GoT Mafia: Lords and Liars

On August 05 2013 17:43 Xatalos wrote:
Wait a second... I'm always confused by timezones. If this game starts today at 06:00 (+02:00) = 08:00 (my local time), shouldn't it have started already (it's 11:35 now)? The remaining time should be... ...?

Also could someone answer my earlier green questions

On August 08 2013 14:46 johnnywup wrote:

why would he do that? that seems pretty anti-town to do. If there's a scum/3p goal to kill a single house (think of Robert Baratheon wanting to kill every last Targaryen) then this would make their job infinitely easier if they can figure out the house.

I now realize that being elected Lord of a house can be a disadvantage as well as an advantage. It reveals what house you are. I thought that that would be anonymous but it looks like its otherwise. We want to give scum as little information as possible. I made the mistake in Night 0 of revealing my name, without realizing that there may be an assassin type of role. As long as there's no major disagreements within your house I think that it might be the best course of action to elect the same lord for every night if possible.

On August 08 2013 16:15 johnnywup wrote:
Actually, since Scum is randomly distributed it's likely that they do already know who's in every house. There's 24 players so around 5 people are mafia. It's likely that there's one in each house except maybe one or two. Which means they do probably know who's in what house. I feel like an idiot.

and we have 2/6 houses completely revealed to everyone. That's enough to discuss for a while in terms of house politics. Can we please stop now?

On August 08 2013 21:20 Koshi wrote:


1) Oats townreads are either "nice and shit" or "agressive and shit".
2) Oats does not realise that this game is 6 pages long instead of 20.
3) Oats calls me scum if I point out he is shitting up the thread.
4) Oats does not answer me when I ask him who should be lord in our house in theory, but then wants me to explain to him why I find DI scummy over S0lstice.

Here is my first real scumread.

On August 09 2013 07:24 strongandbig wrote:

yes but there are two different things that could be called lies. one is that he told oats my real name because he was curious, when actually he told him that to kill my "plan" on purpose to get a reaction from me. the other is that he told oats I was going to reveal my rolename to the whole house anyway, when that was not in fact correct.

On August 09 2013 00:01 strongandbig wrote:
So hey guys I be The Lord of house stark
Also iphone capitalizes the phrase The Lord apparent lol

First thoughts: I think dandel's playstyle is bothe irksome and actively anti town in multiple ways, so I'm feeling pretty ambivalent towards any argument that someone is scum based on how they interacted with dandel in pms.

On August 09 2013 07:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Hey Vivax!

What do you think of Onegu, FT, Acrofales and johnnywup?

On August 09 2013 05:28 Acrofales wrote:
Hrmmm, playing a game of elimination, Vivax is the remaining member of House Stark.



This seems like a really strange soft-defense of Oatsmaster. Either he was completely oblivious to the goings on in his own house, or he had a town read based on that. I am confused about why he stood up to defend Oatsmaster's honor: he's not calling Koshi scum based on it, in fact there are no conclusions at all. With the knowledge that he had already talked to Oats in private this just looks like a baseless soft-defense of a house member who it seems he should have been suspicious of.

Anybody from House Stark (or Vivax himself) want to elaborate on Vivax's role in the internal politicking? Vivax, why did you make this soft-defense post of Oats?

On August 09 2013 03:53 Oberyn wrote:
Dandel is playing thread bully and I'm strongly considering switching my vote to put him in time out. Nearly every player (koshi, sol, s&B, risen) that has brought up suspicion of dandel, he has responded by attacking their abilities and suggesting that they could be scum. This is extremely indicative of mafia play.

Could the Lannisters explain to me why they felt iamp was the best choice as Lord?

On August 09 2013 14:44 FirmTofu wrote:

So you think the fact that it was more constructed makes it non-alignment indicative? Wouldn't scum be more worried about the content of their posts than town? Why would constructed flavor not be alignment indicative?

Afrocales' post looks very constructed and deliberate. He holds back by soft-accuses Oats instead of pushing him like he should be. The apathy is in plain sight for everyone to see

I also want to hear more from Ser Oatsmaster, because his reasons for not having a healthy dose of suspicion towards his kinfolks are weak. The fact that there was no strife in your house, is no reason to assume they are all true to the realm.

