EPT[M][N] Les Mafia
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
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goodkarma
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On May 18 2013 03:16 Stutters695 wrote: Maybe I'm reading to much into this but I'm wondering why you want people to focus on your meta? Let's say I tell you this is like my 13th game without rolling scum. What does that tell you about my play this game that you'd consider important at all right now? So he doesn't feel meta's important here. But: On May 18 2013 03:19 Stutters695 wrote: Excellent summary of my town play. That fabled scum game is still waiting to happen though. When it comes to excusing his lurky play, it matters. Also, I found this to be scummy: On May 18 2013 06:00 Stutters695 wrote: Right now I could get behind a Vayne lynch. vayne how many games have you played (on TL and in general if you've played on other sites)? In other words, he's ready to sheep onto a Vayne lynch bandwaggon if it gains momentum. But he doesn't want to draw atttention to himself by putting down a vote. #Vote: Stutters I look forward to Stutters's response. If it is to be believed he's sometimes useful as town, then that's another scumtell as he's been nothing but useless thus far. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On May 18 2013 06:51 VayneAuthority wrote: your earliest game is 2012, am I supposed to laugh? lmao. I was here when the mafia forum started in 2009. You're a newbie. Vayne, cut this out. All you're doing right now is shitting up the thread with content that literally does zero to solve this game. Save this banter for after the game, since right now it doesn't matter. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
I'm satisfied with your explanation, Stutters, and will look closely at your promised analysis (please don't promise and not deliver like you did in our newbie game  ).Regarding Grush As for Grush, I was of the opinion lynching someone because they don't say "starsenses" is pretty stupid. But then grush says: On May 18 2013 10:22 grush57 wrote: whoa whoa guys, just because I didn't claim starsenses doesn't mean I'm scum. While it will always be true that when I claim starsenses I will be town, I don't want it to be a 100% meta thing so I'm screwed when i get mafia. I am just gonna claim it when necessary or when I need to to survive from now on, so I don't get botched as scum. So in other words, you will always be town when you say starsenses. And you haven't said starsenses this game. Further, you say you will try to counter you own meta from now on, meaning you weren't starting to as of this game... All in all, this looks like a scumclaim. Further, his Vayne vote was an easy jump on a bandwagon I'd expect from scum. And the majority of his content after seems to be some kind of worthless trolly defense. ##Unvote: Stutters ##Vote: grush57 | ||
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goodkarma
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On May 18 2013 11:30 iamperfection wrote: gk want to vote jarjar? Can you explain to me how voting Jarjar is anything other than a lurker vote? The one odd thing about his filter is that even though he was lurky in his last newbie game too, he had more content by now than he does here. It's possible that he might fit the profile of a newbie scum too scared to post, but I don't see anything specifically scummy in what little he has posted... In other words, I'd rather focus on people who have at least a little content in their filter to analyze than gun for total lurkers right now. But if he continues to behave as he has closer to the deadline, his lurking may be a scumtell. | ||
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goodkarma
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On May 18 2013 12:44 s0Lstice wrote: Well, anyway, while you're catching up... Read your defense Stutters, we're cool for now. My two scumspecs are sputnik and goodkarma I agree with iamp and grush on sputnik. There is fuck all in his filter, he is being purposely evasive with his 'in character' speech, and then there was the 'credit to team' list of people who haven't contributed. I feel better about goodkarma though, because of his latest posts This case was unnecessary, first of all. It's like he wanted us all to see his ticket on the bandwagon was legit because he did some cursory legwork to get on it. He goes from debasing the entire reason for the lynch to fully buying in with break neck speed, based on a misrepresentation of the point grush was trying to get across. Then this....holy shit He asks why his vote would be anything more than a lurker vote, then provides a substantive point about how it would indeed not be just a lurker vote. This is so wishy-washy my clothes got clean just from reading it. He provides pros and cons until he argues himself into a wait and see corner. Can we kill this guy? Follow me and grush into the abyss! ##unvote ##Vote goodkarma So the first point I believe had something to do with Grush. You bold everything in that paragraph except for this, which is also very important to read: "Further, you say you will try to counter you own meta from now on, meaning you weren't starting to as of this game..." What's significant here is that Grush is holding himself to the starsenses thing. And that he says "from now on" indicating he wasn't considering changing his patterns until after he was held accountable for it here. That others brought it up was stupid, but that he also seems to hold value in it makes it relevant. As for misrepresentation you will need to elaborate, because I haven't misrepresented anything that Grush said. As for JarJar, I clearly pointed out it would be a lurker vote. NOWHERE in there did I say it wasn't a lurker vote... You're making up things I've done that clearly aren't there. As for my current vote, I'm still not sold that Grush is town. Darthpunk brought up the point that Grush might have thrown out a starsenses remark as scum since he was under heavy pressure. I believe he gave up on this point too easily. It came to my attention that Grush has only been scum twice as best I can tell (as of Feb this year anyway). With such a small sample size, I see it being very possible he'd be throw it down there as scum. But setting aside the whole "starsenses" thing, looking at Grush's filter I see a bandwagon vote on Vayne, a trollish defense, and an OMGUS vote on me. Grush has in fact done nothing but scummy stuff all game. This was also a basis for my vote. I'll look through filters again tomorrow, but I still am not convinced that Grush is this "guaranteed townie" some of you seem to think he is now that he spouted out his magic word. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
So to summarize my thoughts on Sputnik and JarJar: Both are lurkers. And both have played as lurkers in the past as town. Therefore, they are not necessarily acting differently from their town meta as far as activity goes. Looking at content, neither has much substance. I would rather not lynch into them today. That being said, I would rather lynch Sputnik than JarJar. WaveofShadow, on the other hand, is a different matter. From what I remember of his play in The Game, he played pretty horribly. As town he was wishy washy about his stances on most players, and when he was nearly lynched the only thing that really saved him was that he blueclaimed. Here, he seems to be a lot more sure of himself in places, but in a way that doesn't really make sense to me from a town perspective. Sputnik, who basically made one scummy post and lurked, is "sure scum" to him. And Grush is "sure town" for saying starsenses. This has already been discussed, but the contrast from his townplay is what stands out to me. Further, he seems to really like asking people for scumreads. His questions don't seem to really have any purpose other than to make him look more active. Look at his filter and see how many times he asks a variation of "Who you think is scum?" It's a pretty pointless thing to ask, given everyone here is going to be giving their scumreads anyways. ##Unvote ##Vote: WaveofShadow | ||
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goodkarma
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goodkarma
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As for consolidation, yes it's a bit early. But given the last few games I've obs'ed / been in have had profound problems with this, I figured I'd rather push for it sooner than later. I feel Wave is a good lynch for today, so I have no issue switching my vote to him. | ||
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goodkarma
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Got sniped by wave | ||
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goodkarma
