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On July 09 2013 03:01 Ace wrote:
@Boson: what was the actual case for Austin?
1) Town austin is involved. Town austin makes cases and is aggressive. Here is absolutely passive and non-committing.
2 Austin blatantly lied here:
On July 08 2013 05:56 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2013 05:51 Xatalos wrote:
I'll go ahead and vote austinmcc now.
##Vote austinmcc
He's been basically just asking (filler) questions and not scumhunting or showing effort so far. At least he's less lurky than in PTP, but that's not a hard feat, and it's still not even close to how I remember his townie self. Just comparing his town meta to this game (or PTP) makes it feel like he has to be scum or 3rd party etc. I didn't push this stance hard enough in PTP, but I'm not going to repeat the same mistake now - unless he starts appearing townish ASAP.
geript, you still want to lynch WoS or whom? What is my town meta? More specifically, my town meta in a large game?Also, do you have interest in the answers to the questions that I have asked, but have not gotten answers to?
He's alluding to the fact that his town meta in a large game is pretty much the same as in this game. Here I explain this is just not true:
On July 08 2013 22:51 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2013 06:15 austinmcc wrote:On July 08 2013 06:06 Xatalos wrote:On July 08 2013 05:56 austinmcc wrote:On July 08 2013 05:51 Xatalos wrote:
I'll go ahead and vote austinmcc now.
##Vote austinmcc
He's been basically just asking (filler) questions and not scumhunting or showing effort so far. At least he's less lurky than in PTP, but that's not a hard feat, and it's still not even close to how I remember his townie self. Just comparing his town meta to this game (or PTP) makes it feel like he has to be scum or 3rd party etc. I didn't push this stance hard enough in PTP, but I'm not going to repeat the same mistake now - unless he starts appearing townish ASAP.
geript, you still want to lynch WoS or whom? What is my town meta? M ore specifically, my town meta in a large game?Also, do you have interest in the answers to the questions that I have asked, but have not gotten answers to? Paranoia Mafia. That's the only game where we've played together as town so far, I think. Actually I suspected you there for some time (role-related stuff) but I didn't think your overall posting was scummy. In fact, I mentioned at several points how townish your posting was, and ultimately I came to the right and simple conclusion that you were indeed town. I can't say I get any of that same feeling in this game so far though. What does your last sentence mean? As far as I can tell, you gave three reasons for thinking I'm scummy. I'm basically just asking filler questions I'm not scumhunting/putting in effort I am not my townie self/I am not playing in accordance with my town meta My last sentence is in relation to your first reason for thinking I'm scum. If my questions are filler, they don't matter, and I'm not going anywhere with them. However, if you're actually interested in the answers to my questions, then they don't seem like they are filler. If you're not interested in the answers to my questions, I ... I dunno, I think you should be. As far as meta, go look at any larger game. Especially a larger game where I don't know 1/2 or 2/3 the people. My play in a single medium-size game, where I was blue, and almost got lynched because I was an idiot, doesn't seem like the perfect point of comparison. Or go look at my scum games. I was interested in what exactly you were pulling meta from, seeing as it appears to be a large part of your reason for voting me. That's it, was just poking at your reasons for voting me. austin, I don't think you can get away with justifying your play here with a "go look at my town meta in a larger game". Here's your filter from Liquid City: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=371260&user=austinmccYou seemed a ton more interested in the game. Here the only part where I felt you interested is when you were defending yourself. Can you give me something on Alaskaslam? You had some interaction with him, and I'd like to know your opinion on him atm.
As scum, it's very easy and convenient to say: "just look at my meta and you will see that [ . . . ]", because obviously no one is gonna open his earlier games and check on whether that's true or not.
I feel that if he were town, he would more likely admit that his meta was different in this game, rather than imply that it is the same.
Funnily enough, he later admits to being lazy/reactive, even though he tried to meta-defend himself earlier. Makes little sense to me.
3. Austin's posts so far have little substance. They contain a high amount of fluff and are generally not what I would expect from a townie him.
"stop posting so much!!!", for example, I have never seen him display that sort of feeling: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=418049¤tpage=30#593
I view this more as a "look at me, I'm reading the thread and am being pained by how many useless posts there are", to show that he's interested. As it stands, what his filter tells me is in exact contrast, that he doesn't really feel interested in the game.
