TL Mafia LXIII: Time to Die - Page 8

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

November 20 2013 00:25 GMT

#3975

On November 20 2013 09:15 Pandain wrote:
Austin I just find it hard to believe that you can write so much and yet not try to figure out the most important thing in the game: who is scum

I can write shartloads, I love me some writing. I am a spammy mofo.

(1) Figuring out who is town is also helpful
(2) Getting information into thread is also helpful and pro-town

(3)

This one's for everyone, and you can take it up post-game if you'd like. On D1, we had a mayoral lynch. When it became clear that I was not a mayoral candidate, I can call anyone/everyone/nobody scum, and it has mostly the same effect on the lynch. On N1, we actually do not lynch anyone. I can call anyone/everyone/nobody scum, and it has mostly the same effect on the lynch.

I just did not care about finding major scum suspects then. I wanted people to speak up, wanted reads from x on y, wanted a nice atmosphere, because to me, those things were MORE important than who I might find to be scum on D1/N1. I don't have a gun. I didn't have a lynch vote, and I don't get to lynch at night. I'd rather spend my time getting people active and getting stuff into thread that I can look at later.

Finding out who is scum is the MOST important, but it doesn't happen on its own. Finding town, getting people active, there are LOTS of things that yield finding scum besides be going "HERP IS SCUM AND DERP IS SCUM."

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

November 20 2013 00:32 GMT

#3981

(4) I dislike thrawn and need to look at him a little more closely.

HERE'S A THING ABOUT THRAWN
Within 2 hours of joining the game, he wants me to give him a recap of D1. But not a recap, he really wants people who were active but I find scummy. But not that, he wants people who intentionally posted so as not to get noticed (hid in easy spots?). + Show Spoiler +

On November 17 2013 12:36 thrawn2112 wrote:
hey austin.. or whoever but austin I specifically want you to answer this... can you give me a recap of D1 with emphasis on people who were at least above the lurker threshold, but not one the main talking points of D1 because of sneaky reasons?

On November 17 2013 13:18 thrawn2112 wrote:
lol goddamn

can you give me tldr of that and focus on what I asked for you to emphasize? i'm less interested in a play by play and more interested on who you think has been "active"

On November 17 2013 13:28 thrawn2112 wrote:

Show nested quote +

yeah I read it. i did not want him to tell me who lurked and who didn't, I want to know if HE has scumreads as per what I asked him to emphasize

Show nested quote +

what i told kush. just forget about anything related to activity. who in your opinion has intentionally posted in such a way that caused them to avoid being talked about?

Couple things about that. (1) I don't like when people give moving target tasks. I want x, no I want y, no I wanted z. In this case, he wants a summary, but he actually wants my reads. And he wants my reads of active people, but no, he wants people who posted in a way that they avoided discussion (to me, active =/= that). (2) His conclusion, at the end of that chat, is + Show Spoiler +

On November 17 2013 13:58 thrawn2112 wrote:
yeah that's what I was looking for

Show nested quote +

dibs on BH I got this

Show nested quote +

lol you should have just said this o.0

So where do your reads lie and what do you think VE's choice of lynch says about his alignment?

i'm out for tonight. my only experience in a large game was as scum and the 100 pages of what austin told me amounts to a lot of trolling/fighting looks like a headache. hopefully 420 will help with that lol

VE please bestow that mind meld upon me

BH whats up talk to me baby

. Oh, you should have told me your reads aren't based on that. I'm out for tonight, based on what austin said D1 was a headache.

I gots two thoughts here. (1) he wanted a summary from anyone, but specifically me (focus there appears to be on getting a summary, he just replaced in); (2) at the end of our chat, he appears to be fine with the fact that my reads aren't in line with what he wants, and gives credence to my summary of thread (to me, this indicates that I'm not overly scummy. He doesn't call me scummy, he doesn't poke further, he seems happy with where things are at).

However, with no intervening posts, I become scummy - + Show Spoiler +

On November 17 2013 15:19 thrawn2112 wrote:

Show nested quote +

I will once he's answered. I didn't like how objective his WoT post was, I was looking for alignment related information (his reads) but what he gave was more of a play by play of the entire game. When I pressed him for scumreads he gave me MRCC and rayn, and the amount of analysis he gave me to back up those reads pales in comparison to the aforementioned play by play.

then there's his questions to you which I think he's being artificially stubborn with. I'm pretty sure I know what town austin tries to do with those and I would think that the answers you were giving him are more than enough for him to get a read.

so yeah, fuck your super town read lol

. I'm scummy for giving an objective summary. The thing he wanted initially. I'm scummy NOW for not giving reads, when it was fine earlier. This set of posts put thrawn on my watch list.

