On December 10 2013 04:35 Blazinghand wrote: people complaining about 8am deadline better be complaining because they're on the road, not because 8 am is too early to wake up for anything
Why anyone would wake up before noon voluntarily is beyond me.
On December 10 2013 06:04 Spaghetticus wrote: So err... how do we get this started? I can't really remember what happens at this point when there isn't an election. I might go watch another ep then come back to see what is hap.
Well, we look at people's entry posts and prod at them if we find them unsatisfactory. Kinda like this post really.
On December 10 2013 06:16 Holyflare wrote: Asking about the same thing because new information was made available that your activity would be justifiably alright so there was no need to even post that your activity would be dwindling when you say that it won't be.
Do you feel it's more likely for scum to post excuses at the start of the game rather than town?
On December 10 2013 06:43 LSB wrote: ##Vote: purpletrator Scum are mafia pretending to be someone else. Smurfs are players pretending to be someone else. Smurfs = Mafia. Flawless mafia. Lynch all Smurfs
That only accounts for 75% of the mafia. I expected better from you on the first hour of D1, LSB.
Holy, I don't feel like his response is that different. I also don't think he'd put himself out there so much at the start of the game. No reason to draw attention to yourself like that as scum.
On December 10 2013 07:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I don't like Xatalos right now and I'm curious if anyone sees what I see before I say why.
Gladly oblige.
Quick to hop on someone really really unreasonably early and with not the greatest logic in the world?
My behavior right off is worse but he votes cora
I am so bad I am useful to scum in the lategame, so he would rather mislynch cora who though not perfect, is definitely better at being town than me.
Probably not exactly your point but I think you are also seeing the quick to lynch attitude. And the slightly unreasonable aggressiveness.
I'm seeing a scattershot that's flinging poo everywhere and found someone to whom it will stick. I don't feel like he's trying to discern anyone's alignment, but rather start chaos and find a nice lynch target. ##Vote Xatalos
On December 10 2013 07:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I don't like Xatalos right now and I'm curious if anyone sees what I see before I say why.
Gladly oblige.
Quick to hop on someone really really unreasonably early and with not the greatest logic in the world?
My behavior right off is worse but he votes cora
I am so bad I am useful to scum in the lategame, so he would rather mislynch cora who though not perfect, is definitely better at being town than me.
Probably not exactly your point but I think you are also seeing the quick to lynch attitude. And the slightly unreasonable aggressiveness.
I'm seeing a scattershot that's flinging poo everywhere and found someone to whom it will stick. I don't feel like he's trying to discern anyone's alignment, but rather start chaos and find a nice lynch target. ##Vote Xatalos
On December 10 2013 07:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I don't like Xatalos right now and I'm curious if anyone sees what I see before I say why.
Gladly oblige.
Quick to hop on someone really really unreasonably early and with not the greatest logic in the world?
My behavior right off is worse but he votes cora
I am so bad I am useful to scum in the lategame, so he would rather mislynch cora who though not perfect, is definitely better at being town than me.
Probably not exactly your point but I think you are also seeing the quick to lynch attitude. And the slightly unreasonable aggressiveness.
I'm seeing a scattershot that's flinging poo everywhere and found someone to whom it will stick. I don't feel like he's trying to discern anyone's alignment, but rather start chaos and find a nice lynch target. ##Vote Xatalos
Am I really right much at all?
You saw the same thing I saw, though your accents were different. As for whether you're right, well, we won't know until he flips.
On December 10 2013 07:17 LSB wrote: I think we need to calm down. My "townie on townie day 1 shitstorm" sense is tingling.
That speaking, oddly enough it does encourage a Xatalos lynch
Whom do you feel are townies from this and why? It hasn't really been one on one. It's been HF and Xatalos against Cora, and myself, Alakaslam and you against Xatalos. If you feel it's townie on townie, then you'd think Xatalos was town.
On December 10 2013 06:43 LSB wrote: ##Vote: purpletrator Scum are mafia pretending to be someone else. Smurfs are players pretending to be someone else. Smurfs = Mafia. Flawless mafia. Lynch all Smurfs
You could at least start in alphabetical order. What if I reveal my identity? Would you change your vote to a different smurf?
Worst post in thread. ##Vote: purpletrator
How is it alignment indicative at all? It just seems playful. Bad post =/= scummy post.
On December 10 2013 07:17 LSB wrote: I think we need to calm down. My "townie on townie day 1 shitstorm" sense is tingling.
That speaking, oddly enough it does encourage a Xatalos lynch
Whom do you feel are townies from this and why? It hasn't really been one on one. It's been HF and Xatalos against Cora, and myself, Alakaslam and you against Xatalos. If you feel it's townie on townie, then you'd think Xatalos was town.
So far I think I am townie, I haven't really thought past that. I just don't think this day 1 attitude is gonna be very productive.
The whole entire Xatalos suspicion does require a meta read on Xatalos to see if he is brilliant enough to try for the plan on day 1, or does he just play like this.
I just skimmed through the filter he linked and I don't think it looks like the start of this game at all. He's far more aggressive here. What were you trying to say exactly with your initial post if you didn't mean to give anyone a town read but yourself? I'm confused. I don't think a plan other than "starting shit" is required for scum. That's always a good thing.
On December 10 2013 07:16 Spaghetticus wrote: Xatalos do you think Artanis' point about you scatter-shotting is a good one? Artanis has a good eye.
Maybe I ought to calm down a bit. However, I'm tired of slow first days. It feels good to get something going fast.
Do you think my pressure on you is indicative of my alignment?
Hard to say. I'd say slightly leaning town based on the fact that you're apparently trying to unravel my alignment. But I think you're a veteran player? How many games have you played? In that sense, it could possibly be almost anything.
I think I played around 15-20, but I've played since the dinosaur era. Games are in my profile but I'm too lazy to dig it up.
On December 10 2013 07:17 LSB wrote: I think we need to calm down. My "townie on townie day 1 shitstorm" sense is tingling.
That speaking, oddly enough it does encourage a Xatalos lynch
Whom do you feel are townies from this and why? It hasn't really been one on one. It's been HF and Xatalos against Cora, and myself, Alakaslam and you against Xatalos. If you feel it's townie on townie, then you'd think Xatalos was town.
So far I think I am townie, I haven't really thought past that. I just don't think this day 1 attitude is gonna be very productive.
The whole entire Xatalos suspicion does require a meta read on Xatalos to see if he is brilliant enough to try for the plan on day 1, or does he just play like this.
I just skimmed through the filter he linked and I don't think it looks like the start of this game at all. He's far more aggressive here. What were you trying to say exactly with your initial post if you didn't mean to give anyone a town read but yourself? I'm confused. I don't think a plan other than "starting shit" is required for scum. That's always a good thing.
In my opinion natural scum play is to stay low, especially on day 1, the town tends to self destruct anyways day 1. This whole entire "starting shit" strat is actually pretty good, even though it is counterintuitive to the idea of trying to not draw attention. Thus I assumed this strat is not very obvious, especially since I personally never considered it.
This is all pure speculation. Something more grounded is that Xatalos is definably acting very different from before, and in my eyes less of a townie
I don't feel like Xatalos put himself in the spotlight as much as trying to put others in the spotlight. Corazon put himself in the spotlight without any scum gain. When you look at his post from a scum point of view, it doesn't make sense for them to make it. I can see a scum agenda behind Xatalos' posts. That said, I do like his view on my pressure on him in that it was nuanced rather than trying to score town points. The rest of the day should provide more information.
On December 10 2013 07:36 Holyflare wrote: Nobody going to discuss cora's mindset or are you going to dismiss it outright for xantos discussion some more?
On December 10 2013 06:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Holy, I don't feel like his response is that different. I also don't think he'd put himself out there so much at the start of the game. No reason to draw attention to yourself like that as scum.
Given you quoted me I take it you'd like a response from me? I don't find Corazon scummy at this point in time because he drew attention to himself without any scum benefit.
On December 10 2013 07:17 LSB wrote: I think we need to calm down. My "townie on townie day 1 shitstorm" sense is tingling.
That speaking, oddly enough it does encourage a Xatalos lynch
Whom do you feel are townies from this and why? It hasn't really been one on one. It's been HF and Xatalos against Cora, and myself, Alakaslam and you against Xatalos. If you feel it's townie on townie, then you'd think Xatalos was town.
So far I think I am townie, I haven't really thought past that. I just don't think this day 1 attitude is gonna be very productive.
The whole entire Xatalos suspicion does require a meta read on Xatalos to see if he is brilliant enough to try for the plan on day 1, or does he just play like this.
I just skimmed through the filter he linked and I don't think it looks like the start of this game at all. He's far more aggressive here. What were you trying to say exactly with your initial post if you didn't mean to give anyone a town read but yourself? I'm confused. I don't think a plan other than "starting shit" is required for scum. That's always a good thing.
In my opinion natural scum play is to stay low, especially on day 1, the town tends to self destruct anyways day 1. This whole entire "starting shit" strat is actually pretty good, even though it is counterintuitive to the idea of trying to not draw attention. Thus I assumed this strat is not very obvious, especially since I personally never considered it.
This is all pure speculation. Something more grounded is that Xatalos is definably acting very different from before, and in my eyes less of a townie
I don't feel like Xatalos put himself in the spotlight as much as trying to put others in the spotlight. Corazon put himself in the spotlight without any scum gain. When you look at his post from a scum point of view, it doesn't make sense for them to make it. I can see a scum agenda behind Xatalos' posts. That said, I do like his view on my pressure on him in that it was nuanced rather than trying to score town points. The rest of the day should provide more information.
On December 10 2013 07:36 Holyflare wrote: Nobody going to discuss cora's mindset or are you going to dismiss it outright for xantos discussion some more?
On December 10 2013 06:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Holy, I don't feel like his response is that different. I also don't think he'd put himself out there so much at the start of the game. No reason to draw attention to yourself like that as scum.
Given you quoted me I take it you'd like a response from me? I don't find Corazon scummy at this point in time because he drew attention to himself without any scum benefit.
Is it not also a scum mindset to heavily defend themselves when attacked, unnaturally so? Also while defending themselves to then deflect upon another person? Why are you only looking for the people that are "starting shit"? I only know a few scum that play that way. Have you any scum meta on Xatalos that suggests he plays like he is?
I don't like how you're so dismissive over cora without discussion when with Xantos you skim the filters to discuss him further.
On December 10 2013 06:52 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Holy, I don't feel like his response is that different. I also don't think he'd put himself out there so much at the start of the game. No reason to draw attention to yourself like that as scum.
On December 10 2013 07:17 LSB wrote: I think we need to calm down. My "townie on townie day 1 shitstorm" sense is tingling.
That speaking, oddly enough it does encourage a Xatalos lynch
Whom do you feel are townies from this and why? It hasn't really been one on one. It's been HF and Xatalos against Cora, and myself, Alakaslam and you against Xatalos. If you feel it's townie on townie, then you'd think Xatalos was town.
So far I think I am townie, I haven't really thought past that. I just don't think this day 1 attitude is gonna be very productive.
The whole entire Xatalos suspicion does require a meta read on Xatalos to see if he is brilliant enough to try for the plan on day 1, or does he just play like this.
I just skimmed through the filter he linked and I don't think it looks like the start of this game at all. He's far more aggressive here. What were you trying to say exactly with your initial post if you didn't mean to give anyone a town read but yourself? I'm confused. I don't think a plan other than "starting shit" is required for scum. That's always a good thing.
Look at the difference between these two points - on the one hand (cora) is dismissed by saying "I don't think scum plays that way" whereas the second (Xatalos) is "I have skimmed it briefly and think it's different because X,Y,Z. Question, question.
It's simple. Cora's post could not achieve any scum agenda. I don't see scum reasoning behind his posts more so than a town player would, whereas Xalatos' posts can definitely serve a scum agenda, and I feel they have though I liked his followups since then.
I like LSB's points on Sidesprang and Rayn's points on purple. Rayn's more so than LSB but I'd need to do a rereading and I'm lazy.
On December 10 2013 19:41 Holyflare wrote: I'm not sure I follow you in regards to pushing "scum agendas". It's quite simple for a person to not do anything other than their normal town play as scum on day 1. Why would scum be pushing "agendas" so brazenly? The only reason they would need to conform to some agenda would be to get votes off of a person if it was their scum buddy - in this case - it would be off of cora who he is attacking.
If he's not pushing any agenda then there is nothing in his posts that prove he's scum or not. The point is to prove someone is scum, not prove that they're bad. Xatalos would be pushing for a scum agenda by causing chaos, creating multiple targets or securing a mislynch. Corazon only mentioned he could be inactive later, and he's played enough games to know how these posts are frowned upon.
On December 10 2013 19:41 Holyflare wrote: I'm not sure I follow you in regards to pushing "scum agendas". It's quite simple for a person to not do anything other than their normal town play as scum on day 1. Why would scum be pushing "agendas" so brazenly? The only reason they would need to conform to some agenda would be to get votes off of a person if it was their scum buddy - in this case - it would be off of cora who he is attacking.
If he's not pushing any agenda then there is nothing in his posts that prove he's scum or not. The point is to prove someone is scum, not prove that they're bad. Xatalos would be pushing for a scum agenda by causing chaos, creating multiple targets or securing a mislynch. Corazon only mentioned he could be inactive later, and he's played enough games to know how these posts are frowned upon.
You don't think Mafia's primary agenda is to survive? Creating an excuse at the start of the game after roles are sent out which explains away the common drop in activity that many experience when playing scums fit's that agenda perfectly.
I didn't think scum would be that blatant about it given that first posts like these often result in pressure. I just realized that there's no town reason for it either if they know that. I feel pretty silly now.
On December 10 2013 19:53 Holyflare wrote: Dat backtracking
I hunt scum based on finding scum reasoning. I didn't find it with Cora, but I did find it with Xata. Came onto new insights after being questioned. Any other questions?
On December 10 2013 19:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: So Artanis how is Xatalos pushing scum agenda if you take accont into what i said about him regarding how he plays as town? Why can't he just be eager to start the discussion and gather information?
I'm not familiar with Xatalos' meta, or don't remember. I don't feel like a scattershot aids town, and I feel it serves a scum agenda so I pursued. Yes, it's possible he could just be eager to start discussion. Anyone can be town until they flip.
On December 10 2013 19:53 Holyflare wrote: Dat backtracking
I hunt scum based on finding scum reasoning. I didn't find it with Cora, but I did find it with Xata. Came onto new insights after being questioned. Any other questions?
Every point I made on cora in my filter is fueled by a scum agenda so I see no reason why you would not investigate/discuss it further and then move onto Xatalos instead.
Because Cora's initial post made me think he was unlikely to be scum and skimming through your post I didn't find anything that negated that. I needed to think about the original post again, apparently. Plutarch, I'll get back to you after breakfast and a shower.
On December 10 2013 06:02 Corazon wrote: Alright guys, I just want to let you all know that I have some English work to do in the next two days so don't expect me to be super-active. I will try my best but I won't be spamming up the thread. I'm also going to try and take notes this game because I feel like I play better when I take notes. Plus, it makes me read everything a lot more in-depth.
If you are town and you are lurking, expect to be under the gun during the game and expect me to not be very nice to you post-game. I will be weighing activity a lot heavier in my voting decision this game than I have in the past. You all are warned. If you are going to take a sieste the entire time and not participate, I am going to be on you until you do so.
That is all.
The first paragraph talks about how he'll be inactive during D1, then the second paragraph goes on about how he'll go after inactive players. It's a semi self-contradictory post. Semi, because he only said he'll be inactive during D1 whereas going after inactive players spans the whole game. He clarifies it in his next post.
On December 10 2013 06:13 Corazon wrote: I sense the fact that you aren't reading my posts 100%. You've already gotten off to a rocky start with me due to your baseless accusation. Make sure it doesn't happen again.
I don't like this post because his post implies he isn't trying to get scumreads. He's saying "you're playing bad, keep playing bad and I'll vote you!", basically. This displays a scum mindset to me.
On December 10 2013 07:12 Spaghetticus wrote: @Corazon
I see no problem with the votes. What is your problem with them?
If you want me to contribute thing with which I can later contradict myself, ask me a question. That's what someone that is trying to find scum would do.
What would a scum do?
Sorry I can't ask you questions right now, I have to get all of the shit off me that Xatalos threw on me. Sorry.
You said that you had a problem with me basing my suspicions off of nothing and I was just reflecting that it was similar to how I was pressured - not based off of much.
