 2014 10:17 Hopeless1der wrote: I'll be honest, I didnt read very closely the first time around. gumshoe is a good lynch. but, BETTER THAN RNG? I DUNNO. On January 04 2014 10:32 Hopeless1der wrote: WARNING WE ARE IN HAMMER RANGE --PROCEED WITH CARE-- This sequence of posts comprises the thought process of Hopeless during the day. Do you see a reason that his vote landed on gumshoe? He goes from defending gumshoe from Rayn by saying he's "confused" to voting him as thread sentiment is moving toward lynching him, with very little justification in between. Overall, his tone day 1 is trollish and basically uncaring, which is typical of a mafia player during this period due to how far ahead they are in information. He doesn't seem to be trying to figure anything out about the game in these posts, he's just making statements and finding his way onto the gumshoe wagon. Day 2, he begins with massclaim shenanigans, which is NOT indicative of him being town. It APPEARS pro-town, but it also gives mafia the information they want: how did thrawn die, and how did our shot fail? Due to the nature of the setup, THEY DON'T KNOW at this point what happened during the night. On January 05 2014 04:20 Hopeless1der wrote: Mafia failed their KP. So, options are medic save jailer save or roleblock veteran soaked a hit In addition we have a vig shot on mafia. We should have 2, maybe 3 confirmable town based on night actions I think. Here he runs through the possibilities, and EACH ONE is important for how mafia would play out the rest of the game. If it's a medic/JK save, they shoot the person who has just been asked to claim under the pretense of being "confirmed town" for a day. If it's a roleblock, it actually confirms someone (whoever carried out the NK) as mafia. If it's a vet, they can shoot whoever they please, but probably the vet. On January 05 2014 04:31 Hopeless1der wrote: They probably should but I'd rather they/we all decide its a good idea that will have a definite benefit, instead of giving scum a place to hide or cause confusion. Notice that he's not all that interested in the vig claiming here. He's far more concerned with the UNKNOWN information to mafia aside from figuring out which player is the vig that shot thrawn. As noted later on, Hopeless understood why Sentinel shot thrawn, so he may at this point have already figured out who the vig was. Soon after, the idea of lynching me is discussed, and Hopeless says this: On January 05 2014 05:29 Hopeless1der wrote: nah yamato promises solutions, he usually delivers. otherwise we lynch him Half a day later: On January 05 2014 18:49 Hopeless1der wrote: Yamato didnt consider that scum might shoot him...where is his town ego? I'm calling shenanigans. Dudes scum. What did I post in between? My thoughts on the claim issue, in detail. Also, notably, I voted for him after picking him out as the best lynch. And this is the best reasoning he can come up with to vote me (also done as other people are accusing me [I SEE A PATTERN!] )? I didn't think mafia would NK me, therefor I am mafia? What the fuck? It's pretty fucking clear that Hopeless is mafia. | ||
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On January 06 2014 06:49 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: if you don't think he's lying then shut up about it could be a fakeclaim. It literally does nothing but make me want to lynch you. You're all retarded. You're making this a big deal. It COULD be a fakeclaim, but AT THE MOMENT, I DON'T THINK IT IS. However, I AM NOT GOING TO CONSIDER HIM CONFIRMED TOWN just because of his cop claim. I'm done talking about it, all of you have literally zero reason to call me mafia for playing the game ignorant of stupid Rayn claims. | ||
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On January 06 2014 08:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Also Rayn is really bad for saying Coag is town. He hasn't done shit this game but give a sparse and shitty list. This is true. | ||
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On January 06 2014 12:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: My claims arew never stupid and i am policy lynching you for this in addition to all scummy things. Don't be a child. Read my posts seriously. | ||
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On January 06 2014 13:28 Hopeless1der wrote: If you guys still want to lynch me, fuck it, I'll hammer myself . I meant to say "yeah Mr.Sexycake I'll gladly die to see yamato burn. You can even lynch me first!" You didn't even address my case in full, nor do I particularly care that you picked one sentence in my post to criticize. Martyring by you now is a little dramatic. | ||
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On January 05 2014 05:09 yamato77 wrote: Slam - town makes more sense and is playing better than anyone in the game. On January 05 2014 17:30 yamato77 wrote: Basically, he's clearer and more to the point than I've EVER SEEN him be. I trust this read quite heavily. On January 05 2014 18:07 yamato77 wrote: Honestly, I came into the game expecting to not even understand him. It's enough for me that he's readable and that I can follow his thoughts. I'm not lynching him. I think three is "multiple" | ||
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On January 06 2014 14:35 Alakaslam wrote: Dat first quote "Is playing better than anyone else in the game" Do you remember what that spec- ... -specifically referred to, if I may ask without looking like a narcissistic pomp? Your day 1 was: 1) Super active. 2) Had a clear push to it. The only thing I can fault you for is that you never really explained why you wanted to lynch gumshoe very well. | ||
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On January 06 2014 14:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: 1) And achieved what? 2) A stupid push on me. Who cares what anyone did on D1? If you are going to find mafia based on D1 activity the scum are you and kush. He asked a specific question about a read I made off of information from D1. This is just silly tunneling, rayn. | ||
