TL Mafia Behavior - Page 6

On December 17 2013 11:48 Mocsta wrote:
I don't particularly care whether you guys ignore my points I raised earlier.

What I do care about is however is that, whatever enforcement comes from this discussion is issued out fairly regardless of status in the forum.

---

In my opinion: I don't think that WotC is the solution.

What it does is to create a system of discrimination/ostracizing that ironically will perpetuate this very culture you are trying to mitigate in the first place.

In regards to emotional "butthurt":
what is the difference someone between Troll A saying "you're a cum dumpster"
and a group of people unanimously voting "you're not worthy to play a free game on a free forum"

On December 17 2013 11:40 purpletrator wrote:

Sadly, I am guilty of this. However, if such behavior was more strictly moderated, it would no longer be a viable point of calling someone scum since they are in fear of disciplinary action.

I am on the fence with regards to DP's point about having an "abusive" meta. Something like "Have you seen what he's been writing? Guy is obviously too stupid to find scum" is not over the line, as it is using the perceived intelligence as an argument against believing that player. This is what a lot of the game is about, changing the way people read one another to further your win-con.

Most of the time, furthering your win-con is trying to make YOU look better/smarter/townier, but in some cases you NEED to be able to call someone (or at least their logic) terrible/stupid/scummy. We all understand that the game can get emotional and personal attacks are more likely to occur when you are riled up. It is going to be a part of the game, so this is a very fine line to be walked in terms of identifying what level of insults is classified as "going too far".

On December 17 2013 11:39 Corazon wrote:

Why don't you read the big picture before making statements like that.

I hold grudges against 3-4 people (who will not be named). I don't break them out in the games. I don't even talk to the people I have a grudge with. I avoid them, like I should.

Why is it when other people are parasites to this forum, they don't get called out for it, but whenever I say anything, I get called out and accused of things that are obviously not true? Why do they get confidentiality and I don't?

If anyone is reading Titanic, my behavior was really good until the last bit. I have 2 responses to getting irritated:

1) Getting mad and being a dick (what happened in BttB)
2) Not willing to play or post (what happened in Titanic)

Does anything I say actually matter at this point? I get the feeling that no matter what I say or what I do, I'm just going to get hate for it.

On December 17 2013 11:56 Mig wrote:
Stop arguing about Cora's behavior, cora/others. This isn't the place for it. You are derailing the discussion.

On December 17 2013 11:48 Mocsta wrote:
I don't particularly care whether you guys ignore my points I raised earlier.

What I do care about is however is that, whatever enforcement comes from this discussion is issued out fairly regardless of status in the forum.

---

In my opinion: I don't think that WotC is the solution.

What it does is to create a system of discrimination/ostracizing that ironically will perpetuate this very culture you are trying to mitigate in the first place.

In regards to emotional "butthurt":
what is the difference someone between Troll A saying "you're a cum dumpster"
and a group of people unanimously voting "you're not worthy to play a free game on a free forum"

On December 17 2013 12:01 Mocsta wrote:

I agree with this.

@Mig
What is the actual issue we are dealing with broken into its most raw state?

- Newbies not continuing past the newbies?
- Guests deciding not to join the newbies?
- Experienced players leaving?
- Something else?

I hear a lot of people saying, we need to do "this and that"
but I don't recall anyone saying because we need to achieve "this and that"

Where I am going with this is, how do you fix a problem if you have no understanding of the root cause.
And how do you ascertain the root cause if you do not understand what you are investigating.

On December 17 2013 12:01 Mocsta wrote:

I agree with this.

@Mig
What is the actual issue we are dealing with broken into its most raw state?

- Newbies not continuing past the newbies?
- Guests deciding not to join the newbies?
- Experienced players leaving?
- Something else?

I hear a lot of people saying, we need to do "this and that"
but I don't recall anyone saying because we need to achieve "this and that"

Where I am going with this is, how do you fix a problem if you have no understanding of the root cause.
And how do you ascertain the root cause if you do not understand what you are investigating.

On December 17 2013 12:06 WaveofShadow wrote:

I can name quite a few people who have left or have had no desire to continue playing as a direct result of the atmosphere in recent games. Whether or not these people need to 'suck it up' according to some people remains to be seen, but then you also have people leaving due to other ingame behavioural issues ie non playing according to win-con.

This then becomes compounded because people leaving mid-game due to above reasons doesn't exactly IMPROVE conditions (and is incredibly hypocritical).

In my opinion the core issue is that games are becoming increasingly 'less fun' due to a few factors people have mentioned, among them bad atmosphere/toxicity, spam, lurking/inactivity, and people not properly playing the game they signed up for. These issues sometimes overlap as well.

On December 17 2013 12:20 Mocsta wrote:
This is very reasonable.

I completely forgot about the spam argument that was being held 6 months ago.

Bad atmosphere/toxicity: If bans are meant to address this, then fine. But as I said before, all players need to be treated fairly and not be exempt due to reputation.

Spam: This is what I would consider to be a generation thing that wont cede anytime soon. Until an influential low-volume poster *that can play regularly* comes in to show people the ways of less spam; people that play currently have no reason to change what wins them games. That is a fact of any sport/human nature.

Lurking/inactivity: This might not remove "trolls", but would have not mitigation towards actives blowing their lids. Having said that, I agree it should be the responsibility of the active to keep their cool - a lesson i've had to learn the hard way multiple times.

Not enjoying the game: I agree. Its annoying to put so much time/care into a case and to then be thwarted. Some say, learn to improve and take motivation from it; others are shattered and won't put their heart on the sleeve again. Everyone is different, and opinions need to be respected.

Obviously the above is generic; I just felt like rambling to distract me from work

On December 17 2013 11:23 DarthPunk wrote:


Yes Kush. He would 100% be excluded from some games and it would not be deserved.

If you don't want to play with someone just don't play.