Now I must go to work.
This post feels very townie to me. He seems genuinely frustrated at the pressure piled upon him, even admitting that his suspicions were based off nothing out of frustration that other people were doing that on him. His Xatalos case is mostly a rehash of what was already said in the thread. It didn't feel like a case attempting to get town cred, but more an attempt to actually push for a Xatalos lynch.
As for Plutarch's interactions with Corazon, it feels to me like Corazon's frustration is genuine. He just wants people to get off his back. Corazon's defense of himself doesn't feel like it would be the optimal defense to make from a scum point of view. I find the tale of frustrated townie more likely, with the post I quoted earlier being the only thing that truly suggests scum. Corazon has no problem being contradictory. His posts aren't carefully constructed, and they feel genuine.
On December 10 2013 21:01 Holyflare wrote: Artanis those things you point out are definitely not the scummy things that cora is doing. I'll highlight some things for you (check my filter for more in-depth stuff on him).
1) He says he dislikes lurkers a lot and will be hard on them this game - hasn't done that at all.
He hasn't done much this game other than defend himself because people have been on his case all the time.
2) He has a list of 3 people that he thinks are scum: Xatalos, me? and purple (after not mentioning much/anything? about him)
This is scummy how? He hasn't mentioned purple much as there hasn't been much of purple to be mentioned.
3) Claimed he disliked piggybacking and then proceeded to piggyback onto Xatalos, +1ing slam.
Hating on piggybacking is a completely standard thing to say. Townies are hypocritical all the time. Doesn't make them scum.
4) After being pressured says he has to go, returns when Xatalos has started to gain traction and then pushes him (within the time he said he'd be gone).
Returning after you said you'd be gone is more townie than scum in my eyes. If I say I'm gone as scum I'll be gone because I have an aversion to posting as scum that I don't have as townie.
There are more but it's mostly in my filter. I don't like how you've left all that out though and only mentioned that 1 post has scummy nature to it.
Because I didn't find any of the rest of the filter scummy. I don't see what you see.
rayn, my Mafia meta has indeed changed closer to my town meta in recent games. Before, there was a huge difference, but lately it's not that big of a difference. My advice is to focus more on how my game develops from here rather than focusing on the start. As you can see from Dessert, my D1 was relatively the same as my town D1, but it went scummier from there. I've always been active during D1 in recent games (as either alignment), so it's more of a null tell rather than a big town tell.
By the way, I like the fact that you made research on my past games. I think you mentioned that Artanis's early comments on me were similar compared to your negative/distracting comments on me in GoT Mafia. I thought of it more as an attempt to pressure me townishly, but now that I think about it, there are several factors pointing to the other option. Mainly:
1) the inconsistent attitudes towards me/Corazon 2) stopping/distracting me from pursuing my standard aggro for quite some time 3) throwing a vote on me quickly and fading to the background right after that (let town distract itself?)
Artanis, now I'd like you to answer:
1) Seeing as your vote remains on me, do you still think I'm scum? If yes, why? 2) How does your re-examination of Corazon change your view on me? 3) Do you have any other opinions outside of me/Corazon?
I'm smelling some OMGUS here. 1) Yes, I have a scum read on you. I've already explained why; scattershooting and seeing what sticks. Now that town sentiment has changed onto me, you seem to find it fitting to go after me too. I don't like it. 2) It doesn't change my read on you. I find the reasons you went after Corazon lacking and stemming from the feeling that you can secure a lynch easily on him. 3) Yes, if you read my filter you'd have seen that I liked Rayn's points on Purple and LSB's points on Sidesprang, but I'm happy where my vote is right now.
On December 10 2013 21:01 Holyflare wrote: Artanis those things you point out are definitely not the scummy things that cora is doing. I'll highlight some things for you (check my filter for more in-depth stuff on him).
1) He says he dislikes lurkers a lot and will be hard on them this game - hasn't done that at all.
He hasn't done much this game other than defend himself because people have been on his case all the time.
2) He has a list of 3 people that he thinks are scum: Xatalos, me? and purple (after not mentioning much/anything? about him)
This is scummy how? He hasn't mentioned purple much as there hasn't been much of purple to be mentioned.
3) Claimed he disliked piggybacking and then proceeded to piggyback onto Xatalos, +1ing slam.
Hating on piggybacking is a completely standard thing to say. Townies are hypocritical all the time. Doesn't make them scum.
4) After being pressured says he has to go, returns when Xatalos has started to gain traction and then pushes him (within the time he said he'd be gone).
Returning after you said you'd be gone is more townie than scum in my eyes. If I say I'm gone as scum I'll be gone because I have an aversion to posting as scum that I don't have as townie.
There are more but it's mostly in my filter. I don't like how you've left all that out though and only mentioned that 1 post has scummy nature to it.
Because I didn't find any of the rest of the filter scummy. I don't see what you see.
rayn, my Mafia meta has indeed changed closer to my town meta in recent games. Before, there was a huge difference, but lately it's not that big of a difference. My advice is to focus more on how my game develops from here rather than focusing on the start. As you can see from Dessert, my D1 was relatively the same as my town D1, but it went scummier from there. I've always been active during D1 in recent games (as either alignment), so it's more of a null tell rather than a big town tell.
By the way, I like the fact that you made research on my past games. I think you mentioned that Artanis's early comments on me were similar compared to your negative/distracting comments on me in GoT Mafia. I thought of it more as an attempt to pressure me townishly, but now that I think about it, there are several factors pointing to the other option. Mainly:
1) the inconsistent attitudes towards me/Corazon 2) stopping/distracting me from pursuing my standard aggro for quite some time 3) throwing a vote on me quickly and fading to the background right after that (let town distract itself?)
Artanis, now I'd like you to answer:
1) Seeing as your vote remains on me, do you still think I'm scum? If yes, why? 2) How does your re-examination of Corazon change your view on me? 3) Do you have any other opinions outside of me/Corazon?
I'm smelling some OMGUS here. 1) Yes, I have a scum read on you. I've already explained why; scattershooting and seeing what sticks. Now that town sentiment has changed onto me, you seem to find it fitting to go after me too. I don't like it. 2) It doesn't change my read on you. I find the reasons you went after Corazon lacking and stemming from the feeling that you can secure a lynch easily on him. 3) Yes, if you read my filter you'd have seen that I liked Rayn's points on Purple and LSB's points on Sidesprang, but I'm happy where my vote is right now.
1) Actually, if you looked at my earlier filter, I already voiced some suspicion of you when you defended Corazon (since he "grabbed attention") while accusing me (even though I grabbed attention intentionally unlike Corazon). With that logic, you should have defended me and accused Corazon (since he just unintentionally grabbed attention, tried to deflect it and then disappeared). While I was doing my aggro and grabbed attention as a natural part of my play...
2) Do you really think that pressure in the first hour of the game = securing a lynch? Granted, my vote is currently on Corazon, but really.... How is it a Mafia play to put heavy pressure at the very start?
3) I agree with those other points, but how am I the scummiest? How does your logic agree with purple and sidesprang being scummy, yet I'm the scummiest (with pretty illogical reasoning, even)? It just doesn't make sense.
If something doesn't make sense, it's probably coming from scum. I think your reads on me/Corazon are definitely not making sense.
##Unvote ##Vote Artanis[Xp]
0) So you opened up the option to OMGUS early. That doesn't mean you're not OMGUS'ing. You've just gone full OMGUS. 1) I already told you that what Corazon did wasn't from a scum agenda. What you did conforms to one. Yes, he's been full of excuses and all that, but he hasn't done anything to further a scum agenda which is how you catch scum. 2) Early votes don't mean too much. What I'm saying is that Cora is an easy push and you know it. 3) You're the scummiest because you have the most content and there's more of you to go after. The other two have barely posted and are either smurfs or new, whereas you're held to higher standards.
If something doesn't make sense, you try to figure it out. You're not doing that.
On December 10 2013 22:34 Grackaroni wrote: Ok then. ##Vote: Raynepelikoneet
Are you scumclaiming?
Rayn has a shitty vote (target someone for being dumb), when I explain to him that its shitty he makes no effort to convince me and instead tells other people I am scummy for shutting down his dumb case. I won't be surprised if he is scum and if he is town then he can go lose.
Rayn made a case on purple then commented on recent events whilst continuing to try to bring his initial case under attention. Xatalos has actively tried to push a scum agenda. Even besides Xata there's plenty of people that look much worse than Rayn. He's not getting lynched today so why are you wasting your vote, and why would you be okay with lynching a town Rayn?
On December 10 2013 21:01 Holyflare wrote: Artanis those things you point out are definitely not the scummy things that cora is doing. I'll highlight some things for you (check my filter for more in-depth stuff on him).
1) He says he dislikes lurkers a lot and will be hard on them this game - hasn't done that at all.
He hasn't done much this game other than defend himself because people have been on his case all the time.
2) He has a list of 3 people that he thinks are scum: Xatalos, me? and purple (after not mentioning much/anything? about him)
This is scummy how? He hasn't mentioned purple much as there hasn't been much of purple to be mentioned.
3) Claimed he disliked piggybacking and then proceeded to piggyback onto Xatalos, +1ing slam.
Hating on piggybacking is a completely standard thing to say. Townies are hypocritical all the time. Doesn't make them scum.
4) After being pressured says he has to go, returns when Xatalos has started to gain traction and then pushes him (within the time he said he'd be gone).
Returning after you said you'd be gone is more townie than scum in my eyes. If I say I'm gone as scum I'll be gone because I have an aversion to posting as scum that I don't have as townie.
There are more but it's mostly in my filter. I don't like how you've left all that out though and only mentioned that 1 post has scummy nature to it.
Because I didn't find any of the rest of the filter scummy. I don't see what you see.
rayn, my Mafia meta has indeed changed closer to my town meta in recent games. Before, there was a huge difference, but lately it's not that big of a difference. My advice is to focus more on how my game develops from here rather than focusing on the start. As you can see from Dessert, my D1 was relatively the same as my town D1, but it went scummier from there. I've always been active during D1 in recent games (as either alignment), so it's more of a null tell rather than a big town tell.
By the way, I like the fact that you made research on my past games. I think you mentioned that Artanis's early comments on me were similar compared to your negative/distracting comments on me in GoT Mafia. I thought of it more as an attempt to pressure me townishly, but now that I think about it, there are several factors pointing to the other option. Mainly:
1) the inconsistent attitudes towards me/Corazon 2) stopping/distracting me from pursuing my standard aggro for quite some time 3) throwing a vote on me quickly and fading to the background right after that (let town distract itself?)
Artanis, now I'd like you to answer:
1) Seeing as your vote remains on me, do you still think I'm scum? If yes, why? 2) How does your re-examination of Corazon change your view on me? 3) Do you have any other opinions outside of me/Corazon?
I'm smelling some OMGUS here. 1) Yes, I have a scum read on you. I've already explained why; scattershooting and seeing what sticks. Now that town sentiment has changed onto me, you seem to find it fitting to go after me too. I don't like it. 2) It doesn't change my read on you. I find the reasons you went after Corazon lacking and stemming from the feeling that you can secure a lynch easily on him. 3) Yes, if you read my filter you'd have seen that I liked Rayn's points on Purple and LSB's points on Sidesprang, but I'm happy where my vote is right now.
1) Actually, if you looked at my earlier filter, I already voiced some suspicion of you when you defended Corazon (since he "grabbed attention") while accusing me (even though I grabbed attention intentionally unlike Corazon). With that logic, you should have defended me and accused Corazon (since he just unintentionally grabbed attention, tried to deflect it and then disappeared). While I was doing my aggro and grabbed attention as a natural part of my play...
2) Do you really think that pressure in the first hour of the game = securing a lynch? Granted, my vote is currently on Corazon, but really.... How is it a Mafia play to put heavy pressure at the very start?
3) I agree with those other points, but how am I the scummiest? How does your logic agree with purple and sidesprang being scummy, yet I'm the scummiest (with pretty illogical reasoning, even)? It just doesn't make sense.
If something doesn't make sense, it's probably coming from scum. I think your reads on me/Corazon are definitely not making sense.
##Unvote ##Vote Artanis[Xp]
0) So you opened up the option to OMGUS early. That doesn't mean you're not OMGUS'ing. You've just gone full OMGUS. 1) I already told you that what Corazon did wasn't from a scum agenda. What you did conforms to one. Yes, he's been full of excuses and all that, but he hasn't done anything to further a scum agenda which is how you catch scum. 2) Early votes don't mean too much. What I'm saying is that Cora is an easy push and you know it. 3) You're the scummiest because you have the most content and there's more of you to go after. The other two have barely posted and are either smurfs or new, whereas you're held to higher standards.
If something doesn't make sense, you try to figure it out. You're not doing that.
Then enlighten me: 1) If my play is a possible scum play, how is it more likely scum than town?
Because your play suggested a carelessness on who actually gets lynched, as long as it isn't you (or presumably your scumbuddies), and were happy to scattershot on everyone.
2) Why did you defend Corazon for grabbing attention (while actually he didn't intend to), yet accused me for doing just that ("creating confusion")?
I've said this a million times. There was no scum agenda behind Corazon's posts. He doesn't give a shit about how he looks and doesn't construct his posts carefully. This in contrast to you. It's not just what, but also how.
3) How is it not a scum agenda to make excuses for lurking in advance and deflecting attention away from himself (like Corazon)?
Because what good does it actually do? Give me a realistic situation in a game where people fall back to "hey I said at the start of the game that I'll be less active" and it having any meaningful affect whatsoever, especially when he followed it up with giving an inclination to lynching inactives himself.
4) How is it not a town agenda to create discussion and pressure aggressively (like me)?
It's good to create discussion and pressure, but the questions should lead somewhere and not antagonize everyone, then try to find a weak target to latch onto as you did with Corazon. It's not the what, it's the how.
On December 10 2013 21:01 Holyflare wrote: Artanis those things you point out are definitely not the scummy things that cora is doing. I'll highlight some things for you (check my filter for more in-depth stuff on him).
1) He says he dislikes lurkers a lot and will be hard on them this game - hasn't done that at all.
He hasn't done much this game other than defend himself because people have been on his case all the time.
2) He has a list of 3 people that he thinks are scum: Xatalos, me? and purple (after not mentioning much/anything? about him)
This is scummy how? He hasn't mentioned purple much as there hasn't been much of purple to be mentioned.
3) Claimed he disliked piggybacking and then proceeded to piggyback onto Xatalos, +1ing slam.
Hating on piggybacking is a completely standard thing to say. Townies are hypocritical all the time. Doesn't make them scum.
4) After being pressured says he has to go, returns when Xatalos has started to gain traction and then pushes him (within the time he said he'd be gone).
Returning after you said you'd be gone is more townie than scum in my eyes. If I say I'm gone as scum I'll be gone because I have an aversion to posting as scum that I don't have as townie.
There are more but it's mostly in my filter. I don't like how you've left all that out though and only mentioned that 1 post has scummy nature to it.
Because I didn't find any of the rest of the filter scummy. I don't see what you see.
rayn, my Mafia meta has indeed changed closer to my town meta in recent games. Before, there was a huge difference, but lately it's not that big of a difference. My advice is to focus more on how my game develops from here rather than focusing on the start. As you can see from Dessert, my D1 was relatively the same as my town D1, but it went scummier from there. I've always been active during D1 in recent games (as either alignment), so it's more of a null tell rather than a big town tell.
By the way, I like the fact that you made research on my past games. I think you mentioned that Artanis's early comments on me were similar compared to your negative/distracting comments on me in GoT Mafia. I thought of it more as an attempt to pressure me townishly, but now that I think about it, there are several factors pointing to the other option. Mainly:
1) the inconsistent attitudes towards me/Corazon 2) stopping/distracting me from pursuing my standard aggro for quite some time 3) throwing a vote on me quickly and fading to the background right after that (let town distract itself?)
Artanis, now I'd like you to answer:
1) Seeing as your vote remains on me, do you still think I'm scum? If yes, why? 2) How does your re-examination of Corazon change your view on me? 3) Do you have any other opinions outside of me/Corazon?
I'm smelling some OMGUS here. 1) Yes, I have a scum read on you. I've already explained why; scattershooting and seeing what sticks. Now that town sentiment has changed onto me, you seem to find it fitting to go after me too. I don't like it. 2) It doesn't change my read on you. I find the reasons you went after Corazon lacking and stemming from the feeling that you can secure a lynch easily on him. 3) Yes, if you read my filter you'd have seen that I liked Rayn's points on Purple and LSB's points on Sidesprang, but I'm happy where my vote is right now.
