[T] Nuclear Winter Mafia - Page 203

On July 21 2013 14:35 WaveofShadow wrote:

I'm pretty sure this was discussed in one of the very first podcasts actually.
And I'm pretty sure Geript was actually involved in it.

It essentially comes down to the fact that 'vets' are vets for a reason, and have a certain way of doing things that in general make people want to follow their directions. They have shown themselves to be quality players time and time again. That doesn't necessarily mean they are perfect or should always be sheeped or are incapable of fucking up or whatever. I dunno I'm pretty sure in the podcast the 'vet' vs 'noob' bias was debunked somewhat.
Solstice what specifically are you referring to in this game about vets being treated differently than others?

On July 21 2013 14:52 s0Lstice wrote:


there isn't a particular example this game, its an overall feeling from all the games i've read and played in.

I get the argument that people listen to vets because they often say shit worth listening to. That doesn't stop it from being frustrating. It often feels like there are two games going on concurrently...one where the vets play with eachother, and one where the rabble does whatever the rabble does. The problem is that it makes a lot of worthwhile shit get entirely overlooked. I think its frustrating for both sides really. It creates a situation where non-vets are readily ignored, and the vets get hounded for stupid shit by all the 'big game hunters.'

A good specific example is Basterd actually. Remember what happened on our day 1 lynch there WoS? Town sheeped Marv, who was gone for most of day 1. This is not Marv's fault by any means, but imagine how a non-vet feels in that situation. Why even bother trying if the town, like so many other towns, is going to just end up lynching who vet X tells us to?

Another random example is Mad Men, from awhile ago (not sure why that suddenly popped in my head lol). Toadesstern as town played the game by making a list of the vets, declaring that some of the vets had to be scum, and then focused on his list to the exclusion of all else.

This kind of shit happens around here, and it's not rare. It is not a problem if the rule is that useful shit gets get read, and ignorant stuff gets ignored. The rule around here though is closer to, in my opinion: 'the vets get read, and non-vets don't.'

On July 21 2013 15:00 WaveofShadow wrote:

Again, I can't speak much for other people's thought processes, but people honestly should have known that D1 lynch on Vayne in Basterd was fucking terrible. If people were listening to Marv because he's Marv on that then that's their own fault. Why should a non-vet bother trying? Do you think the current 'vets' earned their 'status' through lack of trying? No, they consistently perform in games. If the people who are complaining were/are capable of doing the same thing then it wouldn't BE an issue.

Talking about it not being a problem if useful shit gets read and ignorant stuff gets ignored---Ace talked about this specifically, as did Artanis in the Obs QT. The whole problem was there WAS way too much ignorant shit going on in the thread. It's not a coincidence that 'vets' get listened to while others go ignored a lot of the time---it's because they will often be the ones who are talking about the useful shit. That's not a hard and fast rule; I've seen plenty of stupid shit from vets and smart stuff from relative unknowns, but if people aren't willing to look within the thread itself and see how people are acting and what they're talking about and instead base all of their decisions on a visible 'vet' minority then that's their problem. I don't feel I do this and since you seem to be so against it, you probably don't either. How many people in this game actively did it?

Another thing to think about was how much of this huge thread was productive discussion? I'd say MAYBE 1/4. Is that a result of lack of veterans to herd the town? I don't believe so but I think it's tough to say either way.

On July 21 2013 15:29 Ace wrote:
100% agreed on the "vet" status bullshit. Too much of the game is played based on reputation (or meta) and not enough of in-game behavior. I think someone like say Stutters is generally overlooked even though he can be a valuable townie. All because he doesn't (afaik) have a huge reputation.

ETA: Also from now on, now you know one of the reasons I try not to post too many reads. I've been saying for years people sheep vets even though we can be wrong. Read some games where one popular guy says "I think X is obvious Town" and watch him/her get treated as confirmed Town by most of the players.

Are you kidding me? The only reason why Koshi looked like town was because he looked to stupid to be scum. Guess I'll just have to lynch him because I doubt anyone will be able to tell a difference between his normal town stupid and his scum stupid. Also, I'm removing the too stupid to be scum as a town tell because him. If anyone can be that stupid normally or fake being that stupid that well then oh well.

On July 22 2013 00:58 Koshi wrote:
Thx guys. I am planning to not use the inexperienced card anymore from now on, even though I am a newbie. Let's see where it brings us. I agree to an extend it is a lame way to play the game.

On July 22 2013 01:03 WaveofShadow wrote:

Well here's the thing: if you tried to pull the inexperience card now, based on your performance this game you'd probably be lynched.