EPTSo that might help us weed out who is wrong for the wrong reasons and who is wrong for the right reasons.
Smurf Mini Mafia - Page 49
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Baker1986
217 Posts
So that might help us weed out who is wrong for the wrong reasons and who is wrong for the right reasons. | ||
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Baker1986
217 Posts
On June 10 2013 23:58 TheDavison wrote: Ohh and Baker. I was prob a bit aggressive there. Its basically LYLO after this NK, so I need to be open to all possibilities. Let me know who you think is final team. Not sure yet, pretty stressed out about this last day. My gut says "ignore whatever you're thinking, go read your own day 1 and lynch people from scummiest up on that day". Which would be eccleston. I really, really don't know. | ||
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TheDavison
157 Posts
On June 11 2013 00:15 Baker1986 wrote: I'll respond to the rest later, but the reason I brought up the "three things I know I can do" thing was not to say I'm bad at everything else, it was to explain why it might prove productive if people try to lynch me tomorrow, because this forces the people trying to lynch me to come up with reasons for the lynch, and I'm stubborn enough to take the heat. So that might help us weed out who is wrong for the wrong reasons and who is wrong for the right reasons. Yeah.. i dunno... im struggling with you. because, your last post felt really genuine to me. And my gut reads on those types of posts have actually been right. I said for a while hartnell was town based on his bluntness. Its my analysis that has been completely wrong. | ||
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SMcCoy
228 Posts
His recent posts about Baker being scummy and about thriving in the spotlight leave much to be desired. It's mostly rhetoric with little of essence. @DrTennant You said that you thrive in the spotlight and it helped you make reads, but you've yet to share them with us. Do you think that all the mafia players are lurking? I'm reposting this cause it's kinda blatant | ||
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TheDavison
157 Posts
On June 11 2013 00:14 SMcCoy wrote: Im not against Eccleston being discussed.+ Show Spoiler + I'm finding quite some points that speak for Eccleston being scum, but that means that his teammate must have bussed him at some point, or still is. Happening after this votecount: + Show Spoiler + On May 30 2013 21:31 Oatsmaster wrote: WHOS THERE? SMcCoy (0): TheDavison (0): DrTennant (3): SMcCoy, Baker1986, MSmith1. Hurndall3 (1): PTroughton2. DrTennant is set to be lynched. Votes without ## will not be counted Eccleston's comeback: + Show Spoiler + On May 30 2013 21:38 Eccleston wrote: Sorry for my absence. Have been busy. Baker, I like your post about DrTennants read being shit, however, I am curious as to why you agree with MSmith1's read on me, because I think what he brings up is trash. Is your thought process similar to Smith's or do you agree with his read but not with his reasoning? Regarding DrTennant: McCoy's case on DrTennant isn't conclusive, but I think there's a fair chance of DrTennant being scum. The inconsistent suspicion toward ambiguous opinions and his defensive reactions could be scum indicators. I feel that point one would be a null tell if it wasn't for his strange justification about not being suspicious of me. It would be understandable if he said something like "Eccleston was asked to provide his opinion, but you were not." or that my post seemed less serious, but his "Yes eccelstone did have what could be interpreted as a wishy washy post but right before that he essential through out a town read for no reason. To me your post was devoid of actual content." sounds more like an after-the-fact justification (and a very bad one at that), especially since he said before that that my aggression was likely more of a town tell than a scum tell. Why didn't he touch on that again if that was what he thought? His recent posts about Baker being scummy and about thriving in the spotlight leave much to be desired. It's mostly rhetoric with little of essence. @DrTennant You said that you thrive in the spotlight and it helped you make reads, but you've yet to share them with us. Do you think that all the mafia players are lurking? What I find curious about Eccleston's post is his question to DrT. He mentions that he had Baker as scumread, but then he asks him if he thinks that all the mafia players are lurking and that he has to share reads. This question might just be show after all. On May 31 2013 03:05 Eccleston wrote: I think lynching PT2 at this time would be unwise. He's made one post and thrown a vote on Hurndall3 for being "brief and blunt", and suddenly, ten hours later, he's a prime suspect? I think you're stretching it when you say that At the time of his post the thread was about three and a half pages long. It doesn't really take much effort to read that and then write a five paragraph RP post and throw a vote on someone. He could just as well be disinterested townie. I could understand it if you were pushing him as a policy lynch because you're not certain about DrT, but how he is "far from null" is beyond me. He has made one (half serious) post in the entire game. Has he been useless? Yes. Does that make him scum? No. On May 31 2013 03:40 Eccleston wrote: On second thought, I do find it quite strange that PT2 even bothered writing his mini case on Hurndall. If he is mafia trying to just skate by without doing anything, why make this stupid post instead of sheeping McCoy? I can think of two reasons: 1. DrT is mafia and PT2 doesn't want to add any more pressure on him. 2. DrT is town and PT2 doesn't want to be held accountable if he is to be lynched. I can't see any pro-town motivation behind his post though... Maybe he doesn't find DrT scummy, but can't be bothered to voice his opinion? Because it's hard to believe that he really is that convinced on Hurndall... The guy had posted about 300 words at that time. For example his backpedaling on the PT defense looks scummy if PT is scum. Eccleston might have been scared of the consequences of his defense for later, and wrote this post to look like he was in doubt about PT. What do you guys think about this This is essentially MSmith1 argument re-raised? This is a tough one as everytime I read Day1, Eccleston sticks out like a sore thumb to me. One thing I noted in my read today was: On May 30 2013 10:08 DrTennant wrote: Of the "active" posters the ones that concern me the most are eccleston and baker. Eccelston despite being active early seems to have just decided to fuck off while i been in the spotlight despite his hig activity early. He hasn't given an opinion on anything that has happened despite showing he was active early on. Baker it appears from my perspective has just decided to sheep who i think is the towniest guy in mccoy and who might have the largest thread control. Baker never gave reasoning he just called mccoy smart and it looks like he is just trying to latch on to an early wagon. What stands out is: With Eccleston, Dr.T just summarises the thread sentiment opinion With Baker, Dr.T creates a new argument to attract attention. Everytime I want to consider Eccleston though, I kept coming back to H3 and the heuristic about the 'Ver Guide". This is then compounded because even though I can not put my finger on it, Im liking the sincerity from Baker. | ||
