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Also we probably need some other people to pull some weight here.
Prome I'm looking at you.
Ill be back and active in about 3h for the rest of the day and then evening.
My hope is that we can figure this shit out before tomorrow because I won't be around like...at all tomorrow until after lynch.
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On January 28 2014 00:06 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 09:45 Foolishness wrote:Gonzaw I'm not answering or responding to anything you say until you answer my question to you: On January 26 2014 08:56 Foolishness wrote:
Question for you now: this isn't the first time I've explained something and you said you were "not convinced". Furthermore, when I bring up facts and thoughts about the game thus far you seem to ask questions about other related things instead of bringing up my points directly and either refuting them or disagreeing with them. This tells me that you are actually in agreement with a lot of things that I'm saying and are just trying to look for things about me that may or may not be there. Are you so concerned about the slim chance of me being mafia that you are willing to sacrifice the good of the town just to make sure? Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 09:47 Foolishness wrote:
And I'd suggest you answer that question very carefully. Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 10:01 Foolishness wrote:On January 26 2014 09:58 gonzaw wrote:
1)Show me which times I was "not convinced" about direct stuff that I apparently agreed on
2)Just because you make sense on somethings it doesn't mean you are town (for instance the "vote analysis"). Oops! Wrong answer. This is even wonkier though, seems like Fool is threatening gonzaw, or gonzaw is suspicious, or something? But then immediately following these posts Fool is treating gonzaw as town again. What do you make of this Wave? (or anyone about who cares to read) None of Fool's recent posting reads like it comes from a townie, from his intransigence on the Wave read (along with the rationale), to the being ok but not ok but ok with the VE lynch, to being sure about Wave but saying he might be wrong, to the weird threats to gonzaw. I am frowning.
I've mentioned this in talking about Fool before.
The bullying Foolishness has been doing---is that typical of him? Because on its own that's incredibly anti-town, whatever his reasoning (I'm trying to my own thing/what's best for town and you're messing with me etc).
As far as his utter confidence in the read of me, again it's the fact that he has held a tenacious grasp on that read when he didn't bother considering my D2 work more so than his willingness to drop it before the lynch imo, though I agree it looks fishy.
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Let us talk about Toad for a sec.
On January 28 2014 01:33 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 00:56 marvellosity wrote:
Fool+Toad is where i'm sitting. Not 100% confident in either so maybe trying to eliminate outliers will help... namely you.
I think that's the most likely pair right now, but there is some degree of distancing between the two. Toad is attacking Foolishness, while Foolishness wants to bring Toad to lylo. I'll need to see if it seems likely that Toad is pushing the Foolishness lynch with the hopes of winning a 2v1 endgame, if he is town and has a legitimate scum read on Fool, or if he is mafia with another player that we're overlooking. At one point foolishness argues that we shouldn't consider lynching sandroba, while Holy is still around. Do you think it makes sense to attack one inactive scum buddy, while defending the other, which could be a risk if the wrong one flips first? Or is it more likely that he simply doesn't see Holy flipping that cycle after the replacement has been announced so he feels safe doing so? Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 07:39 Toadesstern wrote:
I'm kind of busy right now and only f5'in inbetween. I've told you guys to get on Foo, I told you multiple times so far and it's been ignored. I don't have the time to make a case right now.
I DO think Foolishness is the way better lynch though and I DO think that reading VE tomorrow will be easier than today. I think this post actually makes a Toad + Foolishness pair more likely. A lot of the time when you see a bus, you'll hear a mafia player say something along of lines of "I've told you guys, but you didn't listen" when the town alternative is about to flip. It could be a case of Toad knowing more than he should, since I think it definitely makes more sense to think that reading Foolishness the next day would be easier than reading the player that got frustrated with the thread and voted himself.
This kind of post is what makes me think kita is town (along with that one I mentioned earlier, the long one). How easy is a post like this to make when he's talking about theoretical mafia POV? From a town perspective it sounds like a completely realistic mafia perspective but so much that it sounds fishy. Am I explaining this right? Essentially it truly sounds as though this is town trying to explain things from mafia POV rather than mafia explaining mafia POV.
A lot of Toad's posts around that point (which I mentioned and Toad and I argued about briefly) just reek
On January 26 2014 03:21 Toadesstern wrote:
See I don't even mind that WoS vote but I really think Foolishness is the much better option today. The guy makes sense whenever he posts but as soon as he comes to some conclusion Sandro bad lynch despite having Sandro in his scumreads earlier on / WoS + Toad scumteam despite me voting WoS at that time and still harboring fuzzy feelings for him (not in a romantic way) it just goes batshit crazy.
He doesn't even feel the need to explain his mafiareads and instead writes wall of texts about his relationship with prome.
Like I said, I don't mind that WoS vote one bit but do you really think he's a better lynch than foolishness?
All it looked like around this point in the day was him trying to get himself out of the 'strong scumread' on me based on his horrible case on post earlier.
He tries to defend/explain himself here, but it just doesn't jive with me
On January 26 2014 04:35 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2014 04:29 WaveofShadow wrote:On January 26 2014 04:26 VisceraEyes wrote:On January 26 2014 04:24 WaveofShadow wrote:
Ok a few thigns:
VE wtf was that vote on me? I don;t even understand your reasoning for it. Because I think you're town and no one else does? Is that it?
As far as marv;s argument, the problem is not only would you be comparing mafia to town mindset, you also have to remember that VE and I are two different people. My motivation has been ridiculously on this game not only because I'm not and want to win, but because of the game itself. Marv you remember me asking you pre-game if I should even play in this game? Part of my motivation this game is to show myself (and others) that I deserve to be in here. In any other game I highly doubt I would be spending such a great deal of the free time I barely have to post in massive bursts. VE may not be similarly motivated as town (or obviously as scum).