On August 09 2013 22:30 Acrofales wrote:
Additionally, I am concerned about Vivax and Yamato's lack of presence in this hallway. These are reknowned knights from whom I had high expectations and their absense is troubling. Yamato has been around, but got into that useless fight with Oats. While that seemed uncharacteristic for a pretender, his subsequent disappearance has me doubting that assessment. Vivax has not contributed much at all. Of these two, I'd prefer to see Vivax on the chopping block.

On August 09 2013 06:17 jrkirby wrote:
Also, I have a hunch that DI and Koshi are both town, and they're kinda "OMGUSing" each other. Often people who think they're really good at scumhunting spend a lot of time accusing people who are town and tunneling, and have confirmation bias when they're actually right. Scum are less likely to do this kinda tunneling.

On August 09 2013 22:42 Koshi wrote:
iamp why do you have a strong townread on Oats?

He entered the thread getting into a discussion with Yamato about why it is bad to release the names of the houses, which might be because he is town and he is concerned about it but aren't chances higher that he did it to stop scumhunting? Oats also asks stupid questions to everybody that tried to actually start scumhunting to draw them away from that. Sure it puts Oats in the spotlight but it also shits up the thread and it is hard for the other person that is discussing with Oats to not respond to these stupid questions.

Oats DID NOT PUT HIS THOUGHTS clearly in this thread. What kind of bullshit is that? He currently has 5 townreads. 3 members of his house because they are "nice and shit", DI because "he is agressive and shit" and Acro because his constructed posts are constructed.

I don't see why everybody thinks Oats is town.

On August 09 2013 22:46 kushm4sta wrote:
btw people should sheep vivax not even a laziness thing. He is just right a very huge percentage of the time and it is town wincon to sheep him.

these are the pieces of shit that come to mind

FirmTofu- Decided to complain about activity and did nothing else

Gumshoe- Had a good feeling from pms that he was town but is mia

Grack- Mia since last night

Kush- Non contributer who i want kp directed at because he can contribute as town and isnt

nacho- non poster and i havent heard anything about his pms

Sharrant- as stated before

On August 09 2013 22:54 Koshi wrote:

I am not angry at Oats, he is however trying really hard to do so. Why are the first 2 not relevant? Oats is actually capable to make cases, so him just commenting on his townreads like that is bad play or scumplay. Why would he call me scum if I am right about him shitting up the thread? Doesn't he see that he is doing it? Instead he keeps doing these things like asking me questions that are so wrong that I just have to respond to them.

What's the difference between a lurker/inactive and Oats at this point?

On August 09 2013 22:58 iamperfection wrote:
why are you busy vivax?

On August 09 2013 23:08 iamperfection wrote:

describe the gipsies

On August 09 2013 23:12 Koshi wrote:

I want to lynch Oats because he is clearly not playing like he should/can play. I don't understand why he is considered town in this game while he is at best a lurker.
Yamato was right, Oats was wrong. Yamato had to endure Oats his terrible questions just like me.
But Yamato is fitting the same profile as Oats at this point, however, people think Oats is town and Yamato is scum. Why is that? They interacted with each other in the first 6 hours of this game and then disappeared.

But I don't want to live in the past alone.
I want to add that in my eyes s0lstice is town and I do not see a reason why he is scum except for not picking DI. The only small thing that is strange is that he ran so convincingly for Lord and is now being pretty afk.
DI seems to be town as well. I was not aware of his town meta and I thought that DI trolling meant DI=scum. Him wanting to be Lord to kill Kush = Trolling.

I don't have scumreads yet on any of the big posters in this game and killing of people that don't participate in the game is probably a good idea. Clarity is a bit on my radar but that is based on associations and being a vassal of iamp but that's it.

On August 09 2013 22:47 Oberyn wrote:


Don't worry. I can give you some tips post game if you ask nicely.



jrkirby hasn't set off any red flags yet in PMs, though similar to Acro, I question how they come to the both town conclusion so easily. In this case, I'd be more suspicious of Acro, rather than kirby due to experience. Kirby is going to find himself shot if he's not posting in the thread more though.