1) Actually, if you looked at my earlier filter, I already voiced some suspicion of you when you defended Corazon (since he "grabbed attention") while accusing me (even though I grabbed attention intentionally unlike Corazon). With that logic, you should have defended me and accused Corazon (since he just unintentionally grabbed attention, tried to deflect it and then disappeared). While I was doing my aggro and grabbed attention as a natural part of my play...
2) Do you really think that pressure in the first hour of the game = securing a lynch? Granted, my vote is currently on Corazon, but really.... How is it a Mafia play to put heavy pressure at the very start?
3) I agree with those other points, but how am I the scummiest? How does your logic agree with purple and sidesprang being scummy, yet I'm the scummiest (with pretty illogical reasoning, even)? It just doesn't make sense.
If something doesn't make sense, it's probably coming from scum. I think your reads on me/Corazon are definitely not making sense.
##Unvote ##Vote Artanis[Xp]
0) So you opened up the option to OMGUS early. That doesn't mean you're not OMGUS'ing. You've just gone full OMGUS. 1) I already told you that what Corazon did wasn't from a scum agenda. What you did conforms to one. Yes, he's been full of excuses and all that, but he hasn't done anything to further a scum agenda which is how you catch scum. 2) Early votes don't mean too much. What I'm saying is that Cora is an easy push and you know it. 3) You're the scummiest because you have the most content and there's more of you to go after. The other two have barely posted and are either smurfs or new, whereas you're held to higher standards.
If something doesn't make sense, you try to figure it out. You're not doing that.
Then enlighten me: 1) If my play is a possible scum play, how is it more likely scum than town?
Because your play suggested a carelessness on who actually gets lynched, as long as it isn't you (or presumably your scumbuddies), and were happy to scattershot on everyone.
2) Why did you defend Corazon for grabbing attention (while actually he didn't intend to), yet accused me for doing just that ("creating confusion")?
I've said this a million times. There was no scum agenda behind Corazon's posts. He doesn't give a shit about how he looks and doesn't construct his posts carefully. This in contrast to you. It's not just what, but also how.
3) How is it not a scum agenda to make excuses for lurking in advance and deflecting attention away from himself (like Corazon)?
Because what good does it actually do? Give me a realistic situation in a game where people fall back to "hey I said at the start of the game that I'll be less active" and it having any meaningful affect whatsoever, especially when he followed it up with giving an inclination to lynching inactives himself.
4) How is it not a town agenda to create discussion and pressure aggressively (like me)?
It's good to create discussion and pressure, but the questions should lead somewhere and not antagonize everyone, then try to find a weak target to latch onto as you did with Corazon. It's not the what, it's the how.
Are you seriously saying that my posting is crafted while Corazon's isn't?? This bias is incredible. Just look at his first post (it's extremely crafted):
On December 10 2013 06:02 Corazon wrote: Alright guys, I just want to let you all know that I have some English work to do in the next two days so don't expect me to be super-active. I will try my best but I won't be spamming up the thread. I'm also going to try and take notes this game because I feel like I play better when I take notes. Plus, it makes me read everything a lot more in-depth.
If you are town and you are lurking, expect to be under the gun during the game and expect me to not be very nice to you post-game. I will be weighing activity a lot heavier in my voting decision this game than I have in the past. You all are warned. If you are going to take a sieste the entire time and not participate, I am going to be on you until you do so.
That is all.
Are you seriously saying a first post in which he half contradicts himself is crafted? There was no thought to it at all. He just posted whatever was on his mind then left.
Then you can compare it to my general aggro..... You even mention that my posting is "careless" yet you also say that "Corazon's posting is careless - in contrast to you". What the heck........ This just doesn't make sense at all.
If you think I'm trying to find a weak target, do you consider yourself as a weak target?
Your posting is careless in that you don't care who your target is, as long as it isn't you or other scum.
You had to change target because if you kept sticking to Corazon and didn't address me you'd be screwed. You changed target because you saw the opportunity with thread sentiment changing against me, yes.
I'm gonna step back from posting on Xata since no one seems to be reading it anyway and everything's already been said.
On December 11 2013 01:58 bumatlarge wrote: Spaghetti man is pretty mafia. I'd lynch him if pandain was here. Kushmasta seems super silly. If you have to (/green) things this early that aren't questions to the host, you are playing badly.
I think Grack is too dumb to be scum. No sane scum would try to go after Rayn right now. He's wrong about Xatalos but I like the point on Spaghetticus in that he seems to try to look like he's contributing without contributing. In LXIII I instantly had a rock solid town read on him because he was too paranoid about everyone and mistrusting everything. The post Grack quoted of him shows a completely different approach to the game than he had in LXIII. Instead of being full of uncertainty and paranoia, he assaults Corazon and calls him bad rather than scum. He's being more carefree this game and overall less suspicious. Dun like it.
On December 11 2013 05:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: The problem is he is not really going after me. His posts about me have no other motive than trying to make me angry and therefore play bad. I don't think i am switching my vote off him today.
So you're just going to throw your vote away if he's not a lynch candidate today? Come on man. Talk to me about Spaghetticus.
On December 11 2013 05:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: The problem is he is not really going after me. His posts about me have no other motive than trying to make me angry and therefore play bad. I don't think i am switching my vote off him today.
So you're just going to throw your vote away if he's not a lynch candidate today? Come on man. Talk to me about Spaghetticus.
Actually my plan was to convince you guys into voting him but there is still 24h to go on this phase. Spaghetticus looks scummy for being overly defensive when people were just trying to get him into reading the thread and giving out reads. He always found some excuse to comment on something that did not make him go towards telling who is mafia.
Can you tell me exactly what you find suspicious of Grack? Is it that he voted you without pressuring you?
On December 11 2013 05:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: The problem is he is not really going after me. His posts about me have no other motive than trying to make me angry and therefore play bad. I don't think i am switching my vote off him today.
So you're just going to throw your vote away if he's not a lynch candidate today? Come on man. Talk to me about Spaghetticus.
Actually my plan was to convince you guys into voting him but there is still 24h to go on this phase. Spaghetticus looks scummy for being overly defensive when people were just trying to get him into reading the thread and giving out reads. He always found some excuse to comment on something that did not make him go towards telling who is mafia.
Can you tell me exactly what you find suspicious of Grack? Is it that he voted you without pressuring you?
The problem is he is not really going after me. His posts about me have no other motive than trying to make me angry and therefore play bad.
I don't know what purpose that serves or how he thinks he is helping the town. By telling me i am not allowed to call out people for shitting on other people because i played bad in another game? Why would someone who is town do that?
After checking his filter I can see where you're coming from. I can see a scum grack, but I also know that grack likes to troll. Picking a fight with you early on seems like a terrible idea as scum, but he skated by due to terrible ideas in LXIII too whilst being scum. I wouldn't oppose a Grack lynch at this point but I'm not convinced on it.
On December 11 2013 05:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: The problem is he is not really going after me. His posts about me have no other motive than trying to make me angry and therefore play bad. I don't think i am switching my vote off him today.
So you're just going to throw your vote away if he's not a lynch candidate today? Come on man. Talk to me about Spaghetticus.
Actually my plan was to convince you guys into voting him but there is still 24h to go on this phase. Spaghetticus looks scummy for being overly defensive when people were just trying to get him into reading the thread and giving out reads. He always found some excuse to comment on something that did not make him go towards telling who is mafia.
Can you tell me exactly what you find suspicious of Grack? Is it that he voted you without pressuring you?
He hasn't really done anything but this:
The problem is he is not really going after me. His posts about me have no other motive than trying to make me angry and therefore play bad.
I don't know what purpose that serves or how he thinks he is helping the town. By telling me i am not allowed to call out people for shitting on other people because i played bad in another game? Why would someone who is town do that?
After checking his filter I can see where you're coming from. I can see a scum grack, but I also know that grack likes to troll. Picking a fight with you early on seems like a terrible idea as scum, but he skated by due to terrible ideas in LXIII too whilst being scum. I wouldn't oppose a Grack lynch at this point but I'm not convinced on it.
Wait what. I didn't skate by for having terrible ideas in LXIII. I skated by for bussing half my team lol.
Well yeah, what I mean is you skated by with trolling because you happened to bus half your team as well. HF, I see a case that makes Bum hypocritical and bad, but not scum. I'd also appreciate it if scum stopped trying to get me lynched. It's not happening today Xata. I'm not scum for doubting my read.
On December 11 2013 05:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: The problem is he is not really going after me. His posts about me have no other motive than trying to make me angry and therefore play bad. I don't think i am switching my vote off him today.
So you're just going to throw your vote away if he's not a lynch candidate today? Come on man. Talk to me about Spaghetticus.
Actually my plan was to convince you guys into voting him but there is still 24h to go on this phase. Spaghetticus looks scummy for being overly defensive when people were just trying to get him into reading the thread and giving out reads. He always found some excuse to comment on something that did not make him go towards telling who is mafia.
Can you tell me exactly what you find suspicious of Grack? Is it that he voted you without pressuring you?
He hasn't really done anything but this:
The problem is he is not really going after me. His posts about me have no other motive than trying to make me angry and therefore play bad.
I don't know what purpose that serves or how he thinks he is helping the town. By telling me i am not allowed to call out people for shitting on other people because i played bad in another game? Why would someone who is town do that?
After checking his filter I can see where you're coming from. I can see a scum grack, but I also know that grack likes to troll. Picking a fight with you early on seems like a terrible idea as scum, but he skated by due to terrible ideas in LXIII too whilst being scum. I wouldn't oppose a Grack lynch at this point but I'm not convinced on it.
Wait what. I didn't skate by for having terrible ideas in LXIII. I skated by for bussing half my team lol.
Well yeah, what I mean is you skated by with trolling because you happened to bus half your team as well. HF, I see a case that makes Bum hypocritical and bad, but not scum. I'd also appreciate it if scum stopped trying to get me lynched. It's not happening today Xata. I'm not scum for doubting my read.
For a player that is trying to get people to play town in an optimal way do you not think it strange that he choses to be hypocritical on a person that is coming under heavy pressure?
No, I just think he's bad and hasn't read properly.
On December 11 2013 05:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote: [quote] So you're just going to throw your vote away if he's not a lynch candidate today? Come on man. Talk to me about Spaghetticus.
Actually my plan was to convince you guys into voting him but there is still 24h to go on this phase. Spaghetticus looks scummy for being overly defensive when people were just trying to get him into reading the thread and giving out reads. He always found some excuse to comment on something that did not make him go towards telling who is mafia.
Can you tell me exactly what you find suspicious of Grack? Is it that he voted you without pressuring you?
He hasn't really done anything but this:
The problem is he is not really going after me. His posts about me have no other motive than trying to make me angry and therefore play bad.
I don't know what purpose that serves or how he thinks he is helping the town. By telling me i am not allowed to call out people for shitting on other people because i played bad in another game? Why would someone who is town do that?
After checking his filter I can see where you're coming from. I can see a scum grack, but I also know that grack likes to troll. Picking a fight with you early on seems like a terrible idea as scum, but he skated by due to terrible ideas in LXIII too whilst being scum. I wouldn't oppose a Grack lynch at this point but I'm not convinced on it.
Wait what. I didn't skate by for having terrible ideas in LXIII. I skated by for bussing half my team lol.
Well yeah, what I mean is you skated by with trolling because you happened to bus half your team as well. HF, I see a case that makes Bum hypocritical and bad, but not scum. I'd also appreciate it if scum stopped trying to get me lynched. It's not happening today Xata. I'm not scum for doubting my read.
For a player that is trying to get people to play town in an optimal way do you not think it strange that he choses to be hypocritical on a person that is coming under heavy pressure?
No, I just think he's bad and hasn't read properly.
He has more overall posts than you do, don't you think he could town better than that at that point?
Post counts say nothing. Rayn posted a shitton during LXIII but he got lynched as town whereas I shot scum and suspected a second. I haven't seen anything that makes me think of bum as scum rather than bad.
On December 11 2013 08:14 Holyflare wrote: How can you possibly talk all about pushing scum agenda's in regards to Xatalos but whenever another person that displays blatant contradictions to his own actions appears it's downplayed to being bad/hotheaded? Why couldn't Xatalos be bad? Scum agenda is to push people off others with reasoning that appeases people, a player went actively against their own conditions to do this and it's just because he is bad?
Since when do contradictions make someone scum? I contradict myself all the time. It's scum that are worried about contradicting themselves because they don't know if they can explain it. I feel like you're searching for scum in the wrong way and nothing you posted in your analysis leads me to believe that he is scum.
On December 11 2013 08:14 Holyflare wrote: How can you possibly talk all about pushing scum agenda's in regards to Xatalos but whenever another person that displays blatant contradictions to his own actions appears it's downplayed to being bad/hotheaded? Why couldn't Xatalos be bad? Scum agenda is to push people off others with reasoning that appeases people, a player went actively against their own conditions to do this and it's just because he is bad?
Since when do contradictions make someone scum? I contradict myself all the time. It's scum that are worried about contradicting themselves because they don't know if they can explain it. I feel like you're searching for scum in the wrong way and nothing you posted in your analysis leads me to believe that he is scum.
I don't think you understand. Contradictions in a normal play such as changing a read is fine, that can be seen as towny. However, almost half of his posts actively STATE that he dislikes to use meta but then he defends a player - who has a lot of votes - based on them using meta, whereas previously he dismissed everyone that has used it. That is an unacceptable contradiction.
Okay, that's different, you're right. If you had summarized your case in this manner I'd have followed your thought process more clearly. I'll reread bum's filter and see for myself.
I decided to take a quick look at Bum's other game in PYP too and searched for meta, zero results compared to four results this game in two pages of filter. It's interesting to me that he made a big deal out of it in the opening of this game when it wasn't a factor in his previous game. That said, his previous game which shall not be discussed further as it's still ongoing is a themed game, so there's more to talk about initially. I still think it's odd though, especially when he's inconsistent on it. The rest of his filter is fluff which doesn't persuade me to one side or the other. I'd lean red on him.
Won't be there for much of tomorrow but I'll try to be there at deadline.
On December 11 2013 08:34 Alakaslam wrote: Spaghetticus...
Your handle, coupled with your posts this time about, remind me of the stuff I would gladly remove from my freezer, before I discovered I was a celiac...
I never liked my food frozen, however. See, I was loth to use a microwave for this reason.
Time... To burn. Fires of the Titanic, unite!
##Vote: Spaghetticus
While I like who you voted, I would like to hear the reasons why you voted for him. Not to be a buzzkill, but preferably in a serious manner.
Don't have much time now but I see support for a Spaghetti lynch and I'm happy to join in on that. Bandwagon powers activate! ##Unvote ##Vote Spaghetticus
On December 12 2013 06:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't think purple comes out suspicious of voting for Spag. He clearly wanted to lynch Cora and consolidated on a target he felt was more scummy. I liked his thought process on what he said about Cora, especially about the notes.
Artanis on the other hand... The first notion of Spag in his filter is the second last post of his before the vote.. This:
On December 11 2013 08:34 Alakaslam wrote: Spaghetticus...
Your handle, coupled with your posts this time about, remind me of the stuff I would gladly remove from my freezer, before I discovered I was a celiac...
I never liked my food frozen, however. See, I was loth to use a microwave for this reason.
Time... To burn. Fires of the Titanic, unite!
##Vote: Spaghetticus
While I like who you voted, I would like to hear the reasons why you voted for him. Not to be a buzzkill, but preferably in a serious manner.
I am pretty sure Artanis is scum. He's far better than this as town.
Hey I'm back, also this is wrong. I mentioned him earlier.
On December 11 2013 05:16 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I think Grack is too dumb to be scum. No sane scum would try to go after Rayn right now. He's wrong about Xatalos but I like the point on Spaghetticus in that he seems to try to look like he's contributing without contributing. In LXIII I instantly had a rock solid town read on him because he was too paranoid about everyone and mistrusting everything. The post Grack quoted of him shows a completely different approach to the game than he had in LXIII. Instead of being full of uncertainty and paranoia, he assaults Corazon and calls him bad rather than scum. He's being more carefree this game and overall less suspicious. Dun like it.
This was before anyone was on spaghetti, but the attempt at misrepresenting my filter is appreciated.
