EPTStill musing on this fakeclaim business.
Why on earth would Survivor be given Vigilante of all roles as a fake-claim? It's the only blue role with demonstrable, provable results. gumshoe? anyone? Then again why would mafia. arg.
Basterd Mini Mafia - Page 14
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
Still musing on this fakeclaim business. Why on earth would Survivor be given Vigilante of all roles as a fake-claim? It's the only blue role with demonstrable, provable results. gumshoe? anyone? Then again why would mafia. arg. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On July 04 2013 20:56 JarJarDrinks wrote: How could you have had a feeling of being fucked @ anytime? It's not possible in any way based on what you wrote? Point to a single post or series of posts that would have given you any feeling of being fucked. You can't because that would invalidate everything you wrote. I'd like to hear an answer to this too | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On July 04 2013 21:35 JarJarDrinks wrote: And like, why in the blue hell would fuba not just counterclaim Donny? Mafia must have known that WoS was lying as soon as he claimed because they had to have been given Donny to fakeclaim. Why? I already wrote why this isn't (necessarily) the case | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On July 04 2013 21:30 JarJarDrinks wrote: Yes. I don't think survivor or mafia were given fakeclaims. That's why I asked if people thought it was possible that both wave and fuba were scum (and I'm still thinking this could be the case). Because they were the last 2 to claim. I mean, if mafia were given blues to fakeclaim they'd know every role included in the game. Doesn't that sound like something that would be unfair to give them? No, I don't. Did you even read what I wrote? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On July 04 2013 21:57 JarJarDrinks wrote: Must have missed it. Can you point me to it? On July 04 2013 19:12 marvellosity wrote: Like there are 12 townie roles, and 12 total players in the game. I think iGrok would have foreseen that if mafia have no idea what to claim at any point, then a massclaim looks really really tough on mafia. Also, look at... the Active Games thread? iGrok was contemplating using this as an open setup, but decided against this. What does an open setup mean? It means that mafia (and town alike) would know what roles existed. So in this game as we have it, I think that mafia knew what roles existed in the game, and were thus given a safe, fakeclaim each, and the Survivor got one too, to make 12=12. I'm aware this is speculation, but this is what makes the most sense to me. Effectively it boils down to this. Is it more reasonable that a) scum know what blues/characters exist, but they DON'T know who had them (bear in mind town doesn't know at the start either, i.e. claims aren't bulletproof to *town*), or b) scum can never fakeclaim at any point because any fakeclaim at any point runs a risk of being counterclaimed because they don't know what's in the game, so the only point they can fakeclaim is after all townies have claimed, thus outing the entire team. b) is WAY more unreasonable. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On July 04 2013 23:14 JarJarDrinks wrote: Huh, assumming A, wouldn't they know that Donny didn't exist? If they were given fakeclaims, isn't it reasonable to think that they were given Donny? Perhaps, seems not unlikely that they were told "here's 3 fakeclaims for the 3 of you, claim outside of these at your peril" or some such. I don't know exactly. Either way the b) / a) thing holds pretty much true, don't you think? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On July 04 2013 23:25 WaveofShadow wrote: Phoneposting Ok so if you assume B then the last 4 people to claim must be scum and survivor right? Makes sense right JJD? And as far as being fucked goes, IMSTILL FUCKED, I just don't care now. :D Also anyone else think Vivaxtrying not to get shot tonight is pretty cute? That's not what Vivax is doing. Also stop with the martyring, it's irritating. If you're survivor you have an ok chance of winning this still. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On July 04 2013 23:29 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh and abou fakeclaims: There are some roles I know about. Likewise I'm assuming scum were given some roles they know about. I was worried at first we were given some overlap but after I originally claimed that proved not to be true. They didn't know if there was a donowitz and LIKELY didn't know if I existed (though the RB claim probably gave that away since I'm not scum) By "there are some roles I know about" do you mean "I know these roles are present in the game"? And only some? Were you told Donowitz was safe? Is that the only one you were told was safe? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On July 04 2013 23:37 JarJarDrinks wrote: Assuming JK - 12 people in the game, 8 townies, 1 3rd party - 12 town roles and 1 3rd party so there are 4 "free" town roles left. Mafia was given those 4 roles to fakeclaim or maybe they're only given 3. Either way, they know that those roles are not in the game right? So if Donny was one of those roles then they'd immediately know that WoS was lying. What am I missing? And also this goes hand in hand with the whole "other information" thing he alluded to. There are only 4 "free" roles, exactly enough for 1 JK and 3 mafia. Do you think that igrok gave Scum and 3rd party the same role to fakeclaim? And like you said, he gave the 3rd party a vigilante claim? Really? To the bold. The scenario would be like... mafia have 3 roles to fakeclaim, say some VT role, a miller, and a blue role (not vigilante). Survivor was given vigilante. So there are the perfect number of roles, EXCEPT that one of them is miller, and claiming miller after day 1 is tantamount to suicide. So only survivor is left. As for fake-vigilante claim... yeah that's weird as fuck. Then again it would be weird as fuck for mafia as well. I still find this evidently more believable than mafia being left totally out in the cold and not being able to claim anything ever. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On July 04 2013 23:41 WaveofShadow wrote: Lol why do you think I felt fucked when given a vigi claim? You're right though Oats there's not much more to say on the matter. I'm not allowed to talk about what other role info I wss given. You guys make your decision and ill see you around fliptime unless anyone has anything specific for me. but you were only given one safeclaim? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On July 04 2013 23:52 WaveofShadow wrote: To answer that question is really toeing the line. Effectively the answer is yes. From this I'm extrapolating you know, at least partly, what fakeclaims mafia were given. And thus you know who mafia are. Which stops making sense. Sigh. | ||
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marvellosity
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marvellosity
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I really think we need to lynch fuba, because if WoS is scum constantly referencing host decisions/orders, it's one of the biggest dick moves of all time imo. Don't wanna go down that path. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On July 05 2013 00:07 gumshoe wrote: I seriously could not care less. Any information that we reveal here scum in tern will posses. I rather we both be in the dark, let them shit they're pants, Wos's info is no threat to us. Actually scum probably have more of whatever information it is than town. Town having information in the thread is always (almost) better than not having information in the thread ^_^ | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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marvellosity
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On July 05 2013 00:09 JarJarDrinks wrote: I mean, I gave it some thought and then realized that there was nothing that he could have been given aside from things that outright tell him who scum is which obviously doesn't make sense. But I didn't give it too much thought beyond that because WoS is pretty clearly scum. If I didn't agree with gumshoe already, this would mean I did in the end On July 05 2013 00:06 marvellosity wrote: I really think we need to lynch fuba, because if WoS is scum constantly referencing host decisions/orders, it's one of the biggest dick moves of all time imo. Don't wanna go down that path. Really is that simple for me by now. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On July 05 2013 00:10 WaveofShadow wrote: Lol now I feel like I'll have to try that in my next scumgame. I don't see what's inherently dickish about it, especially since this is kind of game that was created. If it was like Les (where we got fakeclaims) with no named VTs and a semi-closed setup (I think?) then the fakeclaims wouldn't even be in question because there was no way for people to reference or know anything. The inherently dickish thing would be making up what hosts did or did not tell you. If everything you've said is true, then you have to be survivor. I think making up shit that hosts haven't said is pretty dickish. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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marvellosity
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On July 05 2013 00:13 WaveofShadow wrote: I'm pretty sure that's also against the rules. Right. So now you understand what I'm getting at, yes? For you to be mafia you'd have to be telling porkies over what iGrok told you. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On July 05 2013 00:15 Oatsmaster wrote: Lying isnt against the rules. Lol. But yeah I agree with Marv, in my experience, too dickish if its mafia is a good heuristic. JJD, lets say if you claim you die. Town says mass claim d2. Do you feel fucked? Lying isn't the same as lying about what hosts told you. In my opinion at least. | ||
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