On August 09 2013 23:20 iamperfection wrote:

his reads are bad

Describe me

On August 10 2013 02:44 Oatsmaster wrote:
koshi too dick to be scum. MY FINAL READ ON KOSHI.

On August 10 2013 01:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Okay, we need to start deciding stuff soon.

iamp, i am okay with your proposed shot. Lord KP should be used to vig lurkers, at least on N1.
How many of the lords do we want to vig a single target? 2? more? For me 2 seems fine.

As for lynch targets, so far i think:

Solstice - I called his thought process fishy earlier. This is what i meant. Solstice does not want Dandel to be a lord. He says, when Dandel is town, he probably does good stuff as a lord. When he is scum, he will most likely out himself. Then he doesn´t want to elect Dandel, because he can´t be sure if he is town. I don´t like that, at all. By Solstice´s thinking, he should definitely elect Dandel and noone else. It will give him a near 100% read on Dandel, as he himself said. Why does he not want to immediately figure out Dandel´s alignment? Later on he says that "Dandel will out him either way". Has he? I see no mention of Dandel´s alignment by Solstice after that.

johnnywup - There are two things why i think johnnywup is mafia. The first one is his overly defensive stance on his 3p thing. When being questioned about that in thread, his first comment is "other people did not find that scummy". That´s really going overboard if you are town, why would you be more interested to tell people that other people did not find you scummy rather than if they thought you were right or wrong and how did you end up in the conclusion? Another thing that stands out is johnnywup´s house member list. In itself list posts are bad, but this is worse. He hasn´t even put a single bit off thought into the lise (notice him not realizing in which house Vivax/Gumshoe are). Scummy as fuck.

Onegu - Onegu has not done anything. Lika anything at all. If you look at his posts he is entering rendom discussions for what? To have nothing to say. Look at when he tells he has already given his thoughts about Solstice & Clarity. His conclusion on Solstice is "we need to hear from him". Right. On Clarity he redacted from his town read because he was not willing find out about role names. So his whole discussion & conclusion is worthless. Now he is trying to figure out FirmTofu. Nothing on that front. scum.

Vigi list:

Sharrant
gumshoe
yamato77
jrkirby
Nachomamma8
kushm4sta

For the record, noone in my house has had any contact with me on D1. I have been PMing the other lords all the time i have been online, and i would expect if they have something to ask, they will. I am not going to try to do everything and i have had pretty much nothing to say to them. So FT/Risen/nachodude if you got something to ask or something you want to discuss feel free to PM me.

Vivax, when i asked you about my scumreads, why didn´t you answer me and asked me about someone else instead?

On August 10 2013 02:53 Sharrant wrote:

Hey, Vivax, you're the perfect one to answer this. You actually hydra'ed with Kush. The question was whether Kush says 'fags' normally. Does he? You would know much better than I.

On August 09 2013 22:47 Oberyn wrote:

jrkirby hasn't set off any red flags yet in PMs, though similar to Acro, I question how they come to the both town conclusion so easily. In this case, I'd be more suspicious of Acro, rather than kirby due to experience. Kirby is going to find himself shot if he's not posting in the thread more though.

On August 10 2013 03:14 Oberyn wrote:


I'd be opposed to his lynch right now.

On a side note, I mentioned to Acro that I was going to make a case against yamato and was wondering if he would be willing to support me. After being afk in PMs for the first 48 hours, yamato suddenly opens up and is interested in talking. He also feels necessary to call me town and post in the thread explaining his inactivity. I don't want to make a connection read without either player flipped, but it is something to consider later on.

On August 10 2013 08:49 johnnywup wrote:
thats not what i said

and i never said its a meaningful contribution but making a list and not knowing which house two people are in doesn't make me look mafia

i'm not saying i'm contributing from that post but someone asked for a list and I wanted it put into a post for convenience sake so i made it. it's just something i thought would be nice and people could refer back to if they needed. i don't understand how that makes me look like mafia?

On August 10 2013 09:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Vivax what's your read on FT?