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On May 19 2013 02:58 WaveofShadow wrote: The bolded is scummy as hell. Why consolidate before we've even hit the halfway point in the day? This just screams "oh shit everyone agrees Grush is town now, I need a way out but I still have look committed to my scumreads." You say you would rather lynch sputnik than Jarjar but don't say why, then you call me out for calling sputnik scummy for legitimate reasons? You and everyone else who have ever made meta cases on me calling me scum have been absolutely wrong. You're more than welcome to your vote but fuck you are the first person who I'm jumping to now if sputnik no longer looks like a good lynch to me. Just addressed the consolidation thing. As for Sputnik over JarJar: Sputnik looks like he'll never improve his post quality (and therefore it's more likely it would be a policy lynch even if we don't lynch him today) whereas JarJar will likely post enough content in upcoming days I'm confident I'll have a better read on him. The issue with your stance on Sputnik (in case the others voting you haven't made it clear enough to you) is that he's "obvscum" to you. Scum tend to take rigid stances like this, not townies. Especially when considering how little's actually in the guy's filter, it's hard to understand how you'd be so sure as town. | ||
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goodkarma
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Care to elaborate a little? Like how are my meta comparisons false, and how are my stances bad? I see you think I'm scum, but I don't see any analysis. | ||
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goodkarma
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I called JarJar a lurker. I have stated that he has done this as town, and that I haven't determined if he's scum yet. Only that lurking is scummy, especially coming from a newbie player. I am also aware your activity can potentially vary. But even in some of your shittier games you seem to be more involved than you've been here. I've explained the Grush thing to death. I encourage you to read my filter a little better. It's clear from what you're posting that you only glanced at it, which shows me you aren't very invested in this game. As far as quotes and whatnot, I'll be more than happy to oblige if you humor me with a real case. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
How on Earth do you go from aggressively voting me to this?: On May 19 2013 08:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: whatevs, i'm off to bed. you should prolly talk about vayne's policies or some other shit like that, and waste 20 pages.. vote for scum, vote for iamp. if not, BH or the russian dude. I'm not even a suspect on your list now? By the way I'm back guys, so feel free to ask questions if you have any. I noticed there's a few votes on me now. I need to look through what's happened in the last few pages to see what's up. Perhaps if someone can summarize the case points people still have to think I'm scum that would be great. I'll get out my latest reads here soonish. As for if you're serious about mislynching me, then I promise you I'll have a list post ready to get out my thoughts on everyone before the deadline. As an aside: I'm quite used to this kind of situation. Maybe it's my posting style, but every game it seems people aggro on me like this on day one. If you were to look at my past games as town you'd see this. I shine much more day 2 and onward. My day ones always seem to be like this for whatever reason... | ||
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goodkarma
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I feel he's a good lynch candidate as looking through his games the only scumgame he had he was more tunnelly toward his scum suspect day one. As in he wouldn't veer off him. He was a lot more sure of himself, and more methodical with his vote. This is a trait I didn't see in his other games. His excuses about activity this game may or may not be legit, but what I do know is that it's clearly obvious he's not very involved in this thread. His accusations of BH are pretty flimsy, yet he follows it up with a vote anyway and wait things out. In short, he's putting in no effort to solve the game. And his gameplay this game looks more similar to his scumgame than his towngames. For your review, his three newbie games: Compare his scum game: NMM XLI To his town games: NMM XLII NMM XXXIX And see what I mean. As for Wave, although his comments on Grush and Sputnik were scummy, he does seem to have an active involvement in this game. I'd much rather lynch JarJar today. Looking at his past games, his scummy play this game seems consistent with his prior mafia game.: ##Unvote ##Vote: JarJarDrinks | ||
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goodkarma
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In short, he comes down a lot harder on his scumsuspect in his play as scum. Look at those filters I've linked and you should see what I mean. | ||
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goodkarma
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Last post directed @Solstice. Sniped by a ton of people... | ||
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goodkarma
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On May 19 2013 11:24 s0Lstice wrote: Do I really need to quote this twice? The first paragraph is all about describing scumplay, which he says is tunnely and methodical. I have a simple question for you: Looking at JarJar's past games, do you feel his play this game more closely resembles his scumgame or his towngames? | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On May 19 2013 11:42 s0Lstice wrote: by your own criteria GK.. scum JarJar tunnels his top scum read agree, in the scum game you linked, he voted in his first post, and tunneled from then on. he did not mention anybody else he is suspicious of until 4 days (real time) after game start, only supplying town reads as supporting information scum JarJar was sure of himself agree, tunneling makes you look pretty sure of yourself scum JarJar was methodical with his vote yes, he voted early In this game, he has been suspicious of iamp here suspicious of grush here: and this comes AFTER he started in on BH. I would definitely say he is not tunneling here, in comparison to his scum game. His vote came only in response to iamps claim that he was bussing BH, it did not come with the case. His tone this game is definitely NOT sure of himself. He has been expressing remorse for his activity, and soft pressuring people as illustrated in the posts I showed. Like, this is such a terrible meta case. I need to think on what that means some. Perhaps you're right that the scum game he had prior doesn't fit perfectly like a glove here. But the reasoning he had behind voting BH here was more effortful than the kind of stuff typical of his towngames. As I said, methodical. I still feel my case is relevant. There are definite differences but I'd say it more closely follows his scumgame than town, no? As for pressure the pressure really wasn't that heavy. I would argue he was set on voting BH anyway, given the effort he put prior into setting up the vote. And as for "remorse," he said why he's not active. This does not equal to remorse. This is simply an excuse, which may or may not be legit. It really doesn't imply in any way that he'd be town. And as for "soft pressuring," it's not like he didn't pressure other people in his scumgame. However both here and there he seems to be fixated on voting one person independent of whatever's going on in the thread. And to be clear: I never said this was the damning case that confirmed scum. But I saw enough similarities between this game and JarJar's scumgame I feel it is more likely for him to be scum than town. And it elevated him to my strongest scumread. To be fair though, even though JarJar's reasons are poor, BH would also be a good lynch today. As Darth pointed out, BH hasn't done shit all game, which is completely inconsistent with his towngame. I'd understand if his involvement in other games weighed him down, but his decision to say he's for lynching people without pressuring them at all is not what town BH does. And that all he says in his defense is "lol" is enough to convince me to vote for him. ##Unvote ##Vote: BH BH shouldn't be allowed to get away with the shit he's been doing when he's clearly capable of much better than this as town. | ||
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goodkarma
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Day 1 I don't check my role PM. So you're basically random lynching. I've resolved to do my best to help town, regardless of alignment, day one. Even as scum, if I were to lynch a teammate I figured I'd just be removing a liability. It was the fruit of all the bitterness of having people down my throat every day one as town. And if you don't believe me, check hydra mini mafia II obsQT. The only reason I knew my alignment early there was because of my partner peaked. I've honestly become very tired of putting up with this shit every day one. So feel free to lynch me. I've put it out there. I'll check my alignment closer to the deadline... And hopefully you'll have enough sanity to go after the obvious people that should be looked into for lynching (BH / JarJar) instead of the guy that's being a tryhard. | ||
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goodkarma
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goodkarma
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http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/ShgdcVjPdDv Post #3 This is my meta for day one I've adopted. Feel free to think I'm lying if you want, but this was my last game I played and I've done the same thing here. | ||
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goodkarma