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: He asked for a summary of the day from anyone, particularly me, with emphasis on people who were active but scummy. He didn't want to read a summary, and never asked anyone else for a summary. He didn't like that my summary was objective. He moved his request from active scummers to people who were hiding. He seemed fine with my reads/lack of reads at first, and then only later decides it's a scummy point.

HERE'S ANOTHER THING ABOUT THRAWN
He's somewhat inconsistent. He doesn't like the amount of reads/reasoning I give. That's his thing with me.

On November 17 2013 15:19 thrawn2112 wrote:

Show nested quote +

This is his only actual post on my lack of reads. Which is coo. But the lack of analysis I add into reads is naughty naughty. Bad austinmcc, bad. (see rayn's posts for more of the same, but rayn's posts are from rayn, not thrawn).

However, compare to thrawn on pandain

On November 18 2013 16:52 thrawn2112 wrote:

Show nested quote +

lol at least you're honest about it

you do know that at some point you will need to talk about scumreads? if you don't have any scumreads why are you wasting everyone's time posting about nothing instead of filter diving or whatever?

make sure that your next post in the thread includes what I've asked for

I may be a bit biased here, but imo, this is treating similar things ENTIRELY differently. Pandain has no opinions except for BH/SS, on D2, and it's coo that he's honest about it and maybe in the future he needs to have scumreads pretty please. Compare to me being scummy for GIVING some reads, just not based on the shifting factor that thrawn wanted, just not giving them detailed enough.

Also note that, in his list of likely scummers,

On November 20 2013 03:12 thrawn2112 wrote:
in order of likeliness scum are grack pandain (one of HF or Austin, their mason chat was way too friendly and I don't detect any real suspicion coming from either of them) oats

pandain is #2. His #2 scumread (although this is over a day later when pandain = #2 scumread, we don't know how he read pandain at the time), was okay not giving scumreads, because he was honest and maybe he needed some in the future. However, it was most definitely not cool for me to only give a couple and not in the detail he wanted right when he had just joined the game.

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: thrawn (i think) finds me scummy for lack of scumreads/detailed reads, beyond 2 I gave him. thrawn half-jokes with pandain that it's okay he only has thoughts on two people, but maybe he should have scumreads later. thrawn is also more scummy on pandain than on me. This behavior does not make sense if he's town, as we should BOTH be scummy for this, especially if pandain scummy for other reasons and so already looks bad to thrawn.

HERE IS ANOTHER THING ABOUT THRAWN
For not entirely clear reasons, BH claimed assassin AND said he was fakeclaiming tracker to thrawn in alleged mason chat.

But Thrawn calls BH townie early today, sticks with it

On November 18 2013 08:41 thrawn2112 wrote:
panda i'll vouch for bh. he's been townily cooperative in mason chat

IF SOMEONE CLAIMS ASSASSIN AND TRACKER AND NOT REALLY TRACKER IN MASON CHAT WITH ME I DON'T THINK THEY'VE BEEN SUPER TOWNIE AND I MIGHT WANT TO BRING THIS TO THREAD'S ATTENTION EARLIER RATHER THAN JUST CALLING HIM TOWN BASED ON SECRET MASON STUFF.

I do not understand how Thrawn has handled his BH read and his releasing of mason logs to town IF he is town.

HERE IS I THINK ONE LAST THING THAT WILL TIE INTO A BC POST
Thrawn likes BC, finds him the towniest vet, and seems to agree with a lot of what he's posted. This is only important if you see the world as I do, and will be fleshed out with another post. + Show Spoiler +

On November 19 2013 01:29 thrawn2112 wrote:
BC are you calling rayn mafia? What's your srs-ness level on this rayn stuff?

Implying BC is to be given credence

On November 19 2013 01:45 thrawn2112 wrote:

Show nested quote +

oats read gracks filter. what has he done besides not commit to actual scumhunting and resort to trolling whenever people try to get him to commit to scumhunting? ignore mocsta. tbh I agree with BC 100% on his analysis of moc's posts concerning grack and BH has made good points about the possible interactions between moc/grack. but ignore all of that. what is your read on grack when you ignore all of that?

@BC

Show nested quote +

BC's mocsta/grack analysis so goooood

On November 19 2013 08:24 thrawn2112 wrote:
Hey super

Who do you want me to mason tomorrow out of:

VE
BC
yourself

On November 20 2013 06:43 thrawn2112 wrote:
STUFF

lol actually no i'm not lynching BC. imo he's the towniest out the vet group and I distinctly remember marv participating in a heated discussion about balancing teams

can everyone on BH look and panda and grack one more time?

On November 20 2013 06:57 thrawn2112 wrote:

Show nested quote +

why is BC scum? explain it in 3 sentences or less.

btw I don't think you answered my question, about "what is your impression of austin's impression of you during your mason chat"

So. I think that thrawn is scummy. I want to know whether other people see a different reaction to pandain/my lack of scumreads, or whether I am seeing things there. This influences my read. I do believe that he reacted differently, and that his reaction is not sensible, given his pandain scum read.

