|
I've tried to pull out the parts of hzflank's case which are primarily about me.
Aquanim hopes that he can get a few town to agree that the NN should out themselves. Then his scumbuddies can also agree and the NN might claim, giving an advantage to the scum team. Since Hurricane did not get a hard time, Aquanim does not think that he will be lynched for being the first to make the suggestion. Aquanim is fairly sure that when the time comes he can rely on Hurricanes vote for NN to claim, so he really only needs two more town votes, which makes it worth a try.
Has it even crossed your mind that I might think I'm right about the Nosy Neighbour?
The rest of the case on me is primarily related to the nature of my case on Chromatically. Remember that when I made that case it was (by a long way) the first vote of the game - nobody had any significant cases at that time. I took my case more seriously (despite its flimsiness, which I admit) because in my experience a game of Mafia only starts to progress significantly when somebody has put down a vote and is pushing, in some way, for a lynch. The reason why I backed off my case so fast is because I'd previously had only vague feelings that Chromatically was scum, and his replying post felt a lot like aggrieved town to me.
You can come up with convoluted reasons as to why I would ask people about their opinions on my case, or you can accept the simpler and correct explanation that I wanted to draw reactions and make other players express their ideas and thinking about the game, which is a strong tool for finding scum.
|
On June 25 2013 10:44 Chromatically wrote:
I think that Xzavier is actually the one I want to lynch today.
Is there anything in particular that makes you want to lynch Xzavier over Onegu? Their posting to date seems to be of a similar character to me, except that Onegu has been in the thread while interesting things have happened and still hasn't contributed much.
|
On June 25 2013 11:40 Chromatically wrote:
Tofu, you still don't like Spicy?
And Aqua, who's your top read?
Everyone, Xzav?
I'd prefer to see Xzavier's reply before I comment on either of these in detail. I don't see any reason to believe he's town from his posts so far, though.
|
On June 25 2013 12:25 Chromatically wrote:
Nothing else to say, Aqua?
I'm not used to prompting you for reads and opinions. Don't you have any thoughts on the events of today? hz/Spicy/Tofu?
I'm not interested in lynching any of those three today, if that's what you're asking. I can see the thought process of all three and I can easily see all of it coming from a town mindset, even if I don't agree with a lot of it.
My current suspicions lie with Onegu and Xzavier, since they have posted a fair bit but actually said little to nothing of value.
|
On June 25 2013 12:44 Chromatically wrote:
Alright, that's pretty much where I'm going too. But with more Alakaslam and less Onegu.
I have to admit I've been having trouble understanding what Alakaslam has said so far... but I'm having difficulty seeing his thing about "spamming up the thread with bad bbcode -> scum" (link) coming from a scum player. It just feels too... enthusiastic. I get the overall impression that he is trying.
I'd love to see more from him but I'd prefer to lynch Xzavier or Onegu at this point.
(A quick note: LoneMeow did say pregame that he would be on vacation until the 27th, so I'm inclined not to lynch him today.)
|
On June 25 2013 12:50 Xzavier wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 12:36 Aquanim wrote:On June 25 2013 12:25 Chromatically wrote:
Nothing else to say, Aqua?
I'm not used to prompting you for reads and opinions. Don't you have any thoughts on the events of today? hz/Spicy/Tofu? I'm not interested in lynching any of those three today, if that's what you're asking. I can see the thought process of all three and I can easily see all of it coming from a town mindset, even if I don't agree with a lot of it. My current suspicions lie with Onegu and Xzavier, since they have posted a fair bit but actually said little to nothing of value. This post just moved Aqua to my number 1 scum list.
##VOTE Aquanimuhhh. dude, this is your first post in 12 hours, and all you did was a gree with everybody, and say whats already been said. your filter isnt that impressive and you havnt reacted or responded to pressure. you talked alot when it was about the NN meta, which all iv gleaned from is lynch anybody who claims NN at any point in the game. Because it means that they are scum, if they WERE Noisy neighbor, then they would be okay getting lynched, post all of their biggest cases before they died, become confirmed (and dead) town. We re-read his case. If its strong we lynch who he suspects and win. That would be the best way to play noisy neighbor. Claiming NN to stay alive is pretty pointless, you can say it, but it wont keep you alive. So you pretty much were encouraging a useless may as well be spam topic. you havnt actually done anything pro-town, and are using the heat on me and Onegu as a cover in order to not make a splash and still get a mislynch.