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In any case, I'll get together a neat little list post in case I'm mislynched today. I've read my PM now, and it says I'm town. | ||
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goodkarma
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Stutters: I know this guy is capable as town of meaningful analysis when he's actually around. Sadly though, that isn't the case here. He's content to afk for the most part... I’d say very slight town only because he seems to have a similar kind of rhetoric and demeanor to what I remember when I played with him in his newbie game. But I would definitely pressure him to get more out of him. Iamperfection: I'm pretty confident this guy's town right now. Grush: This guy's a troll. And a source of frustration for me. I'd say based on his behavior he's scum, but for now I will take a blind leap of faith for the starsenses (given that he's allegedly never ever broken from this). If he could provide any kind of helpful insight at all into his thoughts on this game I would feel far better about this... Blazinghand: This guy is not the aggressive dude I'm familiar with as scum or town. I get he's playing three games, but how is it that the only people he can get behind are a popular bandwagon (Vayne and later me) or complete lurkers (JarJar)? And then just troll… If it gets to some kind of LYLO situation and the expected number of blues are already accounted for I’d take his blueclaim to be a scum fakeclaim. WaveofShadow: I feel less good about lynching him right now. Looking through his filter, I see that he has an active involvement in the game. I'm not a fan of his playstyle, and the certainty of his statements about Grush and Sputnik were definitely scummy, but the way his reads evolve and the way he seems to actually care about what's going on in the thread indicates to me he's town (slight townread). JarJarDrinks: I’ve already discussed this guy. He is a scumread for me atm. Yamato: Townread. Solstice: In general what stands out to me about him is that he really doesn’t seem to stick his neck out too much. He’s spent a fair deal of time ambivalently thinking I’m scum off and on. In general, I’d say I really don’t like the exchanges we’ve had. Especially some of the stuff with JarJar felt like he was less interested in looking at what I was saying and more interested in finding ammunition to launch a case. He’s a slight scumread, mostly by process of elimination. Vayne: He seems to be cooperative with thread in actually moving away from his ridiculous no lynch idea and forming his own opinions. While he’s not a fountain of transparency, he’s played similarly to how he played his prior newbie game. Very slight townread. Sputnik: Afk lurker. Tbh I’m expecting him to get modkilled. If he isn’t modkilled, he’ll get vigi’ed. I’m going to say that his limited shitty play to date is not alignment indicative (he’s shown he can play like this as town in past games). So let’s say for now there’s a 75% chance the dude’s town (assuming 4 scum). Marv: Shows an interest in solving the game that I believe is consistent with town alignment. I must confess though I am not very familiar with his scumgame. Spicydinosaur: What stands out most to me about spicy is that he has had a bit to say but he's had literally ZERO scumreads most of the game. He's pretty wishy-washy in general. One post that demonstrated this well he literally started (in discussing Solstice) by saying “I think this guy is very scummy.” And ends the post saying “I don’t think he’s scum.” Further, in his vote post he somehow manages to mix up the name of who he’s voting for. For sure this could be an honest mistake, but it definitely doesn’t demonstrate he’s very invested in the game. When you think someone’s scum, it’s generally burning in your mind as you’re writing up your post. That he could just mix things up, say “oops sorry” to the thread, and then get away with it is disturbing to me. This is the kind of guy you shouldn't let fly under the radar. In the newbie game that just finished that I observed, he had opinions on other players he thought were scummy. That just isn’t the case here. He’s like “this guy looks kinda bad,” or “this guy is a shitty townie,” but when it comes to who’s actually scum he kinda doesn’t have much to say until his botched up vote post. Dandel: Seems very focused on getting me lynched. In general I haven’t found his discussions very insightful. A troll he may be, but honestly I don't feel very confident he's town atm. I agree with Yamato that this guy is a good lynch candidate. Darth: Seems to have an active interest in solving this game. I'd say he's town. Rayne: A disruptive troll that obviously hasn't been reading the thread and obviously doesn't have very much useful to say. Idk if scum would play this poorly. However, as best I can tell it’s not something this guy normally does as town… I’d say he might be trying a different scumgame than what he’s tried in the past. I just don’t feel comfortable giving people who do this shit a free pass. If Sputnik’s modkilled I’d vigi him for sure. In summary: ObvTown: GK Probably Town: Iamp, Yamato, Darth, Marv People I’m assuming are town for now: Blazinghand, Grush Slight Townreads: Wave, Vayne, Stutters Afk/modkill territory: Sputnik Scumlist: Spicy, JarJar, Dandel, Solstice, Rayne (I’d lynch in that order) | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
##Unvote ##Vote: SpicyDinosaur I will change my vote to one of the people on my scumlist for consolidation if the need arises tomorrow. However, I hope you take a good look at my case as I believe Spicy's more likely to flip scum than the other candidates being considered (JarJar, Dandel). Good night. | ||
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goodkarma
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On May 19 2013 20:21 marvellosity wrote: goodkarma: I don't believe you answered me about my prodding about what you wrote about reyn's meta, would you mind doing so? Also, regarding Spicy, how do you take into account the reads that iamp and I made on him? have you factored this in? Would really like to sleep but quickly: Reyn may have a very small sample size of scum games, and yes that makes the meta analysis I made of him weaker. But I did my best with what I could find, like I do when analyzing all the players here. As for spicy, he only discussed Solstice when you prodded him to. I disagree that he had that response worked on / mostly onhand as you seem to have speculated. I think he just made it up on the spot. And that his reponse was the wishy-washy kind you'd see from scum. I'd encourage you to look at this game, and then look at his last newbie game. He has opinions this game for sure, but his scumhunting has been pretty nonexistent. In said newbie game, he had suspects and keeped evolving opinions. Anyway, I'm going to bed for real this time. Good night. | ||
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goodkarma
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On May 19 2013 20:41 marvellosity wrote: No, that isn't what I wrote, or what I meant at least. I meant he'd written out an analysis on s0lstice, and as such it would have been super easy for him to vote for s0lstice. Instead he changed his mind on his play and didn't vote for him. As mafia, why bother including this change of heart? Seems an easy opportunity just to plop a vote down. The thing with rayn is that he was super-active in his scum newbie game, which not only makes the meta weaker, but potentially flat-out incorrect. Hopefully you'll be back before deadline. Regarding Spicy: As mafia, why bother with being decisive at all? If you don't stick your neck out at all, then you don't draw attention to yourself. I just don't understand what you're trying to get at here. As mafia you try to fly under the radar. One way to do that is to not really think anyone's scum. It may have been easy for him to vote Solstice, but he would be drawing some attention to himself by doing so. Regarding Rayne: As for Rayn if there's a game he's been super-active as scum I didn't see it. You would be correct I'd be flat-out incorrect if that were the case. It's not exactly like he made it easy for me to find his games by linking them in his profile. When I was diving into his last ten pages of posting history, I didn't manage to find the game to which you're referring. | ||
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goodkarma
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On May 19 2013 23:38 Spicydinosaur wrote: I'm wondering if this is an attempted scum vote redirect on me at the last minute to save someone else. Your entire post is hinged on me have 0 scum reads that you are so happy to point out a number of times. This is a complete flat out lie, and given my small filter, a deliberate misreading of me. This is a scum read on sputnik that you completely ignore. Then in the same post I vote for jarjar because of his excuses. GK's reading of me is completely false and his deliberate avoidance of my scum reads points to him being scum. So in your defense post Spicy, you claim to have scum reads. The quote about Sputnik that YOU'VE PRESENTED includes this passage: "More likely than not he'll show up as town, but everyone will have a solid defense for voting him." I would say that's the EXACT OPPOSITE of a scumread. And your second post refers to your vote post, which I already mentioned is the ONLY PLACE you've made any kind of scumread. And you botched it up at that, not even being able to keep straight the guy's name you were voting. Spicy, THIS DEFENSE POST is a flat-out lie, not my case against you. | ||