I would also like to know whether other people see what I'm getting at in the first thing. Moving target/delayed decision that I'm scum for a thing that was cool earlier.

Apart from that, now going to write up the BC post.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

November 20 2013 00:33 GMT

#3982

rayn, how many times have we played together? How many times were you sure I'm scum? How many times were you correct?

(THIS DOES NOT MAKE ME SCUM BUT YOU DO NOT APPEAR TO BE GOOD AT READING ME AND ALSO YOU CONTINUE TO NOT BE GOOD AT READING ME)

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

November 20 2013 01:33 GMT

#4057

Instead of dropping another giant post, here's a BC thing that I wrote as I was catching up.

BC attacks the mocsta/grack bit based mainly on mocsta's play in Personality 2. BC has good reasons for using that as a sounding board.

Looking over how Mocsta plays mafia in personality 2 has led me to a bit of insight into his current game. Given that it is one game that I have looked at as its one of the
A) large games
B) full of big names

I think its the best pool to work with.

Couple things. I was scum with mocsta in Personality 2. I didn't quite remember things the same. And I remember a different scum game of mocsta's.

(1) I coached town for one of mocsta's newbie games in which he was scum. VE, you coached the scum team, and I thought you'd talk about this but you did not and it makes me sad and I give you - town points for that. That's a minus, not a hyphen. (SHIT SHIT I JUST LOOKED AT THREAD AND VE ISN'T ALIVE ANYMORE AND HE'S A BUTT BUT THAT DOESN'T HELP ME HERE) (ALSO WTF THRAWN YOU WERE THE OTHER TOWN COACH WITH ME HOW DO YOU NOT REMEMBER THIS AND SPEAK UP AT ALL?)

Newbie 37 and Mocsta's filter therein

Just look at pages like...3-any other number. Mocsta's sole goal that game, from the very start, was to be very active and overall just a distraction to ANY useful discussion. He wants an RNG lynch. He fights with people who don't. He spams. He has SEVENTEEN pages of filter in a NINETY TWO page game (i.e., his posts are almost 20% of the thread). I repeat, mocsta is almost 20% of that game. Now, it's a newbie setup, so there are less players and that's more reasonable, but it's a NINETY TWO PAGE NEWBIE GAME MAINLY BECAUSE HE WAS SO SPAMMY AND GOT EVERYONE TALKING ABOUT NONSENSE AND CRAP.

He also talks to Mandalor, one scumbuddy, and starts to call him scum on D2. If you check his N1 will, his N2 will, mandalor is a scum suspect, and from D2 onwards he's top 2 scumreads. Mocsta PERFECTLY WILLING to interact with scumbuddies, but without raging at them/being emotional (In Newbie 37, mocsta is on mandalor's case for reasons, gives a read, isn't fighting with mandalor the same way he is with grack here). He does not mention sevryn, his other scumbuddy, at all (From what ctrl + F tells me?)

I specifically remember his play that game because it made me very scummy on him. There was no letup, it was just spam and misdirection. Mocsta took the keys to the game, drank a couple 40s, and zig zagged down the road while driving that game, singing christmas carols in his dirty underwear and throwing bottles at people.

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY: LOOK AT MOCSTA'S FILTER. ALMOST 20% OF THE GAME. VERY SPAMMY. PUSHES RNG. POSTS NONSENSE. It shows that he DOES think about the game, he plans how to act, but he's not necessarily careful with posting, he CAN absolutely post shitloads of crap if he wants.

(2) Personality 2 was wonky. Flawless scum victory, marv and foolishness infighting, us having the power to fake-flip corazon for like 12 hours and then town LOSING THEIR MINDS. Ver not even reading his scum role PM apparently. I don't know how super accurate it is for normal scum play (my normal scum play is way worse than in that game, fo sho). Not to mention that THE ENTIRE THEME OF THE GAME WAS TO PLAY AS SOMEONE ELSE. He was also masoned with promethelax as part of his themed power, at least for a bit, and could kill off his mason buddy.

His personality filter is here. If you go read it, like don't take BC's word, don't take my word, go read it, you see him tunnel towncora as scummocsta. It's not as ANGRY, this is true. There's lots of egging on, accusing cora of ad hominems, accusing him of never addressing what he should, about being concerned only with image, but if Personality 2 is 100% indicative of how scum mocsta interacts with townies, his back and forth with grack looks DIFFERENT than his main back and forth in personality (IF). And while he played MOSTLY serious, read towards the end of the game. You get stuff like:

On March 18 2013 10:56 Mocsta wrote:
WEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEEOOOWEE

THIS IS THE THREAD POLICE. LISTEN VERY CAREFULLY TO THIS PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT

Show nested quote +

If you read our QT (don't, it was like 1000 posts), you get stuff like post 836

doneski
and agreed

Q: What did the hurricane say to the coconut palm tree? A: Hold on to your nuts, this is no ordinary blow job!

