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On April 11 2013 11:32 Ace wrote:
I had DP and Sciberbia as my top two Town reads about 2 days in. Then WoS, and finally marv after he revealed his notes and I realized he wasn't a lazy sack of shit.
Palmar.../facepalm
hey at least I voted scum 2/3 days, and to be honest killing you was fun enough to make it worth it.
Sure I may have been off a lot, but at least I'm not marv.
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On April 11 2013 17:18 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 16:14 Oatsmaster wrote:On April 11 2013 16:11 DarthPunk wrote:
Looking back on it that axle wagon really raped the scum team. yup. Both of us were sleeping/out. That was probably the tipping point. Marv dying just screwed us over more. Lightning rod should never be ever used again Dandel. It basically takes out the choice in NK day 1 for scum which wouldve been somewhat vital this game. It's kind of funny that you and marv were yelling at me/calling me stupid so much for calling you scum day one.
You should consider yourself lucky DP; calling oats scum nearly got me lynched. Don't let mean old marv get you down 
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On April 11 2013 17:55 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 11:32 Ace wrote:
I had DP and Sciberbia as my top two Town reads about 2 days in. Then WoS, and finally marv after he revealed his notes and I realized he wasn't a lazy sack of shit.
Palmar.../facepalm hey at least I voted scum 2/3 days, and to be honest killing you was fun enough to make it worth it. Sure I may have been off a lot, but at least I'm not marv.
at least I actually caught one, dear
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On April 11 2013 18:59 sciberbia wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 17:18 DarthPunk wrote:On April 11 2013 16:14 Oatsmaster wrote:On April 11 2013 16:11 DarthPunk wrote:
Looking back on it that axle wagon really raped the scum team. yup. Both of us were sleeping/out. That was probably the tipping point. Marv dying just screwed us over more. Lightning rod should never be ever used again Dandel. It basically takes out the choice in NK day 1 for scum which wouldve been somewhat vital this game. It's kind of funny that you and marv were yelling at me/calling me stupid so much for calling you scum day one. You should consider yourself lucky DP; calling oats scum nearly got me lynched. Don't let mean old marv get you down
That is true lol. I couldn't believe people wanted to lynch you. :O
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On April 11 2013 19:08 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 18:59 sciberbia wrote:On April 11 2013 17:18 DarthPunk wrote:On April 11 2013 16:14 Oatsmaster wrote:On April 11 2013 16:11 DarthPunk wrote:
Looking back on it that axle wagon really raped the scum team. yup. Both of us were sleeping/out. That was probably the tipping point. Marv dying just screwed us over more. Lightning rod should never be ever used again Dandel. It basically takes out the choice in NK day 1 for scum which wouldve been somewhat vital this game. It's kind of funny that you and marv were yelling at me/calling me stupid so much for calling you scum day one. You should consider yourself lucky DP; calling oats scum nearly got me lynched. Don't let mean old marv get you down That is true lol. I couldn't believe people wanted to lynch you. :O
Damn. I almost lynched sci too.
So many close calls for town 
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I already said I won't use LR again.
But the game was balanced as fuck, so whateveeeeeeer.
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On April 11 2013 19:56 Dandel Ion wrote:I already said I won't use LR again. But the game was balanced as fuck, so whateveeeeeeer.
You mean Palmar/Ace/Marv/Sci town?
yeah. balanced.
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On April 11 2013 20:07 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 19:56 Dandel Ion wrote:I already said I won't use LR again. But the game was balanced as fuck, so whateveeeeeeer. You mean Palmar/Ace/Marv/Sci town? yeah. balanced.
I think this game proved how little stock to put in ideas like that. Marv was dancing to scums tune and you almost mislynched sciberbia.
Look how much foolishness and Ver did in Personality 2.
I am happy that Dandel Doesn't balance around vets. It's a retarded idea.
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On April 11 2013 20:10 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 20:07 Oatsmaster wrote:On April 11 2013 19:56 Dandel Ion wrote:I already said I won't use LR again. But the game was balanced as fuck, so whateveeeeeeer. You mean Palmar/Ace/Marv/Sci town? yeah. balanced. I think this game proved how little stock to put in ideas like that. Marv was dancing to scums tune and you almost mislynched sciberbia. Look how much foolishness and Ver did in Personality 2. I am happy that Dandel Doesn't balance around vets. It's a retarded idea.
