GoT Mafia: Lords and Liars

On July 30 2013 04:19 johnnywup wrote:
/in if its not too late D: D: D: D:

I've read all the books and I'm totally obsessed with the lore and really want to play :D I just met the grrm himself

On August 06 2013 03:28 Onegu wrote:


All about house Arryn, Your ships cant get up the vale I win!

On August 06 2013 07:46 Acrofales wrote:

Arthur Dayne, Sword of the morning
Jaime Lannister, not yet kingslayer
Barristan Selmy

So easy.

Name 5 people Cersei has had sex with.

On August 07 2013 08:01 gumshoe wrote:


Hmm. Don't wanna use google, while I go find my old book map, is it near old Valeria?

On August 07 2013 09:33 gumshoe wrote:


His sexy pupils?

On August 07 2013 09:47 Acrofales wrote:

Lies. It's his voice.

On August 07 2013 11:20 iamperfection wrote:
past my bed time for start just so everyone knows for no reason

On August 08 2013 14:46 johnnywup wrote:

why would he do that? that seems pretty anti-town to do. If there's a scum/3p goal to kill a single house (think of Robert Baratheon wanting to kill every last Targaryen) then this would make their job infinitely easier if they can figure out the house.

I now realize that being elected Lord of a house can be a disadvantage as well as an advantage. It reveals what house you are. I thought that that would be anonymous but it looks like its otherwise. We want to give scum as little information as possible. I made the mistake in Night 0 of revealing my name, without realizing that there may be an assassin type of role. As long as there's no major disagreements within your house I think that it might be the best course of action to elect the same lord for every night if possible.

On August 09 2013 06:07 johnnywup wrote:
you're the one with 3 votes on you. if we have thoughts that are mutually exclusive to alignment, it would like I was more townie, no? I do not think the thoughts are mutually exclusive to alignment, by the way.

And what thoughts are you talking about exactly? Just the speculating on a possible 3p wincon? Because if that's it then you're not saying anything.

On August 09 2013 06:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yeah Solstice´s logic is really fishy.

On August 09 2013 06:53 Clarity_nl wrote:
Why is this conversation happening in the thread as opposed to pms?

#Trafficcop

On August 09 2013 08:06 Chromatically wrote:

Why are you trying to spin this? You literally told me that you were "reasonably sure" that he was town. That's a STRONG read. Now you're trying to say that you were "leaning town", a weak read?

As I've already said, catching scum is a far higher priority than the nightactions. EVEN if you thought that the vigi shot was a 100% hp shot, 1 town for 1 scum is always a good trade. That's assuming that he is scum, which you thought was very unlikely (or maybe not anymore, I guess).

Look at this from both sides:
Town Sol might see this danger in letting DI be lord, and resist DI in favor of himself, who he sees as the stronger town player. Even with a strong town read on DI, he would prefer himself. HOWEVER, once it became clear that Sol wasn't going to be lord, he would switch to his strong town read, Dandel. Town Sol would never switch to a null read because of the chance of wasting our nightactions, which aren't even that powerful.

Scum Sol wants himself to be lord above DI, the strongest town player, at all costs. He tries to invent some reasons why, so he starts by brushing him off with "he's not serious enough". Then, when DI looks like a better candidate for lord, he comes up with the scenario where DI blows the nightactions. When he realizes that he can't become lord, he consolidates onto the weaker town player (myself). AFTER he does this, he slips that he has a strong town read on DI, without realizing that this is inconsistent with his actions.

Which one of these sounds more likely? Do you really think that Sol values these nightactions THIS highly?

On August 09 2013 11:18 Oberyn wrote:




Either way, with a scum Dandel or a scum Chrom, they would use the house kp to shoot a town and there is not much you can do about it. It seems to me that the logical decision is to elect the player that is more likely town to avoid this scenario.

If Dandel is going to clearly get caught as a scum Lord wouldn't electing him be a good idea? Free scum read? Furthermore, are you saying that preserving the 1-shot hp check is important enough to elect a null player over a town player? I'm not convinced by your reasoning.