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Baker1986
217 Posts
On May 30 2013 19:05 Baker1986 wrote: Here's a list. Town heroes: McCoy Baker Townies: Msmith McGann Useless: TheDavison JPertwee Modkill-land: TomB4 HartnellWill Someone who thinks he's funny but he isn't, also his RP is awful PTroughton2 Scummy fuckers: Eccleston Hurndall3 Scum: DrTennant Yeah, should probably just lynch according to this list. | ||
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Baker1986
217 Posts
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SMcCoy
228 Posts
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TheDavison
157 Posts
On June 11 2013 00:33 Baker1986 wrote: Yeah, should probably just lynch according to this list. Hillarious actually. I read this today and at the time.. Eccle + H3 was my team, and I was like WTF! The only thing that made me get off that thought process, was again the "Ver" guide. I think MSmith1 analysis of Eccle is pretty fucking good. Eccle waited a long time before deciding between Trout and Dr.T. That we know Dr.T was a goon, it suggests Eccle was hesitant to bus. - Which is normal. H3 was also always in agreement with Dr.T and voted accordingly. I think the only reason H3 could gain thread presence during Day3, was because all of the town fucked off. Either way, I like where this is going. Good work guys. | ||
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PTroughton2
82 Posts
On June 11 2013 00:34 SMcCoy wrote: I'm working on a vote summary, but either Oats forgot to put some votes in there or PTroughton made mistakes with his own. Quite possible. If you found some errors in my VCA due to my own fault I would like to know so I can do it again with both the correct original information in addition to the newest information. As far as I can remember, I used the final vote count from the official vote count posts so if there's an error it's either by omission or via the source. Please point out any errors you found so I can do it once more, perhaps just for my own information (since my last one was so well received). I've just quickly scanned the last page here; catching up with the action from this weekend. | ||
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TheDavison
157 Posts
PT2 Role Play voting H3, gave H3 a perfect opportunity to create a counter-wagon for Dr.T. H3 has also consistently maintained Eccle as a town read (except once, where he votes him citing "survival'). H3 was constantly trying to derail the Dr.T lynch by three different methods. (1) Blatantly support Counter-Wagon (Trout) + Show Spoiler + On May 31 2013 00:06 Hurndall3 wrote: the bandwagon of justice rolling through.. it is so beautiful ##vote ptroughton On June 07 2013 00:42 TheDavison wrote: H3 The candidates for this lynch are: TomB4, Eccleston and Hurndall3. You need to step up; because that vote on PT earlier was a load of bullocks. Are you going to vote Tom or not. On June 07 2013 01:37 Hurndall3 wrote: I dont like any of those lynches though! Haven't looked into Tom real close but his activity looks pretty town just from glancing at it. Why not PT ;_; (2) Denigrate the SMcCoy case (Keeps asking for it to be simpler) + Show Spoiler + On May 30 2013 12:58 Hurndall3 wrote: also I still want someone to explain SIMPLY the case on DrTennant that everyone is sheeping. On May 30 2013 06:54 Hurndall3 wrote: um ok SMcCoy I tried to read your last post several times. Maybe my attention span is bad but half way through (between megacases 1 and 2) I kept getting so bored that I lot my concentration and had to start over. I still have no idea what you are trying to say but the gist I got was it was COMPLETELY INCONCLUSIVE lol. It's all analysis and no insight. On May 30 2013 09:42 Hurndall3 wrote: can smcc's analysis be summarized for simpletons such as myself or can the complexity of the argument not be condensed? (3) Rebuts points on behalf of Dr.T + Show Spoiler + On May 30 2013 14:15 Hurndall3 wrote: 1 "uscumbro?" is null possibly leaning town. I know you don't like it because of how it effectively accomplishes nothing, but town does it all the time. 2 people are searching for something to talk about early game. This is true of both town and scum. DrTennant is not a scumread and I think there are already a bunch of better lynch candidates out there: Eccleston PTroughton2 JPertwee Actually rereading all those filters I am gonna unvote TheDavison. His response to my OMGUS looks marginally genuine: ##unvote JPertwee might be a too scummy to be scum scenario. He is overly agreeable, wishy washy, and constantly asking people to expand on things they've said rather than contribute his own original thought. Then there is the over compensated vote on Dr.T where he backpedals on "overdefense" On May 31 2013 11:20 Hurndall3 wrote: ##unvote ##vote DrT k I think I can sheep this DrT shit now that I read the case thoroughly. these are the points that convinced me to sheep. 1 DrT's overdefense 2 unnatural calmness 3 repeated appeal that scum is among the inactives 4 one dimensional scumreads This guy and Eccleston has to go. | ||
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SMcCoy
228 Posts
How are they compatible. | ||
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TheDavison
157 Posts