The point of this is that our team had very little thread influence(Not activity based, like skill based), like marv HAD to push wrong lynches for us to win. All of us cant spearhead a lynch, we need someone to take our ideas and kill dudes with it.
Which takes a lot of power out scum's hands again, which I didnt like.
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On April 11 2013 20:18 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 20:10 DarthPunk wrote:On April 11 2013 20:07 Oatsmaster wrote:On April 11 2013 19:56 Dandel Ion wrote:I already said I won't use LR again. But the game was balanced as fuck, so whateveeeeeeer. You mean Palmar/Ace/Marv/Sci town? yeah. balanced. I think this game proved how little stock to put in ideas like that. Marv was dancing to scums tune and you almost mislynched sciberbia. Look how much foolishness and Ver did in Personality 2. I am happy that Dandel Doesn't balance around vets. It's a retarded idea. The point of this is that our team had very little thread influence(Not activity based, like skill based), like marv HAD to push wrong lynches for us to win. All of us cant spearhead a lynch, we need someone to take our ideas and kill dudes with it. Which takes a lot of power out scum's hands again, which I didnt like.
yeah oats is completely right here. 3 mafia were dead by the middle of day 3. not even because the mafia themselves individually played badly or anything, but none of them have any thread impact to control things.
Despite mistakes from townies like me and Palmar (wos/sci early, ace/oats) it didn't even matter one bit because there were lots of other townies with good ideas.
This game shows precisely why teams need to be balanced, not the opposite, DP.
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On April 11 2013 20:18 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 20:10 DarthPunk wrote:On April 11 2013 20:07 Oatsmaster wrote:On April 11 2013 19:56 Dandel Ion wrote:I already said I won't use LR again. But the game was balanced as fuck, so whateveeeeeeer. You mean Palmar/Ace/Marv/Sci town? yeah. balanced. I think this game proved how little stock to put in ideas like that. Marv was dancing to scums tune and you almost mislynched sciberbia. Look how much foolishness and Ver did in Personality 2. I am happy that Dandel Doesn't balance around vets. It's a retarded idea. The point of this is that our team had very little thread influence(Not activity based, like skill based), like marv HAD to push wrong lynches for us to win. All of us cant spearhead a lynch, we need someone to take our ideas and kill dudes with it. Which takes a lot of power out scum's hands again, which I didnt like.
how is that town's problem
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he never said it was town's problem.
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I'm strongly in favor of true RNG.
I don't think you can argue that scum played as well as town in this game. Good scumplay is defined per the win condition as not dying. All 3 scum died. It's not like it's not within their power to not die. If they had all played the towniest games of their lives they would surely have won. Not saying it's easy but I'm saying the better team won.
Mafia is a team game. As long as the setup is such that the better team will usually win that is fair in my book.
In most team games you can make fair teams for every game but a key feature of mafia is that knowing who is on your team ruins the game. I think it takes away a lot of the spirit of the game if marv knows going in that either palmar or ace must be scum.
edit: another reason I don't like it is that it puts newer players at a completely unfair disadvantage. All the vets know what teams would be considered balanced but newer players may not.
It also unfairly advantages players who personally know the host and what he would be likely to do.
imo it is much more fun to try to figure out whether someone is scum by analyzing their filter and interactions with other players than playing guess-what-the-host-thought-would-be-fun.
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Also instant majority made it really hard for scum, especially on day 1.
Somehow Axle got lynched for basically the lulz and since he was scum, lotta dudes with lotta town cred.
Me and tunkeg COULD NOT STOP IT/we werent even in the thread.
I think all the games with random switches on to scum have worked out really well for town. And the instant majority made it easy for that to happen.
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On April 11 2013 20:35 sciberbia wrote:
I'm strongly in favor of true RNG.