or 829-831

mocsta, why the fuck are you pulling a scumread on me out of thin air?

mocsta, that post sounds so fake... no need to do unnecessary things. leave acro be

LOl i love the reaction

cos im bored.. its not gonna change anything

And more! Which is to say that BC's very neat and clean picture of mocsta as a super srs, thinks about his posts, is careful with what he posts, scumplayer is...not true. It's not true within that game. While a lot of his posts read serious, he WAS dicking around, and, and this is important, write it down, write it down, mocsta again KNOWS when he's being silly/spammy/stupid, he specifically can post things that aren't very planned and are off the cuff.

NOW PUT THAT TOGETHER
BC QUOTE

In fact he doesn't really like causing a ton of confrontation period. He carefully and calmly writes his posts. In Personality he opted to tunnel corazon until he died.

Mocsta is FINE with confrontation. We didn't NEED confrontation in Personality, because we stomped that game. He is HAPPY to spam, happy to post RNG nonsense, happy to dick around when he thinks game is done. Not careful and calm, imo, and NOT afraid of confrontation. We just didn't need confrontation in Personality, again, town just devolved with a couple pushes from us and we sat back and watched.

He makes basic comments on situations but only enough to appear active / fan the flames.

HE IS HAPPY TO SPAM WHEN HE WANTS TO DO THAT.

Now, BC is CORRECT when he says that the mocsta/grack interactions are DIFFERENT than any Personality 2 interactions. Mocsta DID fling some shit at cora that game, but in an understated way. However, THAT WAS ALL HE NEEDED TO DO.

BC is NOT correct in saying mocsta always careful with posts. Doesn't interact with team. Some of these other things.

I DO think that BC read Personality 2. I DO think he gave a quick summary of mocsta's play. BUT ---> I think BC missed the context of P2. I think BC did not read all mocsta's stuff. I know for a fact that mocsta can play very different scum games, he CAN be spammy and disruptive, and he can do that ON PURPOSE. i.e. --> him being careful isn't a thing, because he can be careful or spammy, either one, if he thinks it suits him.

GRRRR THIS POST IS TOO LONG I AM SORRY THESE ARE ACTUALLY REALLY SMALL THINGS I'M TRYING TO SAY. THIS HAPPENS IF I MAKE A COUPLE BIG POSTS IN A ROW, I WILL CLEAN THIS UP IN A SECOND WITH AN EXECUTIVE EXECUTIVE SUMMARY.

Look at BC's posts today. SO MANY are ... either (1) dealing with mocsta/grack; (2) assorted comments on BH's roleclaim; (3) calling out a bunch of players for being useless/garbage. What you don't see is him really...pushing any discussion FORWARD, apart from grack. If you agree with his grack read/his mocsta stuff, you think he's scumhunting and trying to keep people on grack. However, if you think grack is town/BC is mafia/BC is wrong about mocstameta, then what you see is BC actually doing little/nothing. He touches on some things, he calls grack scum over and over and talks about why, but, unless really prompted, he's not going outside of that. He's not PROACTIVE. He's entirely reactive/absent except for grack.

BLAH BLAH BLAH. I DON'T THINK HIS FILTER LOOKS GOOD AND IT'S TOO REACTIVE. I DISLIKE THE WAY HE CHARACTERIZED MOCSTA. I DON'T THINK IT'S ENTIRELY MALICIOUS/SCUMMY TO DO THAT, BUT I THINK IT'S A BAD GAME TO CHOOSE BECAUSE IT WAS THEMED AND MOCSTA WAS TECHNICALLY SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYING AS SOMEONE ELSE AND SCUM ROLLED THAT GAME AND ALSO MOCSTA IS ENTIRELY DIFFERENT IN OTHER SCUM GAMES = HE CAN PLAY TOWARDS A STYLE HE WANTS TO.

LAST THING. THRAWN COACHED THAT NEWBIE GAME WITH ME. HE SAW SPAMMY/DISRUPTIVE MOCSTA. HE HAS SAID NOTHING. I DON'T LIKE THAT AND I FIND IT SCUMMY THAT HE SUPPORT BC AND SAID BC MAKES 100% SENSE WHEN HE SAW SUPER SPAMMY UNFOCUSED MOCSTA GAME.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

November 20 2013 01:37 GMT

#4061

Oh hi rayn/thrawn log.

Thrawn, can you...can you explain to me a couple things? (1) How the me/pandain not giving reads thing worked for you, just...stream of consciousness throughout game? (2) Do you remember Mocsta in Newbie 37? (3) If so, Y U NO SAY SOMETHING? (4) If you read Newbie 37 filter, do you still agree 100% with BC's analysis of grack/mocsta? (5) If yes/no, why? And what does it say about BC to you?