On June 11 2013 01:05 SMcCoy wrote: But H3 mentioned Eccleston as suspect after defending DrT. How are they compatible. Distancing. I just read Hurndall 7 page filter. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=413713&user=Hurndall3 Early game Eccle is a scummer. Then midgame Eccle instantly becomes a mislynchf or him. Endgame he is constantly hard fending Eccleston as a strong town read. The below is every post in H3 filter that has the word "Ecc" in it. + Show Spoiler [H3 on Ecc] + On May 30 2013 14:15 Hurndall3 wrote: Lists Eccleston as a lynch candidate (a s per thread sentiment).1 "uscumbro?" is null possibly leaning town. I know you don't like it because of how it effectively accomplishes nothing, but town does it all the time. 2 people are searching for something to talk about early game. This is true of both town and scum. DrTennant is not a scumread and I think there are already a bunch of better lynch candidates out there: Eccleston PTroughton2 JPertwee Actually rereading all those filters I am gonna unvote TheDavison. His response to my OMGUS looks marginally genuine: ##unvote JPertwee might be a too scummy to be scum scenario. He is overly agreeable, wishy washy, and constantly asking people to expand on things they've said rather than contribute his own original thought. On June 03 2013 07:53 Hurndall3 wrote: ya ecc or td id lynch either of those On June 04 2013 21:23 A McGann wrote: Who do you want to lynch tomorrow and at least give a paragraph outlining why. On June 04 2013 21:32 Hurndall3 wrote: This is gonna take some time that I don't have right now. I have to read the filters of TD, Ecc, HW, pf?(I may be forgetting someone else I found scummy) first. I will do this for d3 though. On June 07 2013 00:42 TheDavison wrote: H3 The candidates for this lynch are: TomB4, Eccleston and Hurndall3. You need to step up; because that vote on PT earlier was a load of bullocks. Are you going to vote Tom or not. On June 07 2013 01:37 Hurndall3 wrote: Literally he goes from considering him scum, to not being willing to vote him in this post!I dont like any of those lynches though! Haven't looked into Tom real close but his activity looks pretty town just from glancing at it. Why not PT ;_; On June 07 2013 04:30 Hurndall3 wrote: other scumread is HW. there is a very scummy connection between the two. Neither ever tries to figure out if the other is scum. They both push Ecc, TD mislynches. On June 07 2013 05:44 Hurndall3 wrote: k i have to go so this is a survival vote ##vote ecc On June 07 2013 06:08 Hurndall3 wrote: i agree ecc is a mislynch but wtf do you want me to do On June 07 2013 11:27 HartnellWill wrote: Now can we pls pls pls pls pls lynch eccleston day 4? On June 07 2013 12:23 Hurndall3 wrote: no! On June 08 2013 08:29 Hurndall3 wrote: Now he is starting to hard defend Eccleston.k I've been reading and rereading eccs filter and I think he's town. his early game record looks really scummy (shown by msmiths analysis.). In fact it looks so bad that scum would probably be more careful about how they were treating DrT, since all the powertowns were on drts wagon and it was pretty obvious he was going to be lynched. this is a tooscummytobescum argument but that doesn't mean its wrong. secondly there is this quote: I really can't imagine writing this as scum. And I don't mean the thought is particularly pro town. It's just that scum doesn't have thoughts like this. On June 08 2013 09:44 Hurndall3 wrote: @smcc look at my most recent post on ecc There are things he says that look VERY town, even if his play isn't very pro-town. MSmith's vote analysis makes Ecc look very bad, but there's one problem with MSmith's argument: It assumes that PT is town. If PT is scum along with DrT, then suddenly his entire analysis is irrelevant. On June 08 2013 09:56 Hurndall3 wrote: If Ecc is town, and TomB4 is town, then why would mafia give a fuck what wagon they were on yesterday? On June 08 2013 10:22 Hurndall3 wrote: TD I am not done reading filters but I'm really sure Ecc is *EBWOP NOT* scum. Please keep an open mind to my upcoming posts. Also realize this: a town Ecc was demotivated as fuck and very disconnected from the game. So disconnected that he didn't realize Smcc is obv town like we do. I think it was simply a case of activity without intellect behind it. On June 08 2013 11:10 Hurndall3 wrote: yup mcgann died because he thought Ecc is town. Ecc IS TOWN. Do you think it's a coincidence that PT and HW (both scummy fucks) are now pushing him uber hard in tandem? On June 08 2013 11:52 Hurndall3 wrote: ECC's townstory is consistent and believable. He did not read the game carefully enough to comprehend SmCC's towncred. Can't you see how someone saying "bad town is pissing me off I want them to die" can be construed as scummy? Because it looks like he wants to lynch people for being bad instead of being scum. Here is a question: Why would scum push SMcCoy at that time? Really there is no reason. there were plenty of other scummy townies (myself included) that would be better choices. On June 09 2013 01:48 Hurndall3 wrote: Here he defends Eccleston by taking arguments out of context (a constant theme of H3 throughout this game)TD you are tunneled on Ecc right now. It happens to all of us. You need to step back and realize that your case against Ecc isn't good. The logic is not conclusive. Let's look at exhibit B: I would characterize his response as quite aggressive actually. it doesn't look like how scum would talk to each other. @td you are suffering from confirmation bias pure and simple. You are looking at all these little things that don't cohere into a bigger picture. You are seeing signs where there aren't any. On June 09 2013 02:08 Hurndall3 wrote: Dude I'm sorry if I'm sounding condescending but it's just I think all your arguments for Ecc are bad. I've been there dude. Dat tunnel. Dat confirmation bias. 1 Why am I defending Ecc so hard.. well because you are going at him so hard. I am quite sure you are town and I want you on my side. Also Ecc seems like a newer player and he isn't trying or maybe isn't capable of defending himself. Also my townread on ECC is extremely strong. 2 Early game aggression is leaning town MAYBE for some people but I would be more comfortable saying it's alignment neutral. It's somewhat harder for scum because they have to find something that they can misconstrue as scummy. On June 09 2013 02:13 Hurndall3 wrote: i do like your point about hw/pt scumteam or ecc/me scumteam though. Ask yourself, do I really seem scummy? Also ask yourself, is it possible ecc is just newish town? On June 09 2013 02:19 Hurndall3 wrote: Sorry for the quadruple post. This is another one in response to TD. i mean Ecc read the Ver guide on how to play town for fuck sakes. I'm really sorry if im being disrespectful to you. it's just that I feel very strongly about the wrongness of your arguments. I have been refuting point by point. I have been saying WHY I think they are not conclusive. Please, I welcome you to present your most damming arguments, and I will say why I disagree one by one. As far as I'm concerned, the Ecc comments are dont have conviction behind them for pushing a lynch. | ||
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TheDavison
157 Posts