So are you saying that Dandel is lying and misrepresenting you, but you think he is town? Why call him a liar, suggesting an anti-town motivation, yet support him at the same time?

Also, what specifically in PMs led you to a town read?

On August 09 2013 06:13 Acrofales wrote:
I am going to step in to protect my vassal johnnywup. I initially suspected him because he yelled his true name in our dining hall as he entered Highgarden. It seemed naive at best, and fishing for others' role names at worst. Since then this has been clarified and I suspect it was just a naive gaff to gain our trust.

However, in public he seems overly paranoid about it; possibly because both Sharrant and I were immediately suspicious of his motives. He claimed to have never heard of evil magician assassins who use name magic to murder you in your sleep. The whole discussion played out in a way that I believe him.

Now, this just plain doesn't jibe with the suspicions s0lstice is trying to mount against him.

DI, Koshi, Chromatically: does s0lstice's explanation do justice to what happened in the confines of Storm's End?

On August 09 2013 13:43 Chromatically wrote:

This is ridiculous. You will only consider voting him when you're 100% certain he is town? That will never happen, barring a DT check or something.

I have a very hard time believing that any townie wouldn't vote their strong townread for flimsy reasons like the ones you've said. I'm obviously not the only one that thinks these reasons are weak.

It just makes much more sense from a scum perspective than it does a town perspective like I said earlier (starting off by brushing him off as not serious, then only coming up with the nightaction explanation later after DI was a serious candidate).

On August 09 2013 14:02 FirmTofu wrote:

You will see in a moment. Can you look over the post for me and see if you see anything that stands out to you?

On August 09 2013 11:03 s0Lstice wrote:


what in gods name is this? because I had votes on me, I should be thinking I'm scum, and therefore your thought was more townie?

Acro confirmed that you were thinking about the 3p wincon thing pre-game, so that's whatevs...but what are you getting at with the above quote?

On August 09 2013 23:23 Xatalos wrote:
Just a notice that I'll be relying on my phone (and its battery) for about 2 days so my activity will drop a bit during this time.

s0Lstice, would you act like you did during N0 again in retrospect? Who do you think should be Lord at N1 in your House?

On August 10 2013 01:18 Sharrant wrote:
I was briefly around yesterday, so I concentrated on PMs with Acro while I was reading the thread. I have not PM'ed anyone in quite some time as I have not been around. I should be here on and off up until the deadline.

There's been some talk of killing Kush. Kush and I have talked very little, but his attitude struck me as matching his town meta to a T. Obviously I can't quote the pm, but he openly admitted to being completely clueless about how teh game is operating/what had happened within our house during n0, while still having a big attitude about it.

I'm conflicted on this, because on one hand in smurf I could easily tell he was town, and pretty much everyone else could. But on the other hand he still got mislynched at LyLo and did not contribue meaningfully to the game.

I don't want him alive at LyLo again, but he is very likely town. I've been playing with Kush since my first game on TL, and I think I've gotten him right about 80% of the time. That said, I understand and even sympathize with wanting to kill him at this point. But I personally can't do so because I am relatively sure he's town, and town is town regardless of whether they're playing poorly or not. The only thing giving me any doubt is this: Does anyone know if Kush uses the term 'fag' or 'fags' at all?

I'm not confident enough to name anyone as scum until I've read the thread a few more times. Most of the big incidents in the thread are cookie cutter from other games I've played. Rayne twisting words around was exactly what he did to me until we both figured each other out as town in the last game we played. Oatsmaster and Yamato's fight earlier was also cookie cutter from the last game I was in with them, however a few things stuck out to me as different about both of them in this case. I will be starting to read through their exchange again. Does anyone else have specific things they think I should read or that they want opinions on?

