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On September 22 2013 19:36 Zaragon wrote:I don't read either Tofu or DP as scum right now. The problem with that is, they could both be, playing off each other, as it would be a good time for that. Still, I'm going to assume they're town for now since the other line of thinking is currently not useful. Especially since Tofu suspects VE, who I have had a bad feeling about all game.+ Show Spoiler +I don't see any other reasoning for going after DP at this point as scum, I hope DP will elaborate about why he thinks there is. Oh and from earlier: On September 22 2013 09:26 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 09:23 justanothertownie wrote:On September 22 2013 09:20 ObviousOne wrote:On September 22 2013 09:17 justanothertownie wrote:On September 22 2013 09:05 ObviousOne wrote:
Do you have thoughts about that post or no? It says almost nothing. You're so adorable. What does it mean to you that it says almost nothing? That's the point of the game. So you think only scum posts like that? On September 22 2013 09:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 09:37 justanothertownie wrote:On September 22 2013 09:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So JAT if someone posts something that's mostly fluff your thoughts on it are "big deal?", why? Because in my experience town does it all the time, too. It's not that it doesn't matter but if you want to convince me the dude is scum you should give me more reasons. Yeah you are right. It does not mean he is scum. But it's a post that serves no purpose. It says nothing. You should be by default curious of his intentions for making the post. It helps you getting a better read on him and it helps out people getting a better read on you. Townies should care about finding scum, bad posts should be called out. I wrote exactly what I thought. That it is more likely to come from scum. Does that outright eliminate him as town? No. But since fuck-all is happening I'm trying to make something happen. So you have completely avoided answering this question. It's kind of important to note that the question wasn't important, the fact that you haven't answered it yet though is very interesting. Do you think I'm scum? It was a bedtime post. But I'm glad you made some kind of use of it, even if only Rayn comes out looking slightly scum from it, to me. Rayn, would you say that your posts have generally had more substance than the one you pointed out? If we assume that asking what someone else thinks is not substance. Noted. Did you feel the justification/approach to that conclusion (VE is leaning scum) was similar?
I dont fully get his read on VE personally. As half the thread has buddied to DP by calling him town. Technically anyone of those people can adopt the line of through FT thought was applicable solely to VE.
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On September 22 2013 19:58 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 19:55 marvellosity wrote:
Indeed. I'd rather like an explanation for what, exactly, the difference is to make what seems to be the same thing a tell for the opposite alignment. He said he did it on purpose as a way to read me. Like he was intentionally inconsistent so that he could see if I would pick up on it or not. This was all discussed on the previous page. I don't buy it. Clearly. As I am voting for him.
Yeah, its easy to get butt hurt over stuff like that.. but.. in my experience 9/10 its town that do stupid stuff like this, and sometimes create even stupider cover stories because they dont want to admit they are wrong.
Im still sussing out whether I think FT fits into that category.. as in, whether he is that 1/10 that is scum.
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On September 22 2013 20:45 Zaragon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 20:01 marvellosity wrote:
Zaragon, your filter has basically nothing of substance on VE, other than "feels", and "potentially a mafia VE might play this way if both these dudes are town".
Elaborate please. That's what it boils down to. His timing and input with his posts at that time seemed very deliberate, acting as catalyst for a town vs town fight and at the same time establishing himself as being on DP's side. Even his emotional responses felt too deliberate to me; I can't define that as it's mostly gut. It's day one, so any read--for me at least--works under the assumption that someone is linked to someone who is likely either town or scum. Any suspicion I have is still weak, and I won't pretend otherwise. I missed my window to go after him with sharper phrasings.
So.. what do you make of VE dropping his issues with Geript once I presented a counter-point?
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On September 22 2013 21:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:Oh right. Could you elaborate on the reasoning? Waht makes Sentinel's vote on Coag worse than Koshi's on VA? (I assume you are voting for Sentinel because of his vote as you gave no reasoning for the vote besides a link to his post - am i right?)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071¤tpage=53#1049
As for why sentinal > koshi
Mainly because Koshi has still been responsive to pressure etc; and at times has commented on important thread matters.
Sentinals filter just reads as blendy shite; and the vote was over compensated for what it was.