I don't think you can argue that scum played as well as town in this game. Good scumplay is defined per the win condition as not dying. All 3 scum died. It's not like it's not within their power to not die. If they had all played the towniest games of their lives they would surely have won. Not saying it's easy but I'm saying the better team won.
Mafia is a team game. As long as the setup is such that the better team will usually win that is fair in my book.
In most team games you can make fair teams for every game but a key feature of mafia is that knowing who is on your team ruins the game. I think it takes away a lot of the spirit of the game if marv knows going in that either palmar or ace must be scum.
edit: another reason I don't like it is that it puts newer players at a completely unfair disadvantage. All the vets know what teams would be considered balanced but newer players may not.
It also unfairly advantages players who personally know the host and what he would be likely to do.
imo it is much more fun to try to figure out whether someone is scum by analyzing their filter and interactions with other players than playing guess-what-the-host-thought-would-be-fun.
The thing is, games arent like that. No one ever gets lynched for 'BALANCE REASONS THIS GUY IS SCUM'. There is always the main element of analyzing filters and shit like that.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
On April 11 2013 20:35 sciberbia wrote:
I'm strongly in favor of true RNG.
I don't think you can argue that scum played as well as town in this game. Good scumplay is defined per the win condition as not dying. All 3 scum died. It's not like it's not within their power to not die. If they had all played the towniest games of their lives they would surely have won. Not saying it's easy but I'm saying the better team won.
Mafia is a team game. As long as the setup is such that the better team will usually win that is fair in my book.
In most team games you can make fair teams for every game but a key feature of mafia is that knowing who is on your team ruins the game. I think it takes away a lot of the spirit of the game if marv knows going in that either palmar or ace must be scum.
edit: another reason I don't like it is that it puts newer players at a completely unfair disadvantage. All the vets know what teams would be considered balanced but newer players may not.
It also unfairly advantages players who personally know the host and what he would be likely to do.
imo it is much more fun to try to figure out whether someone is scum by analyzing their filter and interactions with other players than playing guess-what-the-host-thought-would-be-fun.
Just a terrible argument all round really. Extreme example: you put 6 chess grandmasters against 6 amateurs. Chess is a game of complete information, so as long as each team has 3 whites and 3 blacks, the match is completely balanced. But of course it isn't, because experience and ability plays a large factor, and the grandmasters will win every time.
Much the same in this particular setup; I bet if you ran a simulation of this game 100 times, this town team would at least 80% of the time. Town ran over mafia despite Palmar and I pushing 2 wrong lynches day 1 and despite the fact i was hard defending a mafia. Almost things couldn't have gone worse for town this game and yet it was still totally one-sided.
I'm sure this game was "fun" for town with its totally RNG element, but realistically mafia didn't really have a chance. It's a simple fact that mafia teams need people with thread impact.
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On April 11 2013 20:53 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 20:35 sciberbia wrote:
I'm strongly in favor of true RNG.
I don't think you can argue that scum played as well as town in this game. Good scumplay is defined per the win condition as not dying. All 3 scum died. It's not like it's not within their power to not die. If they had all played the towniest games of their lives they would surely have won. Not saying it's easy but I'm saying the better team won.
Mafia is a team game. As long as the setup is such that the better team will usually win that is fair in my book.
In most team games you can make fair teams for every game but a key feature of mafia is that knowing who is on your team ruins the game. I think it takes away a lot of the spirit of the game if marv knows going in that either palmar or ace must be scum.
edit: another reason I don't like it is that it puts newer players at a completely unfair disadvantage. All the vets know what teams would be considered balanced but newer players may not.
It also unfairly advantages players who personally know the host and what he would be likely to do.
imo it is much more fun to try to figure out whether someone is scum by analyzing their filter and interactions with other players than playing guess-what-the-host-thought-would-be-fun. The thing is, games arent like that. No one ever gets lynched for 'BALANCE REASONS THIS GUY IS SCUM'. There is always the main element of analyzing filters and shit like that.
That actually happens all the time.
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United Kingdom36160 Posts
On April 11 2013 21:02 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 20:53 Oatsmaster wrote:On April 11 2013 20:35 sciberbia wrote:
I'm strongly in favor of true RNG.
