Basterd Mini Mafia

On June 27 2013 23:57 Zephirdd wrote:
Actually /out

put JarJar or WoS in my place because I'll play on another game.
A super secret game for cool people that peasants can't join

On June 30 2013 06:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
marv, now that i can be sure that you are town and i do actually have to find scum instead of bullshitting around, let's work together and find all the mafia on D1. Deal?

On July 02 2013 05:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:
We are not lynching Vayne. We are lynching you/WoS/Fuba, so why can't you just comment on them?
You had two days to make a case on Vayne, and you failed. You don't get us to look at him now, 30min before the lynch, when you have shown no interest in asking us to do that before.

On July 02 2013 01:16 VayneAuthority wrote:
can we agree collectively as a game to not claim roles in this open setup? It's pretty broken and I didn't sign up for a lets all claim and lynch at 50/50 game.

With that said I am mainly looking at lazer/WoS now.

Lazer's posting has been fairly more townie as of recently but the fact that he OMGUS'd me from my accusations is a bit alarming when he gave very little reasoning. It seems like he's trying to keep himself on the good side of most of the people in the game so instead of scum hunting he just goes right back at the accuser.

As for WoS I am not really a fan of what he's done so far, he has been very passive yet exceedingly angry which is somewhat how he played in Les Mis. The fact that he says I am playing differently and doesn't know what to make of it leads me to believe that he knows I am town somehow, might have been a scumslip.

On July 02 2013 05:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:
He has similar suspects to me, besides Stutters. He has good reasoning behind his posts. He is looking into places i think are right.

On July 02 2013 05:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:
What do you marv think about Lazer having Vayne as a scumread for all the game and not pushing him at any point until 30min before the lynch? That does not raise red flags at all?

On July 02 2013 05:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Yet you have posted a lot yesterday. Instead of pushing Vayne you hopped on JarJar "because nobody would lynch Vayne with you".


Yes.

On July 02 2013 05:42 Vivax wrote:


No, you need to post reasons to lynch Vayne.
You just finished reading the game and pretend to know that WoS and Vayne are scum.

First you ask for WoS to be lynched.
When that doesn't work, you start pushing Vayne.

You clearly don't want to lynch neither Lazer nor fuba.

On July 02 2013 05:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
marv, i really don't see anything that's bad in Vayne's filter. And besides that, he seems far more readable than in his past games.

On July 02 2013 05:45 s0Lstice wrote:
While I'm catching up..I see Marv is back.

Marv, do me a favor and read through Stutters quick and tell me what you think.

On July 02 2013 01:16 VayneAuthority wrote:
can we agree collectively as a game to not claim roles in this open setup? It's pretty broken and I didn't sign up for a lets all claim and lynch at 50/50 game.

With that said I am mainly looking at lazer/WoS now.

Lazer's posting has been fairly more townie as of recently but the fact that he OMGUS'd me from my accusations is a bit alarming when he gave very little reasoning. It seems like he's trying to keep himself on the good side of most of the people in the game so instead of scum hunting he just goes right back at the accuser.

As for WoS I am not really a fan of what he's done so far, he has been very passive yet exceedingly angry which is somewhat how he played in Les Mis. The fact that he says I am playing differently and doesn't know what to make of it leads me to believe that he knows I am town somehow, might have been a scumslip.

On July 02 2013 05:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
so we have 10min, who do we lynch? Marv are you sure vayne is scum?

On July 02 2013 05:56 s0Lstice wrote:
In regards to Vayne:



This post is the most analysis I've ever seen him do on day 1. This is lame, but I feel inclined to give townie points here. It feels like a genuine change. What do you guys think about this post? WoS was talking about it a little earlier.

On July 02 2013 06:03 s0Lstice wrote:
48/24 Time cycle, deadline 18:00 EDT (-04:00)

I thought we have an hour?

Marv you'd be the last person I'd sheep right now.

On July 02 2013 06:08 s0Lstice wrote:


you've been gone pretty much all of day 1. this is a pretty terrible time to be arguing about it, so let's argue later

On July 02 2013 06:08 JarJarDrinks wrote:
anyone have a vote count?

On July 02 2013 06:11 s0Lstice wrote:


I'm not even talking about the claim. I'm talking about your reads. You being gone and out of the flow of the thread doesn't give me a lot of confidence. You just said a minute ago that certain players are too dense for you to even read right now. I don't mean this as a personal insult, just you don't have the clout to be asking people to be sheeping you right now.

On July 02 2013 06:23 Vivax wrote:
Oh you might have meant fuba *facepalm*

On July 02 2013 06:23 mkfuba07 wrote:

He's saying my quote was contradictory.

On July 02 2013 06:40 Vivax wrote:
Marv you need to tell me what aftershave you use

On July 02 2013 06:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Vayne's disappereacne and not caring about the lynch is far more incriminating than what WoS has done because we don't know where he is, at all...

On July 02 2013 06:53 JarJarDrinks wrote:
I'm back

Me. Pretty sure my vote's already there.

On July 02 2013 06:59 Vivax wrote:
Just judging by this deadline it's clear that this game is not going to be easy -_-

On July 02 2013 07:11 VayneAuthority wrote:
you guys are fucking retarded, I went out grocery shopping and I come back lynched without a chance to defend myself? not even considering that a lynch on this site.