These are the reasons so far I think he is a good lynch. I want him to respond though.
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On July 09 2013 03:09 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 03:00 Z-BosoN wrote:On July 09 2013 02:55 Xatalos wrote:On July 09 2013 02:48 Ace wrote:
Look at who was leading when I posted that. Dandel didn't have many votes, and Chezinu was leading. I then voted from Chezinu to Dandel.
Why would I be trying to save the people I'm voting for? :/ Hmm. Well, I guess that's not such a likely scenario (I'd put it in the same category as scum launching a fake nuke at scum Meapak). I don't know why town Ace would advocate a no-lynch even instead of a random lurker though. Why is that your FIRST thought is to advice no-lynching if we can't get a clear consensus? Shouldn't you be pushing your own opinion right now instead of waiting for a consensus or softly pushing a no-lynch? It feels overall scummy. Focus. He's unlikely to get lynched today. I'm glad you agree that he is scummy, but I feel time is better spent discussing this after the lynch time. Right now, aside from a policy lynch, who are your top lynches? Whatever, I guess it's a waste of time atm to talk about Ace. I still feel like austinmcc has a good chance of being scum. See my earlier (2 I think) case-posts about him. It's not making me feel any better that he still hasn't done anything after hastily defending himself against me. He hasn't really done anything remarkable at all besides defending my pressure. But he's not getting lynched today clearly. I'm fine with either Chezinu or Dandel Ion, who are the top lynch candidates atm. Chezinu for nuking me and not doing anything after that despite requests and Dandel Ion for playing very differently from his town meta and quite much like his scum meta (inactive and useless).
Well, doesn't it make sense for a scum chezinu to make some bullshit reason up for sending a nuke towards you? I don't really understand his play, and like I said earlier, I feel he is better suited for blues.
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Oh, and another thing, Is dandel ion's meta as scum = inactive and useless? As I remember, he played a decent scum in some newbie game a while back. Are there any records of him being inactive as town?
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Actually, regarding #2 in my case of austin. After rereading, he's not necessarily alluding that it is the same, but it's still an attempt to meta-defend himself, in my eyes. The rest of the point I made remains though. Keep this in mind when answering.
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On July 09 2013 03:27 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 02:57 Z-BosoN wrote:On July 09 2013 02:48 WaveofShadow wrote:
Ok this has been bugging me a little.
Who has played with Boson before/
Boson why do you tend not to contribute to conversations taking place and help us out with those and instead follow your own trains of thought and lines of questioning all game? Can you not do both? I'm still lagged behind, and I don't see the purpose of your conversation. You are hinting aggression towards ace with few hours left on the vote deadline, when he is clearly not getting lynched We should be focusing on whether or not we are going through a policy lynch or if we should try to find a better suspect. I don't like a policy lynch and I want to find a better suspect to suggest we lynch. Austin seems like a solid choice, and I am prompting for him to answer before I go balls out. Also, just stfu about chezinu. So much pointless discussion on someone who is so random and hard to read. If he were scum, why wouldn't he also explain his "bad nuke"? I can't make sense from his play and I feel it's just a wasted effort, and thus will not bother with it. I may be dead wrong here, but he is better suited for blue roles (checks and such). I feel austin is the better choice here. Veyne is also good, but I want to save him for later. what do you mean by the bolded
I mean that I don't want to lynch him today ^^
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On July 09 2013 03:29 VayneAuthority wrote:
probably that scum wants to try and mislynch me tomorrow lawl.
You. Check this out. What do you think of Alakaslam? He kinda wants you dead dude.
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Xatalos, tell me more about gumshoe. I remember that I didn't like some of his posts, and I also remember that you played with him before. Any thoughts?
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On July 09 2013 03:35 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 03:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
This lynch looks so bad and we should be lynching Chezinu. why is chezinu more likely scum than dandyloin ps 'because chezinu did something stupid' is not a good reason until we know whether or not the stupid thing targeted townies or other scum. since chezinu is so willing to play badly as town, its impossible to tell his alignment until we have flips to analyze his actions in relationship to. or until someone vigs him.