Now as for Foolishness, call me dumb but I'm starting to worry about how quickly it's being picked up. Especially by people like Toad. And even then if I'm right and Foolishness truly is mafia, is everybody going to be bamboozled by him again when he comes back with an hour to go and posts a flashy essay? It was that and the fact that Hapa suspected you and died - but gonzaw pointed out that he posted his suspicion AFTER the scum had made their shot, so it comes back to the "he's the only one who's right about me" which is NOT a strong enough point to lynch imo. It'd be pretty ballsy (if I'm right about you) as scum to be the only one. Hapa's suspicion is a stronger point if anything and I'll grant you that, but surprisingly nobody brought it up. And his case on me was vastly different than anyone else's I believe---I think it actually wasn't terrible. So, is Toad's voteswitch authentic or is he trying to jump off a losing train early and trying to gain some towncred on a bus? Show nested quote +On January 24 2014 08:13 Toadesstern wrote:On January 24 2014 08:07 Promethelax wrote:
So hapa has
WoS
VE
Holy
Fool
as scummy. I was hoping he had a clear target before the resolution deadline that would have suggested that he was killed to push a single lynch.
In terms of history: marv or I are the most likely to kill Hapa as scum n1 I think. I actually disagree. Quick check through his filter, ignoring his last post because it was before deadline, will show up WoS a lot more than anyone else, especially if you compare it to VE who would be the one to show up more in Gonzaw's filter. So as I'm still going with the WoS and VE both look really bad, especially given that they both equally failed to do anything d1 deadline ( clicky! here to see why that's an issue I'd lean on WoS even more now. ##vote WoS you're welcome. Also wtf is that kind of a question. I'm getting cold feet here as I'm seeing you and VE on the same guy I want lynched and you have the balls to call Foolishness 100% mafia and say it's either a bus from me or a townie being right? Sure I think Foolishness is the best lynch but I wouldn't have the balls to call it that 100% certain oO Also when I voted foolish it was 2-2-2 in votes. I might be called the reason you're "wagon" is losing steam, again you're welcome
Like all of Toad's activity since that point feels like subtle buddying/apologizing to me for earlier D2 to get me off of him, and it actually kind of worked for a while.
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lol and of course trying to get cred for my wagon 'losing steam,' but I've already argued that with him.
Like, I can clearly outline a mafia thought process and agenda from within Toad's posting and how it's evolved over the game, but then of course we run into the 'who's his partner/who's he bussing' kinda problem, so marv, as you mentioned earlier we may just have to drop trying to come up with partners and lynch the scummiest.
Assuming Fool doesn't come back (which is probably a bad assumption considering his play so far---always coming back or leaving exactly when it's perfect for him) I'd still go Fool--->Toad. And where the shit is Prome it's really really bad that he's not here. Mebbe a case of 'welp, confirmed town so I don't need to do shit anymore?' Doesn't seem like Prome to me. I really haven't been impressed with his play this game and I kind of hate the fact that we're semi-forced to ignore him as a suspect above all of the way scummier people.
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Oh really Toad?
'Cause as i remember it, I was the one who recognized my own state and chose to take a break from the thread.
On January 25 2014 07:53 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 25 2014 07:50 marvellosity wrote:
honestly wave, gonzaw's case boils down to simply that central point. an I want to put serious though into it when I'm not on my phone. I'm not being useful right now, just flinging shit at toad so ill bbl
So that certainly doesn't explain your change of route.
Not to mention the fact that I was pissed off at your case because of how terrible and obviously so it was.
You're saying you opted not to keep pressure on me because of my emotional state? Would you have continued with the arguments you were pushing if I didn't yell at you, Toad?
I'm pretty calm right now, would you like to continue to 'pressure' me about something?
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On January 28 2014 03:37 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 03:18 WaveofShadow wrote:Let us talk about Toad for a sec. On January 28 2014 01:33 kitaman27 wrote:On January 28 2014 00:56 marvellosity wrote:
Fool+Toad is where i'm sitting. Not 100% confident in either so maybe trying to eliminate outliers will help... namely you.
I think that's the most likely pair right now, but there is some degree of distancing between the two. Toad is attacking Foolishness, while Foolishness wants to bring Toad to lylo. I'll need to see if it seems likely that Toad is pushing the Foolishness lynch with the hopes of winning a 2v1 endgame, if he is town and has a legitimate scum read on Fool, or if he is mafia with another player that we're overlooking. At one point foolishness argues that we shouldn't consider lynching sandroba, while Holy is still around. Do you think it makes sense to attack one inactive scum buddy, while defending the other, which could be a risk if the wrong one flips first? Or is it more likely that he simply doesn't see Holy flipping that cycle after the replacement has been announced so he feels safe doing so? On January 26 2014 07:39 Toadesstern wrote:
I'm kind of busy right now and only f5'in inbetween. I've told you guys to get on Foo, I told you multiple times so far and it's been ignored. I don't have the time to make a case right now.
I DO think Foolishness is the way better lynch though and I DO think that reading VE tomorrow will be easier than today. I think this post actually makes a Toad + Foolishness pair more likely. A lot of the time when you see a bus, you'll hear a mafia player say something along of lines of "I've told you guys, but you didn't listen" when the town alternative is about to flip. It could be a case of Toad knowing more than he should, since I think it definitely makes more sense to think that reading Foolishness the next day would be easier than reading the player that got frustrated with the thread and voted himself. This kind of post is what makes me think kita is town (along with that one I mentioned earlier, the long one). How easy is a post like this to make when he's talking about theoretical mafia POV? From a town perspective it sounds like a completely realistic mafia perspective but so much that it sounds fishy. Am I explaining this right? Essentially it truly sounds as though this is town trying to explain things from mafia POV rather than mafia explaining mafia POV. A lot of Toad's posts around that point (which I mentioned and Toad and I argued about briefly) just reekOn January 26 2014 03:21 Toadesstern wrote:
See I don't even mind that WoS vote but I really think Foolishness is the much better option today. The guy makes sense whenever he posts but as soon as he comes to some conclusion Sandro bad lynch despite having Sandro in his scumreads earlier on / WoS + Toad scumteam despite me voting WoS at that time and still harboring fuzzy feelings for him (not in a romantic way) it just goes batshit crazy.