Morons, no gg here.

On July 02 2013 07:12 VayneAuthority wrote:


you're a shitty player, 0/2

On July 02 2013 19:34 Vivax wrote:


I'm 99 % sure only the names listed are in the game.
It says "these roles will be in the game".

Why would the host give someone a name other than ones listed there?

On July 02 2013 20:02 Oatsmaster wrote:
also flavor is tailored to each role

On July 02 2013 20:37 Oatsmaster wrote:
well I meant day 2, sunrise.
Doesnt really matter, just after the night actions.

What are the downsides other than it outs our blues?

On July 01 2013 07:00 mkfuba07 wrote:

Vivax's first post after returning actually had a really good point in it. Not that what marv did was scummy, but that the miller claim definitely can't be taken as a town tell now. Rayn followed that post with this: "No it's not. Fakeclaiming miller 5min into the game is dumb and unnecessary as scum and if someone was dumb enough to fakeclaim after marv we had a 50% chance to right out catch them by having them post the role PM first." I'm starting to see what oats was getting at, now. Rayn seems incapable of believing marv is scum, even though it's been shown that the claim is unreliable. Like, in that quote, while admitting the possibility of a fakeclaim, he refuses to believe it could be marv lying.

-snip-

Vivax: I like what he's said about rayn, wasn't impressed by marv's supposed scumminess for not posting his full role PM. That assumes that town marv would have naturally posted his role PM when claiming miller, something that I don't think is a natural inclination. The fact that he went into Carnival Cruise and found evidence of rayn's previous reactions to miller claims gives him some townie points. Overall, slight town, though he's apparently thinking about marv a lot, which I find strange given that marv hasn't really been here at all.

rayn: After Vivax's marv post, I expected rayn to be less insistent on him being confirmed town. It would have been *much* easier for scum to fakeclaim miller in this situation than I thought, and I don't see how this isn't obvious from a town perspective. Add to that Vivax's case, where he points out that rayn accepts the existence of a miller at face value, and I'm pretty convinced. He's far too eager to accept the claim as truth, when it should now have little effect on the mind of a townie. My only reluctance to vote for him is his activity level, which I tend to associate with town.

##Vote: raynpelikoneet

On July 02 2013 01:39 mkfuba07 wrote:

And it would have been easier this game because every single person in the thread posted before we realized that millers should claim their names as well. Marv could *easily* have figured that out beforehand and gone with it since he knew he had a pre-game excuse for not posting for a while. The fact that you accepted the claim as just about 100% guaranteed so quickly, and then failed to realize the rest of this is what makes you so scummy.

On July 02 2013 05:52 mkfuba07 wrote:

rofl, it's because I think stutters is scum. My problem with the lynch is that I want to lynch rayn, which apparently isn't going to happen today, or stutters, who I'm surprised so many people have a town read on. It's not a "stupid fucking argument". Of course, if you didn't play in Roulette then you might not understand what I'm talking about, but there are contradictions between how he played then and how he's playing now that point towards him being scum. Unfortunately, as those contradictions center around his responses to me, others apparently don't find that compelling.

On July 02 2013 06:05 s0Lstice wrote:
I could do fuba though if its not stutters, that's not a bad lynch.

##vote mkfuba

On July 02 2013 06:29 s0Lstice wrote:
wife and kids are home.

all things considered, I think fuba is a pretty decent lynch. I was nullish, but his more recent stuff looks bad news bears.

let's stay put here.

On July 02 2013 21:48 mkfuba07 wrote:

Oh, and before I forget, is this another promise of action that you've neglected?

On July 02 2013 22:42 JarJarDrinks wrote:
He unvoted

On July 02 2013 22:41 Oatsmaster wrote:

this is town tell imo. Town dont really care where their votes end up and why not just vote for vayne anyway.

On July 02 2013 22:53 Oatsmaster wrote:

so you think gumshoe is competent?
And competent scum also dont do shit like that. So yeah..

On July 02 2013 22:56 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Regardless he unvoted so the point is moo.

What is wierd though is how he disappeared during the crucial part of the day. Especially considering he used that exact same reasoning to build his case against Stutters and myself. See if I was like him, I'd start throwing out all these theorys that he couldn't refute about how the mass roleclaim idea scared him away and he purposefully stayed away from the thread.

On July 02 2013 23:30 JarJarDrinks wrote:

In fact, I relooked @ the piggyback accusation and check this out:

Here's my first post that he's referring to:
Am I really piggybacking? I acknowledge oats case barely and then give 3 of my own reasons for thinking rayne was scummy. And also I wasn't attacking lazer and I certainly wasn't associating them as if they were in league. And then again he mentions actvity by saying that I didn't comment on stutters long absence. Like, I commented on stutters actual posts. What could he possibly expect me to say about the fact that he wasn't posting?

On July 03 2013 01:05 gumshoe wrote:


I believe scum would find passive aggressive ways to throw doubt on people. him saying "nothing in his posting looks townie"

is effectively him saying he looked through his filter, and found him null/scum. The tone of it sounded scum to me though because of the sort of double pronged(associating rayne and lazer) passive way it came across.