On December 12 2013 20:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: Holyflare why exactly do you think Artanis' vote on Spag had some reasoning? That was definitely the scummiest vote on D1 of all of them.
On December 12 2013 20:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: Holyflare why exactly do you think Artanis' vote on Spag had some reasoning? That was definitely the scummiest vote on D1 of all of them.
You really aren't reading are you?
What's there to read? You barely mentioned Spag and then eagerly locked your vote on him. Do you even have reasoning for your vote?
Have you opened my filter or did you just presume what Rayn said was correct? I even quoted it again earlier.
On December 12 2013 20:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: Holyflare why exactly do you think Artanis' vote on Spag had some reasoning? That was definitely the scummiest vote on D1 of all of them.
You really aren't reading are you?
You are right. You also had at least one post earlier where you state you find Spag's posting townie. You never try to do anything with that suspicion, and you definitely did not care about the lynch on D1.
So you opened my filter and you managed to miss the post WHICH I QUOTED AGAIN again? Are you trying to make me angry? Here it is a third time for your convenience.
On December 11 2013 05:16 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I think Grack is too dumb to be scum. No sane scum would try to go after Rayn right now. He's wrong about Xatalos but I like the point on Spaghetticus in that he seems to try to look like he's contributing without contributing. In LXIII I instantly had a rock solid town read on him because he was too paranoid about everyone and mistrusting everything. The post Grack quoted of him shows a completely different approach to the game than he had in LXIII. Instead of being full of uncertainty and paranoia, he assaults Corazon and calls him bad rather than scum. He's being more carefree this game and overall less suspicious. Dun like it.
I couldn't care about the lynch on D1 past the first 24 hours because I was out all day. I saw one of the people I found suspicious being voted a lot when I checked in briefly so I switched my vote. I could've also just peaced out all day and leave my vote on Xatalos and make it meaningless. Do you think that would be less suspicious?
On December 12 2013 20:44 Holyflare wrote: Stop arguing about this needless crap, you are arguing with the person who you think is scummy, what good will that do? Artanis what do you think of my points on cora now? You seemed to be coming around to the idea that he was getting more and more scummy when I interacted with you earlier.
I don't think Cora and Xatalos are likely to be scum together. I find Xatalos highly likely to be scum. If Xata turns out to somehow be town then maybe. He definitely doesn't look good.
On December 12 2013 20:48 Holyflare wrote: Well what do you think about the points. In detail please.
Ever since making a massive case on a town BC as town in LXI I don't believe in big cases anymore. There's few things that separate someone from being bad and being scum. I can see Cora simply being defensive in saying that he has notes as a way to relieve pressure. Discrepancies like calling Spag, purple, and VA his biggest 3 reads then those not being the same three in his notes leads me to believe he's being careless, not scum. Scum aren't careless. I don't have meta experience with Cora. You say you remember him playing differently in a town game, being far more proactive. This is only relevant if he's rolled scum and played differently in that regard. Have you played a game with scum Cora, and is it similar to this one?
His vote on Spaghetti is bad, but if everyone that voted poorly was scum we'd have a lotta scum this game.
On December 12 2013 20:57 Xatalos wrote: It's still more likely for scum to vote poorly than for town.
What kind of a defense is that?
Actually if we look at LXIII scum voted a lot better than town. Being right or wrong has no bearing on your alignment.
you're wrong, the entire scum team could be found by analysing the BC wagon
What I mean is that being correct doesn't mean you're more or less likely to be scum. It's more complicated then that.
On December 12 2013 21:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: Artanis who exaclty in your opinion voted poorly?
Anyone joining in on the bandwagon despite having a townread on Spaghetti before the bandwagon began. I haven't gone back to check out who yet.
i've done that all for you -.-
Wasn't your list incomplete? You said so yourself that you hadn't checked it yet for some.
On December 12 2013 21:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you haven't done that yet how can you say "a lot of people" as you seem to not know if there were a lot of people or not?
When so many people voted for Spaghetti despite only one person voting for him early on and that being Alakaslam, you can be pretty sure about it.
On December 12 2013 21:09 Holyflare wrote: question goes to Xatalos too
Corazon. kush's vote wasn't good, but I can understand wanting to lynch someone other than Alakaslam for the information. purple's vote actually wasn't that bad, when I rethought the events. It seems reasonable to consolidate when your preferred lynch isn't happening.
Are you honestly defending a "lynch for information"? Alakaslam wasn't even up for contention anymore if I'm reconstruing the situation properly. It was VA against Spaghetti. How did Spaghetti net us more 'information' than VA would?
On December 12 2013 20:57 Xatalos wrote: It's still more likely for scum to vote poorly than for town.
What kind of a defense is that?
Actually if we look at LXIII scum voted a lot better than town. Being right or wrong has no bearing on your alignment.
you're wrong, the entire scum team could be found by analysing the BC wagon
What I mean is that being correct doesn't mean you're more or less likely to be scum. It's more complicated then that.
On December 12 2013 21:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: Artanis who exaclty in your opinion voted poorly?
Anyone joining in on the bandwagon despite having a townread on Spaghetti before the bandwagon began. I haven't gone back to check out who yet.
i've done that all for you -.-
Wasn't your list incomplete? You said so yourself that you hadn't checked it yet for some.
On December 12 2013 21:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you haven't done that yet how can you say "a lot of people" as you seem to not know if there were a lot of people or not?
When so many people voted for Spaghetti despite only one person voting for him early on and that being Alakaslam, you can be pretty sure about it.
Wow, this is so scummy. Can anyone else see why?
Please explain exactly why because other than being somewhat presumptuous I don't see why.
On December 12 2013 21:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: Artanis threw a lazy ass vote and his reasoning he is giving now doesn't look like it's lining up with his actions (he is saying he had reasons to believe Spag was scum while he had clearly not read the thread (or is lying now) - had he said "i consolidated" it would have been okay, but he is trying to explain his actions to look like something they clearly were not)
I hadn't read up the thread on the topic of the second 24 hours, but I had plenty of reason to suspect Spaghetti from D1 which I quoted in my filter. I instantly read him town in LXIII and found his behaviour vastly different in this game. His approach, his lack of similar paranoia, his everything. I'm pretty sure on my Cora town read. He seems far too frustrated to feign as scum and is trying to come up with contributions. Not really interested in VA either. Grack looks bad to me for trying to make a joke like that look serious and start shit up. Coupled with his indecipherable vote on Rayn makes him a good lynch target. I hadn't read up on Vayne yet, but reading JJD's case on him I'd be happy to see him hang. not going to repeat the points, JJD mentioned them well. Kush looks pretty bad too. He's outright refusing to give out reads supposedly for this reason.
On December 12 2013 02:12 kushm4sta wrote: ive been trying to come up with scummy shit to say so i dont get nk
In the meantime, he's contributed nothing to town and seems to be doing everything he can to deflect people from reading him, like this.
On December 12 2013 02:14 purpletrator wrote: hey kush, why did/do you have me as green?
why do you care?
He's been blatant about not giving out reads. His vote on Spaghetti was "for information", and he somehow knows Alakaslam and Purple are town.
On December 12 2013 00:02 kushm4sta wrote: I think scum are going to make more obvious cases and attack generalized scumtells, like wishy washiness. Or they would go after players like alakaslam or purple (easy targets). Speghetti's case is just odd and I can't see scum ever making it.
Wouldn't mind seeing Kush hang. My only qualm with it is that Xatalos was happy to lynch him too. Meh. Speaking of Xatalos. I'll repeat my points on him again, with a few bonus ones for good measure. -Threw shit on everyone until he found someone that it stuck on, showing disregard for who gets lynched as long as it isn't him. -First said I might've had a good point on him that he started too fast, then proceeds to OMGUS me later despite nothing having changed. Slight town read at first, then suddenly switches to scumread and then top scumread. -Randomly unvotes me in favour of Purpletrator despite him not having gained any traction either. First tunnels me into oblivion, then randomly stops giving a shit from one moment on the other. His interactions with me make no sense and he seems to care more about what town thinks of them then actually convincing anyone. -Switches up to Spaghetticus despite half his projected scumteam voting for Spaghetti.
On December 12 2013 20:57 Xatalos wrote: It's still more likely for scum to vote poorly than for town.
What kind of a defense is that?
Actually if we look at LXIII scum voted a lot better than town. Being right or wrong has no bearing on your alignment.
you're wrong, the entire scum team could be found by analysing the BC wagon
What I mean is that being correct doesn't mean you're more or less likely to be scum. It's more complicated then that.
On December 12 2013 21:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: Artanis who exaclty in your opinion voted poorly?
Anyone joining in on the bandwagon despite having a townread on Spaghetti before the bandwagon began. I haven't gone back to check out who yet.
i've done that all for you -.-
Wasn't your list incomplete? You said so yourself that you hadn't checked it yet for some.
On December 12 2013 21:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you haven't done that yet how can you say "a lot of people" as you seem to not know if there were a lot of people or not?
When so many people voted for Spaghetti despite only one person voting for him early on and that being Alakaslam, you can be pretty sure about it.
Wow, this is so scummy. Can anyone else see why?
I'd like to hear this one.
You somehow missed this the first time around? Someone commenting on your top scumspect? It seems like you just have two modes, the mode where you tunnel me and the mode where you randomly stop to not look like you're tunneling. Your suspicions are fake and you will burn.
Jar why do you think Kush is okay other than voting for Spag? He's intentionally made himself very difficult to read, which can only correspond with a scum agenda.
On December 13 2013 06:09 VayneAuthority wrote: How can corazon be scum? He's pretty much confirmed vig now after his claim and the HF shot. no one else would do that.
This was my thought as well but I wasn't certain if vigi only had one shot so I didn't want to say it yet. Cora why couldn't you just shoot Xata instead?
On December 13 2013 06:15 VayneAuthority wrote: the tunnel continues. down syndrome tends to have that affect
You do realize that Downs Syndrome is an affliction that affects real people. Maybe you should consider the possibility that some of the people reading this has friends or family that are affected by it before you starting throwing it around as a insult. Don't be so ignorant.
maybe you should realize how retarded you sound
If you keep this attitude up I'd be up for policy lynching you. The fact that you have a decent chance of flipping scum is a bonus. Show some fucking respect.
On December 13 2013 06:34 Xatalos wrote: I do have to agree on the point that it's not right to insult mentally ill, but it's hardly grounds for a policy lynch.
I've got plenty of friends that are mentally ill. It's pretty equal to discriminating on sexual orientation and all that. Worst part of it is that he's unwilling to apologize over it. Fuck that attitude.
Also as Xigxag and JarJar indicates he has too much knowledge.
Just one point: It was a town vigi that shot HF, not scum. It could be that he was doublestacked, but we don't know that. Makes sense if it's Vayne though because he 'knows' that HF got doublestacked.
On December 13 2013 06:34 Xatalos wrote: I do have to agree on the point that it's not right to insult mentally ill, but it's hardly grounds for a policy lynch.
I've got plenty of friends that are mentally ill. It's pretty equal to discriminating on sexual orientation and all that. Worst part of it is that he's unwilling to apologize over it. Fuck that attitude.
my best friend is black, you can't use that kind of language.
...get over it and read Vayne on his posts. Not his insulting use of the word downs.
I'm happy to lynch him over his posts too. Already indicated my suspicions in my big post earlier. Don't really have anything to add. He knows too much and he's chased a mafia agenda in how he's approached lynches. I do feel like Xatalos is more likely to flip scum though.
On December 13 2013 06:46 LSB wrote: Yeah I can't even pretend to be able to read VA with all this flame going on. I think we honestly should just go onto a different topic until the parties involved can think clearly. Giant flame arguments do nothing for the town
Plutarch, Rayn, Kush, and anyone else here please comment on my points regarding Xatalos. I don't like that he's not being discussed at all.
On December 13 2013 05:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Speaking of Xatalos. I'll repeat my points on him again, with a few bonus ones for good measure. -Threw shit on everyone until he found someone that it stuck on, showing disregard for who gets lynched as long as it isn't him. -First said I might've had a good point on him that he started too fast, then proceeds to OMGUS me later despite nothing having changed. Slight town read at first, then suddenly switches to scumread and then top scumread. -Randomly unvotes me in favour of Purpletrator despite him not having gained any traction either. First tunnels me into oblivion, then randomly stops giving a shit from one moment on the other. His interactions with me make no sense and he seems to care more about what town thinks of them then actually convincing anyone. -Switches up to Spaghetticus despite half his projected scumteam voting for Spaghetti.
Could we please lynch this scum already?
Surprisingly I agree with Kush. Rayn is attacking one of the only players he still had a strong townread on early on for reasons I find incomprehensible. Plutarch is pretty much the most townie guy around right now, and he's attacked for rehashing reads. Rayn's intent seems to be to make no one trust eachother to prevent town from cooperating. He's also called both myself and Xatalos scum, but mentioned before that he doesn't think we can both be scum. Fast forward to today and he hasn't mentioned either of us in any real way. He hasn't tried to get to know our alignment despite calling us both scummy and at the same time saying we can't both be scum (which I'd also like an explanation for). Rayn knows too much and seems to have a scum agenda on his mind. He also hasn't answered what that 'very scummy thing' was that he quoted despite both myself and Xatalos asking what it is.
On December 13 2013 21:54 kushm4sta wrote: Artanis your cases are usually good. This one was not. Wonder why hmmm
How about actually commenting on the content?
no quotes i dont see why any of those things make him scum. All i see is you pejoratively describing townplay.
Because he's not chasing the people he read as scum. He's going after whomever he thinks he can paint off as scum. The fact that he completely ignored myself and Xatalos all of a sudden despite considering both of us scum proves it. He doesn't even care about trying to convince others that his scumspects should be lynched.
On December 13 2013 22:07 kushm4sta wrote: artanis i think it's called pressuring
It's not just pressuring. He's considered me a scumread for most of the game yet he's just suddenly stopped giving a shit about me. He's never actively tried to push for my lynch. It's posturing, and it's fake.
I'm not sure LSB is a good lynch. Avoiding responsibility seems to be the only thing he's done. He's too blatantly talking about scum agenda's and what he thinks scum would do. It feels more like he's trying to place himself into the position of a scum player to catch them. Hypocrisy also isn't something I'd ascribe to scum players alone. Look at Cora. Called out players for not being allowed to be inactive, then said he'd be inactive in the same post. The case on LSB doesn't make him scum imo.
I've already said what I think about Rayn and Xatalos, but I don't know what your view on Xatalos is Plutarch. Could you inform me?
On December 14 2013 03:24 kushm4sta wrote: LOL plz plz do not stoke the fire that lies inside corazon's butt. We know he's town. He is a master troll. The best way to fight a troll is to ignore it.
I came around to artanis being town. His push for xatalos seems really genuine, and I think it might be right. Still need to read xatalos' filter, but let me just say I am super unimpressed with his recent long post. If you look it actually contains deceptively little content.
On December 13 2013 20:20 sidesprang wrote: Ok was busy yesterday, had exam today. Read the thread and i'm now starting on filters.
What I've noted so far is, that I noticed people wanted to try to find mafia from looking at the voting pattern. Which I think is a valid way of doing things.
One thing that caught my mind was. There was deffo some suspicious votes happening, I think we all agree on that. But for one of those suspicious votes to actually be a mafia, wont VA have to be mafia. Like I mean no mafia member should vote like that unless they try to save his teammate.
So my thought is
VA = Mafia -> susp votes = mafia VA = Town-> susp votes = town
Of course there is also the possibility that its just bad play in general. But I think the link is worth to take note of.
Only read purps filter for today, but I find that one very scummy in general. He is not really doing much. He said he had a town read on cora, then 2 hours after he proceeds to vote on him. I think it had something to do with the notes. I'll look more into why he did that flip later. And he is also defending VA a lot. All that together with the very weak reason for voting spag makes him very scummy in my eyes.
I wont cast any votes untill I get to read the rest, but I need some sleep first.
Not necessarily. Scum can make suspicious votes even if it's town vs town. Naturally the suspicious votes are even more suspicious if VA is scum.
On December 13 2013 21:49 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Plutarch, Rayn, Kush, and anyone else here please comment on my points regarding Xatalos. I don't like that he's not being discussed at all.