He doesn't even feel the need to explain his mafiareads and instead writes wall of texts about his relationship with prome.
Like I said, I don't mind that WoS vote one bit but do you really think he's a better lynch than foolishness? All it looked like around this point in the day was him trying to get himself out of the 'strong scumread' on me based on his horrible case on post earlier. He tries to defend/explain himself here, but it just doesn't jive with me On January 26 2014 04:35 Toadesstern wrote:On January 26 2014 04:29 WaveofShadow wrote:On January 26 2014 04:26 VisceraEyes wrote:On January 26 2014 04:24 WaveofShadow wrote:
Ok a few thigns:
VE wtf was that vote on me? I don;t even understand your reasoning for it. Because I think you're town and no one else does? Is that it?
As far as marv;s argument, the problem is not only would you be comparing mafia to town mindset, you also have to remember that VE and I are two different people. My motivation has been ridiculously on this game not only because I'm not and want to win, but because of the game itself. Marv you remember me asking you pre-game if I should even play in this game? Part of my motivation this game is to show myself (and others) that I deserve to be in here. In any other game I highly doubt I would be spending such a great deal of the free time I barely have to post in massive bursts. VE may not be similarly motivated as town (or obviously as scum).
Now as for Foolishness, call me dumb but I'm starting to worry about how quickly it's being picked up. Especially by people like Toad. And even then if I'm right and Foolishness truly is mafia, is everybody going to be bamboozled by him again when he comes back with an hour to go and posts a flashy essay? It was that and the fact that Hapa suspected you and died - but gonzaw pointed out that he posted his suspicion AFTER the scum had made their shot, so it comes back to the "he's the only one who's right about me" which is NOT a strong enough point to lynch imo. It'd be pretty ballsy (if I'm right about you) as scum to be the only one. Hapa's suspicion is a stronger point if anything and I'll grant you that, but surprisingly nobody brought it up. And his case on me was vastly different than anyone else's I believe---I think it actually wasn't terrible. So, is Toad's voteswitch authentic or is he trying to jump off a losing train early and trying to gain some towncred on a bus? On January 24 2014 08:13 Toadesstern wrote:On January 24 2014 08:07 Promethelax wrote:
So hapa has
WoS
VE
Holy
Fool
as scummy. I was hoping he had a clear target before the resolution deadline that would have suggested that he was killed to push a single lynch.
In terms of history: marv or I are the most likely to kill Hapa as scum n1 I think. I actually disagree. Quick check through his filter, ignoring his last post because it was before deadline, will show up WoS a lot more than anyone else, especially if you compare it to VE who would be the one to show up more in Gonzaw's filter. So as I'm still going with the WoS and VE both look really bad, especially given that they both equally failed to do anything d1 deadline ( clicky! here to see why that's an issue I'd lean on WoS even more now. ##vote WoS you're welcome. Also wtf is that kind of a question. I'm getting cold feet here as I'm seeing you and VE on the same guy I want lynched and you have the balls to call Foolishness 100% mafia and say it's either a bus from me or a townie being right? Sure I think Foolishness is the best lynch but I wouldn't have the balls to call it that 100% certain oO Also when I voted foolish it was 2-2-2 in votes. I might be called the reason you're "wagon" is losing steam, again you're welcome Like all of Toad's activity since that point feels like subtle buddying/apologizing to me for earlier D2 to get me off of him, and it actually kind of worked for a while. yes I've been trying to be nice to you and you can call that buddying, but it's obviously a gross misrepresentation given that I still think you're scummy and still don't understand why Gonzaw thought you're town. You seem to be conveniently forgetting that part when talking about how I'm "buddying" you. Do me a favor and don't just read my filter, open those posts and look at those posts in context, especially read your own posts as well to get an idea. You were emotional, I tried to talk to you, you got super angry for no reason, you got pissed for no reason and you've been screaming and kicking in the thread whenever someone mentioned your name without praising you. I'm certaintly not buddying you, I'm ignoring you while you're impossible to talk to, may that be because you're faking emotions or because you're actually emotional. There was literally no point in talking to you so I stopped the hardcourse and instead tried a more relaxed approach to figure out if you'd still keep on doing that or if you'd chill down. If you look at my posts you'll find the exact same approach everytime someone posts emotional for an extended period, in this game for example VE. People are different and telling someone who's clearly screaming like a 5 year old to cool down while keeping pressure on them might be something gonzaw likes as an approach and it may work on a select few people but I think it's usually pointless. So yes I've been posting nicer when talking with you but I certainly wasn't buddying you.
Gonzaw explained pretty damn clearly why he thought I was town, whether you believe it or not is another thing. Apparently you still think I'm scummy despite your change of direction and attack on Foolishness (which was in itself a soft defense of me at the time given what the thread was up to)?
Go on, Toad, let's hear what still makes me scummy. I'm all ears.
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On January 28 2014 03:57 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 03:46 WaveofShadow wrote:Oh really Toad? 'Cause as i remember it, I was the one who recognized my own state and chose to take a break from the thread. On January 25 2014 07:53 WaveofShadow wrote:On January 25 2014 07:50 marvellosity wrote:
honestly wave, gonzaw's case boils down to simply that central point. an I want to put serious though into it when I'm not on my phone. I'm not being useful right now, just flinging shit at toad so ill bbl So that certainly doesn't explain your change of route. Not to mention the fact that I was pissed off at your case because of how terrible and obviously so it was. You're saying you opted not to keep pressure on me because of my emotional state? Would you have continued with the arguments you were pushing if I didn't yell at you, Toad? I'm pretty calm right now, would you like to continue to 'pressure' me about something? and you'll realize that I started posting nice with you a lot sooner than that, but I'm sure you're aware of that as well. You even just admitted that you were pissed and yelling at me. Yes I don't talk with people who are yelling at me, remember rayn? Yes you do but you obviously don't seem to remember for whatever convenient reason right now. Yes probably. Most likely not with you but with other people but you kept derailing the thread whenever I mentioned your name so I stopped it. No, I still have to figure out if I'm wrong about you or Foolishness first or if Kita is the one being town and I don't see a lot of reason to talk about you with you. You say you calmed down but you don't seem to realize the way you're posting right now. Crazy conspiracy, tunnely without a reason, still emotional inbetween as can be seen in the above post and the first 2 can either be contributed to a scum plan or to actual emotions. I'd be willing to talk with other people about you
For fuck sakes I just deleted my post. let's try again.
