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Smurf Mini Mafia - Page 37

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Let's play a game...
TomB4
Profile Joined May 2013
61 Posts
June 06 2013 23:07 GMT
#721
Why is HW getting a free pass?

If you want to kill me, whatever, I don't actually care about this game anymore. I'm with McGann on this. Barely anyone is reading, it's almost pointless to keep posting.
He's brilliant, absolutely brilliant — he's almost up to my standards.
PTroughton2
Profile Joined May 2013
82 Posts
June 06 2013 23:10 GMT
#722
On June 07 2013 08:03 SMcCoy wrote:
What bothers me a lot is still the post with which HW joined the DrT bandwagon, since he kept himself the backdoor open to switch to Trout. If he was scum it was the obvious best choice for him to vote his scumbuddy first, and then switch when he'd have gotten any chance to.

To be honest I'd rather lynch H3 and HW first, Tom at least will surely keep posting something we can go with.

I apologize if I'm not very directional on this lynch but I detest that we have no vigi for the two and I would gladly use the lynch as such, they both are guilty of scummy things, they just don't have as many cause they keep their heads down on purpose.

You believe that two of H3, HW, and Tom are scum, then? Like I mentioned earlier, H3 is on my radar for how he's been playing, or I guess I should say not playing this game so far. Tom fuck-it voted for HW, do you think he did this to reduce suspicion on HW after he flips and that he is scum together with HW so we could waste time going back and forth about it later after he flips?
Just one small question: Why do you want to blow up the world?
SMcCoy
Profile Joined May 2013
228 Posts
June 06 2013 23:10 GMT
#723
Tom, you give up too quickly. We still have time before the lynch, and if you are innocent you have all the room you have to sway it towards one of H3/HW. I for one am open to that.

Or post a case on Eccleston. He is your scumread and you martyr like that? Eccleston is right here, you can talk, talk to your scumread, isn't that cool?
We all have a universe of our own terrors to face.
PTroughton2
Profile Joined May 2013
82 Posts
June 06 2013 23:11 GMT
#724
On June 07 2013 08:07 TomB4 wrote:
Why is HW getting a free pass?

If you want to kill me, whatever, I don't actually care about this game anymore. I'm with McGann on this. Barely anyone is reading, it's almost pointless to keep posting.

I haven't deeply read HW yet, although I did briefly discuss him after bringing up my earlier points in the game against H3. I'm more convinced of H3 than HW and you are voting for HW so I'm not sure what to make of that right now. There seems to be general consensus among those who are here that H3 needs to go, are you willing to vote for H3?
Just one small question: Why do you want to blow up the world?
SMcCoy
Profile Joined May 2013
228 Posts
June 06 2013 23:19 GMT
#725
I'd much rather have HW go first just for writing that thing about Eccleston. It really showed how he was trying to find ANY argument to use against him, regardless of the validity.

Here:
Note that "there's a fair chance of DrT being scum". It's not saying he is scum, in case he flips town, this post only looks like a foolish guess. If he flips scum (which he did), then Eccleston can look like he successfully found a scum without actually having the conviction to go through with it. And the second half looks needlessly drawn out.


He's assuming scum would post something about their scumbuddy for the case they flip town? Combine that with the way he portrayed Eccleston questioning H3 as soft-defense of DrT and you get the feeling that he's just flinging whatever could be construed as scummy.
We all have a universe of our own terrors to face.
SMcCoy
Profile Joined May 2013
228 Posts
June 06 2013 23:28 GMT
#726
Votecount please?

Here's the post in question:

On June 05 2013 11:30 HartnellWill wrote:
Eccleston is now up to 17 posts from 14. Let's rattle off his updated posts (from Eccleston 2.0) that weren't in my original case:

1 post introducing himself, 1 post claiming he is potentially blue but definitely not red (what does this prove? anyone can make this claim), and 1 post saying he's catching up. So now let's look at the 14 again:

Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 11:28 Eccleston wrote:
this is also a post

The /in post written by GMarshal, nothing to see here. On to Posts 2-5:

Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 17:33 Eccleston wrote:
Reporting in. Why do you prefer guessing at the scum team instead of trying to generate constructive discussion?

Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 17:45 Eccleston wrote:
Setup speculation, lynching policies ... something that you can reply to.

Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 18:06 Eccleston wrote:
From what I could see the setup is normal except for the KP delay function. It will not affect lynching until end game though, so I guess it doesn't.

Mr. McGann seems friendly enough. As for you, I don't know... Are you an angry villager or a murderous italian? Your reactions look valid from both perspectives.

Show nested quote +
On May 29 2013 19:26 Eccleston wrote:
On May 29 2013 18:34 MSmith1 wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [Snip] +
I'm not angry at all actually.. just playing the game and trying to determine alignments. I'm probably one of the most level-headed players on this forum.



On May 29 2013 17:33 Eccleston wrote:
Reporting in. Why do you prefer guessing at the scum team instead of trying to generate constructive discussion?

Can you explain your motivation behind this post? I'm still wondering why you felt the need to criticize my play as opposed to perhaps generating some "constructive discussion" yourself. What were you looking to accomplish here?


I was trying to stir the pot. Criticizing your play was more constructive than just having a wall of useless introductory posts.

@Baker1986 What's the point of your post? You're talking, but you're not saying anything.

If he is scum, Eccleston wants people to discuss the setup straightaway in case the names weren't RNGed and there is some clue giving him away. Note that MS1 labelled him, Davison and H3 as scum. But this is innocent unto itself and I skimmed the first 8 pages of the thread. So this by itself is not indicative of anything + Show Spoiler +
Or maybe the first 27. Who knows


Next two posts attempt to generate setup discussion. And then MS1 called him out having just as much evidence to accuse someone of shenaniganry as MS1 himself. Normal D1 discussion seeds by any account.



Post 6 has this gem:

Show nested quote +

McCoy's case on DrTennant isn't conclusive, but I think there's a fair chance of DrTennant being scum. The inconsistent suspicion toward ambiguous opinions and his defensive reactions could be scum indicators. I feel that point one would be a null tell if it wasn't for his strange justification about not being suspicious of me. It would be understandable if he said something like "Eccleston was asked to provide his opinion, but you were not." or that my post seemed less serious, but his "Yes eccelstone did have what could be interpreted as a wishy washy post but right before that he essential through out a town read for no reason. To me your post was devoid of actual content." sounds more like an after-the-fact justification (and a very bad one at that), especially since he said before that that my aggression was likely more of a town tell than a scum tell. Why didn't he touch on that again if that was what he thought?

Note that "there's a fair chance of DrT being scum". It's not saying he is scum, in case he flips town, this post only looks like a foolish guess. If he flips scum (which he did), then Eccleston can look like he successfully found a scum without actually having the conviction to go through with it. And the second half looks needlessly drawn out.

Next is 7, 8, and 13:

Show nested quote +
On May 31 2013 03:05 Eccleston wrote:
I think lynching PT2 at this time would be unwise. He's made one post and thrown a vote on Hurndall3 for being "brief and blunt", and suddenly, ten hours later, he's a prime suspect? I think you're stretching it when you say that
Being present but not caring about scumhunting is actually much worse than simply not being present at all, because there is standing evidence that a player has at least taken the time to read and post, but still is not contributing. That's far from "null" in my opinion.
At the time of his post the thread was about three and a half pages long. It doesn't really take much effort to read that and then write a five paragraph RP post and throw a vote on someone. He could just as well be disinterested townie. I could understand it if you were pushing him as a policy lynch because you're not certain about DrT, but how he is "far from null" is beyond me. He has made one (half serious) post in the entire game. Has he been useless? Yes. Does that make him scum? No.

Show nested quote +
On May 31 2013 03:40 Eccleston wrote:
On second thought, I do find it quite strange that PT2 even bothered writing his mini case on Hurndall. If he is mafia trying to just skate by without doing anything, why make this stupid post instead of sheeping McCoy? I can think of two reasons:

1. DrT is mafia and PT2 doesn't want to add any more pressure on him.
2. DrT is town and PT2 doesn't want to be held accountable if he is to be lynched.

I can't see any pro-town motivation behind his post though... Maybe he doesn't find DrT scummy, but can't be bothered to voice his opinion? Because it's hard to believe that he really is that convinced on Hurndall... The guy had posted about 300 words at that time.