On December 13 2013 05:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Speaking of Xatalos. I'll repeat my points on him again, with a few bonus ones for good measure. -Threw shit on everyone until he found someone that it stuck on, showing disregard for who gets lynched as long as it isn't him. -First said I might've had a good point on him that he started too fast, then proceeds to OMGUS me later despite nothing having changed. Slight town read at first, then suddenly switches to scumread and then top scumread. -Randomly unvotes me in favour of Purpletrator despite him not having gained any traction either. First tunnels me into oblivion, then randomly stops giving a shit from one moment on the other. His interactions with me make no sense and he seems to care more about what town thinks of them then actually convincing anyone. -Switches up to Spaghetticus despite half his projected scumteam voting for Spaghetti.
Could we please lynch this scum already?
Surprisingly I agree with Kush. Rayn is attacking one of the only players he still had a strong townread on early on for reasons I find incomprehensible. Plutarch is pretty much the most townie guy around right now, and he's attacked for rehashing reads. Rayn's intent seems to be to make no one trust eachother to prevent town from cooperating. He's also called both myself and Xatalos scum, but mentioned before that he doesn't think we can both be scum. Fast forward to today and he hasn't mentioned either of us in any real way. He hasn't tried to get to know our alignment despite calling us both scummy and at the same time saying we can't both be scum (which I'd also like an explanation for). Rayn knows too much and seems to have a scum agenda on his mind. He also hasn't answered what that 'very scummy thing' was that he quoted despite both myself and Xatalos asking what it is.
These are pretty much non-points / things I have already explained (and Artanis clearly hasn't read). Some of the points are even townie for me (overall aggression, generating discussion, pressuring a lot). That's how I've basically always started the game as town (and recently as scum too -> pretty much null). Really quite bad reasons for wanting to lynch me #1. Incidentally, this "case" is a decent additional reason to lynch Artanis.
How many would be up for lynching Artanis today? rayn, you at least mentioned that Artanis was scummy N1. Please, get off Plutarch and lynch a much scummier player (Plutarch isn't even scummy, and it puzzles me that you're going for him).
On December 13 2013 05:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Holyflare the Medic has been shot by an ass-bullet! bumatlarge the Civilian has been eaten by Sebastian!
Holyflare's death doesn't give that much new info in itself, but the more important part is that it confirms Corazon as a (misguided) Vigi. Regardless, he's town, which makes Artanis look (very slightly) better and probably me/Plutarch worse. But what's done is done, and it's time to move on. (as a sidenote, from the shock that this Vigi shot caused, I probably won't be trusting Vigilantes to make sensible choices in the future).
bum's death is a big mystery to me, since he did pretty much nothing all game. Does anyone have an idea about why the SK would shoot him? Maybe he thought bum was scum? In that case there might be some merit in going through who suspected bum.
- - - -
Other players who would be decent lynches are purple and LSB.
- purple's vote wasn't that scummy, but he's been lurking and posting useless one-liners all game... and now we also know that Corazon is town, which makes purple slightly more likely scum
- LSB has been throwing his vote around meaninglessly all game... hasn't truly pushed anything, just bandwagoned or thrown his vote here or there... and his Spag vote was actually about as scummy as that of Artanis
VA, kush, Grackaroni and sidesprang aren't looking good either. VA has been just targeting the easiest lynches, kush happily lynched his own townread, Grackaroni's vote was pretty scummy too and sidesprang has barely posted enough to avoid being policy lynched.
I think we should start from Artanis and continue from there. There are a lot of scummy players, but it should get easier when one is flipped.
On December 14 2013 20:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm not sure LSB is a good lynch. Avoiding responsibility seems to be the only thing he's done. He's too blatantly talking about scum agenda's and what he thinks scum would do. It feels more like he's trying to place himself into the position of a scum player to catch them. Hypocrisy also isn't something I'd ascribe to scum players alone. Look at Cora. Called out players for not being allowed to be inactive, then said he'd be inactive in the same post. The case on LSB doesn't make him scum imo.
I've already said what I think about Rayn and Xatalos, but I don't know what your view on Xatalos is Plutarch. Could you inform me?
On December 14 2013 03:24 kushm4sta wrote: LOL plz plz do not stoke the fire that lies inside corazon's butt. We know he's town. He is a master troll. The best way to fight a troll is to ignore it.
I came around to artanis being town. His push for xatalos seems really genuine, and I think it might be right. Still need to read xatalos' filter, but let me just say I am super unimpressed with his recent long post. If you look it actually contains deceptively little content.
On December 13 2013 20:20 sidesprang wrote: Ok was busy yesterday, had exam today. Read the thread and i'm now starting on filters.
What I've noted so far is, that I noticed people wanted to try to find mafia from looking at the voting pattern. Which I think is a valid way of doing things.
One thing that caught my mind was. There was deffo some suspicious votes happening, I think we all agree on that. But for one of those suspicious votes to actually be a mafia, wont VA have to be mafia. Like I mean no mafia member should vote like that unless they try to save his teammate.
So my thought is
VA = Mafia -> susp votes = mafia VA = Town-> susp votes = town
Of course there is also the possibility that its just bad play in general. But I think the link is worth to take note of.
Only read purps filter for today, but I find that one very scummy in general. He is not really doing much. He said he had a town read on cora, then 2 hours after he proceeds to vote on him. I think it had something to do with the notes. I'll look more into why he did that flip later. And he is also defending VA a lot. All that together with the very weak reason for voting spag makes him very scummy in my eyes.
I wont cast any votes untill I get to read the rest, but I need some sleep first.
Not necessarily. Scum can make suspicious votes even if it's town vs town. Naturally the suspicious votes are even more suspicious if VA is scum.
On December 13 2013 21:49 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Plutarch, Rayn, Kush, and anyone else here please comment on my points regarding Xatalos. I don't like that he's not being discussed at all.
On December 13 2013 05:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Speaking of Xatalos. I'll repeat my points on him again, with a few bonus ones for good measure. -Threw shit on everyone until he found someone that it stuck on, showing disregard for who gets lynched as long as it isn't him. -First said I might've had a good point on him that he started too fast, then proceeds to OMGUS me later despite nothing having changed. Slight town read at first, then suddenly switches to scumread and then top scumread. -Randomly unvotes me in favour of Purpletrator despite him not having gained any traction either. First tunnels me into oblivion, then randomly stops giving a shit from one moment on the other. His interactions with me make no sense and he seems to care more about what town thinks of them then actually convincing anyone. -Switches up to Spaghetticus despite half his projected scumteam voting for Spaghetti.
Could we please lynch this scum already?
Surprisingly I agree with Kush. Rayn is attacking one of the only players he still had a strong townread on early on for reasons I find incomprehensible. Plutarch is pretty much the most townie guy around right now, and he's attacked for rehashing reads. Rayn's intent seems to be to make no one trust eachother to prevent town from cooperating. He's also called both myself and Xatalos scum, but mentioned before that he doesn't think we can both be scum. Fast forward to today and he hasn't mentioned either of us in any real way. He hasn't tried to get to know our alignment despite calling us both scummy and at the same time saying we can't both be scum (which I'd also like an explanation for). Rayn knows too much and seems to have a scum agenda on his mind. He also hasn't answered what that 'very scummy thing' was that he quoted despite both myself and Xatalos asking what it is.
These are pretty much non-points / things I have already explained (and Artanis clearly hasn't read). Some of the points are even townie for me (overall aggression, generating discussion, pressuring a lot). That's how I've basically always started the game as town (and recently as scum too -> pretty much null). Really quite bad reasons for wanting to lynch me #1. Incidentally, this "case" is a decent additional reason to lynch Artanis.
How many would be up for lynching Artanis today? rayn, you at least mentioned that Artanis was scummy N1. Please, get off Plutarch and lynch a much scummier player (Plutarch isn't even scummy, and it puzzles me that you're going for him).
On December 13 2013 05:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Holyflare the Medic has been shot by an ass-bullet! bumatlarge the Civilian has been eaten by Sebastian!
Holyflare's death doesn't give that much new info in itself, but the more important part is that it confirms Corazon as a (misguided) Vigi. Regardless, he's town, which makes Artanis look (very slightly) better and probably me/Plutarch worse. But what's done is done, and it's time to move on. (as a sidenote, from the shock that this Vigi shot caused, I probably won't be trusting Vigilantes to make sensible choices in the future).
bum's death is a big mystery to me, since he did pretty much nothing all game. Does anyone have an idea about why the SK would shoot him? Maybe he thought bum was scum? In that case there might be some merit in going through who suspected bum.
- - - -
Other players who would be decent lynches are purple and LSB.
- purple's vote wasn't that scummy, but he's been lurking and posting useless one-liners all game... and now we also know that Corazon is town, which makes purple slightly more likely scum
- LSB has been throwing his vote around meaninglessly all game... hasn't truly pushed anything, just bandwagoned or thrown his vote here or there... and his Spag vote was actually about as scummy as that of Artanis
VA, kush, Grackaroni and sidesprang aren't looking good either. VA has been just targeting the easiest lynches, kush happily lynched his own townread, Grackaroni's vote was pretty scummy too and sidesprang has barely posted enough to avoid being policy lynched.
I think we should start from Artanis and continue from there. There are a lot of scummy players, but it should get easier when one is flipped.
So yeah sorry for calling your case bad artanis.
Glad you came around bb <3
Well, this makes me a bit more worried about LSB again. That's such a wishy-washy stance.
How is it Wishy-Washy? I'm pretty clear in that I don't want to lynch him right now.
On December 14 2013 20:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm not sure LSB is a good lynch. Avoiding responsibility seems to be the only thing he's done. He's too blatantly talking about scum agenda's and what he thinks scum would do. It feels more like he's trying to place himself into the position of a scum player to catch them. Hypocrisy also isn't something I'd ascribe to scum players alone. Look at Cora. Called out players for not being allowed to be inactive, then said he'd be inactive in the same post. The case on LSB doesn't make him scum imo.
I've already said what I think about Rayn and Xatalos, but I don't know what your view on Xatalos is Plutarch. Could you inform me?
On December 14 2013 03:24 kushm4sta wrote: LOL plz plz do not stoke the fire that lies inside corazon's butt. We know he's town. He is a master troll. The best way to fight a troll is to ignore it.
I came around to artanis being town. His push for xatalos seems really genuine, and I think it might be right. Still need to read xatalos' filter, but let me just say I am super unimpressed with his recent long post. If you look it actually contains deceptively little content.
On December 13 2013 20:20 sidesprang wrote: Ok was busy yesterday, had exam today. Read the thread and i'm now starting on filters.
What I've noted so far is, that I noticed people wanted to try to find mafia from looking at the voting pattern. Which I think is a valid way of doing things.
One thing that caught my mind was. There was deffo some suspicious votes happening, I think we all agree on that. But for one of those suspicious votes to actually be a mafia, wont VA have to be mafia. Like I mean no mafia member should vote like that unless they try to save his teammate.
So my thought is
VA = Mafia -> susp votes = mafia VA = Town-> susp votes = town
Of course there is also the possibility that its just bad play in general. But I think the link is worth to take note of.
Only read purps filter for today, but I find that one very scummy in general. He is not really doing much. He said he had a town read on cora, then 2 hours after he proceeds to vote on him. I think it had something to do with the notes. I'll look more into why he did that flip later. And he is also defending VA a lot. All that together with the very weak reason for voting spag makes him very scummy in my eyes.
I wont cast any votes untill I get to read the rest, but I need some sleep first.
Not necessarily. Scum can make suspicious votes even if it's town vs town. Naturally the suspicious votes are even more suspicious if VA is scum.
On December 13 2013 21:49 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Plutarch, Rayn, Kush, and anyone else here please comment on my points regarding Xatalos. I don't like that he's not being discussed at all.
On December 13 2013 05:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Speaking of Xatalos. I'll repeat my points on him again, with a few bonus ones for good measure. -Threw shit on everyone until he found someone that it stuck on, showing disregard for who gets lynched as long as it isn't him. -First said I might've had a good point on him that he started too fast, then proceeds to OMGUS me later despite nothing having changed. Slight town read at first, then suddenly switches to scumread and then top scumread. -Randomly unvotes me in favour of Purpletrator despite him not having gained any traction either. First tunnels me into oblivion, then randomly stops giving a shit from one moment on the other. His interactions with me make no sense and he seems to care more about what town thinks of them then actually convincing anyone. -Switches up to Spaghetticus despite half his projected scumteam voting for Spaghetti.
Could we please lynch this scum already?
Surprisingly I agree with Kush. Rayn is attacking one of the only players he still had a strong townread on early on for reasons I find incomprehensible. Plutarch is pretty much the most townie guy around right now, and he's attacked for rehashing reads. Rayn's intent seems to be to make no one trust eachother to prevent town from cooperating. He's also called both myself and Xatalos scum, but mentioned before that he doesn't think we can both be scum. Fast forward to today and he hasn't mentioned either of us in any real way. He hasn't tried to get to know our alignment despite calling us both scummy and at the same time saying we can't both be scum (which I'd also like an explanation for). Rayn knows too much and seems to have a scum agenda on his mind. He also hasn't answered what that 'very scummy thing' was that he quoted despite both myself and Xatalos asking what it is.
These are pretty much non-points / things I have already explained (and Artanis clearly hasn't read). Some of the points are even townie for me (overall aggression, generating discussion, pressuring a lot). That's how I've basically always started the game as town (and recently as scum too -> pretty much null). Really quite bad reasons for wanting to lynch me #1. Incidentally, this "case" is a decent additional reason to lynch Artanis.
How many would be up for lynching Artanis today? rayn, you at least mentioned that Artanis was scummy N1. Please, get off Plutarch and lynch a much scummier player (Plutarch isn't even scummy, and it puzzles me that you're going for him).
On December 13 2013 05:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Holyflare the Medic has been shot by an ass-bullet! bumatlarge the Civilian has been eaten by Sebastian!
Holyflare's death doesn't give that much new info in itself, but the more important part is that it confirms Corazon as a (misguided) Vigi. Regardless, he's town, which makes Artanis look (very slightly) better and probably me/Plutarch worse. But what's done is done, and it's time to move on. (as a sidenote, from the shock that this Vigi shot caused, I probably won't be trusting Vigilantes to make sensible choices in the future).
bum's death is a big mystery to me, since he did pretty much nothing all game. Does anyone have an idea about why the SK would shoot him? Maybe he thought bum was scum? In that case there might be some merit in going through who suspected bum.
- - - -
Other players who would be decent lynches are purple and LSB.
- purple's vote wasn't that scummy, but he's been lurking and posting useless one-liners all game... and now we also know that Corazon is town, which makes purple slightly more likely scum
- LSB has been throwing his vote around meaninglessly all game... hasn't truly pushed anything, just bandwagoned or thrown his vote here or there... and his Spag vote was actually about as scummy as that of Artanis
VA, kush, Grackaroni and sidesprang aren't looking good either. VA has been just targeting the easiest lynches, kush happily lynched his own townread, Grackaroni's vote was pretty scummy too and sidesprang has barely posted enough to avoid being policy lynched.
I think we should start from Artanis and continue from there. There are a lot of scummy players, but it should get easier when one is flipped.
So yeah sorry for calling your case bad artanis.
Glad you came around bb <3
Well, this makes me a bit more worried about LSB again. That's such a wishy-washy stance.
How is it Wishy-Washy? I'm pretty clear in that I don't want to lynch him right now.
Judging from that post, your stance was more like "eh, I don't really think he's a good lynch, but I'm not sure".
The rest of the post goes into why I don't want to lynch him because nothing from his filter to me suggests he's more likely scum than town. It seems to me like you're taking every excuse to paint me as scum even when the arguments don't hold any water, which is further strengthening my scum read on you.
On December 14 2013 20:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm not sure LSB is a good lynch. Avoiding responsibility seems to be the only thing he's done. He's too blatantly talking about scum agenda's and what he thinks scum would do. It feels more like he's trying to place himself into the position of a scum player to catch them. Hypocrisy also isn't something I'd ascribe to scum players alone. Look at Cora. Called out players for not being allowed to be inactive, then said he'd be inactive in the same post. The case on LSB doesn't make him scum imo.
I've already said what I think about Rayn and Xatalos, but I don't know what your view on Xatalos is Plutarch. Could you inform me?
On December 14 2013 03:24 kushm4sta wrote: LOL plz plz do not stoke the fire that lies inside corazon's butt. We know he's town. He is a master troll. The best way to fight a troll is to ignore it.
I came around to artanis being town. His push for xatalos seems really genuine, and I think it might be right. Still need to read xatalos' filter, but let me just say I am super unimpressed with his recent long post. If you look it actually contains deceptively little content.