What?
Crazy consipracy?
How is a scumread on you a crazy conspiracy? And how am i tunneling you without reason? I have offered plenty of reason. I defy anyone else in this thread to look at what I've written about you and say it doesn't at the very least appear true.
As far as emotional goes, there's a difference between the emotional and the tone I'm using right now. it's called accusatory, and considering I believe yo to be scum, I think it's pretty appropriate. All this post looks like is you trying to opt out of conversation with me, kinda like Foolishness. If you believe Foolishness to be scum and you're doing the same thing he is...well.....
On January 28 2014 04:06 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 03:50 WaveofShadow wrote:On January 28 2014 03:37 Toadesstern wrote:On January 28 2014 03:18 WaveofShadow wrote:Let us talk about Toad for a sec. On January 28 2014 01:33 kitaman27 wrote:On January 28 2014 00:56 marvellosity wrote:
Fool+Toad is where i'm sitting. Not 100% confident in either so maybe trying to eliminate outliers will help... namely you.
I think that's the most likely pair right now, but there is some degree of distancing between the two. Toad is attacking Foolishness, while Foolishness wants to bring Toad to lylo. I'll need to see if it seems likely that Toad is pushing the Foolishness lynch with the hopes of winning a 2v1 endgame, if he is town and has a legitimate scum read on Fool, or if he is mafia with another player that we're overlooking. At one point foolishness argues that we shouldn't consider lynching sandroba, while Holy is still around. Do you think it makes sense to attack one inactive scum buddy, while defending the other, which could be a risk if the wrong one flips first? Or is it more likely that he simply doesn't see Holy flipping that cycle after the replacement has been announced so he feels safe doing so? On January 26 2014 07:39 Toadesstern wrote:
I'm kind of busy right now and only f5'in inbetween. I've told you guys to get on Foo, I told you multiple times so far and it's been ignored. I don't have the time to make a case right now.
I DO think Foolishness is the way better lynch though and I DO think that reading VE tomorrow will be easier than today. I think this post actually makes a Toad + Foolishness pair more likely. A lot of the time when you see a bus, you'll hear a mafia player say something along of lines of "I've told you guys, but you didn't listen" when the town alternative is about to flip. It could be a case of Toad knowing more than he should, since I think it definitely makes more sense to think that reading Foolishness the next day would be easier than reading the player that got frustrated with the thread and voted himself. This kind of post is what makes me think kita is town (along with that one I mentioned earlier, the long one). How easy is a post like this to make when he's talking about theoretical mafia POV? From a town perspective it sounds like a completely realistic mafia perspective but so much that it sounds fishy. Am I explaining this right? Essentially it truly sounds as though this is town trying to explain things from mafia POV rather than mafia explaining mafia POV. A lot of Toad's posts around that point (which I mentioned and Toad and I argued about briefly) just reekOn January 26 2014 03:21 Toadesstern wrote:
See I don't even mind that WoS vote but I really think Foolishness is the much better option today. The guy makes sense whenever he posts but as soon as he comes to some conclusion Sandro bad lynch despite having Sandro in his scumreads earlier on / WoS + Toad scumteam despite me voting WoS at that time and still harboring fuzzy feelings for him (not in a romantic way) it just goes batshit crazy.
He doesn't even feel the need to explain his mafiareads and instead writes wall of texts about his relationship with prome.
Like I said, I don't mind that WoS vote one bit but do you really think he's a better lynch than foolishness? All it looked like around this point in the day was him trying to get himself out of the 'strong scumread' on me based on his horrible case on post earlier. He tries to defend/explain himself here, but it just doesn't jive with me On January 26 2014 04:35 Toadesstern wrote:On January 26 2014 04:29 WaveofShadow wrote:On January 26 2014 04:26 VisceraEyes wrote:On January 26 2014 04:24 WaveofShadow wrote:
Ok a few thigns:
VE wtf was that vote on me? I don;t even understand your reasoning for it. Because I think you're town and no one else does? Is that it?
As far as marv;s argument, the problem is not only would you be comparing mafia to town mindset, you also have to remember that VE and I are two different people. My motivation has been ridiculously on this game not only because I'm not and want to win, but because of the game itself. Marv you remember me asking you pre-game if I should even play in this game? Part of my motivation this game is to show myself (and others) that I deserve to be in here. In any other game I highly doubt I would be spending such a great deal of the free time I barely have to post in massive bursts. VE may not be similarly motivated as town (or obviously as scum).
Now as for Foolishness, call me dumb but I'm starting to worry about how quickly it's being picked up. Especially by people like Toad. And even then if I'm right and Foolishness truly is mafia, is everybody going to be bamboozled by him again when he comes back with an hour to go and posts a flashy essay? It was that and the fact that Hapa suspected you and died - but gonzaw pointed out that he posted his suspicion AFTER the scum had made their shot, so it comes back to the "he's the only one who's right about me" which is NOT a strong enough point to lynch imo. It'd be pretty ballsy (if I'm right about you) as scum to be the only one. Hapa's suspicion is a stronger point if anything and I'll grant you that, but surprisingly nobody brought it up. And his case on me was vastly different than anyone else's I believe---I think it actually wasn't terrible. So, is Toad's voteswitch authentic or is he trying to jump off a losing train early and trying to gain some towncred on a bus? On January 24 2014 08:13 Toadesstern wrote:On January 24 2014 08:07 Promethelax wrote:
So hapa has
WoS
VE
Holy
Fool
as scummy. I was hoping he had a clear target before the resolution deadline that would have suggested that he was killed to push a single lynch.