On August 10 2013 01:23 Xatalos wrote:


I can't understand why you would refuse to vote your townread and choose someone null/AFK over him. If DI was your townread, that means he almost completely certainly also was town, because he's a blatant scum as scum. There's just no sense in choosing somewhat likely scum over almost impossible scum as Lord. How can you disagree?

What do you think of Dandel Ion now? What about Chromatically? Or Koshi?

On August 10 2013 01:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Okay, we need to start deciding stuff soon.

iamp, i am okay with your proposed shot. Lord KP should be used to vig lurkers, at least on N1.
How many of the lords do we want to vig a single target? 2? more? For me 2 seems fine.

As for lynch targets, so far i think:

Solstice - I called his thought process fishy earlier. This is what i meant. Solstice does not want Dandel to be a lord. He says, when Dandel is town, he probably does good stuff as a lord. When he is scum, he will most likely out himself. Then he doesn´t want to elect Dandel, because he can´t be sure if he is town. I don´t like that, at all. By Solstice´s thinking, he should definitely elect Dandel and noone else. It will give him a near 100% read on Dandel, as he himself said. Why does he not want to immediately figure out Dandel´s alignment? Later on he says that "Dandel will out him either way". Has he? I see no mention of Dandel´s alignment by Solstice after that.

johnnywup - There are two things why i think johnnywup is mafia. The first one is his overly defensive stance on his 3p thing. When being questioned about that in thread, his first comment is "other people did not find that scummy". That´s really going overboard if you are town, why would you be more interested to tell people that other people did not find you scummy rather than if they thought you were right or wrong and how did you end up in the conclusion? Another thing that stands out is johnnywup´s house member list. In itself list posts are bad, but this is worse. He hasn´t even put a single bit off thought into the lise (notice him not realizing in which house Vivax/Gumshoe are). Scummy as fuck.

Onegu - Onegu has not done anything. Lika anything at all. If you look at his posts he is entering rendom discussions for what? To have nothing to say. Look at when he tells he has already given his thoughts about Solstice & Clarity. His conclusion on Solstice is "we need to hear from him". Right. On Clarity he redacted from his town read because he was not willing find out about role names. So his whole discussion & conclusion is worthless. Now he is trying to figure out FirmTofu. Nothing on that front. scum.

Vigi list:

Sharrant
gumshoe
yamato77
jrkirby
Nachomamma8
kushm4sta

For the record, noone in my house has had any contact with me on D1. I have been PMing the other lords all the time i have been online, and i would expect if they have something to ask, they will. I am not going to try to do everything and i have had pretty much nothing to say to them. So FT/Risen/nachodude if you got something to ask or something you want to discuss feel free to PM me.

Vivax, when i asked you about my scumreads, why didn´t you answer me and asked me about someone else instead?

On August 10 2013 01:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:

What do you mean by town name?

Also how am i wrong on you? That´s exactly what i read from your post.

On August 10 2013 01:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:

It´s not alignment indicative as the role names are not alignment indicative. What if he is mafia and some role name that´s "town" in the lore and decided to claim it to look town? It´s all WIFOM and there is nothing alignment indicative in his claim. Or if there is, feel free to tell me why that claim could possibly not come from mafia.

Fair enough. I was wrong in the "good things" part. I assumed you meant that when you said you would elect Dandel when you are 100% sure he is town. Why would you then elect someone who STILL does not do good things over yourself? I know you have said you think Dandel is town, are you 100% sure he is? Because from what i read from your post you would be if he was the lord now.

On August 10 2013 01:54 Xatalos wrote:


I take it you are familiar with DI's meta. That means his alignment would (or at least should) be obvious to you pretty soon. That's why you certainly can't say that he's scummy as either alignment. Having him as a town read is pretty much forced on you even as scum. Your town read on him doesn't really say much about you.

The problem is that despite your town read, you refused to vote for him for very weak reasons. I have a very hard time seeing how you'd do this as town. I have had moments where I have considered you being town, but I always come back to your N0 actions. It points too strongly to scum to disregard it as simply bad play.

I like your "sidenote" about Koshi though. That seems like something town would say rather than scum.