If anyone disagrees with this bit on chezinu, please step up.
Regarding dande lion, why do so many people want to lynch him for being useless and not Abenson and caucasianasian, who are even more useless? Can anyone please be clear on this?
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I kinda share geripts sentiment that dandel's wagon took off really damn fast in contrast to the other lurkers
If we can't come up with a non-policy lynch, then I'ma hop on with caucasianasian
@austin
No comment on the case I wrote on you?
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Well I have to go, I'll be back tomorrow. Lynch CA dudes, much better choice.
##vote caucasianasian
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On July 09 2013 04:10 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 03:54 Z-BosoN wrote:
I kinda share geripts sentiment that dandel's wagon took off really damn fast in contrast to the other lurkers
If we can't come up with a non-policy lynch, then I'ma hop on with caucasianasian
@austin
No comment on the case I wrote on you?
Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 03:09 austinmcc wrote:On July 08 2013 22:51 Z-BosoN wrote:On July 08 2013 06:15 austinmcc wrote:On July 08 2013 06:06 Xatalos wrote:On July 08 2013 05:56 austinmcc wrote:On July 08 2013 05:51 Xatalos wrote:
I'll go ahead and vote austinmcc now.
##Vote austinmcc
He's been basically just asking (filler) questions and not scumhunting or showing effort so far. At least he's less lurky than in PTP, but that's not a hard feat, and it's still not even close to how I remember his townie self. Just comparing his town meta to this game (or PTP) makes it feel like he has to be scum or 3rd party etc. I didn't push this stance hard enough in PTP, but I'm not going to repeat the same mistake now - unless he starts appearing townish ASAP.
geript, you still want to lynch WoS or whom? What is my town meta? M ore specifically, my town meta in a large game?Also, do you have interest in the answers to the questions that I have asked, but have not gotten answers to? Paranoia Mafia. That's the only game where we've played together as town so far, I think. Actually I suspected you there for some time (role-related stuff) but I didn't think your overall posting was scummy. In fact, I mentioned at several points how townish your posting was, and ultimately I came to the right and simple conclusion that you were indeed town. I can't say I get any of that same feeling in this game so far though. What does your last sentence mean? As far as I can tell, you gave three reasons for thinking I'm scummy. I'm basically just asking filler questions I'm not scumhunting/putting in effort I am not my townie self/I am not playing in accordance with my town meta My last sentence is in relation to your first reason for thinking I'm scum. If my questions are filler, they don't matter, and I'm not going anywhere with them. However, if you're actually interested in the answers to my questions, then they don't seem like they are filler. If you're not interested in the answers to my questions, I ... I dunno, I think you should be. As far as meta, go look at any larger game. Especially a larger game where I don't know 1/2 or 2/3 the people. My play in a single medium-size game, where I was blue, and almost got lynched because I was an idiot, doesn't seem like the perfect point of comparison. Or go look at my scum games. I was interested in what exactly you were pulling meta from, seeing as it appears to be a large part of your reason for voting me. That's it, was just poking at your reasons for voting me. austin, I don't think you can get away with justifying your play here with a "go look at my town meta in a larger game". Here's your filter from Liquid City: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=371260&user=austinmccYou seemed a ton more interested in the game. Here the only part where I felt you interested is when you were defending yourself. Can you give me something on Alaskaslam? You had some interaction with him, and I'd like to know your opinion on him atm. As long as I'm posting that, I'll address this. Go read my filter, or the D1 there. If you remember, marv and others wanted to lynch me, and at some point like 3/4 of the way through D1 I picked up a couple votes with a few others thinking about voting me if I didn't get back and do something. I came back to the thread with a couple hours to go in D1. Posted a bunch of stuff. Most of it was wrong, but i DID nail scumNode and almost got him lynched before we all swapped off. I actually didn't do much D1 of that game until the last few hours, got called out for it, and got in some decent posting only at the very end of the day. As far as alakaslam, I'm null/mildly town on him. I get very, very frustrated with people who don't post solid reasoning and rely on general statements like "My read is x because of his filter." In the past, I have found it very scummy when people did not substantiate with specific references to posts/conversations at a granular level. Alakaslam did not do that, and continued to not do that. However, I have also found that there are lots of people who just don't get that granular, and it's not as scummy as my mind tells me it is. Given the way in which he responded, playing the new guy/what do you want from me card SO hard, and how he continued to try and post and eventually DID post something specific about the MZ/rayn exchange he liked, I am not scummy on him. I don't think he should be a focus right now. This bit of one of your posts on me: Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 03:17 Z-BosoN wrote:
it's very easy and convenient to say: "just look at my meta and you will see that [ . . . ]", because obviously no one is gonna open his earlier games and check on whether that's true or not. is entirely true. You limited it to scum, but regardless of my alignment, no one is opening my earlier games to check on whether what they're saying is true. You think I'm usually active, looking very townie, etc. I am just pointing out that, within a specific large game that you remember, this exact same thing happened. I posted a bunch at the very end of D1, during N1, and during D2. I got called out on my D1 play, collected some votes and some other people WANTING to push my lynch (marv brought it up a couple times but never voted). What I am saying, and the reason I mentioned that game, is that you are misremembering exactly what happened in a game/some games. If you go back and actually read the games you remember, you SHOULD see that I am generally not terribly active/leader-y in large games on D1.
Ok, last thing before I leave.
I dunno man, you reek of disinterest this game. Even if you haven't yet made long and aggressive posts, the attitude you display here building up to the end of d1 is totally different than from what I recall.
You also make easy posts here, discussing meta, whatever Ace might have meant, and what not, but when it comes to actually trying to find scum, I find your posting here lacking.
I kinda want you dead, but it seems that it's dandel on the plate today, with a small chance of CA.
Vote CA and I might just back off from you. Maybe.
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On July 09 2013 04:15 Xatalos wrote:
I can get behind austinmcc but looks like nobody else can, so it's a fool's errand to try that right now.
wait wait, I can totally do austin
Anyone else?
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On July 09 2013 04:16 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 04:13 Z-BosoN wrote:
Well I have to go, I'll be back tomorrow. Lynch CA dudes, much better choice.
##vote caucasianasian Well that was a... random vote if anything. Explain?
It seems that people are willing to policy lynch. If it's a policy lynch, I would rather CA, because I think he's a better choice, because I agree with gerupt (see my filter, I commented on this earlier).
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On July 09 2013 04:22 austinmcc wrote:Z-Boson, for reference, here are posts from that game, from a guy who has played with me a decent bit: + Show Spoiler +On October 02 2012 08:19 marvellosity wrote:
Bleh. I really can't tell if austin is scummy or just being absolutely useless. Practically every game we've played together I've found him scummy on day 1 and he turned out just to be useless.
Like, see how he's been posting in that other game he's in and not this one? Not caring about this one? Yeah, scummy as shit, except he did the same thing in rock band as town. On October 02 2012 08:32 marvellosity wrote:
That post isn't helping you not be useless though is it austin On October 02 2012 08:44 marvellosity wrote:
Ugh, too much screwing meta. I don't really want to lynch austin because I know he can be totally useless day 1 as here, and others don't want to lynch the pretty scummy annul because they want to wait and see.
Why do you think austin has a higher chance of flipping scum than annul, BC? On October 03 2012 06:13 marvellosity wrote:
austin: that's because you always play so fking scummy for most of day 1 dear. For anyone wanting to vote me because of inactivity/not looking super townie on D1, I can understand that. But good lord if you're going to do that because you think normally I look super townie on D1, please check and make sure you are correctly remembering games. Off the top of my head, I know that Liquid City and ... Movie Star Mini involved me doing jack all D1 and looking scummy, believe Rock Band and some game where Marv smurfed as Fivetouch and I didn't really do anything all game but argue with him as well. Doesn't make it a good way to play or a townie way to play. But stop presenting as fact that I always/usually look magically townie on D1. Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 04:20 Z-BosoN wrote:
Ok, last thing before I leave.
I dunno man, you reek of disinterest this game. Even if you haven't yet made long and aggressive posts, the attitude you display here building up to the end of d1 is totally different than from what I recall.