In terms of history: marv or I are the most likely to kill Hapa as scum n1 I think. I actually disagree. Quick check through his filter, ignoring his last post because it was before deadline, will show up WoS a lot more than anyone else, especially if you compare it to VE who would be the one to show up more in Gonzaw's filter. So as I'm still going with the WoS and VE both look really bad, especially given that they both equally failed to do anything d1 deadline ( clicky! here to see why that's an issue I'd lean on WoS even more now. ##vote WoS you're welcome. Also wtf is that kind of a question. I'm getting cold feet here as I'm seeing you and VE on the same guy I want lynched and you have the balls to call Foolishness 100% mafia and say it's either a bus from me or a townie being right? Sure I think Foolishness is the best lynch but I wouldn't have the balls to call it that 100% certain oO Also when I voted foolish it was 2-2-2 in votes. I might be called the reason you're "wagon" is losing steam, again you're welcome Like all of Toad's activity since that point feels like subtle buddying/apologizing to me for earlier D2 to get me off of him, and it actually kind of worked for a while. yes I've been trying to be nice to you and you can call that buddying, but it's obviously a gross misrepresentation given that I still think you're scummy and still don't understand why Gonzaw thought you're town. You seem to be conveniently forgetting that part when talking about how I'm "buddying" you. Do me a favor and don't just read my filter, open those posts and look at those posts in context, especially read your own posts as well to get an idea. You were emotional, I tried to talk to you, you got super angry for no reason, you got pissed for no reason and you've been screaming and kicking in the thread whenever someone mentioned your name without praising you. I'm certaintly not buddying you, I'm ignoring you while you're impossible to talk to, may that be because you're faking emotions or because you're actually emotional. There was literally no point in talking to you so I stopped the hardcourse and instead tried a more relaxed approach to figure out if you'd still keep on doing that or if you'd chill down. If you look at my posts you'll find the exact same approach everytime someone posts emotional for an extended period, in this game for example VE. People are different and telling someone who's clearly screaming like a 5 year old to cool down while keeping pressure on them might be something gonzaw likes as an approach and it may work on a select few people but I think it's usually pointless. So yes I've been posting nicer when talking with you but I certainly wasn't buddying you. Gonzaw explained pretty damn clearly why he thought I was town, whether you believe it or not is another thing. Apparently you still think I'm scummy despite your change of direction and attack on Foolishness (which was in itself a soft defense of me at the time given what the thread was up to)? Go on, Toad, let's hear what still makes me scummy. I'm all ears. Okay let's give it a try. I'm cooking so I'll f5 every 3 or so minutes but keep that in mind. From your PoVFoolishness is you main suspect. You and I are the ones that ended up voting him. Kita was the one that got Foo into trouble innitially, I know he wasn't the one with the first vote but people started seriously considering him ever after his case. Kita was more than willing to help Gonzaw to get VE lynched. The lynch was between Foo and VE. Toad kept voting Foo, while Kita, the innitiator got off to ensure a VE lynch and help Gonzaw. You are certain that Foo is mafia. This story makes no sense. [/red][/red]
Ok so you are going to try and talk. Good.
Now as far as things making no sense? Wrong.
VE was a viable lynch target for yesterday, even I was strongly considering lynching him but in the end guts won out. I see no reason why a theoretical town kita wouldn't change his vote to VE. I have also explained multiple times why if you and Foolishness are scum a bus from makes some degree of sense, but how about you do me a favour? Why don't we drop the idea that Foolishness is scum altogether? What happens to this post then?
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I would REALLY like it if there was some other thread participation today, by the way.
For a game we were so certain we had won by N1 because 'scum are in a shitty position,' with a mislynch behind us and nobody talking they don't appear to be in such a shitty position anymore.
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On January 28 2014 04:22 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 04:17 WaveofShadow wrote:On January 28 2014 03:57 Toadesstern wrote:On January 28 2014 03:46 WaveofShadow wrote:Oh really Toad? 'Cause as i remember it, I was the one who recognized my own state and chose to take a break from the thread. On January 25 2014 07:53 WaveofShadow wrote:On January 25 2014 07:50 marvellosity wrote:
honestly wave, gonzaw's case boils down to simply that central point. an I want to put serious though into it when I'm not on my phone. I'm not being useful right now, just flinging shit at toad so ill bbl So that certainly doesn't explain your change of route. Not to mention the fact that I was pissed off at your case because of how terrible and obviously so it was. You're saying you opted not to keep pressure on me because of my emotional state? Would you have continued with the arguments you were pushing if I didn't yell at you, Toad? I'm pretty calm right now, would you like to continue to 'pressure' me about something? and you'll realize that I started posting nice with you a lot sooner than that, but I'm sure you're aware of that as well. You even just admitted that you were pissed and yelling at me. Yes I don't talk with people who are yelling at me, remember rayn? Yes you do but you obviously don't seem to remember for whatever convenient reason right now. Yes probably. Most likely not with you but with other people but you kept derailing the thread whenever I mentioned your name so I stopped it. No, I still have to figure out if I'm wrong about you or Foolishness first or if Kita is the one being town and I don't see a lot of reason to talk about you with you. You say you calmed down but you don't seem to realize the way you're posting right now. Crazy conspiracy, tunnely without a reason, still emotional inbetween as can be seen in the above post and the first 2 can either be contributed to a scum plan or to actual emotions. I'd be willing to talk with other people about you For fuck sakes I just deleted my post. let's try again. What? Crazy consipracy? How is a scumread on you a crazy conspiracy? And how am i tunneling you without reason? I have offered plenty of reason. I defy anyone else in this thread to look at what I've written about you and say it doesn't at the very least appear true. As far as emotional goes, there's a difference between the emotional and the tone I'm using right now. it's called accusatory, and considering I believe yo to be scum, I think it's pretty appropriate. All this post looks like is you trying to opt out of conversation with me, kinda like Foolishness. If you believe Foolishness to be scum and you're doing the same thing he is...well..... On January 28 2014 04:06 Toadesstern wrote:On January 28 2014 03:50 WaveofShadow wrote:On January 28 2014 03:37 Toadesstern wrote:On January 28 2014 03:18 WaveofShadow wrote:Let us talk about Toad for a sec. On January 28 2014 01:33 kitaman27 wrote:On January 28 2014 00:56 marvellosity wrote:
Fool+Toad is where i'm sitting. Not 100% confident in either so maybe trying to eliminate outliers will help... namely you.