On June 11 2013 01:05 SMcCoy wrote: But H3 mentioned Eccleston as suspect after defending DrT. How are they compatible. To address your actual question. Regarding the post in question ("uscumbro") H3 defends Dr.T and then lists 3 scum reads, including Eccleston with no expansion of thought. This is simply distancing, as H3 did not seriously (or casually) push Eccleston as a lynch candidate at any point in the game. The simplest solution is that Eccleston was listed as the majority of the thread were suspicious of him. This allowed H3 to blend in, and cast suspicion on others. In the end he pushes JP, and leaves the door open for an OMGUS on Trout. There is certainly compatibility available. Just remember, that H3 lifted his activity once I built cases on both H3 + Eccleston. I treated H3 as town for two reasons. (1) He was one of the only people posting, and with so many lurkers, I felt scum had no reason to contribute (2) You kept calling H3 town, which made me doubt my case (as I was outnumbered on feedback 2 to 1) | ||
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TheDavison
157 Posts
H3 dismissed them all calling them "trash logic".... just like he did with Dr.T. + Show Spoiler [H3] + On June 04 2013 16:35 TheDavison wrote: *snip* + Show Spoiler [In Action] + If we examine the final votes for both Days. On June 01 2013 11:30 Oatsmaster wrote: Day 1 SMcCoy (0): TheDavison (0): DrTennant (8): SMcCoy, Baker1986, MSmith1, HartnellWil, A McGann, Eccleston, Hurndall3, TomB4 Hurndall3 (1): PTroughton2, PTroughton2 (2): TomB4 (1): TheDavison On June 04 2013 10:52 Oatsmaster wrote: Day2 jpertwee (7): baker1986, smccoy, msmith1, tomb4, a mcgann, thedavison (1): eccleston (2): hartnellwill, jpertwee hartnellwill (0): tomb4 (1): Someone who stands out to me as a contender to satisfy that dichotomy is: Hurndall3. On Day1, VCA indicates he has thrown his vote around randomly seeing where it sticks. In fact the vote justifications below are sycophantic at best and outright scummy at worst. Pay particular attention to the over compensation with his Dr.T sheep vote//bus. + Show Spoiler [H3 justifications] + On May 29 2013 23:01 Hurndall3 wrote: yup mccoys post is scummy as fuck. until he makes himself seem more town: ##vote smccoy On May 30 2013 03:17 Hurndall3 wrote: ok ##vote thedavison pretty self explanatory imo. This is his first post! On May 31 2013 00:06 Hurndall3 wrote: the bandwagon of justice rolling through.. it is so beautiful ##vote ptroughton On May 31 2013 11:20 Hurndall3 wrote: ##unvote ##vote DrT k I think I can sheep this DrT shit now that I read the case thoroughly. these are the points that convinced me to sheep. 1 DrT's overdefense 2 unnatural calmness 3 repeated appeal that scum is among the inactives 4 one dimensional scumreads On June 03 2013 05:09 Hurndall3 wrote: ##vote td jp is looking town from that last post. going with the alternate wagon. Besides I thought td looked scummy from his first post. On June 04 2013 11:10 Hurndall3 wrote: fuck I guess my vote is really outdated. ##unvote ##vote JP NOT THAT IT MATTERS Compare this to "TomB4" who was in the final two to seal Dr.T fate. On June 01 2013 07:36 TomB4 wrote: I'd rather feel dumb than correct, since I am the minority in this case. It's better for us if I'm wrong. ##unvote ##vote DrTennant There is a stark contrast in confidence in the sheep vote. H3; who never explained any of his D1 votes in gross detail, suddenly feels the need to provide a summary account when it comes to Dr.T. His Day1 performance sequence is repeated in full force on Day2, when he votes for Davison citing "JP looks town", before seizing an opportunity and rescinding back to JP - with no explanation. If i haphazard a guess, I would say with confidence: His actions with JP are a scum slip. (i.e. jumped into the thread without reading, and realised the error in judgement and recanted) Let me repeat it for you: On June 03 2013 05:09 Hurndall3 wrote: ##vote td jp is looking town from that last post. going with the alternate wagon. Besides I thought td looked scummy from his first post. On June 04 2013 11:10 Hurndall3 wrote: fuck I guess my vote is really outdated. ##unvote ##vote JP NOT THAT IT MATTERS Please remember thread sentiment: barely anyone thought JP was town; or even if they had a "gut feeling". JP filter did NOT do not much to help them present a counter case. However, H3 suddenly knows it all. It doesnt matter that 1 day elapsed between the H3 backpedal. He backed the horse (JP) when no one else did (I would bet due to knowledge we dont have)... and when the opportunity came he took it and provided ZERO justification. Just like all his other votes except Dr.T. SMcCoy has already touched on some odd interactions with H3 and other(s) in the thread. + Show Spoiler [The Outcome] + Guys, I am suggesting that regardless of who dies this cycle: please push forward and secure the lynch of H3. (1) His voting of Dr.T is suspect (2) His voting of JP is suspect (3) His behaviour fits the pattern of scum who has blended into the "not a current thread" zone, thus satisfies the requirements of enabling the "withhold KP" ability. (4) Has suspect behaviour with other participants. Please discuss this. I think this person I speak of in "The Outcome" satisifies all the criteria I have been looking for. i.e. Over Compensated votes on scum. Low details when voting town. & satisfies my "withhold kp" musings in the spoilers above. Let me know your thoughts. If you think I am wrong. Point it out! Construction discussion can only help lead us in the right direction! + Show Spoiler [Ecc1] + On June 08 2013 10:18 TheDavison wrote: Actually. i beg to differ, but will present something different. I am cleaning the house currently, and was thinking about the game and was musing in my head: why would Eccleston try and get a SMcCoy lynch? Anyone who read the game will know SMcCoy is town for two highly specific reasons from Day1. (1) The back and forth with Dr.T is genuine and could not be faked. They were playing cat n mouse, and SMcCoy won. and more importantly (2) MSmith1, (who is confirmed town) kept saying he completely agreed with the points SMcCoy was raising. i.e. MSmcCoy is thinking EXAXTLY like a well-reasoned townie should. Regardless of lowering presence since Night 1, SMcCoy is town. Eccleston 2.0 said he read the game, this should be abundantly clear. Yet when SMcCoy has a badly-timed vent; who tries to pounce on the opportunity? Eccleston 2.0 who has done nothing since coming in. This can only come from scum agenda. I actually believe Eccleston when he said he was demotived.. he came into a game and was a lynch candidate for things he didnt do. However, contrast this with my behaviour. I came into the game as a lynch