Show nested quote +
On May 31 2013 07:31 Eccleston wrote:
On May 31 2013 05:55 SMcCoy wrote:
@ Eccleston

I need to know who you want to lynch, will you join the DrT wagon? Is there any specific conclusion you draw from your musings about PT2's motivations to write that post?

Yes, I agree with the case on DrT and I am on board with lynching him.
##Vote: DrTennant

I have my doubts about Hurndall too. I think there's a good chance of him flipping scum.

I think the conclusion you can draw from it is that his play is anti-town (which was already pretty apparent). Looking back, my second post on PT2 was pretty useless. I just started thinking about what his motivations might be and wrote the post, thinking I was onto something. I just overanalyzed it, and my first post on him was more sound than the second one.

I will post more in the morning.

His only solid read this game was PT2 and even then he flip flopped. There's no pressure involved in this read and the speculation doesn't serve to advance the game since by constantly redacting his case he's just spinning around in circles.

Post 9 is simply a clarification of Post 8. 10-12 is accusing Hurn for sheeping PT2 and the friendly chat that follows:

Show nested quote +
On May 31 2013 05:06 Eccleston wrote:
What the fuck Hurndall, are you psychotic or just very confused?

And after sheeping DrT in Post 13, he does this:

Show nested quote +
On May 31 2013 19:25 Eccleston wrote:
On May 31 2013 11:20 Hurndall3 wrote:
##unvote
##vote DrT


k I think I can sheep this DrT shit now that I read the case thoroughly.
these are the points that convinced me to sheep.
1 DrT's overdefense

2 unnatural calmness

3 repeated appeal that scum is among the inactives

4 one dimensional scumreads


Can you explain to me why you think that these points are exclusive to a scum mindset? For example, point three could be explained from a town perspective too; if DrT is a townie being tunneled, trying to shift the attention toward the lurkers is a perfectly valid thing to do if he thinks that the mafia are lurking.

Before, you dismissed his "overdefense", as brought up by MSmith1 here (it's point two in his post), saying that "2
people are searching for something to talk about early game. This is true of both town and scum." What made you change your mind?


Soft defense of the dude he's voting for. Something I wouldn't do unless I was foolishly trying to buy some street cred for my scumbuddy before he gets lynched.

Time to /lurk


We all have a universe of our own terrors to face.
PTroughton2
Profile Joined May 2013
82 Posts
June 06 2013 23:34 GMT
#727
On June 07 2013 08:19 SMcCoy wrote:
I'd much rather have HW go first just for writing that thing about Eccleston. It really showed how he was trying to find ANY argument to use against him, regardless of the validity.

Here:
Show nested quote +
Note that "there's a fair chance of DrT being scum". It's not saying he is scum, in case he flips town, this post only looks like a foolish guess. If he flips scum (which he did), then Eccleston can look like he successfully found a scum without actually having the conviction to go through with it. And the second half looks needlessly drawn out.


He's assuming scum would post something about their scumbuddy for the case they flip town? Combine that with the way he portrayed Eccleston questioning H3 as soft-defense of DrT and you get the feeling that he's just flinging whatever could be construed as scummy.

Need to see if the troops are here to be rallied.

I can see hints of HW posting for the sake of letting people know he's around, but not really doing anything constructive:
On June 06 2013 10:09 HartnellWill wrote:
Just got home, be right back

On June 06 2013 10:29 HartnellWill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2013 08:49 PTroughton2 wrote:
On June 06 2013 04:42 HartnellWill wrote:
Goddamn I would have no problem sheeping that TomB4 case. I still feel Eccleston is scum though. Maybe both are. Lynch one and shoot the other?

HW, how do you feel about Tom's response to Davison's case? I feel like it's a very compelling defense. Between Tom and H3 I feel like H3 is the more likely to be scum, and the dichotomy is rather wide. You wrote that you felt H3's vote post after deadline was scummy, and he has explained that his inactivity is due to IRL activities. Could you expand on that for us? I've been attributing his playful tone and many of his posts as things he would say as town, but I have to say that both of you expressing what seems to be a preferred desire to sheep is wearing on me.


I feel like Davison is more believable, given that Tom's defense wasn't too compelling. It's full of spite for someone accusing him of being scum, and it treats Eccleston and Eccleston 2.0 as polar opposites.