You also make easy posts here, discussing meta, whatever Ace might have meant, and what not, but when it comes to actually trying to find scum, I find your posting here lacking. This is fine. All I'm trying to say is, I think you're not recalling things properly, and while I don't claim to be super-townie, I do claim to not be playing out of the ordinary. I don't care if I look scummy right now, I can and will fix that. I care if the only reason I look scummy is for doing something that is a common occurrence.
Allright, I want to see how you improve throughout day 2.
I'm out, cyall tomorrow.
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Just to let you guys know, today and tomorrow I'll be fairly busy, so I might go awol for said time period.
I'll try to keep up with the read and post whenever I can.
Right now I would look into johnnywup as well. He posted this:
On July 09 2013 06:41 johnnywup wrote:
Liking ON lynch much more ATM. Changing it to that.
And then disappeared for the next 3-4 pages. As soon as day post comes out, he comments, which means he was just chillin watching town get all confused and shit. without really participating.
Ace, as mentioned before, is someone with very questionable play, towards the end of d1, and should be under heavy fire for today.
When I get back, I'll go over the reyne fiasco and see if there's any chance his latest explanation pans out.
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Allright I just woke up.
I have a doctors appointment right now, but when I get back I'll play decently and such
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Wait a minute... what did you claim?
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Veyne might be trying to smarty us as scum. I said I wanted to "Save him for later" in d1 because I thought he claimed cop:
On July 07 2013 09:48 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On July 07 2013 09:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:On July 07 2013 09:41 VayneAuthority wrote:On July 07 2013 09:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:On July 07 2013 09:39 VayneAuthority wrote:
doesn't Z-boson just look like a name that's going to flip scum? Do you have anything to say about anything related to the game? what in particular? The chezinu nuke already is weird but we havent seen any flips yet. You were perfectly capable of giving analysis on D1 in Basterd mafia. I expect you a capable doing that here aswell. I'll take a raincheck on that then. I have commented on everything I found interesting so far so I guess I should close the thread now as I'm just spamming at this point.
raincheck = Rayne Check!
This is more or less confirmed by his reaction to rayne's lying:
On July 09 2013 11:53 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 07:08 VayneAuthority wrote:
dandel, gumshoe, ghost, onegu.... I think rayn is town he just messed up. I thought ON might be scum too but wasn't sure enough of it to vote for that those are the 4 im looking at heavily after the voting. All 3 of them gave absolutely zero reason to flip onto ON last second
Now, at a time when rayne is under heavy pressure he just nonchallantly dismisses it as "meh. He's town but messed up"... This really tells us that he's confident about it because of the "rain check"
And now he tries to claim as kenpachi? Erm.... I feel something is wrong here
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On July 12 2013 04:06 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 04:03 Z-BosoN wrote:Veyne might be trying to smarty us as scum. I said I wanted to "Save him for later" in d1 because I thought he claimed cop: On July 07 2013 09:48 VayneAuthority wrote:On July 07 2013 09:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:On July 07 2013 09:41 VayneAuthority wrote:On July 07 2013 09:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:On July 07 2013 09:39 VayneAuthority wrote:
doesn't Z-boson just look like a name that's going to flip scum? Do you have anything to say about anything related to the game? what in particular? The chezinu nuke already is weird but we havent seen any flips yet. You were perfectly capable of giving analysis on D1 in Basterd mafia. I expect you a capable doing that here aswell. I'll take a raincheck on that then. I have commented on everything I found interesting so far so I guess I should close the thread now as I'm just spamming at this point. raincheck = Rayne Check! This is more or less confirmed by his reaction to rayne's lying: On July 09 2013 11:53 VayneAuthority wrote:On July 09 2013 07:08 VayneAuthority wrote:
dandel, gumshoe, ghost, onegu.... I think rayn is town he just messed up. I thought ON might be scum too but wasn't sure enough of it to vote for that those are the 4 im looking at heavily after the voting. All 3 of them gave absolutely zero reason to flip onto ON last second Now, at a time when rayne is under heavy pressure he just nonchallantly dismisses it as "meh. He's town but messed up"... This really tells us that he's confident about it because of the "rain check" And now he tries to claim as kenpachi? Erm.... I feel something is wrong here Lol, I've played about 5 or so games with rayne now, we are much better at reading each other. When he's that active and doing crazy shit, he's town.