candidate, and knowing I am town, I had the confidence to immediately rebut the cases put forth against me. Eccleston on the other hand, is demotivated as the points are valid. I start sticking up for him, and suddenly he has the confidence to push scum agenda (i.e. lynch SMcCoy). Yet did not rebut any of the cases against him as promised. This is pretty damn scummy. So in short, I could not reconcile why a townie would try and push for a SMcCoy lynch. Just cos the guy had a badly timed vent, does not make him scum. I think this action was a scum slip from Eccleston. I also coultn reconcile his "demotivated" post. Because it was written in a way that was very hard to weird (i.e. the paragraphs was all in one block). I think this was a specific tactic by Eccleston to hide behind. I dont think he lied about being demotivated (because replacing in, when votes are cast on you is demotivating for both town and scum). Come Day4, I am voting for Eccleston. Will figure out last scum after Eccleston is eliminated. + Show Spoiler [Ecc2] + On June 08 2013 16:52 TheDavison wrote: Started doing my re-read. From the first page I already know who to vote for. + Show Spoiler + ##Vote: Eccleston Ecclestons scummy openers have been done to death but I will outline my issues anyway. This is just so damn aggressive, especially for a first post. I have been assuming that he acted like this because MSmith1 RNG'd him as scum. But when I think about it, as town you are confident.. you know you can prove yourself town. Therefore when name calling like that happens, you just brush it off. The only reason I think a townie would write that post, is if they are trying to alpha-male the town leadership. However, clearly Eccleston never aspired that far. Outcome: Leaning Scum Another weird response. Since when is discussing lynching policies conducive to scum hunting? Everyone that plays mafia beyond the newbies, understands that policy discussion is what scum *LOVE* to keep town focused on. They are guilt-free lynches, and you dont have to create fake cases. I don't think this post by itself is scummy; but it is very weird. Because he raises issues, but doesn't provide solutions. He could have easily said "lynching policy.. .how about this" (which A.McGann actually asks in the next post) Outcome: Very slightly leaning scum Trivial Point, but he was aware of KP delay function instantly. Now, some people read the OP, others dont (including me). So i won't call him scum for knowing the scum specifics of play. But, if he is town and knows this.. why not create discussion around it? Especially because he called out others for not being constructive. Instead, he makes a blunt comment I dont understand.. "it will not affect lynching until end game".. and then tries to segue this into a useless a comment about A.McGann which says nothing AND MSmith1 where he avoids calling him town or scum (uses the words. villager/italian). Note, he was actually asked to share his thoughts on alignment. "Friendly" is not indicative of town or scum... Outcome: Null on its own, Very slightly leaning scum with the other points. Now, heres the pearler. And somehow, I dont understand how we all missed it. (Apologies if someone has raised it, I genuinely dont recall) Now: We all know Dr.T got lynched for this post. i.e. "Why so wishy washy? You scum?" We also know Dr.T was scum... so the question I asked myself was. Consider: early game, the objectives of scum are the same as town. (1) Establish your innocence (2) Blend in OR Assume town leadership It is ONLY after this phase that you start looking for "bad town" to setup as "scum". In his first post, Dr.T forgoes establishing innocence and throws out the artillery straight away. Not only aggressively attacking SMcCoy, but labelling him the "S" word (uscumbro). This is a big deal; as the post was not conducive to establishing the innocence of Dr.T, nor did it allow him to blend in. Secondly, the post was laced with too much aggression to try and establish a town leadership position. The key to Dr.Ts motives SMcCoy was confessing his confusion with Eccleston. i.e. He doesnt expect scum to be in the limelight early Day1.. yet everything Eccleston is doing doesnt add up as town. Its actually not wishy-washy at all. The reason Dr.T made an aggressive attack on SMcCoy as his first post To fling shit at SMcCoy and lower his credibility because he was suspicious of Eccleston. Its that simple. He was protecting a scum buddy. And decided to forgo establishing his innocence, which led to his demise. ##Vote: Eccleston + Show Spoiler [Ecc3] + On June 08 2013 19:52 TheDavison wrote: Disagree. As follows: + Show Spoiler [Motive] + Early game aggression may *NOT* alignment indicative during early game. However, as people are removed from the game, and alignments elucidated; early game aggression *does* become alignment indicative. Because you can start to figure out motive. As I pointed out in my case: scum have a typical modus operandi when the game starts. Blend in via establishing towniness, and then allow the bad townies to get lynched. This is the safe play that almost every game of mafia follows. Occasionally scum will try to assert themselves for town leaderships, which still requires them to establish towniess regardless. + Show Spoiler [Dr.T "Dirty Hands"] + Now Hurndall3, if what you say is true and Dr.T found "town wishy-washiness" with SMcCoy I am confident he would not have tried to ostracize SMcCoy so vehemently. Scum want to suggest "bad points" so others pick up the torch and do the pushing. i.e. Scum don't want to get their hands dirty and become accountable in any game of mafia But this did not happen.What we found this game is that Dr.T not only got his hands dirty, but he also became immediately defensive. We all know how this panned out: he was lynched. Because its so important, I shall repeat it one more time. He could merely have pointed out an observation - which satisfies scum objectives so much more efficiently. It sows doubt, establishes that he cares -> towniness, and keeps his hands clean. A perfect trifecta. H3, even you noted Eccleston early game play as follows: I think Dr.T noticed this as well, and felt the need to provide "cover fire" for Eccleston, hence the breakaway from scum safe play. This actually then becomes a very good reason for why he became immediately defensive. (In his mind, its like.. WTF!! i just tried to divert attention from you, and now I am the prime suspect...) Hurndall3, what I want to know are two simple things. (1) Why do you feel compelled to answer on behalf of Eccleston constantly? Your last 2 pages of filter are regurgitating "Eccle is town", and not producing cases for scum. (2) Why is early game aggression indicative of "leaning town". | ||
