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On August 09 2013 06:07 johnnywup wrote:
you're the one with 3 votes on you. if we have thoughts that are mutually exclusive to alignment, it would like I was more townie, no? I do not think the thoughts are mutually exclusive to alignment, by the way.
And what thoughts are you talking about exactly? Just the speculating on a possible 3p wincon? Because if that's it then you're not saying anything.
what in gods name is this? because I had votes on me, I should be thinking I'm scum, and therefore your thought was more townie?
Acro confirmed that you were thinking about the 3p wincon thing pre-game, so that's whatevs...but what are you getting at with the above quote?
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On August 09 2013 06:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yeah Solstice´s logic is really fishy.
I want more than this Rayn, why is it fishy? What specifically bothers you?
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On August 09 2013 06:53 Clarity_nl wrote:
Why is this conversation happening in the thread as opposed to pms?
#Trafficcop
Clarity my boy. I see no reason not to assume that you think your play so far has been pro-town. With that said, what are you doing here? If your thread directing is useful and pro-town, what is with the self-conscious acknowledgement of the behavior? If it's protown then you should just be carrying on. It seems like you have some inherent guilt here.
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On August 09 2013 08:06 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 05:46 s0Lstice wrote:
Right so it went down like this. I asked to be lord. Two of our guys are fairly new, and I was concerned with their ability to use the spot effectively. This left me and Dandel. He and I got into it pretty good arguing about which of us is better suited for the role, and he somehow extracted a scumread on me from it because he thinks he is good and I said I'm better (holy shit I'm misrepresenting his ability!). He also claimed I was clinging to some weak reasons for wanting to be lord. I felt the same about his reasons. We were at an impasse, with neither wanting to vote for the other. We therefore both settled on Chrom. Both of us seemed to agree that Koshi was looking shady in PMs, so I guess it was the most natural outcome all things considered.
My discussions with Dandel had me leaning town on him. Like I've been telling both Chrom and Dandel though, I really am not comfortable with Dandel as a lord until I am completely sure he is town. As scum, Dandel knows he will be caught. He will therefore have no qualms about using our house abilities (the KP, the one-shot HP check) in a way that is incriminating as he is going to be lynched or vigged anyway. The hypothetical I layed out was that he'd blow our HP check and shoot the towniest dude in the thread. These are things that would probably be traced back to him in the future, but again it's not gonna matter. Just a total waste of our first cycle abilities. At the time, I had to assume that house KP could even be strong enough to kill someone. So thats another strike. A typical scum player is not trying to be obv scum and therefore is unlikely to be so cavalier with these. The risk of scum Dandel trolling his way to the lynch block and me being wrong with my early town read made him unelectable to me for the first cycle.
I pretty much thought that I was better suited. Koshi early on said he was gonna vote for me, but then retracted when he started his own campaign. Chrom preferred Dandel over me because Dandel has easy scum meta. This created an awkward situation. With Dandel refusing to vote me and vice versa, we went to Chrom.
Why are you trying to spin this? You literally told me that you were "reasonably sure" that he was town. That's a STRONG read. Now you're trying to say that you were "leaning town", a weak read? As I've already said, catching scum is a far higher priority than the nightactions. EVEN if you thought that the vigi shot was a 100% hp shot, 1 town for 1 scum is always a good trade. That's assuming that he is scum, which you thought was very unlikely (or maybe not anymore, I guess). Look at this from both sides: Town Sol might see this danger in letting DI be lord, and resist DI in favor of himself, who he sees as the stronger town player. Even with a strong town read on DI, he would prefer himself. HOWEVER, once it became clear that Sol wasn't going to be lord, he would switch to his strong town read, Dandel. Town Sol would never switch to a null read because of the chance of wasting our nightactions, which aren't even that powerful. Scum Sol wants himself to be lord above DI, the strongest town player, at all costs. He tries to invent some reasons why, so he starts by brushing him off with "he's not serious enough". Then, when DI looks like a better candidate for lord, he comes up with the scenario where DI blows the nightactions. When he realizes that he can't become lord, he consolidates onto the weaker town player (myself). AFTER he does this, he slips that he has a strong town read on DI, without realizing that this is inconsistent with his actions. Which one of these sounds more likely? Do you really think that Sol values these nightactions THIS highly?
There is no spin, my lord. My position has been clear and consistent. It's obvious you disagree with it, but I don't see how it makes me scum. Do you believe that I believe that Dandel will out himself as scum if he is scum for any given game without any outside help? If so then my argument holds water.
Also, reasonably sure is not totally sure. I said I would consider Dandel for lord once I am totally sure he is town. I saw no reason to do so while there was still any doubt, for the reasons I mentioned.
Also, can you answer this?
Also, ask yourself if I was scum...would I be saying Dandel is town in my quest to seize our lordship? Why the hell wouldn't I just insinuate he is scum and discredit him that way. I could probably have recaptured Koshi this way, and then maybe Chrom for consolidation. This also puts me in basically zero danger. I could easily back off this no problem at a later time.
from my previous longer post.
