EPTPlayer list looks interesting, not the usual faces I play with.
TL Mafia LXI
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yamato77
11589 Posts
Player list looks interesting, not the usual faces I play with. | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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Lol, nevermind. | ||
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yamato77
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/confirm | ||
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yamato77
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On April 20 2013 13:56 Ace wrote: *looks at player list* *shakes head in a bored way knowing he will lynch Bill Murray with ease Day 1* That is probably a good play regardless of the alignment of either of you. | ||
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yamato77
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Thoughts? | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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yamato77
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Maybe you are a good person to kill. | ||
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yamato77
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Hope you guys don't mind. | ||
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yamato77
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On April 22 2013 02:34 VisceraEyes wrote: Defend against what? Why can't he have a townread on Palmar and know he's not going to be active as town and sheep a townread? I'm going to be in Vegas for 4 days next weekend and I'll be playing in a similar fashion (if I live that long) and I'm town, that seems feasible enough. Has he said he's not going to be active? He's here now and you're not asking him anything. You're whole reasoning is bullshit. Palmar, what do you make of this? | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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On April 22 2013 09:27 Palmar wrote: VE is to me one of the easiest people to read in this game. Not worried enough about him to spend time wondering about stuff like that. yeah, I guess. It was just something odd I noticed from the earlier posts. | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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But meh, aside from that, most of the people posting right now seem town enough. People that HAVE irked me so far include CC, VE, and Oats. BM is also sketch for his claim thing. He "soft claimed" last game, too, and was mafia. This could be the same sort of play. | ||
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yamato77
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On April 22 2013 11:58 kushm4sta wrote: Is yamato super scummy or is it just me? I mean I know he has some sort of IRL excuse (which I dont recall reading about myself actually) but dear lord he is scummy. He "doesn't like" that a noob is being a noob... WTF does that mean? Then he lists off some easy targets who haven't been here and say they "irk" him. Then BM is sketch. these words are very wishy washy. Also his comment on BM is really dumb reasoning compared to his usual town reasoning. TLDR, no conviction behind anything yamato Look up a dictionary and tell me where "sketch" and "irk" imply indecisiveness and I'll take this post seriously. | ||
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yamato77
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On April 22 2013 12:13 kushm4sta wrote: In the context of forum mafia they do. what do they imply? Suspicious activity has been detected in the vicinity of the Oats/CC/VE/BM area. Proceed with caution. | ||
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yamato77
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If this response isn't what you were looking for, I really don't care. | ||
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yamato77
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On April 22 2013 12:39 Ace wrote: I'm also interested in seeing an explanation so repeating this for emphasis. Yamato I get a wishy washy vibe from you too based on that post. Are you just dropping a FOS or do you think they are legit Scum candidates? Could add Ace to the list for this post where he echoes thread sentiment for no good reason after not posting for forever. | ||
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yamato77
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On April 22 2013 12:51 Ace wrote: If they aren't posting then what the hell are you looking into? It's called "the waiting game". | ||
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yamato77
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On April 22 2013 12:56 Ace wrote: so instead of looking at the people currently here, you're waiting for lurkers? awesome plan you got there. I already said I think most of the people posting (Rayn, Sharrant, Giygas) seem town. You, on the other hand, are worth looking at. | ||
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yamato77
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On April 22 2013 12:57 getmoript wrote: You aren't posting either. What are we supposed to make of that? You said in hydra iirc that as scum you're blatantly obvious as scum. If you're town why not engage us? Everything you've posted so far is blah and you're 'pressure' on your 'targets' is non-existent. Why those four? If I'm not obviscum, then don't worry about it. | ||
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yamato77
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On April 22 2013 06:23 Ace wrote: Palmar what do you think our main plans of action should be right now? Besides what seems like posturing and prodding by some people, I think waiting on Bill Murray to get back is our best option. Agree/Disagree/Don't Care? Seems like you wanted to do the same thing, Ace. Wait and see. On April 22 2013 08:09 Ace wrote: newbie and null. Not interested in lynching anyone specific at the moment. I'm just sitting back reading and will see what happens. You apparently aren't even interested in the game enough to have reads worth mentioning. On April 22 2013 12:39 Ace wrote: I'm also interested in seeing an explanation so repeating this for emphasis. Yamato I get a wishy washy vibe from you too based on that post. Are you just dropping a FOS or do you think they are legit Scum candidates? But yet you seem to like +1ing posts that imply suspicion on people On April 22 2013 05:09 Ace wrote: +1 to ObviousOne's post + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2013 05:03 ObviousOne wrote: This is true enough, though one wonders about the motivation for even saying the name. It's not outside the realm of possibility that he wanted to nudge the town causing millers to claim. Doesn't tell me if he is town or scum, either; he could be fishing for mafia to rise to the bait and miller claim as well. Discussion went (without his explicit aid) towards lynching all miller claims and that theoretical concept was shut down. Why don't we just ask him if he's claiming miller and move on until he comes back? His activity in Boardwalk was mostly in the late evening/early morning hours (EST), so we'll see what he has to say about it when he comes back. In the mean time, ShiaoPi why did you want to kill Bill Murray as your first game post? It doesn't exactly jive with your previous post in the pre-game. Explain please. So even more so than me, you don't seem to care what the thread is doing, don't want to talk about reads, and seem content waiting on one person to explain his claim in order to do ANYTHING today. But you're content with your +1 of suspicion on me while repeating the same drivel the people that have already spoken have said. I'd kill Ace. Forreal. ##Vote Ace | ||
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yamato77
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On April 22 2013 12:59 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Ugh, all I've got are feel reads. I wouldn't mind lynching me a Hopeless or Giygas (idc how you spell it) today. No reasoning given, just the feels. Hard evidence is difficult to come by unless I'm purposely trying to lynch townies as mafia t.t /complain. I feel like sharrant is town, for the record. Ray is probably town. Yamato I'm disappointed hasn't been shouting at people so I could easily discern his alignment, but unfortunately he has just been threatening to kill people. Icantbelievehesnullbro. Shiaopi i think would be a decent target as well. Could someone just yell at me in all caps so I feel like I'm being pressured? Like seriously it's how I get my best reads -- on those who pressure me. The last time you made a post like this, you were mafia. Mafia CC, folks. Mafia. | ||
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yamato77
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On April 22 2013 13:07 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: And the time before that I was town. Town CC, folks. Town. Are for the record, I caught you as mafia when you tunneled me. WHAT ARE YOU AFRAID OF Even if I was mafia, I would not be afraid of you. | ||
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yamato77
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On April 22 2013 13:10 Ace wrote: I'm a pretty patient fellow. I'm interested in the game - I just don't post my reads every second of the day. That's pretty much my standard operating procedure. Seems like your entire case is me not throwing around suspicions but instead, asking people to clarify stuff other people have pointed out. How is that scummy again? You're calling me scummy for the same thing, bro. | ||
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yamato77
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On April 22 2013 13:51 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Its day 1, id expect to not get those from me at this juncture. Yamato is likely scum, BM should be lynched or vigi'd. If drH doesn't appear within the next 12 hoursish he is almost deff scum. No, you're mafia! | ||
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yamato77
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By that I mean identify the whole team. Or, at least, the 5 people I'm most suspicious of at that time. | ||
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yamato77
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##Unvote ##Vote VisceraEyes | ||
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yamato77
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Ace is lynchable because his reasoning for throwing suspicion on me is ass and he's been posting bullshit the entire game. BC is nullish, despite my earlier proclamation. He could have made that post as either alignment. More information is necessary to lynch him. CC is too quiet to be town CC. His "tunnel me" charade is a copycat from Nomination where he replaced in day 1. His shitty null reads are also indicative of him being mafia; town CC calls people mafia and gives no fucks about being wrong. And VE is mafia because his reasoning for being suspicious of me is ass, just like Ace. Only VE is even worse because he should know better. Unfortunately, however, a VE that blindly follows thread sentiment is a scum VE. Lynch him. | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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That would be pretty funny. | ||
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yamato77
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CC I'm less sure of. This whole BC/Ace dynamic is suspect in general. Really, I'm not trying to stop from getting lynched. Just leaving behind my reads for when I die. | ||
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yamato77
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On April 23 2013 07:38 Vivax wrote: Where's your enthusiasm, boy. You said Oats could be scum earlier. Is he your scumbuddy or what. For once, Vivax, you're actually questioning the right things. But look into your heart, and know Oats is mafia. | ||
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yamato77
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I'd rather kill VE, though, for saying he's trying when he admits his vote is pure OMGUS shit. | ||
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yamato77
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I know, it's funny when I point out you actually typed those things, isn't it? | ||
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yamato77
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1) Tell everyone how bad they are. 2) Call one of them mafia. 3) Bully other people out of their good reads, 4) Tell everyone how good you are. 5) Complain about town being bad, again. 6) Subtly follow thread sentiment while acting like you actually have a good reason for finding someone mafia. 7) Call someone else bad. 8) Get lynched anyway (this is the part I need help on, bros) | ||
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yamato77
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On April 23 2013 07:56 Bill Murray wrote: 1) give me one reason 2) give me one good reason 3) maybe you could do both It would be nice to know who you're talking to. | ||
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yamato77
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Damn. | ||
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yamato77
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You know. But hey, I'm trying pretty hard to get lynched this game. | ||
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yamato77
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On April 23 2013 08:06 Vivax wrote: You just don't make any sense. You said you wanted to lynch Oats earlier. There's a pretty awesome case against him on the previous page. You come back ignoring it and spouting some weird nonsense about ace and BC, acting all emo and saying insane sounding things, joining BM in a ridiculous spamfest. I was looking for a circus poster to post while watching the thread grow from your posts like cancer. I was on Oats before that case was posted. Like I said, he should definitely be lynched. I mean, it's all in mobilizing town. That isn't going to come from me. town gives zero fucks about what I say. | ||
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yamato77
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On April 23 2013 08:06 Bill Murray wrote: Maybe you know if you'd quit thinking typing like this = town; make a case; work on your thread image, etc. The same could be said for you, bro. Why do you not care about what town thinks? Yeah. | ||
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yamato77
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On April 23 2013 08:14 VisceraEyes wrote: Saying you think Oats should be lynched, then voting for VE, calling BC and Ace mafia, then casing Ace, then trying to convince someone that built a case on Oats that he should be voting for Oats in spite of the fact that he's already voting for Oats....does not count as you trying to get Oats lynched I'm afraid. I never said I was trying particularly hard to gets Oats lynched. Right now it's like, PR and stuff. | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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On April 23 2013 08:17 VisceraEyes wrote: My point is, if you really feel like Oats is the lynch today, and that you're "still pretty sure" about your read, then why AREN'T you doing more to try and get him lynched? Instead of, you know, try and get ME lynched? Or BC/Ace? Like, you keep saying "Hey I was on Oats before that other case there" but what does that matter when you're ACTIVELY trying to get people who AREN'T Oats lynched? There's more than one mafia, and I'm trying to find them. People think I'm mafia, I have to make sure that somehow they reach the correct conclusion. | ||
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yamato77
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yamato77
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On April 23 2013 01:31 VisceraEyes wrote: I want to lynch BM. His antagonistic response to BC is too telling - reminds me of when he was protecting me in Boardwalk from the jackals. Yamato looks bad too, I never like the excuse "Oh well you know my posting was INTENTIONALLY bad". ##Vote: Bill Murray What is important here isn't just that he's slapping a vote down with such little thought, it's that he also slyly slips in that he'd be willing to lynch me as well, with reasoning that conflicts with his own earlier analysis of my posting. Early in the game, he clearly understood that I wasn't putting in effort for some reason, and reached the correct conclusion that I was sheeping Palmar out of a town read on him. So why does he suddenly not understand that some early posts, and indeed some of the latter ones, are truly just trolling? It seems like he's fabricating a reason to vote me after earlier having defended me, and I see no clear line of reasoning that caused the move. On April 23 2013 03:51 VisceraEyes wrote: But OO! FEELS! Lynch BM! But he's on this BM thing pretty hard, and that's whatever. Notably, however, when he has screamed "lynch this dude", it's mafia VE. On April 23 2013 05:04 VisceraEyes wrote: I'll kill yamato sure. And when he does this; sheeping town sentiment while yelling that someone else is scum; it's always mafia VE. It's the scumtell of absolute certainty. On April 23 2013 06:26 VisceraEyes wrote: Palmar stop voting me baddie. Vote yamato because he agrees with you. So he's all like "Yo, this dude is mafia for no good reason, and I'm not voting him, but you totally should. Waiting for King Palmar to move his vote before I will do anything as to look like I'm doing it for a good reason." On April 23 2013 06:39 VisceraEyes wrote: My vote on yamato is completely OMGUS. I look into both candidates and provide my own thoughts directly. Total lies. I pointed this out earlier, but it's also contradictory to his later statement: On April 23 2013 07:15 VisceraEyes wrote: Said the kettle. I'm inactive, but clearly trying. Look again. OMGUS is not trying. VE that doesn't try is mafia. Mafia VE. | ||
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yamato77
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Totally good scumhunting, and works so well every game. | ||
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yamato77
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On April 23 2013 08:45 VisceraEyes wrote: So is making a case against someone that is NOT the person you're trying to convince others to lynch! HEYO!!! I'm totally all about lynching you today, bro. It's the theme of today. | ||
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yamato77
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On April 23 2013 08:46 yamato77 wrote: I'm totally all about lynching you today, bro. It's the theme of today. Furthermore, my vote is on you, LOLOLOLOL. | ||
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yamato77
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I know you're salty that I catch you every game. It's okay. | ||
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yamato77
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LET'S LYNCH VE I'm totally a bad lynch, and you'll save yourselves the moaning and groaning about my play this game if you just lynch mafia instead of me. | ||
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yamato77
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On April 23 2013 08:56 TheRavensName wrote: Actually I would say if we lynched you we wouldn't have to worry about your play at all.  Does that men if VE gets lynched your actually going to try or is this something were only going to get out of you every time your in danger? (Still suspicious of the sudden burst of activity and serriousness by the way)I'll probably put in more effort this game if you lynch VE than if you lynch me, yes. Can't promise anything, though. | ||
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yamato77
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On April 23 2013 08:59 VisceraEyes wrote: I don't even fear you when I AM mafia yamato why would I fear you when I'm not? Get a grip son. Rofl. | ||
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On April 23 2013 09:11 Bill Murray wrote: I kind of disagree, WOS ^ I feel like his case is subjective, where it's largely meta based, and that's the reason I agree with it. I don't feel like he has much objectivity with it... in fact, he keeps saying he's going to be trying to catch the entire team, but I have only seen him tunneling, in general... sorry to overgeneralize i'll try to be more specific... he's beating a dead horse Do you want me to talk about someone other than VE? I could talk about BC | ||
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yamato77
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On April 23 2013 09:12 VisceraEyes wrote: Hey guys you wanna know why Palmar thinks I'm scum? Number of pages in my filter. Period. Just ask him, he'll tell you. On the other hand, yamato "thinks I'm scum" because of the case he just posted. Go read it for yourself and ask yourself the following question after every point he makes, because he doesn't do so himself: "Can I imagine a scenario where townVE would do this same thing?" Because I got news for you guys: I would and did. I'll respond to yamato's case specifically if his wagon goes anywhere, but suffice to say that there are several misrepresentations present in his case and he never once tries to figure out if I'm town or scum - only assumes I'm scum and invents a narrative that supports it. Invents a narrative? Your posts are the narrative. I invented nothing. I provided valuable commentary on 100% scumtells. A VE that does what you did is scum. | ||
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yamato77
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On April 23 2013 09:14 Bill Murray wrote: Don't talk about: BC, Oats, Me, Vivax, kushm4sta (or anyone else deterring your wagon) talk about: Ace (not his interaction with bc, though), Palmar, lurkers (preferably people you wouldn't expect to be lurking... for me, dr.h) Well, there are 3 replacements being called for. Not gonna try to divine alignment from people that aren't playing. Ace is a tricky one. The case I posted earlier before his interaction with BC was kinda bad, but I don't understand how he developed a scum read on me whatsoever. | ||
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yamato77
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On April 23 2013 09:18 Ace wrote: but you've got no credibility yamato. If VE is scum - tough shit. You've played bad enough that your words carry no weight and screaming about it isn't moving the needle towards his lynch. Stop trying to derail the wagon and at least vote for Oats. I've repeatedly said I would lynch Oats. But I'm less sure of him than I am of VE. And yes, I'm fully aware of my current situation and how I got here, thank you. | ||
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On April 23 2013 09:25 Ace wrote: ##vote Oatsmaster Think he's the better lynch looking at Vivax's list. Too many people prefer Oats but haven't changed to it so I will do so. yamato just being useless, eventual vigi bait. I am not being useless, lol. Just because I don't listen to you does not make me a good vigi shot. | ||
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yamato77
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On April 23 2013 09:29 VisceraEyes wrote: Maybe the shit you give me stings more cause I like you.  Whatever, the point is that I'm clearly trying to find scum and you're like ignoring that fact. Also yamato looks scummy as shit and you're throwing in your lot with him. Palmar-Thats-Never-Wrong is a friend and I miss him. Why don't you see if you can conjure that dude up? You still have yet to justify your suspicion of me beyond one sentence. | ||
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yamato77
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I'm pretty sure he's town. Why do you think otherwise? | ||
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yamato77
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Vote VE. | ||
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yamato77
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Yeah, kill him. | ||
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yamato77
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On April 23 2013 09:55 Oatsmaster wrote: Why now and not in 24 hours(arbitrary number that sounds good) Why let you live when you show no indication of scumhunting? | ||
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yamato77
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On April 23 2013 10:00 Oatsmaster wrote: Why let you near a computer? How does fast hammering help town if I flip town? What does drawing this out do but let you post more dumb posts in the thread? | ||
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yamato77
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I'm liking a VE lynch more and more. On April 23 2013 10:02 VisceraEyes wrote: Word that. ##Unvote ##Vote: Oatsmaster Why the sudden vote? Since when is he suspicious of Oats? | ||
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yamato77
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Forgive me for finding it inadequate. | ||
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yamato77
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On April 23 2013 12:22 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Either way, I'm tired. The amount of spam in the thread related to yamato / oats being dumb is astounding... just lynch one of them so I can have a little concrete information to work with going into tomorrow. This is a totes scummy post. Maybe if I play a little more anti-town I'll be confirmed town :D This shit is ridiculously stupid. I could lynch you just for this post. | ||