Checking in, followed by making a single post that weighs in on on the current topic, and barely pushing for his main scum read to be lynched or discussing it with others whatsoever:
On June 06 2013 04:42 HartnellWill wrote:
Goddamn I would have no problem sheeping that TomB4 case. I still feel Eccleston is scum though. Maybe both are. Lynch one and shoot the other?

On June 07 2013 05:26 HartnellWill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2013 04:30 Hurndall3 wrote:
other scumread is HW.
there is a very scummy connection between the two. Neither ever tries to figure out if the other is scum. They both push Ecc, TD mislynches.


I'm not pushing TD at all. Seems like TD 1.0 was just misunderstood. I believe TD 2.0.

Ecc is not a mislynch. Ecc is scum. We should all vote for him.

This seems to be a consistent theme with him, he even boldly claims in the thread that he is lurking and makes fun of himself with his "lurker den" comment. Hrm.

And McCoy just quoted the post in question, which by virtue of being ridiculous for mafia to do, seems to be a tactic he uses to get town credit without assisting the town in discourse.
On June 07 2013 08:28 SMcCoy wrote:
Votecount please?

Here's the post in question:

Show nested quote +
On June 05 2013 11:30 HartnellWill wrote:
Eccleston is now up to 17 posts from 14. Let's rattle off his updated posts (from Eccleston 2.0) that weren't in my original case:

1 post introducing himself, 1 post claiming he is potentially blue but definitely not red (what does this prove? anyone can make this claim), and 1 post saying he's catching up. So now let's look at the 14 again:

On May 29 2013 11:28 Eccleston wrote:
this is also a post

The /in post written by GMarshal, nothing to see here. On to Posts 2-5:

On May 29 2013 17:33 Eccleston wrote:
Reporting in. Why do you prefer guessing at the scum team instead of trying to generate constructive discussion?

On May 29 2013 17:45 Eccleston wrote:
Setup speculation, lynching policies ... something that you can reply to.

On May 29 2013 18:06 Eccleston wrote:
From what I could see the setup is normal except for the KP delay function. It will not affect lynching until end game though, so I guess it doesn't.

Mr. McGann seems friendly enough. As for you, I don't know... Are you an angry villager or a murderous italian? Your reactions look valid from both perspectives.

On May 29 2013 19:26 Eccleston wrote:
On May 29 2013 18:34 MSmith1 wrote:
+ Show Spoiler [Snip] +
I'm not angry at all actually.. just playing the game and trying to determine alignments. I'm probably one of the most level-headed players on this forum.



On May 29 2013 17:33 Eccleston wrote:
Reporting in. Why do you prefer guessing at the scum team instead of trying to generate constructive discussion?

Can you explain your motivation behind this post? I'm still wondering why you felt the need to criticize my play as opposed to perhaps generating some "constructive discussion" yourself. What were you looking to accomplish here?


I was trying to stir the pot. Criticizing your play was more constructive than just having a wall of useless introductory posts.

@Baker1986 What's the point of your post? You're talking, but you're not saying anything.

If he is scum, Eccleston wants people to discuss the setup straightaway in case the names weren't RNGed and there is some clue giving him away. Note that MS1 labelled him, Davison and H3 as scum. But this is innocent unto itself and I skimmed the first 8 pages of the thread. So this by itself is not indicative of anything + Show Spoiler +
Or maybe the first 27. Who knows


Next two posts attempt to generate setup discussion. And then MS1 called him out having just as much evidence to accuse someone of shenaniganry as MS1 himself. Normal D1 discussion seeds by any account.



Post 6 has this gem:


McCoy's case on DrTennant isn't conclusive, but I think there's a fair chance of DrTennant being scum. The inconsistent suspicion toward ambiguous opinions and his defensive reactions could be scum indicators. I feel that point one would be a null tell if it wasn't for his strange justification about not being suspicious of me. It would be understandable if he said something like "Eccleston was asked to provide his opinion, but you were not." or that my post seemed less serious, but his "Yes eccelstone did have what could be interpreted as a wishy washy post but right before that he essential through out a town read for no reason. To me your post was devoid of actual content." sounds more like an after-the-fact justification (and a very bad one at that), especially since he said before that that my aggression was likely more of a town tell than a scum tell. Why didn't he touch on that again if that was what he thought?