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goodkarma
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On May 20 2013 04:18 Spicydinosaur wrote: Its a scum read because he's been absolutely horrible that has done nothing to help town but i felt that he would be a better vig shot thanhim lynch brcause of seeingthe votes .Gk is still a liar because he ignored my read on jarjar and the vote on him. He claimed i had no scum reads and yet i voted. Hence hes a liar No. I said you had no scumreads except for your vote post. EVERYONE has to post a vote, so obviously you'll have to at some point make a single stance for a vote cycle. That you were so hesitant to make any kind of scumreads up until that point is the casepoint I made. This is distinctly different from how you played your only other game (where you were town), which can be referenced by everyone here: NMM XLI In said game, you were forthcoming with getting out scumreads, and showed a more active involvement with solving the game. Here, you seem more interested in giving an opinion here or there to show activity while not really sharing any scumreads. | ||
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goodkarma
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On May 20 2013 04:33 iamperfection wrote: everyone sheep me kill sputnik he is our best chance today we can sort out all the other crap later Do you really feel our best shot today, after all this crap, is to just go for a policy lurker lynch? | ||
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goodkarma
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On May 20 2013 04:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: Hey GK, if you looked at Jarjar's meta from his newb games how come you missed the fact that i played in NM XXXIX with him? I'll say this one more time: All I was able to access was your last ten pages of content. NMM XXXIX did not pop up. The earliest I had from the result was Red Team's Prize. If there's a way to look past that and filter through every post you've ever written in the TL interface please tell me, as that would be very useful to know in the future. | ||
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goodkarma
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On May 20 2013 04:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: And the fact that NEARLY ALL OF HIS POSTS ADRESS ME IN A WAY OR ANOTHER!! I looked through filters for everyone for many games. I skimmed through several of these, and I missed that he played with you that game. I was focused on patterns in play that a player exhibited as a given alignment, not the specifics of any game. | ||
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goodkarma
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On May 20 2013 04:54 marvellosity wrote: goodkarma, when you search through someone's profile, are you typing in "mafia" to filter their threads? For example, click this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/search.php?q=mafia&t=ct&f=31&u=raynpelikoneet&gb=date&d= No. I'd just click on their profile and look at the results. Only the last ten pages of their posting content would be shown. I will do this from now on. Thank you for this. | ||
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goodkarma
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On May 19 2013 20:24 goodkarma wrote: If I get up early enough I might try to make my SpicyDinosaur case a little more eloquent. The meat of it should be there though. ##Unvote ##Vote: SpicyDinosaur I will change my vote to one of the people on my scumlist for consolidation if the need arises tomorrow. However, I hope you take a good look at my case as I believe Spicy's more likely to flip scum than the other candidates being considered (JarJar, Dandel). Good night. Have you read this post? I will happily consolidate on those listed here if the need arises. Anything else? | ||
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goodkarma
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*Those listed in my list post. | ||
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goodkarma
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If for whatever crazy reason I get vigi'ed + Show Spoiler + (I highly doubt I'll get NK'ed, as should be obvious...) As for if I do die, I'd recommend you use the information of my flip to pursue persons on my list who've been interested in tunneling me to the exclusion of much other scumhunting. In particular Dandel comes to mind. Anyway, I'll leave my defense to the stuff brought up this night cycle until after the day post, should I survive. | ||
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goodkarma
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##Vote: BH | ||
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goodkarma
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I'll start by trying to fetch out Spicy's stuff, since that seemed to be a piece of it. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On May 20 2013 08:17 Spicydinosaur wrote: yeah i do. I think he's overemphasizing meta way too much and holds double standards. Take me and WoS for example. Here he says that WoS is scum because he's more sure of himself now, than when he was when he was town, hence he's scum. If WoS was more wishy washy like he was in previous games, gf would be ok with that according to his own logic. Here he says im scum for basically the same reason as WoS, in that I'm not acting like i did in my previous game where I had better reads earlier on. If this is where his analysis ends that would be at least consistent. He goes on later to state that being wishy washy is a complete scum trait. He's not consistent with his reasonings. Also he claims that in the newbie game i had suspects and evolving opinions. My reading on WoS can easily be considered an evolving opinion. One of my posts about WoS started off claiming he was scum but then explained he got better. How is that not an evolving opinion. If i called WoS scum first, and then in a second post said eh nvm, how would that be different. These thoughts and the ones i've had on him previously make me believe he's scum. When doing meta-analysis, different people behave differently. Should WoS change his playstyle one game from being wishy-washy and apologetic (as town) to being very sure of himself here, that's something that needs to be looked into. In general, when you see someone discussing having 100% certainty this guy's town and this guy's scum, it can be an indicator of privileged knowledge that only scum would be privy to. On the other hand, when you have someone like BH who's usually very assertive have little opinion on anyone, that can be a scumtell. In short, different people behave differently. I work with general scumtells for sure, but I also keep in consideration how people typically behave for both their town and scumgames. And then you discuss how your reading on WoS evolved over time, when you really didn't discuss him at all except when mixing up his name in your vote post... I really don't know what to make of your posting to date. On the one hand, it is super-scummy. On the other, it is very hard for me to believe that a scum would be so insanely careless. But then again, we have this post from you: On May 20 2013 11:11 Spicydinosaur wrote: I agree but didn't it seem over the top scummy, like no rational scum player would play it like that. So you have some awareness of how you could come off townie by looking insanely scummy (if that makes any sense...). I feel like I'm looking at your filter and I'm WIFOM-ing myself. The simplest explanation is that you're a newbie and as scum you would be less likely to have derped as hard as you have. And I'll stick with that assessment for now. I would really like to know what other scumreads you have other than myself and hopefully BH. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On May 21 2013 04:36 marvellosity wrote: Hmm, I found something that doesn't make GK look too hot. Here's his 2nd post in the game here, which I'll spoiler: + Show Spoiler + On May 18 2013 06:47 goodkarma wrote: I feel that Stutters's play so far has been scummy. First, he completely contradicts himself about his thoughts on meta: So he doesn't feel meta's important here. But: When it comes to excusing his lurky play, it matters. Also, I found this to be scummy: In other words, he's ready to sheep onto a Vayne lynch bandwaggon if it gains momentum. But he doesn't want to draw atttention to himself by putting down a vote. #Vote: Stutters I look forward to Stutters's response. If it is to be believed he's sometimes useful as town, then that's another scumtell as he's been nothing but useless thus far. Here's a couple of things he said in The Game. Highlights in bold and red are mine. The bolds are self-explanatory, and I bolded the red to explain it slightly - goodkarma is saying in this passage that it's important to push people for their motivations and thought processes, and thinks it's very important. Here he makes an early case on Stutters (despite saying last town-game he doesn't make early cases) and he never talked to him first about his thought processes. I would note at the end of his post in this thread he says "I look forward to Stutters response". But if we're to take his posts in The Game at face value, goodkarma likes to play by getting responses FIRST, voting LATER. First off, the wording is "don't typically," which is very important. You (and everyone else) seem to be treating my day one play as though I had knowledge of my alignment, which isn't the case... With Stutters, my early vote was a form of pressure. It's been my experience that he's very hard to get much out of at times, so an early case felt appropriate. Further, if you are to look at this game and compare it to prior ones, you will notice I have no mention of policy lurker lynches, which has been an early staple of my play (regardless of alignment) since like forever. So if you believe, as some seem to, that my use of meta-analysis is poor, yet are holding me to some kind of meta, I would like you to consider my two scumgames.: 1) LVII I could pretty much do whatever the fuck I wanted (as long as I didn't draw a RB), as Mattchew was caught and I was planning on suiciding night one. So I was more aggressive there than I normally would be. 2) My very first scumgame which no one seems to remember or mention (NMM XXIII) was mostly a lurkfest. I sat there and made a case or two. The moment I was suspected I crumbled up and waited to die... So in short, if I were scum I'm confident that what you'd see something different from both of them. But what you wouldn't have seen is me throwing around votes as hard as I did or changing my stances like I did. I've played enough to know better than to make a bajillion vote switches as scum. I would have been far more cautious. And yes, you could respond with something like "Well wouldn't you as scum, knowing all this, just make a post like this anyway?" You should be familiar enough now with the way I've played as town to understand my playstyle and thought process. People rail on me all the time for my day one townplay. It's because of policy talk, or focusing on lurkey players, or some creative play that no one likes (not looking at role PM day 1)... If you were to believe me when I say that I didn't look at my role PM until when I said I did in thread, and then assess my reads, I would like to know how you think they line up with yours. Move spicy to null, BH to certain scum+ Show Spoiler + (outside of some wildly unlikely 2-town mason, bad town vigi that doesn't claim shenanigans) | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On May 21 2013 06:59 Dandel Ion wrote: Why would a team around scum-BH shoot iamperfection, directly implicating him further? Basically, that assumes that either a SK shot iamp, or he's getting bussed all the way. Otherwise it just makes no sense. What kind of logic is this? Iamp was a strong town read to almost everyone here, and only mason-claimed 7 minutes before the end of the night cycle. It's very possible that the scumteam already planned on killing him, and didn't have time to react. Further, even if they did have time, why wouldn't the scumteam go for the blue? I doubt that there's two town masons in this kind of setup. With that in mind, I'd treat it as a counterclaim. Would you believe Iamp or BH is scum? In other words, BH is very likely getting lynched after iamp's claim regardless of whether iamp lives. So in either case it would make sense for scum to shoot him. That you implicate it's dumb for scum to shoot a claimed blue is very very scummy. There's clear scum motive for this post, and I have trouble visualizing how as town you'd think like this. Combined with your tunnelly and useless play this game, I'd be very interested in lynching you after we lynch BH. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On May 21 2013 08:11 marvellosity wrote: GK: so you're proposing you play differently when you don't know your alignment to when you know you're town? I've already explicitly described my thought process behind what I did day one in my filter. You should read that more closely.: On May 19 2013 13:07 goodkarma wrote: If you want to lynch me, suit yourself. Just know this: Day 1 I don't check my role PM. So you're basically random lynching. I've resolved to do my best to help town, regardless of alignment, day one. Even as scum, if I were to lynch a teammate I figured I'd just be removing a liability. It was the fruit of all the bitterness of having people down my throat every day one as town. And if you don't believe me, check hydra mini mafia II obsQT. The only reason I knew my alignment early there was because of my partner peaked. I've honestly become very tired of putting up with this shit every day one. So feel free to lynch me. I've put it out there. I'll check my alignment closer to the deadline... And hopefully you'll have enough sanity to go after the obvious people that should be looked into for lynching (BH / JarJar) instead of the guy that's being a tryhard. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On May 21 2013 08:29 marvellosity wrote: So you're playing for town, which you were pretty insistent in The Game meant you were taking it slow and not making premature cases, wanting to interact before voting etc. You can't use not reading your role PM as part of your defence but then say you'd be playing as you would as town. I definitely can. If I were to not PM peek and then later look and find out I'm scum, I wouldn't have bias in my posts until after that point. And that's very relevant to your case at hand, and what originally made you so irked, no? This is very much about you not believing that claim, so don't pretend it isn't. My play here is a little different from my prior games, and I've already highlighted those differences. I've also shown you how meta analyzing me based on my prior scumgames is pretty bad. That leaves my reads, so I'd like to ask you: what about them do you disagree with? That is my strength, and where the discussion should be. In particular, I'd be interested in hearing what you have to say about what I recently posted about Dandel. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On May 21 2013 07:45 goodkarma wrote: What kind of logic is this? Iamp was a strong town read to almost everyone here, and only mason-claimed 7 minutes before the end of the night cycle. It's very possible that the scumteam already planned on killing him, and didn't have time to react. Further, even if they did have time, why wouldn't the scumteam go for the blue? I doubt that there's two town masons in this kind of setup. With that in mind, I'd treat it as a counterclaim. Would you believe Iamp or BH is scum? In other words, BH is very likely getting lynched after iamp's claim regardless of whether iamp lives. So in either case it would make sense for scum to shoot him. That you implicate it's dumb for scum to shoot a claimed blue is very very scummy. There's clear scum motive for this post, and I have trouble visualizing how as town you'd think like this. Combined with your tunnelly and useless play this game, I'd be very interested in lynching you after we lynch BH. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On May 22 2013 09:11 s0Lstice wrote: Marv (and all)-- This is compelling: I went back and read that exchange and I see what you are getting at. I think it's significant. Building on what I said here... ...I went to look at JJ's filter again to see if it looked like he was scrambling for credit for BH's flip, because I seemed to remember him fighting for it a lot. Bolded is a passive reminder that he's been saying this all along. Also, talking about a DP bus play is just off the wall nuts imo. I see no reason why this thought would cross any town players mind at this juncture...but it could come from the mind of someone who has been thinking 'bus' all game. This is pointed out in the next quote. Another reminder that he has been on BH 24/7. Those speak for themselves. Combine this with what Marv was saying about his attitude: Fighting for credit for bus-->not getting it-->aggressive/attitude It reminds me of how Mattchew was caught in 'I Can't Believe it's Not Themed.' He and sciberbia drove for a lynch of a scum talismania, and scum Mattchew wanted to take credit for it when it was very much irrelevant who did what. I mean, we haven't seen a flip yet, but this fits pretty snugly. BH, JJ, one of Dandel/grush for scum....GK for 3p? I'm in general agreement with this post, except for the 3p thing and that a scum Dandel is far more likely than a scum grush. I have my own thoughts on who might be 3p, but I'll save that for the night phase. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On May 22 2013 09:57 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh hey, GK. Are you around? Bottom of this post. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=410972¤tpage=88#1752 Answer. If you were to look I discussed in the quote you cited there (literally everything under what you bolded) both that my scumgame would be different and in what way my scumplay would consistently vary from my townplay (strength of reads). It's all right there in my filter... | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On May 22 2013 11:34 Spicydinosaur wrote: I'm not a huge fan of meta arguments by themselves. If there are meta arguments + substantive claims in the current game then I could go along with it. I think GK is scummy as fuck but for different reasons. Care to elaborate on said different reasons? | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On May 22 2013 12:37 Spicydinosaur wrote: No response gk? See this is what im talking about with your popping in and out. On May 22 2013 11:48 Spicydinosaur wrote: Not checking your role pm, your popping in and out of the thread and the frequency of your posts is troubling, especially today. Your read on me was garbage, as well as your read on stutters. Your unwillingness to tell us your view on the 3P seems like a stall. Lastly, Rayne was mostly focused on you D1 and now he's dead. All this adds up to you being scummy. ' Thanks for your quick response, but there really isn't much for me to address here. When you mention the role PM thing I'm assuming you're saying you think I was lying, which I've already addressed. My read on you had some very valid points. How is what I said about you garbage when you BLATANLY misrepresent your read on sputnik, and mis-speak who you're talking about on MULTIPLE occasions? At the very least, that is a CLEAR sign of a lack of investment in this game. As for 3P stuff, BH is getting lynched today, and when I do present my case I would like to do it right. I'm not going to rush it because you're angwy. I probably should have just kept it to myself until I post it, as this kind of thing inevitably happens, but rest assured it will be out there long before it needs to be considered for next lynch. As for this popping in and out thing, I don't respond to everything. Especially when arguements I've already replied to are similar to the ones being brought up now (such as stupid meta cases), or the answer to the questions are in my filter but people are too damned ignorant/lazy to look into it. And I may not be the most super-active guy in thread right now, but I'm comfortable with the direction of the game (outside of course this sentiment that I'm scum). Dandel and JJB should be lynched. I will be providing a bit more discussion on Dandel, but JJB has been discussed to death by both myself and others here in thread. And the 3P thing I'll get to during next night cycle. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
As for who to push, you guys are already hellaconfident you have some kind of solid meta-read on me. So it really doesn't matter what I tell you until I flip. Further, you'd have to be pretty bad to not see Dandel is pretty much definite scum at this point. For that reason, I'm not going to make an extensive case or anything. I will be voting him tomorrow (assuming SK doesn't remove me from game), and afk from thread. I'd say to look really hard at the people pushing for my lynch to the exclusion of everything else. Again, Dandel comes to mind. Also look into Spicy. I know many of you for whatever reason think he's town but he's hardcore derped all game. As I said before it demonstrates a lack of investment in this game. Further, he's given an explanation for Rayne's death (I NK'ed him), which considering that pretty much everyone at some point that day wanted me dead seems pretty peculiar to me. There could definitely be no meaning behind who the SK killed, but I'd say it's more likely that there is. Rayne may have been chosen out of fear of him picking up on the play differences of someone he's had a history with, which has JJD come to mind too. All speculation though, so really shouldn't be a primary reason to be lynching people. I'd also suggest you look into people who do things that feel a little off. Like Vayne's vote for me instead of BH felt off to me. Again, though this won't be even possible to you until you either clear your heads and consider a world where I might not be scum, or I flip. A bit rambly, and I really don't feel like editing it like I usually do. Whatevs. At this point, my lynch order would be this: Dandel-->JJD-->Spicy-->Vayne I'd also take a careful look at Solstice. He seems to me to be very on top of staying out of the spotlight. He's contributed, but he definitely isn't sticking his neck out at all. I'm checking out of thread. Cya | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
I've had some time to cool down, and will be back to solve the game when I have time tomorrow. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Tomorrow is likely LYLO, if there's a tomorrow at all. And so will be pretty much the rest of the game. As such, we should iron out today who's going to be lynched and in what order. Our town leadership keeps dwindling after each night cycle, so coming to a decision ASAP is important. I'll check here frequently to answer questions if someone has some (I think Wave says he has some???), but I'm diving filters now. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
I'm feeling a bit mindfucked right now trying to sort out this mess. I would argue neither of our lynches so far have been super-informative given how they were fairly uncontroversial / unanimous. What I'm fairly confident about right now is that myself (100%), Wave, and DP are town. Grush I'd put as town too, as the starsense thing seems to be his only towntell, and I'll have faith that he won't ruin it for himself. Then of the pool of remaining people I find it a little hard to fathom Solstice playing this well as scum having never played it before. He's stayed uncontroversial / unnoticed for the most part for sure, but he's still been semi-helpful / pro-town for most of the game, as well as fairly active. I'm leaning on him being town, but I could definitely be wrong. Then we have this mess: Stutters/JJD/Vayne/Marv Stutters again has had no scumgame. But what I find peculiar about his play this game is that while he seems to be rather unapologetic about being afk most the time in other games (as best I can tell anyway... I'll confess I skimmed pretty hard here. If I'm wrong feel free to point it out.), here he seems to have conjured up multiple IRL excuses. As though he needs to try extra-hard to validate with us that he's out doing other stuff, and that we need to excuse his inactivity. This just doesn't sit well with me, as well as how he seems to be certain at this point that I'm scum. That felt a bit out of nowhere to me, looking at his past postings. Also, how he made a comment about BH making a second scumslip, saying something like "get him boys." He seems to be taking hard lines when it comes to pushing lynches, which doesn't feel to me to be coming from town. JJD is just so terrible it boggles my mind. He definitely is not in sync with thread sentiment, and is content to do his own thing. I give him some townie points for this, since the kind of brazen stuff he's been doing just doesn't make much sense to me as scum. He's just been drawing soooo much attention to himself. And he's stood by what he's said for the most part. Further, he seemed genuinely investigative about the best move for today. From scum's perspective, SK is a threat that needs to be eliminated. In just about every scenario, I'd see them eagerly jumping onto the chance to get the SK lynched here, so I found that encouraging. You might be thinking why the 180 spin on opinion? He could definitely be scum, in that he is clearly not very up to speed with the thread to be coming to some of the conclusions he has. But being bad isn't the same as being scum, and right now I'm inclined towards believing he's bad town. I've completely re-read every filter and this is my conclusion right now. I mean he could just be a lurky scum with no real concern with keeping up with thread or trying, but bad town feels more likely. As for Vayne, I've already mentioned the BH thing. I don't get how you just say something to the extent of this is wrong, and then try so very little to switch others' viewpoints to your candidate. Instead, you sit there and say something like "this is the most anticipated flip," as in you really don't care if BH gets lynched. Further, that he seems to be unconcerned with the very dire situation we're in now, and that his chief concern seems to be to get me lynched to the exclusion of determining all scum (which is very necessary for us to do at this point) is something I find unsettling. Marv seems to have fallen into complete complacency, which is the exact opposite of what a town Marv should be doing. Further, he's cited who thought he was town as some kind of credential when his play should be speaking to that (a small point, but it stuck out to me). Finally, he doesn't seem to be pursuing scumreads very aggressively. I don't know what this yuck stuff is about, but when town's on the verge of losing, I'd fully expect much more from him. And maybe town Marv can be apathetic, but given we need to work to find ALL THE SCUM, I'd say he's someone to look into. It is very unsettling to me how little he's been doing to turn this around. The scumteam I propose is Stutters/Vayne/Marv. I don't feel super-confident about this, but given everything I've looked at this is the best I have. Please do comment on this. We absolutely need to figure out our plan for the upcoming days now, and not put it off. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On May 25 2013 19:04 marvellosity wrote: I actually think s0lstice is town, partly from his general play, partly from the really dumb fight he got into with me. As a general note about myself, I'm not apathetic, this is the lynch we need to make today and there's a reasonably decent chance we won't even be here tomorrow to find de mafioso. If we are around tomorrow to do so, then we can look in earnest. I only reference the players who thought I was blates town because it should be pretty obvious I'm town, and it's obvious enough that other players agreed with me. GK's characterisation of my play is terribly weak. Thing is, GK, I can easily make some 1000 word post talking about every player in the game and coming to any conclusion I like. That's really really easy. You continually make these large list posts calling townies mafia. You don't actually push anything for shit, GK. So apparently you get really upset about listposts... This whole "I could make up reads" arguement could easily be applied to pretty much every kind of post, so that's really the bulk of it. A listpost is appropriate here, as if we're around tomorrow, it's almost guaranteed to be LYLO all the rest of the game... We have to figure out the entire scumteam now. So while sometimes people are all angry about listposts giving extra information to scum, "outing townies" or whatnot, it's appropriate here. And this is only the second time I've made a listpost. The first being the night I felt I had a good chance at getting vigi'd, which was also appropriate given I wanted to leave town with my reads. Further, regarding this "your characterization of me is weak" thing: we don't have an obvious scumteam (or we'd have nothing here to discuss), so you being part of a scumteam is a very valid possibility. Instead of getting upset, perhaps you can get in here and share with us your reads. So if you are town we can figure this game out, and maybe not lose. This "you don't push your reads" thing is moreso valid than anything else you brought up. I have been put so hard on the defensive the past few cycles, I really haven't re-geared myself into some kind of read pushing mode. Up until now, really people have more or less ignored most of what I've had to say unless they were pushing a case for me being scum (since like everyone assumed I was scum)... I'll be following up on what those on my suspect list here have said to my recent posting, and go from there. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On May 26 2013 00:13 Stutters695 wrote: Oh and GK, every game (unless you're reading my newbies) I'm apologetic for having to afk. If anything you could say that I've actually followed through on promises to deliver later where in past games I haven't as a deviation from my town meta(not that I'd consider that bad at all). I'm not sure what you're saying about hard lines on stances, you'd have to elaborate, and read the "get him boys" in context, Marv said spicy was antagonizing BH so I thought I'd jump in when nothing else was going on for laughs. Perhaps I should rephrase this: Did you actually conjure up so many excuses? You had some in prior games for sure, but they're rather prevalent this game. I mean I've seen a rather large number of remarks like this one this game, and it stood out to me as a curious tendancy. It does look like there's some of this in prior games, but they're like everywhere in this one.: On May 26 2013 01:36 Stutters695 wrote: Well rainbow river got scrapped so we're drinking out by the pool instead. I'll be semi inactive but checking in until later. What did you want to talk about? I really don't care if you're off drinking somewhere. What's relevant is that when you're here you are actively scumhunting, and all I've really seen is you have an interest in lynching me... Would you mind laying out what you envision to be the scumteam? I mean clearly it's more than one guy. There's at least three scum, yet I seem to be the only guy you're concerned about... And somehow I'm "sure scum," in which case one would think you'd be devoting your scumhunting energies finding the remaining scum. | ||
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goodkarma
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On May 25 2013 15:06 VayneAuthority wrote: You know GK if you made more posts like this instead of martyring yourself I wouldnt want to have you lynched, just so were clear on that. As well as your concern for me its nothing that I can really disprove, thats always been my playstyle if you want to look into me. I put down the vote I think has the best chance of winning the game regardless of what others think. If you think I have any sway on this game when everyone takes me as a joke you're out of your mind... as I've said my scumteam is you/s0lstice/WoS/dandel, but now that dandel is SK im reconsidering if its just you 3 or if theres a 4th which I guess doesnt matter if we lose right now. What exactly is this remark supposed to mean? I get that you hate martyrs, I really do. You've remarked on it a few times now, but my understanding is that we're hunting for scum. And this remark seems to imply that you like my post enough that you'd consider me not being lynchworthy, if only I'd make more posts like it? It's a little hard for me to wrap my head around this... So your verdict is I'm scum, but your verdict is that post makes me look town? Perhaps I'm overcomplicating your post here, but it just doesn't feel like you're fully invested in pushing my mislynch with remarks like this one. Further, while perhaps "martyring" is a pet peave of yours, invalidating yourself as useless / "a joke" is something that I look at as a scum trait. What purpose does this remark about you being perceived as a joke have to do with trying to win this game? Absolutely none... What it leaves me with is the feeling that you are trying to invaldate your own play, and as I just said that's a scum trait... Also, apparently WoS is scum in your eyes because he "shit up the thread the moment people started unvoting BH?" From what I read, that looks to be BH's logic. Have you looked at anything he's done past that point, and has that done anything for your read? While we're at it, can you run through exactly how Solstice is scum other than this "my gut tells me so" thing? You're like "please reference my filter" in multiple places... When I look through what I pull up is this: On May 25 2013 12:23 VayneAuthority wrote: GK - ive pointed out a ton of weird things about him from his martyr posts to the 2 RB claims to ATE'ing everytime he gets voted for even if he isnt indefinitely lynched. Hes been playing super defensive all game and I cant believe he isnt lynched yet. Runner-up - s0lstice, I have given some analysis on it earlier in my filter, more of a gut read than anything. And then some really really old stuff from day one. So WoS asked you, and I will too: could you please elaborate on this guy? What also concerns me is that you seem to be taking stances on people as scumreads, and then just sitting on it. Your reads don't look like they evolve much at all as the game progresses, and more stuff is posted... | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Solstice doesn't look that great as far as sheeping Yamato's reads then just sitting on them. I may be giving him too little credit, as part of my assessment of him was that if he were scum, having never played it before he'd reveal it more obviously than here. I mean he does interject his own thoughts on issues, especially related to me as I recall. But that he can just say "what Yamato said," and then not come in and update his reads at all for an entire cycle is pretty unsettling. I said slight town in my own list post, but maybe null is better. I've always been a bit of a sucker for pro-town players, but pro-town playstyle doesn't mean he isn't scum. And as for Marv, I'll trust DP that he is town. Between what he and Marv have had to say about his recent lack of posting/concern, I would say it's reasonable that he is town. Which means that it's between Stutters/VA/JJD/Solstice for the scumteam. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On May 26 2013 04:10 Stutters695 wrote: Top one: wether or not I'm scum, my answer would be the same. I can give you pics though :p. As much fun as it would be to play mafia all the time real life comes first. My current scum team would be you,JJD and either Marv or Grush. I'm just not comfortable with his play right now and Grush breaking star senses seems bad. That's pending a re-read on the others but I don't see DP as scum, Vayne is very doubtful and the others I need to really re-read to piece this together, but those are my main targets. I'm starting to favor a JJD lynch over you, but I'll have all of that ready before the nk in case I die. Could you explain why you see VA as being doubtful? | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
VA/Solstice/JJD are scum I'm still convinced that WoS and Grush are town, and as best I can tell DP and Marv are town (I'll take another look at their filters tomorrow)... So really that's the only remaining possibility... I'll see if there's anything I may have missed tomorrow. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