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

November 20 2013 01:40 GMT

#4062

Yo that case sucks. Because it's mainly a two thoughts.

(1) Mocsta played a very spammy/disorganized/calling scumbuddy out game as scum. It's newbie 37. You can read it.

(2) Personality 2 is a bad game to look at. It was themed. Mocsta was supposed to play as someone else. We stomped that game. You can also see mocsta making plenty of jokey posts, because he was bored.

(3) I think BC's summary of mocsta's scum play is bad. Unsure if INTENTIONALLY MISREPRESENT or no.

(4) I think BC's play today has been analyze mocsta's scum play/say fuck a lot/comment on side matters.

(4) does not make me feel good about BC. He is too reactive, never proactive, and his mocsta stuff, the main contribution from him today, is not something I feel is super trustworthy/accurate.

I am also concerned about thrawn for connected reasons. Thrawn saw mocsta in Newbie 37. But he agreed with BC's analysis 100%. I want to know more about this.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

November 20 2013 02:30 GMT

#4100

On November 20 2013 10:57 Holyflare wrote:
Also austin why has your stance on mocsta suddenly changed in favour of lynching bc when in the mason chat you couldn't get a scum read on him???

+ Show Spoiler +

Austinmcc: There's nothing in his filter really for me. I think he misrepresented some stuff from storrzerg early on, but not in a way that screams scum. I agree with artanis that some of his poking has looked a bit opportunistic, but when I read mocsta's filter, I'm not really sold at him being scummy.

The only scum game I remember of mocsta's was one of his newbies and I was coaching town. He was relatively adept at....trying to do a thing, trying to post a certain way in order to get to x or y later down the road. I don't know if that's a constant theme of his games, but it made me think that he plays a scumgame aimed at setting up lynches/thoughts/pitting people against each other, and I don't get much of that from his play this game.

I think you're conflating two things?

My stance on MOCSTA was that I couldn't get a scumread on him. My stance on mocsta has changed because he flipped red.

My stance on BC yesterday was that I did not like his play, found him kind of scummy. + Show Spoiler +

On November 16 2013 11:28 austinmcc wrote:

Show nested quote +

He actively engaged me early when he didn't need to, which I found mildly townie.

His return post on grack I didn't care too much for. BC can make that post as either alignment, it doesn't say much. The most interesting thing in his return is the stuff at the tail end, the quick minor lists of reads:

Show nested quote +

That bit looks decent there, including the response to yamato, which I'm fine with.

But after being suspicious on rayn, he...he has this weird interaction. He asks rayn about risen, agrees to look at rayn's HF case, seems to find 2/3 of the 3 points rayn made on HF unconvincing + Show Spoiler +

On November 16 2013 01:59 BloodyC0bbler wrote:

Show nested quote +

On November 16 2013 01:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Here is why Holyflare is SCUM and should be lynched:
*also elect me as mayor*

On November 16 2013 00:42 Holyflare wrote:

On November 16 2013 00:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
You were implying i was scum earlier. I don't even know why because you never really told me.

I made a whole post on you, it's not my fault if you haven't read it. About 3 people have copied it since then so it's no excuse. You disregarded risen after 1 post and called him town for NO reason (you have rectified this since then) and called my post bad (lol) because you misread what I intended. You jumped over me on a campaign that was better than the other campaigns currently put out which seemed irrational and scum raynish but you have backed off since then and started to develop other reads etc.

1) I have never ever in this game called Risen town. Whoever says so does not make it true. There is nothing to rectify because i have not done so. Oats for example did ask me about it and i clarified why i said i will ignore Risen on D1. After that it has not been brought up. You on the other hand still bring up how I CALLED RISEN TOWN (false) and then rectified my statement (false). I ahve not changed my mind on anything so you are making shit up.

2) I clearly stated why your campaign is full of shit. Everything you said in the campaign had been brought up earlier in thread and there is no reason to write fancy non-alignment indicative words because the only thing that matter is that the mayor lynches scum. Period. Therefore the campaign is shit. Do you think BC/yamato/supersoft/VE/me/etc etc are all scum and don't really want to be mayor? Are we running for mayor? Why do you think we are not writing fancy posts about our awesomeness and plans on lynching scum as mayor? Because it does not make it anyone any more town and therefore those kinda campaigns are shit and mean absolutely nothing. So why did you write that post again?

3) Now you are calling me town for my reads. But that was not the reason you called me scum in the first place (lack of reads). How does my reads (oh they were also weak with no reasoning according to you) make me suddenly town when the reasons you called me scum for were something completely different? You can't even fucking know if i am right or wrong in my reads if you are town. So it makes no sense.

You are scum and making shit up.

You didnt actively call him town but you did say you would ignore him and won't consider him for now. I can see this being stretched to "calling risen town" but yes you never actually said those words. Ignoring a player in full though tends to make people think town read.