On August 10 2013 02:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Why is it impossible he would not do that as scum? Iam saying he could do that regardless of his alignment. If you are going to defend him by your argument you need to tell me why it´s impossible he would not do that as mafia. I just told you why he would do that as mafia.

On August 10 2013 02:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:

rofl, i have never said i think johnnywup is scummy because of his claim. Why are you trying to imply so? Or what do you mean with "got him in some pretty hot water from what it sounds like"??

If you are familiar with the lore, got a mafia role whose name was someone good in the show, why the fuck would you not claim your role name? There is no harm.

On August 10 2013 12:40 s0Lstice wrote:
I think Onegu is town, but I don't particularly want to say why.

You can amend my list post as such.

On August 09 2013 13:22 Risen wrote:


This is so scummy man. How about you analyze it, tell us what you think, and then bounce ideas around? Why are you jumping in on this Acro wagon without anything substantive? Seems to me you're soft-pushing an acro lynch without committing yourself.

On August 12 2013 05:24 Clarity_nl wrote:


You sure showed me
Could one of the lords tell us if Risen has been active in pms?

Also, chromatticaly has been posting consistently this game, so why don't I remember anything about him.
Just read his filter and while glancing it looks townie, if I go through his filter and note all the reads he has the list is rather short.

On August 10 2013 11:44 kushm4sta wrote:


rofl even i knew that

On August 13 2013 00:26 Acrofales wrote:

Sec, checking scumQT.

On August 13 2013 00:41 Acrofales wrote:

I dunno. I'm patiently gathering evidence on him.

On August 13 2013 00:56 Acrofales wrote:

It's all in yesterday's minutes. I don't think anything much of consequence regarding rayn happened in private that hasn't already been posted here? I went over my PMs, but there isn't anything in there that I haven't already posted.

On August 13 2013 08:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Are you going anywhere with these questions? You have been the definition of lurker in D2.

On August 13 2013 09:49 iamperfection wrote:

how so

On August 13 2013 11:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:

*ding ding* , or roleblocked.

On August 09 2013 03:54 Acrofales wrote:

Wait what? YOU are Ser Redacted? And when asked if something interested happened in the confines of your house (Winterfell, apparently), you decided to keep this rather controversial situation to the thread, saying that everything was groovy?

Explain yourself. Also, whatever gambit that was, it is atrocious. It doesn't sound indicative of Clarity's allegiance at all. It sounds like he gave you his real name and you derped it up, by claiming some nonsense name magic. I don't understand at all how you deduce that he is not a Blackfyre infiltrant from that, unless you were already privy to that information and were just dicking around.

While I often find it hard to uncover your motivations for doing things, this seems like a particularly stupid gaff. At first my grievances were with your lord, but it's possible that your entire house is Blackfyre scum?

On August 09 2013 04:07 Acrofales wrote:


Where do I say you're both Blackfyre pretenders? The exchange between you and Oats seems like intentional bad play by Oats, and his subsequent behaviour in this public hall has been to intentionally obscure information that would have been far more relevant at the time than his derpfest bickering with Yamato. Why would a loyal citizen intentionally derail the discussion, rather than presenting an interesting topic for discussion?

I exaggerated with the "whole house" bit, but I have some serious suspicions of Oatsmaster and Strongandbig.

On August 09 2013 22:03 Acrofales wrote:


In case my earlier discourse was unclear, Ser Oatsmaster has clearly traveled in the Reach and caught onto my way of speaking immediately.

Regarding the content: the young Tofu seems to think that I was afraid of calling Ser Oatsmaster a Blackfyre. Rest assured that if I had thought that, I would have called him a Blackfyre then and there. At the time, all I wanted was to hear more from him, and I said so.

On August 13 2013 06:15 Acrofales wrote:
--snip
In my humble opinion, johnnywup is the most obvious lynchbait in the thread

On August 13 2013 11:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:
did you read what Risen wrote? Because i agree with it.
And how would roleblocking Sharrant incriminate Acro? It´s all WIFOM.

