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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 09 2013 16:48 GMT
#5655
On October 10 2013 01:46 VayneAuthority wrote:
so who is moer likely to do kills like this, austin or cheesecake?

That is a good question. I am a bit torn because the night actions and Ballers' play points towards Austin.
But if i analyze Austin/CC individual play Austin looks less scummy.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 09 2013 16:49 GMT
#5656
Vayne:
Did Austin or CC call you scum in Aperture?
Did CC call you scum in Noire?
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 09 2013 16:55 GMT
#5658
Do you remember Austin and NWM?
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 09 2013 16:59 GMT
#5661
Oh dat game and Ace. My fault for not convincing you guys and totally misreading Austin's reaction.. :/

Hmm, I am kinda wondering why CR flipped his read on Austin upside down. Reverse-psychology?
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 09 2013 17:15 GMT
#5664
On October 10 2013 02:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Is there any argument for why I'm scum besides conspiracy theory? I'm way more active as mafia. Could I post my PMs with s0lstice and get modkilled? Lol #noire

If I flip this game, remember to think twice about Austin. He looks pretty town, I think scum is between Vayne / WoS despite Rayn saying he won't lynch either of them.

Could you make a decent case on WoS/Vayne, and could you tell why you think Austin is town?
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 09 2013 17:16 GMT
#5665
Also could you answer me about what i wrote on you before?
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 09 2013 17:23 GMT
#5670
CheeseCake, when you make a case these are the things i especially want you to contribute to:
(1) Solstice payphoning you. How does the scum guys actions on D4 make sense regarding that happening?
(2) N4, and CR claiming scum, and the scum guys actions regarding that.
(3) D5, CR retracting from the scumclaim when seeing Pandain flip and then claiming scum again. The scum guys actions regarding that.

(4) How does WoS/Vayne's actions make sense from scum pov in those situations, and why? I have been trying to consider all possibilities and i do not see it. I just can't see it.

(5) Why does Austin not fit into scum!profile considering what has happened D4 onwards?
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 09 2013 17:23 GMT
#5671
On October 10 2013 02:19 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
If I had the time, I'd make cases. My problem lies with vayne/wos buddying up, I think one of them is scum that needs to have a friend in this time of need. When I made posts about CR being possible scum, WoS jumped all over me and told me they were bad. He also tried to discredit me the entire time when s0l was up for lynch. I'd lynch him first. Vayne I'm not so sure on. I haven't seen a game of his where he didn't troll as town, and this game he's active and stuff. It's weird.

Austin is probably town because of the way he handled the s0l lynch. Like, every other person and their mother just voted s0l and fucked off. Even CR, mafia. I'm more inclined to think mafia just sat with their vote on s0l rather than make huge posts considering if Koshi was mafia or not.

So how is this different from you/Austin buddying up now?
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 09 2013 17:25 GMT
#5673
The post i just quoted is really bad, because Solstice/CR WERE busses. They were bussed by scum. WoS didn't bus them, not in scummy way. His action seem legit D4 ->.

I don't understand what you are trying to say because Solstice and CR lynches [i]were designed to be a bus![/b]
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 09 2013 17:27 GMT
#5674
Austin want's to lynch VA..
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 09 2013 17:31 GMT
#5676
On October 10 2013 02:28 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Why the fuck does CR claim scum? It makes no sense from any perspective. I think he's just terrible.

But he did. You should, as town, at least try to figure out why.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 09 2013 17:35 GMT
#5679
On October 10 2013 02:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:
CheeseCake, when you make a case these are the things i especially want you to contribute to:
(1) Solstice payphoning you. How does the scum guys actions on D4 make sense regarding that happening?
(2) N4, and CR claiming scum, and the scum guys actions regarding that.
(3) D5, CR retracting from the scumclaim when seeing Pandain flip and then claiming scum again. The scum guys actions regarding that.

(4) How does WoS/Vayne's actions make sense from scum pov in those situations, and why? I have been trying to consider all possibilities and i do not see it. I just can't see it.

(5) Why does Austin not fit into scum!profile considering what has happened D4 onwards?

This is where this game boils down to CC.
If you are town, please, do try. I don't want to mislynch again because someone doesn't try to play the game.

I can give you the guidelines into what to look for. You need to do the work in case i am missing something. Right now you are not making much sense.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 09 2013 17:50 GMT
#5681
Anyone except VisceraEyes, this is what i want you to do on N5, or at last on D6;
Wo is the last scum and why, considering these things:

(1) Solstice payphoning CC. How does the scum actions on D4 make sense regarding that happening?
(2) N4, and CR claiming scum, and the scum actions regarding that.
(3) D5, CR retracting from the scumclaim when seeing Pandain flip and then claiming scum again. The scum guys actions regarding that.