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yamato77
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Much rather revive the VE lynch wagon. | ||
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yamato77
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I'll let you guys decide. | ||
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yamato77
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On April 22 2013 13:45 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Mafia is a game about finding mafia not town + waiting on lurkers for more reads? How about you analyze whos already here. Also still catching up but this is the single worst post ive seen to this point of reading When I look at people who have voted me, this ranks near the bottom of the list in terms of logically justifiable reasoning. Finding town is just as much a part of this game as is finding mafia. The two are mutually inclusive. This post, in contrast to his assertion, was the scummiest thing in the thread. The fact that people buy this shit just because it agreed with whatever suspicion they had on me is ludicrous. "How about you analyze who is already there?" My very next post, which I basically spelled out in this post, was my analysis of Ace. It's not even true; it's complete bullshit. Yet notably, this is the ONLY reason he gives for voting me, ever. Observe: On April 23 2013 04:55 BloodyC0bbler wrote: The guy Im voting for? You know, the one I called out for having the single most scumtastic post in the thread? On April 23 2013 05:03 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I also called him scum before that and he has still the single worst post in the thread. Good attempt though Having established that his read on me is absolute horse shit, we move on to his other reads in the game: On April 22 2013 13:51 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Its day 1, id expect to not get those from me at this juncture. Yamato is likely scum, BM should be lynched or vigi'd. If drH doesn't appear within the next 12 hoursish he is almost deff scum. Why is BM scum? No good reason. Anyone thinking should be able to tell that he's town. The "miller claim" thing is a non-issue and was overblown. Dr. H is scum why? For being inactive? What the fuck is that rationale? I guess it's easy to throw shit at people that won't respond. On April 23 2013 04:46 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Simple, its setting up a situation in which a miller can claim to get himself not lynched. Guess what? if you are someone who gets red checks on you, you get lynched or shot. If I claim self aware miller and town accepts it, whats to stop mafia from doing it once? Whats to stop them from doing it period and hope to god a ton of other people don't claim? If you accept bullshit claims like that then it auto confirms people for no reason other than players are stupid. If you are someone who gets a red check when checked you die. Why does a town player having the opinion that millers should claim mean that they are mafia? Just because you think it's "pro-mafia" (wrongly) does that make the person in question mafia? BC is a good enough player to know better than that, no? Yet the majority of the rest of his filter is devoted to arguing this point with OO, cementing the ides that OO likely believes what he's saying as opposed to just bringing up the idea so his mafia buddies could claim miller without a second thought. But yet BC insists, and that's the MAJORITY of his contribution to the game. Not meaningful analysis of people's posts, but bullshit about miller claims. Observe: On April 23 2013 05:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Hes good enough to know better. He dropped the opinion in a giant wall of useless text, and used it as a way to marginally work in a reason to vote for you. Given that it is an absolutely wrong opinion, and one that only a scum could stand behind to lynch someone (unless hes extremely bad) he must be scum. On April 23 2013 05:30 BloodyC0bbler wrote: What reason does town have to make to ever claim miller? Seriously, tell me. All it does is clusterfuck a thread and leaves open ground for mafia to claim as well and thus be cleared as town as he claimed miller. Assume all miller claims are bullshit and kill. If you get red checked you get killed. Its pretty simple. You lynch people who are likely mafia. Town has no reason to ever claim miller EVEN IF THEY KNOW THEY ARE ONE. As all it does is create chaos. IE only mafia have a benefit to claim it thus should be lynched. As for extremely bad? Sorry I've seen you play. You aren't that bad and should be able to follow the logic I just outlined. Its straightforward and extremely basic. On April 23 2013 05:42 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Role counts aren't known though so its a moot point. In a role counts game you can have the entire game mass claim and anywhere number of claims differ from whats listed you lynch/vig into thus forcing mafia to hide in the vanilla's or lose. All these posts come at a time when there was plenty to talk about besides this claim, yet he perpetuated this useless discussion, and has since disappeared while town fawned over lynching me and Oats. So what happened if both Oats and I are town? The mafia don't care which one dies, since we're both town and seem similar. BC being inactive is a product of how little interest he has in actually finding mafia, because he already knows who they are. Furthermore, where is the curiosity in his reads? He's CONVINCED that I am mafia from one post taken out of context (something he argues against in his own filter, saying that looking at posts out of context is retarded). He's CONVINCED that OO is mafia, simply because he argues that millers claiming should be allowed. Why has everyone let him skate by? Just because he wanted to lynch me? Where is his response to my newer contributions? What does he think about Oats, VE, ANYTHING? He doesn't care enough to tell us. Even when he has been active, his responses are shallow and focused on irrelevant things like debate over POLICY LYNCHES. LYNCH THE COBBLER! | ||
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yamato77
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On April 23 2013 23:34 kushm4sta wrote: yamato why are you playing so different this game? like no long cases I just posted my third case of the game. | ||
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On April 23 2013 23:56 Palmar wrote: BC's town meta is to be awful at day 1, then get lynched. I'd like to not lynch him later. VE is still scum. Then why are you voting Oats? I'd rather just kill the BC. | ||
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yamato77
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On April 23 2013 23:56 Palmar wrote: BC's town meta is to be awful at day 1, then get lynched. I'd like to not lynch him later. VE is still scum. Furthermore, letting BC skate by through day 1 just because he's awful as town even on day 1 is bullshit. I lynch mafia, and BC is mafia. | ||
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yamato77
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Kthnxbye. | ||
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yamato77
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Because the reasoning of us being mafia is largely bullshit, and confirmation bias about our contributions this game being survival based are bullshit? Why is Oats posting more when he's about to die a trait that is exclusively reserved for mafia? Do town just want to get lynched without putting up a fight? The assumption is a bad one. | ||
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On April 24 2013 00:03 Sylencia wrote: Yet you actually provide something for us to go off in comparison to Oats. I'm fairly confident he's not mafia based on the fact that Oats' wagon encounters ZERO resistance up to this point, and the fact that his posting lately IS more what I expect out of town Oats. Just because people don't necessarily play up to your expectation of the ideal state of the game does not mean you lynch them, if you want to win. I want to win. I'm willing to let Oats be silly, so long as I believe he's town. | ||
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yamato77
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I did not do that early on, so people wanted to lynch me, and rightly so. Now I'm doing that, and even if people don't agree with me, they find it hard to want to lynch me. Why is that? | ||
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On April 24 2013 00:08 ShiaoPi wrote: The question is much more why the fuck is he being silly if he is town? Because he's always that way as town? | ||
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On April 24 2013 00:08 Vivax wrote: Scummy: Yamato, clarity, Semi-Scummy: Palmar, WoS, OO, BM, ShiaoPi Null: BC, Rayn, Hopeless, VE Townie: Everyone else No medic for me if Oats flips red, thx. Maybe you scum. | ||
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LYNCH BC WITH ME. IT'S THE WAGON OF RIGHTEOUS JUSTICE. LET YOUR NEW EMPEROR REIGN. | ||
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I WILL SAVE YOU LYNCH THE COBBLER FUCK PALMAR | ||
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On April 24 2013 00:13 Sylencia wrote: If you're at L-1, you provide whatever reads you have. Look at his list of reads from this morning. Out of the 4 scum "reads" he has listed, 3 of them I believe were "I feel like they are scum" or "because someone has to be scum". It's bare minimal, counterproductive for if he does flip green, and nothing else he has said has really been of any content. It's not like I hold a high standard for what is good play and what people should be doing, I'm horrible myself for that situation, but what use is it if Oats is not giving us anything when others ask? All I ask for is even just 1 or 2 reads with some explanation other than feel based reads. You can't just apply a blanket statement that someone is mafia for not complying to your wishes. You have to judge people relative to their usual play as either alignment or you will lose. | ||
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On April 24 2013 00:14 ShiaoPi wrote: Aaand off he goes ##vote: Oatsmaster You mafia too? Wtf. | ||
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Fuck your bad lynches. | ||
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On April 24 2013 00:13 Clarity_nl wrote: You think BC saying "post scumreads not townreads" is scummy? Did you read my case? Or the thread? What the fuck? | ||
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HE'S NOT MAFIA | ||
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On April 24 2013 00:23 Clarity_nl wrote: I read your case, there are some reasons that bc might be scum, but not strong ones. I was asking the question because that was what you started your case off with, it makes no sense so I asked about it. Will you answer? Also is oats hammered or not? I thought he was at 12 with shiao now He's calling me scum for saying in one post that I had town reads on people when I had been giving plenty of mafia reads before and after. In other words, it's a bullshit out of context reason for voting me that was and has been his only justification. | ||
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On April 24 2013 00:24 Vivax wrote: That's cause you looked at my votecount, which isn't correct.  You forgot CC. ROFL. | ||
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And why did Vivax apparently post an intentionally misleading votecount? And why did people not listen to me and not hammer Oats? And why did Clarity apparently not care that town was lynching someone he didn't want to lynch? And why did no one decide to listen to the only person who gave a fuck about who we were lynching yesterday? uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh | ||
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On April 24 2013 04:33 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I am aroundish till 9ish tonight, gone from then till sometime mid thursday afternoon, gone friday morning, gone sat morning and likely all saturday if plans stay as they are, gone sunday morning possibly afternoon/evening. I am busy. Nor should I have to be around to tell people how to make obvious choices. Yamato has done sweet fuck all. He trolled, spewed anti town shite, and only "contributed" when he was close to death. He calls oats scum then blindly comes out of no where and says he doesn't want to off him, says he wants to off ve for voting oats (which was thread sentiment) then attacks me blindly as well. He has done nothing productive. He has done basically nothing useful. The lynch on him vanished for no reason than oats was brought up as a lynch on shitty reasons. Towns need to realize how to step back and think about situations. I've made cases on 3 dudes, 2 of which are very likely mafia. What have you done again? Call me mafia for ONE POST? Lol, no. You're the mafia here, bro. | ||
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On April 24 2013 04:53 Clarity_nl wrote: I didn't not want to lynch him either. It didn't feel right but as hopeless pointed out in the face of dying he was just still being trolly.... you don't do that as town.. Yamato why were you so certain that oats was town, I think you were the only one. It wasn't that you were explaining how he was a bad lynch, you were saying HE IS TOWN OMG IDIOTS. What made you so sure? I posted what made me sure. The lynch was all kinds of wrong, and there was a strong feeling of town Oats coming from his posts. He didn't seem scared to die, he seemed genuine. People got so mad that he was acting silly when they were foaming at the mouth over him when, in reality, that's exactly how Oats plays in any game. But no, let's ignore me, my perfectly good analysis on BC, and let him try to tell people how to play this game from his pulpit of laziness. | ||
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Seriously look at this game. The only argument there USED TO BE against me is that I "wasn't contributing" or whatever, when now, I've contributed more meaningful analysis than almost anyone in the game. Look at BC's filter for yourselves and be amazed at the complete lack of "give-a-shit" you see in his scumhunting. Realize that I'm his ONLY scum read OF THE ENTIRE GAME. Stop listening to him. If Ace is going to be blind to BC, then he might well be mafia, too, for all I know, but don't let them bully you into voting me when the obvious proof is in front of you. | ||
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On April 24 2013 05:07 BloodyC0bbler wrote: You do realize I've done this exact same thing the last few games I was town? You know, called people out for being mafia via 1 post or general post sentiment. Guess what? ive been shot for it every time and been right for it. Now obviously I could end up being wrong about you. However you have done nothing to sway me in any way that I am wrong in my read. You are not playing in any way I can see that a townie would play in. I will give you credit though, Ace is likely not town. However he is also not likely mafia. And only scum read? Ive listed others. Good try though. You are the only one im pushing You took my post out of context and used it to justify a bullshit push of me as a lynch candidate. That is not good scumhunting, and I will not allow it in my town. | ||
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NEWSFLASH There's a reason I didn't get lynched. It's because town realized that I'm town. LOLOL. | ||
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Your only other scum read is OO, and that's solely based off of his policy stance. ROFL, YEAH, YOU SCUMHUNT GOOD | ||
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On April 24 2013 05:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: Based on what if i may ask? The fact that he refused to take a real stance on me/Oats and made an "original" case on Sharrant. | ||
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On April 24 2013 05:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: Assuming you are town you know you are town. Oats was town. Those were the two wagons there were at the time. Why would in your opinion mafia!Clarity make a case on Sharrant and not agree with BC/Vivax on the cases (like many other people did)? How is it more beneficial to him, because he know he will be questioned about it? Why not just take an easy way out and vote for one of the townie candidates? Because perhaps he felt it would look "scummy" if he came in and just plopped his vote down on me/Oats, knowing we are both town, when he's been un-involved the whole game. He potentially looks better by "scumhunting" with his case, which has been picked apart endlessly since it was posted. I feel that a town player would more likely than not take a stance on me/Oats, even if it was to say that we were likely town/likely mafia, and then case someone else. Clarity just sort of ignored the both of us, and didn't do a whole lot else. | ||
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The timing and context of it is. | ||
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If anyone is "lynchbait", it's that dude. | ||
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Just for kicks, I'll give you my own subjective analysis of the filter of Sharrant and see what conclusions I can reach about his alignment. | ||
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You seem to be convinced that he's mafia, yet your treatment of Clarity for his case and the way you ask questions about him is very odd. All in all, I'm more likely to think you're mafia out of this than Sharrant. I'm pretty sure Sharrant is town. | ||
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On April 22 2013 06:35 raynpelikoneet wrote: About Sharrant. Sharrant accuses TRN of things. The case in itself is not scummy and i could see someone seeing TRN's posts in that light, i just don't get the same feeling from TRN's posts. Having played with him on NMXXXIX, i can tell that he has no idea how to act in the start of the game. Here he seems to be trying to figure out things and share his thoughts about stuff he is asked about. Fine, why is Sharrant scummy? - He's discussing the "policy lynch BM" matter but does not reach any kind of a conclusion that points towards this particular situation. - Asks TRN about his last games. It's not TRN's job to find those games to him. It's Sharrant's job to find out TRN's affiliation and TRN wasting time on telling him about his last games is a waste of time that does not help TRN find mafia. Seems like Sharrant is lazy and does not want to find out things on his own. Townies should not do that. This section is particularly telling to me. Your entire play up until this point had been about "policy lynching BM" because you THOUGHT he claimed miller, which was a dumb enough idea anyway. Then, you come up with this read, and that's how this whole thing started. NOW I understand, the read of Sharrant is complete fabrication. Yeah, you're mafia. | ||
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His read on geript seems genuine. Despite the claim, he finds geript scummy, but can't lynch him because of the sentiment that he's town for the host interaction. I like his read on you and how he handled it. I like how he interacted with BM, it seemed honest and a real product of frustration. He also has a scumread on Hopeless. I haven't personally looked at Hopeless, but that's another point in his favor. In the time he has been here, I like Sharrant's contributions, even if he may be wrong about some things. | ||
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On April 24 2013 17:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: Also can you tell me what's irrelevant in this: All of that is petty arguing and has nothing to do with anyone's alignment but yours. | ||
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On April 24 2013 17:36 raynpelikoneet wrote: So agreeing with your scumread on something they say without checking it out is totally what townies usually do. And letting your scumread drive the discussion when you talk with him about reads on other people is totally what townies do. I'm kinda puzzled, how do you play this game? None of that matters at all. | ||
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On April 24 2013 17:35 Ace wrote: ??? If Sharrant is Scum and TRN isn't then what other conclusion is he going to make? Like seriously, I'd be interested to know because there aren't many. The part in red is just ridiculous. Furthermore, I've seen plenty of mafia tunnel an unpopular scumread to look original. Happens all the time. I rarely see mafia back down from an early read, and even if they do, I even more rarely actually say that person is likely town and close the door on lynching them. That's not a mafia mentality. The part in red is not ridiculous when we're discussing the NUMBER OF SHARRANTS READS. No matter whether I agree with him or not, his read on Hopeless seems genuine and not bullshit. | ||
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On April 24 2013 17:39 Ace wrote: and like an idiot you just made some bullshit up. How does the read Sharrant gave "in his position" nullify a Scum read? If you're going to make statements at least qualify them with some context. What are you talking about? I never said anything about "nullifying a scum read". Ace, what the fuck? | ||
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BC Rayn VE CC mafia? | ||
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On April 24 2013 17:41 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why exactly? Those are pretty scummy things imo. IMO, they aren't. They don't matter at all. They're fabrications. | ||
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Your read on Sharrant is entirely fabricated. | ||
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On April 24 2013 17:48 Ace wrote: nullifying a scum read = seeing Sharrant as Town from now on. I've given plenty of reasons I see Sharrant as town. Don't be mad that I'm going to fuck up your potential mislynch for tomorrow. | ||
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On April 24 2013 17:47 Ace wrote: Ok, and I've seen plenty of mafia players back off their original reads to look like they aren't tunneling. Good, now that we've got the made up hypotheticals out of the way lets get back to this game. You stated that if Sharrant was Scum, him calling TRN town eventually in his current position doesn't make sense. What position was Sharrant in? Was he in danger of being lynched? No - so how can you really glean anything from what he says about TRN's alignment at the moment? Your post screams you automatically assumed his alignment is Town and then worked backwards. If you don't know Sharrant's alignment your entire example fails hard. Making a case on hopeless1nder doesn't mean anything. I mean you didn't even point out what about the case was rock solid, you just said "yea that's a point in his favor". That's utter bs. I did none of that. You're making shit up. Lol, Ace. | ||
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I mean, a good mafia team would have figured out by now that I'm not the kind of person you accuse. Mislynching me is difficult. | ||
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If you're town, Ace, we need to lynch BC tomorrow. | ||
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2) A mafia player in Sharrant's position would not make the read change he did. He's not under suspicion, so why is he worried about how he looks necessarily? And why does looking like you're tunneled mean you're mafia? It doesn't. It makes no sense for mafia Sharrant to call TRN off the cuff like that after casing him at the beginning. It does make sense as town, however, as he processes new information and evaluates his reads. Far more likely that he's town for that than mafia. 3) When I look at Sharrant's filter, his contributions are many. He's obviously trying, and he's not even someone I consider a particularly good player. Contrast that with BC, and his contributions, and you'll see how I get nearly all of my reads. I don't expect much from Sharrant, but what he has put forth exceeds those expectations. I expect much more from BC, but what he's put forth wouldn't even be acceptable from Kushmasta. Do you understand now? If you're town, it's pretty fucking obvious that I'm town. I'm basically the only person who gives enough of a fuck about this game to make sure we're lynching actual mafia. You might just be confirmation biased or whatever, since I don't know what to expect from you as a player, but my gut tells me you're mafia. You seem intent on slandering my name to the thread and shooting down my perfectly good analysis at every turn. So if you're town, address my case on BC. Do you think he's trying this game? Do you think the one post out of context with the reasoning he gives is an acceptable level of effort put forth into finding mafia for the day? Even if you think I'm mafia, don't you think it's a little suspicious that he's been unable to provide any solid analysis of anyone's posting that wasn't about policy? Where's his real case on me, if I'm the mafia here? I daresay I'm the most involved player left in this game. What does that say about my alignment? Why aren't you doubting your scum read on me if you're town? I just have so many questions, and I don't think you have all the answers. | ||