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On January 06 2014 14:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: Let me get this straight. You have said your meta read on both of Hopeless & Alakaslam is that they are useless. On D1, both of them played exactly the same. - Slam talked about lurker lynch, Hopeless talked about random lynch. - In the end both voted for gumshoe after "soft-defending him" (if you wanna call it that). Now, how the fuck can one of them be totally town and the other one totally scum? The difference in play between Hopeless and Slam is not as small as you seem to say it is here, that's a bit of a faulty equivocation. | ||
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On January 06 2014 15:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: So can you point out what the differences are then? Because i do not see it. Also you still didn't answer, who is the other scum? Read my posts. | ||
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On January 07 2014 03:29 kushm4sta wrote: cheesecake's sig holds true imo I don't think he is mafia. I just can't rely on him to trust me, so it's harder to get anything done. | ||
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On January 07 2014 03:38 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: ofc i waver back and forth, im town and dont have information. What concerns have I not addressed? Do you really need me to name a second scum to believe my posts thus far? I Think town is ignoring a lot of good analysis in my posts in favor of silly connection theories. | ||
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On January 07 2014 03:41 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I really want to just lynch coag. I would have to read him first, but he is possible as second mafia. | ||
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On January 07 2014 04:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: The fact is Hopeless cannot be scum because everyone who is not confirmed thinks he is mafia and it does not make any sense. I suggest you find real scum if you are town. Or someone is bussing. Definitely a possibility. | ||
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Yeah, that's a good heuristic. Like I said before, Sentinel is basically only confirmed because I believe CC is town and telling the truth. | ||
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On January 07 2014 04:46 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Yamato, why is sentinel ONLY confirmed because you believe me? A fucking mafia died. Vig. Like I said, you could both be lying and be mafia who planned a shot on thrawn. It's unlikely, but POSSIBLE. | ||
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On January 07 2014 04:50 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: No it's not. There are no CC's, and that would leave town with only 1 blue. CCs are not a great way to verify claims, IMO, but this discussion is pointless. I don't like how Sentinel is playing, he's accused me badly, but I'm ignoring it because I don't have any strong reason to doubt his claim. End of story. | ||
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On January 07 2014 04:54 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: You don't think he is mafia yet are casting his argument aside because he is "only confirmed because of this". No, because the timing of big posts is not any indication of my alignment. It's a terrible heuristic. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 07 2014 03:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: yamato you haven't followed up with any question you have ever asked from anyone in this game. You are not even interested in the answers. Also you were really demoralized when thrawn flipped. When a vigilante shoots scum on N1 townies usually go "yay, good job!", not like you did "god i hate claim games". What questions have I asked that I have not followed up on? How was I demoralized when thrawn flipped? THE FIRST POST I MADE SAID I WAS GLAD I WAS RIGHT ABOUT HIM! I do hate claim games, for the record. In forum mafia, these situations lead to really narrow reasoning and almost always devolve the game as they have done to this one into trying to pick two mafia from a small group of players. On January 07 2014 03:53 raynpelikoneet wrote: yamato is the most fucking obvious town player when he is town. Either he does not give a shit about the game to notice simple things like you + Sentinel having to be town after N1 or he is scum. He is scum. You have read nothing I've posted on the claim matter if you are still talking about this. READ MY POSTS. On January 07 2014 03:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: - Then he does not notice Coagulation's inconsistancies after he himself asked about them from Coag. - Then he does not call kush out for kush's bullshit reads which i have pointed out. - Then he calls Hopeless mafia and Alakaslam town because both are usually useless and both did exactly same shit on D1. 1) I don't remember asking Coag anything. 2) I don't think kush's reads are bullshit. Me disagreeing with you does not make me mafia. 