(4) It is clear that D4 onwards scum were bussing and bussing hard. Who is the last scum and why do their actions from D4 onwards make most sense from scum!pov?


VE: One of us is gonna die the next night. You, or if scum have 2 KP they might double stack me. Look closely into those answers, consider what i have said, and if it does make sense when you cross-reference that into other people's answers. If someone does not answer this post, lynch.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 09 2013 18:09 GMT
#5685
If someone claims scum there is a reason for it. We have now 2 scum claimed scum. There is a reason for it. Someone from you four has acted "according to plan", there is a plan.

I want your opinion on who is it and why.
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 09 2013 18:17 GMT
#5688
On October 10 2013 02:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Anyone except VisceraEyes, this is what i want you to do on N5, or at last on D6;
Wo is the last scum and why, considering these things:

(1) Solstice payphoning CC. How does the scum actions on D4 make sense regarding that happening?
(2) N4, and CR claiming scum, and the scum actions regarding that.
(3) D5, CR retracting from the scumclaim when seeing Pandain flip and then claiming scum again. The scum guys actions regarding that.

(4) It is clear that D4 onwards scum were bussing and bussing hard. Who is the last scum and why do their actions from D4 onwards make most sense from scum!pov?


VE: One of us is gonna die the next night. You, or if scum have 2 KP they might double stack me. Look closely into those answers, consider what i have said, and if it does make sense when you cross-reference that into other people's answers. If someone does not answer this post, lynch.

Actually guys, i need to tell VE something important regarding this before the night ends, and there is a possibility that i die, so post your answers before Night ends.

If you think some of these point-of-analysis is not important include the reasoning for it into your analysis.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 09 2013 18:33 GMT
#5691
Austin FYI none of you guys have pushed any of Solstice/CR/Pandain before N3 end (i mean really pushed -- i don't count some crappy votes or "cases" that were shit), besides Vayne labeling Pandain as scum as soon as Noire ended & Palmar flipped.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 09 2013 18:51 GMT
#5694
On October 10 2013 03:08 austinmcc wrote:
One question for me is whether s0lstice was legitimately trying to get Koshi lynched early after his claim. IF he's actually trying to push a Koshi-lynch, like really thinks he can do this, then he's gotta be making legitimate points.

Basically, he has a couple actual reads which we can't entirely trust, but also more situationally-oriented posts like this:
Show nested quote +
On October 07 2013 02:50 s0Lstice wrote:
On October 07 2013 02:39 Koshi wrote:
On October 07 2013 02:34 s0Lstice wrote:
On October 07 2013 02:29 Koshi wrote:
The only thing I dont get is why s0lstice ever thought this would work. Like cc is town now or the other scumteam are honest and respectful mafia players. This means the pool of possible scummers get really small. I am almost feeling WoS&Austin same scumteam but that is really crazy.

Like you need 6 votes on me s0lstice. How was that ever going to work unless you had the entirr other scumteam working with you. Like why not try and yet cc lynched... It makes me think you.put all eggs in CC basket and then went full funzies for your last day. But then again, you would get lynched after me. So is this not against your wincon??? You dont win when I am lynched. You just make the other scumteam win...

So yeah. You play vs own wincon or.scumteams are teamed up atm.

Probably last...



I like when scumbags make my argument for me. There's a reason it's hard to find the scum motivation for this.

Just humor me and tell me why you do this as scum. As completely illogical as it is. You are last banger and you try to lynch the real cop. How is this going to help your wincon? You agree there is no way?


There wouldn't be much motivation for me to do it as the last banger. There is no scenario where it isn't suicide basically that I can see off-hand. That would mean if I am scum, it's gotta be the 3-man team. Even there, like I wasn't in a terrible spot. People suspected me but I don't think I was in any real danger. It doesn't even depend on how much control scum think they have on the game. In the end, if I am lying, I'm dead anyway so it's a one-for-one trade. So either scum feels fucked and they decide to do a bogus cop claim to....what end exactly? A TON would still have to go right for them to have a path to win. The cop would have to get lynched (unlikely), then the other team would need to cooperate (I think? need to look at numbers again) and they would need to miss vests. Or scum feels good and they decide to do an inefficient 1 for 1 trade despite feeling in control?

He's scum. He's three man scum. He KNOWS he'll flip eventually and be outed. But is he trying to make sense with this post, be honest, and maybe get Koshi lynched? Or is the mindfuckery already beginning.

IF this reads legitimate to you, it implicates CC. Why would 3 man do this, why would they make the 1 for 1 trade if they feel in control? They wouldn't so there has to be another benefit. The benefit to VA/WoS/CC/me that came out of solstice's thing was that CC looked a little better for outing solstice.