I think that's the most likely pair right now, but there is some degree of distancing between the two. Toad is attacking Foolishness, while Foolishness wants to bring Toad to lylo. I'll need to see if it seems likely that Toad is pushing the Foolishness lynch with the hopes of winning a 2v1 endgame, if he is town and has a legitimate scum read on Fool, or if he is mafia with another player that we're overlooking. At one point foolishness argues that we shouldn't consider lynching sandroba, while Holy is still around. Do you think it makes sense to attack one inactive scum buddy, while defending the other, which could be a risk if the wrong one flips first? Or is it more likely that he simply doesn't see Holy flipping that cycle after the replacement has been announced so he feels safe doing so? On January 26 2014 07:39 Toadesstern wrote:
I'm kind of busy right now and only f5'in inbetween. I've told you guys to get on Foo, I told you multiple times so far and it's been ignored. I don't have the time to make a case right now.
I DO think Foolishness is the way better lynch though and I DO think that reading VE tomorrow will be easier than today. I think this post actually makes a Toad + Foolishness pair more likely. A lot of the time when you see a bus, you'll hear a mafia player say something along of lines of "I've told you guys, but you didn't listen" when the town alternative is about to flip. It could be a case of Toad knowing more than he should, since I think it definitely makes more sense to think that reading Foolishness the next day would be easier than reading the player that got frustrated with the thread and voted himself. This kind of post is what makes me think kita is town (along with that one I mentioned earlier, the long one). How easy is a post like this to make when he's talking about theoretical mafia POV? From a town perspective it sounds like a completely realistic mafia perspective but so much that it sounds fishy. Am I explaining this right? Essentially it truly sounds as though this is town trying to explain things from mafia POV rather than mafia explaining mafia POV. A lot of Toad's posts around that point (which I mentioned and Toad and I argued about briefly) just reekOn January 26 2014 03:21 Toadesstern wrote:
See I don't even mind that WoS vote but I really think Foolishness is the much better option today. The guy makes sense whenever he posts but as soon as he comes to some conclusion Sandro bad lynch despite having Sandro in his scumreads earlier on / WoS + Toad scumteam despite me voting WoS at that time and still harboring fuzzy feelings for him (not in a romantic way) it just goes batshit crazy.
He doesn't even feel the need to explain his mafiareads and instead writes wall of texts about his relationship with prome.
Like I said, I don't mind that WoS vote one bit but do you really think he's a better lynch than foolishness? All it looked like around this point in the day was him trying to get himself out of the 'strong scumread' on me based on his horrible case on post earlier. He tries to defend/explain himself here, but it just doesn't jive with me On January 26 2014 04:35 Toadesstern wrote:On January 26 2014 04:29 WaveofShadow wrote:On January 26 2014 04:26 VisceraEyes wrote:On January 26 2014 04:24 WaveofShadow wrote:
Ok a few thigns:
VE wtf was that vote on me? I don;t even understand your reasoning for it. Because I think you're town and no one else does? Is that it?
As far as marv;s argument, the problem is not only would you be comparing mafia to town mindset, you also have to remember that VE and I are two different people. My motivation has been ridiculously on this game not only because I'm not and want to win, but because of the game itself. Marv you remember me asking you pre-game if I should even play in this game? Part of my motivation this game is to show myself (and others) that I deserve to be in here. In any other game I highly doubt I would be spending such a great deal of the free time I barely have to post in massive bursts. VE may not be similarly motivated as town (or obviously as scum).
Now as for Foolishness, call me dumb but I'm starting to worry about how quickly it's being picked up. Especially by people like Toad. And even then if I'm right and Foolishness truly is mafia, is everybody going to be bamboozled by him again when he comes back with an hour to go and posts a flashy essay? It was that and the fact that Hapa suspected you and died - but gonzaw pointed out that he posted his suspicion AFTER the scum had made their shot, so it comes back to the "he's the only one who's right about me" which is NOT a strong enough point to lynch imo. It'd be pretty ballsy (if I'm right about you) as scum to be the only one. Hapa's suspicion is a stronger point if anything and I'll grant you that, but surprisingly nobody brought it up. And his case on me was vastly different than anyone else's I believe---I think it actually wasn't terrible. So, is Toad's voteswitch authentic or is he trying to jump off a losing train early and trying to gain some towncred on a bus? On January 24 2014 08:13 Toadesstern wrote:On January 24 2014 08:07 Promethelax wrote:
So hapa has
WoS
VE
Holy
Fool
as scummy. I was hoping he had a clear target before the resolution deadline that would have suggested that he was killed to push a single lynch.