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On April 24 2013 18:35 Vivax wrote: @ Rayn I might be speaking for Sharrant here, but large part of his case was founded on the fact that you defensively said: You want to lynch BM cause he's mafia, not for policy, but all the while saying that you lynch all claimed millers in earlier posts, there is no reason for BM being mafia, just policy. And as I might add, we didn't know at that point if BM claimed, so your attack looked bad on multiple fronts. @ Yamato Your 5-man-scumteam seems weird, it seems focused on people who are rather at the center of attention, and you've become really spammy and seemingly nervous once contrasted by ace. How are we supposed to know what ShiaoPi, tube, Drazak, stutters and hopeless are, for example? More information digging, less quick decisions please. I'm not deciding anything. I'm working with my reads. Listing a bunch of lurkers means nothing to me. And stop telling me how to play. You're like, the biggest hypocrite of all time. | ||
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BC is only at the center of attention because of me. CC and VE aren't even being talked about, which is a crime. | ||
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Now it's 5 AM and I still haven't slept. Hopefully someone else with a brain can come in and set the record straight while I sleep. | ||
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It's eery how much he agrees with me. | ||
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I always love those. | ||
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On April 25 2013 05:57 TheRavensName wrote: I'm a little confused how VE's play is any different than say Oats? IT seems to boil down to the same things. It isn't the same things, and VE is a better player than Oats. But yeah, I'm lynching my dear friend Eyes, because he be mafiosi. | ||
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On April 25 2013 06:19 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Yamato, never reads me correctly in any game ever. /thread When I think you're mafia, you're town. When I'm not entirely sure, but you seem town, you're mafia. You're in the second category. In other news, lynch your scumbuddy VE with me? | ||
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On April 25 2013 06:32 Palmar wrote: infuriating you would be an improvement over what you've currently brought to the thread. I'll echo this sentiment. | ||
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On April 25 2013 07:12 ObviousOne wrote: K while VE figures out how to schedule some quality time with us I want to hear about ShiaoPi reads. Go. That quality time is never going to happen. Just a helpful from your friendly neighborhood scumkiller. | ||
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I know exactly what I'm doing. | ||
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On April 25 2013 09:22 VisceraEyes wrote: Actually you don't, your vote is on town and you're acting like a dickhole. Please reconsider your tactics. This isn't an order, it's a request. Sheeping dead Vivax is not going to convince me that you're town. I mean, you're in a bad position here, because yesterday you moved your vote from town to town without any second thoughts, and barely justified it. If you are town, I'm surprised. | ||
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I'm seeing some of that this game, but not much. I will say, if I'm wrong about you/Ace/BC, my wanting to lynch the fuck out of Palmar would rise unimaginably. | ||
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On April 25 2013 10:44 VisceraEyes wrote: Dude I wasn't even IN RTP? Are you talking about the hydra game? Hydra, yeah, whatever. I'm tired. | ||
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On April 25 2013 10:49 Ace wrote: yamato wants to lynch us because we're popular. Go figure. Actually I'm starting to just think you're bad. | ||
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On April 25 2013 10:51 Ace wrote: good. Now do something about it. You're one of the worst posters in this thread and people are just too scared to get rid of you. You have been absolute trash. I have made 3 cases against my suspects this game. Right or wrong, I am not playing like trash. I might be spammy, but if that bothers you, I really don't care. | ||
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Who is up for lynching the Cobbler? Why or why not? | ||
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Where the fuck do you get "low activity" from? Lol. | ||
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WOW, I forgot all about that bullshit. I could lynch him just for that. | ||
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<3 | ||
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On April 24 2013 00:08 ShiaoPi wrote: The question is much more why the fuck is he being silly if he is town? On April 24 2013 00:13 ShiaoPi wrote: Fuck it I am hammering oats now On April 24 2013 00:14 ShiaoPi wrote: Aaand off he goes ##vote: Oatsmaster Zero mention of Oats before this and absolutely no indication that you thought he was scummy. You hammering him looks more like a mafia finding a reason to lynch town than a town reaching a tipping point of frustration with Oats like you would have us believe. Yeah, you die for this. Sorry. | ||
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I'd say you should look at BC, VE, and ShaioPi to make a lynch decision, if you can't find reasonable suspicion of someone else. Though if you think VE is town, we might want to lynch Palmar. Like, a lot. A lot, a lot. | ||
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The explanation of night actions that we know of is complicated, given that we have 1 role block unaccounted for and 1 KP unaccounted for. I will discuss here the relevant possibilities of all of the combination of events that could have led to the situation we are at now and discuss the likelihood of each event. 1) Palmar is role blocked by town JK and shot, and Vivax is shot, while scum JK either goes unused or was used on a scum player who did not claim it. I feel like this is not very likely. Scum would want to jail offensively, because they have no chance of blocking town KP on themselves or on another town. If true, however, Palmar is confirmed town. 2) Vivax was double-stacked and jailed, and Palmar was jailed by town. Palmar's alignment is unknown, but scum deny town a ton of information, as we see. RB+KP combo is a common mafia tactic for this reason. The variation that semi-confirms Palmar would be if town JK protected Vivax and scum offensively jailed Palmar, and Vivax was still double stacked. That feels more unlikely than the former. 3) Scum double stacked Vivax, role blocked Palmar, and town JK'd offensively and hit mafia, but they didn't claim. I feel this is unlikely, because a role block claim on N1 is a soft town claim, and town JK should be defensive N1 because you can't stop KP. 4) Scum KP was on Vivax and an Vet or SK/SP, who didn't claim being hit, scum JK went unused/used on mafia or was double stacked on Palmar with town JK. Town vet has no reason not to claim, as scum already know from claims that they are vet and can die tonight. Claiming might actually help keep confirmed town alive. Third party are fucked for this rationale, but would have claimed vet with the shot, I believe. This seems unlikely, based on claims so far. So unless there are claims of shots taken or role blocks notified that have yet to be made, it is either 1 or 2, with 2 being more likely in my opinion. Combined with Palmar's somewhat disinterested play, and his insistence that VE is mafia throughout the game while consenting to some of town's wagons, this makes me believe he might be mafia. Perhaps this is the truth even if VE is mafia, as Palmar's "push" of him feels weak, and the VE lynch has been successfully resisted twice now. Regardless of VE's alignment, then, Palmar should be looked upon with some degree of suspicion. I'd consider lynching him today. | ||
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In that case, ignore all of that. | ||
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Or Vivax was doublestacked, which feels unlikely. | ||
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On April 26 2013 00:22 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I guess so eh. I feel like BC is scummy. I have no idea why people think BM is town, however. BM was pretty town yesterday. BC is very scummy, as I've been saying since D1. The possibility of double stack Vivax is somewhat likely, now that I keep thinking about it. He was basically confirmed town on everyone's lists. Scum could have reasonably thought he could be protected. But if that's true, last night's actions have almost no bearing on Palmar's alignment. So maybe it's better to just ignore them altogether, in which case, I still say Palmar is reasonably suspicious based on his relative lack of effort in pushing his lynches. | ||
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Shaio is easy to mislynch, as evidenced by the suspicion on him in day 2 of British Empire 1, also an instant lynch where he was lurkish, and eventually replaced. The worst part of his filter is the hammer sequence, but even that could be explained by overly eager town who got caught up in the game emotionally. Clarity is always inactive, and him being fixated on Sharrant is not alignment indicative. His case is objectively something that scum like to do, but in the context of the game, I can see a town Clarity who had a late start feeling the need to get his thoughts about the game on the table, even if they weren't about the main lynch candidates. The fact that he basically has no other reads in the game is a point in his favor, but just like VE, we can afford to play a waiting game with him, seeing as we have unlimited time. At the very least, we need real discussion about the alignments of Ace/BC/Palmar before we move forward with any lynch. Ace is the most town out of the three, and BC the least, in my eyes. I'd say a long day is in order, and town need to consolidate pressure upon just a few people so that we can determine their alignments more clearly. | ||
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For once, I'm actually attempting to add some positive vibes to it. | ||
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On April 26 2013 00:41 Hopeless1der wrote: Contrary to popular opinion, reading the OP is actually a good skill toi have I already knew that. None of my analysis says that town JK should jail offensively. It says the opposite. But yeah, thanks for your stellar contribution and reading comprehension. How about some analysis of the alignment of the player I was discussing in that post? | ||
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On April 26 2013 00:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I like the idea of keeping it to Ace/BC/Palmar. Given that scum shot at Vivax rather than any of the vets, it seems they don't want to thin out that field. Even when they don't look particularly town they can still solve the game so keeping them alive is a big risk. That risk probably isn't taken for no reason, especially with the instant majority system allowing for long days. Precisely a good point. So what do you think about them? Let me know when you're caught up. | ||
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On April 26 2013 00:42 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: @Yamato I feel like Ace could be scum via some association bullshit later in the game. For someone who is super godly at this game (or something like that) I figure he would have been the center of discussion. Some things come off scummy others seem kinda towny. He's a fairly null read tbh in the grand scheme of things which sucks. I also know apparently he's good at mafia which makes me further paranoid about him. Not a good lynch, forever null. BC is mafia because he spen the entirety of D1 throwing shit at people ("You are scum for what I bolded"). He also only took a really strong stance against you, which I think is wrong right about now. I have very similar sentiments about Ace, but just the fact that he seems RELATIVELY town when compared to most of the game makes me feel like he's not a good lynch for a while. BC, though, I've seen be a negative force in many towns, acting superior and being a dick. What I haven't seen is him being lazy enough with his scum reads that he fails to properly justify them. A good bit of his filter is also devoted to policy lynch discussion about the miller claim thing, which is disturbing. I feel like a look st his filter from Personality 2 might give me some insight into his alignment, as he was town shot N1 in that game. I don't particularly remember much of it, as the game was such a blur of spam. | ||
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On April 26 2013 02:12 ObviousOne wrote: Nothing in his filter says he's town to me. Skating by on Vet cred when no Vets are dead. He's been an anti-town presence when he's around. His scumhunting consists of calling yamato and me scum as far as I can see. He's a bully. Not interested in a positive town atmosphere. Some of this is clearly rectifiable and his activity will not clear him necessarily as much as him making sense and being productive. I want him to feel the fire under his ass and to know that vets will never be allowed to be useless when I'm around. I am yamato, and I endorse this message. | ||
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Mafia double stacking Vivax is not out of the question, in my opinion. But as was said, Palmar is perhaps a lynch better left for another day. Today we should lynch someone like the Cobbler. | ||
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I'm fully okay with lynching him now. When I have time, I will respond fully. | ||
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On April 26 2013 05:34 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Ok lets move into the land of posting. First off let me ask you all a question as you have been active this day. For all the "scum" reads I have garnered why is it only a single player has even pushed an analysis of any sort on me? This is coming from someone I pushed day 1, Yamato. Since then I have see others share the sentiment of BC must be scum. 0 reasons have followed aside from activity. My activity that I stated straight out that I was not going to be around for. Now we have someone like Yamato claiming we should kill me before I return to avoid ruining town atmosphere meanwhile he has spent the day floundering over his reads, then telling people we should lynch into the ace/palmar/BC pool. Guess what? read his filter for this current day. Find me him pushing anyone on analysis. Show me him trying to consolidate the town on any central lynch. He suggests names then changes them. The only constant is me but he never just pushes me. He is still not actively pushing me. Why? If i am his #1 scum read this game he would be trying to push my death faster and surer than anything else he has done this game day. Instead? He just mentions my name. Read his filter. End of page 5 and on. Tell me where he gives an analysis post or solid read that is based on any substance. Tell me where he tries to prove my original statement of him being scum wrong. He has done absolutely nothing but attempt to blend into the crowd while calling names? Why? Because if I get lynched then he follows me to death as hes pushing for a death on a townie. He knows damn well that he will get shot / lynched on my flip thus is not pushing for my death. He also mentions we should lynch into the me / ace / palmar group. He never does a solid method of analysis on either just blanket says we should lynch into this group to find scum. Why isn't he attempting to help? Because he knows there are misslynches in there and does not want the fallback on his own head. Why if he also believes ace could be scum why no analysis on ace? Why is the only post on palmar being red a WIFOM argument. Why does he have a vote on VE if he wants me dead of all people? Simple. Yamato is scum. So I'm catching up in the thread, but I stopped here to specifically respond to this case, because while I can tell from a skim if the rest if the game that it is unsuccessful in pushing for my lynch, it has been successful in attacking my image to the thread, which is absolute bullshit. VE, in particular, is sheeping the FUCK out of town sentiment today, especially when it regards me, so he's definitely mafia, but I'll talk more about that later. In THIS post, we have a few accusations, all of which I can reasonably explain with a simple lack of understanding. While my gut reaction to someone misrepresenting my posts and my agenda today this horribly is to call them mafia, this sort of confirmation bias induced look at my alignment is more likely to come from town. I think BC is just wrong here, and unable to realize it because his experience with playing with me is little. When I said I didn't want us to let BC come in the thread and shit on the atmosphere, I was not advocating killing him off before he had time to respond. I was advocating either ignoring his inflammatory posting or responding to it with solid explanations or analysis. If you managed to accurately read my posts from today, I very clearly said that I did not want to rush today's lynch. That brings up my next point. I've been accused of waffling around with my reads and not pushing any one lynch. As for BC, I genuinely believed him mafia and a negative presence in the town atmosphere, and was pushing for his lynch based on analysis that I made yesterday, which he had done nothing to change. He hadn't posted anything worth analyzing until this post. As for Shiao/Clarity, I have yet to see what they've done today, but what they did yesterday/last night was not enough for me to want to rush their lynches, and that is exactly what I was saying in the post where I supposedly contradicted myself. I consider the possibility that they are town who are bad, because it is always a possibility, even if it is not a likelihood. Thus, there is no reason to shorten our day and rush a lynch when we have infinite time, and they have hardly had time to make a response to the thread. VE I was obviously wrong to doubt my read on. He is mafia, just from what I have read, but I'll get to that later today. The accusation that I haven't done analysis of filters is inaccurate, in that I had certainly analysed the filters of VE, Palmar, and BC in context and given my thoughts about each. Palmar I specifically said seemed disinterested to me, based on his posting. I have cases on VE and BC, and will have an updated one on VE. To attack me for this is to show you aren't reading my posts very closely. I asked for other's opinions on them to see what other people read in Ace/BC, because I am not familiar with either of them. Perhaps the only thing you can truly accuse me of is doubting my reads and not pushing for a consolidated lynch, but how exactly does that make me mafia? I didn't want to lynch 24 hours into the day, so we discussed our reads at the time and tried to draw more thought-out conclusions. What mafia motivation is there for that? You think I don't want to be responsible for a lynch? Do you really think that my outspoken nature is one that kinds itself to blending in? No. I own my reads, and I had perfectly good reason to doubt them. Now, if you're going to lynch me, you're going to have to come up with a lot better reasons than that. Seriously reconsider what you think about my play, because it's obvious to me that some of you are looking at me with extreme confirmation bias. But, at the very least, I think this is somewhat difficult to imitate as mafia, so from here on out, I'll treat with you as if you're town, because treating you like mafia isn't going to help anything. | ||
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On April 27 2013 06:36 VisceraEyes wrote: /facepalm Why did you go from "why did I ever doubt you" to thinking I'm certain mafia just from BC posting this case? | ||
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On April 27 2013 06:40 VisceraEyes wrote: I didn't? Close enough: On April 26 2013 01:30 VisceraEyes wrote: @yamato: I'm sorry I ever doubted you @Sharrant: That's a good case too. :/ Consider me reconsidering my read. @Palmar: I've never seen you push for my lynch so weakly. You claim I'm SO easy to read - if that's the case and you think I'm mafia, you're failing to get me lynched. townPalmar doesn't fail to get VE lynched. Sorry, just my experience. You can eat rope. @OO: You're a bro, and mostly I agree with you - people voting me with little/no reasoning are very suspicious. However I'm afraid I'm biased in that particular case (obviously). And frankly, I'm well aware that I'm generally an active poster and my D1/N1 looked lacking. Right now the only person that fits that description that I would consider voting for is Palmar. @All Right now my lynch preference is thusly ShiaoPi>Palmar>Clarity Town read on me. On April 26 2013 07:50 VisceraEyes wrote: How about "I'm waiting to hear from yamato before commenting"? You know....exactly what it says? Before I said I would respond. Reasonable, somewhat. On April 27 2013 00:33 VisceraEyes wrote: The thing is, Yamato DID say "I'll respond to this when I have time" So I mean, what you say may be true, but what Yamato says could be construed as doing exactly what you say. It's subjective. We really need him to respond to the case. This chain of quotes from you is suspicious as fuck. You want to be suspicious of me before I even fucking respond. On April 27 2013 05:44 VisceraEyes wrote: I would attest that he's already responded insanely badly. Fuck you, you're mafia. | ||
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On April 27 2013 06:40 Artanis[Xp] wrote: VE isn't scum Yamato. He's giving too much of a shit this game and has actually been beneficial to town atmosphere. How about his inconsistent bullshit read of me? Yes, he's mafia. | ||
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On April 27 2013 06:51 VisceraEyes wrote: No, I wanted you to respond. Period. Now you have. Now stop saying "Fuck you". Lol, and then you wanted to tell BC I had responded! Total bullshit, VE. | ||
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On April 27 2013 06:54 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Except he never said he wanted you dead, he said he wanted you to reply. This makes him scum how? Read his posts and what he's saying in the last two posts, and what each implies. VE is certainly ready and willing to sheep BC if he makes a push for my lynch, regardless of whether I respond or not. | ||
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On April 27 2013 06:55 VisceraEyes wrote: IT WAS A FUCKING JOKE YAMATO BASED ON THE FACT THAT YOU SAID NOTHING BUT "BC CASE IS TOTAL BULLSHIT" FUCKING STAAAAP It was a joke? Really, that's your response? I guess I can't argue with that explanation, can I? | ||
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On April 27 2013 06:59 Ace wrote: no prob VE. I just think you're on the wrong path with respect to Shiao. But lynching Clarity and viging yamato looks like a real option right now. Why do people act like I should be vigged? If you can't push for my lynch, stop saying dumb bullshit. | ||
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On April 27 2013 07:00 getmoript wrote: Go take a break. You're tunneling hardcore man. Reading this thread just pisses me off. | ||
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On April 27 2013 07:03 VisceraEyes wrote: But beware: if you do, you're SCUM! <3 yamato It's only to point out his complete lack of effort in analyzing my posting. | ||
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On April 27 2013 07:06 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I recognize i am not ace. However I would hazard a guess its this. By focusing on the wagons and clearing them of the mafia on them you end up with a list of confirmed or semi confirmed players as town. IE it does two things at once. BC, what do you say to my response? Since you're obviously here, reading. | ||
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On April 27 2013 07:08 WaveofShadow wrote: You guys are heading into preflip assumption territory and its not good. Yeah, they're being bad. Ignore it. | ||
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On April 27 2013 07:10 VisceraEyes wrote: You know you're accusing BC of shitting all over town atmosphere yamato. JUST SAYIN. I'm no longer accusing BC of anything. I'm just saying, this voting analysis of wagons is inconclusive at best. Mafia vote for mafia, town vote for town, and his list of "confirmed" players may not even be accurate, lol. | ||
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On April 27 2013 07:12 WaveofShadow wrote: Well to be fair I didn't exactly agree with your tunneling of VE. Who is your lynch of choice atm? Clarity/Shiao or someone else and why? Let me filter them and finish rereading the thread. | ||
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On April 27 2013 07:13 Ace wrote: didnt you promise cases vs BC and VE? if you were town wouldnt you go write them instead of arguing about shit that doesn't matter? You're not even reading my posts. Why do people think you're town? | ||
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On April 27 2013 09:28 Ace wrote: Celtics and Knicks game started so my activity gonna die down. Dont forget about yamato. He is gone once again while we talk about other stuff. Above all else he should be vigi target #1 tonight. Ugh. | ||
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I feel like if he were this AFK, a scumteam would just bus him for the cred. | ||