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PTroughton2
82 Posts
On June 09 2013 11:54 TheDavison wrote: PT2000, still waiting for this one. I thought for sure we were going to lynch Eccleston and that discussing my HW read could wait until today, but the foundations of it should be in my filter. Do you still need me to fully qualify this even after the lynch? On June 09 2013 13:42 TheDavison wrote: Yeah im left pretty unimpressed with the post. I also re-read PT2000 VCA post, and was also left hanging. I will take another crack at this and hopefully make more sense of things once it is clear where my error or errors was or were made as brought up by Baker since he has expressed concern over the data. On June 10 2013 08:29 Eccleston wrote: maybe.. maybe you say "eccleston claimes scum" and lynch me here for "scumclaim" because I voted mccoy, because its so late in the day to start... but lets hear for a moment... what would an active scum look like in this town, the scum who drives the lynch, so many mislynches? think about it... what would that kettle look like, it would be black, it would look like mccoy.. he is not "confirmed" town, you must have seen busses before like this... and you cant' see, but we can afford a mislynch today... if you lynch me, that is okay, but read my final posts, it tells: smccoy, he is not what you think it is. Why would he act like this... it is not genuine, it is not real... a real town player would be so happy after no kill night 1... a real town player would not push an anti town "Activity"... you say he is ina high horse, but it is not a high horse, it is a dark horse... ppl say "all activity is good activity"... but they are wrong. thinnk about how the atmosphere has degraded, and who has done the degrading... why would mccoy just say... "what is your alignment" instead of a real question? his goal isn't answers to questions... his goal is to "feel" like a townie, too be loud in a quiet game... and he is the only voice, so we think he is the town voice... but its wrong The first is an interesting point; if all the people who are inactive are town, then scum are leading the town. I can't wrap my head around the idea of a McCoy or Davison as scum because of just how strong they have been at various periods of the game, McCoy early and Davison the Second more recently. Do you honestly not understand what possible motivation he could have had for asking you that question in the second bolded part? McCoy was reaction fishing you with that, and you've construed that as a scummy action where I can't, especially at the point in the game where you replaced in and that occurred, see it being anything other than an attempt at getting an honest reaction out of you by asking an honest question to get a preliminary read. Much like a day one read is made at the start of the game. Your response was sort of silly, and your cluelessness about the game state on top of your honest reactions to things is making me question my read of you (which was based more upon your predecessor's actions than your own). You assert that there is scum among the prolific posters and you choose McCoy because... that's not really abundantly clear and I may be overlooking it, could you please explain why McCoy over anyone else? Because when you say "who is driving so many mislynches" you are omitting the fact that McCoy was a major, if not the biggest, proponent in getting his teammate lynched day one if he is scum. That was a lot of effort to put his team at a significant disadvantage day one. On June 11 2013 01:57 TheDavison wrote: SMcCoy if still unconvinced on H3 I repeat my old cases on H3/Ecc. H3 dismissed them all calling them "trash logic".... just like he did with Dr.T. + Show Spoiler [H3] + On June 04 2013 16:35 TheDavison wrote: *snip* + Show Spoiler [In Action] + If we examine the final votes for both Days. On June 01 2013 11:30 Oatsmaster wrote: Day 1 SMcCoy (0): TheDavison (0): DrTennant (8): SMcCoy, Baker1986, MSmith1, HartnellWil, A McGann, Eccleston, Hurndall3, TomB4 Hurndall3 (1): PTroughton2, PTroughton2 (2): TomB4 (1): TheDavison On June 04 2013 10:52 Oatsmaster wrote: Day2 jpertwee (7): baker1986, smccoy, msmith1, tomb4, a mcgann, thedavison (1): eccleston (2): hartnellwill, jpertwee hartnellwill (0): tomb4 (1): Someone who stands out to me as a contender to satisfy that dichotomy is: Hurndall3. On Day1, VCA indicates he has thrown his vote around randomly seeing where it sticks. In fact the vote justifications below are sycophantic at best and outright scummy at worst. Pay particular attention to the over compensation with his Dr.T sheep vote//bus. + Show Spoiler [H3 justifications] + On May 29 2013 23:01 Hurndall3 wrote: yup mccoys post is scummy as fuck. until he makes himself seem more town: ##vote smccoy On May 30 2013 03:17 Hurndall3 wrote: ok ##vote thedavison pretty self explanatory imo. This is his first post! On May 31 2013 00:06 Hurndall3 wrote: the bandwagon of justice rolling through.. it is so beautiful ##vote ptroughton On May 31 2013 11:20 Hurndall3 wrote: ##unvote ##vote DrT k I think I can sheep this DrT shit now that I read the case thoroughly. these are the points that convinced me to sheep. 1 DrT's overdefense 2 unnatural calmness 3 repeated appeal that scum is among the inactives 4 one dimensional scumreads On June 03 2013 05:09 Hurndall3 wrote: ##vote td jp is looking town from that last post. going with the alternate wagon. Besides I thought td looked scummy from his first post. On June 04 2013 11:10 Hurndall3 wrote: fuck I guess my vote is really outdated. ##unvote ##vote JP NOT THAT IT MATTERS Compare this to "TomB4" who was in the final two to seal Dr.T fate. On June 01 2013 07:36 TomB4 wrote: I'd rather feel dumb than correct, since I am the minority in this case. It's better for us if I'm wrong. ##unvote ##vote DrTennant There is a stark contrast in confidence in the sheep vote. H3; who never explained any of his D1 votes in gross detail, suddenly feels the need to provide a summary account when it comes to Dr.T. His Day1 performance sequence is repeated in full force on Day2, when he votes for Davison citing "JP looks town", before seizing an opportunity and rescinding back to JP - with no explanation. If i haphazard a guess, I would say with confidence: His actions with JP are a scum slip. (i.e. jumped into the thread without reading, and realised the error in judgement and recanted) Let me repeat it for you: On June 03 2013 05:09 Hurndall3 wrote: ##vote td jp is looking town from that last post. going with the alternate wagon. Besides I thought td looked scummy from his first post. On