On July 03 2013 01:03 WaveofShadow wrote:
Because of the way he uses it. As town you want to try and get answers and reads from as many people as possible and especially that early in the game I'd argue it's a bad idea to trust anyone completely. The fact that Stutters values Vivax's opinions so much above those of anyone else looks like scum buddying up to a player widely regarded as town (though possible Vivax is not town himself, though I admit a buddying attempt this obvious is unlikely to be 2 scum).
He echoes Vivax's sentiments in many ways and to me it looks more likely to come from scum with weak reads/no good reads of his own.

My day 1 is usually a complete crapshoot. I sheep someone who I think is town, or someone who I like (hi!), cross my damn fingers and hope it doesn't blow up in my face. D2 onwards is where I usually always pick up steam.

On July 03 2013 01:16 gumshoe wrote:


But then what is he implying? That Rayne is giving Lazer a free pass? Then hes still accusing and associating them in shallow way, I'm sorry but I find that scummy.

On July 03 2013 02:02 WaveofShadow wrote:
You know marv, for someone who claimed miller so early with no name you certainly do resist this a whole lot.

On July 03 2013 02:14 WaveofShadow wrote:
I'm trying to say that unless scum were given fakeclaims (he 'assumes' as such, though probably a fair assumption since otherwse iGrok would basically be allowing his game to be broken) he could be resisting this for the obvious reason that when he claimed he didn't realize we would be allowed to do this, and now is worried about being caught as scum.

I consider all possibilities and yes it's possible he's miller and he just happened not to bother claiming the name at that point (or at any point after that) but then again, why the weak resisting?

Either way D2 is going to be very interesting. I won't be around from a little before deadline to a few hours after at which point I'll be pretty active (assuming da guy goes to sleep) so if you guys want to wait and claim then, great. Otherwise you're going to have to wait for mine.

On July 03 2013 02:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:
if marv is miller he has zero reason to not believe un-cc'd cop claim. therefore marv is fakeclaiming, there is no millers, there is no cop, and Lazer got an easy fakeclaim aswell. They only have to survive to N2 to win with 2KP, unless third scum is lynched.

On July 03 2013 02:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
as i do not think there are 3 blues, and gumshoe can't know if there is another one.
Lazer could be town due to his claim but that does not change the fact that marv should not doubt his claim.

On July 03 2013 02:37 WaveofShadow wrote:
I said at the start of the game I would not have claimed miller just because someone asked me to. There could very well still be a miller. It is also possible that marv really IS miller but I don't believe that to be as likely as him being scum based on the way he has acted since returning.
I reacted the same way when DP claimed it in CC and was grilled for it, but I believed his claim because of how he acted regarding it. Marv has not acted in this same way and been as absolutely transparent about his claim as he could have been (which imo should be expected if you claim miller and expect not to be lynched). It seems to me that marv expects to skate by on his claim because he's marv, and he's been successful so far.

We'll definitely see what D2 brings regarding all of this though.

By the way Rayn according to your above explanation why can't either of their claims be real? Especially Lazer's imo?

On July 03 2013 02:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
yeah i just said Lazer might be town. BUT IF MARV IS MILLER HE HAS ZERO REASON TO DOUBT UN-CC'D COP!
marv is not a miller and not town.

If any miller is yet to claim they are retarded.

On July 03 2013 02:46 JarJarDrinks wrote:
I agree w/ rayns assesment and also agree that vig should shoot into lazr/marv tonight

On July 03 2013 05:58 WaveofShadow wrote:
Marv one simple question.
Why have you not claimed the name of your role yet?

On July 03 2013 06:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Actually it isn't if you got 3x goon, as you can gamble on there being no cop and no millers, and if you fakeclaim miller and noone cc's you just got pretty much guaranteed 2x fakeclaims.

Why did you assume there is a miller but no cop earlier?

On July 03 2013 06:01 WaveofShadow wrote:

Not the point, because we still have no idea if your claim is genuine, which I've been saying all game despite Rayn's flip-flopping on the matter.
If you give us a name we'll have a better idea once others are forced to claim.

On July 03 2013 06:02 WaveofShadow wrote:

Although to be fair it IS totally irrelevant right now, but my point is that it wasn't yesterday, and you didn't claim your name.

On July 03 2013 04:16 Lazermonkey wrote:
Am I the only one who find it insanely ironic that Rayn is getting shit stormed like mad D1 because he didn't react to the miller claim from "the PoV that town should have done", yet he is all over marv becuase he didn't react to the cop claim from "the PoV that miller should have"?

Seriously Rayn, pull your shit together...

On July 03 2013 06:07 WaveofShadow wrote:

It was doubtful another miller was going to claim that late in the day. I feel it was relevant yesterday because people figured out the game could possibly be broken with name claiming. Other people gladly did so (when under pressure), and since your role (but not the name) was out there in the interest of being transparent (since you feel that is the best play and all) I feel you should have done the same and I find the fact that you didn't scummy.

Alright I'm out until after deadline.