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I mean, they're pretty much the same fucking lynch, IMO. Both are lurky, both have done almost nothing this entire game. I would lynch Clarity over Shiao, but I'd prefer we lynch someone who I can actually be confident is mafia, hah. | ||
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On April 27 2013 12:25 VisceraEyes wrote: I guess I just wonder who that might be. Palmar has done more to get me lynched than you have if it's me which is pretty pathetic considering the copious amount of dick he's done in general. Like I said before, this has bothered me most of today. | ||
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On April 27 2013 12:45 Palmar wrote: I am a butterfly! Well, it's your birthday, apparently. I can't lynch a guy on his birthday. | ||
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On April 27 2013 02:35 ShiaoPi wrote: Well, that took a lot of time to read. Not so sure about whom to lynch now with tube getting modkilled (lol btw!). I also have very limited time during the entire weekend, which is obviously gimping me by quite a bit as I while only be able to drop by shortly during the evening/late night before I sleep. I am currently torn between clarity and VE. Going with VE for now because I think it is a good idea to sheep Palmar. Go figure. ##vote: VE If there are no direct questions to me in the next couple of minutes I'll be off to bed until I can come back on tomorrow at about the same time as right now. Much has been said about this entrance, but it was horrible, for a number of reasons. While it can be reasonably assumed that he is actually busy, the amount of this post used to excuse his own inactivity is mind-blowing. He has no original thought about the game, and doesn't seem to care about giving us any valid reasons for voting for VE outside of Palmar's lackluster efforts in pushing for the lynch. And then there's the bolded, his "reaction" to the tube modkill, that sets something off in my head. It seems unnatural and forced to go "(lol btw!)" in the middle of this post. I'd be happy with lynching him, if we feel we need to consolidate on a lynch. I've advocated playing a waiting game, but I saw it mentioned that we've only really talked about lynching between him/Clarity today, and I agree, so perhaps it is best if we move on. Another thing I thought to look at was the WHOLE votecount from day 1, not just the Oats wagon: On April 23 2013 13:25 iamperfection wrote: ~~~ Vote Count! ~~~ Oatsmaster: Hopeless1der: Bill Murray: Getmoript: TheRavensName: Raynpelikoneet: Sharrant, Sylencia, Hopeless1der, Ace: Sharrant: Yamato: VisceraEyes: GiygaS: Drazek: Bill Murray (1) Remember, this Day ends when a majority is reached. As soon as a majority is reached, please stop posting until the Night Post has been posted. Only votes in the voting thread will be counted! The voting thread can be found here: (link) With 25 alive it takes 13 votes to lynch. There are some changes to this: On April 23 2013 15:54 Bill Murray wrote: ##unvote drazak ##vote: yamato On April 23 2013 21:39 Hopeless1der wrote: ##Unvote: raynpelikoneet ##Vote: Oatsmaster On April 23 2013 23:30 yamato77 wrote: ##Unvote Oatsmaster ##Vote VisceraEyes On April 23 2013 23:57 yamato77 wrote: ##Unvote VE ##Vote BloodyCobbler On April 23 2013 23:58 Sylencia wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Oats On April 24 2013 00:13 ShiaoPi wrote: ##vote: Oatsmaster So the votecount itself is somewhat difficult to analyse, seeing as most people were either on me or Oats, but the people on Rayn do seem out of place, and it is even more weird that two of them managed to get themselves on to Oats before his lynch; Sylencia and Hopeless. Also note that Shiao's only vote of the whole day was the hammer on Oats. And people want to say that it isn't scummy? Yeah, no. But as before, there were multiple vote changes inbetween, and they are worth looking into. To begin why did Sylencia decide to change to Oats? On April 23 2013 23:58 Sylencia wrote: Oats is the vote for me. Case from Vivax + aftermath between yamato vs Oats has convinced me more to taking down Oats. The thing that was holding me back most was that my primary scum suspect (rayn) was on Oats fairly early on. However: Given that Oats never actually provided anything for us in terms of reads afterwards and posted crap about being green and telling people to push others. If he has nothing to say either: a) He's playing as the bad townie b) He's withholding that info from us to stop us from gaining more than we need from the lynch. Either case is bad for town, so that's why I'm willing to go down on Oats. ##Unvote ##Vote Oats Seems more of a case for voting for "bad town" than scum, which seems like a slip of a scum mindset, in my opinion. Why? Because it is something I run into as scum, how to formulate a read on a town player and call them scum so I can vote for them. Most of the time, it is "bad town" that get mislynched, so the difference becomes vague. Justifying a vote by saying that someone is "bad for town" is an easy scum out, because town players can and will be anti-town on many occasions. Yet this is Sylencia's mindset, and how he justifies the vote on Oats. Just from this voting analysis, I feel he might be mafia. I have yet to analyse his filter in totality, but given this, I will definitely give it a look. On April 23 2013 21:39 Hopeless1der wrote: Vivax where did your unofficial count come from it looks wonky... in any case, this should be L-1 on Oats ##Unvote: raynpelikoneet ##Vote: Oatsmaster Hopeless. + Show Spoiler + Get it? Anyway, this is Wonder's SECOND EVER mention of Oatsmaster, and the first one where he gives any inclination of thinking him mafia. AMAZING! HOW DID HE REACH THIS SECRET CONCLUSION?!?!?! On April 23 2013 22:37 Hopeless1der wrote: I think you're too trolly in the face of dieing to be town. I'm not even certain you have a scum read on anyone at all. You've provided next to nothing. A shitty list post where your strongest scum read is "well someone has to be scum, why not Ace". gtfo. Wow. I'm not saying this is totally regurgitation of other people's arguments, but it is. This also come AFTER his vote, where he's fully aware that he's putting Oats one vote away from lynch. And then guess what happens... I unvote (temporarily delaying the lynch), Sylencia manages to vote AND: On April 24 2013 00:14 ShiaoPi wrote: Aaand off he goes ##vote: Oatsmaster The hammer! This all happens within the span of ~2 hours, mind you, when I'm screaming at the thread not to lynch Oats. Say what you want about me, but all three of these votes are particularly HORRID, and all of them are either switches off Rayn (a wagon that seems inherently scummy, in that people that switched off it didn't seem to change their read on him much) or the player's first vote of the game. Is there a chance they are town? Sure. I'd probably say Sylencia has the most chance to be town, since when compared to the other two, his vote looks the MOST explained, despite the fishy nature of the post. The other two, however, give very little indication that they think Oats is mafia before they vote, and the hammer in particular looks like TEXTBOOK MAFIA trying to find a good reason to just lynch a town. Notably, I did something JUST like this day 1 of British Empire 1 (also instant majority), where I fabricated suspicion of a town-created wagon on a town player and managed to hammer him for the lynch. Only this is even worse, and more obvious, because they didn't even manage to look like they thought about it before obviously putting Oats in danger of, and actually being lynch. That's VCA done right, bros. And from it, I find the willingness to lynch the fuck out of Shiapi, because this is bullshit. No matter how much post-hoc justification he gives, there is only mafia motivation to be seen in what he has done. | ||
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yamato77
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proceed to win game GG | ||
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Vigi Ace for obvibus on Clarity | ||
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On April 28 2013 07:05 Sharrant wrote: Yamato, do you have any desire whatsoever to lynch Ace? Lots of desire, very serious. Will talk at length later, not at home. Viging me is fine, since I will flip town and people will stop being dumb about what I say anyway. | ||
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By no means do I believe this flip eliminates the possibility that anyone who voted for Clarity is mafia. As before, I will continue to judge people not for WHAT they did, as anyone can do anything, but for HOW and WHY they did it. I suggest most of you do the same before running off the cliff with your association cases, a la Boardwalk lategame. | ||
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If you think me calling him mafia is a "scum claim", I think you're sorely mistaken. | ||
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Looks pretty bad. | ||
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Because Ace is a dumbass? | ||
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I guess I have to show you guys just how much he is actually not trustworthy to get you to realize. | ||
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I'm very undecided on how I should view your continued lack of effort in this department, because you seem more than willing to talk about ANYTHING but analysis of my alignment, which I have repeatedly asked for from you and you have repeatedly ignored. I literally can't get past this roadblock in my mind, so you need to step it up. | ||
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On April 28 2013 13:43 Ace wrote: are you dumb? You've promised analysis several times and have not delivered - check appeared on voting wagons where we believe scum to be - check posted a poor post in defense of the clarity lynch trying to derail the bandwagon at the last minute and accuse shiaopi - check + Show Spoiler + On April 27 2013 17:14 yamato77 wrote: So I kind of re-skimmed the thread and looked over what people have said, finally, and this post by Shiao is quite bad: Much has been said about this entrance, but it was horrible, for a number of reasons. While it can be reasonably assumed that he is actually busy, the amount of this post used to excuse his own inactivity is mind-blowing. He has no original thought about the game, and doesn't seem to care about giving us any valid reasons for voting for VE outside of Palmar's lackluster efforts in pushing for the lynch. And then there's the bolded, his "reaction" to the tube modkill, that sets something off in my head. It seems unnatural and forced to go "(lol btw!)" in the middle of this post. I'd be happy with lynching him, if we feel we need to consolidate on a lynch. I've advocated playing a waiting game, but I saw it mentioned that we've only really talked about lynching between him/Clarity today, and I agree, so perhaps it is best if we move on. Another thing I thought to look at was the WHOLE votecount from day 1, not just the Oats wagon: There are some changes to this: So the votecount itself is somewhat difficult to analyse, seeing as most people were either on me or Oats, but the people on Rayn do seem out of place, and it is even more weird that two of them managed to get themselves on to Oats before his lynch; Sylencia and Hopeless. Also note that Shiao's only vote of the whole day was the hammer on Oats. And people want to say that it isn't scummy? Yeah, no. But as before, there were multiple vote changes inbetween, and they are worth looking into. To begin why did Sylencia decide to change to Oats? Seems more of a case for voting for "bad town" than scum, which seems like a slip of a scum mindset, in my opinion. Why? Because it is something I run into as scum, how to formulate a read on a town player and call them scum so I can vote for them. Most of the time, it is "bad town" that get mislynched, so the difference becomes vague. Justifying a vote by saying that someone is "bad for town" is an easy scum out, because town players can and will be anti-town on many occasions. Yet this is Sylencia's mindset, and how he justifies the vote on Oats. Just from this voting analysis, I feel he might be mafia. I have yet to analyse his filter in totality, but given this, I will definitely give it a look. Hopeless. + Show Spoiler + Get it? Anyway, this is Wonder's SECOND EVER mention of Oatsmaster, and the first one where he gives any inclination of thinking him mafia. AMAZING! HOW DID HE REACH THIS SECRET CONCLUSION?!?!?! Wow. I'm not saying this is totally regurgitation of other people's arguments, but it is. This also come AFTER his vote, where he's fully aware that he's putting Oats one vote away from lynch. And then guess what happens... I unvote (temporarily delaying the lynch), Sylencia manages to vote AND: The hammer! This all happens within the span of ~2 hours, mind you, when I'm screaming at the thread not to lynch Oats. Say what you want about me, but all three of these votes are particularly HORRID, and all of them are either switches off Rayn (a wagon that seems inherently scummy, in that people that switched off it didn't seem to change their read on him much) or the player's first vote of the game. Is there a chance they are town? Sure. I'd probably say Sylencia has the most chance to be town, since when compared to the other two, his vote looks the MOST explained, despite the fishy nature of the post. The other two, however, give very little indication that they think Oats is mafia before they vote, and the hammer in particular looks like TEXTBOOK MAFIA trying to find a good reason to just lynch a town. Notably, I did something JUST like this day 1 of British Empire 1 (also instant majority), where I fabricated suspicion of a town-created wagon on a town player and managed to hammer him for the lynch. Only this is even worse, and more obvious, because they didn't even manage to look like they thought about it before obviously putting Oats in danger of, and actually being lynch. That's VCA done right, bros. And from it, I find the willingness to lynch the fuck out of Shiapi, because this is bullshit. No matter how much post-hoc justification he gives, there is only mafia motivation to be seen in what he has done. You clowned around all of day 1, almost got lynched and have shown no effort to step up. You've promised analysis on VE and BC and have failed to deliver. Telling the thread to just give you some more time. Yet you show up to blast ShiaoPi and not do what you promised. You aren't even trying to scumhunt - just throwing accusations at big name players. This apathy and lack of effort, that you yourself promised, shows you aren't focused. If you thought any of us you named were people you wanted lynched you would have made a case by now on us - not a case on ShiaoPi and ignoring clarity completely. GG scum. I've provided almost all of the analysis I have promised, expect analysis of you, so that's a moot point. If you can't find analysis of BC and VE in my filter, you're not reading it. I fucked around PART day 1, sure, whatever. Doesn't make me mafia. I voted on Oats wagon, but guess what? So did you! AND, I was the only person who managed to realize that he was actually town, and tried to NOT get him lynched, so that's a non-issue. Your voting analysis is also shit and proves nothing about anyone, town or scum. I never "defended" Clarity, I simply found SHIAO a better lynch, and I would still stand by my analysis of his posting. Just because Clarity was mafia doesn't mean Shiao isn't. You may be right, I'm not completely focused on this game, but the effort is clearly there. I am here, in the thread, talking about my reads nearly every time I post. YOU are the one calling me mafia every time you post with ZERO fucking analysis to go along with it. Your "reasoning" for finding Clarity a better lynch is laughable. I have no reason to believe you weren't just bussing him for cred you would have lost should he simply be modkilled. I have no reason to believe you actually found Shiao town based on anything but poor conclusions drawn from the "wagons" of three players, when you didn't consider ANYTHING about the context of the votes, why they were made, or whether they were changed or not. It seems more like you just decided Shiao was town and had to find a reason to say so, rather than actually having analysed the information in the thread and reached a solid conclusion. But hey, shit on my analysis some more. I guarantee one of syl/shiao/hopeless is mafia. You don't think those votes are fishy as fuck? Of course not, YOU SAID IT WASN'T BEFORE! LOLOLOL Whatever. Shoot me. I'm obviously too angry to take this seriously. | ||
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On April 28 2013 14:13 Ace wrote: *yawn* link me to your analysis please, and show me where you tried to rally votes onto those suspects. I'm waiting. I clearly changed my opinion of them upon them actually responding to my accusations, if you have been reading the game. But yeah, whatever, ignore me telling the thread to lynch BC at the end of day 1, ignore me telling the thread to lynch VE at the start of day 2, and ignore the cases I made on both of them on day 1, neither of which was outdated when I pushed for those lynches. BUT GUESS WHAT?! All you've said about me is "vig him" all game, so you're more guilty of "namedropping" than me. Get off your high horse. | ||
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On April 28 2013 14:20 Ace wrote: I dont have a strong read on geript. I lol'd at the post where he called my points bad when he made it but a bunch of people needed to be clarified. btw you guys should read yamato's last post. Its a beautiful gem of tl;dr syndrome. SEE? YOU DID IT AGAIN! How can you (falsely) accuse me of doing something you're doing yourself? Complete bullshit. That's why you're mafia, Ace. You're just trying to use your gravitas as a player to push people into viewing me negatively. | ||
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On April 28 2013 14:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: yamato, it's bullshit you say you have seriously tried to convince anyone to lynch VE on D2. I started out the day doing that, yes. At some point I did realize that he might actually be town. but whatever, you people alays try to crucify me for changing my reads when it's obviously an evolving process ridiculous | ||
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On April 28 2013 14:23 Ace wrote: what did I just do yamato that you've done? lol explain it to me NAMEDROP Say something inflammatory about a player in the game with zero purpose other than to further increase negative sentiment about them in the thread | ||
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On April 28 2013 14:26 Ace wrote: who did I name drop? ME Can you read? What the actual fuck? | ||
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On April 28 2013 14:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you call this a case i'm going to laugh at you. You are calling VE mafia because you didn't answer to BC and he put pressure on you and wanted you to answer. VE never even voted for you on D2. Way to go bro. That was LATE day 2, and as I said, it was not long after this that I realized my renewed suspicion of VE was based on nothing. Page 7 of my filter starts day 2, and I obviously push for his lynch based on analysis I had already made day 1. | ||
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On April 28 2013 14:29 Ace wrote: yamato clearly wants a vigi shot to the face, so someone just end him. I'm gonna go do something productive like look for gif meems to spam once yamato has died and flipped Scum. GN peoples. THIS IS WHAT ACE RESORTS TO, PEOPLE NOT ACTUALLY RESPONDING TO MY POINTS, BUT THIS REMEMBER, IF I DIE, THAT HE IS MAFIA | ||
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/NIjl5vq.jpg) | ||
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On April 28 2013 15:02 getmoript wrote: Yes yamato, Ace could be mafia. Doubtful but possible. I'm just going to post that picture every time he posts. Eventually you'll catch on. | ||
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On April 28 2013 15:07 VisceraEyes wrote: I was tunnel ed in hard on Snarfs all game cause I was passed off that he tunnel ed in on me. CC agreed most of the day and was one of a couple people who switched to lynch Snarfs. I clearly showed in my awesome case on you that game that you weren't as tunneled as you thought ;] But yeah, Ace bussed Clarity. GG scum. | ||
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On April 28 2013 15:09 getmoript wrote: Right now, I really just want to flip yamato. I want to flip too so town can win this game. | ||
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afk vigi me plz | ||
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I agree with his lynch, he is believably mafia. | ||
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On April 29 2013 11:02 WaveofShadow wrote: Why the fuck WAS grush killed last night? Actually I know. Inconspicuous 3rd party target, unlikely to be a threat to 3rd party or scum so just an easy town numbers reduction for 3rd party. Rayn was for sure the scum target. Aaaaaanyway, gonna look into Sylencia myself. Completely agree The question is, why have scum's confirmed targets been Vivax and Rayn when BC/Ace/Palmar exist in the game? I agree with the analysis that someone wants to hide amongst the vets, because between the three of them, I have not a single solid town read. And as far as I know, there's only one RB claim from last night, no? Are there any other claims? | ||
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On April 29 2013 11:06 Ace wrote: and now VE and the other scumbucket yamato show up. Something extremely foul is going on here. What kind of stupid plot are you running Palmar? You wont even vote for your target BC. why so willing to sheep so quickly? Is this a mega bus of sylencia so both of you can gain cred lynching BC the potential third party? both of you buying each other's claims so quickly REEKS of scum play. just filthy. Ace, are you sure you're not mafia? Because you sure act like one. | ||
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So if Syl is town, Shiao is mafia, because CC is insane. Lynch Shiao? Any way this turns out, I look baws from my analysis at the end of yesterday. | ||
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On April 29 2013 11:16 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I could wrap my head around the idea of OO scum tbh. Why? | ||
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On April 29 2013 11:16 Ace wrote: for fucks sake I hate all of you we all hate you too, it's okay just go away | ||
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On April 29 2013 11:18 Ace wrote: both of them just happened to investigate the same lurker on the same night. what a mess. Shit happens | ||
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On April 29 2013 11:24 yamato77 wrote: Don't forgot the RB claims, which imply 2 RBers, one for sure JK, and at least one other JOAT And the self aware miller | ||
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On April 29 2013 11:25 Ace wrote: if you believe this then you are claiming Scum. Ve and Mr.CC's checks would be real implicating Sylencia and then you by extension genius lol. Assuming they're both sane, and real But yeah, instead of thinking about figuring the game out, just call everyone mafia Real town, Ace | ||
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lolol, there's no way to confirm any of you. | ||
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oh well, night 1 checks are still unreliable assuming tube even sent night actions, lol | ||
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On April 29 2013 11:31 Sharrant wrote: What is this post? Seriously? Are you not reading the thread? Ace has been the biggest one saying it's likely at least one of the checks are faked, and you feel the need to sling dirt at him in that way? Stop buddying Ace so hard Seriously | ||
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On April 29 2013 11:36 Ace wrote: thats nice. really. you've got me shaking with such a strong, proven accusation. the fact that your reaction is to feign fear means you have something to fear mafia | ||
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ignore Ace figure out these stupid claims | ||
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On April 29 2013 11:41 Ace wrote: and lynching syl says nothing unless you agree that all of VE, Palmar and CC are legit telling the truth. If you seriously are buying this fact, then and only then am I accepting anyone saying they are going to lynch Syl. But the people that have called those 3 Scum at points in the game would have lots of explaining to do because that would be a very quick about face without analyzing the claims. Lynching Syl has nothing to do with Palmar | ||
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On April 29 2013 11:47 VisceraEyes wrote: What if Shiao is scum. CC paranoid. OO and Syl both town. Palmar scum. Thoughts? Certainly possible Impossible to know which of Syl/Shiao is town until we lynch into them | ||
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On April 29 2013 11:49 Ace wrote: lol @ cc being possible paranoid. yamato and VE are so bad at reading ALTERNATIVELY, WE COULD JUST LYNCH THIS GUY SINCE HE'S FUCKING MAFIA AND ALL | ||
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He's not even trying, he's just shitting on all of us Clearly mafia FUCKING HELL, I'VE BEEN RIGHT ALL GAME ABOUT HIM | ||
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Just do it | ||