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On September 22 2013 21:22 Zaragon wrote:
So.. what do you make of VE dropping his issues with Geript once I presented a counter-point?
Felt like softening his play as scum. Makes sense as town as well, though, it really was the sort of discussion where you can have an emotional reaction about something you might reread later. If he hadn't been a significant part in inciting the emotional part, it would be neutral; as is, suspicious[/QUOTE]
I dunno what "softening his play as scum" means.
I thought it was suspicous because he dropped his read based on my counter-point so easily. What i wrote was my own insight, but certainly also far from fact.
I personally was expecting him to hold his point of view, and counter, my counter-point.
Unless of course I was that convincing. DP kinda suggested later that may have been the case.
Perhaps this point of discussion isn't worth pursuing then.
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On September 22 2013 21:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What are the important matters Koshi has commented on and how is Koshi's responses to the pressure townie?
I dont believe I said Koshi response made him town.
As for the stuff Koshi commented on, it was mainly the back/forth I had with him.
Im not against re-raeding Koshi. i plan to do a re-read tomorrow (literal; not cycle). I hosently, cant be bothered filter diving him currently though. Im only posting right now, because you asked me a question.
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Yes, tahts quite clear. I understand the key to our differences.
My mindset on Koshi is based on the first couple hours of the game; and now we are 24hrs + in, I haven't updated my read.
Thats kinda why I said discussed important matters.. because my last recollection of him was that, when 3/4 of the thread was afk, he was still willing to chat with me.
Overall, those points look pretty bad for Koshi.
I can dig him over Sentinel for Day1; but I still need to do my re-read first. Sleep now !
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yam needs to join the newbie league
learn to play.
i already addressed your pittance of a "case" against me.
P.S. the chairman vote is terrible.
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now that koshi was getting some traction; compared to anyone else.
its odd, the timing of yamato post including the "i ignored koshi post"
he comes in like a hero.. and isnt even reading the whole thread.. what a douche
##Unvote
##Vote: Koshi
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On September 22 2013 22:20 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 18:42 FirmTofu wrote:
As much as I dislike DP's play this game, DP's response to me is making me warm up to him. It is reminiscent of classic town play.
Townies know they are town. Therefore, when people call them scum, they instinctively believe the accuser is "bad" or scum. After all, they are town and they know that the accuser is wrong. This knowledge makes them act in anger and frustration when defending themselves.
Classic thought process: "How could this asshole accuse me? I'm town! I've been playing super pro-town all game and this guy is saying I'm scum? He must be a terrible player or scum."
While DP's anger toward me could be manufactured, it feels rather genuine. Scum DP is actually more likely to only argue the entire game than town DP is. Honestly, DP refusing to do anything OMGUS people the whole game is not a point in his favor, it is a point against. You should know better, because in Persona, he was actually somewhat useful despite there being arguments in the game. Unfortunately, if DP is mafia, you're probably just bad. This whole situation between you and DP is entirely too convoluted for two scum to have constructed. And yes, I am calling DP mafia, for the record. He can very well play this game properly and not like a butthurt noob. Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 21:13 DarthPunk wrote:On September 22 2013 21:09 WaveofShadow wrote:On September 22 2013 21:02 DarthPunk wrote:On September 22 2013 20:42 WaveofShadow wrote:Hey DP, I don't know if this is your first fucking rodeo or something, but hey guess what? People accuse each other of shit all the time! Both stupidly and intelligently alike! Welcome to mafia! My suggestions is calm your tits and play the game without resorting to the angry tone, again either fabricated or real. Scaring FT away doesn't do a whole lot for us but it certainly makes it easier to accuse him of being scum which appears to be what you want? Now if you please, have a look at my earlier post for me and if you have any thoughts on the matter I'd like to hear them. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071¤tpage=51#1005 I've played the same way for a long time. I am not changing just because you say so. See, but that's where I don't believe you. I've played games before with you in which you were not this constantly incensed. I'll go have a look at those now, actually, because it may in fact be that as you say, you only get this way when people accuse you of being scum. That's pretty hilarious actually if true especially considering you say you're 'not meta-able.' I do it as scum too. So no. not meta-able. Also I'm playing league. I will post when i feel like it. Pro-tip: Don't listen to a player's opinion of their own meta. Or take "I do this as scum/town, too!" as a valid excuse for legitimately scummy play. Wave has picked up on the same thing that I've picked up on, and it makes me feel very good about this read. I rescind my early scum read on Wave.
Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 20:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
FirmTofu why is your play completely different from Desert? As in, he's actually posting? This line of questioning goes nowhere, because in recent memory, FT has simply not posted and been lynched for it. As town. Questioning the difference is completely pointless. Something is off with Rayn this game. His questions are generally stupid, but he's a special kind of useless so far and it's begun to seriously bother me.
RE: VisceraEyes Still pretty scummy and useless. Can be scummy and useless as town. Not necessarily a good lynch. His alignment will be clearer the longer the game goes on.
RE: Mocsta Has toned down his play to some extent but his early game still bothers me. His outright refusal to respond to me is ridiculous and a pathetic excuse to not face your accuser. I think he doesn't want to argue with me because he knows I can catch him. If Mocsta was town, I would have expected a far more vehement response to my accusations than "blahblah I didn't even read Yamato's posts except for the part where he called me mafia. Totes not true."
Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 09:57 Chairman Ray wrote:
Hey everyone, this is my first post here. Sorry I haven't been around since the start since I was pretty busy, but I'm definitely going to dedicate a few hours today and tomorrow doing my best to contribute.
This is my third game of forum mafia. I have played real time mafia as well. Even though I'm a lot less experienced than most people here, I'll pull my weight just fine and I don't expect any newbie lenience.
Last game I learned that it's quite difficult to get strong reads on people during the day. Most my reads at the start were quite off. A lot of town said scummy things, and a lot of scum were quite pro town. However during the final hour when thing started being messy, there were strong reads everywhere. So this game I will try to focus on making things very difficult for scum during the last hour. If a town ends up being lynched day 1, I want as much information to come out of it as possible.
So feel free to ask me anything and I will try to be as transparent as possible. If I see something fishy, I will definitely try to flush you out as well. This dude is now the best lynch in the game, for quite obvious reasons. ##Vote: Chairman Ray Btw.. this type of post is I believe, why yamato was nailed as scum by Ver in Sicilian.
Starts off with.. DP is scum.. yet ends up with a vote on Chairman.
Well done Noob-mato77
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On September 22 2013 22:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 22:40 Mocsta wrote:
now that koshi was getting some traction; compared to anyone else.
its odd, the timing of yamato post including the "i ignored koshi post"
he comes in like a hero.. and isnt even reading the whole thread.. what a douche
##Unvote
##Vote: Koshi Your post is saying "yamato is scum" (as the next post aswell). Why vote Koshi instead?
Because, a lot of the thread likes Yam; and a case will be required.
Koshi, not so much.
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On September 22 2013 22:56 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 22:20 yamato77 wrote:
RE: Mocsta
Has toned down his play to some extent but his early game still bothers me. His outright refusal to respond to me is ridiculous and a pathetic excuse to not face your accuser. I think he doesn't want to argue with me because he knows I can catch him. If Mocsta was town, I would have expected a far more vehement response to my accusations than "blahblah I didn't even read Yamato's posts except for the part where he called me mafia. Totes not true."
Wait. Wasn't yamato talking earlier about how scum mocsta was more aggressive/dickish? and now he is saying he would town mocsta to act that way. That makes no sense.
Nice pick up.
Ver strikes again. Is that liek 4 out of 5 games, yam is scum?
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On September 22 2013 22:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 22 2013 22:53 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 22:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 22 2013 22:47 DarthPunk wrote:God now yamato thinks I am scum too. Based on me doing something I do as town in many games. Seriously look up ego and mario mini's. If you think me not 'scumhunting' and solely defending myself is scummy based on meta those games will disprove that fact. Clearly though. I have asked questions and scum hunted. I am actually not sure what yamato is saying here because I was pressuring FT on his reads and the consistency of his narrative. Which lead to a thoroughly scummy result. Honestly if everyone is going to call me scum stupidly then I am just going to ignore you all. On September 22 2013 22:20 yamato77 wrote:
Scum DP is actually more likely to only argue the entire game than town DP is. Honestly, DP refusing to do anything OMGUS people the whole game is not a point in his favor, it is a point against. You should know better, because in Persona, he was actually somewhat useful despite there being arguments in the game.