On July 03 2013 06:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:

In this post:

On July 03 2013 05:18 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why on earth did he read Vayne's filter instead of Lazer/Fuba in the first place?!?!?!?!?!?!

On July 03 2013 05:09 WaveofShadow wrote:

If you'll remember in my posts last night I brought up the fact that Marv and Vivax were both content to relegate the lynch to those who weren't able to defend themselves at the time.
I remember Marv's vote on me looking particularly awful.

On July 03 2013 06:15 raynpelikoneet wrote:

You mean this part:

1. The precence of a miller is a straight out clue there is a cop, as scum have 2 KP, everything that fucks with town is too bad.
2. your a) and b) Why the fuck there is noone questioning Lazer if he had fakeclaimed? They would know Lazer is 100% scum and would definitely be questioning him. You are not this stupid.

On July 03 2013 06:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Actually this is a big contradiction.
"I believe Lazer's claim now, but in case i was a cop and not online in the 4 minutes iwould have not counter-claimed him yet, but i apparently believe everyone else had done so".

cool-

On July 03 2013 06:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Vivax, afaik the OP did not state scum have 2 KP until the game was paused.

My early game setup/miller analysis can be thrown out of window.
It's more beneficial for scum to try to play bold and fakeclaim miller (at least if they got 3 goon), because it gives them a good chance of 2x fakeclaims.

There is also evidence that supports marv being scum, what i have pointed out on N1. There is also evidence Lazer is scum, that i have pointed out. And this has even nothing to do with their accosiation, but their individual play/play from role's point of view.

On July 03 2013 06:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
marv, why are you not pushing Vivax?
He has called me out for what i just said in my last post, he has mistakenly compared this game to Carnival and LXI and said the situations are similar. I was top lynch candidate at some point on D1 for that shit.

Here you agree with my early game miller-analysis, yet your "i'm back post" is this:


Really, REALLY, REALLY???

How much i have to find for you guys to lynch marv?

On July 03 2013 06:59 Vivax wrote:
EBWOP: What makes you say that the claim timing sitrs doubts in you

On July 03 2013 07:04 Vivax wrote:


This isn't really relevant as it's relevant what Lazer believed the deadline to be at.

Do you have evidence to back that Lazer knew deadline was actually one hour later? Else this statement looks pretty biased coming from you.

On July 03 2013 07:11 Vivax wrote:


It's still irrelevant to mention the hour of time then, as this can be reduced to the argument that lazer is supposed to be legit cop cause uncounterclaimed, which is unrelated to the timing of the counterclaim imo.

So the best course in your opinion is to swallow the claim unquestioned and not judge lazer by his play?

On July 03 2013 07:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I don't know as you are a sneaky bitch but there definitely is no town!miller!motivation, at least on what you have said before/after.

On July 03 2013 07:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Actually i can give you a clear mafia motivation. You want the town cop to die if he is town.

After this you don't follow your earlier suspicion but label him as town, with a post full of contradictions.

On July 03 2013 07:46 Vivax wrote:
I endorse a shot on marv or Lazer as well.

Hardly seen town marv give a townread based on tryharding and skip on everything else presented. It was fucking deadline man, you don't skip on reading a guy and brush him off cause he's tryharding. That reflects lack of caring.
Lazer/Marv interactions have bad taste to them, too.

Also cause it's funny when marv gets mad.

On July 03 2013 07:50 Vivax wrote:


Wtf dude.
You were still in time to talk about Lazer.

We are talking about Lazer all the fucking time.

You defend his claim.
You say we put words in your mouth when we say you think he's town.

You don't think "Oh well these guys might actually be right I'll go read him and give my opinion on him".

You become all pissy and defensive, and still show zero doubt about and information gathering on lazer, which is scummy regardless of his alignment.

On July 03 2013 08:17 Vivax wrote:


Where is your hope that Lazer's claim would resolve itself now?
You and Lazer, claimed miller and cop, are still alive.
Me and Rayn, unclaimed but supertownie, pushing you two, were shot.

Try to brush it off as WIFOM as much as you like.

On July 03 2013 08:25 Oatsmaster wrote:
Im andy Kagan.

marv is upplaying the risk for scum to fakeclaim in this setup. Lynch him.

On July 03 2013 08:27 Vivax wrote:


1/5 risk bro, assuming cc chance 40 %, then you can claim the other name or simply guess the name the real miller doesn't have.

0.40 * roughly 0.50 = 1/5

On July 03 2013 08:34 gumshoe wrote:


Yes but if your ability doesn't go through....

On July 03 2013 08:40 Vivax wrote:


Put marv before gumshoe.

The guy isn't pushing any reads.
Only defending himself, talking about how his claim would be too risky, and hating.
He said himself he fakeclaimed miller in another game.
He says the claim isn't risky although he can still outplay the other miller if it comes to it.

Look at how he pushes the wagons D1. He was pretty much throwing shit everywhere (WoS, Vayne, fuba) except on Lazer and see what sticks. He said Lazer looked like he was trying, but ignored Rayn saying that Lazer didn't push his scumread Vayne all day long.

He just finished reading the thread and showed zero doubt. Even cockiness has a limit.