On August 12 2013 21:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Xatalos has not been a lord once this game...

On August 13 2013 00:10 Koshi wrote:


Hey Vivax, wasn't I your scumread and I suggest you stop trying to get me lynched? I thought we were bros after Sicilian and that you would have my back. Like in Titanic.

Our friendship is coming to an end like this. Unless you are scum, then I can forgive you. + Show Spoiler +

If yamato flips town Oats is my nr 1 lynch for tomorrow. But chances are pretty low.

Also, I have read the rest of your message 3 times now and I don't understand what you are saying. Who is scum?

On August 10 2013 10:39 johnnywup wrote:

im not pretending i have lol but that doesn't make me scum

and i can start making them but im not really motivated to atm.

if i were to pick one from every house it would be sharrant ft oats gumshoe koshi onegu i haven't been paying as much attention this game tbh and im losing interest as people continue thinking im scum. it's too much effort to prove my inoccence. if you guys think it's a good idea to kill me just night kill me and don't waste any discussion on me and try to find actual scum. im really close to not giving a shit anymore

On August 13 2013 01:09 Onegu wrote:
Can we shoot Grack tonight he has info it shouldnt be possible for him to have.

On August 13 2013 01:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I think iamp said he didn´t. Who else could it have been?

sharrant -- he has done one thing I really like, and that is provide some insight into kush when we had literally nothing else to go off of. sharing this info I view as really pro-town as scum he coulda just kept his mouth shut and enjoyed him getting vigged without interfering in the least.

On August 14 2013 17:42 johnnywup wrote:
Sorry my Internets being really dumb. mocsta, i had a post that I was going to post about why I thought risen/Koshi is scum, but it boils down to this:

Sharrant has a good case on Koshi, I'll let him post it himself.

Risen is trying to lynch the guy that gave us scum for free. It seems unlikely to be a bus to me because Yamato wasn't even really in the limelight and no one would give their scum buddy away when they're not even being scrutinized (I think..I've never played as scum). Like, sharrant is the one person who actually gave us scum on a platter, and risen wants to lynch him. What? And if any of you want to point out me agreeing with risens case, yes I changed my mind because I actually thought about it more and I liked it less and less. I'm pretty convinced sharrant is town.



Disagree that first action would be to go to qt. what would that accomplish at all? If anything the fact he wasn't mod killed makes me think he's more likely scum because mods would be less likely to modkill scum. I know that's not a case but it's something to maybe consider.

On August 13 2013 12:21 Sharrant wrote:


@risen
Your paranoia is unwarranted and kind of hilarious. This seems like something you could get worked up about as town though. However my highlight of your case is easily (paraphrasing here): "my first reason for wanting to lynch sharrant is the same reasoning I had for lynching that townie. But this time it's right!"

If you want to believe I'm mafia, you have to
A) assume I started putting pressure on my scum buddy in post number one.
B) assume kush is mafia and I defended him to start the game. Or:
B) 2. Assume that I (as mafia) hard defended an easy mislynch of kush who had basically just thrown away a game that town had won and that I wouldn't want to lynch him on that reason alone.
C) assume I continued to bring up yamato twice when un pressured.
D) fake claim a cop check on yamato
E) tried to not tell the thread about the cop check.
F) decided not to take the time to gain town cred by waving my dick in his face when he came back to the thread.

I think that's all there is to say about that, unless someone has some questions

Oatsmaster and Yamato's fight earlier was also cookie cutter from the last game I was in with them, however a few things stuck out to me as different about both of them in this case. I will be starting to read through their exchange again. Does anyone else have specific things they think I should read or that they want opinions on?

I claimed my role to Acro last night (I'm a one shot alignment cop). I asked him who I should target with it, he said Kush and Yamato. Both players I had in mind originally. In case he was mafia I lied and said I would target Kush.

Vivax never openly expressed his thoughts on Yamato (If I'm recalling correctly), but did so in PMs, this is suspicious to me.

I think snb might actually be town because I had this exact same thought (although less fleshed out) just a bit earlier. Risen's first post was so bad and yet so much effort was put in it. After that... Almost nothing. No follow-up to his first post or anything. No pushing his reads. There's a clear difference between the effort in his first post and everything after that.