Unfortunately, if DP is mafia, you're probably just bad. This whole situation between you and DP is entirely too convoluted for two scum to have constructed. And yes, I am calling DP mafia, for the record. He can very well play this game properly and not like a butthurt noob.
this is a vast oversimplification of what I have, in fact been doing. I am not playing like a butthurt noob. For the record. I was relentlessly attacked by geript and tried VERY hard to not engage his blatant baiting. Then I had a productive (in my mind) talk with FT in which it became pretty clear to me that he was scum due to the inconsistencies in the claimed reasoning behind his reads. To be honest I am just about done playing with the Yamato's, Geripts and Firmtofu's of the world. Could you look at Koshi and what do you think of Mocsta's recent posting? I have had a town read on mocsta for a while now. After a weirdly funky start he has been questioning and engaged with the thread. And when he says things it seems he has actually read and understood the thread which is more than I can say for most of the people in this game.I still need to read koshi's filter. But he has certainly been a non event in this game. The Key thing is whether that is because he is actually not doing much or because he is flying under the radar. I actually got the opposite feeing of him due to his stance on Koshi a while ago. Then he voted for Koshi and followed it with two posts that say "yamato is mafia". Re-read. My posts dont get any blunter than what I wrote. It is what it is. Take it or leave it.
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On September 22 2013 22:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 22:56 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 22:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 22 2013 22:40 Mocsta wrote:
now that koshi was getting some traction; compared to anyone else.
its odd, the timing of yamato post including the "i ignored koshi post"
he comes in like a hero.. and isnt even reading the whole thread.. what a douche
##Unvote
##Vote: Koshi Your post is saying "yamato is scum" (as the next post aswell). Why vote Koshi instead? Because, a lot of the thread likes Yam; and a case will be required. Koshi, not so much. Okay wtf Mocsta?
??
Are you trying to tell me, that if you had two or three scum reads; you just random dip which one you push.
Sometimes its based on % to flip scum
Sometimes its based on getting town buy-in.
Jeez.. stop playing so naieve. Do you really think after the fanfare yam got 12hrs ago, that hes going to be lynched Day1.
News bulletin.. hes not; Koshi on the other hand can. This aint rocket science.
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On September 22 2013 23:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 23:00 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 22:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 22 2013 22:56 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 22:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 22 2013 22:40 Mocsta wrote:
now that koshi was getting some traction; compared to anyone else.
its odd, the timing of yamato post including the "i ignored koshi post"
he comes in like a hero.. and isnt even reading the whole thread.. what a douche
##Unvote
##Vote: Koshi Your post is saying "yamato is scum" (as the next post aswell). Why vote Koshi instead? Because, a lot of the thread likes Yam; and a case will be required. Koshi, not so much. Okay wtf Mocsta? ?? Are you trying to tell me, that if you had two or three scum reads; you just random dip which one you push. Sometimes its based on % to flip scum Sometimes its based on getting town buy-in. Jeez.. stop playing so naieve. Do you really think after the fanfare yam got 12hrs ago, that hes going to be lynched Day1. News bulletin.. hes not; Koshi on the other hand can. This aint rocket science. I thought you were above this "this guy can't get lynched on D1 even if he is scum". Why don't you make a case on yamato if he is most likely to flip scum? Do you, or do you think Koshi is more likely to be scum than yamato? Its about care factor Rayn. And i dont have enough. Theres what 6 scum? If I think yam is scum, so what, theres 5 others that I can push with less effort.
If you want to call me scum for that, then do it.
and to answer your question: I dont care who is more likely to flip scum between ksohi and yam. for me, they both leaning.
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On September 22 2013 23:10 DarthPunk wrote:+ Show Spoiler +OK I read Koshi's filter and it seemed to contain a lot of one liners. Wasn't he going away though and stated before the game started that he would potentially be phone posting? If he is limited to phone posting then his filter makes a lot more sense as it is much more convenient to stick to one liners whilst phone posting. Like I am unfamiliar with the standard of play required from Koshi. If it is a high standard and he is usually active and curious and writes good posts then I would be concerned that he was flying under the radar. But if I discounted meta, then I would probably not want to lynch Koshi and here is why. On September 21 2013 22:55 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2013 22:51 Mocsta wrote:On September 21 2013 22:47 Koshi wrote:On September 21 2013 22:46 Mocsta wrote:On September 21 2013 22:42 Koshi wrote:
I want to lynch Mocst
Reason: People that make special posts always end up being scum.