On July 03 2013 09:30 Oatsmaster wrote:

because then it doesnt matter as much if the fakeclaimer died because they wont lose KP anyway.
This is a MAIN POINT in your defence that its too risky and not enough benefit for scum to claim.

WoS, who is most likely for being scum out of the blue claimers? BECAUSE Im thinking its you for just claiming and fucking off without even mentioning ANYBODY.

On July 03 2013 09:30 gumshoe wrote:


Theres a fine line between WIFOM and META and I think that line is right or wrong. You used something that wound up being false to make a lynch happen that otherwise shouldnt have happened. You need to be held accountable for that at least.
Also



ouch man 0_0 ouch. Not cool at all ) : its an opinion in a game, I havent even lynched/shot you or your mafia buds yet XD

On July 03 2013 09:32 Oatsmaster wrote:
because confirmed townie status is good.

On July 03 2013 10:15 gumshoe wrote:
As fun as it is exchanging insults with Marv, I think today should focus on Fuba(last to claim, who has to essentially claim survivor, miller or unknown, or he has to fight it out with a claimee) and the blues. As I've already mentioned Virax is blue or we dont know anything about this game XD WOS is uber suspicious Lazer is null, and his alignment might really depend on what Marv is(on the one hand he claimed first as blue, which is uber risky, and they're hasn't been a counter, but if they're is no miller and Marv is his buddy then it might have been a safe claim). I'm biased about Gumshoe.

Vivak is virtually guaranteed vet. Please offer your thoughts on me WOS Lazer and Fuba. I think us 4 should be the candidates for todays lynch. Were much better picks than the great big ball of chaotic uncertainty that is Marv

Marv how do you feel about Lynching WOS or Fuba?

On July 03 2013 19:40 Vivax wrote:
Town marv pushes his lynches a lot, and he talks with his scumreads a lot. This isn't town marv, pretty easy to tell.

On July 03 2013 19:54 Vivax wrote:
I am exaggerating by saying he didn't have any scumreads though.
What I want to say is that he didn't show much conviction in pushing them.

Those people he claimed looked "bad" were fuba, s0lstice, gumshoe and to a lesser extent JJ.

fuba claimed survivor.
gumshoe claimed blue.
s0lstice joined the massclaim quickly.
JJ was the first to claim his name.

I am (totally not unbiased ) assuming that these guys are all mislynches.

On July 03 2013 05:55 marvellosity wrote:




How is this 'playing it down' or 'weakly resisting'? It's discussing various facets? I randomly brought it up in the thread myself because I was musing on it. Given practically everyone hitherto had accepted the claim, what the crap do you think I was trying to achieve?




I literally can't tell which of the two of you are worse. I didn't claim because rayn asked me to, I claimed because I will *always* claim self-aware miller if that's the role I receive, because I consider it best play in all circumstances. 'The way he has acted since returning'? You better back up this shit, otherwise it's just crap-flinging. There's nothing else to say about a miller-claim other than 'i'm miller'.

On July 03 2013 06:18 marvellosity wrote:
45 minutes. Ok all caught up.

Don't think rayn is making a big play, I think he's got it into his head that scum decided to fakeclaim two roles for giggles and that makes both me and Lazer scum. whatever. rayn is right on the cusp of standard of player where he's pushing my credulity in pushing this, but in the end he's not sandroba so maybe I can let it slide.

WoS looks pretty bad to me for passively encouraging this and general shit-flingyness. Do not like.

Not sure about JarJar for jumping on the retardedness and jumping off later. Can't tell if he was town getting caught up or mafia realising a bad thing and getting off it at the right time. Still gonna guess from the claim he's town I guess.

s0lstice is absent and still hasn't explained his vote on fuba, scummy I think.

fuba mysteriously ignored my questions to him, and that makes me suspicious. I'm also suspicious of him for spending so much time thinking apparently and coming to a bad conclusion regarding the claims.

On July 03 2013 06:14 marvellosity wrote:


That's twice now I've caught you flinging shit at me without explaining why. I voted you short of time as a low-effort absent poster, which is practically the only reasonable continuation in my circumstances. I moved on to Vayne because he was even worse in that regard.

On July 03 2013 18:21 marvellosity wrote:

As I was lying in bed last night feeling pretty stoned and trying not to think about mafia, I decided that WoS has to die. I still feel the same today sober. One reason only: WoS claimed to shoot me last night. Now, shooting me is an exceptionally dull, stupid play. Thus, I am left with the choice: is WoS really really terrible at this game, or is he scum? I don't think (I don't hope) he's terrible.

P.S. for all you people saying Vivax wouldn't fakeclaim/waste a hit - he's twice shot his own team-mate as mafia. Just sayin' like.

##Vote: WaveofShadow

On July 03 2013 20:07 Vivax wrote:
I don't recall you genuinely wanting to lynch people for being stupid marv.

Your arguments are: WoS is scum cause of dull, stupid play. Okay.

On July 02 2013 21:51 marvellosity wrote:


Given I can think of at least one example you've played with Stutters before (LIX) and I know in that game it was brought up that Stutters does this as town all the time, why are you bringing this up here?

On July 03 2013 20:29 Lazermonkey wrote:
You don't seem to be even close to 101% sure that WoS is scum here. So why do you disagree?