I don't think him having a non alignment indicative campaign is a bad thing. I would argue that making a "huge pro town" one is actually hard to do. Campaigns are required if someone seriously wants to be elected but past that their actions determine if they get elected. I would never elect HF based on his election post but I also wouldn't kill him for it.

Point 3 has a ton of merit and looks bad. I honestly prefer a grack / storr lynch at this point but if HF keeps this behaviour up we will have a solid #3 to the list

but is willing to consider HF as a third option for lynch.

The train of thought there, as I read things, is: (1) rayn is on my watch list; (2) rayn made this case; (3) I don't like 2 of his 3 points; (4) the 3rd is good therefore I will consider rayn's target maybe scummy. Within the development of BC/rayn, I never saw BC call out rayn as TOWN, or specifically like anything rayn said and find it super awesome. Which leaves me wondering why rayn, who was suspicious a moment ago, has a single good point and two bad points on HF, yet HF now jumps up BC's lynch list.

He engages Artanis which I like okay, gives Artanis a task, follows up, has clearly actually looked into Grackaroni.

Overall, the BC read on rayn/HF is confusing to me, and I would like to hear what he was thinking throughout that. Otherwise, I don't want to lynch him, but I really really really don't want him in office. I think his grackaroni suspicion is supported by real stuff, but it's stuff he can find well enough as town OR mafia, and there's nothing in his filter that makes me confident he's actually town. A lot of his posting has been addressing side issues (his hatred of trolling, his thoughts re: storrzerg's newbieness or lack thereof), and if you eliminate side issues and grackaroni, his filter is very very meh (hopeless should post more/better, AMG SUCH A TOWNIE THOUGHT).

I think that IF he's very obviously town, he's a fine person to slap a vest on. But I do not read him as such, and I would not want him voted for anything right now.

On November 17 2013 03:20 austinmcc wrote:

Show nested quote +

Still of the mind that his big post on grack/storr is not something to draw a read off of. I don't know about you, i THINK it was Acrofales and not you that I was scum with once and we were chatting about opportunities to make very townie housecleaning/scumhunting posts in the middle of shitfights while being scum.

HolyFlare and...was it rayn? Yes. Were fighting, being spammy, trying to take control of the thread and rayn was really trying to get discussion centered on his HF case. There were a LOT of folks not being examined yet, it was early, and I think BC as town OR scum would notice that thread really needs a half-decent case at someone in that un-examined group to (a) turn discussion towards something more fruitful and (b) get AWAY from rayn/HF.

It's not scummy to do that, but it's not as townie as other people make it out to be.

The rest of his filter...there's a lot of side stuff. Discussions over ss and VE mayoral candidacies. Questioning yamato's townieness re mayor/pardonership. Apart from his one sizeable reads post, I see way more discussion of side issues or sniping at little things than I like. Towniest thing in his filter for me is him pointing you towards a specific grack game to read. But for all his posts, there isn't much of substance.

Certainly don't want him elected, mildly scummy on him. Just way too much about hating trolls, skorr not being a noob, hopeless not having contributed enough, who should be mayor, it's all...not scumhunty, and it rarely/never leads anywhere.

My turn. If I may, let's mix things up a little. BOTH ONEGU AND HOLYFLARE, GO!

And a bunch of other posts where I ask people about their BC reads, ask for updates, etc.

Or in mason chat - "I'm currently not loving BC, not loving cheesecake, not loving lonemeow (but I have zero experience with the guy), and generally not very sure on anything." (/m57)

The way that BC has acted today has not improved my read on him. He has continued to be mainly involved in side discussion, and where he interacts with the mocsta flip reads, I find his interaction to be...questionable at best.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

November 20 2013 02:45 GMT

#4109

On November 20 2013 11:34 Holyflare wrote:

Show nested quote +

On November 20 2013 11:30 austinmcc wrote:

On November 16 2013 11:28 austinmcc wrote:

Show nested quote +

On November 16 2013 01:59 BloodyC0bbler wrote:

Show nested quote +

On November 16 2013 01:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Here is why Holyflare is SCUM and should be lynched:
*also elect me as mayor*

On November 16 2013 00:42 Holyflare wrote:

On November 16 2013 00:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
You were implying i was scum earlier. I don't even know why because you never really told me.

On November 17 2013 03:20 austinmcc wrote:

Show nested quote +

And a bunch of other posts where I ask people about their BC reads, ask for updates, etc.

Your stance on mocsta was you couldn't get a scum read because he wasn't demonstrating anything you saw that applied to the newbie game. His red flip should not change this at all. BC is scummy for the reasons I linked in my post.

His red flip changes my read on him, yes. I am now 100% convinced that mocsta was scum.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

November 20 2013 02:48 GMT

#4112

rayn, ss is very likely town.