In terms of history: marv or I are the most likely to kill Hapa as scum n1 I think. I actually disagree. Quick check through his filter, ignoring his last post because it was before deadline, will show up WoS a lot more than anyone else, especially if you compare it to VE who would be the one to show up more in Gonzaw's filter. So as I'm still going with the WoS and VE both look really bad, especially given that they both equally failed to do anything d1 deadline ( clicky! here to see why that's an issue I'd lean on WoS even more now. ##vote WoS you're welcome. Also wtf is that kind of a question. I'm getting cold feet here as I'm seeing you and VE on the same guy I want lynched and you have the balls to call Foolishness 100% mafia and say it's either a bus from me or a townie being right? Sure I think Foolishness is the best lynch but I wouldn't have the balls to call it that 100% certain oO Also when I voted foolish it was 2-2-2 in votes. I might be called the reason you're "wagon" is losing steam, again you're welcome Like all of Toad's activity since that point feels like subtle buddying/apologizing to me for earlier D2 to get me off of him, and it actually kind of worked for a while. yes I've been trying to be nice to you and you can call that buddying, but it's obviously a gross misrepresentation given that I still think you're scummy and still don't understand why Gonzaw thought you're town. You seem to be conveniently forgetting that part when talking about how I'm "buddying" you. Do me a favor and don't just read my filter, open those posts and look at those posts in context, especially read your own posts as well to get an idea. You were emotional, I tried to talk to you, you got super angry for no reason, you got pissed for no reason and you've been screaming and kicking in the thread whenever someone mentioned your name without praising you. I'm certaintly not buddying you, I'm ignoring you while you're impossible to talk to, may that be because you're faking emotions or because you're actually emotional. There was literally no point in talking to you so I stopped the hardcourse and instead tried a more relaxed approach to figure out if you'd still keep on doing that or if you'd chill down. If you look at my posts you'll find the exact same approach everytime someone posts emotional for an extended period, in this game for example VE. People are different and telling someone who's clearly screaming like a 5 year old to cool down while keeping pressure on them might be something gonzaw likes as an approach and it may work on a select few people but I think it's usually pointless. So yes I've been posting nicer when talking with you but I certainly wasn't buddying you. Gonzaw explained pretty damn clearly why he thought I was town, whether you believe it or not is another thing. Apparently you still think I'm scummy despite your change of direction and attack on Foolishness (which was in itself a soft defense of me at the time given what the thread was up to)? Go on, Toad, let's hear what still makes me scummy. I'm all ears. Okay let's give it a try. I'm cooking so I'll f5 every 3 or so minutes but keep that in mind. From your PoVFoolishness is you main suspect. You and I are the ones that ended up voting him. Kita was the one that got Foo into trouble innitially, I know he wasn't the one with the first vote but people started seriously considering him ever after his case. Kita was more than willing to help Gonzaw to get VE lynched. The lynch was between Foo and VE. Toad kept voting Foo, while Kita, the innitiator got off to ensure a VE lynch and help Gonzaw. You are certain that Foo is mafia. This story makes no sense. Ok so you are going to try and talk. Good. Now as far as things making no sense? Wrong. VE was a viable lynch target for yesterday, even I was strongly considering lynching him but in the end guts won out. I see no reason why a theoretical town kita wouldn't change his vote to VE. I have also explained multiple times why if you and Foolishness are scum a bus from makes some degree of sense, but how about you do me a favour? Why don't we drop the idea that Foolishness is scum altogether? What happens to this post then? only answering the last part right now because like I said, cooking:Then you end up with Kita + Toad. You are willing to drop your strongest mafia read in foolishness and consider me mafia as Kitas ally instead of going for the thing in comming, Kita being mafia according to you no matter what. fixed the tag btw. [/red]
That post is kinda wonky but I think I understand what you mean. No, the difference is kita, not you. You're mafia no matter what. Kita could still be town and a theoretical town Foolishness's analysis could also be wrong and scum could be someone like austin. The point being that I'm kidna through with considering association---this may be why this game has been so difficult so far. Every time someone comes up with something viable/likely as a scumread, it gets shot down because 'well so-and-so can't be scum with so-and-so because insert unflipped association case here'
I'm done doing that.
I'm considering you scum based on your own merits entirely, so if you forget about what Foolishness's alignment is completely in your above scenario, then you simply look scummy for switching off of me when the attack turned to you.
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I will say this very clearly.
FREE OF ASSOCIATION, the scumteam that makes the most sense to me at the current time is Foolishness/Toad.
When one includes association, that scumteam is certainly not eliminated, but I don't see any merit to considering the association right now at all.
If you want to defend yourself Toad, do it without associative tells.
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Actually no, don't defend yourself. I asked you about your scumread of me.
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Um...excuse me?
I dropped Foolishness where?
He is who I am voting right now.
I am simply doing my best to cinsder all options, have a discussion with you, and scumhunt because as far as I remember even if I'm right about Foolishness and he is scum, I still have to find the second scum.
Are you seriously trying to spin my words in this way? This is like the third example of you trying to misrepresent me in this game that I can think of, and I really don't like being misrepresented. I also really don't like being baited.
Are you purposefully trying to make me angry again right now Toad?
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Like, there's no way you can actually believe what you just wrote, so why say it in thread, Toad?
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On January 28 2014 04:48 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 04:36 WaveofShadow wrote:
Um...excuse me?
I dropped Foolishness where?
He is who I am voting right now.
I am simply doing my best to cinsder all options, have a discussion with you, and scumhunt because as far as I remember even if I'm right about Foolishness and he is scum, I still have to find the second scum.
Are you seriously trying to spin my words in this way? This is like the third example of you trying to misrepresent me in this game that I can think of, and I really don't like being misrepresented. I also really don't like being baited.
Are you purposefully trying to make me angry again right now Toad? Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 04:39 WaveofShadow wrote:
Like, there's no way you can actually believe what you just wrote, so why say it in thread, Toad? Ok this is the last time I'm telling you that. I'm not trying to make you angry, you basicly accused me of posting too nicely whenever I'm talking with you just 5 minutes ago. That's your beef with me and you're telling me I'm actively trying to make you angry? One more of those posts and I'm done talking with you for good. You do consider your options but you completly drop Kita out of the equation which I don't see someone doing if you actually happen to be town. You don't see those blatant mistakes in your arguments that makes everything you're talking about just not work out. I'm sitting here trying to figure out which assumption of mine is wrong. I don't see you doing that, instead you're ignoring it and continuing like nothing happened. That's the exact same thing I mentioned last game. You should be sitting here thinking "what that doesn't make sense, let's try to figure out why" instead of just ignoring it and continuing like nothing happened.
First of all don't threaten me. I don't respond to threats.
Second I drop Kita out right there because you said to me 'Kita must be mafia no matter what,' when that is simply not the case. Kita could very well be scum, true, but my current read of him has me attempting to consider him town.
I'm not even going do discuss your nicely subtle discrediting of everything I've done in that second paragraph. Very nice.
Like...how could you say I am not trying to consider my options when I take by top scumread since like D2 and try to consider him town in the scenario I offered you, and THEN you have the audacity to say 'Look at how scummy he is he flipped his scumread of Foolishness,' and THEN when I explain myself you say I'm not open to options?