If the mindfuck has already begun, can't trust it anyway.

The question is do you think if it's legitmate or not? And why? I have already given my analysis of the situation and tbh you look the worst given this Solstice thing because of your "do not lynch into the cops plan". We now know it in fact was a bus. Which kinda bus it was and why? Did scum want Solstice lynched, CC gain town credit from it because of the payphone? If so, why? Did CC need town credit? I want you to tell me this, not ask questions.

I have given scenarios that make sense to me, and WoS & Vayne do not fit into those scenarios. On D5 i have given my analysis on CR and why he claimed scum, and it fits into my analysis from D4. Why am i wrong? What am i missing? I know i am right on the fact that it was a plan by the scum team, and the plan was to keep Pandain alive for the extra KP. You can't deny that, or if you will, tell me why? Why would scum out themselves when there are at least one confirmed townie + 1 unconfirmed person who will push Pandain lynch on D4? What gives? How do scum benefit from outing themselves? Not only once but twice.

What's the point of CR retracting from his scumclaim on D5? Pandain flipped, that's the obvious reason. If you disagree with this, why? And why would he claim scum again later on? What's the point of not fighting?

I have answers, but i can't say i am 100% sure. I know one of you has the answers because one of you is scum. I want to see what you make of the situation because at this poinst there is going to be 6 different analysis and only one of them is from scum. I want to analyze the scenarios to have a better overall view of how different people engage these situations and why.
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 09 2013 18:58 GMT
#5695
I mean, i know how all of you guys approached this. Now i want the thought process behind your actions, given that the situation is what it is. How have things changed in light of new events?

I could understand each of WoS/Vayne/CC thought process on D4. On D5 i can't understand CC either, and you Austin look a bit better. I am 90% sure one of Austin/CC is scum. I do not know which one of you it is. That's why i am trying to understand. I also want WoS/Vayne to help the town to make it 100% sure they are town (or make it 10% -> 100% they are scum).

Town has lost the past games because they got sloppy. Do not get fucking sloppy now.



I have read all of your filters from start to finish. I can't find anything before N3 that makes anyone scum. People interact with scumbuddies or do not interact with them. I can't tell anything from those actions, given that this is a multi-scumteam game. That's why i think D4 -> is important. Of course if you find something and disagree, point out why i am wrong.
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 09 2013 19:04 GMT
#5698
Another thing i would like to have answered is this:
BlazingHand was hit N1. I was pretty surprised as only people (besides now confirmed town) he called scum was WoS. Why was Blazinghand hit? He wanted me dead. Noone used that against me from that point on while they could have. Not even Palmar. Could this incriminate WoS and if so, why? Why has noone brought this up at any point in this game?
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raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
October 09 2013 19:08 GMT
#5701
On October 10 2013 04:02 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 10 2013 03:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On October 10 2013 03:08 austinmcc wrote:
One question for me is whether s0lstice was legitimately trying to get Koshi lynched early after his claim. IF he's actually trying to push a Koshi-lynch, like really thinks he can do this, then he's gotta be making legitimate points.

Basically, he has a couple actual reads which we can't entirely trust, but also more situationally-oriented posts like this:
On October 07 2013 02:50 s0Lstice wrote:
On October 07 2013 02:39 Koshi wrote:
On October 07 2013 02:34 s0Lstice wrote:
On October 07 2013 02:29 Koshi wrote:
The only thing I dont get is why s0lstice ever thought this would work. Like cc is town now or the other scumteam are honest and respectful mafia players. This means the pool of possible scummers get really small. I am almost feeling WoS&Austin same scumteam but that is really crazy.

Like you need 6 votes on me s0lstice. How was that ever going to work unless you had the entirr other scumteam working with you. Like why not try and yet cc lynched... It makes me think you.put all eggs in CC basket and then went full funzies for your last day. But then again, you would get lynched after me. So is this not against your wincon??? You dont win when I am lynched. You just make the other scumteam win...

So yeah. You play vs own wincon or.scumteams are teamed up atm.

Probably last...



I like when scumbags make my argument for me. There's a reason it's hard to find the scum motivation for this.

Just humor me and tell me why you do this as scum. As completely illogical as it is. You are last banger and you try to lynch the real cop. How is this going to help your wincon? You agree there is no way?


There wouldn't be much motivation for me to do it as the last banger. There is no scenario where it isn't suicide basically that I can see off-hand. That would mean if I am scum, it's gotta be the 3-man team. Even there, like I wasn't in a terrible spot. People suspected me but I don't think I was in any real danger. It doesn't even depend on how much control scum think they have on the game. In the end, if I am lying, I'm dead anyway so it's a one-for-one trade. So either scum feels fucked and they decide to do a bogus cop claim to....what end exactly? A TON would still have to go right for them to have a path to win. The cop would have to get lynched (unlikely), then the other team would need to cooperate (I think? need to look at numbers again) and they would need to miss vests. Or scum feels good and they decide to do an inefficient 1 for 1 trade despite feeling in control?