Can you tell me how Xatalos' thought process over Acro/me/Sharrant is a townie one throughout D2?

On August 14 2013 14:11 Mocsta wrote:

If that's the case. He's definitely worth a filter dive!!!

A town oats is only helpful because u know he is town. He's not known for being a town driving force.

So I eagerly await what u find...cos I don't see a shot for nothing.

On August 14 2013 14:13 Risen wrote:
That was quite the active night. Easy lynch today. They would have killed me if I was wrong.

##vote: Sharrant

On August 15 2013 11:05 Risen wrote:


Yes. Always give people the opportunity to talk. Worst case your view stays the same. Best case a now town read talks you out of lynching them.

On August 15 2013 11:09 Risen wrote:


What...

On August 15 2013 11:48 Mocsta wrote:
hmm. i had a case ready to go.. but I don't want to interupt this Risen discussion either.

Fark....

s0lstice.. clarity had some queries for you, aroound page 132 I think.

On August 13 2013 14:07 DrParnassus wrote:

---

"Lords, I trust you finally have something to show for all your bickering? Our king grows tired of this farce. His Grace has given you ample time to bring forth the traitors. King's Landing has never been a more dangerous place; nobody trusts their neighbor and many have suffered or died due to false accusations. Even now, there is a mob outside our gates demanding blood! Bring forth the traitors so that we might end this!"

The Lords stood in a line facing the King. Nobody spoke. At some unseen signal the lords parted halfway, and behind them knelt yamato77 of House Martell. The King's Hand stared at him and began to speak.

"You are accused of treason. Do you serve your King? Tell us true, where do your loyalties lie?"

yamato77 looked up and opened his mouth, as if he wished to speak. Instead, he lowered his eyes to the floor and was silent.

"Well? Your King demands an answer!"

yamato's head lifted, his gaze locked firmly onto the King. A shadow seemed to cross his face and he struggled to his feet. For a brief moment he seemed to be the tallest person in the room. The court froze, as if everyone expected violence to break out at a single misspoken word.

"I will not give you the satisfaction you seek. I am Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken. Do with me as you will."

yamato77 was beheaded!

+ Show Spoiler [role pm] +

+ Show Spoiler [vote count] +

---

It is now Night 2. This night and all nights are silent. You may pm members from your house. Lords can no longer pm other lords. Send all lord election votes and night actions to DrParnassus. Lord election uses majority voting (3of4, 2of3, 2of2). If you don't come to a majority then your house will NOT have a lord for the next cycle. Night 2 ends in at 05:00 GMT (+00:00)!

PM me for obs.

On August 15 2013 13:13 Acrofales wrote:

Do you not trust Sharrant?

On July 09 2013 03:36 Vivax wrote:


4 pages of filter.

Your effort is amazing.

Oh yeah right you're busy, so am I every time I play scum.

On August 16 2013 02:47 Sharrant wrote:
Okay, guys, just want to make it clear where I stand. I've been discussing lynching Vivax for some time, and felt like I was chasing my tail as I went back and forth on lynching him, to lynching SnB, to both being town, to both scum, and back around the circle over and over.

##Vote: Vivax

I don't think I need to go too in depth with this, as it seems the majority of lords have come to the same conclusion. He hasn't been loud like I used to expect from him. Nor does he show off the skills he recently has proven he has, in the last two town games we played together he immediately and undeniably showed his townieness in a way that few can. There's none of that here.

I'm just retyping my case on Koshi right now and adding in the new developments about him now. I will post it shortly.

On August 16 2013 03:03 Clarity_nl wrote:


I was arguing back at vivax that yamato was null in my eyes.
Hell, oats was trying to convince me yamato was town during n1!

I was one of the few people that had no clear opinion on yamato, and vivax tried to convince me he's scum. Why?
A yamato lynch was nowhere near a certainty d2 without the redcheck. Scum could have easily tried to direct the lynch elsewhere.
The only reason a scum vivax would do that is if sharrant was scum too and vivax knew the redcheck was going to happen, and I don't buy that.