Seriously? This is all you have? You want to lynch me over a single post? (Also, even if I was being a hypocrite that is not very scum-indicative.)
And is there something inherently scummy about broadly agreeing with other people's opinions?
I didn't go into depth with my reads because I wanted to see what you and Onegu brought to the table. You hadn't said much before, but I thought that if you were town you might pick up your game now that there is more to talk about. I am not impressed by this 'case' of yours.
Also, I fail to see how making the first real case of the game, putting down the first vote of the game, and seeking reactions to it is not pro-town.
I didn't read the last newbie in detail other than knowing you're not completely incompetent, so I'm not judging you based on however strong your previous towngame was - your play here is just straight-up scummy. This isn't a read based on an understanding of the thread overall, this is a read based on jumping on a post in the last page or so and trying to milk something out of it.
##Vote: Xzavier
|
EBWOP: The last sentence should read
"This scumread of yours isn't based on a understanding of the thread overall..." etc.
|
Him saying the bolded part really bothers me, it is a failsafe for him to later say his gut lead him to make votes without having to make cases behind it
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381931¤tpage=18#344
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386911¤tpage=53#1045
Mate, are you in any way familiar with my meta? If I lead a wagon with serious intent to lynch somebody there WILL be a case.
The other big thing about him is he kept the NN thing going way to long almost half his posts deal with the NN, when it is a bad idea, what if the NN claims day one but scum counterclaims day 4 we still dont know who is who it only give scum an advantage and for him to harp on it over and over is scummy to me.
STILL this?
1) A difference of opinions on policy is not scum-indicative
2) If I knew that the NN claiming was obviously scum-favoured and that I had no chance to make it happen, why would I suggest it as town or scum? It would make me look bad either way.
Your reasons for voting me are all 12 hours old. It seems a very convenient time for you to bring those up now that there are a couple of other votes on me.
On June 25 2013 13:13 Xzavier wrote:
OMGUS more
Still pathetic. Make a real case or eat rope.
|
On June 25 2013 13:36 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 13:28 Aquanim wrote:
Him saying the bolded part really bothers me, it is a failsafe for him to later say his gut lead him to make votes without having to make cases behind it
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381931¤tpage=18#344http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386911¤tpage=53#1045Mate, are you in any way familiar with my meta? If I lead a wagon with serious intent to lynch somebody there WILL be a case.
The other big thing about him is he kept the NN thing going way to long almost half his posts deal with the NN, when it is a bad idea, what if the NN claims day one but scum counterclaims day 4 we still dont know who is who it only give scum an advantage and for him to harp on it over and over is scummy to me.
STILL this? 1) A difference of opinions on policy is not scum-indicative 2) If I knew that the NN claiming was obviously scum-favoured and that I had no chance to make it happen, why would I suggest it as town or scum? It would make me look bad either way. Your reasons for voting me are all 12 hours old. It seems a very convenient time for you to bring those up now that there are a couple of other votes on me. On June 25 2013 13:13 Xzavier wrote:
OMGUS more Still pathetic. Make a real case or eat rope. As I have said meta is useless in a noobie game as people are still figureing out thier playstyle and as I was about to sleep 12 hours ago and I just woke up I dont see how the timeing is wierd...
Meta in newbies is of limited usefulness, particularly for assessing scuminess directly - people's scumgames could change dramatically. However, if someone has demonstrated a capability for making cases/scumhunting/not being utterly useless/etc. there is no reason why that capability should disappear. I won't magically choose to start playing worse just for the sake of changing my playstyle.
I am making the point that I can and will make cases to justify my vote when necessary, which I can prove by citing previous games.
As far as I can tell, I've refuted both of the points which make up your case on me. Is there any reason your vote is still on me? If so, please share it.
|
Sticking your fingers in your ears and yelling *LA LA LA META META CAN'T HEAR YOU* won't cut it.
|
On June 25 2013 14:02 Xzavier wrote:
I suppose im not catching scum fast enough for you? your entire arguement is based off meta lol
lalalalalala meta I FUCKING GET WHAT YOUR SAYING.
