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I find this incredibly odd:
On October 28 2013 18:19 Koshi wrote:
I read the thread. I don't like Promethelax.
Who states that they've now read the thread? Especially given this:
On October 28 2013 17:17 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2013 13:47 Oatsmaster wrote:
Ok koshi called me 3p for having a charge role thing. I dont know what it means, but generally town dont call people 3p day 1 because there is no way to know. Scum do know though.
I called you 3p because you needed everybody to power you up. I understand you might have been joking or overstating it. I wasn't 100% serious.
Content unimportant, it's more the fact it was posted an hour prior to the first post I quoted. And within this post, he is responding to something a few pages back, so he'd clearly already been reading the thread?
I'm not actually sure what it means, but it stuck out to me like a sore thumb. Why announce that you read the thread like this? :/
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On October 28 2013 16:32 OOHCHILD wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2013 16:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 28 2013 15:57 OOHCHILD wrote:
I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I have an important question for those who have not yet fully claimed.
Could your power belong to either town or mafia? Mine could. I would like to ask a counter-questions (which should answer yours aswell). What would be a role that could not possibly be a role for both alignments? Also why is this so important? After I answer you, this conversation is done as far as I am concerned. Just know that you should not expect me to answer any follow up questions you have.I don't know. I do not trust you to understand this complicated idea, so I am not going to waste my time trying to explain it.Nice to meet you Raynpelikoneet. Your name sounds like it belongs to a species of beautiful, tropical parrot!
This is the attempt I'm going to make to reach out to you. I'm doing so under the assumption that you're a new(er) player.
Firstly, and it's been mentioned already, there is absolutely no reason to shut down discussion like you have here. If you're town, then being open and frank about your thought process is an exceedingly good way to prove your alignment, which is obviously a pretty damn important thing.
Secondly, you have absolutely no reason to condescend to someone like you've done here. It might be vaguely understandable if you were a known excellent player who had the clout to condescend, but you aren't (as far as I'm aware). There is literally no benefit to belittle rayn like this while he is trying to question you.
My problem with you, and it's a large one, is this. On one hand you are doing:
1) telling people how they will have conversations with you, arrogantly condescending to you
and on the other hand you are doing this:
2) going "oh gosh, i want to vote for this player, how do I do it hehehehe?" (my sexy paraphrasing)
This is a pretty unfortunate mix of arrogance and playing the newbie card.
If you're town, shape up.
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That sounds plausible, especially with the way you continued to go after Prome afterwards. It's quite possibly me making something out of nothing.
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On October 28 2013 21:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I hope you didn't finish already marv..
Why not? I see no reason to force things 12 hours or so into the game. I've said what I want to say for now.
Weird that you're having a go at me for this when in Hogwarts Mocsta+Hopeless+possibly others had a big go at me for "only" talking about revealing houses when a bunch of other stuff had gone on in the thread.
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I don't know what I make of Pandain right now, or I would have told you what I make of Pandain.
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On October 28 2013 22:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2013 22:16 Oatsmaster wrote:
I dont actually think he will play scum the same way as he did previously, that was a long time ago, but this game fits a lot into town marv. He doesnt wanna talk about people he doesnt want to talk about.
i dunno, its hard to express for me. But it doesnt feel like marv is trying to trick us into powering him up. I just read scum!marv and town!marv D1's and this apathy of his does not fit into each one of them. Then i read Catch 22 and it doesn't fit into there. I have no fucking idea what to think. 4th party? Since when has marv not commented on the leading lynch candidate in no way as any alignment?marv what do you you want to talk about? Or are you just going to watch what happens and then what? And why?
Literally my only relevant towngame is Hogwarts mafia. Mafia games, look at whatever the deuce you like. To the bolded, I don't know why I'm having to repeat myself, but I literally totally declined to comment on the main thing being pushed in the thread near the start of the game in Hogwarts. I've no idea how you're missing this given you're in that game yourself, or given I've already said it once this game.
Oats and Cottoncandy have both provided the correct reasons why I can be viewed as town at this stage (not that I'm stating I should be viewed as certain town, before you have a bitchfit). Perhaps you should pay attention?