It's not a perfect explanation, I'm not saying vivax is completely town because of it, but it makes him townier than snb, and as I've said they can't both be scum.

On August 16 2013 03:17 Clarity_nl wrote:


I think there was a small chance of yamato getting lynched pre redcheck.
I think had vivax convinced me there would have been a much much bigger chance.
See no reason to do it as scum, especially since only I would give him towniepoints for it and no one else.

That said, this pm stuff snb pointed out looks pretty bad for vivax, maybe, let's see if he shows up.

On August 16 2013 03:37 Dandel Ion wrote:
sol might be sk tho

On August 16 2013 04:06 Dandel Ion wrote:
well my right ear is sunburnt, t'is true.

but please do keep deluding yourself that i order my life after what you say about me on a forum.

On August 16 2013 04:55 Xatalos wrote:


I think he refers to you trying to derail the Vivax Wagon. Please do comment on Vivax as well.

On August 16 2013 05:23 Xatalos wrote:


I'm maybe slightly leaning on Survivor too. But.... Still. He hasn't played townish in any fashion this game. Wouldn't he at least try a bit (maybe not enough to get NK'd) as Survivor?

On August 16 2013 05:47 Dandel Ion wrote:

as confirmed not-town, it would be his place to answer why we shouldn't lynch him.

he didn't and doesn't



it's ez, really.

On August 16 2013 08:00 johnnywup wrote:
the last list post i made i got called scum by half the game despite it being asked for and not scummy in any way shape or form. (the house list) what's another one list post going to do to help me?

On August 16 2013 08:03 strongandbig wrote:
Also list posts are not townie. Don't tell people to look town by making a list post. Tell them to do it by making cases. Real cases are way harder for scum to fake than lost posts are.

On August 16 2013 08:09 johnnywup wrote:
scum: rayn, vivax, xata, maybe s&b and grack and MAYBE mocsta. possibly koshi as well.

town: rest

and s&b risens logic is infallible there. what townie posts a town list when they're talking about who they want shot?

On August 16 2013 11:32 Mocsta wrote:

Get lynched then
I'm pretty disappointed with u right now

On August 17 2013 14:05 Acrofales wrote:

That is far from the most interesting question. WTF happened in Winterfell? SnB scum and some kinda coupe?

On August 17 2013 14:15 Acrofales wrote:

Closed setup, so good luck defining whether we're at lylo or not.

House Stark not having a leader seems like a scumplay. The lack of deaths seems like IF it was a power grab it only half-succeeded at best. I'm gonna park my vote. Plurality lynch, so better be paranoid as hell.

##vote Strongandbig

On August 17 2013 14:22 Acrofales wrote:

You tell me. You seem to know quite a lot about this?

On August 17 2013 14:19 Sharrant wrote:
Hey, Mocsta, who do you want to lynch most right now? Who do you think is the towniest person there is? Why on both of those?

On August 17 2013 14:26 Sharrant wrote:


Fine. I'm too excited.

I have a red check on Mocsta. You're welcome.

On August 17 2013 14:28 Sharrant wrote:


Yeah, you could also read the thread sometime. The two people are the other people in my house. Seriously, even Risen had to print a retraction because of it. Get with the times.

Yes, I'm a detective that alternates between alignment check (odd days) and hp check (even days).

On August 17 2013 14:30 johnnywup wrote:

Source?

On August 17 2013 14:31 Mocsta wrote:

I think you are town; so Im going to believe the check is valid.

I led the lynch on Vivax; why check me?

On August 17 2013 14:49 Sharrant wrote:


Let's just pretend it's tomorrow. Who do you want to lynch now that Mocsta has died?

On August 17 2013 14:37 Sharrant wrote:


I can't read your posts, and it makes it so I can never read you in a game. I found Kirby scummy, but I know I can't read you, so I used the check on you to simplify matters.