I don't think you can argue that scum played as well as town in this game. Good scumplay is defined per the win condition as not dying. All 3 scum died. It's not like it's not within their power to not die. If they had all played the towniest games of their lives they would surely have won. Not saying it's easy but I'm saying the better team won.
Mafia is a team game. As long as the setup is such that the better team will usually win that is fair in my book.
In most team games you can make fair teams for every game but a key feature of mafia is that knowing who is on your team ruins the game. I think it takes away a lot of the spirit of the game if marv knows going in that either palmar or ace must be scum.
edit: another reason I don't like it is that it puts newer players at a completely unfair disadvantage. All the vets know what teams would be considered balanced but newer players may not.
It also unfairly advantages players who personally know the host and what he would be likely to do.
imo it is much more fun to try to figure out whether someone is scum by analyzing their filter and interactions with other players than playing guess-what-the-host-thought-would-be-fun. The thing is, games arent like that. No one ever gets lynched for 'BALANCE REASONS THIS GUY IS SCUM'. There is always the main element of analyzing filters and shit like that. That actually happens all the time.
no it doesn't.
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On April 11 2013 21:02 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 20:53 Oatsmaster wrote:On April 11 2013 20:35 sciberbia wrote:
I'm strongly in favor of true RNG.
I don't think you can argue that scum played as well as town in this game. Good scumplay is defined per the win condition as not dying. All 3 scum died. It's not like it's not within their power to not die. If they had all played the towniest games of their lives they would surely have won. Not saying it's easy but I'm saying the better team won.
Mafia is a team game. As long as the setup is such that the better team will usually win that is fair in my book.
In most team games you can make fair teams for every game but a key feature of mafia is that knowing who is on your team ruins the game. I think it takes away a lot of the spirit of the game if marv knows going in that either palmar or ace must be scum.
edit: another reason I don't like it is that it puts newer players at a completely unfair disadvantage. All the vets know what teams would be considered balanced but newer players may not.
It also unfairly advantages players who personally know the host and what he would be likely to do.
imo it is much more fun to try to figure out whether someone is scum by analyzing their filter and interactions with other players than playing guess-what-the-host-thought-would-be-fun. The thing is, games arent like that. No one ever gets lynched for 'BALANCE REASONS THIS GUY IS SCUM'. There is always the main element of analyzing filters and shit like that. That actually happens all the time.
No. People say that, but no one ever gets lynched off that only.
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On April 11 2013 20:53 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2013 20:35 sciberbia wrote:
I'm strongly in favor of true RNG.
I don't think you can argue that scum played as well as town in this game. Good scumplay is defined per the win condition as not dying. All 3 scum died. It's not like it's not within their power to not die. If they had all played the towniest games of their lives they would surely have won. Not saying it's easy but I'm saying the better team won.
Mafia is a team game. As long as the setup is such that the better team will usually win that is fair in my book.
In most team games you can make fair teams for every game but a key feature of mafia is that knowing who is on your team ruins the game. I think it takes away a lot of the spirit of the game if marv knows going in that either palmar or ace must be scum.
edit: another reason I don't like it is that it puts newer players at a completely unfair disadvantage. All the vets know what teams would be considered balanced but newer players may not.
It also unfairly advantages players who personally know the host and what he would be likely to do.
imo it is much more fun to try to figure out whether someone is scum by analyzing their filter and interactions with other players than playing guess-what-the-host-thought-would-be-fun. The thing is, games arent like that. No one ever gets lynched for 'BALANCE REASONS THIS GUY IS SCUM'. There is always the main element of analyzing filters and shit like that.
In the last game I played Prom said he figured that I was scum partly because I had to be for the game to be balanced.
Also I barely followed Hero Mini but I looked at the player list at lylo and judging from the player list and the flips concluded marv was probably scum. In Palmar's video for that game he cited balance reasons as a probable motivation for bug's actions (to be fair I think he was wrong, but the fact he said that balance affected Palmar's thought process and therefore the game).
Like it definitely factors into how some people view the game.
i grant there are pros and cons to balancing but imo the cons outweigh the pros.
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EPT