But i think what im saying also makes sense.
For the record, my "LA LA LA" thing was directed at Onegu.
|
On June 25 2013 14:07 Xzavier wrote:
Oh okay. i take it back. But do you understand that me not having a case made now doesnt mean i wont make any day2 after i have faaaaaaar more information.
Like I said, I don't really know your meta and it's not relevant to my read. Your play today, in as of itself, may be summed up in three points:
1) some useless talk in the first 12 hours
2) a vote on me with poor justification
3) some unconvincing defence
It's not so much that you haven't made a case as that I see no indication in your filter that you are interested in finding scum. Sure, you've put a vote down, anyone can do that, but besides that? Nothing. No questions, no pressure, no evidence that you are reading deeply into the thread as a whole, nothing.
|
On June 25 2013 14:32 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 13:28 Aquanim wrote:
Him saying the bolded part really bothers me, it is a failsafe for him to later say his gut lead him to make votes without having to make cases behind it
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381931¤tpage=18#344http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386911¤tpage=53#1045Mate, are you in any way familiar with my meta? If I lead a wagon with serious intent to lynch somebody there WILL be a case.
The other big thing about him is he kept the NN thing going way to long almost half his posts deal with the NN, when it is a bad idea, what if the NN claims day one but scum counterclaims day 4 we still dont know who is who it only give scum an advantage and for him to harp on it over and over is scummy to me.
STILL this? 1) A difference of opinions on policy is not scum-indicative 2) If I knew that the NN claiming was obviously scum-favoured and that I had no chance to make it happen, why would I suggest it as town or scum? It would make me look bad either way. Your reasons for voting me are all 12 hours old. It seems a very convenient time for you to bring those up now that there are a couple of other votes on me. On June 25 2013 13:13 Xzavier wrote:
OMGUS more Still pathetic. Make a real case or eat rope. If there will be a case then why post this about your gut?
Because it's true. If I have a gut read, I do seek to substantiate it with a case to convince other people though. I don't expect anyone else to be convinced by my gut.
What about this statement makes you think I couldn't say it as town? (NB. You should be thinking this about any scum read.)
Sure a differance on opinion isnt scum indicative, but you postion on something pro scum and makeing multiple posts on it is. And if you make a case on it and people agree with you because they dont see the reasons could let it happen. You weren't the first person to ask for the reveal so it did have a chance to convince the NN to come forward.
This is ridiculous. You just keep repeating the same thing over and over again. Even if it was a pro-scum position, plenty of people had already said they thought it was a bad idea. I knew when I made that argument that I was arguing against thread sentiment and did it anyway, because I thought (and still think) that that claim would lead to town advantage.
You can't say that someone is scum just because they did some stuff which they MIGHT do as scum. You have to find something which they WOULDN'T do as town.
|
On June 25 2013 14:51 hzflank wrote:In my opinion, Alakaslam has posted the single most scummy sentence in this thread. On the whole I do not think Alakaslam is scummy, but I do think the following post aimed at Onegu should be taken notice of. Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 00:46 Alakaslam wrote:
If it helps, you guide my vote until you look scummy.
Alakaslam, at the time that you posted that, what gave you such a strong town read on Onegu?
If Alakaslam isn't your scumread, who is?
Do you still think I am scum after my replies to the cases against me? In either case, who are your other scumreads?
|
On June 25 2013 15:13 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 14:44 Aquanim wrote:On June 25 2013 14:32 Onegu wrote:On June 25 2013 13:28 Aquanim wrote:
Him saying the bolded part really bothers me, it is a failsafe for him to later say his gut lead him to make votes without having to make cases behind it
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381931¤tpage=18#344http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386911¤tpage=53#1045Mate, are you in any way familiar with my meta? If I lead a wagon with serious intent to lynch somebody there WILL be a case.
The other big thing about him is he kept the NN thing going way to long almost half his posts deal with the NN, when it is a bad idea, what if the NN claims day one but scum counterclaims day 4 we still dont know who is who it only give scum an advantage and for him to harp on it over and over is scummy to me.