On August 14 2013 22:55 Koshi wrote:

1) Nope, I am not antagonizing him. jrkirby his posting was obvious scum and the fact that Mocsta is a firm believer that jrkirby his posting was town is actually the prove that Mocsta is scum.

2) Risen his case on Sharrant was already perfect. The way how Sharrant entered the thread after Acro revealed him is enough.

On August 14 2013 23:01 Onegu wrote:
Guys go read bluelightz mafia and jrkirbys filter, it is almost the exact same play he was town.

I buy the sharrant claim for now.

SnB needs to come back he made a few good posts but it was after he started getting heat, and now he has dissapeared again.

Will filter dive a ew people after my kids sleep.

On August 14 2013 23:13 Sharrant wrote:
How certain are you that I'm scum, vivax?

On August 13 2013 09:20 kushm4sta wrote:
kush scumreads 1.0 (probably all wrong)

yamato
xatalos
sharrant

On August 14 2013 23:27 kushm4sta wrote:
Acro I gave you reasons in pm. For thinking sharrant might be scum. I changed my mind because his claim didn't seem scummy you said.

Johnny I thought was scummy because of his first post. Didn't make it any further in his filter lol.

Yes I have flip flopped. This is a huge town tell from me. I can't believe you shot me bro.

My Shitty scumreads
Johnny
Acro

On August 14 2013 23:36 Xatalos wrote:


You're clearly not reading very closely. That was just my second post against Risen, with almost the same content as the first one. I had more after that, like his contradictory statements about his scumreads on me and DI (and also his push for Sharrant didn't feel right, nor his faulty logic with his original accusations and how he never followed up on them).

iamperfection initially got me suspicious of you. Here's a summary of his opinions (from the last will post):

"Vivax- so i reread what he posted after i told him i think he is scum. Fucker still has not had a single strong push the entire game. vivax should be leading the town or fighting me if im wrong about sompething he simply does not care what is going on and isnt trying to catch scum. He does this because he is scum"

Basically, lack of genuine effort, pushing, involvement... Not just lack of activity. Lynchworthy for sure.

After some PM'ing with Clarity I'm not as confident in Risen being scum anymore. He's generally crazy and it's hard to distinguish between crazy town and crazy scum. Maybe his faulty logic is explained by his general lack of logical thinking. For now it might be a better idea to lynch you, s0Lstice, snb or Mocsta (unless he keeps up his clear effort, which isn't very easy to do as scum).

On August 09 2013 21:21 Xatalos wrote:
I agree that Risen is quite likely town (unfortunately, one might also say).

On August 15 2013 01:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Vivax comment on my case on Mocsta please.

On August 14 2013 23:17 strongandbig wrote:
1. Main thing sharrant still hasn't answered IMO is why he claimed to acro without worrying that he would get killed. He said he lied about his target in case acro was scum, so it can't be because he had such a strong town read on acro that he was willing to risk his whole blue role on it.
2. Vivax misstating the case against him. When I get to my computer I'll explain or maybe copy some pms I sent to clarity and oats.
3. Risen! Kill with fire. Just cause he had one food point on sharrant doesn't make him town, read my first case on him for the reasons why his filter makes him scum.

@onegu fuck you how have I disappeared. It's been night phase when we were not allowed to post. Derplord.

@vivax read the thread koshis argument is that when mocsta calls koshi scum for attacking jrkirby's filter, it's a scummy chainsaw defense because mocsta should be able to see how onjectively scummy jrkirby's filter looks regardless of what mocsta/jrkirby's actual alignment is.

On August 14 2013 23:59 strongandbig wrote:
Anyway here's what I said to clarity about vivax, and it's what makes me think he's scum that has nothing to do with activity:

also i feel like vivax's reads change a lot and he's not nearly as aggressive as usual when he's town. if you look at his reads, for the lynch/kp target he goes koshi->sharrant->koshi->yamato->yamato or johnnywup->koshi or me

most of the time his reasons were switching were "it doesn't seem like i can convince lords to go for my scumread." That doesn't feel like vivax, he seems like the kind of person who rages when people don't listen to him rather than the kind of person who just says "okay moving on".