Note that "there's a fair chance of DrT being scum". It's not saying he is scum, in case he flips town, this post only looks like a foolish guess. If he flips scum (which he did), then Eccleston can look like he successfully found a scum without actually having the conviction to go through with it. And the second half looks needlessly drawn out.

Next is 7, 8, and 13:

On May 31 2013 03:05 Eccleston wrote:
I think lynching PT2 at this time would be unwise. He's made one post and thrown a vote on Hurndall3 for being "brief and blunt", and suddenly, ten hours later, he's a prime suspect? I think you're stretching it when you say that
Being present but not caring about scumhunting is actually much worse than simply not being present at all, because there is standing evidence that a player has at least taken the time to read and post, but still is not contributing. That's far from "null" in my opinion.
At the time of his post the thread was about three and a half pages long. It doesn't really take much effort to read that and then write a five paragraph RP post and throw a vote on someone. He could just as well be disinterested townie. I could understand it if you were pushing him as a policy lynch because you're not certain about DrT, but how he is "far from null" is beyond me. He has made one (half serious) post in the entire game. Has he been useless? Yes. Does that make him scum? No.

On May 31 2013 03:40 Eccleston wrote:
On second thought, I do find it quite strange that PT2 even bothered writing his mini case on Hurndall. If he is mafia trying to just skate by without doing anything, why make this stupid post instead of sheeping McCoy? I can think of two reasons:

1. DrT is mafia and PT2 doesn't want to add any more pressure on him.
2. DrT is town and PT2 doesn't want to be held accountable if he is to be lynched.

I can't see any pro-town motivation behind his post though... Maybe he doesn't find DrT scummy, but can't be bothered to voice his opinion? Because it's hard to believe that he really is that convinced on Hurndall... The guy had posted about 300 words at that time.

On May 31 2013 07:31 Eccleston wrote:
On May 31 2013 05:55 SMcCoy wrote:
@ Eccleston

I need to know who you want to lynch, will you join the DrT wagon? Is there any specific conclusion you draw from your musings about PT2's motivations to write that post?

Yes, I agree with the case on DrT and I am on board with lynching him.
##Vote: DrTennant

I have my doubts about Hurndall too. I think there's a good chance of him flipping scum.

I think the conclusion you can draw from it is that his play is anti-town (which was already pretty apparent). Looking back, my second post on PT2 was pretty useless. I just started thinking about what his motivations might be and wrote the post, thinking I was onto something. I just overanalyzed it, and my first post on him was more sound than the second one.

I will post more in the morning.

His only solid read this game was PT2 and even then he flip flopped. There's no pressure involved in this read and the speculation doesn't serve to advance the game since by constantly redacting his case he's just spinning around in circles.

Post 9 is simply a clarification of Post 8. 10-12 is accusing Hurn for sheeping PT2 and the friendly chat that follows:

On May 31 2013 05:06 Eccleston wrote:
What the fuck Hurndall, are you psychotic or just very confused?

And after sheeping DrT in Post 13, he does this:

On May 31 2013 19:25 Eccleston wrote:
On May 31 2013 11:20 Hurndall3 wrote:
##unvote
##vote DrT


k I think I can sheep this DrT shit now that I read the case thoroughly.
these are the points that convinced me to sheep.
1 DrT's overdefense

2 unnatural calmness

3 repeated appeal that scum is among the inactives

4 one dimensional scumreads


Can you explain to me why you think that these points are exclusive to a scum mindset? For example, point three could be explained from a town perspective too; if DrT is a townie being tunneled, trying to shift the attention toward the lurkers is a perfectly valid thing to do if he thinks that the mafia are lurking.

Before, you dismissed his "overdefense", as brought up by MSmith1 here (it's point two in his post), saying that "2
people are searching for something to talk about early game. This is true of both town and scum." What made you change your mind?


Soft defense of the dude he's voting for. Something I wouldn't do unless I was foolishly trying to buy some street cred for my scumbuddy before he gets lynched.

Time to /lurk


Just one small question: Why do you want to blow up the world?
TomB4
Profile Joined May 2013
61 Posts
June 06 2013 23:51 GMT
#728
Isn't lynch in 2 hours? I'm leaving the house in 10 minutes, I won't be around for deadline.
He's brilliant, absolutely brilliant — he's almost up to my standards.
PTroughton2
Profile Joined May 2013
82 Posts
June 06 2013 23:54 GMT
#729
On June 07 2013 08:51 TomB4 wrote:
Isn't lynch in 2 hours? I'm leaving the house in 10 minutes, I won't be around for deadline.