STILL this? 1) A difference of opinions on policy is not scum-indicative 2) If I knew that the NN claiming was obviously scum-favoured and that I had no chance to make it happen, why would I suggest it as town or scum? It would make me look bad either way. Your reasons for voting me are all 12 hours old. It seems a very convenient time for you to bring those up now that there are a couple of other votes on me. On June 25 2013 13:13 Xzavier wrote:
OMGUS more Still pathetic. Make a real case or eat rope. If there will be a case then why post this about your gut? Because it's true. If I have a gut read, I do seek to substantiate it with a case to convince other people though. I don't expect anyone else to be convinced by my gut. What about this statement makes you think I couldn't say it as town? (NB. You should be thinking this about any scum read.)
Sure a differance on opinion isnt scum indicative, but you postion on something pro scum and makeing multiple posts on it is. And if you make a case on it and people agree with you because they dont see the reasons could let it happen. You weren't the first person to ask for the reveal so it did have a chance to convince the NN to come forward.
This is ridiculous. You just keep repeating the same thing over and over again. Even if it was a pro-scum position, plenty of people had already said they thought it was a bad idea. I knew when I made that argument that I was arguing against thread sentiment and did it anyway, because I thought (and still think) that that claim would lead to town advantage. You can't say that someone is scum just because they did some stuff which they MIGHT do as scum. You have to find something which they WOULDN'T do as town. Necause you dont have to convince everyone just the NN to reveal. And the hell I cant say someone isnt scum because they do things they might do as scum. When people do scummy things normally they are scum...
I don't think you understand how the NN claim would work. It only works if EVERYBODY agrees on the plan. The reason for this is that if there is no Nosy Neighbour at all, we have to KNOW that if there was one, they would have claimed. If only a few people agree, and then don't claim it, we don't know whether there is a Nosy Neighbour among the people who didn't agree or not, and so we don't accomplish anything.
In response to your second point... if there is a plausible towny explanation for all of somebody's actions, then they are likely town. Things which someone might reasonably do as both town or scum are not scummy, in fact they are not alignment-indicative at all. I have given my reasons, as a town player, for doing all of the things which you've asked me about.
(And to forestall Xzavier jumping on this last part and asking what about his play could only be from scum, it's the total lack of interest in seeking new information and finding scum.)
|
On June 25 2013 15:29 Xzavier wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 15:16 FirmTofu wrote:
Hey Xzavier, what do you think about Spicy? Would you be willing to switch your vote onto him? Honestly not today. he did a really good jpb as town last game and gave some good insights. After going threw his filter it seems like he was forced into a defensive posting pattern due to pressure. he hasnt said much recently. Honestly i wouldnt mind lynching alakazam day 1. But ill giv him a chance to respond. Im really not liking chrom or auqa for their tunnelling me while ignoring logic and basing everything off of the fact that i havnt caught scum yet or made a case.
Oh for... I don't expect you to awesomely catch scum day 1 or to make some super-excellent case. I expect you to be doing SOMETHING conducive to finding scum, and you haven't at all.
|
On June 25 2013 15:37 Xzavier wrote:
But i really dont need to right now lol. I was in the middle of making a case against you when i had to get off the pc. so i posted the little i had. you cant make a case on a phone. sorrym and im not the only one guilty of not pressuring people. hellvim one of the seven who has casted a vote and given a reason why. So why arnt you going after the lurkers who havnt even voted yet by this logic?
- LoneMeow's two posts feel more constructive than the entirety of your filter
- StiMaDDict is a coinflip
- I feel like fyfy, Hurricane Sponge and Alakaslam are at least trying, even if they are not being very effective so far. There could well be scum in this group but I'm not nearly as confident about any one of them as I am about you and Onegu.
Voting in as of itself is not scumhunting. You aren't trying to gain information by voting me and your case is pretty bad, which doesn't really leave any possible towny motivation for your vote.
|
On June 25 2013 15:48 fyfy wrote:
I'm getting the read now that Aquanim is more scum than Xzavier as Aqua seems to be extremely defensive and I maintain my belief that Xzavier just types like a scum. Reading through the discussion, I am under the belief that Aquanim is scum.