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On August 09 2013 11:18 Oberyn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 05:46 s0Lstice wrote:
As scum, Dandel knows he will be caught. He will therefore have no qualms about using our house abilities (the KP, the one-shot HP check) in a way that is incriminating as he is going to be lynched or vigged anyway. The hypothetical I layed out was that he'd blow our HP check and shoot the towniest dude in the thread. These are things that would probably be traced back to him in the future, but again it's not gonna matter. Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 05:46 s0Lstice wrote:
Chrom even if scum, would probably not raise the middle finger and KP who he wanted and blow our check. More likely, he would try to maneuver our KP to someone he wanted with discussion and leave the check alone. Either way, with a scum Dandel or a scum Chrom, they would use the house kp to shoot a town and there is not much you can do about it. It seems to me that the logical decision is to elect the player that is more likely town to avoid this scenario. If Dandel is going to clearly get caught as a scum Lord wouldn't electing him be a good idea? Free scum read? Furthermore, are you saying that preserving the 1-shot hp check is important enough to elect a null player over a town player? I'm not convinced by your reasoning. Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 05:46 s0Lstice wrote:
Dandel also lied about me not trying to figure out people's alignments within our house. So are you saying that Dandel is lying and misrepresenting you, but you think he is town? Why call him a liar, suggesting an anti-town motivation, yet support him at the same time? Also, what specifically in PMs led you to a town read?
I think the HP check is pretty valueable. Like I was saying in PM's, it can have DT like functionality. Also, at the time of this argument, house KP was unknown. Dandel as scum could have presumably killed some awesome townie with our KP. Part of this discussion is how a scum playing for long game (i.e. not Dandel) would think long and hard before abusing house KP, as it could incriminate him. I saw it as much less likely that, if scum, Chrom would be so overt with the scum agenda. He would not take the 'scorched earth' route as I put it to Chrom.
Yes. Dandel's town meta is good enough that he can even misrepresent and lie and I still think he is town now. Have you seen his scum games?
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Oh I missed the last bit Oberyn.
In our PMs he was engaged, openly communicating, and it was clear to me that he REALLY believed that he was the best choice for our house. Like, it's Dandel, so he is kinda trolly as both alignments, but he obviously cared about what was going on...enough to fight me tooth and nail for what he thought was right.
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More...iamp pointed this out. He is not shying away from this clusterfuck. He is right in the thick of it.
In NWM which I co-hosted, he strategically lurked, and avoided the limelight when the heat was on. He was also similarly disengaged as scum in Les Mis.
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Because if he is going to out himself independent of any other action in the game, then blowing the check to incriminate him is a waste. He is going to incriminate himself anyway.
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Put another way, I didn't want to give him the opportunity to take the ability away from us if he is scum. Basically, if Dandel is scum, we would know, and we can identify him without giving him the chance to do any lord ability related damage.
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sorry for triple post
what do you think of Clarity, Oberyn?
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fuck it
On August 09 2013 06:13 Acrofales wrote:
I am going to step in to protect my vassal johnnywup. I initially suspected him because he yelled his true name in our dining hall as he entered Highgarden. It seemed naive at best, and fishing for others' role names at worst. Since then this has been clarified and I suspect it was just a naive gaff to gain our trust.
However, in public he seems overly paranoid about it; possibly because both Sharrant and I were immediately suspicious of his motives. He claimed to have never heard of evil magician assassins who use name magic to murder you in your sleep. The whole discussion played out in a way that I believe him.
Now, this just plain doesn't jibe with the suspicions s0lstice is trying to mount against him.
DI, Koshi, Chromatically: does s0lstice's explanation do justice to what happened in the confines of Storm's End?
What is happening here Acro? I literally have no idea what you think of johnny. Clarify please.
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iamp, do you have any notion of when grack decided he didnt want to vote you and said as much to gumshoe and xatalos? did he actually push for this, and did it happen with enough time for anything to actually come of it?
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actually nvm. this was talked about earlier i just found it.
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On August 09 2013 13:43 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 11:21 s0Lstice wrote:On August 09 2013 08:06 Chromatically wrote:On August 09 2013 05:46 s0Lstice wrote:
Right so it went down like this. I asked to be lord. Two of our guys are fairly new, and I was concerned with their ability to use the spot effectively. This left me and Dandel. He and I got into it pretty good arguing about which of us is better suited for the role, and he somehow extracted a scumread on me from it because he thinks he is good and I said I'm better (holy shit I'm misrepresenting his ability!). He also claimed I was clinging to some weak reasons for wanting to be lord. I felt the same about his reasons. We were at an impasse, with neither wanting to vote for the other. We therefore both settled on Chrom. Both of us seemed to agree that Koshi was looking shady in PMs, so I guess it was the most natural outcome all things considered.