3) Hopeless and Slam ARE NOT THE SAME! Look at the case I made on Hopeless where I summarize his D1 and compare those posts to these: On January 04 2014 08:27 Alakaslam wrote: Ok everything essentially just became a food fight from my perspective. At first I was thinking Rayne and Gumshoe scum, because seeing the layout concerns Rayne pointed out coupled with gumeshoe's post implying what I am doing is usually seen as scummy in reply to him, it looked like something to be able to lynch LHF with no recompense. Then, after they talk a bit, I see Rayne going after gumshoe for said post and I'm like "well they certainly aren't scum together" and then Yamato77 wildly says between them he would go after Rayne! Then gumshoe explains himself to Rayne and it makes sense- my how my reads fly -_- This makes me ask, what are people's thoughts about hopeless and I rng'ing Kush? He has said nothing, and we are what, a couple hours into the game? I mean seriously, are we wrong/scummy or vote with us? Or what in between? On January 04 2014 08:50 Alakaslam wrote: K look there are huge problems with this, I could actually totes lynch you with Yamato on this alone. If you are actually blue you just gave up that power's usefulness and if you are scum, the real cop can't counterclaim you without outing himself to you. Most will know this and therefore that it is essentially WIFOM, also I think YOU know better enough to know all that. On January 04 2014 09:03 Alakaslam wrote: Dude. I mean yes I could see how the role is pretty useless then and probably not worth scum's time to fish out. But if you are scum? You just gave yourself the key to ultimate Svengali play, and a free day worth of survival if not more assuming you are believed! It doesn't accomplish the trust you need man, it makes stuff worse. But really, it would be super ballsy scum play. Counterclaiming would decrease chances of a mislynch to 50%! On January 04 2014 09:10 Alakaslam wrote: yeah, this is why I'm lynching you. You are refusing to see what I'm saying. You are scum because you are 1: Blue Hunting 2: Fakeclaiming 3: bullying anyone who opposes you and using it as grounds to mislynch On January 04 2014 09:15 Alakaslam wrote: Nice discredit explain? How on earth I what you are doing any better than the biggest WIFOM bomb I have ever seen plus a ton of Svengali? Why on earth should town believe your claim even if the parity cop role is so useless? I will even answer that- because it wouldn't be worth the risk to make suh a fakeclaim as scum. But the problem with that is it is like combining a bus with blue hunting, and you can count on town arriving at that same conclusion anyway! WIFOM is the greatest scum strategy IMO. On January 04 2014 11:24 Alakaslam wrote: These, plus looking at setup as scum would see it (losing one scum today versus a mislynch makes the game a lot harder for them) make me think if there is a cop, should counter claim, and Rayne probably confirmed town versus otherwise. Another reason I think so now is I was literally going through why I thought an early claim like that is so bad as either alignment that coming from Rayne it just reeks of scum, and he thought I was being wishy-washy and almost like he couldn't conceive how it was scummy- which I took as even scummier, but a look back, as town he would say the same stuff- you do something SPECIFICALLY to get people to work with you and first thing, this guy comes up and calls it WIFOM over and over and scummy, and you know in the setup scum don't do that etc. etc. Unvoting. Slam looks like he's actually trying to figure out people's alignment, and Hopeless just looks like he's trying to figure out where to place his vote. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 07 2014 04:55 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Kind of like me being pro-town means me as mafia? Because that was totally a town-aligned way of gunning for me. It was early, and I wanted to see how you'd respond. Notice how I immediately stop arguing the point? I liked your response. It's how good town players play the early game. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 07 2014 05:00 Hopeless1der wrote: its not the timing, its the content. your big posts didnt attempt to solve anything in the game or layout a gameplan for going forward. your list post was a joke. your case on me is of a similar caliber to mine on you, except there is no precedent for why I'm scummy in the context of your case. You list off some marginally scummy things that in the context of day1 are not good enough to tout me as omfg scum must lynch nao. The list post was hastily made during the night mostly as a way for me to summarize my feelings about D1 and start D2 with some footing in the game. It was not meant as some exposition of my thoughts on the game. My case on you encompasses YOUR ACTUAL PLAY THIS GAME, instead of trying to say that I should play EXACTLY how I played in LXIII or I'm mafia. The two are incomparable. I also quote your play D2 and state that this flimsy logic is indicative of you being mafia. You're not even reading the case. I also sorted out my thoughts on the claim situation, and have addressed every accusation leveled against me in the game. My big posts are clear, and consistent. It has nothing to do with meta, and everything to do with being town trying to figure the fucking game out. Do you think I, as mafia, come into D2 trying to doubt confirmed town? No, I already know the claims are true because I KNOW MAFIA'S NIGHT ACTIONS. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
This filter destroys any argument about me always being obvious townie with multiple big posts D1. I got lynched D1 this game. Stop using it as a reason to call me mafia, it is not valid whatsoever. | ||
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yamato77
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No, that would just make me wrong. I've been wrong as town before. If I'm wrong about you, let's talk about the other three unconfirmed players, because no matter what, ONE OF THEM is mafia. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 07 2014 06:11 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: This. I don't believe I made it clear enough in the original accusation - they were big posts that pretty much told town "here's what we need to focus on", explicitly asked people questions so that they would put out their thoughts for everyone to see, and pretty much removed any confusion by whatever way. That commanding stance is what makes it so scary to play against yam as scum - you have to play by his rules or else he'll put you under heavy pressure. As evidenced by Hopeless's post as well as the quoted material, yamato's case isn't flawless, it's made while he's under pressure instead of the other way around. The instances he did mention slam are short. Simply, "he's clear", "he's clearer than I've ever seen him play", "I can actually understand him". It's not much. He was pretty coherent in Titanic II as well, less so because he spent the game talking to Chezinu in a QT. I can understand yam's tunneling of Hopeless because he does that all the time. But faulty logic/reasoning is inexcusable for him. I DON'T ALWAYS PLAY THAT WAY AS TOWN END OF ARGUMENT | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 07 2014 06:12 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: yam why do you not think kush's reads are bullshit? Mostly because it looks like there's uncertainty in them, which I think is a townie trait. Too much certainty = scum kush. He might be WRONG, but that doesn't mean that it's BULLSHIT. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 07 2014 06:13 kushm4sta wrote: i know where you are going yamato and I am there already. Coag/alaka. Reread alaka. It could be them. I would be depressed if I had Slam/Hopeless backwards though. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 07 2014 06:17 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Wrong can be scummy too, especially in his big post. I refuse to believe Kush would try to read everyone, label everyone as scum (except for you for the shoddiest reasoning ever, and because he ran out of red labels), and decide to keep that post in there to clog up the thread and influence his subsequent reads. The big post is not the only post he's made this game, you know. | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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On January 07 2014 06:39 Coagulation wrote: well I can add as a follow up to that fos alaska slam responded with a "would you rather me troll??" wich is probably the most scummiest response he could of come up with. its loosely translated to something like. "hey guys I know I cant scum hunt properly cause im scum but I could of just taken a giant shit in thread instead of being useless so I should be given a free pass for being useless" I dont think thats a town mentality at all. Except he obviously isn't just lurker hunting. I quoted a bunch of posts where he did anything but that. You're actually the one doing almost no scum hunting. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 07 2014 06:41 kushm4sta wrote: You literally have the worst understanding of mechanics I've ever seen. 3 + 2 = 5, which is a hammer Unless you seem to think that scum don't want to hammer or whatever. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 07 2014 06:59 kushm4sta wrote: if coag and alaka both insta voted you, you think that would be a good scumplay? It wouldn't have been an insta-hammer, I've been at 3 votes for a long time now. They could have worked toward it. Regardless, it doesn't mean they aren't mafia, it just means that they missed their chance. | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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On January 07 2014 07:36 Hopeless1der wrote: My original accusation (yamato =\= a viable nk target) has not been sufficiently resolved. I refuse to believe that a player who ran for mayor and almost won in a large game would come to a mini and legitimately be scared that scum would find it easier to push his mislynch than to shoot him. THIS DAY PROVES MY POINT Jesus. It's not even an argument. People ACTUALLY THINK I'm mafia. Why would scum NK me? | ||
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yamato77
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If so, why? | ||
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yamato77
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On January 07 2014 07:59 Hopeless1der wrote: You made the post I'm referring to before anyone really thought you were scum. I'd also like to point out that I was the first one to cast any real doubt on Yamato since his large 'catchup post'. Rayn actually fleshed out the arguments, but like I also mentioned I happened to wake up at 5am, skimmed the thread, posted, then went back to sleep. So for anyone pulling the 'oh hopeless is just sheeping rayn', no I'm not. I was accused day 1 and barely played at all because of how short it was. THERE IS NO GOOD REASON FOR SCUM TO NK ME. If you are town and that is your best argument, I am depressed. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 07 2014 08:02 Hopeless1der wrote: accused by who and in what capacity? Were you up for lynch? I dont think anyone was a good mislynch target going into day 2 except perhaps me. People called me scum the whole day basically. Read the game. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 07 2014 08:07 Hopeless1der wrote: So why didnt you even make a cursory mention of the fact that scum didnt want to shoot you because players x,y,z might be convinced to lynch you? Because I wasn't talking about the NK, I was talking about how believable CC's claim was, which HAPPENED to include HIS viability as an NK choice in it. It had nothing to do with me. | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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CC, do you agree with me that Slam/Kush seem town? | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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yamato77
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yamato77
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yamato77
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On January 07 2014 12:33 Hopeless1der wrote: admit you were wrong and/or hammer yourself he fakeclaims a lot, it's a dumb argument. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 07 2014 12:35 raynpelikoneet wrote: No it's not. Why the fuck would you make fucking incorrect statements as town?! There is not a single reason you should be incorrectly discrediting me. None. If you can give me a good reason why you intentionally lied then we can talk about something else. There is absolutely no reason to do so, fucking confirmed mafia thrawn did the same shit and it outed him to me. I did not intentionally lie. You fakeclaim often. End of story. | ||