He's scum. He's three man scum. He KNOWS he'll flip eventually and be outed. But is he trying to make sense with this post, be honest, and maybe get Koshi lynched? Or is the mindfuckery already beginning.

IF this reads legitimate to you, it implicates CC. Why would 3 man do this, why would they make the 1 for 1 trade if they feel in control? They wouldn't so there has to be another benefit. The benefit to VA/WoS/CC/me that came out of solstice's thing was that CC looked a little better for outing solstice.

If the mindfuck has already begun, can't trust it anyway.

The question is do you think if it's legitmate or not? And why? I have already given my analysis of the situation and tbh you look the worst given this Solstice thing because of your "do not lynch into the cops plan". We now know it in fact was a bus. Which kinda bus it was and why? Did scum want Solstice lynched, CC gain town credit from it because of the payphone? If so, why? Did CC need town credit? I want you to tell me this, not ask questions.

I have given scenarios that make sense to me, and WoS & Vayne do not fit into those scenarios. On D5 i have given my analysis on CR and why he claimed scum, and it fits into my analysis from D4. Why am i wrong? What am i missing? I know i am right on the fact that it was a plan by the scum team, and the plan was to keep Pandain alive for the extra KP. You can't deny that, or if you will, tell me why? Why would scum out themselves when there are at least one confirmed townie + 1 unconfirmed person who will push Pandain lynch on D4? What gives? How do scum benefit from outing themselves? Not only once but twice.

What's the point of CR retracting from his scumclaim on D5? Pandain flipped, that's the obvious reason. If you disagree with this, why? And why would he claim scum again later on? What's the point of not fighting?

I have answers, but i can't say i am 100% sure. I know one of you has the answers because one of you is scum. I want to see what you make of the situation because at this poinst there is going to be 6 different analysis and only one of them is from scum. I want to analyze the scenarios to have a better overall view of how different people engage these situations and why.
How is the solstice lynch a bus? Like, the only person that could "bus" solstice is CC making a fake payphone claim.

As far as the rest of the game, half you guys weren't willing to consider that solstice COULD be the cop, so what does scum gain from "bussing" like that? EVERYONE is in a single pocket, there's no cred for x or y except for cc.

If the goal is to bus solstice, then I DON'T make sense, because you seem to think I came out looking WORSE for the day. You're suggesting that, if I'm scum, our team decided we would toss away solstice and that I would play to look scummier for the day. That's not a bus, in my mind. And it's not a bus for WoS or VA, because they don't come out looking particularly anti-solstice there. If you actually think bus, you think CC, imo.


Honestly, CR either claims to keep the other team alive OR because the claim/unclaim thing looks very much like his town games. The reason he got lynched in town games is fake votes on people he thinks are town, to see if scum will try to mislynch those guys, and little tricks like that.

It was a little late in the game to suddenly do that, but...the claim/unclaim thing is honestly the towniest-CR thing that CR has done. I don't think it's necessarily to confuse people or protect x or y, it may very well be because THAT POST looks like town CR, and he's not entirely wrong that scum has no reason to claim scum. So...I disagree with the premise that CR is claiming so as to protect or influence someone else, and I think it's more likely he's trying to protect himself.

Yes, the lynch was probably pandain or CR today, and his claim helps cement it on himself. And his unclaim and dick around fits either scenario - no way to protect pandain OR no more ability to make yourself look townie and get the lynch ON pandain.

Currently of the mindset that it's NOT scum trying to save pandain, because they were at 2-1, and if we lynch CR for claiming scum, teams are at 1-1. I don't think DRB wants to save Pandain so much that they're willing to sac their numbers advantage. They now are in a worse position relative to town AND the other mafia team. So I believe that CR's claim was for his own benefit, trying the claim/unclaim thing to try and appear town.

(Yes, you read that correctly)

No Austin, this is wrong.
If CC is town you cannot know what happens when you make the plan. Maybe CC is the last banger. Maybe he will take tha bait. Maybe the scumteam wanted CC to take tha bait and reveal it in the last second as Solstice claiming cop and 100% incriminating CC.

Maybe scum wanted both of Sol/Koshi to live. No confirmed townies yet -> both live onto D5, noone except VE can be trusted. I do not know what happened. You can't say "people believed Koshi, that's why XYZ" because you do not know if people do believe Koshi over Sol before it happens.
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