On December 13 2013 20:20 sidesprang wrote: Ok was busy yesterday, had exam today. Read the thread and i'm now starting on filters.
What I've noted so far is, that I noticed people wanted to try to find mafia from looking at the voting pattern. Which I think is a valid way of doing things.
One thing that caught my mind was. There was deffo some suspicious votes happening, I think we all agree on that. But for one of those suspicious votes to actually be a mafia, wont VA have to be mafia. Like I mean no mafia member should vote like that unless they try to save his teammate.
So my thought is
VA = Mafia -> susp votes = mafia VA = Town-> susp votes = town
Of course there is also the possibility that its just bad play in general. But I think the link is worth to take note of.
Only read purps filter for today, but I find that one very scummy in general. He is not really doing much. He said he had a town read on cora, then 2 hours after he proceeds to vote on him. I think it had something to do with the notes. I'll look more into why he did that flip later. And he is also defending VA a lot. All that together with the very weak reason for voting spag makes him very scummy in my eyes.
I wont cast any votes untill I get to read the rest, but I need some sleep first.
Not necessarily. Scum can make suspicious votes even if it's town vs town. Naturally the suspicious votes are even more suspicious if VA is scum.
On December 13 2013 21:49 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Plutarch, Rayn, Kush, and anyone else here please comment on my points regarding Xatalos. I don't like that he's not being discussed at all.
On December 13 2013 05:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Speaking of Xatalos. I'll repeat my points on him again, with a few bonus ones for good measure. -Threw shit on everyone until he found someone that it stuck on, showing disregard for who gets lynched as long as it isn't him. -First said I might've had a good point on him that he started too fast, then proceeds to OMGUS me later despite nothing having changed. Slight town read at first, then suddenly switches to scumread and then top scumread. -Randomly unvotes me in favour of Purpletrator despite him not having gained any traction either. First tunnels me into oblivion, then randomly stops giving a shit from one moment on the other. His interactions with me make no sense and he seems to care more about what town thinks of them then actually convincing anyone. -Switches up to Spaghetticus despite half his projected scumteam voting for Spaghetti.
Could we please lynch this scum already?
Surprisingly I agree with Kush. Rayn is attacking one of the only players he still had a strong townread on early on for reasons I find incomprehensible. Plutarch is pretty much the most townie guy around right now, and he's attacked for rehashing reads. Rayn's intent seems to be to make no one trust eachother to prevent town from cooperating. He's also called both myself and Xatalos scum, but mentioned before that he doesn't think we can both be scum. Fast forward to today and he hasn't mentioned either of us in any real way. He hasn't tried to get to know our alignment despite calling us both scummy and at the same time saying we can't both be scum (which I'd also like an explanation for). Rayn knows too much and seems to have a scum agenda on his mind. He also hasn't answered what that 'very scummy thing' was that he quoted despite both myself and Xatalos asking what it is.
These are pretty much non-points / things I have already explained (and Artanis clearly hasn't read). Some of the points are even townie for me (overall aggression, generating discussion, pressuring a lot). That's how I've basically always started the game as town (and recently as scum too -> pretty much null). Really quite bad reasons for wanting to lynch me #1. Incidentally, this "case" is a decent additional reason to lynch Artanis.
How many would be up for lynching Artanis today? rayn, you at least mentioned that Artanis was scummy N1. Please, get off Plutarch and lynch a much scummier player (Plutarch isn't even scummy, and it puzzles me that you're going for him).
On December 13 2013 05:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Holyflare the Medic has been shot by an ass-bullet! bumatlarge the Civilian has been eaten by Sebastian!
Holyflare's death doesn't give that much new info in itself, but the more important part is that it confirms Corazon as a (misguided) Vigi. Regardless, he's town, which makes Artanis look (very slightly) better and probably me/Plutarch worse. But what's done is done, and it's time to move on. (as a sidenote, from the shock that this Vigi shot caused, I probably won't be trusting Vigilantes to make sensible choices in the future).
bum's death is a big mystery to me, since he did pretty much nothing all game. Does anyone have an idea about why the SK would shoot him? Maybe he thought bum was scum? In that case there might be some merit in going through who suspected bum.
- - - -
Other players who would be decent lynches are purple and LSB.
- purple's vote wasn't that scummy, but he's been lurking and posting useless one-liners all game... and now we also know that Corazon is town, which makes purple slightly more likely scum
- LSB has been throwing his vote around meaninglessly all game... hasn't truly pushed anything, just bandwagoned or thrown his vote here or there... and his Spag vote was actually about as scummy as that of Artanis
VA, kush, Grackaroni and sidesprang aren't looking good either. VA has been just targeting the easiest lynches, kush happily lynched his own townread, Grackaroni's vote was pretty scummy too and sidesprang has barely posted enough to avoid being policy lynched.
I think we should start from Artanis and continue from there. There are a lot of scummy players, but it should get easier when one is flipped.
So yeah sorry for calling your case bad artanis.
Glad you came around bb <3
Well, this makes me a bit more worried about LSB again. That's such a wishy-washy stance.
How is it Wishy-Washy? I'm pretty clear in that I don't want to lynch him right now.
But if you don't want to lynch him, then fine.
Although I'd like you to elaborate on "right now".
From LSB's current posts I have no interest in seeing him lynched. I don't consider him town by any means, but I don't see anything indicating scum with any strength either.
On December 14 2013 20:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm not sure LSB is a good lynch. Avoiding responsibility seems to be the only thing he's done. He's too blatantly talking about scum agenda's and what he thinks scum would do. It feels more like he's trying to place himself into the position of a scum player to catch them. Hypocrisy also isn't something I'd ascribe to scum players alone. Look at Cora. Called out players for not being allowed to be inactive, then said he'd be inactive in the same post. The case on LSB doesn't make him scum imo.
I've already said what I think about Rayn and Xatalos, but I don't know what your view on Xatalos is Plutarch. Could you inform me?
On December 14 2013 03:24 kushm4sta wrote: LOL plz plz do not stoke the fire that lies inside corazon's butt. We know he's town. He is a master troll. The best way to fight a troll is to ignore it.
I came around to artanis being town. His push for xatalos seems really genuine, and I think it might be right. Still need to read xatalos' filter, but let me just say I am super unimpressed with his recent long post. If you look it actually contains deceptively little content.
On December 13 2013 20:20 sidesprang wrote: Ok was busy yesterday, had exam today. Read the thread and i'm now starting on filters.
What I've noted so far is, that I noticed people wanted to try to find mafia from looking at the voting pattern. Which I think is a valid way of doing things.
One thing that caught my mind was. There was deffo some suspicious votes happening, I think we all agree on that. But for one of those suspicious votes to actually be a mafia, wont VA have to be mafia. Like I mean no mafia member should vote like that unless they try to save his teammate.
So my thought is
VA = Mafia -> susp votes = mafia VA = Town-> susp votes = town
Of course there is also the possibility that its just bad play in general. But I think the link is worth to take note of.
Only read purps filter for today, but I find that one very scummy in general. He is not really doing much. He said he had a town read on cora, then 2 hours after he proceeds to vote on him. I think it had something to do with the notes. I'll look more into why he did that flip later. And he is also defending VA a lot. All that together with the very weak reason for voting spag makes him very scummy in my eyes.
I wont cast any votes untill I get to read the rest, but I need some sleep first.
Not necessarily. Scum can make suspicious votes even if it's town vs town. Naturally the suspicious votes are even more suspicious if VA is scum.
On December 13 2013 21:49 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Plutarch, Rayn, Kush, and anyone else here please comment on my points regarding Xatalos. I don't like that he's not being discussed at all.
On December 13 2013 05:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Speaking of Xatalos. I'll repeat my points on him again, with a few bonus ones for good measure. -Threw shit on everyone until he found someone that it stuck on, showing disregard for who gets lynched as long as it isn't him. -First said I might've had a good point on him that he started too fast, then proceeds to OMGUS me later despite nothing having changed. Slight town read at first, then suddenly switches to scumread and then top scumread. -Randomly unvotes me in favour of Purpletrator despite him not having gained any traction either. First tunnels me into oblivion, then randomly stops giving a shit from one moment on the other. His interactions with me make no sense and he seems to care more about what town thinks of them then actually convincing anyone. -Switches up to Spaghetticus despite half his projected scumteam voting for Spaghetti.
Could we please lynch this scum already?
Surprisingly I agree with Kush. Rayn is attacking one of the only players he still had a strong townread on early on for reasons I find incomprehensible. Plutarch is pretty much the most townie guy around right now, and he's attacked for rehashing reads. Rayn's intent seems to be to make no one trust eachother to prevent town from cooperating. He's also called both myself and Xatalos scum, but mentioned before that he doesn't think we can both be scum. Fast forward to today and he hasn't mentioned either of us in any real way. He hasn't tried to get to know our alignment despite calling us both scummy and at the same time saying we can't both be scum (which I'd also like an explanation for). Rayn knows too much and seems to have a scum agenda on his mind. He also hasn't answered what that 'very scummy thing' was that he quoted despite both myself and Xatalos asking what it is.
These are pretty much non-points / things I have already explained (and Artanis clearly hasn't read). Some of the points are even townie for me (overall aggression, generating discussion, pressuring a lot). That's how I've basically always started the game as town (and recently as scum too -> pretty much null). Really quite bad reasons for wanting to lynch me #1. Incidentally, this "case" is a decent additional reason to lynch Artanis.
How many would be up for lynching Artanis today? rayn, you at least mentioned that Artanis was scummy N1. Please, get off Plutarch and lynch a much scummier player (Plutarch isn't even scummy, and it puzzles me that you're going for him).
On December 13 2013 05:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: Holyflare the Medic has been shot by an ass-bullet! bumatlarge the Civilian has been eaten by Sebastian!
Holyflare's death doesn't give that much new info in itself, but the more important part is that it confirms Corazon as a (misguided) Vigi. Regardless, he's town, which makes Artanis look (very slightly) better and probably me/Plutarch worse. But what's done is done, and it's time to move on. (as a sidenote, from the shock that this Vigi shot caused, I probably won't be trusting Vigilantes to make sensible choices in the future).
bum's death is a big mystery to me, since he did pretty much nothing all game. Does anyone have an idea about why the SK would shoot him? Maybe he thought bum was scum? In that case there might be some merit in going through who suspected bum.
- - - -
Other players who would be decent lynches are purple and LSB.
- purple's vote wasn't that scummy, but he's been lurking and posting useless one-liners all game... and now we also know that Corazon is town, which makes purple slightly more likely scum
- LSB has been throwing his vote around meaninglessly all game... hasn't truly pushed anything, just bandwagoned or thrown his vote here or there... and his Spag vote was actually about as scummy as that of Artanis
VA, kush, Grackaroni and sidesprang aren't looking good either. VA has been just targeting the easiest lynches, kush happily lynched his own townread, Grackaroni's vote was pretty scummy too and sidesprang has barely posted enough to avoid being policy lynched.
I think we should start from Artanis and continue from there. There are a lot of scummy players, but it should get easier when one is flipped.
So yeah sorry for calling your case bad artanis.
Glad you came around bb <3
Well, this makes me a bit more worried about LSB again. That's such a wishy-washy stance.
How is it Wishy-Washy? I'm pretty clear in that I don't want to lynch him right now.
Judging from that post, your stance was more like "eh, I don't really think he's a good lynch, but I'm not sure".
The rest of the post goes into why I don't want to lynch him because nothing from his filter to me suggests he's more likely scum than town. It seems to me like you're taking every excuse to paint me as scum even when the arguments don't hold any water, which is further strengthening my scum read on you.
Maybe I focused too strongly on the first sentence. Dunno why you would say you're "not sure" about lynching him and then proceed to have no arguments for him being scum though............ Shouldn't you think that he's town then? Like.... what?
When you don't have a scum or town read on someone, it's called being "not sure" or "null".
On December 15 2013 03:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay i just wrote a fucking big case on Artanis it took like an hour and then i clicked on X. FUCK THIS!
Lynch Artanis. He is scum. 1) His reasoning on Xatalos being scum is still the same that on D1. Nothing has changed, he hasn't taken a different approach on getting him lynched while it's clear the D1 won't work (as Xatalos was not lynched on D1). He is not really trying to lynch Xatalos.
I have been screaming at people for opinions on Xatalos all game but no one's giving it any thought. I've quoted the points I've listed. There have been points added to that. It just seems that everyone's too interested in LSB and Vayne to look at Xatalos. Look at my filter. I've called attention to him plenty of times.
2) He calls multiple people scummy or bad and discredits them. Read the last couple of pages in his filter. Me, kush, Grack, Vayne (+ he has the contradicting read on him in the same post). Also his read on Cora changes weirdly in the middle of N1. He has no intention to figure out any of those people's alignment, he just calls them scummy or bad and does not even explain the reasoning behind it. Just look at his filter, people have "extra info" or "are working under scum mindset" but never he explains why.
I was making the post including Vayne as I went along through the thread. I reread the case of JJD on Vayne during the creation of the post and forgot I mentioned him before because I hadn't paid much attention to him beforehand. My read on Cora doesn't change weirdly; I spotted some strange things in Cora's filter brought to my attention by HF, but could later explain them from a town perspective after reconsidering it. I've been focussed on trying to get Xatalos lynched on whom I have a strong scumread. The fact that no one's willing to listen frustrates me and it's eating into my appetite to playing the game.
3) He calls nearly all the Spaghetticus votes bad, but then he hadn't even read how the votes went down and why as he couldn't explain which votes in particularly were bad. Then he just paints them as bad and doesn't look more into them but magically Xatalos' voting behavior ends up in his case. There is no reason Xatalos' vote should have been any more scummy than other "bad votes".
That was an offhand presumption. If you think townies never make them then I don't hold your opinion in high regard. Xatalos' vote was poor because of other circumstancial reasons, such as his scumreads voting for it and because he even gave spaghetti a townread earlier on.
He is not trying to find scum and just calling people scummy or bad left and right and not explaining why. Definitely mafia. I don't like lynching vayne, i am pretty sure he is town. LSB is a bad lynch too i think, he's playing better than he did in PYP at least post-qualitywise. He is explaining his reads and while the methods are a bit... interesting, i don't think there is anything scummy in it.
Artanis is the best lynch today.
##Vote: Artanis
Nope, Xatalos is. Does anyone finally want to talk about him?
On December 15 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: I can talk about Xatalos but you need a different approach. I have already answered your case on D1 and the case is practically the same, besides his vote on Spag. I don't think that alone makes him mafia.
You didn't think Mocsta was mafia for his strange suspicion on Spaghetticus either in LXIII. I think my case illustrates why Xatalos is mafia without the fluff.
On December 15 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: I can talk about Xatalos but you need a different approach. I have already answered your case on D1 and the case is practically the same, besides his vote on Spag. I don't think that alone makes him mafia.
You didn't think Mocsta was mafia for his strange suspicion on Spaghetticus either in LXIII. I think my case illustrates why Xatalos is mafia without the fluff.
Yes i did not think Mocsta was mafia until he went on and shot StorrZerg. I told him his case was not good but i could have seen town!Mocsta do that case. Maybe i am just shitty in reading him. Can you do/answer the following: 1) Give me the reasoning why Xatalos is mafia. I promise you i will be reading his filter and tell you what i think. 2) Do you think you can get Xatalos lynched today? If not, could you give at least 2 people who you think are mafia, with reasoning, not only saying they "work under mafia mindset" or "are bad or scum". Like actually explain why something means something to you. If you are town it's really hard to tell atm because that's honestly what you are doing in your reads on about ~half of the people in this game.
Sure. Can you answer me why you were unwilling to talk to me earlier because you considered me scum when that read hasn't changed, yet are willing to do so now?
On December 13 2013 21:49 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Plutarch, Rayn, Kush, and anyone else here please comment on my points regarding Xatalos. I don't like that he's not being discussed at all.
On December 13 2013 05:00 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Speaking of Xatalos. I'll repeat my points on him again, with a few bonus ones for good measure. -Threw shit on everyone until he found someone that it stuck on, showing disregard for who gets lynched as long as it isn't him. -First said I might've had a good point on him that he started too fast, then proceeds to OMGUS me later despite nothing having changed. Slight town read at first, then suddenly switches to scumread and then top scumread. -Randomly unvotes me in favour of Purpletrator despite him not having gained any traction either. First tunnels me into oblivion, then randomly stops giving a shit from one moment on the other. His interactions with me make no sense and he seems to care more about what town thinks of them then actually convincing anyone. -Switches up to Spaghetticus despite half his projected scumteam voting for Spaghetti.