I already explained how I've come to my current reads, in my filter... It included everyone on that list plus Stutters. In fact, it was in a post addressed directly to you.: + Show Spoiler + On May 26 2013 04:18 goodkarma wrote: @Wave: Solstice doesn't look that great as far as sheeping Yamato's reads then just sitting on them. I may be giving him too little credit, as part of my assessment of him was that if he were scum, having never played it before he'd reveal it more obviously than here. I mean he does interject his own thoughts on issues, especially related to me as I recall. But that he can just say "what Yamato said," and then not come in and update his reads at all for an entire cycle is pretty unsettling. I said slight town in my own list post, but maybe null is better. I've always been a bit of a sucker for pro-town players, but pro-town playstyle doesn't mean he isn't scum. And as for Marv, I'll trust DP that he is town. Between what he and Marv have had to say about his recent lack of posting/concern, I would say it's reasonable that he is town. Which means that it's between Stutters/VA/JJD/Solstice for the scumteam. As for the Grush thing, I thought through how terrible his life would be if he removed his only towntell from his game to win this game as scum. I mean he could do this, but I don't think he would. So yeah, it's not a 100% thing, but I'm keeping him in the town column. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
I was roleblocked last night. Hosts gave me a late PM... | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On May 28 2013 00:25 WaveofShadow wrote: I know, but I wanted something updated on solstice since it's been almost 48h since you posted that and *stuff* has happened. You realize how awful that RB claim is, right? The RB claim is not awful because it's true. The fact that both me and Solstice were RB'ed more or less confirms in my mind there is most likely a mafia RB and the JK RB. Stutters most likely JK'ed me last night. Further, either solstice or myself is SK or scum sent to deal KP and got blocked, mafia hit the SK last night, both mafia and SK hit the same target, or mafia or SK decided not to shoot. Those are all the possibilities. Any speculation that argues one of these to the exclusion of the others is WIFOM. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
And yeah, if you'd assume I'd lie about a RB, maybe I could be SK. But what would be my motive for lying? And if I only lied once, which would have to be the case, where did the other RB from day 2 go??? Neither theory makes any sense. You pretty much have to assume I'm a compulsive liar to be SK, and Dandel's actions don't really make sense if we're both scum. And this "He is self-aware of all these things. Therefore, he must be cleverly planning all of this out and tricking us..." kind of logic that seems to be used repeatedly by Marv doesn't really make sense to me. It's like all of this is out there in the open. The SK stuff is especially obvious. Like come on. How hard is it for you guys to figure out I'm not scum? You can talk yourself into some corner that I am some kind of super-clever scumster, or you can just accept that I really don't fit as scum. Maybe I wouldn't have to point this stuff out if you were a little more thorough with your assessment. It deeply bothers me that Marv is pushing this lynch. As far as vote switching and whatnot scummy stuff you have to say about my filter, I've already discussed where I was coming from on all of that. If you feel that my stances were scummy whatever. I've said all I'm going to on that. And regarding my early talk about SK theory, I did discuss that a little bit. It was revolving around speculation on the death of Rayne. But really, I didn't have anything more to bring up on that subject than I already did. To find both SK and scum, my approach has been to use process of elimination to determine who's non-town in this game. I don't feel very good about Marv/Solstice right now. Both have done townie things, and rather non-townie things. I am more confident with JJD/Vayne being non-town right now. And if there's been some "wishy-washy" language here and there, it's because it hasn't been easy for me this game to spot out scum. As such, my assessments and theories have been changing quite a bit. Whatever happens, we're in LYLO, so we'd best come to some kind of consensus on who to vote today. I'm most confident with JJD/Vayne being scum. Solstice I'm a bit more on the fence on. I actually felt some of the arguing he made that DP and Marv were both scum was townie, as I don't visualize a scum sticking his neck out like that. Yet... up until that point he seemed to blend in so darned well... I'll sheep Wave, who I'm confident is town.: ##Vote: JJD | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On June 04 2013 18:16 marvellosity wrote: This is what the whole game boiled down to actually. The misread on you wasn't actually disastrous, but the whole GK issue made your push less convincing, and led me to not being sure enough to push JJD on the next day. This whole game was actually the "GK issue". No. The whole game was multiple issues.: 1) Sputnik mislynch was pretty terrible. It was pretty much a random lynch. Honestly, the only random lynch you could make. At least everyone else contributed somewhat... The guy had a good chance of getting vigi'ed, and if not vigi'ed, then modkilled in a later day. He was pretty much a truly random lynch, as he was going to play pretty much not at all regardless of alignment. His lynch yielded pretty much no information to go off of in future days, meaning that it was a completely useless thing to do... Mislynching me would have been better, since at least then there would have been oodles of information for you to dig through after the flip. And sure, maybe you'd have to deal with him in later days and that would cost you the game, but doesn't lynching him early do that to an even worse degree? I mean you still are down one mislynch of the two allowed regardless of when you mislynch him, except you can use process of elimination to determine whether he's scum if he's still around later on. Wheras on day one there's so much uncertaintly still that you'd best be going with your strongest read, as you doubtless won't be 2) BH mislynch at least from my perspective wasn't terrible. This was a guy who came back last minute to spout out how I (as town) should really get lynched. I mean I know I'm town, so that didn't sit very well with me, since I thought he was just trying to buy himself one more day. Maybe it sat better with others. But I mislynched BH, and very well might do it again if he plays like he did this game. What also got me was this contentment with pushing my lynch while not pressuring me at all... Very un-BH like. Didn't make any sense to me... I pegged him as scum. Honestly, no matter what he says, his play was objectively scummy this game. Had he jumped off of this whole knowledge of the setup thing earlier, and tunneled people in a productive townie BH way he could easily have staved off his mislynch. 3) Iamp role-claim bad. 4) Lol that last day consolidation was OP. I absolutely loved how Marv, who most people thought was town, would say let's lynch this guy, and then most of town did the exact opposite thing. In a setup where you had to get everything right if you mislynched the first two days, JD certainly had to get removed at some point. I suppose some of you could argue the same thing about me. But I still feel my defense was pretty solid. But you guys were so biased at that point it really wouldn't have mattered what I said to you outside of maybe a blue-claim. Sure, I could have played a bit better, but the blame for my mislynch also fell squarely on town. If you can't consolidate in MYLO, you lose regardless. That's like town 101... This is all moot though, as LYLO was really day 2, since DP had the swing vote day 3 and he'd resolved to side with scum, making him effectively fifth scum so that even if town consolidated better scum could get their mislynch through anyway... 5) Along those lines, setup was definitely scum favored. You have two half masons who lack the normal benefit of knowing at least one confirmed town... and a half cop... Only real decent role town had was JK, who is kinda a half medic, since you're often RB'ing a guy you think is town... Then you give a four-man scumteam not one but two vigi shots, while giving town zero... And top it off with a survivor, which can effectively turn into a fifth scumteam member, and you're kinda left with a pretty scum-favored game. Two mislynches for the entire game is pretty harsh without giving town a better assortment of power roles to work with. Like at least give us a full cop, or a full mason, or something... T_T I could expand on the multiple ways the scumreads on me were bad, but that wasn't what this game revolved around really... Game was kinda over after BH got mislynched. Which isn't the best game-balance wise imho. I mean maybe town didn't deserve to win, but really with the way things were set up it didn't feel like they had a good chance to win from the very start... In some ways, I would consider myself town MVP for at least recognizing the day one mislynch to be terrible, and for getting pretty close to nailing down the whole scumteam by the end of the game. My defense was pretty solid too, if anyone were to have actually stepped back and looked at it. And by anyone, I mean Marv... Props to Wave for an amazing scumgame. You had me fooled. You've forced me to upgrade to GK 2.0  .And thanks to the hosts for putting in the time to make this game possible. I may be a bit bitter about the setup, but it was still a pleasure to play, so thank you. | ||
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