My discussions with Dandel had me leaning town on him. Like I've been telling both Chrom and Dandel though, I really am not comfortable with Dandel as a lord until I am completely sure he is town. As scum, Dandel knows he will be caught. He will therefore have no qualms about using our house abilities (the KP, the one-shot HP check) in a way that is incriminating as he is going to be lynched or vigged anyway. The hypothetical I layed out was that he'd blow our HP check and shoot the towniest dude in the thread. These are things that would probably be traced back to him in the future, but again it's not gonna matter. Just a total waste of our first cycle abilities. At the time, I had to assume that house KP could even be strong enough to kill someone. So thats another strike. A typical scum player is not trying to be obv scum and therefore is unlikely to be so cavalier with these. The risk of scum Dandel trolling his way to the lynch block and me being wrong with my early town read made him unelectable to me for the first cycle.
I pretty much thought that I was better suited. Koshi early on said he was gonna vote for me, but then retracted when he started his own campaign. Chrom preferred Dandel over me because Dandel has easy scum meta. This created an awkward situation. With Dandel refusing to vote me and vice versa, we went to Chrom.
Why are you trying to spin this? You literally told me that you were "reasonably sure" that he was town. That's a STRONG read. Now you're trying to say that you were "leaning town", a weak read? As I've already said, catching scum is a far higher priority than the nightactions. EVEN if you thought that the vigi shot was a 100% hp shot, 1 town for 1 scum is always a good trade. That's assuming that he is scum, which you thought was very unlikely (or maybe not anymore, I guess). Look at this from both sides: Town Sol might see this danger in letting DI be lord, and resist DI in favor of himself, who he sees as the stronger town player. Even with a strong town read on DI, he would prefer himself. HOWEVER, once it became clear that Sol wasn't going to be lord, he would switch to his strong town read, Dandel. Town Sol would never switch to a null read because of the chance of wasting our nightactions, which aren't even that powerful. Scum Sol wants himself to be lord above DI, the strongest town player, at all costs. He tries to invent some reasons why, so he starts by brushing him off with "he's not serious enough". Then, when DI looks like a better candidate for lord, he comes up with the scenario where DI blows the nightactions. When he realizes that he can't become lord, he consolidates onto the weaker town player (myself). AFTER he does this, he slips that he has a strong town read on DI, without realizing that this is inconsistent with his actions. Which one of these sounds more likely? Do you really think that Sol values these nightactions THIS highly? There is no spin, my lord. My position has been clear and consistent. It's obvious you disagree with it, but I don't see how it makes me scum. Do you believe that I believe that Dandel will out himself as scum if he is scum for any given game without any outside help? If so then my argument holds water. Also, reasonably sure is not totally sure. I said I would consider Dandel for lord once I am totally sure he is town. I saw no reason to do so while there was still any doubt, for the reasons I mentioned. This is ridiculous. You will only consider voting him when you're 100% certain he is town? That will never happen, barring a DT check or something. I have a very hard time believing that any townie wouldn't vote their strong townread for flimsy reasons like the ones you've said. I'm obviously not the only one that thinks these reasons are weak. It just makes much more sense from a scum perspective than it does a town perspective like I said earlier (starting off by brushing him off as not serious, then only coming up with the nightaction explanation later after DI was a serious candidate).
Cool, and I'm beginning to wonder why you keep clinging to this when I've been up to plenty of stuff in the meantime and have explained it ad nauseum. What do you think of me lately, and go respond to my PM yea?
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Also you are wrong that its impossible to be 100% sure or near enough that it doesnt matter on Dandel
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Firm, why are you drawing attention to that post if it presumably does not make Acro scummy to you? Does it make him look town?
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On August 09 2013 14:02 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 14:01 s0Lstice wrote:
Firm, why are you drawing attention to that post if it presumably does not make Acro scummy to you? Does it make him look town? You will see in a moment. Can you look over the post for me and see if you see anything that stands out to you?
You first good sir. Don't let me distract you from doing something useful. Just give us something.
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On August 09 2013 11:03 s0Lstice wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 06:07 johnnywup wrote:
you're the one with 3 votes on you. if we have thoughts that are mutually exclusive to alignment, it would like I was more townie, no? I do not think the thoughts are mutually exclusive to alignment, by the way.
And what thoughts are you talking about exactly? Just the speculating on a possible 3p wincon? Because if that's it then you're not saying anything. what in gods name is this? because I had votes on me, I should be thinking I'm scum, and therefore your thought was more townie? Acro confirmed that you were thinking about the 3p wincon thing pre-game, so that's whatevs...but what are you getting at with the above quote?
Can you answer this johnny?
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the post was addressed to me...
its like really weird and nonsensical to ask me to consider your townieness by assuming I myself am scum because there are votes on me.
again I find myself thinking that you have non-townie thoughts
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at work, I'm checking when I can.
Clarity looks better with his pursuit of Oberyn. Looks genuine.
Been thinking johnny probably isn't scum based on what Acro said concerning their PMs. In the end I just don't see scum johnny waltzing into PM's with a role claim without a care in the world, despite the rest of what he has done so far.
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EPT