On July 03 2013 20:47 Lazermonkey wrote:
Even then, if we wait untill night, we will get much more info from it. If he is lying then scum will have to shoot suboptimally and if he is town, scum will then have to decide to either hold a shot or just accept the fact that he is 100% confirmed town once there is 3 shots. And they can't roleblock him, because then I'll get to check someone. And if they shoot both of us, then congratz, you've just lost both of your most suspicious townies right away!

On July 03 2013 21:22 marvellosity wrote:
I've semi-checked out of this game already because there's a bunch of townies (with presumably a mafia or 2 sprinkled in) who seem to genuinely believe I'd fakeclaim miller in this setup, despite how outright retarded it is as a play. If that's the level of logic people are (not) using, then there's already zero hope.

It's beating a dead horse but with 8/9 townies and 12 townie roles, claiming miller is just insanity. And apart from that, the fact that there IS actually a miller with how the setup is presented is very high indeed. Lo and behold, it is me. For there not to be a miller, iGrok would have handpicked the roles to exclude the miller, or if it's RNG then the % chance there ISN'T a town miller is monumentally low (8 or 9 RNG attempts to get miller which is TWO of the 12 spots).

On July 03 2013 21:59 Vivax wrote:
Say hi to the list with the order of claims

• Lt. Aldo Raine - American Veteran Vivax 7
• Hans Landa - German Survivor Jailkeeper Fuba 12
• Sgt. Donny Donowitz - American Vigi WoS 11
• Sgt. Hugo Stiglitz - German Miller Marv 1
• Cpl. Wilhelm Wicki - American Parity C Lazer 3
• Pfc. Smithson Utivich - American Townie Rayn Dead- 6
• Pfc. Omar Ulmer - American Townie Stutters 9
• Pierre LaPadite - French Townie S0lstice 8
• Pfc. Hirschberg - American Townie Vayne Dead - 4
• Pfc. Andy Kagan - American Townie Oats 10
• Pfc. Michael Zimmerman - American Tow JJ 2
• Shoshanna - French Vengeful Townie Gumshoe 5

As we see, WoS HAD to claim Vigi, there was literally no other role he could have taken, and given that the order of this mass claim was shit cause we didn't let fuba and WoS claim first, it gave him an out.

This is how I currently think the game looks like:

Scum has 3 goons.
No cop
No miller
No vigi.

Just me, the veteran, and a vengeful townie.

Knowing that scum has no Hitler, marv decided that a cop was unlikely, and as I pointed out multiple times, miller claim isn't as risky as he's trying to put it. He fakeclaimed in a game facing odds of 40 % to be counterclaimed, hence we know he doesn't mind risks as scum like he tries to tell us in this game.

Lazer claimed cop 4 minutes before the presumed deadline. He was afraid of getting counterclaimed and hence did it only when there was little time left, so any counterclaim couldn't have the time to processed properly. Scum would also have known at this point that there was no miller, hence some more odds in their favour.

WoS claimed the only thing left, leaving us with all blues in the game, which is highly improbable. I feel gumshoe's claim was legit cause of timing (he didn't fear getting cc'd) and cause I didn't feel he was mostly townie in general, except I found him odd at one point for proposing a scum team theory I didn't share and found unlikely.

This is obviously something that looks almost paranoid, 3 scum with 3 fakeclaims. But I'm confident that lynching marv ALL of their play will fall apart, cause I'm confident that he won't flip miller, making Lazer's cop claim quite more suspicious, and WoS claim is suspicious in itself. The guy claims to have shot marv, I have yet to see him reflecting that intention during N1.

There is absolutely NOTHING in his filter that points towards him wanting to shoot marv.

Just follow me, lynch marv, and win the game. I already delayed scum victory by being so supertownie that scum shot me. You owe me this much.
These guys aren't afraid of bussing each other, they know the massclaim puts them into a bad spot, and only looking at their pla

On July 03 2013 21:22 marvellosity wrote:
I've semi-checked out of this game already because there's a bunch of townies (with presumably a mafia or 2 sprinkled in) who seem to genuinely believe I'd fakeclaim miller in this setup, despite how outright retarded it is as a play. If that's the level of logic people are (not) using, then there's already zero hope.

It's beating a dead horse but with 8/9 townies and 12 townie roles, claiming miller is just insanity. And apart from that, the fact that there IS actually a miller with how the setup is presented is very high indeed. Lo and behold, it is me. For there not to be a miller, iGrok would have handpicked the roles to exclude the miller, or if it's RNG then the % chance there ISN'T a town miller is monumentally low (8 or 9 RNG attempts to get miller which is TWO of the 12 spots).

On July 03 2013 21:22 marvellosity wrote:
I've semi-checked out of this game already because there's a bunch of townies (with presumably a mafia or 2 sprinkled in) who seem to genuinely believe I'd fakeclaim miller in this setup, despite how outright retarded it is as a play. If that's the level of logic people are (not) using, then there's already zero hope.