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On October 28 2013 22:27 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2013 19:24 marvellosity wrote:On October 28 2013 13:04 Seuss wrote:On October 28 2013 12:55 Promethelax wrote:
Seuss, no more role fishing without purpose. What do you think about oats and why?
Rayn, I'll take you at your word that your power usage isn't alignment indicative at the moment. I'm sure you can figure out what I was getting at. I still like pandain for the moment based on his try Harding. I do t have meta on him so I get to read him on his play, a nice early try hard adds so e green points for now.
Cotton candy, if you are so anxious to type why not say something useful. Early reads? Sorry, I was just really surprised at how much people were throwing on the table day 1. It's kinda like all the major town roles soft-claimed in a giant explosion of nonsense. Normally this would be a stupid thing to do, but then this game setup is pretty wonky.Oats is pretty confrontational and terse. He doesn't really address Pandain's concerns about rayn in a meaningful way, but just laughs him off. I don't really follow his [UoN]Sentinel scum/town rayn/Koshi logic because it isn't spelled out at all, it just sort of is. So right now I read him as slightly scummy, but he could just be town who isn't communicating well. We had a lot of those in my last game. You see this followup doesn't make sense. If Seuss is surprised/disappointed at how people were coming out and claiming asap, why then exacerbate the situation by making multiple comments with relation to guessing what these roles and powers were? If you're concerened about people claiming early, why then guess at powers and even ask other people to guess at powers? Someone a little more clever than I am and more experienced in mafia could probably make reasonably accurate guesses as to what their powers do Boo. I'm an analyst. At the heart of my approach to mafia is finding all the puzzle pieces and putting them together. You can go back to the recent newbie mini mafia game and look through my coach QT with WaveOfShadow and see that it's exactly what I was doing there as well. When I'm given information I try to make sense of it and fit it into the puzzle. Perhaps it was a little egotistical of me, but the purpose of my post was largely admonishment. I wasn't asking others to guess at powers, but pointing out that revealing powers for no reason was stupid because people could guess at them. A bunch of people pulled out their powers immediately, several of whom (including you!) had to backtrack because apparently now wasn't the appropriate or best time for it. That, and the flurry of thoughtless power ups, is what got me in a tizzy. You've let the mafia know you have powers at a point in the game where you apparently don't even want to use them. I don't see how that's good town play. I wouldn't be so mad/confused if I knew you all had good reasons for bringing out your powers, and if I could be certain all of the powers coming into play are town powers.
I have powers to use night 1 that I can only use with people's cooperation on Day 1. Your 'admonishment' is totally out of place when you do not know the circumstances with which people are talking about their roles.
Given that it was made *extremely* obvious by how people posted in the thread that their roles required the cooperation of other people to work (my twerk, sentinel, prome, one or two others i forget probably), your entire angle is totally out of place. I can also tell you free of charge that you can't possibly hope to guess what my powers are based on what I've asked people to type or what people can probably guess my role name is. But no, don't consider this, just criticise...
Like, your last sentence... What's the alternative? If both town and mafia need cooperation to use their powers, then they're going to try to achieve said cooperation. Bitching about it is ridiculous.
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On October 28 2013 22:31 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2013 22:20 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 28 2013 22:16 Oatsmaster wrote:
I dont actually think he will play scum the same way as he did previously, that was a long time ago, but this game fits a lot into town marv. He doesnt wanna talk about people he doesnt want to talk about.
i dunno, its hard to express for me. But it doesnt feel like marv is trying to trick us into powering him up. I just read scum!marv and town!marv D1's and this apathy of his does not fit into each one of them. Then i read Catch 22 and it doesn't fit into there. I have no fucking idea what to think. 4th party? Since when has marv not commented on the leading lynch candidate in no way as any alignment? marv what do you you want to talk about? Or are you just going to watch what happens and then what? And why? Hmm. Marv in Noir was not really pushing anything hard D1, it felt like he was gathering reads. D2 he fixed that and concentrated more on specific people but still didn't rally town to vote for Cephiro and then N2 he guaranteed Cephiro scumread. LastArgument was an awesome guy but also didn't rally town to vote D1 in Hogwarts. He didn't comment too much on Cephiro except say that his big post was enough to not vote him D1 and then later asked Cephiro some questions. His vote on Palmar was simply explained by "sheep syllo". Marv plays to town meta. But I guess he can emulate that as scum because he is marv.