June 04 2013 11:10 Hurndall3 wrote: fuck I guess my vote is really outdated. ##unvote ##vote JP NOT THAT IT MATTERS Please remember thread sentiment: barely anyone thought JP was town; or even if they had a "gut feeling". JP filter did NOT do not much to help them present a counter case. However, H3 suddenly knows it all. It doesnt matter that 1 day elapsed between the H3 backpedal. He backed the horse (JP) when no one else did (I would bet due to knowledge we dont have)... and when the opportunity came he took it and provided ZERO justification. Just like all his other votes except Dr.T. SMcCoy has already touched on some odd interactions with H3 and other(s) in the thread. + Show Spoiler [The Outcome] + Guys, I am suggesting that regardless of who dies this cycle: please push forward and secure the lynch of H3. (1) His voting of Dr.T is suspect (2) His voting of JP is suspect (3) His behaviour fits the pattern of scum who has blended into the "not a current thread" zone, thus satisfies the requirements of enabling the "withhold KP" ability. (4) Has suspect behaviour with other participants. Please discuss this. I think this person I speak of in "The Outcome" satisifies all the criteria I have been looking for. i.e. Over Compensated votes on scum. Low details when voting town. & satisfies my "withhold kp" musings in the spoilers above. Let me know your thoughts. If you think I am wrong. Point it out! Construction discussion can only help lead us in the right direction! + Show Spoiler [Ecc1] + On June 08 2013 10:18 TheDavison wrote: Actually. i beg to differ, but will present something different. I am cleaning the house currently, and was thinking about the game and was musing in my head: why would Eccleston try and get a SMcCoy lynch? Anyone who read the game will know SMcCoy is town for two highly specific reasons from Day1. (1) The back and forth with Dr.T is genuine and could not be faked. They were playing cat n mouse, and SMcCoy won. and more importantly (2) MSmith1, (who is confirmed town) kept saying he completely agreed with the points SMcCoy was raising. i.e. MSmcCoy is thinking EXAXTLY like a well-reasoned townie should. Regardless of lowering presence since Night 1, SMcCoy is town. Eccleston 2.0 said he read the game, this should be abundantly clear. Yet when SMcCoy has a badly-timed vent; who tries to pounce on the opportunity? Eccleston 2.0 who has done nothing since coming in. This can only come from scum agenda. I actually believe Eccleston when he said he was demotived.. he came into a game and was a lynch candidate for things he didnt do. However, contrast this with my behaviour. I came into the game as a lynch candidate, and knowing I am town, I had the confidence to immediately rebut the cases put forth against me. Eccleston on the other hand, is demotivated as the points are valid. I start sticking up for him, and suddenly he has the confidence to push scum agenda (i.e. lynch SMcCoy). Yet did not rebut any of the cases against him as promised. This is pretty damn scummy. So in short, I could not reconcile why a townie would try and push for a SMcCoy lynch. Just cos the guy had a badly timed vent, does not make him scum. I think this action was a scum slip from Eccleston. I also coultn reconcile his "demotivated" post. Because it was written in a way that was very hard to weird (i.e. the paragraphs was all in one block). I think this was a specific tactic by Eccleston to hide behind. I dont think he lied about being demotivated (because replacing in, when votes are cast on you is demotivating for both town and scum). Come Day4, I am voting for Eccleston. Will figure out last scum after Eccleston is eliminated. + Show Spoiler [Ecc2] + On June 08 2013 16:52 TheDavison wrote: Started doing my re-read. From the first page I already know who to vote for. + Show Spoiler + ##Vote: Eccleston Ecclestons scummy openers have been done to death but I will outline my issues anyway. This is just so damn aggressive, especially for a first post. I have been assuming that he acted like this because MSmith1 RNG'd him as scum. But when I think about it, as town you are confident.. you know you can prove yourself town. Therefore when name calling like that happens, you just brush it off. The only reason I think a townie would write that post, is if they are trying to alpha-male the town leadership. However, clearly Eccleston never aspired that far. Outcome: Leaning Scum Another weird response. Since when is discussing lynching policies conducive to scum hunting? Everyone that plays mafia beyond the newbies, understands that policy discussion is what scum *LOVE* to keep town focused on. They are guilt-free lynches, and you dont have to create fake cases. I don't think this post by itself is scummy; but it is very weird. Because he raises issues, but doesn't provide solutions. He could have easily said "lynching policy.. .how about this" (which A.McGann actually asks in the next post) Outcome: Very slightly leaning scum Trivial Point, but he was aware of KP delay function instantly. Now, some people read the OP, others dont (including me). So i won't call him scum for knowing the scum specifics of play. But, if he is town and knows this.. why not create discussion around it? Especially because he called out others for not being constructive. Instead, he makes a blunt comment I dont understand.. "it will not affect lynching until end game".. and then tries to segue this into a useless a comment about A.McGann which says nothing AND MSmith1 where he avoids calling him town or scum (uses the words. villager/italian). Note, he was actually asked to share his thoughts on alignment. "Friendly" is not indicative of town or scum... Outcome: Null on its own, Very slightly leaning scum with the other points. Now, heres the pearler. And somehow, I dont understand how we all missed it. (Apologies if someone has raised it, I genuinely dont recall) Now: We all know Dr.T got lynched for this post. i.e. "Why so wishy washy? You scum?" We also know Dr.T was scum... so the question I asked myself was. Consider: early game, the objectives of scum are the same as town. (1) Establish your innocence (2) Blend in OR Assume town leadership It is ONLY after this phase that you start looking for "bad town" to setup as "scum". In his first post, Dr.T forgoes establishing innocence and throws out the artillery straight away. Not only aggressively attacking SMcCoy, but labelling him the "S" word (uscumbro). This is a big deal; as the post was not conducive to establishing the innocence of Dr.T, nor did it allow him to blend in. Secondly, the post was laced with too much aggression to try and establish a town leadership position. The key to