It's beating a dead horse but with 8/9 townies and 12 townie roles, claiming miller is just insanity. And apart from that, the fact that there IS actually a miller with how the setup is presented is very high indeed. Lo and behold, it is me. For there not to be a miller, iGrok would have handpicked the roles to exclude the miller, or if it's RNG then the % chance there ISN'T a town miller is monumentally low (8 or 9 RNG attempts to get miller which is TWO of the 12 spots).

On July 03 2013 21:22 marvellosity wrote:
I've semi-checked out of this game already because there's a bunch of townies (with presumably a mafia or 2 sprinkled in) who seem to genuinely believe I'd fakeclaim miller in this setup, despite how outright retarded it is as a play. If that's the level of logic people are (not) using, then there's already zero hope.

It's beating a dead horse but with 8/9 townies and 12 townie roles, claiming miller is just insanity. And apart from that, the fact that there IS actually a miller with how the setup is presented is very high indeed. Lo and behold, it is me. For there not to be a miller, iGrok would have handpicked the roles to exclude the miller, or if it's RNG then the % chance there ISN'T a town miller is monumentally low (8 or 9 RNG attempts to get miller which is TWO of the 12 spots).

On July 03 2013 22:48 Oatsmaster wrote:
WoS is not scum for being the last to claim.

Are you guys fucking kidding me?

On July 03 2013 22:52 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Yeah I'm suggesting lynching survivor. I'm suggesting fuba is scum and had no choice but claim the only non-red role left in the game.

On July 03 2013 22:54 Vivax wrote:
Oats seriously.

I'll hate you forever if you screw this up. And Rayn will hate you even more.
Use some fucking logic man, Marv, a strong town player, is alive after claiming miller, and Lazer, the cop, gets neither roleblocked nor killed.
The two guys pushing them, me and Rayn, get shot.
What do you think was scum thinking when they chose their targets? Renounce on killing two claim-confirmed "townies" to kill two other plyers who are supposedly on the wrong track?

We don't lynch outside of WoS/marv/Lazer today, I hope we can agree on this.

On July 03 2013 22:55 Oatsmaster wrote:
I think fuba is more likely scum than survivor.
Marv thoughts?

On July 03 2013 22:58 Oatsmaster wrote:
Ok both Vivax and Marv wanna lynch WoS for what reasons exactly? Forgive me for not reading the thread, but all the reasons are obfuscated by the claim shit which isnt even alignment indicative and is just speculation.

On July 03 2013 23:02 Oatsmaster wrote:
if hes scum, what shot?

On July 03 2013 23:05 Oatsmaster wrote:
I dont know marv, you couldve included the word 'claim' in there.

Also, why as scum would he fakeclaim such a terrible shot?

On July 03 2013 23:05 Vivax wrote:
Apologies Oats, but I'm just too sure about this stuff to accept resistance.
Nice pointing it out.

Marv can only claim that WoS had real intention to shoot marv if he thinks WoS is town.
He says WoS bad = WoS scum.

He doesn't argue from a point of view where he assumes the shot is fake.
Why would scum WoS claim that he shot marv in the first place? Marv has to explain that first of all.

On July 03 2013 23:08 Oatsmaster wrote:

no, the sentence is explaining why WoS is scum and apparently you switched perspective between points.


WoS is scum because
A.
B.
C. TERRIBLE SHOT.(scum dont have other guns dude, all vig shots are fake)

Would you have included the word claimed on hindsight?

On July 03 2013 23:09 Vivax wrote:


You don't want to explain why your scumread is scum?
Do you need incentives from me to push your scumread?

On July 03 2013 23:09 Oatsmaster wrote:
are you deliberately avoiding using the word claimed?

On July 03 2013 23:13 Oatsmaster wrote:

Thats why I said it was a scumslip?
Because you know WoS's claim is true.

So anyway, is WoS good at scum Marv? Important question.

On July 03 2013 23:22 Vivax wrote:
There is no logic in arguing that a miller claim is too risky for you to do it.
That is my answer.

On July 03 2013 23:29 Oatsmaster wrote:
i thought common practice was to nolynch on mylo?

Wanna talk about fuba?

In your esteemed opinion bbygrl, is this genuine?

On July 03 2013 23:33 Vivax wrote:
Just sheep me man.
I'm right, trust me.

On July 03 2013 23:36 Oatsmaster wrote:
Yeah im inclined to agree you about the second part of fuba's post. Its so odd, I think he must be survivor

On July 03 2013 23:37 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Vivax, if Fuba is 3rd party then we are @ mylo. Look @ Marvs #s above. Lynching Fuba is the correct play IMO.

On July 03 2013 23:38 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Vivix is 100% confirmed town.

On July 03 2013 23:41 Vivax wrote:


No.

When I shot Toad, it was cause we gave up. I gave up the same day I took the cred for the shot, and we agreed on it in the chat.

The other time, it was with Dandel's smurf. He asked me to shoot him, and I had fakeclaimed vigi so I had to shoot someone, so I shot scum.

You're telling me I was in need to sacrifice a KP and risk getting cc'd when I was in no danger of lynch at all?

On July 03 2013 23:45 JarJarDrinks wrote:
So you want to risk the game on todays lynch? You were just asking if we should vote no lynch because we're @ mylo. This is essentially doing the same thing but w/ a much bigger upside.