Could we please lynch this scum already?
Surprisingly I agree with Kush. Rayn is attacking one of the only players he still had a strong townread on early on for reasons I find incomprehensible. Plutarch is pretty much the most townie guy around right now, and he's attacked for rehashing reads. Rayn's intent seems to be to make no one trust eachother to prevent town from cooperating. He's also called both myself and Xatalos scum, but mentioned before that he doesn't think we can both be scum. Fast forward to today and he hasn't mentioned either of us in any real way. He hasn't tried to get to know our alignment despite calling us both scummy and at the same time saying we can't both be scum (which I'd also like an explanation for). Rayn knows too much and seems to have a scum agenda on his mind. He also hasn't answered what that 'very scummy thing' was that he quoted despite both myself and Xatalos asking what it is.
I don't like this post. Artanis played with Rayn earlier and saw that he got lynched as town for switching reads too much and Artanis is a good player. Can you explain why Rayn is scum for being careless and for other people carelessness is a townie trait? I want to see some better reasoning for why you believe Rayn is scum; otherwise, you are just slinging shit.
Because I felt Rayn was doing it without a townie thought process behind it. I saw no reason for him to randomly suspect Plutarch for one, when he's been so townie otherwise. HF did that to me when he was scum in our QT; randomly suspecting me even though he knew I was a claimed vigilante and practically confirmed town. Suspicions like that reek fake to me. However, with Rayn's recent posts my suspicions on him have faded. His suspicion on me feels real.
On December 13 2013 21:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am not answering you anything because you are scum. The post i am talking about proves it.
I'm glad you know alignments for certain Rayn. I wish I had that kind of knowledge. Then again I'd be scum then.
lol like this. This is terrible.
I really don't like Artanis' game long push on Xatalos. It's all based on Xatalos being overaggressive and attacking everything that moves, which really isn't how I think scum would play.
@Artanis, can you give me your thoughts on Rayn's case on Purple from all the way back at the start of day1. I want to hear what you thought about that then.
Wasn't the case on Purple like half a day into D1? I must admit I didn't pay much attention to it. Reading it now, I like the points in it. I'd need to reread Purple's filter to give you my opinion on him today though, but from the D1 posts I consider him decently scummy. Old reasons for suspecting Xatalos:
-Threw shit on everyone until he found someone that it stuck on, showing disregard for who gets lynched as long as it isn't him. -First said I might've had a good point on him that he started too fast, then proceeds to OMGUS me later despite nothing having changed. Slight town read at first, then suddenly switches to scumread and then top scumread. -Randomly unvotes me in favour of Purpletrator despite him not having gained any traction either. First tunnels me into oblivion, then randomly stops giving a shit from one moment on the other. His interactions with me make no sense and he seems to care more about what town thinks of them then actually convincing anyone. -Switches up to Spaghetticus despite half his projected scumteam voting for Spaghetti.
Since then: -Makes a post with a big push on me, then goes on with the order of the day. Doesn't force anyone to pay attention to the case he made. He brings it up sometimes but in a very casual way and doesn't force people to look at it when it's ignored. -Wishy-Washy thing on me made absolutely no sense when he had a wishy-washy stance on me himself. I'm the scapegoat for his plans. He doesn't actually wants to lynch me because he knows I'll flip green, so he finds any reason he can to try and paint me red. The worse the reason, the better as it won't actually convince anyone.
On December 15 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: I can talk about Xatalos but you need a different approach. I have already answered your case on D1 and the case is practically the same, besides his vote on Spag. I don't think that alone makes him mafia.
You didn't think Mocsta was mafia for his strange suspicion on Spaghetticus either in LXIII. I think my case illustrates why Xatalos is mafia without the fluff.
Yes i did not think Mocsta was mafia until he went on and shot StorrZerg. I told him his case was not good but i could have seen town!Mocsta do that case. Maybe i am just shitty in reading him. Can you do/answer the following: 1) Give me the reasoning why Xatalos is mafia. I promise you i will be reading his filter and tell you what i think. 2) Do you think you can get Xatalos lynched today? If not, could you give at least 2 people who you think are mafia, with reasoning, not only saying they "work under mafia mindset" or "are bad or scum". Like actually explain why something means something to you. If you are town it's really hard to tell atm because that's honestly what you are doing in your reads on about ~half of the people in this game.
Sure. Can you answer me why you were unwilling to talk to me earlier because you considered me scum when that read hasn't changed, yet are willing to do so now?
I think it was yesterday? I made quite a faceplant when i was walking home on Thursday. I look like a fucking mosnter and didn't feel quite well yesterday..
On December 15 2013 04:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: Grackaroni i have a problem because as i have said since D1 i think both Xatalos/Artanis fall into the same category and i dunno which one is scum and which one is not.
I think I'd be happy lynching either one really. If one flips town its ok. I guarantee one of them will be scum.
What the? I could lynch you for this post right now.
On December 15 2013 04:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: Grackaroni i have a problem because as i have said since D1 i think both Xatalos/Artanis fall into the same category and i dunno which one is scum and which one is not.
I think I'd be happy lynching either one really. If one flips town its ok. I guarantee one of them will be scum.
What the? I could lynch you for this post right now.
you won't trade 1 for 1?
The blatant disregard for who is actually scum shows a lack of townie mindset to me, and contrasts with the effort you just put in to analyze Xatalos, which is strange if you believe only one of me/Xatalos is scum and you having a scum read on Xatalos earlier. Instantly backtracking on that and not giving a shit looks like shit to me.
On December 15 2013 04:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: Grackaroni i have a problem because as i have said since D1 i think both Xatalos/Artanis fall into the same category and i dunno which one is scum and which one is not.
I think I'd be happy lynching either one really. If one flips town its ok. I guarantee one of them will be scum.
What the? I could lynch you for this post right now.
you won't trade 1 for 1?
The blatant disregard for who is actually scum shows a lack of townie mindset to me, and contrasts with the effort you just put in to analyze Xatalos, which is strange if you believe only one of me/Xatalos is scum and you having a scum read on Xatalos earlier. Instantly backtracking on that and not giving a shit looks like shit to me.
I've tried to figure it out and you both look like scum.
Do you think a scenario where we're both scum is likely? If not, do you think giving up on finding out our alignment is a protown thing to do?
-Threw shit on everyone until he found someone that it stuck on, showing disregard for who gets lynched as long as it isn't him.
Is till think this can be interpreted as forcing discussion aswell. Is there anything particular that makes you think mafia would stick their neck out like that so early in the game for no reason? Xatalos was the main person to start discussion.
I don't think he stuck his neck out because all his questions put the pressure on other players rather than himself. He's creating pressure rather than allowing pressure to be put on himself.
-Switches up to Spaghetticus despite half his projected scumteam voting for Spaghetti.
I don't think this is as scummy as it looks like, unless Vayne is mafia, which i do not believe. However i think this point does not make Xatalos scum.
This is the fluffiest post to be honest, but it doesn't look good in combination with the rest of the points. I don't know if Vayne is mafia, but from what I've seen I wouldn't mind a lynch on him.
-Makes a post with a big push on me, then goes on with the order of the day. Doesn't force anyone to pay attention to the case he made. He brings it up sometimes but in a very casual way and doesn't force people to look at it when it's ignored. -Wishy-Washy thing on me made absolutely no sense when he had a wishy-washy stance on me himself. I'm the scapegoat for his plans. He doesn't actually wants to lynch me because he knows I'll flip green, so he finds any reason he can to try and paint me red. The worse the reason, the better as it won't actually convince anyone.
Yeah D2 is a clusterfuck from him, but then again i don't think anyone else has done much either. Basically nearly all the people fall into same category on D2, including you.
Ugh, Artanis how would you feel about xigxag lynch?
Why xigxag over someone like Purple? When Xig has posted, he's actually given reasoned reads. Do you find anything actually scummy in his filter?
On December 14 2013 07:06 kushm4sta wrote: i dare you to tell me lsb and xatalos aren't scum.
I already said that these posts look contrived but man, even if he truly believes that "2 scum have been caught" (though I don't know how), how can he say something like the game is almost solved when the entire town is is such disagreement.
I wouldn't mind a Kush lynch. His vote for spag after totally defending is one of the scummiest things to happen this game and his explaination was weak @ best.
I've flipped my Kush read more times than a thai ladyboy during holiday seasons. He's once again basically said he wants to lynch (LSB) for information, and he's apathetic. Despite Xigxag's reasons for him being town for downplaying his influence on purpose I'm not sure that's a strong enough reason, as it also reduces your accountability and therefore makes it easier to skate by.
However, his read evaluation on me changing to Xatalos makes me feel better on him. When Xatalos flips and he flips scum that'd make Kush look better to me. He could've easily joined the bandwagon on me, but didn't. I don't really want Kush to die today.
On December 15 2013 05:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why is everyone thinking purple is scummy but noone wants to lynch him?
I'd be happy to lynch him. I just want to lynch Xatalos more. Going through his filter right now though. He said this to Corazon:
You are "confirmed" town. There has been no counterclaim. You have the greatest motive to have shot HolyFlare, you claim to have done it and an "ass-bullet" has been reported. All these things point to you being confirmed town. Despite all this, Plutarch is STILL townier than you are, and he's only semi-confirmed.
This makes no sense. You can't be townier than confirmed town. I share his townread on Plutarch, but his absolute certainty is alarming. I remembered that Xigxag made a post regarding a town read on Purple, but after actually reading through the case it suggests scum more than town to me. + Show Spoiler +
On December 13 2013 07:07 xigxag wrote: Barney the purple dinosaur
On December 10 2013 06:43 LSB wrote: ##Vote: purpletrator Scum are mafia pretending to be someone else. Smurfs are players pretending to be someone else. Smurfs = Mafia. Flawless mafia. Lynch all Smurfs
You could at least start in alphabetical order. What if I reveal my identity? Would you change your vote to a different smurf?
Worst post in thread. ##Vote: purpletrator
Kusplain?
Hello sir, I promise not to get mad at you this game
If purpletrator can reasonably explain what he is going to achieve with that post i'm going to unvote. Now i gotta sleep! cya tomorrow.
Please don't be useless Alakaslam ok?
You mean to tell me you have no concern over the erroneous logic LSB used to vote me? You honestly think my response is worse than "smurfs=mafia"? To actually answer your question, I'm wondering why LSB is wasting my time and wanted to see if he's actually trying to get a response or just trolling. When he ignored my response I chalked it up to 'just trolling'. Then you called me out, he noticed my response and now wants to fish for my identity. Now it looks scummy.
On December 10 2013 07:18 LSB wrote: Missed this post
On December 10 2013 06:44 purpletrator wrote:
On December 10 2013 06:43 LSB wrote: ##Vote: purpletrator Scum are mafia pretending to be someone else. Smurfs are players pretending to be someone else. Smurfs = Mafia. Flawless mafia. Lynch all Smurfs
You could at least start in alphabetical order. What if I reveal my identity? Would you change your vote to a different smurf?
Ya, sure. Reveal please!
It was a hypothetical. I'm not revealing my identity. Good to know you dont give a shit about the lynch.
##Vote: LSB
Barney's inability to recognize the joke in LSB's post worries me. The self conscious way he reacts to an early throw away vote suggests scum to me. No townie reads LSB's post and thinks "oh no! He is going to lynch me for being a smurf! Must OMGus!"
On December 10 2013 07:29 LSB wrote: Btw for those of you who claim that every game I don't have a plan in I'm a scum, here's a plan
Notice this post
On December 10 2013 02:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: As the OP states "possible roles";
Is every role guaranteed to be in a game? Can there be more than 1 of any role? Is the SK guaranteed to be in the game?
Notice the lack of millers. This setup is vulnerable to the follow the DT plan where the DT claims and the medics heal him every night.
Since flips are open, we just need to make sure we don't accidentally lynch our DT and medic and hypothetically speaking we will have a massive advantage later on in this game where follow the DT shines.
Btw DT/Medic plz don't claim. Unless you are about to be lynched.
Jim Raynor (Roleblocker)
-You're not a Zerg, but you sure as hell hate the UED. Or actually you don't, but Kerrigan is a master at pussywhipping, so you just tag along with her shenanigans and think (because you're told to) you hate the UED.
Once per night you can silence a player since you're human looking enough to convince them to put the gun/medicgun/magnifying glass down.
[/plan] If we lynch a roleblocker we can look at playing follow the cop I guess
I do really like this post in some ways while I don't like it in others. bullet points good things: 1 shutting down bad plans 2 simplicity, doesn't try to grab town cred with this post
bad things: 1. shuts down a plan based on a possible scum role 2. is very aware of scum PRs.
Barney is either well versed in OP reading or is scum. Your guess is as good as mine.
On December 10 2013 08:30 kushm4sta wrote: ya like i said im lurk strating. have no opinions on anything so dont even bother to ask.
Alright then. If it's going to be like this, I don't want you alive at LYLO. Start doing something or die.
##Vote kushm4sta
Can we appeal to the vig(s) to shoot kush and/or slam for us?
missed this on my first read through. I hate hate hate hate hate hate this play. Vigis are better than this. I'd think. Though I'd prefer either of the above players be gone over our doc. Whatever. Without solid reasons for either why they are scum or why town is better off without them all Barney does is try to direct town KP towards, probable, townies over it being directed at scum.
On December 10 2013 08:53 Xatalos wrote: By the way, purple, your filter is pretty lackluster so far. What have you been doing for all this time? Actively lurking?
i went to look at LSB's old games, only actually looked at PYP which is still ongoing and decided I'd seen enough to unvote him.
What the shit is this? Why look at a game from an un-flipped player? Reading alignments from that game is totally useless unless the player is dead in said game in which case the read is still tenuous. Why even bring this up in thread? No reason at all. Therefore scummy.
On December 10 2013 13:21 Plutarch wrote: Purple I would like you to explain the issue you had with my statement clearly. What is lackluster about stating you would rather lynch scum than lurkers in the context of a conversation about lurker policy?
On December 10 2013 06:33 purpletrator wrote:
On December 10 2013 06:30 Xatalos wrote:
On December 10 2013 06:27 purpletrator wrote: I am a civilian. To my great dismay, my blood is not purple.
Plutarch, what distinguishes "scum" from "coin-flip"?
I'd assume he means that lurker = coin-flip.
Did you ask merely out of curiosity or for what reason?
It was a pretty lackluster statement to make. I want to know if there was any meat to the meaning behind "coin-flip", because its an empty phrase, much like things like WIFOM and scumslip. Empty buzzwords that don't actually find scum but look like you want to find them.
It wasnt explicit that you equated coinflip to lurker. It was also a crock of shit in the sense that you cant know with certainty scum vs coinflip. If you want to call it policy, do that.
It was pretty clear. I also believe you can know scum with such a high probability that it is almost certain, so it really isn't a crock of shit.
Regardless I don't see the point in attacking that post at all. What were you trying to gain from doing so?
Well since you understood your own post, of course you wont see a point to attacking it. I think it was fake, I just dont know if it was fake or fake
this post! This post says nothing! It accuses while it backtracks. If Barney thought that Plutarch was scum he could act on that. If he thought Plu was town he could act on that. But he does neither. He simply says that the post is a lie. Barney's post is a lie, it has no town motivation. There is no reason to post this except to appear as if you are thinking about the game. The above post is a total waste of space. An IGMEOY with added fluff.
On December 12 2013 02:56 purpletrator wrote: So kush you wont tell me why you had/have me as town?
I do like this post. I like a player who niggles at the little things that don't make sense even when those little things benefit the player. This is a more minor point because it is in relation to Kush and not someone whose opinion would be valued by others but it does provide some suggestion of a townie dinosaur.
On December 12 2013 03:00 Corazon wrote: To whomever asked: yes I have notes until page 21. I've been too busy to take notes since then. I will probably pick up with the notes starting D2. Do you want to see them? There are only 3 or so major points in them. One on Spag, one on purple, and one on Vayne
It was me, and it was because you'd mentioned it then said you'd make a case on Xata:
On December 10 2013 09:55 Corazon wrote: I caught up to the thread and took notes. I must go for an hour and then I will be back with Xatalos case.
I find it incredibly odd that Xata isnt in your notes
This too suggests town. An insignificant detail which is being niggled at for all the right reasons.