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On April 29 2013 12:05 Ace wrote: I def believe sylencia can flip scum. but there is a major plot for future cred here and at least one of these cops, perhaps 2 are lying. and VE just dropped his claim with no reasonings period. Its almost as bad the other 2 but I'm willing to buy CC is just not used to this war zone. There is a major, major plot here and there is one more thing we can do and the fact that none of those 3 have said it paints a big, big red ball on their heads. Someone is definitely lying for sure. YEAH ACE, LET'S LYNCH THE COP CLAIM YEAH SO SMART | ||
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On April 29 2013 12:08 Ace wrote: this is why you are on the bottom rungs of the skill ladder. no thinking. we dont even have to lynch them yet dum dum. Then what are you doing today Lynch sylencia, stop being a dumbass | ||
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On April 29 2013 12:15 WaveofShadow wrote: I'm telling you guys. Entire scumteam afk. Clarity/tube/Shiao/Syl and Stutters. If that's the scum team, I quit | ||
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On April 29 2013 12:28 Ace wrote: I'm gonna go back through the thread again after I watch Game Of Thrones. yamato do some actual work you lazy piece of trash. you're bad please don't come back | ||
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On April 29 2013 12:31 Sylencia wrote: In any case before you guys rush things let me catch up before quick lynching, since that's literally the worst thing you could do right now EE HAN TIMING | ||
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but LITERALLY the ONLY way to figure out anything is to lynch Sylencia, because he's the common denominator. | ||
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Lynch someone, then | ||
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Good stuff. Do eet. | ||
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On April 29 2013 14:41 VisceraEyes wrote: And I'll fully admit - I'm malleable on this point. OO looked town early game and that's what I'm basing this on...a lot has happened and OO hasn't really taken hardline stances at any point during the crazy. Get your vote on Sylencia We're lynching mafia | ||
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On April 29 2013 14:43 ObviousOne wrote: I said I think Syl is scum and I got told that makes me scum. I would rather not believe any of the claims as beat the players, not the setup. I just posted a damning case on Shiao as well. What more can I do? Don't worry about these people. Sit back, take a drink, lynch a Syl | ||
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On April 29 2013 14:45 VisceraEyes wrote: Is OO Mafia yam? I mean if he is coo we do this. No He could be miller, you could be lying, or Syl might be town. | ||
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On April 29 2013 14:45 Ace wrote: I'll wait for other people to chime in. We did say its possible for Shiao and Clarity to be scum so lets see. I prefer Syl. I said this And people called me mafia for thinking Shiao was mafia. Ridiculous. | ||
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On April 29 2013 14:49 VisceraEyes wrote: You know what's ridiculous? Sylencia never getting back with us. That's pretty ridiculous. You're right, VE. So you could put your vote on mafia, and we could be one step closer to figuring this whole shitfest out. | ||
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On April 29 2013 14:50 Bill Murray wrote: oh hi there scum gambit for a mislynch thats cute what youre trying to do but im not buying it He's been trying to get us to lynch Shiao this whole time Don't overthink this, Bill. | ||
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On April 29 2013 14:51 VisceraEyes wrote: Fuck your bravado bish don't tell me what to do. I'll vote you son. Yeah, whatever | ||
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On April 29 2013 14:55 VisceraEyes wrote: Yeah whatever you know how well I respond to that shit man. Why Syl? Sylencia is fucking mislynchbait - has been in every game he's played. No one was even talking about him as scum until now, why is he such obvious scum that you feel like you don't even have to explain yourself? I already talked about why Sylencia could be mafia, at the end of day 2. Mislynch bait or not, him posting ONLY to not get modkilled is fishy. | ||
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On April 29 2013 15:11 VisceraEyes wrote: Like OO soft defends Syl all effing game long until he's suddenly the same alignment as him? THEN all of a sudden he knew all along that Syl was scum right? Sounds legit. ##Vote: Sylencia Come on, VE really wtf | ||
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In two days of play time in Boardwalk as mafia, he had 4 Yeah, I don't think he's mafia, but I do think Syl is, and the correct play here might just be to ignore the checks somewhat and lynch the scummy fuckers. | ||
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Then someone can hammer relatively soon and we'll have a way out of this mess! | ||
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Get on the wagon of righteousness. Lynch the red check. | ||
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HAMMER HIM | ||
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Cops, check each other. Mafia, shoot me. kthnksbye afk | ||
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On April 29 2013 16:13 Sylencia wrote: thx for killing me before i even got home gg it's not your fault | ||
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LOOK AT THAT | ||
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Maybe we should just lynch you tomorrow instead of Shiao? Could always delay the information-gathering for the all important event of lynching mafia. | ||
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No reason to be suspicious that he asked a question about his own role to the host. hopeless=mafia | ||
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Shiao might have been the better lynch, but people were fucking off and I'm tired of this town doing fuck all | ||
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On April 30 2013 06:55 Palmar wrote: This is a great game. I'm just going to do nothing and let the hilariousness happen. I really have a bad case of the cba this game. I feel you, Palmar. I really do. | ||
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Plus, Scum/3P have KP and you all might not live too long anyway. I'd rather take CC/VE at face value, ignore Palmar's claim, and lynch Shiao tomorrow pending any further results. | ||
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On April 30 2013 09:34 VisceraEyes wrote: Why do YOU think it's stupid? Ace is a MUCH scum better player than both of us...I've just provided reasoning for ME thinking it's dumb, why do YOU think it's dumb? Addendum | ||
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afk | ||
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It's finding the last two mafia that will be a challenge. | ||
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Looks like everyone's arriving at a not-stupid conclusion about this information. See you tomorrow. | ||
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On April 30 2013 14:36 VisceraEyes wrote: I really wish I could have used my check on Yamato tonight. I really regret claiming. Do it anyway inb4 mafia check lolol forreal afk now | ||
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I got masoned. Lynch Shiao today. | ||
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That said, us talking about the peculiarities of Palmar/BC and the claims therein is good discussion. I've thought about this, and it really comes down to that neither of them are particularly trustworthy or believable, and either or both could be mafia or 3rd Party. | ||
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On April 30 2013 23:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Sure, but BC wasn't being completely inactive. If you were going for an inactive player there were far better targets like Stutters. It's clear that Palmar felt BC was unreadable, as he was reluctant to call him mafia day 1 based on the fact that BC is always bad day 1. And the whole "list of cobblers" thing. | ||
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On April 30 2013 23:43 ShiaoPi wrote: yo guys, kill gigyas, stutters and VE thats the scum team and kush or the cobbler are 3rd party.... What is this supposed to be? | ||
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On April 30 2013 23:48 ShiaoPi wrote: Just leaving behind my point of view, before someone stupid hammers me Looks like a WifomBomb® | ||
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Details at 11. | ||
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So assuming Shiao is mafia, that makes the day 2 wagons BOTH mafia. People that felt there was little difference between them would be largely absolved, in my opinion. What would then be strange were the two people who argued over the two of them, VE and Ace. As I said before, there is a clear scum motivation in saving Shiao and bussing Clarity, because Clarity was likely to be mod killed anyway and highly inactive. Ace proposes that this lost the scum team 2 KP, and it did, but it actually served to SAVE a scum member, since before Ace's push, Shiao was the one getting lynched. Some time in day 2, people began to realize just how inactive Clarity was, and it became apparent that he was more than likely to be mod killed. So the Clarity bus, assuming Shiao is mafia, is actually making the best out of a shit situation. Ace also argues in his filter that the scum team would have pushed an alternative target, but people fail to realize that this person was me. Thread sentiment has been against me the entire game, and even the way Ace develops his suspicion of me on day 1 is worth looking at. And on day 2, there is no shortage of referring to me being a possible lynch candidate in Ace's filter. What adds on to this for me is that his metric for determining the better lynch between Clarity/Shiao is somewhat suspect. Most of it no longer applies, because in knowing that Clarity was scum, and Shiao was scum, we realize that him not voting his scum buddy in the time he was there is not weird whatsoever. The VCA that "scummy people" from the Oats wagon were on the Shiao wagon is also complete bullshit, and I've been over that before. Another thing is the choice of NK, CC. His check was the one on Shiao, and it was this check that Ace wanted to argue against, that CC was suspicious for his claim and not to be trusted. Later, he goes on to about face once he realizes people are believing CC and plays along with this whole thing, but he's still disruptive in the sense that he wanted cops to check each other, which CC was obviously against from a look at his filter. So with VE complying, and Palmar being a wildcard and under some suspicion, he NK's the cop everyone believes that isn't following his circle jerk plan. Shiao flipping a scum largely invalidates the largest part of why people should believe Ace as town, which were his day 2 actions with the lynch. When you eliminate that, which is a large portion of his actual contribution this game, his filter devolves significantly, and you're left with a lot of arguing with people and insulting others, along with bullying people for their read on him. So yeah, Ace could definitely be scum. | ||
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On May 01 2013 08:11 VisceraEyes wrote: Yamato if you're not going to be helpful I'd prefer if you died in silence. If you think Ace is mafia then I'm not familiar with your TOWN play at all, so whatever I don't know your play at ALL like I thought I did. You don't think his day 2 actions have a clear mafia motivation to them? I pretty much laid it out, from A to Z. It's not difficult to understand. I myself doubt my own conclusion, but it's possible. He is supposed to be good as scum, you know. | ||
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Has Kush suspected any of the mafia we have flipped this game? If yes, he is mafia. If no, we can ignore him. I cba to look at his filter. | ||
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On May 01 2013 08:16 kushm4sta wrote: stfu yamato your reads are even worse than mine lol It's just a fun joke based on your common mafia meta. | ||
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On May 01 2013 08:26 VisceraEyes wrote: Please, make me go back and find all the instances of you calling me scum. PLEASE MAKE ME DO THAT YAMATO. You're still a parrot of town sentiment, largely. I simply have to decide whether I believe town VE to act that way or scum VE. In the past, it's always been scum VE, but you APPEAR more like your town games this game, so I waffle back and forth. It's your own fault for having a shit day 1. The same could be said for me, I suppose. | ||
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On May 01 2013 08:30 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm NOT a parrot of town sentiment WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS? BECAUSE I'M NOT SHITTING UP THE THREAD WITH CONSPIRACY THEORIES ABOUT ACE BEING QUADRUPLEBUSSING SCUM I'M JUST PARROTING TOWN SENTIMENT?! I FUCKING PUSHED SHIAOPI LYNCH YESTERDAY WHEN TOWN SENTIMENT WANTED TO LYNCH SYLENCIA MOTHERFUCKER Yeah, that's a point in your favor. | ||
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But I have made many cases this game, right or wrong, and with the Syl/Shiao situation, I got shit done, right or wrong. But I can see where someone might think I'm mafia, because I have played like shit for the majority of this game. I would like to think I'm being more reasonable lately than I have been most of the game. But hey, you can yell and scream at me because I think you might be mafia. That's cool. I might be wrong, and I acknowledge that, but I never sleep on players like you, VE. You're better at scum than you want people to believe. | ||
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On May 01 2013 09:10 VisceraEyes wrote: BC: Palmar or Yamato - who gets the lynch tomorrow and why? There's no reason to lynch me when I clearly arrived at Shiao=scum at the end of day 2. | ||
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The amount of circlejerk in the VE/Ace/BC dynamic is astounding. | ||
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On May 01 2013 09:58 VisceraEyes wrote: Don't hate - participate! Your best bet is to try and convince town of a Palmar lynch OVER you. Leave Ace for last if you're town and honestly think he's the last scum. No, it's not. The amount of confirmation bias displayed by the three of you regarding me is completely absurd. None of you can read me for shit. Good job. | ||
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On May 01 2013 10:14 VisceraEyes wrote: ...insinuating that all three of us are town being biased by our reads. If we're all town then who is scum yamato? Fuck man, it's not like we're asking you to move the goddamn moon! You might be town, I might be wrong about Ace. I've already said that. BC is in the "who the fuck knows" category. Stop acting like you've done anything but claimed. The fact that I'm being called out for "not trying" this game is pretty fucking stupid. I've done multiplicatively more this game in scumhunting than you have. Note, you're all sleeping on Hopeless, who I've been telling you is likely mafia since day 2 based on the same analysis that caught Shiao. Go away with your shitty accusations that I'm only accusing "the good players" this game, as if that actually meant anything at all whatsoever. | ||
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On May 01 2013 10:17 Ace wrote: maybe following up on your promises would be a good start. You can't even read, because I posted cases on VE and BC DAY FUCKING ONE. | ||
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On May 01 2013 10:22 TheRavensName wrote: Dear god This is annoying to read. It's annoying to play. | ||
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On May 01 2013 10:24 Ace wrote: those were not cases stop your nonsense lol. it was just straight up bias tunneling. You're bias tunneling if you excuse my analysis with that stupid nonsense. Go away and be bad somewhere else, I'm tired of playing with you. | ||
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On May 01 2013 10:27 Ace wrote: do I have to break out more gif memes? Yes, please keep antagonizing me. Get your head out of your ass. | ||
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On May 01 2013 10:32 VisceraEyes wrote: Yamato as frustrated as you must feel if you're town, imagine things from our perspective. Here's this scummy player (our perspective sir, bear with me) who rather than even TRYING to be townie and look for scum, is just in here screaming NO U at anyone who's suspicious of him. I've been trying to talk about ALL KINDS of people this cycle, not just tunneling you into oblivion, and I've come to the conclusion based on what I've read and what's been discussed that you're the best lynch in my opinion. Prove me wrong dude! Show me you're town by finding scum and participating in the discussion! Don't just shit on it, discredit those participating and fuck off...that's a SCUMMY THING TO DO, and you can be mad about it all you want but it is. You may think I haven't done anything in this game but claim, but there's a reason most everyone is certain I'm town at this point and people are frothing at the mouth to lynch you...I'll tell you for free that it's probably not because of my claim. Yeah, it's because you've largely agreed with them all game, and I haven't. Small wonder they think you're town and I'm not. All of people's criticism of me boils down to "I don't like how you play" and that's bullshit. I'm not going to play how you want me to when I'm perfectly successful in games where I play my way. So fuck off. I don't give a single shit if you lynch me. Maybe you'll learn something about the game in the process. | ||
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On May 01 2013 10:39 Ace wrote: I dont care how you play. You've loafed around all game and hurled accusations at "vet" players and tried to pass it off as effort. When called on your stinking bullshit you get mad and emotional instead of manning up and playing. Your arguments are trash, made up nonsense that shows you haven't been reading the game. Now you're throwing a pity party because of a little pressure. Quit if you feel that way and dont really care. No one is stopping you. The fact that you could type this post shows how delusional you are about this game. | ||
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Why don't people want to lynch Hopeless? Let's talk about him, since he's one person who is not Ace/BC/Palmar/VE who I feel could be mafia. | ||
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On April 27 2013 17:14 yamato77 wrote: So I kind of re-skimmed the thread and looked over what people have said, finally, and this post by Shiao is quite bad: Much has been said about this entrance, but it was horrible, for a number of reasons. While it can be reasonably assumed that he is actually busy, the amount of this post used to excuse his own inactivity is mind-blowing. He has no original thought about the game, and doesn't seem to care about giving us any valid reasons for voting for VE outside of Palmar's lackluster efforts in pushing for the lynch. And then there's the bolded, his "reaction" to the tube modkill, that sets something off in my head. It seems unnatural and forced to go "(lol btw!)" in the middle of this post. I'd be happy with lynching him, if we feel we need to consolidate on a lynch. I've advocated playing a waiting game, but I saw it mentioned that we've only really talked about lynching between him/Clarity today, and I agree, so perhaps it is best if we move on. Another thing I thought to look at was the WHOLE votecount from day 1, not just the Oats wagon: There are some changes to this: So the votecount itself is somewhat difficult to analyse, seeing as most people were either on me or Oats, but the people on Rayn do seem out of place, and it is even more weird that two of them managed to get themselves on to Oats before his lynch; Sylencia and Hopeless. Also note that Shiao's only vote of the whole day was the hammer on Oats. And people want to say that it isn't scummy? Yeah, no. But as before, there were multiple vote changes inbetween, and they are worth looking into. To begin why did Sylencia decide to change to Oats? Seems more of a case for voting for "bad town" than scum, which seems like a slip of a scum mindset, in my opinion. Why? Because it is something I run into as scum, how to formulate a read on a town player and call them scum so I can vote for them. Most of the time, it is "bad town" that get mislynched, so the difference becomes vague. Justifying a vote by saying that someone is "bad for town" is an easy scum out, because town players can and will be anti-town on many occasions. Yet this is Sylencia's mindset, and how he justifies the vote on Oats. Just from this voting analysis, I feel he might be mafia. I have yet to analyse his filter in totality, but given this, I will definitely give it a look. Hopeless. + Show Spoiler + Get it? Anyway, this is Wonder's SECOND EVER mention of Oatsmaster, and the first one where he gives any inclination of thinking him mafia. AMAZING! HOW DID HE REACH THIS SECRET CONCLUSION?!?!?! Wow. I'm not saying this is totally regurgitation of other people's arguments, but it is. This also come AFTER his vote, where he's fully aware that he's putting Oats one vote away from lynch. And then guess what happens... I unvote (temporarily delaying the lynch), Sylencia manages to vote AND: The hammer! This all happens within the span of ~2 hours, mind you, when I'm screaming at the thread not to lynch Oats. Say what you want about me, but all three of these votes are particularly HORRID, and all of them are either switches off Rayn (a wagon that seems inherently scummy, in that people that switched off it didn't seem to change their read on him much) or the player's first vote of the game. Is there a chance they are town? Sure. I'd probably say Sylencia has the most chance to be town, since when compared to the other two, his vote looks the MOST explained, despite the fishy nature of the post. The other two, however, give very little indication that they think Oats is mafia before they vote, and the hammer in particular looks like TEXTBOOK MAFIA trying to find a good reason to just lynch a town. Notably, I did something JUST like this day 1 of British Empire 1 (also instant majority), where I fabricated suspicion of a town-created wagon on a town player and managed to hammer him for the lynch. Only this is even worse, and more obvious, because they didn't even manage to look like they thought about it before obviously putting Oats in danger of, and actually being lynch. That's VCA done right, bros. And from it, I find the willingness to lynch the fuck out of Shiapi, because this is bullshit. No matter how much post-hoc justification he gives, there is only mafia motivation to be seen in what he has done. | ||
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He's mafia. Lynch him. OO/WoS/TRN/Gigyas/VE/Kush seem town enough to eliminate them. Ace/Palmar/BC - will never speak about again. If I had a choice, I would RNG between them and lynch ruthlessly. Sharrant/Artanis/Stutters all possible mafia. | ||
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Artanis replaced Drazak, who was a lurky, inactive player as mafia in Hydra. Perhaps this trend carried over to this game, and he rolled mafia again? Is Drazak known for being inactive as town? Artanis also suffers from the same syndrome mafia DarthPunk did in Personality 2, one of complete apathy upon replacing in, and excusing his lack of contribution with the idea that he's "still catching up." He is also one of a very few people who have correctly read my alignment. Is that just an attempt to buddy me, or is he actually like CC and Palmar in that he has a brain? Difficult to tell in this town. Seems like a good candidate to pressure for lynch, because if town, he might actually do something. He is relatively decent at scum, however, so he may be difficult to hammer home. Stutters replaced DH, who I think is just AWOL from the forum altogether. Stutter's inactivity is typical of his play, so there's literally nothing alignment indicative about it. What he has said in the thread seems logical enough, and it would be his first scum game ever, so it's probably better to treat him as if he's town until there is some indication that he isn't. Not a good lynch, because it's 75/25 that he's town, IMO. So it's Hopeless/Artanis as possible mafia left out of the "non-vet" group. Next I'll take a serious look at the vet group and determine the actual possibilities that lie therein. | ||