I don't know that 10 minutes is enough time to have a discussion but show me your points on HW and anyone else you can while you're here.
Just one small question: Why do you want to blow up the world?
SMcCoy
Profile Joined May 2013
228 Posts
June 07 2013 00:12 GMT
#730
Tom is growing scummier by the minute. Been here all this time doing nothing, and he even has no reason to be angry.
I wish we could activate triple-lynch.
We all have a universe of our own terrors to face.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-07 01:02:56
June 07 2013 00:42 GMT
#731
fucking votecounts suckk
Eccleston: (2)HartnellW, Baker,
TomB4: (4)TheDavison, Eccleston, otherH, McCoy, Trought
HartnellW: (1)TomB4
OtherH: (1)AdamMcGann

Tom is set to be lynched.
Day ends in 1 hour 20 minutes
If there are errors in this votecount, pm me please
No gg, No skill.
TheDavison
Profile Joined May 2013
157 Posts
June 07 2013 00:52 GMT
#732
We need baker or mcgann or hw onto tom
ANd soon
The illusion is always one of normality.
SMcCoy
Profile Joined May 2013
228 Posts
June 07 2013 00:55 GMT
#733
Davison, what makes you discard HW and H3 so easily?
We all have a universe of our own terrors to face.
TheDavison
Profile Joined May 2013
157 Posts
June 07 2013 01:06 GMT
#734
I dont discard H3.

Tom is my primary and has 5 votes. Why try to move elsewhere when we can obtain consolidation.

FRankly I am not sold on hartnell. I think his case on eccle is easy to write as a tunneled townie. I am choosing to treat him as bad town. And I felt the points u raised against him arentn valid because as a townie I could picture myself making simlar connections he did in a tunneled state.
There has already been analysis which showsnhe coild have affected the dr.t lynch. Instead he chose to sreengthen it.
I refuse to believe scum bussed so early.
So in that regard both tom and H3 fit the bill.

Tom is vote leader so stick with him is my suggestion
The illusion is always one of normality.
A McGann
Profile Joined May 2013
81 Posts
June 07 2013 01:15 GMT
#735
Phone posting.

Not interested in consolidating on toms. I'd rather no lynch than mislynch someone I believe to be town.
The universe hangs by such a delicate thread of points, it's useless to meddle with it.
TheDavison
Profile Joined May 2013
157 Posts
June 07 2013 01:25 GMT
#736
Great contribution there mcgann.

What have you done this cycle to justify your high horse position.

All I recall is OMGUS on me with zero analysis.

If You are town you should be ensuring a lynch occurs. This game in general has too much driftwood/dead weight and we need to eradicate it.

ALl tom does is create barriers to a lynch. But when it comes to pushing one he is very short on substance. Dead weight
The illusion is always one of normality.
A McGann
Profile Joined May 2013
81 Posts
June 07 2013 01:34 GMT
#737
It is not a high horse, it's simple logic.

I think he's town, therefore I'm not voting for him.
The universe hangs by such a delicate thread of points, it's useless to meddle with it.
TheDavison
Profile Joined May 2013
157 Posts
June 07 2013 01:44 GMT
#738
Yeah I understand what you are saying. And wont twist ya arm. I he is town to you so be it

BUt it is a high horse because you havent contributed anything significant this cycle and now have the power to derail any lynch from occuring.
You are potentially the keystone to preventing a no lynch. And whilst i can respect that you tjink tom is town. I cant reconcile the lack of effort to produce a better alternative
The illusion is always one of normality.
Eccleston
Profile Joined May 2013
75 Posts
June 07 2013 01:54 GMT
#739
Im back sorry for being away for a while. is it going to be a no lynch? I am willing to swap if it means avoiding a no lynch... but we should consolidate onto tom...
And with that sentence, you just lost the right to even talk to me
Eccleston
Profile Joined May 2013
75 Posts
June 07 2013 01:55 GMT
#740
McGann, if you want to talk to me... maybe we can convince each other or share reads... if you are here
And with that sentence, you just lost the right to even talk to me
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