On July 03 2013 23:47 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Who's gonna be gone? Vivax obviously. Who else?

On July 03 2013 23:51 Oatsmaster wrote:
Now now, play nice marv.
I think that scum has fakeclaims.
VT fakeclaims.

On July 03 2013 23:56 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Also people. Keep in mind rayne had fuba on his scum list,

@marv, You really think that rayn was completely wrong on all 3 of his scumreads?

On July 03 2013 23:59 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Are these townreads?

On July 04 2013 00:01 Vivax wrote:
"Vivax won't die because he's insane"

He only got shot N1, pushing Lazer and marv as scumreads with the other dead townie.

On July 04 2013 00:04 JarJarDrinks wrote:
But you believe that tonight they will abandon those traits and leave Vivax alive?

On July 04 2013 00:08 Oatsmaster wrote:
Marv, come on, tell me which vanilla townie claim is fake

On July 04 2013 00:33 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Has he really been attacking you all that much? I guess I really didn't get that impression from him. But the fact that he votes WoS makes perfect sense because if he's blue, he has to be sure one of the other blues is lying and WoS is the most likely to be.

On July 04 2013 00:38 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Said this earlier:But now after realizing the whole MYLO thing, I think the answer is obviously fuba.

On July 04 2013 00:42 Stutters695 wrote:
Marv, now that I'm caught up, what do you make of Gumshoe's claim?

When he claimed and said he was blue as opposed to a PR, he claimed being vengeful/vet, practically ensuring he wasn't shot over night and nullifying any benefit of his Vengeful role. It's not an unreasonable assumption to assume scum wouldn't expect every PR to be in the game as well so if they knew You/Lazer were truthful claiming that they're Vet/Venge guarantees they don't die overnight. Only consolation is he claimed before Vivax so he'd be taking a large unecessary risk. Think there is any chance he's scum? I'm kinda leaning he's telling the truth by necessity.

On July 04 2013 00:45 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Here's a small case I made on Fuba :and I really want to emphasize that last point:

The last person to claim just so happened to have the only role left in the game

Add to that the fact that FUBA IS THE ONLY PERSON IN THE THREAD THAT WE CAN AFFORD TO MISLYNCH AND NOT LOSE THE GAME and it becomes a no-brainer.

On July 04 2013 00:53 Stutters695 wrote:

Well by saying PR I was including the possibility of the 3p in there but i guess it doesnt really matter. Its just weird he brings that up when there is literally no upside to saying that at night when the best possible thing that could happen is he eats a nk.

On July 04 2013 01:00 JarJarDrinks wrote:
Isn't that why vote no-lynch @ Mylo is a good strategy?

Please answer these questions marv:
- Do you agree that if we mislynch today we lose the game?
- Are you 100% sure that WoS is scum?

Cause if you answer yes to the first, I don't know how you can answer no to the 2nd.

On July 04 2013 01:10 Vivax wrote:


Cause he'd be the guaranteed not-town lynch.
That's pretty much a nobrainer.

On July 04 2013 01:07 Stutters695 wrote:
Exactly, but by claiming blue when he can't be miller/cop makes him not a good target to shoot. If scum has RB they can RB on the chance he's vig and leave him alone if he's vet/vengeful, effectively making himself a VT for no reason. I'm just not following it from either alignment really.

On July 04 2013 01:16 gumshoe wrote:

WOS frequently dances around the idea of Marv as scum but rarely pushes it. Virtually all his statements in regard to Marv are responses despite Marv supposedly being his number 1 read. Even when confronted with a situation in which Marv has to be scum 100 percent (him getting role blocked randomly because Marv was in danger) he doesn't follow up and tries to redirect the situation onto the blues. In fact Hes barely mentioned Marv since he took his shot. TLDR if WOS is town he needs to be pushing Marv, he isn't and therefor he is scum, which means Marv is likely scum too because if he was town WOS could quite easily get away with bussing him, yet he chooses not to.

On July 04 2013 01:24 gumshoe wrote:


That is unless scum had fake claims. Which seems to be the case. You yourself have proposed this. BTW dont worry were not lynching you today : P. Also WOS is a good player and a fellow canadian. He would not make such an easy mistake.

On July 04 2013 01:27 gumshoe wrote:


Marv I'd just like to say it's a pleasure playing with you XD and yes that townie might die but only after you : P

On July 04 2013 01:29 gumshoe wrote:


Sooooo your agreeing with me? Also seeing as we dont even have 1 conflict of identity dont you think it's somewhat likely scum have fake claims? If not fake claims then what? The host himself said the setup hasn't been fully revealed.

On July 04 2013 01:32 WaveofShadow wrote:
Phoneposting atm
awww nobody wants to react to my posting
makes me sad

Town:
Im dead anyway so I honestly couldnt care less if you guys want to hand the game to scum but id seriously consider hearing me out when the time comes

scumteam:
you forced me into this when I was trying to be all nice to you. i suppose you didnt have a choice considering fuba had to claim late and might have been lynched today especially if he took the miller claim but now you can be damn sure ill push for it.
that is of course unless town doesnt care about what i have to say in which case the games is yours gentlmen

On July 04 2013 01:37 WaveofShadow wrote:

oh im not.