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By this same logic, it seems odd that Ace is alive. While all of these players have been under some degree of suspicion this game, this fact hasn't stopped scum teams from shooting high-priority targets before. Out of the three mentioned, Ace seems like the least likely to be mafia, simply from activity levels and attitude about the game. But he also has a reputation as a legendary scum player, so it is difficult for me to cognitively cross him off my list of suspects, and my conspiracy theories only serve to move him further null in my mind. It may be a decent idea to ignore him for a short while until we get more information about the alignments of the other two. So back to Palmar/BC; I find it more likely that Palmar is town than BC. Palmar, while relatively inactive, has attempted at times to push his own agenda in lynching VE, good or bad. He's also had a believable narrative in checking/claiming a red check on BC. Is he capable of this sort of play as mafia? It's possible, but I feel it likely that Palmar is actually telling the truth that he simply cba to do anything. It's an illness that often strikes Palmar. BC doesn't seem to have pushed for anyone's lynch but mine this whole game. From my perspective, this is hilariously weak, since I know I'm town. It's unfortunate that his schedule restricts him from being active most of the time people are attempting to decide upon lynches. His strongest stance since saying I'm scum is saying that Palmar is, which seems to be in line with general town sentiment. But I've never seen BC play past D1/N1, so I can't know if this play is his typical town play or not. I will say that in the games I have played with him, he seems more assertive about his reads and more aggressive in hunting them. I'm not getting that feeling this game, especially as the game wears on. Out of the two, I would lynch BC. I'd much rather lynch Hopeless, however, over either of them. I'll take a better look at his voting patterns throughout the game and come to a much more defined conclusion. | ||
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Go on, look at it, it's short. He has 5 vote this game, and they are not spread evenly throughout the days. I'm going to match them to the corresponding reasons he gives in thread and analyse his voting strategy this game, all in chronological order to see how it's changed, or hasn't, over time. DAY 1 On April 22 2013 21:30 Hopeless1der wrote: ##Vote: raynpelikoneet On April 22 2013 21:30 Hopeless1der wrote: What the fuck is this suspicion on me based on? My determination to "Shut down townreads"? Yes, when you're handing them out like hotcakes and trying to hold hands singing kumbya. This is Mafia, not summer camp singalong. I'm not discouraging reasonable townreads, I'm trying to keep things objective and informed. The two points against me are my comments on VE's entrance and Vivax/Palmar's entrance posts. For VE, watch carefully: + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2013 01:50 Hopeless1der wrote: On March 22 2013 20:48 Blazinghand wrote: Sample PMs: How the fuck is this so difficult to understand? Am I trying to prevent townreads? You could say that. However, the reasoning used to attain a townread on VE was true of literally every player in the game. It's the equivalent of calling anyone who doesn't post for more than an hour scum. Man's gotta sleep right? Same way he has to READ THE OP TO LEARN WHAT HIS ROLE IS??? Vivax/Palmar's openings: Palmar, based on the plethora of information from Vivax's two posts, the first ones in the game, declares Vivax to be unlynchable. Just like that. And that was alright because I felt similar about it. I mean I'd still have an open mind, but Vivax's post did put me onto a townier side of Vivax. My problem with Palmar's post was that he called something really fucking stupid a valuable towntell heuristic. Let me break this shit down: DAY 1 POST timestamp On April 21 2013 16:55 Blazinghand wrote: Vivax's first posts, the ones Palmar was referring to So roughly an hour and a half. In addition there were 15ish posts between 6 players, obs notwithstanding. Also, the game started in the dead of night where I am. Hydra Mini scum in ~30 minutes, 33 posts into the game. Ego Mini: scum posted within an hour of game start. 34 posts in. Noir Mini: scum four minutes and 6 posts into the game British Empire II second post of the game 3 minutes in. Red team's prize Scum in under an hour, 25 posts in. The Game scum 5 minutes in, second post All of these games violate Vivax's heuristic, but fuck me for pointing it out (without proof i guess) and questioning Palmar as to why he felt it was valuable, eh guys? . These are literally games just going down the list of the TL Mafia forum. I'm obviouscum trying to derail town from giving out Completely valid and well thought out town reads based on sound reasoning. Nah, you can all go die in a fire if you want to lynch me for this. As of right now, I'm on Sharrant's side and would lynch rayn. I disllike his backpedal about "policy" miller lynching. I dislike his case overall as it is largely OMGUS, but still asks questions of the person he is accusing. However, his preface to his case was here: These two quotes don't accomplish anything to me. He's just throwing the question back at sharrant like a stall tactic of feigning disbelief. For having come up with a scumread on Sharrant it seems grounded in the fact that Sharrant is wrong, not necessarily scum. "If I WERE mafia, blah blah blah" No. I say you ARE mafia. ##Vote: raynpelikoneet This post has been given as reason for hopeless being town, because it shows effort. I disagree. Most of the things Hopeless argues about in this post are completely pointless, and none of it has almost any bearing on anyone's alignment. Again, I'll break it down. 1) VE shouldn't be a town read because everyone had to look at the OP for their role, or whatever. I don't even understand what he's arguing here, and he doesn't pursue it. It's a non-issue, and it seems more like he's defending himself for doing what he did than actually pushing any sort of suspicion on VE. It's stupid, and not worth talking about. 2) Vivax gave out too many "free town reads" or whatever with his "no scum have posted before this!" post. What the fuck, who cares. Why does he care what Vivax is doing with his reads this game, unless he thinks he is mafia? It's an absurd argument, and again pointless. Just as pointless to argue that Palmar is suspicious for giving Vivax a townread over it. Another thing that seems self-serving, in that it's defending his contributions this game. 3) He's shutting down town reads of people. That point actually seems true, since that's most of what he's talked about. Valid criticism, but not all that damning. 4) The case on Rayn, which was woefully short and inadequate. Not only do we have the luxury of knowing that he was wrong here, but his arguments aren't even that strong. He takes a couple of posts out of context in an argument between Rayn and Sharrant, and calls Rayb mafia because they sound odd, or something to that effect. It's largely bogus, and Hopeless is obviously just taking sides in a town vs. town war and hoping to fan the flames. I view this as a point against him, not for him. So when we break that post down, it's actually fairly apparent that his contribution esd largely self-serving, and have fairly clear mafia motivations. He wants to clear his image and appear to be "scumhunting" while he argues over town reads, so he slaps an ill-thought-out case down on Rayn and proceeds to do little else day 1. On April 23 2013 21:39 Hopeless1der wrote: ##Unvote: raynpelikoneet ##Vote: Oatsmaster On April 23 2013 21:39 Hopeless1der wrote: Vivax where did your unofficial count come from it looks wonky... in any case, this should be L-1 on Oats ##Unvote: raynpelikoneet ##Vote: Oatsmaster This is his only other vote on Day 1, and as I analysed before, it's a shit vote with literally no prior explanation, and one that should have been taken more seriously. Hopeless CLEARLY understands that this puts Oats at real risk of being hammered, but there's no prior indication from his filter that he's considered this fact at all. The only justification comes AFTERWARD, which is too little too late. On April 23 2013 22:37 Hopeless1der wrote: I think you're too trolly in the face of dieing to be town. I'm not even certain you have a scum read on anyone at all. You've provided next to nothing. A shitty list post where your strongest scum read is "well someone has to be scum, why not Ace". gtfo. You can judge for yourselves how you feel about this, but I will note that Shiao's vote was ALSO justified largely post-hoc, and I also analysed that vote to be mafia motivated for the same reasons. And look what he flipped. DAY 2: On April 27 2013 03:52 Hopeless1der wrote: ##Vote: Sharrant On April 27 2013 03:51 Hopeless1der wrote: tbh Sharrant until someone can explain how he gets away from his scumread on you, as evidenced from Those important things, like not lynching your primary scumread? He doesnt return to 'get things done" until Oats is lynched. Clarity's spiel about 'easy outs' doesnt look that stupid to me considering how Sharrant's read on rayn went into the abyss with no comment at all. He just dropped his read with no explanation that I can find. What gives? There's also what I view as feigned contribution. I realize he's posted way more than I have, but when you post and then don't drop a wall of text in some regard, it looks like faked activity to me. This is also his first post after insisting he has shit to do upon his return, but I cant find these amazing things he's done. He's focused his attention towards clarity, but clarity barely existed at this point. Where are these "better things" sharrant promised? ##Vote: Sharrant In the Sharrant vs. Clarity thing that happaned day 2, Hopeless took the side of mafia, after having taken Sharrant's side day 1. Purely as an association case, this looks horrible, but when you consider that Hopeless' read of Sharrant changed so drastically overnight, it becomes even more suspicious. I'm not at all impressed with this vote. On April 27 2013 05:23 Hopeless1der wrote: ##Unvote: Sharrant ##Vote: ShiaoPi On April 27 2013 05:23 Hopeless1der wrote: welp i guess im on shiaopi then ##Unvote: Sharrant ##Vote: ShiaoPi ...Why? On April 28 2013 09:54 Hopeless1der wrote: Yeah no one has ever exaggerated in their life, right Ryan? ...any who I need to eat my words on sharrant. My main reason in voting shiao was that I didn't trust sharrant. There is no good reason for him to be scum at this point. You don't suicide your vig into a teammate who proceeds to tear you a new one. I agree with most of the proposed big shots. Ie. Sketch bags on shiao's wagon. Unless shiao is ALSO a vig, he really should be considered town. Depending on flips and such, I'd consider him semi confirmed. My personal choices for shots is sylencia and stutters. Obviously don't shoot me (herpderp), and I marginally believe wos. Post-hoc justification, yet again. He stays consistent in that he "didn't trust Sharrant" so he didn't vote for Clarity. But what did he do? He defended Shiao's image to the thread and threw shit at the people on his wagon. Why? Who the fuck knows. Before now, I see almost zero mention of Shiao and his read on him, except that he's "willing to hammer him". Not looking great for Hopeless here in this department. Day 3... Nothing. While we did lynch quick, he made no vote. A non-issue, I suppose. Day 4: On April 30 2013 22:39 Hopeless1der wrote: ##Vote:ShiaoPi On April 30 2013 22:39 Hopeless1der wrote: I pretty much agree with all of this, except ShiaoPi could have been framed so its not 100%. Nevertheless, the correct move is to lynch him right now. ##Vote:ShiaoPi Follows along with town's plan, altogether blending in. Overall, it's fairly clear to me how little Hopeless cares about finding a good lynch. He doesn't spend much effort in the thread trying to discern people's alignments, and his votes on Day 1+2 look highly suspect. Just from looking at these posts, and some context in his filter, it's easy to discern that Hopeless is mafia. | ||
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All of you are too late. | ||
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Artanis, who do you think the last mafia is and why? Right now I'm inclined to believe it's you. | ||
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On May 02 2013 01:06 VisceraEyes wrote: you know what I mean dude, I don't care what it's about. The fact that he posted it means he was putting himself IN the spotlight, in order to DISSUADE Vivax' townread of several players, including flipped scum ShiaoPi. This doesn't jive with a scum mindset imo. I really think it's a case of him as mafia just arguing to argue, actually, because he's been pretty "matter-of-fact" the entire game. I don't feel it has anything to do with who Vivax was calling town, it has more to do with Palmar calling Vivax town for it. | ||
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Lol, afk. | ||
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Because he's a lurker And he's mafia. Easy | ||
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Zero. | ||
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It happens, you know. | ||
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On May 02 2013 10:54 geript wrote: @yamato, the last time you were pushing someone like this it was Sylencia. What made you reinvest today? The fact that I was half right in my voting analysis post. I really want a 2/3 record from that post. My ego would feel good. | ||
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On May 02 2013 10:57 Ace wrote: doesnt matter which one of them goes first, as long as they both go. Who? | ||
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On May 02 2013 10:59 geript wrote: On phone at work, could you link that post please. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18458137 | ||
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On May 02 2013 11:00 Hopeless1der wrote: I kinda want to say fuck it and watch town burn for this. If you're not mafia, you've done precious little in recent days to make me feel otherwise. | ||
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On May 02 2013 11:04 Hopeless1der wrote: yeah but bashing VE after all the work hes done? fuck you bro I'm not "bashing VE". I responded to the post kush quoted already anyway, and VE never responded back. Also, yes, I do feel that he was wrong to feel that you're possibly town for that post. As I said, the post is about blending in, not about sticking out. | ||
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Then how do you expect me to believe that you're town? | ||
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Okay, glad you give consent. | ||
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We lynched the red check. | ||
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On May 02 2013 11:18 geript wrote: And with insane being an option and you stating Sylencia was the more likely of the two to flip town, how does that make sense? Did you have a scum read on OO? The Clarity flip changed my mind for a day. Obviously, Shiao looked better when Clarity flipped red, if only marginally so. | ||
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Geript, I am not mafia. There's zero good reason left to think so. Even Ace isn't pushing me, and is fine with a Hopeless lynch. | ||
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On May 02 2013 13:34 getmoript wrote: I'm still not sold on you not being mafia. Even if you aren't mafia, then it's pretty obvious that you haven't been playing well at all this game. So you calling someone scum makes me not want to sheep you because you're likely tilted and wrong. If you've managed to read my posts on Hopeless at all, you can look for yourself. It's not like it's difficult to read his 4 page filter and come up with your own decision. | ||
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Still saying Palmar? | ||
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On May 02 2013 23:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Yamato, what are your thoughts on the case? It's somewhat correct in that I don't feel BC has ever pushed any agenda strongly this game, but that makes me feel like he's more likely third party than scum. | ||
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On May 02 2013 23:38 Artanis[Xp] wrote: But 3rd party wouldn't make sense given we've only had one kill each night now and he hasn't gotten roleblocked (at least to our knowledge) so we'd have to have had two deaths by now unless he kept trying to poison Ace, which I consider unlikely. Town or scum, what do you think? Or he's Rita Skeeter. | ||
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On May 02 2013 23:38 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Also why? I think there's some actual suspicion of me somewhere in there from BC, which means he actually thought about my alignment, which eliminates the possibility of him being mafia and knowing alignments. I also don't feel like his play is suited for mafia, because mafia have a vested interest in pushing their agenda. The only person who's agenda is to simply not get lynched is Rita Skeeter, and for that, his play fits perfectly. | ||
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For someone who so vehemently called me mafia the whole game, he sure does feel fine with simply hopping along with the town sentiment I've created with the wagon on Hopeless. Bear in mind, he would do this regardless of Hopeless' alignment, because if Hopeless is mafia, he cannot risk sticking his neck out to save him when I have town sentiment on my side. He's obviously here, reading the thread, so that means he's not simply inactive. He's lurking, but not providing any input on why he feels Hopeless is a good lynch, and is obviously not invested enough in his read of Palmar to push it over my case on Hopeless. | ||
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The only other person I'm even half worried about is Palmar, and we have enough lynches, assuming that not all three of those people are town, to deal with him as well. | ||
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I guess there has to be a 3rd Party SP, given the two deaths night 2. In that case, you guys are probably right about it being Ace. | ||
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On May 01 2013 11:47 Blazinghand wrote: Question answers and clarification: Minimum scum KP is 1. Scum KP is delivered factionally and is not subject to RB. Due the the possibility of there being 3p, neither scum nor town is not allowed to concede in this game. SK and SP both are compulsive-- they must target someone every night. SK and SP shots cannot be protected against by Doctor, Veteran, JK, or the target being another SK or SP. There can be anywhere between 0 and like 20 of any role in the setup. You are always informed of roleblocks regardless of your own role. This seems to imply that SK/SP can be role blocked, and their shot stopped, it just can't be protected against. This all but confirms Ace as 3P. | ||
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Can't hurt to be sure. | ||
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On May 03 2013 02:02 Sharrant wrote: ... Palmar, it kinda sounds like you're admitting to being mafia here. I'm much more okay with your lynch now. Only people ace being confirmed third party to is mafia. No, he's actually confirmed 3P Town Vig would have claimed, unless he's really bad, but I doubt there is one anyway. We have had: 1 Unaware Miller 1 DT 1 Parity Cop All flip, plus: 1 DT Claim 1 Aware Miller Claim 1 Confirmed Mason Unless you think one of Palmar/WoS/TRN is lying/actually mafia, then it's almost certain that we don't have a town vigilante. | ||
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On May 03 2013 03:16 Stutters695 wrote: That's not a certainty that we have a jk. Scum already flipped their jk so if ace is SP he's going to lie, say he's rbed and bank on that until town flips a non-resistant jk while arguing that he's being blocked so it can't be him. He doesn't have another path to his win con that I can see. I doubt the scum JK was used solely on Ace the whole game. | ||
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On May 03 2013 03:22 Sharrant wrote: Can't quite on phone. @yamato Only scum know for certain if they had two vigis. Thus to be able to confirm him as third party one must be mafia. Also, everyone consider if they think scum jailer would jail defensively on n1 when there's no kp that they can stop with it, or whether they jail to rb a doctor or cop or jailer. If there's a scum vig, it's one of Palmar/BC/Hopeless Scum jailer was either used on Palmar or BC N1. Who do you think the TOWN jailer was more likely to jail? | ||
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List Randomizer There were 3 items in your list. Here they are in random order: Hopeless Cobbler Ace Timestamp: 2013-05-02 19:20:03 UTC Random.org has spoken. We lynch Hopeless. | ||
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On May 03 2013 04:32 Hopeless1der wrote: why the fuck is ace in that list? Should I care with which order I lynch anti-town elements in this game? | ||
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On May 03 2013 04:35 Hopeless1der wrote: Yes considering Ace's KP is controlled atm Only if you assume the JK plays along with our plan, and mafia doesn't already know who he is. If I can figure it out, I'm sure they aren't that stupid. | ||
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Pick your sides, I don't really give a fuck. I want blood. | ||
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Now pick. | ||
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On May 03 2013 05:21 BloodyC0bbler wrote: You are advocating me (i know I am town) and Ace who is either 3p or town, and hopeless who given the context of the last few pages could easily be town or mafia. However Given I know you don't give two shits now about finding scum in any logical manner and have been trying to get Ace lynched first off this list (because he might be 3rd off a ton of wifom bullshit). You go first. No town member should be advocating a potential 3rd party player when we have mafia still alive. Especially when said potential third party has been pushing mafia lynches a fair bit this game. The only one who would give two shits about mafia dying quickly is rita skeeter as she wins if the game ends on any sides victory. Plain and simple you are mafia. I cannot believed I have waffled so much about this all game. Lol, you're bad. | ||
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On May 03 2013 05:43 Sharrant wrote: Hey, Yamato, do you remember how I knew you were scum the first game we played together? Can you remember exactly what it was? I'll give you a hint, I didn't notice it before, but you did exactly the same thing in this game. Your play since then has been very different, but this play was virtually identical. You fail to realize that that post was basically a scum claim from BC. | ||
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On May 03 2013 05:47 Sharrant wrote: Please explain to me how it was a scum claim, convince me he's scum. But please do answer, do you remember how I caught you when we played? That game was a while ago, and my play is erratic as either alignment. Me insulting people is not alignment indicative, I assure you. Whatever metric you think you have on me, you don't. That's a scum claim from BC because it's just shit. "You're pushing me, and some guys that might be town! You're mafia!" Real bad. | ||
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On May 03 2013 05:52 Sharrant wrote: Because I clearly explained where the vigi (if the scum have another vigi) had fired, and you were saying that the scum wouldn't have withheld their shot. It made no sense in the context of the conversation. It's completely out of place. I said it's possible scum could have fired on n2 if they had a second vigi, killing grush, and it would appear just the same as if a third party had done it. You responded with "Sharrant you're wrong, there are no scum vigis left; if there were they wasted their shots on Ace or something. There is no way in hell scum would be sitting on vigi shots this late in the game. Ace is 3p, deal with it. I agree we don't lynch him yet." I find it highly unlike that a mafia shot was used on Grush. | ||
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On May 03 2013 06:02 Sharrant wrote: As do I, but the whole reason we're having this conversation is because Palmar sait that Ace is confirmed as third party, however unlikely mafia shooting Grush is, only mafia know for certain whether Ace is third party or not. Thus it is very important. And yeah, WoS, I just felt it needed to be reminded to everyone else again. Only the first bit was about you, the rest was to everyone else. Patience and repetition. Hey, Palmar, what checks did you do, and what results did you receive? You checked BC (RB'ed), BC (guilty), VE (guilty) is there one I'm missing? I feel like grush dying means that there's third party, and there being 3rd party basically confirms Ace as the only candidate. | ||
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On May 03 2013 06:04 yamato77 wrote: I feel like grush dying means that there's third party, and there being 3rd party basically confirms Ace as the only candidate. Obviously I also feel that Palmar agreeing with this logic is not indicative of his alignment. | ||
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Why? | ||
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On May 03 2013 06:39 kushm4sta wrote: like i dont even care who we kill bc or hopeless. i think they are both pretty fucking scummy. I just want one to die quick cause Im impatient. This, really. | ||
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Give me some validation here. | ||
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On May 04 2013 02:59 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Ive called Ace third party since n1. Want a cookie? You called VE scum and were wrong, you wanted oats dead for being scum and were wrong. You can say I am scummy but I am town so you are wrong there. So why would anyone listen to you? I very clearly argued against an Oats lynch, but thanks for showing how little attention you're paying to this game. | ||
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BC's read of me is no longer explainable as simple bias, it's literally the scummiest thing in the whole game. | ||