Also, if you think he's mafia and i'm mafia, I chose to make him pardoner and not mayor

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

November 20 2013 02:56 GMT

#4116

On November 20 2013 11:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Show nested quote +

Yeah and pardoner is pro-scum role and better than mayor if the mayor lynches town on D1. Also as people have said supersoft said he will lynch Mocsta. So i don't see the problem here.

I will draw a picture for you in a bit.

The problem is that methinks you are wrong about ss's alignment. And meknows you're wrong about me. And the scenarios you are creating don't really make the BEST sense. So I think you need to reexamine.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

November 20 2013 03:31 GMT

#4131

On November 20 2013 11:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Show nested quote +

Don't twist the argument. You said it does not make sense for you two to be scum i said it makes perfect sense if you are scum. Now how does it not make sense if you are both scum again?

It doesn't make perfect sense. You can FORCE it to make sense if you super want to. But it doesn't sit there and make sense.

Pardoner is a nice scum role, but it's only REALLY good at the end of the game. Mayor gives you a free lynch, NO CHANCE of some asshat townie ruining your game by lynching mafia. I don't think you can actually say, "NO! THIS ROLE IS BETTER. THE END! RAWR!"

You're also really focused on him saying he'd lynch mocsta. He MIGHT have lynched someone else. But you don't know that, and you have absolutely no reason to believe, based just on his posts then, that he wouldn't lynch mocsta. You THINK he's scum for other reasons, so you work his comment on mocsta to make sense from a scum POV. But, on its own, you have no reason to believe there's a lie there.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

November 20 2013 03:41 GMT

#4135

On November 20 2013 12:33 Grackaroni wrote:
I don't even see why pardoner is a good scum role. If somebody I want to lynch gets pardoned I'm just going to lynch SS.

It's best at/near endgame to spring as a trap and cut a day off town's count, maybe preserve a crucial NK at the very end.

It's not very good early/mid, or at least NOT on a more veterany player, because you give yourself up to save someone else and that's maybe not a good trade

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

November 20 2013 03:49 GMT

#4139

On November 20 2013 12:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
lol are you guys fucking dumb?
If supersoft is scum he is now one time lynchproof and we can't even vig him because he has a vest so yeah, pardoner not a good scum role totes...

This bit is important though

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

November 20 2013 03:50 GMT

#4140

On November 20 2013 12:49 Holyflare wrote:

Show nested quote +

On November 20 2013 12:30 Grackaroni wrote:

On November 20 2013 12:18 Holyflare wrote:

On November 20 2013 12:11 Grackaroni wrote:

On November 20 2013 12:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:

On November 20 2013 12:02 Grackaroni wrote:

On November 20 2013 11:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:

On November 20 2013 11:56 austinmcc wrote:

On November 20 2013 11:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:

On November 20 2013 11:48 austinmcc wrote:
rayn, ss is very likely town.

Also, if you think he's mafia and i'm mafia, I chose to make him pardoner and not mayor

Yeah and pardoner is pro-scum role and better than mayor if the mayor lynches town on D1. Also as people have said supersoft said he will lynch Mocsta. So i don't see the problem here.

Don't twist the argument. You said it does not make sense for you two to be scum i said it makes perfect sense if you are scum. Now how does it not make sense if you are both scum again?

there's still the fact that SS had absolutely no way of knowing that VE would show up for the lynch.

I have fucking explained that three times already. There is no guarantee ss will in fact lynch Mocsta.
How the fuck is it so hard to read the thread? This is why i need to post all the stuff many times, people do not read.

lol I was the one arguing with you about this earlier. And that's still dumb; you don't play Russian Roulette with a 2 shot vigi for no reason. He had no prior suspicion of Mocsta. No scum player would put themselves in a situation like that where they would be really likely have to back track and claim scum to the thread. VE wasn't even voting for himself to get elected.

You get in these tunnel visions and it hurts your reads. Take a break and think about it later. He's really unlikely to be scum.

VA already brought up that when SS mentioned he was reading into mocsta austin switched his vote to VE. What do you make of that?

I think that's silly. I really doubt it went down like you are implying.

SS: "Oh shit Grack said Mocsta. Nothing I can do now but bus Mocsta and hope VE wins mayor and shows up for the mayor lynch that he was trying to give to me"
Austinmcc "Daaaaaamn better switch to VE hehe!"

I am not implying ss is scum. I am implying austin could be.

scumaustin I don't think has ever been this dumb. You're suggesting that i read ss LOOKING AT mocsta, and within the same minute, post that I'm moving my vote, despite already saying the order I wanted and why I had voted ss in the first place (and noting that someone had moved onto ss so I didn't need to be there anymore).

Ya, same minute.

But not nefarious. MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

November 20 2013 21:46 GMT

#4312

rayn, are there any of your scumreads in particular that, if they flipped town, would really really adjust your other reads (and how)?