Then why did you not pronounce yourself when Rayne was being bombarded by Ace , MZ and a few others, and help defend someone you were pretty sure was town? Why did you only mention him once being pressured?
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On July 12 2013 04:40 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2013 04:30 Z-BosoN wrote:On July 12 2013 04:06 VayneAuthority wrote:On July 12 2013 04:03 Z-BosoN wrote:Veyne might be trying to smarty us as scum. I said I wanted to "Save him for later" in d1 because I thought he claimed cop: On July 07 2013 09:48 VayneAuthority wrote:On July 07 2013 09:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:On July 07 2013 09:41 VayneAuthority wrote:On July 07 2013 09:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:On July 07 2013 09:39 VayneAuthority wrote:
doesn't Z-boson just look like a name that's going to flip scum? Do you have anything to say about anything related to the game? what in particular? The chezinu nuke already is weird but we havent seen any flips yet. You were perfectly capable of giving analysis on D1 in Basterd mafia. I expect you a capable doing that here aswell. I'll take a raincheck on that then. I have commented on everything I found interesting so far so I guess I should close the thread now as I'm just spamming at this point. raincheck = Rayne Check! This is more or less confirmed by his reaction to rayne's lying: On July 09 2013 11:53 VayneAuthority wrote:On July 09 2013 07:08 VayneAuthority wrote:
dandel, gumshoe, ghost, onegu.... I think rayn is town he just messed up. I thought ON might be scum too but wasn't sure enough of it to vote for that those are the 4 im looking at heavily after the voting. All 3 of them gave absolutely zero reason to flip onto ON last second Now, at a time when rayne is under heavy pressure he just nonchallantly dismisses it as "meh. He's town but messed up"... This really tells us that he's confident about it because of the "rain check" And now he tries to claim as kenpachi? Erm.... I feel something is wrong here Lol, I've played about 5 or so games with rayne now, we are much better at reading each other. When he's that active and doing crazy shit, he's town. Then why did you not pronounce yourself when Rayne was being bombarded by Ace , MZ and a few others, and help defend someone you were pretty sure was town? Why did you only mention him once being pressured? what the hell are you talking about? I told people multiple times to stop the rayn nonsense, people listening was a different story. Don't make shit up or we have nothing to talk about here.
Wait, you clearly wanted the rayne thing to stop, but because you were angry it clogged up discussion. This is pretty clear from both these posts that followed:
On July 09 2013 22:18 VayneAuthority wrote:
We should probably give this rayn thing a rest for a bit as its killing discussion before the night post. People that have a chance to die should really throw out some reads/cases before they are gone.
I really need people's opinions on these three men, as I think they are all scum.
gumshoe, ghost, onegu
They don't have time to post anything meaningful in the thread but are able to show up last second and ninjavote for ON? Especially gumshoe who I know is much more capable than this.
On July 10 2013 04:15 VayneAuthority wrote:
I cant believe how long this rayn thing has gone on. If I didn't know better its just scum talking to each other and completely shutting down all discussion but that is not the correct answer.
Nowhere (correct me if I'm wrong) did you mention that "rayne does this type of shit as town all the time" during the discussion on his shenanigans, or express your supposed confidence that he was town. Only after he died, you go ahead and say that you knew this all along:
On July 10 2013 07:09 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On July 10 2013 07:08 Xatalos wrote:
Two kills? So scum got a Vigi or something? I dearly hope that one of those wasn't a town kill....
I'm really surprised by rayn though since he was getting a lot of flak tonight. And especially that I live still. Well, it's a relief I guess. He was pretty clearly town after all he did the first day. Since roulette I have become much better at understanding his motives. We just have to decide if these dudes were right with their conspiracy theory or if scum is just trying to throw us off
I dunno, I think that if I thought someone was "pretty clearly town" I'd be more insistent on defending said person, instead of simply saying "hey, let's stop talking about him".
Answer me one thing, just to be clear. You said that you dunno if it's just scum trying to clog up the thread, in the bolded part. Who are you referring to?
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EPT