Acrofoles: GoT
Persona: Crazometer
Aperture: Alakaslam (he was even more special than otherwise, with the evul bee posts)
Golden Sun: BH
Right... So lets get you useful. Is Geript scum? I have 0 clues. The guy had a superpowerful role in aperture and we all know how that ended. But I am very friendly towards geript because he is friendly towards me. yeah OK, more stuff that means nothing. That was a different game. You know; i have seen you replace in as town, and your game play was very different to what you are doing now. Day1 spaztic mode is over. So lets try again, one more time. - cos you didn't give a definitive answer on where you stand. Read on Geript.Then Read on WaveofShadow. :D I do not want to lynch geript. Reason: He is making cases + he is a friendly fellow. I could lynch WoS atm. He tried to fling shit at VE for not going to bed when he said he was going to bed. Unless he is VE his mother there is no reason to make that post. On September 21 2013 23:23 Koshi wrote:C. Koshi doesn't give 2 fucks about the case but loves the fact geript makes cases. <Addendum> The case wasn't total shit for being a couple hours into the game. So extra points for geript. Also, I am not defending geript. You keep asking me about geript. I simply answer. Why is Geript making cases alignment indicative.It isn't. I just don't want to lynch geript atm. I have 0 clues about geript his allignment. Is DP scum?I am not lynching DP. Scum got 6 nk next 2 nights unless crazy vigi happens n1. Let's see if DP is still alive day 3. I like DP posting as well.Now ask me new shit. And answer my question. Why didn't you consider the fact that Kush wanted to see you 2 modkilled for posting "..." in the silent period. And why are you so butthurt about that fact? You even voted kush. Rules are Rules. Here he states when questioned about both myself and geript that he does not want to lynch us? Why would a scum that is trying to fly under the radar take that position on both of us? I think as scum it would be far easier and more convenient to just side with one or the other and no one would really care. Saying that you don;t want to lynch either draws attention to Koshi and if we read his filter and decide that he is trying to lay low, taking a controversial position just does not gel with that mindset. This is assuming at least two of (Geript, DP, Koshi) are town I gather?
What if Koshi/Geript is scum, and you are town? This scenario is equally plausible in my opinion.
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On September 22 2013 23:12 Mattchew wrote:
oh and chainman ray is still weak, his idea of like watching over the thread is a really good (terrible) excuse for not giving reads and accusations, or even posting that much at all.
Too scummy to be scum dude.
I just coached this fucker in the newbies. hence the comment about "setting trapz"
Look, I actually liked his insight when i probed him more. its not a firm town read by any means, but I think hes certainly not worth a vote outright.
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On September 22 2013 23:16 Mattchew wrote:
oh right, mocsta has been trying to be a town leader and getting information out of people, from what I know of him, this is how he likes to play as town town pitbull
I dont have the energy or time to be a town campaigner.
Im the interrogator. Which I guess is the non-provoked DP role. :p
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On September 22 2013 23:19 Mattchew wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 23:16 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 23:12 Mattchew wrote:
oh and chainman ray is still weak, his idea of like watching over the thread is a really good (terrible) excuse for not giving reads and accusations, or even posting that much at all. Too scummy to be scum dude. I just coached this fucker in the newbies. hence the comment about "setting trapz" Look, I actually liked his insight when i probed him more. its not a firm town read by any means, but I think hes certainly not worth a vote outright. ok i wont vote him today, but i want more opinion on stutters?
I dont like him, but that applies every game.
I commented prior that I dont like Stutters progression from me -> Kush.
That doesnt make him scum though + he is a serial lurker.
Points in his favour as town:
Several ppl thought his Kush case was reasonable/logical (which IIRC was not meta based)
Points against him
The lack of attention to anything else.
Perhaps hes a selfish-type analyst.. i.e. only follows his own agenda. With the info currently, i dont think hes worth a vote. Would be good to see him post more content about others than Kush though.
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EPT