I'd say this was a reasonable and balanced outlook on my play + surrounding meta so far.
But as a point of my own ego, I repeatedly pushed town to lynch Cephiro on Day 2 :/ But that's totally irrelevant :D
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Does it matter if I refudiate you now or just before Day ends?
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Correct on Miley btw.
Then I don't know why I'd refudiate you now rather than later, when I should have a firmer idea of your alignment. Sound reasonable?
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On October 28 2013 22:41 Clarity_nl wrote:Hi guys, I'm caught up. No tweeting for me. So far I dislike Oats and like Prome. Show nested quote +On October 28 2013 12:39 Oatsmaster wrote:
Yeah I think marv is town for mainly that post and the fact that he didnt come out guns blazing. Baseless townread on marv is baseless. Show nested quote +On October 28 2013 19:52 Oatsmaster wrote:
marv, who other than seuss are you looking at as scum? Show nested quote +On October 28 2013 20:15 Oatsmaster wrote:
Marv what are you seeing about prome? Town or scum? Because that kinda affects whether I fix my thing now or NEVER. A bit too early to start sheeping someone. Maybe if he replied to marv's answers but he does not. Other than that Oats has pointed out a lot of things but not concluded anything about the things he points out. But mainly it's his reaction to WoS's post: + Show Spoiler +On October 28 2013 14:01 WaveofShadow wrote:
Just popped in to say ##Paranoia I don't like your play this game either Prom.
Your first post yelling at everybody not to be powering everybody up....I completely agree with.
I just wouldn't have expected it to come from you.
You take it a step further though---you say not only is powering other people up dumb, but you say it's policy lynchable.
Have you pursued this course of action in your questioning of all of the people who have done so thus far?
And THEN, not 4 posts later, you explain to everybody how to power you up.
This reminds me of the very first ever game I played with you Prom, LX, in which you created some horseshit RNG talk early 'just to get discussion started' and you were promptly lynched for it---and flipped red.
So Prome, your reads list at the start of the game. All I remember is you saying you'd lynch me based on my entry to the thread. I don't see you pursuing your policy lynches, your apparent scumreads or your 'discussion.' Funny part is' you never actually call me scum, you just say you'd lynch me based on me entering the thread and leaving, and even THEN you don't pursue it, and have not mentioned me even once since then.
Your activity is pretty fantastic and all, and I get that you think Pandain tryharding is also pretty fantastic, but that don't mean shit imo. It's funny though, you say you'd rather base your read of Pandain off of what you get from him this game only and ignore his past meta, but you're ok to base your weak early read of me on meta even though you haven't played a game with me in ages?
You are incredibly inconsistent just from your first few posts and I don't like it. I don't like it one bit sir.
Care to discuss?
##Vote: Promethelax
Oats replies (intentionally or not, it's a minute later): Show nested quote +On October 28 2013 14:02 Oatsmaster wrote:
super #mindblown by Prome's play today if hes town.
Which is either reactive to WoS's case on Prome, or not, doesn't matter. Thing is, Oats just expressed a definite interest in Prome being possible scum. WoS made a case on the person that Oats just drew attention to, so what does oats have to say about that? Show nested quote +On October 28 2013 14:02 Oatsmaster wrote:
Lol WoS, prome explained what we needed to do to power him because I asked. Nothing apparently.... He just wanted to correct a detail in WoS's post. If Oats was genuinely concerned about prome being mafia, why does he not take this opportunity to talk about it? All he did was say "if town, then bad" which does nothing, pressures nothing. It's posting for the sake of posting.
Yuck.
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Depends how long you have Wave. Basically it would take me a little time to gather the shit that I think makes Prome probably town, and I'd want to know why you disagreed.