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On May 03 2013 05:21 BloodyC0bbler wrote: You are advocating me (i know I am town) and Ace who is either 3p or town, and hopeless who given the context of the last few pages could easily be town or mafia. However Given I know you don't give two shits now about finding scum in any logical manner and have been trying to get Ace lynched first off this list (because he might be 3rd off a ton of wifom bullshit). You go first. No town member should be advocating a potential 3rd party player when we have mafia still alive. Especially when said potential third party has been pushing mafia lynches a fair bit this game. The only one who would give two shits about mafia dying quickly is rita skeeter as she wins if the game ends on any sides victory. Plain and simple you are mafia. I cannot believed I have waffled so much about this all game. Read this post against and tell me just how much like bullshit it sounds. Completely ridiculous. | ||
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Note that I've already given my read of everyone in the game in my filter, a day ago, and I have little reason to change any of it, except now I would say Artanis is more likely town than before. | ||
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The only downside to claiming is that you'll 100% be shot tonight if you do it before the day post, but if you wait until after, we might not get the chance to know. I would claim, because I think I know who it is, and if I can figure it out, mafia probably can as well. You'll literally be giving us a PRIZED piece of the puzzle here, as confirming one of those two is fucking amazing. So do it. Thus ends the concrete portion of today's analysis of the game state. Next, I want to think about a notion I've been considering since Ace flipped third party, and one that may lead to a more complete understanding of the game. It's speculative, but it's interesting. What does Ace flipping third party give us in terms of information? Normally, I don't think it would give much, because neither mafia nor town can know Ace's alignment, so it's possible that mafia vote for him just like town, right? Wrong. It's in mafia's best interest to have KP like a third party poisoner floating around, especially in a scenario like the one we're in now, where town vastly outnumbers mafia. The scum team need all the help they can get, so if they think someone is serial poisoner, they might shy away from lynching him. So that brings me to this post from Sharrant: On May 03 2013 05:02 Sharrant wrote: The only exception to the following is thus: You think Ace is mafia and bussed 2 of his teammates, and possibly a third. No, it's quite demonstrably anti-town to lynch Ace. It's been explained several times. There are three situations where you lynch Ace: One: At least one night before LyLo. Two: If the jailer dies to a night kill. Even if the jailer dies to a night kill, Ace will still be RB'ed and thus cannot kill anyone, and he can be lynched without losing any townies. Three: We have 5 dead mafia and the game has not ended. Why do you people not understand this? Ace is not in any way shape or form confirmed third party. He is the only candidate that could be third party (aside from a survivor) but lynching him is ANTI-TOWN. Lynching him now means we give another night to the mafia members in return for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Unless our jailer pops up and goes "I'm not RB'ing Ace tonight" then there's no reason to lynch him. On top of that, IT'S ENTIRELY POSSIBLE HE'S NOT THIRD PARTY. If there's a scum Vigi still left alive (which is just as likely in my books as Ace being mafia just due to set up analysis) it would explain the exact same scenario we are in. So anyone not looking at that like it's a possibility is either not using their brain, or is mafia trying to push an agenda. Whether or not he's third party, it is not good town play to lynch him. He still may be town, and either way he's one of the stronger analysts in the game. I'd rather have the counsel of a man who knows he is doomed to lose, than potentially kill a townie AND waste time not killing mafia when Ace is already a completely solved situation. TLDR; There's never a situation in which Ace kills a townie unless our jailer dies AND we spend the following day not lynching Ace. Ace is a bad lynch today. I don't want to have to argue this anymore, I'm going to go read stuff, and if anyone tries to dispute this and cannot prove even a single specific scenario where this breaks down, I will just assume you're mafia and go from there because you will be pushing anti-town agendas with the knowledge that it has no benefit to town, and only helps mafia. Most of this is, on its face, reasonable. Actually, I'm pretty sure that Sharrant here believes it to be fine and dandy that Ace not be lynched, and I have a town read on Sharrant. But the notion he spreads here is another thing that is pro-mafia, when you think about it. Keeping Ace perma-jailed actually leaves town more vulnerable to KP than lynching him, because with the town jailer locked up, mafia KP is assuredly going to hit town. Now like I said, I think Sharrant is town. But the idea is there nonetheless, mafia have a clear motive for keeping Ace alive, even if he's confirmed third party. And who argued to keep Ace alive and not lynch him, despite believing him to be third party? Hopeless. At the bottom of page 215, you'll find a conversation between him and I about lynching Ace. I argue for the possibility, and he argues against it. I ask a very straightforward question, one that is at the root of the town win con: why should I, as town, care whether I'm lynching mafia or anti-town third party? Both of those groups have to die for town to win. Yet Hopeless disagrees. Why? It's because he's mafia, showing his true colors. Another interesting notion that goes along with Ace being third party is BC's read of him. If BC believed Ace to be third party, as he claimed to have done the whole game, why did he never push for his lynch? He doesn't care enough about the game to push his reads, even when he is here. I think he mentioned Ace being third party once, the whole game. Why didn't he try to persuade town to lynch him, if he felt that way throughout? Because he's been fixated on me the whole game, using some of town's suspicion of me as an excuse for a scum read to skate by. He doesn't care about solving the game, he cares about not getting lynched. That's why I thought he was survivor, but there are people who play scum the same way. Perhaps BC is one of them. All in all, the Ace flip only makes me more confident in my reads. I could be wrong, I admit, but I doubt it. | ||
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You're delusional if you think that's scummy. | ||
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I find it funny that you want to reject logic that might confirm you as town with the JK business. | ||
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On May 05 2013 02:52 BloodyC0bbler wrote: and we lose the jk who is as far as we know the only person able to deflect mafia kp. so we trade someone who can extend the game for a few days if it goes badly for one guy who will get shot the following night. I'll take that trade, because you/Palmar are the remaining question marks. | ||
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Why the fuck are you arguing against confirming 2 town this late in the game? | ||
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On May 05 2013 02:55 BloodyC0bbler wrote: how is me not wanting the jk to get shot bad logic? You think i am scum. say jk comes out and i get confirmed as town? i get shot right after he does. if it looks like the person he knows is town by your logic ever looks like they are going to get lynched then claiming isn't a bad idea but doing it during a night phase is dumb as fuck. The longer he waits, the more likely it is that mafia shoot him. If he gets shot before he claims, we lose this information. There's little reason to wait, because the game is basically SOLVED. | ||
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On May 05 2013 02:58 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Again if he is almost lynched then he can claim. Also against confirming? This game is about finding mafia no? Yes clearing town is helpful as fuck, but If Palmar and I are on the right track with our thinking then what does it matter? Currently we arent lynching either myself or palmar so why dont you do what he and i are doing and assume for the moment both he and i are town. Because I lynch mafia, and you are very likely to be mafia. Either way, I'd rather lynch hopeless today, but the BC/Palmar situation could be resolved in reality, and not some pretend fantasy world so long as the JK claims and clears one of you. | ||
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On May 05 2013 03:02 BloodyC0bbler wrote: and whats your solution if the town jk protected palmar and I get confirmed as town? Lynch him? because I am not as sure of him anymore. There doesn't have to be a mafia in the two of us, we just assumed there did. I would feel it likely that the one we don't clear is actually mafia, yes. You two are among the last few people I'm worried about in this game at all. | ||
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On May 05 2013 13:19 Sharrant wrote: Whether or not it happened, to discount scum jailing one of their own on day as "very improbable" is unwise in my opinion. Jailer claiming would give us one confirmed townie, then a dead townie the following night and no protection from that point on. And it wouldn't give us another confirmed townie because scum no doubt put more than two seconds thought into their night one jail. If they did that, they'd first come to your conclusion, and then realize that they only had probably 1/3 chance of hitting a role that would be hampered by a role block, and that they could use their own roleblock for town cred. Now it doesn't matter whether they did that or not, because just the fact that they could have done that means that you can't confirm a second person from a jailer claim. Thus I urge the jailer not to claim. Yes, you can, because scum wouldn't jail their own N1. Stopping a cop/other jailer is so much more important than the "town cred" from a N1 roleblock. | ||
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On May 05 2013 14:20 Sharrant wrote: Then how do you explain both of the people roleblocked on night one being alive? Surely if a vet would be considered confirmed town after such an action, the mafia would have had to kill him as quickly as possible, even if they were a mislynch possibility just based on the fact that the jailer could claim. The jailer wouldn't claim until a situation like this, and the chances of the jailer and the scum target both being alive, plus the scum jailer dead at this point in the game are relatively low. All of those things are required for this to be successful. You don't go in to a game, especially on N1 after a mislynch, assuming that your roleblock could somehow later on confirm a townie. You go in trying to stop a cop or a JK from getting off their night actions. It's not that difficult to understand. You're making this far too complicated. It's simple. Town JK roleblocked someone night 1, and he did it trying to protect them. That says nothing about their alignment. Scum used JK on someone night 1 trying to stop a night action, and that makes that person CONFIRMED not mafia. | ||
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On May 06 2013 04:35 TheRavensName wrote: SCum could have just as easily shot Ace Night 1 or double stacked to get rid of the potential veteran. I would rather not lose the JK. Thats just me. I'm starting to think you are mafia. | ||
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On May 06 2013 04:39 Sharrant wrote: He brings up a legitimate point, and that's what sparks your interest in him as mafia? I disagree about the double stacking, but it's perfectly possible they hit Ace on night one. Mafia players obviously had no traction on day 2, how could they swing the lynch onto him? Besides, what if the jailer is Geript? We'd lose a confirmed townie just to play the wifom game some more on night actions from day one. Because the jailer claim has nothing to do with who scum shot, it has to do with who they jailed. He's obviously not even paying close attention to the thread. And no, it's not a WIFOM game. You're being bad by suggesting it is. Scum jailed a townie night one, and we can figure out who that is if the town jailer claims. The fact that it's one of BC/Palmar is fucking invaluable information. Stop trying to argue against this. | ||
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I'm going afk. Think seriously about what I've said, because it's the best thing anyone could possibly do today. I know what I'm talking about. You've never even been mafia. | ||
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Apparently I'm mafia with Hopeless, LOLOLOLOL. | ||
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On May 06 2013 09:56 GiygaS wrote: God damnit, looking through on kush (who I thought was uber disinterested mafia) makes me suspect yamato which would invalidate my read on Hopeless! This is confusing  This is the post that really got me (kush pointed this out before me): Soft defense on the two scum that were up for lynching makes yamato look really bad. This case was rejected by Ace (who was probably pushing mafia agenda at this point to avoid being the last non-town left), but advocated by BC and praised by VE. This post is then ignored for the rest of the game. I sort of want to go through Yamato's filter now and see what's up, but at the very least I'm unvoting from Hopeless until I figure this out. That post isn't about "defending scum" it's about giving real discussion on other players besides Clarity/Shiao. It's advocating a longer day. It's doubting a quick lynch. All of these things actually happened after this post, too. If you'll notice, I suspected both of them the night before, and ended the day with my vote on Shiao, despite the majority consensus of lynching Clarity. This one post looks bad out of context. It's been talked about before, but it doesn't mean what you think it means. | ||
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On May 06 2013 10:21 Sharrant wrote: Please show me exactly where ShiaoPi was overcome with excitement in his filter. Show me where there's even a hint of emotion. That's not the point. The point is that he could have just been bad. There's town explanations for every vote. The fact that my initial gut reaction of calling him mafia for it was right doesn't mean some townie wouldn't do the exact same thing. I wanted to talk about other people. I was successful in getting other players' opinions on Ace/BC/Palmar. I will stand by my intentions. The fact that you're fixated on a meaningless detail of one post in my filter that was taken out of context is ridiculous. Reread the game, because you'll obviously see my actual motive unfold in the conversation that followed that post. | ||
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20 pages of filter and more analysis of this game than all of you, yet I'm still getting called mafia. | ||
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On May 06 2013 10:56 Sharrant wrote: He's at L-2, as long as the rest of the people that come into the thread think about things, there's no reason to do anything to defend him right now. I'll try something different here. Yamato: I am telling you that your own analysis will tell you, in the end, that BC is not scum if you stick to what you've said. Now talk to me about two people that would be scum if BC were as good as confirmed town. Palmar/Hopeless. I might rethink my town read of kush, but only if they both flip town. Palmar's claim is convenient. It's also sub-par for what I expect from Palmar, because it was objectively bad and he's not bad enough as town, I believe, to actually make that claim and expect to be taken seriously. There's also all the other stuff I've said about Palmar and his RB claim, plus my general doubts about his play. I've been letting it skate by because of my read of BC, but if I'm wrong about BC, Palmar is literally the next scummiest person, and he looks fairly bad. Hopeless I've talked about ad nauseum. He tryharded yesterday to look involved, but today he's done little to interact with town, as he has all game. Notably, Palmar also didn't want to lynch Hopeless yesterday because "he had some argument and it made him look townie" which is weak. I've been saying that these three (Palmar/BC/Hopeless) are the only ones I'm worried about for a reason. I've been asking for the claim for a reason, because confirming one of Palmar/BC virtually solves the game. Unless one of these two flips town, I have no reason to doubt the analysis I've made of this game. | ||
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On May 06 2013 16:59 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm lost. Yamato, BM, geript, tell me what to do. Pretty sure we aren't killing BC today. Would rather see Palmar or Hopeless hang. | ||
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On May 06 2013 17:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote: If he fakes a green check, he's claiming insane so he's going to have to actually make up alignments as he goes along, if any of them flip and aren't what they're supposed to be then it'll implicate him. We can choose for him whom we want him to check. If he's red, we know we can disregard the entire check. The problem is, he knows everyone's alignment. So he can just keep "checking" townies to stay alive. I'd rather just lynch him. | ||
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On May 06 2013 17:15 Artanis[Xp] wrote: We can choose for him whom he has to check. If he refuses, we lynch him. In what scenario do you think a scum Palmar is going to lie about his check/sanity in an obvious enough way to get caught? This, in no way, helps us figure out Palmar's true alignment. | ||
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This plan is bad. We should just lynch Palmar. | ||
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What kind of cop cares so little about figuring out his sanity in a game like this that he not only claims after one check, but also FORGETS TO SEND IN A CHECK after having not even confirmed his own sanity? Palmar is not this bad at mafia. | ||
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But hey, who does that nowadays, right? | ||
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He's the only person besides Hopeless, and perhaps you, that I would consider mafia. | ||
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On May 07 2013 01:54 Palmar wrote: hey yamato, explain why you want to lynch me please. I've been talking about reasons I don't like you this game for days. | ||
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On May 07 2013 01:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote: He claims to have an information role. I wish for him to live another day to acquire said information. ...this is scummy how? Because the information it supposedly gains us is only useful if he's town, and it's not even necessarily that useful in the first place. | ||
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On May 07 2013 01:58 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Also if I'm scum with Palmar why the hell would I want you off the table when Hopeless flips town? So you look good when everyone else decides to lynch me? | ||
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On May 07 2013 02:01 Palmar wrote: I've gone back about 5 days in your filter and literally the only reasoning is that you expect me to use my role in a certain fashion and I don't do that. Do you think that makes me scum? I expect you to not be the second worst cop I've ever seen, yes. | ||
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On May 07 2013 02:04 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Yes, and there's no downside to letting him live for a day more to have a practically confirmed BC in case he IS town. When Palmar flips and he flips green BC is in a whole lotta shit. If we confirm he's insane and not paranoid and he flips cop then we might not actually end up killing BC, saving us a potential mislynch. Fair point, but I won't let you get lynched. I'll have to mull it over. I guess I'm fine with killing off Hopeless today, but something feels off about the lynch. I don't like how everyone has now invented desire to lynch Hopeless. | ||
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No longer do I have faith in you being town. Your cop claim is alignment null AT BEST, and so is the rest of your play. At worst, it's pretty fucking scummy. You checked OO, supposedly to confirm your own sanity, and then VE, I suppose in the same pursuit? It seems convenient that you checked VE the night he gets shot by mafia. But as I said before, you've constructed a possible narrative to you not being mafia; you're just bad at cop. Why should I believe you? I have no reason to trust the word of Palmar this game. | ||
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On May 07 2013 03:53 Palmar wrote: "I don't think you've done anything like mafia would do, or acted like mafia, but you're probably mafia anyway" I don't even know how to argue with this. No, it means you haven't given me any reason to think you're town, and lategame, that's a fucking gigantic problem. In the games I have played with you when you lived past night 1, I could easily read you as town. Most day 1's I can read you as town. I haven't had a solid town read on you the entire game. That's a problem, Palmar. It's enough for me to want to hang you this late in the game. | ||
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On May 07 2013 03:32 TheRavensName wrote: Perhaps when someone is actually a threat and likely to get protection. Vivax just lead a mislynch, which made protection quite unlikely. i don't see why Mafia would throw away their only gauranteed night of double shooting with how much of their team was afk/under suspicion. Just because someone was wrong about the lynch they led on day 1 does not make them a bad shot. Vivax was an unexpected NK, but I don't think anyone was suspicious of him whatsoever. It's important for scum to keep people like Vivax dead. If town is listening to someone, even if that person is wrong at that time, you should kill them. You never let town form a cohesive group. That's what the Vivax/Rayn/OO NKs were all about. No one suspected them, and they were listened to, to a certain extent. | ||
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WoS would also be first time scum, and he's too active for that. He's too involved. He's claimed miller within a reasonable context. Not what I'd expect from first time scum. Sharrant is highly involved in the game. and seems genuinely interested in figuring out the game. He's also the only person mafia Clarity ever talked about, which would be weird for his scum mate. I believe Sharrant would be another first-timer, so unless he's a prodigy, he's town. TRN is a mason, and I have little reason to be suspicious of him. When he masoned me, he seemed to want to figure me out, as he had apparently done with geript. Town. Geript is town because I understand how he thinks. I was just in a Hydra with him not long ago. His perspective on the game is similar to what I saw there. He's a little tunnelish, and genuinely doesn't understand my play this game. I believe it. Artanis is also likely town (unless my conspiracy theory comes true) because of how involved he's been in the game since yesterday. He's attempting to figure the game out in a rational way. I have little real reason to suspect him outside of interfering with me wanting to lynch you. BC is town because either you or him is confirmed town, because of what I've talked about his game, and right now I'm working under that assumption. BM is town because he's still playing the game. In Boardwalk, his activity fell off a cliff and he stopped trying later in the game when he realized the scum team's chances were shot. In a similar situation this game. he's still trying. Not to mention, day 1 he tried to talk sense to me in my trollish state. Easily town. Giygas is town through sheer effort. He's tryharding to figure out this game. I don't even have to explain this, it's so obvious. Kush I might be wrong about, but he seems genuine when he just wants a lynch. His accusation of me felt like an accusation town Kush would believe in. He's also not hardbussing, as far as I can see, so he's not mafia. Real heuristics, applied realistically. That leaves you and Hopeless, Palmar. Without your claim, there's nothing to point toward you being town, and the claim is ass. | ||
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On May 07 2013 04:38 TheRavensName wrote: My point wasn't they wouldn't kill him. My point was they wouldn't doublestack. They quite possibly could, yes. They also could have shot Ace. You can't just call Palmar confirmed town when scum often doublestack, and you can't even be sure Palmar got hit if they didn't. | ||
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On May 07 2013 08:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote: dude this means you, me, ace, ve, have all read him as scum. Unless he is the single worst player in the world hes gotta be scum -_- 2/4 of those people aren't town. Good company you keep. Whatever, if you guys actually get close to lynching me, I will out the JK and hammer myself. This game has officially gone full retard. | ||