On August 17 2013 14:45 Acrofales wrote:
Also, I think I'm wrong on Rayn. Mocsta was incriminating him in PM and telling me to push his lynch while calling SnB town.

This game is too easy. Scum surrender pl0x?

On August 17 2013 22:26 Acrofales wrote:

Jesus. This thread has gone to shit... and by the looks of it Rayn is the reason. Why are people even engaging him? He's scum.

So is SnB, and so is Mocsta. Their coup failed, because they planned to kill Clarity, but failed: SnB didn't become lord, and town controls 3 votes.

I don't give a shit in which order we kill them.

On August 18 2013 00:19 Sharrant wrote:


Do tell.

And I'm saying it again, I'm pretty sure Johnny is town.

On August 17 2013 16:25 Clarity_nl wrote:
So I dunno, if we lynch town scum scum town I doubt we somehow lose (although I guess we lord kped two townies)
That said mocsta's reaction is dumb, so let's just lynch him and if he flips green lynch lynch sharrant, no?

Acro, I doubt if scum has a majority they'll just wait and suddenly hammer someone cause that'll reveal the scumteam and I believe town can grab majority again tomorrow, right?
I don't know if they have a majority, but the current lord list is fucking dumb. Like, how did this happen.

grack over xata?
dandel? (to be fair their house suxxxx)
Then there's me and snb... wtf.

On August 18 2013 00:36 Clarity_nl wrote:


And you know, his supposed red check is soon to modconfirmed something, and I'll bet my left arm dollar it's town.

On August 18 2013 00:50 Chromatically wrote:
Lynch Risen today? In addition to everything I said yesterday, there's the Vivax association. Risen calls Vivax a scumread in PMs, but doesn't have coherent reasons for it (scum don't want to read their scumbuddies). And, he never pushes Vivax in thread and only consolidates onto the vote when the lynch is clear.


As far as Sharrant goes, what do you think about this?

I think this is highly unlikely if Sharrant is scum. It's a dumb move for town, but I can't see scum doing this with a town Acro. Maybe it's a big play where they're both scum, but that's just unnecessary. I also don't see why scum would invent the "HP check even days".

I agree that it's unlikely that Mocsta was framed, but I think it's less likely that Sharrant is faking all of this.

Obviously irrelevant if he flips miller.

On August 18 2013 01:10 Chromatically wrote:

I'm not a fan of preflip connections either, but this isn't one. I don't see a reason for Sharrant to do this as scum either way, It's possible, but there's just no benefit.

That's true, I was going from memory on "lynch in the clear". The main point is that he had a large scumread on Vivax ("#1"), but he never pushed it in-thread, even when he was on the lynch. He voted SnB and Sharrant before actually voting Vivax.

On August 18 2013 01:43 Chromatically wrote:

If we really assume that Risen changes his reads every 5 minutes, then it'll be impossible to tell if he's scum. Any time he has a read contradiction, someone can say "he does that as town too". It just invalidates all his reads. Scum Risen could literally say any read he wanted to for no reason and he would get away with it.

He had a unreasoned scumread on Vivax that he never pushed. That is a clear association that doesn't make sense from a town perspective. Add to that everything else he's done that doesn't make sense from anyone thinking about the game.


I did, and I don't think it's alignment indicative.

I can't see the PMs in question, so I don't know exactly what made you think that Risen forgot about the Vivax lynch, but I think it could very easily be Risen just assuming that Vivax was done for, instead of actually forgetting.

He just really wants to push Xat, so he sends out the PMs, assuming that everyone would understand he was talking about tomorrow (given that Vivax is already dead). And then he sends out the second round just to make sure everyone knew.

On August 18 2013 01:56 Clarity_nl wrote:


That's pretty wifom. He could not have checked his qt, vivax could not have discussed the claim in his qt etc.

On August 18 2013 02:08 Xatalos wrote:


You mean like he PM'd you, checked the ScumQT and PM'd again with the opposite stance?