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

November 20 2013 21:47 GMT

#4313

Possibly disregard the above, I was working off an old version of the thread. One sec

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

November 20 2013 22:02 GMT

#4317

On November 21 2013 06:50 Koshi wrote:
austin do you love me for defending you?

Naw. I like that you are reading and thinking about the game though

But it takes more than that to earn my undying love.

On November 21 2013 06:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Show nested quote +

None. I don't do that.

Okay.

So grack, is there a...a reason to lie here?

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

November 20 2013 22:28 GMT

#4330

On November 21 2013 07:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
austin i don't like your case on thrawn at all. It seems to be based on some old game thrawn in your opinion should have read but didn't. Isn't that pretty weak?

The case isn't purely based on that. Also, he was coaching that game. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume people read games they coached in.

Look at the way he treats my lack of reads, both the difference between his IMMEDIATE reaction and his later reaction. Then look at the difference between how he treats my lack of reads and pandain's lack of reads. To me, those things indicate that he's not actually working the game out, because he's reacting ... incorrectly? Or differently, to situations that are similar. (A and B are scumreads. A and B both do a thing you find scummy. For A, it's rainbows but then wait, no, it's scummy. For B, it's otay).

Beyond that, regardless of whether he actually read/remembers Newbie 37, look at the difference between his reaction to BC's meta-argument and ... say Mig. Mig looks through mocsta's filter, to see if BC is pulling out only what he wants to. Mig concludes that mocsta attacked way more people than BC says, and calls BC out on it. He critically attacks BC's argument.

Thrawn 100% agrees with BC's meta-argument. He does not appear to look for other instances of mocsta angry/insulting this game, from what we see. He does not appear to look for other instances of scum-mocsta and see whether or not BC is just cherry-picking a game/certain arguments.

Granted, A WHOLE FRIGGIN LOT OF PEOPLE seem to have blindly accepted or dismissed BC's argument without looking critically at it (Personality 2 was themed, in Personality 2 we were supposed to be imitating other people, Personality 2 was a flawless victory for mafia so unsure if it's 100% indicative of how mafia would act in a normal game, etc., yet Personality is the one and only scummmocsta game used for comparison). But thrawn was already on my watch list, and the way that he reacted to BC's mocsta/grack stuff felt different than anyone else's reaction to it.

If BC is mafia, then I think both the different reactions to Pandain/I, the way he was initially questioning me, and the fact that he reacted differently to hypothetically-mafia-BC's grack/mocsta stuff than anyone else at the time all indicate he da mafia.

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

November 20 2013 22:37 GMT

#4335

Which bit don't you follow?

austinmcc

United States6737 Posts

November 20 2013 22:47 GMT

#4339

On November 21 2013 07:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Austin:

I have to agree i did not really care about BC's meta-reference of Mocsta and it might be i should have looked more closely into it. I also agree it's weird thrawn seems to be thinking BC is the towniest of the vet group. I have no idea why he thinks so.
hmm..

I disagree with your/Pandain's lack of reads. I have no idea what you are referring to but thrawn thinks you are both scum, and tbh Pandain has given out reads pre-N2 and you did not. That's a fact, you had zero scumreads besides a weak read on some lurker i don't even remember and a scumread on me which you told HF not to follow.

I also disagree with that thrawn should have looked into some old games. I know a lot of people do not remember old games, even from last month. I hate that because i know i do remember them (as you seem to aswell), i could probably give quite accurate playerlist from LoTR mafia from 2011 and the happenings each phase, but really.. most people don't. I don't think that isa good reason to accuse someone. If it was the last game or even close to present, it could be a reason. In this instance i think it's kinda reaching.

Past games is fine, I do tend to remember them heavily.

Thrawn does think we're both scum. Couple things though - I think that if you look at players I mentioned as scummy. Not called out super heavily and said HEY VE LYNCH THIS GUY LYNCH THIS GUY, but if you look through my filter and my mason chat, you can identify people I found scummy - cheesecake, BC, LM, and you.

You're considering, as like 3 of your top couple reads, BC, LM, and myself. Which I find odd, given that two of the people I was really pushing for reads on, and actually GAVE scummy reads on, were BC and LM on D1.

But that's a side matter. I'm fine if you want to discount not remembering past games well, I couldn't tell you what others did in that game, except for a few people that were actively seeking coaching, but I remember specifically that there was a newbie in which mocsta was scum and shat all over the thread. So the no remembering is fine. But his reaction to BC throughout is wonky.

As far as pandain and I, i'm not arguing we're different. I'm saying Thrawn's response to my lack of reads and his response to pandain's lack of reads were different. Same conduct, from two scumreads, but a different REACTION from thrawn towards that. I interpret that as him making reads up, because his reaction to the same/similar conduct should be same/similar, given that we were both scumreads of his.

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