##Vote: Aquanim
Can you explain this some more? What exactly about my play do you think is scum-motivated?
|
On June 25 2013 15:58 fyfy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 14:44 Aquanim wrote:On June 25 2013 14:32 Onegu wrote:On June 25 2013 13:28 Aquanim wrote:
Him saying the bolded part really bothers me, it is a failsafe for him to later say his gut lead him to make votes without having to make cases behind it
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381931¤tpage=18#344http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386911¤tpage=53#1045Mate, are you in any way familiar with my meta? If I lead a wagon with serious intent to lynch somebody there WILL be a case.
The other big thing about him is he kept the NN thing going way to long almost half his posts deal with the NN, when it is a bad idea, what if the NN claims day one but scum counterclaims day 4 we still dont know who is who it only give scum an advantage and for him to harp on it over and over is scummy to me.
STILL this? 1) A difference of opinions on policy is not scum-indicative 2) If I knew that the NN claiming was obviously scum-favoured and that I had no chance to make it happen, why would I suggest it as town or scum? It would make me look bad either way. Your reasons for voting me are all 12 hours old. It seems a very convenient time for you to bring those up now that there are a couple of other votes on me. On June 25 2013 13:13 Xzavier wrote:
OMGUS more Still pathetic. Make a real case or eat rope. If there will be a case then why post this about your gut? Because it's true. If I have a gut read, I do seek to substantiate it with a case to convince other people though. I don't expect anyone else to be convinced by my gut. What about this statement makes you think I couldn't say it as town? (NB. You should be thinking this about any scum read.)
Sure a differance on opinion isnt scum indicative, but you postion on something pro scum and makeing multiple posts on it is. And if you make a case on it and people agree with you because they dont see the reasons could let it happen. You weren't the first person to ask for the reveal so it did have a chance to convince the NN to come forward.
This is ridiculous. You just keep repeating the same thing over and over again. Even if it was a pro-scum position, plenty of people had already said they thought it was a bad idea. I knew when I made that argument that I was arguing against thread sentiment and did it anyway, because I thought (and still think) that that claim would lead to town advantage. You can't say that someone is scum just because they did some stuff which they MIGHT do as scum. You have to find something which they WOULDN'T do as town. Something about the way you type is off, I can't really put my finger on to it. I can't really decide whether you're really town or actually scum doing a good job pretending to be town. If anyone could help me clarify how many mafs/SKs are usually in a 12p game I think I would be able to make better decisions.
There's not really much I can say to "you feel a little off". My current thoughts are that I can't believe that four people are voting me on cases this sketchy, and I'm trying to show them why they are wrong, if that helps you understand my mindset at all.
Most games of this approximate size on TL have 13 players: 10 town and 3 mafia. Depending on the power role distribution, a Serial Killer could conceivably replace a townie or a scum (that is, 10T-2M-1SK or 9T-3M-1SK). However, Serial Killers are generally rare, even when they're listed as a possible role.
Given that there is one less player in this game, I would expect either 9 town-3 mafia or 9 town-2 mafia-1SK. 8T-3M-1SK feels a little too difficult for town.
|
On June 25 2013 16:01 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 15:50 Aquanim wrote:On June 25 2013 15:48 fyfy wrote:
I'm getting the read now that Aquanim is more scum than Xzavier as Aqua seems to be extremely defensive and I maintain my belief that Xzavier just types like a scum. Reading through the discussion, I am under the belief that Aquanim is scum.
##Vote: Aquanim Can you explain this some more? What exactly about my play do you think is scum-motivated? Can you please post your case against me as the only thing you have said is I didnt respond when things were going on, well I was going to sleep when HZ posted his case, I responded to the NN thing and have scum hunted and tried to create a useful town atmosphere.
I have no idea what this request has to do with the post you quoted, but whatever...
The first page and a half or so of your filter is just talking about policy, power roles and random fluff without any particular intention of finding scum. This isn't damning in as of itself, early game does tend to be like that, but the entirety of your efforts in the direction of finding scum is an overwhelming tunnel of myself.
As far as I can tell, you haven't looked at anyone else at all, and endlessly tunneling a likely lynch target for the day while repeating the same old arguments (made by other people before you, mostly) over and over is a good way to look active while not actually bringing anything new to the table or having to pretend to do some original scumhunting. You haven't made any significant and new contributions to the thread, which is scum's natural state.
That being said, I think it's possible that you're town and that you think tunneling me like this is accomplishing something, which is why I'm voting Xzavier over you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