Do you realize how ridiculous you sound?
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On January 28 2014 04:54 Toadesstern wrote:
for crying out loud, you were CERTAIN that VE was a townie and now you came in and tell me you, that at that time you thought the VE was a good one?
Objectively he likely was. Yo won't find me in my post-lynch rant calling VE a terrible lynch anywhere---and i've done that before. I have railed against lynches before (I can't think of an example right now but if you absolutely need the example I can find one later tonight).
He had all but opted out of the game, had a lot of things goign against him, but my personal townread on him overshadowed much of that---I'm couldn't rightly expect everyone else to drop their scumreads or at 'wanting-to-lynch- of VE for the so-called 'terrible reasons' I had for considering him town in the first place, could I?
If I were better at this game and/or had more time I would have been there trying to push against VE and would have actually been able to explain myself better but I couldn't and I wasn't. Doesn't mean I don't understand why he was lynched.
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On January 28 2014 04:59 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 04:56 WaveofShadow wrote:On January 28 2014 04:48 Toadesstern wrote:On January 28 2014 04:36 WaveofShadow wrote:
Um...excuse me?
I dropped Foolishness where?
He is who I am voting right now.
I am simply doing my best to cinsder all options, have a discussion with you, and scumhunt because as far as I remember even if I'm right about Foolishness and he is scum, I still have to find the second scum.
Are you seriously trying to spin my words in this way? This is like the third example of you trying to misrepresent me in this game that I can think of, and I really don't like being misrepresented. I also really don't like being baited.
Are you purposefully trying to make me angry again right now Toad? On January 28 2014 04:39 WaveofShadow wrote:
Like, there's no way you can actually believe what you just wrote, so why say it in thread, Toad? Ok this is the last time I'm telling you that. I'm not trying to make you angry, you basicly accused me of posting too nicely whenever I'm talking with you just 5 minutes ago. That's your beef with me and you're telling me I'm actively trying to make you angry? One more of those posts and I'm done talking with you for good. You do consider your options but you completly drop Kita out of the equation which I don't see someone doing if you actually happen to be town. You don't see those blatant mistakes in your arguments that makes everything you're talking about just not work out. I'm sitting here trying to figure out which assumption of mine is wrong. I don't see you doing that, instead you're ignoring it and continuing like nothing happened. That's the exact same thing I mentioned last game. You should be sitting here thinking "what that doesn't make sense, let's try to figure out why" instead of just ignoring it and continuing like nothing happened. First of all don't threaten me. I don't respond to threats. [...] Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 04:39 WaveofShadow wrote:
Like, there's no way you can actually believe what you just wrote, so why say it in thread, Toad? Done talking with you about you. Anything else you want to talk about?
You don't get to be done, Toad.
You haven't answered any of my major questions to a satisfactory degree. Can you give me a non-bullshit reason why you think I'm scummy? Because I haven't heard one yet.
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Actually, we can be done if you want. I think it'll be quite productive if those who haven't been around or were here and had to leave are able to comment on our little exchange.
I still have stuff to write about kita so I'm going to go attempt that again.
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On January 28 2014 07:55 Promethelax wrote:
Howdy Boys,
I'm back. Sorry for my absence. Work and I had a disagreement about my free time which work won. I have a few hours tonight and all day tomorrow though and I plan on using that time to my advantage in this game.
My goals for the next 24 hours are to filter dive all living players with a primary focus on Kita/WoS/Toad/Fool
My secondary goal is to spend time discussing with Austin a conspiracy theory fermenting in the depths of my sanity-lacking mind. I hope he can dispel the notion from my head.
My tertiary goal is to prove my townienss to the thread since, with my long absences, there should be some amount of doubt about my towniness and, due to our position it would be a great benefit to town to eliminate town players from the lynchable pool.
Anyone who has any questions for me should feel free to ask them. FYI: I am not up to date with the thread.
My filter dive begins with Toad. Updates to follow.
Read the thread first.
Also did you include Holy in your page count re: Toad? He joined late so it's not exactly fair. (I also worry about using thread-count metrics to look into people. While it does have merit in most games even though some people argue it doesn't, in this game it seems to already have created some controversy around me. I'd prefer if that doesn't become the focus for when people inevitably critique your reads.)
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On January 28 2014 09:33 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2014 09:15 marvellosity wrote:On January 23 2014 05:10 kitaman27 wrote:
The part of Foolishness's play that makes him most likely to be mafia this game is his disregard for his town image. Even in the games where he is a slow starting townie, he still puts a priority on avoiding the day one mislynch by making it clear that he is town. He has never been mislynched as town, so allowing this to happen in a shadow game would be seem to be out of character.
I think it's pretty likely that he hasn't checked back since his last large post, so I'm not sure I'm willing to come to the conclusion that he doesn't care, rather than assuming he isn't around. I do believe that it was PTP2 where he simply disappeared and we flipped him on day 2, leaving us pretty underwhelmed, so it's not out of the question. kita, how do you feel about this line of thinking at this stage of the game? I can't imagine his game plan is to essentially not post and think he's going to look good coming out of it. However, I've waited and waited and waited for him to provide an updated analysis of Wave, but at this point, his case is still based off the actions of night one. At this point, I'm not going to be satisfied with one big large case about how he has solved the game because it's too little too late, unless he brings up points that I have honestly not considered that are so compelling that they have to make sense. He must know that he is on the chopping block, but it's hard to say how much time he has. The reason I'm willing to say he is mafia is that the time he does have, he is using it to perform a Prom town analysis, which shows he has no understanding for what the town is looking for out of him.
This appears to still be why Toad thinks I'm scum as well.
It couldn't be that easy, could it?
Both scummers doing the same thing for a day and a half?
Random thought: kita (or maybe marv?) didn't you say something about Foolishness afking for the rest of some game and then he was lynched?
What of this one?
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Kita can you show me the evolution of Toad's read on Foolish? I'm not actually sure what I'm looking at in the Prome casen I could swear that refers to VE
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EPT