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yamato77
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I meant jointly. Not independently as either alignment. | ||
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yamato77
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On January 07 2014 06:10 yamato77 wrote: No, that would just make me wrong. I've been wrong as town before. If I'm wrong about you, let's talk about the other three unconfirmed players, because no matter what, ONE OF THEM is mafia. | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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yamato77
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On January 07 2014 13:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because let's assume yamato is town. Town has mislynched on D1. There is no reason to assume Cheesecake is blue (or is there?). Cheesecake has no read on thrawn. Cheesecake thinks yamato is mafia, he is his top scumread. This would imply Cheesecake is on the wrong track, hell he can be even blamed on D2 for hammering gumshoe. So again, if you think yamato is town, why did mafia shoot a person who was on a wrong track on D1 and did not have a scumread on the flipped scum? Why did mafia let yamato - a possible town leader - alive on N1? If this is in fact the case and this is WIFOM, why is mafia not bringing this up to mislynch yamato? This is a reasonable assumption, why is mafia not using that as their advantage if yamato is town. Just for the record, Hopeless has used this logic multiple times now. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 07 2014 13:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't think it's necessarily fault logic but it's no use of discussing it with you as you'll obviously disagree. I wanna know what kush, coag and slam think about this. Well you asked "Why is mafia not bringing this up?" And Hopeless is, so... | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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yamato77
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On January 07 2014 16:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why do you post shit like this instead of something useful? I've posted plenty of useful things. Do your own scumhunting instead of badgering other people to do it for you. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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yamato77
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yamato77
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On January 09 2014 04:04 Hopeless1der wrote: and I played better than you yamato. what does that tell you? no you didn't no town player read anything I posted or they would have stopped calling me mafia for "not doing anything" I had 5.5 pages of filter for D2 alone. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 09 2014 04:07 raynpelikoneet wrote: Based on D2 kush was the most obvious mafia i have ever seen in a game. Sentinel why the fuck did you vote for yamato on D2 - i specifically wanted all of those people to contribute? Because he wasn't reading. You were the only one that even half read my posts out of all the town players. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 09 2014 04:41 Hopeless1der wrote: well the problem there is that in general slam and kush are notoriously unreadable and yamato is not. The fact that I couldnt get a stable town read on yamato was enough to say he must be scum. Perhaps the fact he had me as scum was a factor, but enough other players agreed he looked scummy. No it's not. This is horrid. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 09 2014 04:43 marvellosity wrote: Thank you for posting, it reminded me - it was actually his read on you that I found really sub-par, because from what I know of you I thought you looked quite obviously town in this game, and I couldn't understand how yamato was crusading for your lynch. yamato lynch kinda makes more sense in that light, I forgot about that. I tried to reconsider, but he refused and continued tunneling me for no reason whatsoever so I went on tilt and stopped trying. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 09 2014 05:14 marvellosity wrote: Kinda dreading playing again, so many of the games atm are weird to me :d I agree, I wish I hadn't signed up. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 09 2014 05:21 Hopeless1der wrote: He can rage all he wants but I think if yamato had not gone on tilt and actually played to his best, scumteam would have been crushed. From a pure setup speculation I'd call this game town favored and with the rolls on roles even more so. Well, it's your fault for refusing to reconsider your position on me whatsoever and ignoring the other 3 unconfirmed players in the game entirely. At least I had reads on them. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 09 2014 05:30 Hopeless1der wrote: Yes. Let it be known that hopeless1der was solely responsible for getting yamato lynched. No other player had any say in the matter nor could they or yamato himself have affected the outcome in any way. All bow to the hopeless one. I literally argued down every point someone made against me but you ignored my posts and kept repeating the same shit. After a while I just stop trying. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On January 09 2014 05:43 yamato77 wrote: I literally argued down every point someone made against me but you ignored my posts and kept repeating the same shit. After a while I just stop trying. To add to this, one argument I remember in specific was the stupid "town yamato would have considered himself a possible NK" thing. Really, you need to evaluate the reasons you were calling me mafia. They were bad. | ||
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