Dr.Ts motives SMcCoy was confessing his confusion with Eccleston. i.e. He doesnt expect scum to be in the limelight early Day1.. yet everything Eccleston is doing doesnt add up as town. Its actually not wishy-washy at all. The reason Dr.T made an aggressive attack on SMcCoy as his first post To fling shit at SMcCoy and lower his credibility because he was suspicious of Eccleston. Its that simple. He was protecting a scum buddy. And decided to forgo establishing his innocence, which led to his demise. ##Vote: Eccleston + Show Spoiler [Ecc3] + On June 08 2013 19:52 TheDavison wrote: Disagree. As follows: + Show Spoiler [Motive] + Early game aggression may *NOT* alignment indicative during early game. However, as people are removed from the game, and alignments elucidated; early game aggression *does* become alignment indicative. Because you can start to figure out motive. As I pointed out in my case: scum have a typical modus operandi when the game starts. Blend in via establishing towniness, and then allow the bad townies to get lynched. This is the safe play that almost every game of mafia follows. Occasionally scum will try to assert themselves for town leaderships, which still requires them to establish towniess regardless. + Show Spoiler [Dr.T "Dirty Hands"] + Now Hurndall3, if what you say is true and Dr.T found "town wishy-washiness" with SMcCoy I am confident he would not have tried to ostracize SMcCoy so vehemently. Scum want to suggest "bad points" so others pick up the torch and do the pushing. i.e. Scum don't want to get their hands dirty and become accountable in any game of mafia But this did not happen.What we found this game is that Dr.T not only got his hands dirty, but he also became immediately defensive. We all know how this panned out: he was lynched. Because its so important, I shall repeat it one more time. He could merely have pointed out an observation - which satisfies scum objectives so much more efficiently. It sows doubt, establishes that he cares -> towniness, and keeps his hands clean. A perfect trifecta. H3, even you noted Eccleston early game play as follows: I think Dr.T noticed this as well, and felt the need to provide "cover fire" for Eccleston, hence the breakaway from scum safe play. This actually then becomes a very good reason for why he became immediately defensive. (In his mind, its like.. WTF!! i just tried to divert attention from you, and now I am the prime suspect...) Hurndall3, what I want to know are two simple things. (1) Why do you feel compelled to answer on behalf of Eccleston constantly? Your last 2 pages of filter are regurgitating "Eccle is town", and not producing cases for scum. (2) Why is early game aggression indicative of "leaning town". I'm trying to reconcile my feelings about Eccleston; I've been suspicious of the slot since his original entrance to the game. The NK analysis and my original (perhaps flawed, if Baker is correct) VCA point quite heavily to him being one of the two remaining scum. When I read his posts I get the feeling he is being truthful but there is something that's sticking out to me: consistent and persistent use of "mislynch" which is him pushing the idea that he is town subconsciously. Either it's intentional use of the word or I'm just confirmation biased based on my current read of him, I was wondering if that was sticking out to anyone else. Not THAT he used the word mislynch, but how often it has been repeated when referring to himself over the past day or so. Enough people have a bad-town read on him that I'm having trouble making a judgement call on this idea especially when I've been trying to get him lynched. | ||
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Hurndall3
237 Posts
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SMcCoy
228 Posts
I can't get rid of the feeling that the dude is scum really, if he has been keeping his head low like this all game long it's exactly to justify that he's still alive at this point. He was never at real danger of getting lynched and yet he is alive. | ||
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SMcCoy
228 Posts
I made the effort to go through his word soup, and made the realization that this guy posts a crapload of stuff, but hardly pushes his own ideas with conviction, he draws every argument out into endlessness, talks complicated, but never reaches a conclusion. My conclusion is that this guy must be a scum-aligned philosophy-student, could also be a lawyer. Sure is, he hides with quantity over quality. I have extracted a quantum of pure substance from the interferences however and proudly present you a summary of Troughton's play: *bzzz* Lynch HW *bzzz* Voting JP to ensure lynch *bzzz* Eccleston scum *bzzz* You convinced me on Tom being scum, and I don't care enough to convince you on Eccleston *bzzz* Eccleston scum Here's a DrT quote compilation to go through and muse about: Baker it appears from my perspective has just decided to sheep who i think is the towniest guy in mccoy and who might have the largest thread control. Baker never gave reasoning he just called mccoy smart and it looks like he is just trying to latch on to an early wagon. i dont know what baker does maybe baker can enlighten us. all i see from you is just calling the person who i think must be town and sheeping his incorrect case. That is what i see and that is scummy because it seems like your just jumping on me with no reasoning to get a mis lynch. because it looks like to me hes just hoping on without reasoning. like he had very little interaction with me a big case comes and he just hops on. scum have a hard time explaining their actions so it seems like a good ploy to just sheep a townie with a wrong case hop on the wagon and probably just call me bad after i flip. PTroughton2 you seem to have not mentioned me all even though i am the major headline of this game why? pt not talking about me at all is a big red flag in my eyes as well. I could kill him. I think you have a point that he may not be reading the thread. how can he not take a stance on me one way or the other after all that has been put out there. ya lets kill him ##Vote: PTroughton | ||
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SMcCoy
228 Posts
Can't decide at all between Eccleston/Baker/Troughton/H3 Smith got targeted twice. He wanted to lynch Eccleston all the time. If Eccleston is scum, the only guy having him as town would be H3. I'm not confident into anything I conclude myself, so it's probably best to sheep the dead and analyze what scum wanted. But if you do that, then Davis would be scum for McGann's death. Would be super-active scum though. | ||
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