On August 15 2013 02:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Vivax can you answer me on Mocsta please?

On August 15 2013 02:25 Clarity_nl wrote:


+1

Also, ##Unvote

On August 15 2013 02:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Vivax why did you say i am lurky as mafia?

On August 15 2013 02:50 Clarity_nl wrote:


Ofcourse I've seen it. When Acro says unlikely he means exactly that, unlikely.
Could sharrant be scum? Yeah. Is he scum? Dunno, probably not.
Should we lynch him today? NO WTF WHAT A DUMBASS QUESTION
If he's scum they have to continue withholding roleblocks, there's like 4 or 5 more scum most likely, why lynch the cop who gave us a redcheck that turned out to be right?

On August 15 2013 02:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:

If you remember i specifically told in scumchat that i am not able to be active...

On August 15 2013 02:54 Risen wrote:


The clear answer is that you lynch scum whenever you find them. But if you're unwilling, how about we lynch acro, then when he flips red we shoot sharrant.

##unvote
##vote: Acrofales

On August 15 2013 01:33 Risen wrote:
Also, sab clearly scum. Hedging himself against sharrant's eventual red flip, while simultaneously calling me out as scum even though I'm the one saving town when sharrant had no one looking through his filter, apparently, since I'm the only one who called out the giant gaping hole in his logic.

To be fair, that's probably in line with my scum "meta" or some inane nonsense. I hate meta so much...... it's absurd. People become aware of their metas and then act accordingly. What's my town meta? Is it any different than my scum meta? I always try to find scummy things in thread and point them out regardless of my alignment.

On August 15 2013 02:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I am interested in why are you defending me based on false pretenses.

On August 15 2013 01:39 Koshi wrote:

How did Sharrant even get elected? House Tyrell is the worst. 1,5 page filter and afk for another 12 hours.
His latest persons of interests are
Vivax because he thought Yamato was scum in PMs.
Koshi because he is the SK.
SnB because he is a non-factor.
And then of course jrkirby but not mocsta."I think you are 99% scum, but I am going to let you stay alive so you can misdirect the thread for a while"

If today somebody else then Sharrant/Mocsta is getting lynched I am going to be really really sad.

On August 15 2013 03:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I challenge you to look at Catch 22. Go ahead and tell me what do you think after that.

On August 15 2013 03:19 Grackaroni wrote:


Was it this exchange? oh god please tell me it was this!




This flip-flop just read very genuine to me

On August 15 2013 03:21 Risen wrote:
Xatalos just scum slipped in PMs.

##unvote
##vote: Xatalos

On August 15 2013 03:24 Risen wrote:


Which question?

On August 15 2013 02:59 Vivax wrote:


I don't see the connection between Sharrant and Acro, can you elaborate?
Also, where did this go?

On August 15 2013 03:32 Xatalos wrote:
I was just going to say that Risen is basically mentally retarded. There's no way anyone sane could think I was scum from our exchange. Like what? I'm starting to lose faith in humanity and most of all in Risen's ability to think at all.

On August 15 2013 03:35 Xatalos wrote:
But it does feel like he truly believed that so it's not really scummy. Just unbelievably dumb. Like totally ridiculous in every imaginable fashion. "Too dumb to be scum".... Not sure. He's taking that so far, is it intentional...... To be honest I doubt it. That's just such a great amount of stupid.

On August 15 2013 00:55 Vivax wrote:
I don't see what you mean with contradictory statements from Risen. You posted that he was wrong about you and Dandel, afterwards you posted this:



So I wonder now, why do you mention something that is supposed to make him scum when in the past it wasn't reason enough and you gave him a townread in spite of what you call a contradiction now.

On August 15 2013 04:06 Grackaroni wrote:


I'll always be here for you babe. Onegu fake claimed


Still want an explanation for this. You are saying fake claiming is bad but you didn't dissuade Oberyn from fakeclaiming and in fact went out of your way to fake claim yourself. Why?