If you're going to be here for an hour, I'll go start digging, otherwise it can wait.
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On October 28 2013 22:43 Clarity_nl wrote:
Whatsup marv? You disagree?
Literally nothing you wrote is alignment indicative, it's *especially* not alignment indicative for Oats, and you should know that.
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Wave - The long and short of it is this, Wave - I think Prome is being too much of an arrogant ass to be mafia. Now, as you know, usually I have large reserves of faith in my powers (I can be arrogant ;p) but Prome is taking it to another level. So:
On October 28 2013 13:58 Promethelax wrote:
I the resisting = interesting sorry Seuss, my tablet is a butt munching ass licker.
Rayn, fair enough points. I approve and find you townie. As such you and I and maybe Marv are starting a townie circle, which I have the power to create.
It takes remarkable confidence imo to propose creating a town circle with you at the head of it. I'm relating this back to me, but as mafia even I struggle to propose/say these sorts of things.
On October 28 2013 14:00 Promethelax wrote:
Oh, point I wanted to make about koshi saying oats was 3p for being able to be levelled up by non town:
Koshi is scum.
I'll leave this to another power upper to explain as it should show them I am town and show me they are town.
Again with the ridiculous self-confidence. As if whatever his read is definitely makes him town, which it almost certainly doesn't. Townies rather than mafia tend to think "this SO makes me town" even when it doesn't. Toad is a prime example of this (say LIX, where his mason claim "confirmed" him town when it did no such thing). It's a double whammy because he also thinks that someone else with a power explaining it to him will make him town. All of this seems hard to fake as mafia.
On October 28 2013 14:30 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2013 14:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 28 2013 14:20 Promethelax wrote:On October 28 2013 14:11 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 28 2013 14:08 Promethelax wrote:On October 28 2013 14:01 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 28 2013 13:58 Promethelax wrote:
I the resisting = interesting sorry Seuss, my tablet is a butt munching ass licker.
Rayn, fair enough points. I approve and find you townie. As such you and I and maybe Marv are starting a townie circle, which I have the power to create.
Oats, why should I power you up? You think I am scum for a bad reason and are generally a silky bastard who I would not give roles to this early. Remember carnival cruise where you never crumbed your cop checks and in death cleared a scum? You can stay powerless thanks. If you think everyone should be powered why have you not powered me and Marv? The two best payers with power up abilities.
Pandain, the fick are you doing? Why announce your return and vanish again. ##twerkSince when are you good at blue Prome. I really dont expect this from you prome. You shit on me for no reason, and you havent called me scum yet, but arent willing to argue your reads with me or do anything to convince people that someone else is scum. You should power me because you think Im town and you havent said im scum. I don't think you are scum. I think you are town. Two reasons I won't power you: 1 is [redacted due to ongoing game] 2 you don't need a power role right now. There are few people who use day 1 power roles really well and you aren't one, if you were mod confirmed town I'd give you power but the risk reward between giving a scum you power and a town you power is not worth it. Since forever am I good at blue. Look at my MS games or chronotrigger or...that might be all my blue games. What. You wont give me powers because you think Im bad? Non of my powers can hurt town, but they are nice to have. If you think Im town, there is literally no reason to not give me powers. I'm not sure I can be clearer, I think you are town lets out a number to it (this will make the rest of this example easier to show you) I'm 65% sure you are town. There is a 35% chance you are scum. I believe that the way you would use a power role as scum would benefit your team at least twice as much as the way you using your power role as town would benefit your team. Thus I chose not to power you up because I felt the cost benefit analysis suggested that voting you would be more helpful to scum than to town. Rayn, weigh In Here, am I being clear? Y/n Yes, and i think you think alike me regarding the powers. Could you give me an updated read on Pandain? I could but its too early to be clear with each other. Lets play a game: This post is the one I find most alignment indicative Tell me why and which alignment I think he is
I think this post is pretty bad, and his subsequent reasoning for it isn't fantastic either (it's a little superficial in my opinion). But again, I see it as town bad. See again how it's like he's framing it that OTHER townies can show their alignment to HIM by working out what he's talking about. Again, hard to fake as mafia.