On December 12 2013 05:18 purpletrator wrote: cora better have notes.... ##Unvote: Corazon ##Vote: Spaghetticus
...I was so ready to say that this dino was a town dino. Now I'm not sure. Although it seems that Cora was no longer a possible lynch. So I can get behind Purple being probably town.
so far since I began my reread: Vayne Coag purpletrator Corazon - vig
I will get behind a Purple lynch if a Xatalos lynch is not possible.
On December 15 2013 03:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay i just wrote a fucking big case on Artanis it took like an hour and then i clicked on X. FUCK THIS!
Lynch Artanis. He is scum. 1) His reasoning on Xatalos being scum is still the same that on D1. Nothing has changed, he hasn't taken a different approach on getting him lynched while it's clear the D1 won't work (as Xatalos was not lynched on D1). He is not really trying to lynch Xatalos. 2) He calls multiple people scummy or bad and discredits them. Read the last couple of pages in his filter. Me, kush, Grack, Vayne (+ he has the contradicting read on him in the same post). Also his read on Cora changes weirdly in the middle of N1. He has no intention to figure out any of those people's alignment, he just calls them scummy or bad and does not even explain the reasoning behind it. Just look at his filter, people have "extra info" or "are working under scum mindset" but never he explains why. 3) He calls nearly all the Spaghetticus votes bad, but then he hadn't even read how the votes went down and why as he couldn't explain which votes in particularly were bad. Then he just paints them as bad and doesn't look more into them but magically Xatalos' voting behavior ends up in his case. There is no reason Xatalos' vote should have been any more scummy than other "bad votes".
He is not trying to find scum and just calling people scummy or bad left and right and not explaining why. Definitely mafia. I don't like lynching vayne, i am pretty sure he is town. LSB is a bad lynch too i think, he's playing better than he did in PYP at least post-qualitywise. He is explaining his reads and while the methods are a bit... interesting, i don't think there is anything scummy in it.
Artanis is the best lynch today.
##Vote: Artanis
Imma bout ready to do this instead, Let's see what else is said.
On December 15 2013 05:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Alakaslam,
On December 15 2013 03:37 Alakaslam wrote:
On December 15 2013 03:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay i just wrote a fucking big case on Artanis it took like an hour and then i clicked on X. FUCK THIS!
Lynch Artanis. He is scum. 1) His reasoning on Xatalos being scum is still the same that on D1. Nothing has changed, he hasn't taken a different approach on getting him lynched while it's clear the D1 won't work (as Xatalos was not lynched on D1). He is not really trying to lynch Xatalos. 2) He calls multiple people scummy or bad and discredits them. Read the last couple of pages in his filter. Me, kush, Grack, Vayne (+ he has the contradicting read on him in the same post). Also his read on Cora changes weirdly in the middle of N1. He has no intention to figure out any of those people's alignment, he just calls them scummy or bad and does not even explain the reasoning behind it. Just look at his filter, people have "extra info" or "are working under scum mindset" but never he explains why. 3) He calls nearly all the Spaghetticus votes bad, but then he hadn't even read how the votes went down and why as he couldn't explain which votes in particularly were bad. Then he just paints them as bad and doesn't look more into them but magically Xatalos' voting behavior ends up in his case. There is no reason Xatalos' vote should have been any more scummy than other "bad votes".
He is not trying to find scum and just calling people scummy or bad left and right and not explaining why. Definitely mafia. I don't like lynching vayne, i am pretty sure he is town. LSB is a bad lynch too i think, he's playing better than he did in PYP at least post-qualitywise. He is explaining his reads and while the methods are a bit... interesting, i don't think there is anything scummy in it.
Artanis is the best lynch today.
##Vote: Artanis
Imma bout ready to do this instead, Let's see what else is said.
Did you get to any conclusions from the reread?
Of what you have said so far? What do you mean? What did I reread and why do you think I'm rereading it?
"Imma bout ready to do this instead" suggests action. "Let's see what else is said." suggests reading. I was hoping you came to conclusions from said reading and entered action mode from it.
With 30 minutes I don't think Purple or Xatalos is going to happen. Consider me a +1 on either of those trains if they manage to take off though. ##Unvote ##Vote: VayneAuthority
On December 15 2013 05:40 Alakaslam wrote: ALRIGHT LOOK.
Would the xata pair and rate just consolidate on xigxag please? Because Blazinghand?
I could do this. xigxag has been scummy since day one. ##unvote:
##Vote: Xigxag
What do you find scummy in his filter?
Read my case on him from day one? or the follow up I posted?
I'm scrolling through your filter and I can't find your case. Please enlighten me on which page. I'm sure I've read it before. If you mean this post:
On December 10 2013 16:22 Plutarch wrote: Basically what you are saying is that even though your reasoning is flawed and you cannot provide better reasoning, your reasoning for him being town is good. And my reasoning for him being null is bad. Yet you cannot state why other than mentioning some non-specific facts of the game.
I am more than aware of the differences in a scum and town mindset and I am telling you that there is no way you can tell. Do I think he is scum? I don't know. Do I think he is town? I don't know. And neither should you.
Further, I have played in many games with kush and I can tell you that he is more than capable of this style of play as both alignments.
What is odd though, is that you are defending a town read that is at best a large stretch to the hilt. And time and again people who provide town reads that I cant quite understand and who aren't able to provide solid reasons for those reads are scum.
This kush read is very scummy.
Then I don't think that's very convincing. You're basically saying that you don't see what he sees in it. This happens between townies all the time. If it didn't this game would be pretty easy.
On December 15 2013 05:40 Alakaslam wrote: ALRIGHT LOOK.
Would the xata pair and rate just consolidate on xigxag please? Because Blazinghand?
I could do this. xigxag has been scummy since day one. ##unvote:
##Vote: Xigxag
What do you find scummy in his filter?
Read my case on him from day one? or the follow up I posted?
I'm scrolling through your filter and I can't find your case. Please enlighten me on which page. I'm sure I've read it before. If you mean this post:
On December 10 2013 16:22 Plutarch wrote: Basically what you are saying is that even though your reasoning is flawed and you cannot provide better reasoning, your reasoning for him being town is good. And my reasoning for him being null is bad. Yet you cannot state why other than mentioning some non-specific facts of the game.
I am more than aware of the differences in a scum and town mindset and I am telling you that there is no way you can tell. Do I think he is scum? I don't know. Do I think he is town? I don't know. And neither should you.
Further, I have played in many games with kush and I can tell you that he is more than capable of this style of play as both alignments.
What is odd though, is that you are defending a town read that is at best a large stretch to the hilt. And time and again people who provide town reads that I cant quite understand and who aren't able to provide solid reasons for those reads are scum.
This kush read is very scummy.
Then I don't think that's very convincing. You're basically saying that you don't see what he sees in it. This happens between townies all the time. If it didn't this game would be pretty easy.
You clearly haven't read day one properly at all...
Or I have bad memory. Anyway, looks like it won't matter as xig isn't getting lynched regardless.
On December 15 2013 06:06 Xatalos wrote: LOL nice. This at least means rayn has to be town.
And me for bringing up Purple when Rayn wanted to lynch Xigxag. Only false if Xigxag is also scum.
Hmmmmmm......
It's pretty hard to believe you'd do that as scum.
If you think it'd be hard to believe for me to redirect a lynch onto a scum purple if I'm scum, and you think I'm scum, why did you vote for Purpletrator?
On December 15 2013 06:23 VayneAuthority wrote: Whoever our cop is should risk it another night and probably come out tomorrow if it helps at all. can't wait any longer with 2 NKs every day.
Claiming is terrible until a cop checks scum. The cop should just hint in his reads if he finds town players.
Hi, just got home, skimmed through thread. Read Xatalos posts and am even more certain of his scummyness. Suddenly has a townread on me for what I did despite no one else responding the same way and him having me as his greatest scumspect. He should be the last person to change his read on me. It can't be explained from a town perspective, but it can from a scum perspective: He would never do what I did (mentioning purple rather than a free lynch on xigxag) in my shoes, so he figured everyone else would read me the same way and changed his stance to look better when it does happen. After realizing the rest of the game didn't follow this story as quickly he tries to find an excuse to get back on me again. Dude is scum, pls lynch.
VA is a good lynch too, case from JJD was already decent and the scumclaim only adds to it, but Xatalos is a better lynch for today because of what happened last night on top of everything else. ##Vote Xatalos And now bed.
I don't care if people think Xatalos is scum or SK. As long as you believe that he's non town and want to vote for him I'm happy with that. I personally think he's scum and have documented it many times in my filter to which only Rayn has replied to and agreed on.
BH, I don't see why lynching an enigma is better than lynching someone I'm like 90% certain of is scum. I want to lynch the person I find most scummy, not someone who's just afk and could come back halfway through the game or could get modkilled in the meantime, or whatever. I want to lynch the scummiest player in the game which is Xatalos.
LSB, which points do you disagree with? I'd be happy to debate them.
On December 17 2013 05:46 LSB wrote: Biggest thing is your vote analysis of Xatalos, but I'd rather not debate whether or not Xatalos is scum with you when we both agree that he is scum
The idea of the debate would be to convince those who don't think so yet.
Sending a cop to a death sentenced player seems like an awful idea. If Rayn is still alive in D4 we'll look at his filter with scrutiny. He's confirmed not scum or scum wouldn't have coordinated it like this I don't think. Plutarch, other than the one day absence do you have any reason to suspect Rayn of being SK?
On December 17 2013 22:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: I can't figure out why Xatalos would claim scum. What's the point at this point? Artanis what do you think this tells about xigxag's alignment?
I think it looks poorly for Xigxag. It certainly implicates him. Xatalos was destined to be lynched at some point after Vayne flipped, either today or tomorrow. It could be that scum hopes that he comes back in the next cycle because the main reason he's suspicious is because of his inactivity.
On December 17 2013 22:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: Plutarch you seriously can't figure out why i can't possibly be SK? That's my one last question about this; Look above.
On December 18 2013 00:42 Plutarch wrote: You can't. You made a case on Xatalos and he does not mention you despite that. You don't mention or push xatalos despite making a case on him day one. You haven't done any serious scum hunting or made concerted pushes all game despite having decent activity.
Bullshit. Are you actually reading my filter cause I've done a ton of scumhunting. Vayne was my top scumread all game so he's the person I've been voting and pushing. I've had other people as scumreads and I've always said I'd vote for them if it came down to a vote between them and someone I didn't have a scum read on. It just so happens that Vayne has been a leading wagon all game.
Yeah all you have done all game is half hardheartedly push the scummiest townie in the game. Despite calling out actual scum day one and then ignoring them mysteriously till the end of day two.
I ignored him cause he hadn't done anything I thought was too scummy since then and I had a scumread on Vayne. Don't forget, that once purple flipped, I was pretty confident that Vayne was town. And I argued against his lynch (even though you were pretty much 100% sure he was scum also). How easy would it have been for me to just have kept my scumread on him and secure a mislynch?
Bad argument since Xatalos did the same with me. There's plenty of reasons to stop tunneling as scum. Your posts stop getting read and you lose thread influence, especially once your scumread flips green. When you tunnel someone as scum you don't actually want them to flip. Vayne was at grave risk of flipping which would make you look bad so you backpedaled.
On December 18 2013 01:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah you definitely argued that Vayne is town. Here is your last post where you argue against Vayne lynch before he got modkilled:
On December 18 2013 02:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I don't know what the fuck is going on but Grack's timing on the claim looks incredibly off for a townie. Will wait to see what the night kills bring.
If he legitimately had a red check on me why would he not claim at the start of the day? Instead he 'crumbs' like an hour before he claims, 4 hours before deadline.
This is not a legit cop claim.
I agree it's incredibly unlikely, but I don't see a reason to jump to conclusions when the NK's will probably reveal the truth anyway.
On December 18 2013 02:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I don't know what the fuck is going on but Grack's timing on the claim looks incredibly off for a townie. Will wait to see what the night kills bring.
If he legitimately had a red check on me why would he not claim at the start of the day? Instead he 'crumbs' like an hour before he claims, 4 hours before deadline.
This is not a legit cop claim.
I agree it's incredibly unlikely, but I don't see a reason to jump to conclusions when the NK's will probably reveal the truth anyway.
I do because he is lying about my alignment.
Yeah I understand that and I think you're 99% obvtown, but remember from my position I don't have your role PM.
On December 18 2013 19:11 Blazinghand wrote: i'm supposed to be pretending to be asleep but DS9 is like poop tier compared to like, things that aren't DS9
You have shit taste in star trek, the only bad thing about DS9 are the random wormhole aliens. The characters are great though.
Presuming Xatalos didn't try to WIFOM us by wanting Rayn/Plutarch shot and leaving BH alive, I'd say that makes Xigxag look slightly better in terms of not being scum because BH was the only one interested in actively pushing his policy lynch. Opinions?
On December 19 2013 05:05 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Presuming Xatalos didn't try to WIFOM us by wanting Rayn/Plutarch shot and leaving BH alive, I'd say that makes Xigxag look slightly better in terms of not being scum because BH was the only one interested in actively pushing his policy lynch. Opinions?
XigXag has a pretty good chance of flipping town. I strongly recommend against lynching him. We're past the time for a policy lynch; we missed our opportunity. If he's scum, we lose, if he's town, we have a chance to win. That's all we can do.
You wouldn't even want to lynch him if everyone else looks townier than him and he stays (near-)afk?
On December 19 2013 05:05 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Presuming Xatalos didn't try to WIFOM us by wanting Rayn/Plutarch shot and leaving BH alive, I'd say that makes Xigxag look slightly better in terms of not being scum because BH was the only one interested in actively pushing his policy lynch. Opinions?
XigXag has a pretty good chance of flipping town. I strongly recommend against lynching him. We're past the time for a policy lynch; we missed our opportunity. If he's scum, we lose, if he's town, we have a chance to win. That's all we can do.
You wouldn't even want to lynch him if everyone else looks townier than him and he stays (near-)afk?
I'd want to lynch him, for sure. It's a hard call to make. But at this point we have bigger fish on the table. There is 1+ scum between grack and plutarch; that situation demands our attention. It's entirely plausible that Plutarch is town, and same for Grack. Let's talk about them. Talk about them. Talk about them. Let's talk about them. Talk about Plutarch and Grack
Let's talk about Plutarch and Grack. At least one of them is scum
One of Plu and grack is scum. let's talk about them.
I already see plenty of talk on them and all these scenarios flying around. I think flips will give us a lot of clarity. If Plutarch flips then the decision is already made. If he doesn't, then presuming a CC comes we'll have so much more information then than we do now that I see little reason to speculate about it right now. If no CC comes that's a ton of information too.
On December 19 2013 05:05 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Presuming Xatalos didn't try to WIFOM us by wanting Rayn/Plutarch shot and leaving BH alive, I'd say that makes Xigxag look slightly better in terms of not being scum because BH was the only one interested in actively pushing his policy lynch. Opinions?
XigXag has a pretty good chance of flipping town. I strongly recommend against lynching him. We're past the time for a policy lynch; we missed our opportunity. If he's scum, we lose, if he's town, we have a chance to win. That's all we can do.
You wouldn't even want to lynch him if everyone else looks townier than him and he stays (near-)afk?
I'd want to lynch him, for sure. It's a hard call to make. But at this point we have bigger fish on the table. There is 1+ scum between grack and plutarch; that situation demands our attention. It's entirely plausible that Plutarch is town, and same for Grack. Let's talk about them. Talk about them. Talk about them. Let's talk about them. Talk about Plutarch and Grack
Let's talk about Plutarch and Grack. At least one of them is scum
One of Plu and grack is scum. let's talk about them.
I already see plenty of talk on them and all these scenarios flying around. I think flips will give us a lot of clarity. If Plutarch flips then the decision is already made. If he doesn't, then presuming a CC comes we'll have so much more information then than we do now that I see little reason to speculate about it right now. If no CC comes that's a ton of information too.
There's one scum within Plutarch and Grack. Talking about them now forces people (like you) to stake out positions before the flips / check results.
We should talk about plu and grack
I think Grack's claim is highly unbelievable. I've already stated this. His claim came at an incredibly odd time and his push on Vayne didn't make any sense, nor did his response to the purple lynch.
Def good play by sidesprang. Curious what made you check me rather than JJD. I guess the options were limited after you already checked LSB and Alakaslam.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.towngreendistrict.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/lollipop-390x600.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qfo5xqd.jpg)