These are the prime examples, but generally his filter reads as him being way too arrogant, assuming the townleader position, seeing things and quizzing others to see if they see the same as him ----> they are town.
I think that's all quite impressive if he's mafia.
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On October 28 2013 23:01 Promethelax wrote:
marv, that is kind of a subtle read. Not super subtle but like not a read I'd expect a newer player to have.
As soon as I typed this I realized WoS isn't actually all that new anymore, carry on.
Clarity. Explain what oats is doing here that is out of character for him. Unless he started making sense and not doing stupid shit/changing his mind all the time this is totally in line with his meta AND that meta applies to both alignments so even if he wasn't doing that (which he is) it wouldn't be alignment indicative. I'd get you the venn diagram but I think you get my point.
This is just an aside, but I've come to value Wave's opinion. Easy example is LXII where Wave got somewhat suspicious of me on Day 1 because I kept asking him specific things and for explanations for reads.
So basically I want to see if he understands what i'm saying and if not, why not, and hopefully I can get something useful out of it.
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On October 28 2013 23:10 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2013 23:01 Promethelax wrote:
marv, that is kind of a subtle read. Not super subtle but like not a read I'd expect a newer player to have.
As soon as I typed this I realized WoS isn't actually all that new anymore, carry on.
Clarity. Explain what oats is doing here that is out of character for him. Unless he started making sense and not doing stupid shit/changing his mind all the time this is totally in line with his meta AND that meta applies to both alignments so even if he wasn't doing that (which he is) it wouldn't be alignment indicative. I'd get you the venn diagram but I think you get my point. So despite me harping on you for your meta read of me, you just realized this? Marv I actually had a townread on someone else this game for something very similar but that was very late last night and I can't remember who it was exactly. Not the arrogance but the quizzing and confidence that people 'see him as town and here's why.' I'll try to look back and figure out where it was I came up with that. Essentially your read to me makes sense, and I'm glad it is for reasons that didn't occur to me/are not related to my case since that gives me more to think about. I'm always a little bit wary of giving experienced players townreads based on mafia not being so upfront and arrogant though because there are definitely people very capable of that kind of play (ie Pandain). I guess in Prome's case it's mroe the mindset behind that type of play and his posting? I'll have a closer look.
I think it's kinda easy to make a case against Prome, and Prome will verify that I often find his opening post or two really really scummy (I PM him about it in shock, or comment on it if I'm in a game). I just think the attitude/mindset trumps it.
Btw, I understand what you're doing with your analogy with Pandain, but it's different. Pandain basically calls himself obviously town, but doesn't really display the supporting stuff like Prome has, in my opinion. One interesting thing to note is that I formed my opinion on Prome in a ten-page catch up on the thread this morning, so I got to take the "wider" view, as it were.
On Seuss, I'll take your read under advisement. I still hate how he went about his criticisms, but his subsequent responses at least feel earnest. I'll judge him on the rest of his play.
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Most of the case on Pandain seems to come down to him playing bad or weird. But I don't know what that means. Someone said to me after I died about Pandain flipped mafia in Hogwarts - "I should have known, he was posting too sensibly". So, yeah.
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Similar, I stated earlier I don't know what to think of him, and that remains the case. The thing I dislike most still is that he thought rayn's original Incinerate was real, when if he had just done any reading of the rules or Crossfire's post about 3 above his, he would realise it was fake. And that's not much to go on.
Like rayn's point about Pandain's confidence, I don't see why that would be a scumtell in any way for Pandain; as referenced earlier, Pandain happily calls himself totally right and confirmed town as mafia.
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Koshi - same question to you as to Oats, does it make any difference if you're powered up now or at the end of the day?
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The key point on Pandain is whatever I say it is, s&b, and you're just describing bad/weird again.
Could Pandain be mafia on his play so far? Yes. Could he also be town? Yes.
I obviously haven't missed what you're describing, I just don't put anything strong on it.
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EPT