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On May 07 2013 08:32 Hopeless1der wrote: I'm a good little sheep ##Unvote: BloodyC0bbler ##Vote: yamato77 Baaah Anyone who actually wants to win the game can look at this post and Palmar's shitpost and realize they are both scum. | ||
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On May 07 2013 08:38 BloodyC0bbler wrote: given that you have been calling me mafia all game and auto 180ed i find it hard to believe you. Also if you out the jk and he is town like we all expect you would be actively breaking the rule of play to win. Apparently no one is reading the thread closely enough anyway, but that doesn't surprise me. Why would I, as scum, suddenly not want to lynch you when multiple people were ready to do so? Use your brain, please. | ||
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On May 07 2013 08:48 BloodyC0bbler wrote: you are my top scum read, youd be lynched the moment i flipped town. Read the day's posts again. Look at why I changed my read. Realize the truth that is Palmar is scum. | ||
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On May 07 2013 08:59 kushm4sta wrote: I find this yamato push absolutely ridiculous. Are you sure BC and palmar can't be scum together? It seems unlikely, given the N1 roleblocks. | ||
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On May 07 2013 09:05 Hopeless1der wrote: I thought we were lynching me. Didn't I just claim scum? You both did. | ||
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On May 07 2013 09:06 kushm4sta wrote: I dont like this. Out of the two Palmar seems more likely to be dumb town. no flame meant by that palmar No. Palmar isn't the one who has been tunneled on me the entire game. He's called me town before this point. His reaction is because I called him scum, not because he actually is bad enough to think I'm scum. | ||
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On May 07 2013 09:07 kushm4sta wrote: dudes can we just lynch hopeless? that is the lynch im most comfortable with I think No, Palmar's going to get killed for calling me scum. It's what he deserves. | ||
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You guys wanna lose? Let's do this. | ||
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I resolve myself of responsibility for the outcome of this game. | ||
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On May 07 2013 08:32 Hopeless1der wrote: I'm a good little sheep ##Unvote: BloodyC0bbler ##Vote: yamato77 Baaah Like really, this inspires a town read on Hopeless? What the fuck, Sharrant. | ||
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I won't out the JK, but I will hammer myself. Maybe you will listen to me when I'm dead. | ||
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On May 07 2013 12:29 BloodyC0bbler wrote: aside from defend yourself all game you really havent done much. Factor in game sabotage if you are "town" and its pretty clear you have to go LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL I handed you scum on a silver platter and you voted to lynch me. Go reread the game. | ||
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On May 07 2013 12:32 BloodyC0bbler wrote: which one? i recall ace giving us clarity, ve + CC giving us shiaopi, mods giving us tube, and virtually everyone thinking ace was likely 3p. Who did you give us? Hopeless and Palmar Their combined filter is smaller than mine, but I'm being lynched over the both of them. Fantastic. | ||
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You're obviously biased. There's no reasoning with you. I hope you regret your idiotic decision making today when I flip town. | ||
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On May 07 2013 12:38 Sharrant wrote: Actually, I'd like to take back that last message. I feel it was quite rude. Yamato, if either Hopeless or Palmar flips town, who do you think is next in line in scumminess? Maybe Artanis, maybe TRN. Honestly, all of those reads I'm apparently getting lynched over are real. Most of you seem town. I'm pretty convinced Palmar and Hopeless are mafia. | ||
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On May 07 2013 12:37 Sharrant wrote: If you gave us Palmar, if you analyzed him so hard, how could you have never realized that his claim was wrong? Not once did you even hint that, if he is a cop, his sanity was not confirmed as what he said it was. I've been sitting on that since the moment he checked OO, I was sure it was how it would go down, and I haven't even been particularly interested in Palmar aside from that point. I've realized his claim was fucking horrible for a while, yes. | ||
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On May 07 2013 12:55 BloodyC0bbler wrote: have you read the game? I have had a read on yamato all game, ve had that same read, ace had the same read, palmar is now saying it? We know the flip of two of those players already, 1 was town 1 was 3p, both are responsible for heavy pushing the votes where mafia were lynched. Ace played for the most part a very town oriented game. I am inclined to believe that 4 players all getting the same read on a player means the guy is likely what those 4 think 2 of those people aren't town, and VE can't read me for shit. Stop appealing to authority. Your play this game has been to tunnel a townie the whole game. By no stretch of the imagination can I control your awful read of me. | ||
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On May 07 2013 12:46 Sharrant wrote: I had similar thoughts about TRN potentially being mafia mason prior to being masoned with him. I have him as a very strong town read at this point. Artanis is someone I'm not particularly comfortable with, I can understand you on this one. What are your thoughts on GiygaS, and Stutters? I know you wrote little blurbs about them, I don't need much, just something a little more specific. Can you point me to a post or two you don't think scum stutters would have been able to make, or wouldn't thought of making. Can you point out a few things in GiygaS' filter that cemented the read as try hard townie for you? Stutters comes up every game, becuase he plays this way every game. Honestly, I would expect an objectively scummy post from him, but he's obviously reading the thread and understanding what's going on, so I have little reason to suspect him over people like Palmar and Hopeless. Giygas I'l look at, but he's not mafia. It's obvious. | ||
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On May 07 2013 13:01 BloodyC0bbler wrote: the only way you can know for a fact that one of myself or palmar is not town is because you are mafia with the other. IE you just claimed scum. You tunneled me virtually all game as well, i am a townie. 4 people having the same read of you is an indication with a problem of your play. Also don't bash VE, he was doing far better than you are. You defended two mafia he had a hand in lynching. No, it isn't. Whatever, lynch me, I'm done arguing with you. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
This game is just going to devolve until I die, obviously. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
This game has literally been a case of "tunnel yamato" by about ten different people this game. It gets old. I need a break. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On April 26 2013 00:12 yamato77 wrote: The reason I think Palmar might be mafia is delving a bit into WIFOM, but it's an interesting thought. The explanation of night actions that we know of is complicated, given that we have 1 role block unaccounted for and 1 KP unaccounted for. I will discuss here the relevant possibilities of all of the combination of events that could have led to the situation we are at now and discuss the likelihood of each event. 1) Palmar is role blocked by town JK and shot, and Vivax is shot, while scum JK either goes unused or was used on a scum player who did not claim it. I feel like this is not very likely. Scum would want to jail offensively, because they have no chance of blocking town KP on themselves or on another town. If true, however, Palmar is confirmed town. 2) Vivax was double-stacked and jailed, and Palmar was jailed by town. Palmar's alignment is unknown, but scum deny town a ton of information, as we see. RB+KP combo is a common mafia tactic for this reason. The variation that semi-confirms Palmar would be if town JK protected Vivax and scum offensively jailed Palmar, and Vivax was still double stacked. That feels more unlikely than the former. 3) Scum double stacked Vivax, role blocked Palmar, and town JK'd offensively and hit mafia, but they didn't claim. I feel this is unlikely, because a role block claim on N1 is a soft town claim, and town JK should be defensive N1 because you can't stop KP. 4) Scum KP was on Vivax and an Vet or SK/SP, who didn't claim being hit, scum JK went unused/used on mafia or was double stacked on Palmar with town JK. Town vet has no reason not to claim, as scum already know from claims that they are vet and can die tonight. Claiming might actually help keep confirmed town alive. Third party are fucked for this rationale, but would have claimed vet with the shot, I believe. This seems unlikely, based on claims so far. So unless there are claims of shots taken or role blocks notified that have yet to be made, it is either 1 or 2, with 2 being more likely in my opinion. Combined with Palmar's somewhat disinterested play, and his insistence that VE is mafia throughout the game while consenting to some of town's wagons, this makes me believe he might be mafia. Perhaps this is the truth even if VE is mafia, as Palmar's "push" of him feels weak, and the VE lynch has been successfully resisted twice now. Regardless of VE's alignment, then, Palmar should be looked upon with some degree of suspicion. I'd consider lynching him today. On April 26 2013 00:35 yamato77 wrote: The reason I'm running through all this is that I'm not particularly happy with any of the lynches that most of town is talking about. VE of yesterday feels somewhat town. I feel like more time would only bury scum VE or give chance to solidify a town read on VE. There's absolutely no rush for his lynch to be finalized. Shaio is easy to mislynch, as evidenced by the suspicion on him in day 2 of British Empire 1, also an instant lynch where he was lurkish, and eventually replaced. The worst part of his filter is the hammer sequence, but even that could be explained by overly eager town who got caught up in the game emotionally. Clarity is always inactive, and him being fixated on Sharrant is not alignment indicative. His case is objectively something that scum like to do, but in the context of the game, I can see a town Clarity who had a late start feeling the need to get his thoughts about the game on the table, even if they weren't about the main lynch candidates. The fact that he basically has no other reads in the game is a point in his favor, but just like VE, we can afford to play a waiting game with him, seeing as we have unlimited time. At the very least, we need real discussion about the alignments of Ace/BC/Palmar before we move forward with any lynch. Ace is the most town out of the three, and BC the least, in my eyes. I'd say a long day is in order, and town need to consolidate pressure upon just a few people so that we can determine their alignments more clearly. On April 27 2013 17:14 yamato77 wrote: So I kind of re-skimmed the thread and looked over what people have said, finally, and this post by Shiao is quite bad: Much has been said about this entrance, but it was horrible, for a number of reasons. While it can be reasonably assumed that he is actually busy, the amount of this post used to excuse his own inactivity is mind-blowing. He has no original thought about the game, and doesn't seem to care about giving us any valid reasons for voting for VE outside of Palmar's lackluster efforts in pushing for the lynch. And then there's the bolded, his "reaction" to the tube modkill, that sets something off in my head. It seems unnatural and forced to go "(lol btw!)" in the middle of this post. I'd be happy with lynching him, if we feel we need to consolidate on a lynch. I've advocated playing a waiting game, but I saw it mentioned that we've only really talked about lynching between him/Clarity today, and I agree, so perhaps it is best if we move on. Another thing I thought to look at was the WHOLE votecount from day 1, not just the Oats wagon: There are some changes to this: So the votecount itself is somewhat difficult to analyse, seeing as most people were either on me or Oats, but the people on Rayn do seem out of place, and it is even more weird that two of them managed to get themselves on to Oats before his lynch; Sylencia and Hopeless. Also note that Shiao's only vote of the whole day was the hammer on Oats. And people want to say that it isn't scummy? Yeah, no. But as before, there were multiple vote changes inbetween, and they are worth looking into. To begin why did Sylencia decide to change to Oats? Seems more of a case for voting for "bad town" than scum, which seems like a slip of a scum mindset, in my opinion. Why? Because it is something I run into as scum, how to formulate a read on a town player and call them scum so I can vote for them. Most of the time, it is "bad town" that get mislynched, so the difference becomes vague. Justifying a vote by saying that someone is "bad for town" is an easy scum out, because town players can and will be anti-town on many occasions. Yet this is Sylencia's mindset, and how he justifies the vote on Oats. Just from this voting analysis, I feel he might be mafia. I have yet to analyse his filter in totality, but given this, I will definitely give it a look. Hopeless. + Show Spoiler + Get it? Anyway, this is Wonder's SECOND EVER mention of Oatsmaster, and the first one where he gives any inclination of thinking him mafia. AMAZING! HOW DID HE REACH THIS SECRET CONCLUSION?!?!?! Wow. I'm not saying this is totally regurgitation of other people's arguments, but it is. This also come AFTER his vote, where he's fully aware that he's putting Oats one vote away from lynch. And then guess what happens... I unvote (temporarily delaying the lynch), Sylencia manages to vote AND: The hammer! This all happens within the span of ~2 hours, mind you, when I'm screaming at the thread not to lynch Oats. Say what you want about me, but all three of these votes are particularly HORRID, and all of them are either switches off Rayn (a wagon that seems inherently scummy, in that people that switched off it didn't seem to change their read on him much) or the player's first vote of the game. Is there a chance they are town? Sure. I'd probably say Sylencia has the most chance to be town, since when compared to the other two, his vote looks the MOST explained, despite the fishy nature of the post. The other two, however, give very little indication that they think Oats is mafia before they vote, and the hammer in particular looks like TEXTBOOK MAFIA trying to find a good reason to just lynch a town. Notably, I did something JUST like this day 1 of British Empire 1 (also instant majority), where I fabricated suspicion of a town-created wagon on a town player and managed to hammer him for the lynch. Only this is even worse, and more obvious, because they didn't even manage to look like they thought about it before obviously putting Oats in danger of, and actually being lynch. That's VCA done right, bros. And from it, I find the willingness to lynch the fuck out of Shiapi, because this is bullshit. No matter how much post-hoc justification he gives, there is only mafia motivation to be seen in what he has done. On May 01 2013 14:26 yamato77 wrote: Hopeless. He's mafia. Lynch him. OO/WoS/TRN/Gigyas/VE/Kush seem town enough to eliminate them. Ace/Palmar/BC - will never speak about again. If I had a choice, I would RNG between them and lynch ruthlessly. Sharrant/Artanis/Stutters all possible mafia. On May 01 2013 14:37 yamato77 wrote: Sharrant has the whole "Clarity made a case on him as he entered" thing, which I find unlikely for mafia Clarity to do to his scumbuddy. Much more likely Sharrant is town, even if he is relatively inactive. Artanis replaced Drazak, who was a lurky, inactive player as mafia in Hydra. Perhaps this trend carried over to this game, and he rolled mafia again? Is Drazak known for being inactive as town? Artanis also suffers from the same syndrome mafia DarthPunk did in Personality 2, one of complete apathy upon replacing in, and excusing his lack of contribution with the idea that he's "still catching up." He is also one of a very few people who have correctly read my alignment. Is that just an attempt to buddy me, or is he actually like CC and Palmar in that he has a brain? Difficult to tell in this town. Seems like a good candidate to pressure for lynch, because if town, he might actually do something. He is relatively decent at scum, however, so he may be difficult to hammer home. Stutters replaced DH, who I think is just AWOL from the forum altogether. Stutter's inactivity is typical of his play, so there's literally nothing alignment indicative about it. What he has said in the thread seems logical enough, and it would be his first scum game ever, so it's probably better to treat him as if he's town until there is some indication that he isn't. Not a good lynch, because it's 75/25 that he's town, IMO. So it's Hopeless/Artanis as possible mafia left out of the "non-vet" group. Next I'll take a serious look at the vet group and determine the actual possibilities that lie therein. On May 01 2013 14:39 yamato77 wrote: Oh, Bill Murray. I kinda want to think he's town off his day 1, but he's been real AFK since, and he had this penchant of a disappearing act late in the game as mafia in Boardwalk as well. His alignment is difficult to ascertain with any certainty because of this dichotomy. On May 01 2013 14:58 yamato77 wrote: BC/Palmar seem like they should both be dead. In most of the games I have played with them, they are high-priority NK targets and usually dead by now. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen either of them live this long in a game I've played with them. Regardless of me being paranoid about the alignments of the veteran players or not, something is suspect about this. the analysis that says that there is a vet who wants to hide among the alive vets seems accurate, and it only becomes more damning when one considers that ALL of the NKs we have seen have been on mid/low-tier players in terms of activity and skill level. By this same logic, it seems odd that Ace is alive. While all of these players have been under some degree of suspicion this game, this fact hasn't stopped scum teams from shooting high-priority targets before. Out of the three mentioned, Ace seems like the least likely to be mafia, simply from activity levels and attitude about the game. But he also has a reputation as a legendary scum player, so it is difficult for me to cognitively cross him off my list of suspects, and my conspiracy theories only serve to move him further null in my mind. It may be a decent idea to ignore him for a short while until we get more information about the alignments of the other two. So back to Palmar/BC; I find it more likely that Palmar is town than BC. Palmar, while relatively inactive, has attempted at times to push his own agenda in lynching VE, good or bad. He's also had a believable narrative in checking/claiming a red check on BC. Is he capable of this sort of play as mafia? It's possible, but I feel it likely that Palmar is actually telling the truth that he simply cba to do anything. It's an illness that often strikes Palmar. BC doesn't seem to have pushed for anyone's lynch but mine this whole game. From my perspective, this is hilariously weak, since I know I'm town. It's unfortunate that his schedule restricts him from being active most of the time people are attempting to decide upon lynches. His strongest stance since saying I'm scum is saying that Palmar is, which seems to be in line with general town sentiment. But I've never seen BC play past D1/N1, so I can't know if this play is his typical town play or not. I will say that in the games I have played with him, he seems more assertive about his reads and more aggressive in hunting them. I'm not getting that feeling this game, especially as the game wears on. Out of the two, I would lynch BC. I'd much rather lynch Hopeless, however, over either of them. I'll take a better look at his voting patterns throughout the game and come to a much more defined conclusion. On May 01 2013 15:29 yamato77 wrote: Hopeless' Official Vote Filter Go on, look at it, it's short. He has 5 vote this game, and they are not spread evenly throughout the days. I'm going to match them to the corresponding reasons he gives in thread and analyse his voting strategy this game, all in chronological order to see how it's changed, or hasn't, over time. DAY 1 This post has been given as reason for hopeless being town, because it shows effort. I disagree. Most of the things Hopeless argues about in this post are completely pointless, and none of it has almost any bearing on anyone's alignment. Again, I'll break it down. 1) VE shouldn't be a town read because everyone had to look at the OP for their role, or whatever. I don't even understand what he's arguing here, and he doesn't pursue it. It's a non-issue, and it seems more like he's defending himself for doing what he did than actually pushing any sort of suspicion on VE. It's stupid, and not worth talking about. 2) Vivax gave out too many "free town reads" or whatever with his "no scum have posted before this!" post. What the fuck, who cares. Why does he care what Vivax is doing with his reads this game, unless he thinks he is mafia? It's an absurd argument, and again pointless. Just as pointless to argue that Palmar is suspicious for giving Vivax a townread over it. Another thing that seems self-serving, in that it's defending his contributions this game. 3) He's shutting down town reads of people. That point actually seems true, since that's most of what he's talked about. Valid criticism, but not all that damning. 4) The case on Rayn, which was woefully short and inadequate. Not only do we have the luxury of knowing that he was wrong here, but his arguments aren't even that strong. He takes a couple of posts out of context in an argument between Rayn and Sharrant, and calls Rayb mafia because they sound odd, or something to that effect. It's largely bogus, and Hopeless is obviously just taking sides in a town vs. town war and hoping to fan the flames. I view this as a point against him, not for him. So when we break that post down, it's actually fairly apparent that his contribution esd largely self-serving, and have fairly clear mafia motivations. He wants to clear his image and appear to be "scumhunting" while he argues over town reads, so he slaps an ill-thought-out case down on Rayn and proceeds to do little else day 1. This is his only other vote on Day 1, and as I analysed before, it's a shit vote with literally no prior explanation, and one that should have been taken more seriously. Hopeless CLEARLY understands that this puts Oats at real risk of being hammered, but there's no prior indication from his filter that he's considered this fact at all. The only justification comes AFTERWARD, which is too little too late. You can judge for yourselves how you feel about this, but I will note that Shiao's vote was ALSO justified largely post-hoc, and I also analysed that vote to be mafia motivated for the same reasons. And look what he flipped. DAY 2: In the Sharrant vs. Clarity thing that happaned day 2, Hopeless took the side of mafia, after having taken Sharrant's side day 1. Purely as an association case, this looks horrible, but when you consider that Hopeless' read of Sharrant changed so drastically overnight, it becomes even more suspicious. I'm not at all impressed with this vote. ...Why? Post-hoc justification, yet again. He stays consistent in that he "didn't trust Sharrant" so he didn't vote for Clarity. But what did he do? He defended Shiao's image to the thread and threw shit at the people on his wagon. Why? Who the fuck knows. Before now, I see almost zero mention of Shiao and his read on him, except that he's "willing to hammer him". Not looking great for Hopeless here in this department. Day 3... Nothing. While we did lynch quick, he made no vote. A non-issue, I suppose. Day 4: Follows along with town's plan, altogether blending in. Overall, it's fairly clear to me how little Hopeless cares about finding a good lynch. He doesn't spend much effort in the thread trying to discern people's alignments, and his votes on Day 1+2 look highly suspect. Just from looking at these posts, and some context in his filter, it's easy to discern that Hopeless is mafia. On May 04 2013 17:32 yamato77 wrote: First of all, I want to make an immediate point. On night one, there were two role blocks. We've seen a mafia JK flip. We know he was responsible for one, and that person is confirmed not mafia. The other one could very well be the result of a town JK, and that person's alignment would still be unknown. However, by process of elimination, if the town JK claims, we have two confirmed town, and one of them is Palmar/BC. The only downside to claiming is that you'll 100% be shot tonight if you do it before the day post, but if you wait until after, we might not get the chance to know. I would claim, because I think I know who it is, and if I can figure it out, mafia probably can as well. You'll literally be giving us a PRIZED piece of the puzzle here, as confirming one of those two is fucking amazing. So do it. Thus ends the concrete portion of today's analysis of the game state. Next, I want to think about a notion I've been considering since Ace flipped third party, and one that may lead to a more complete understanding of the game. It's speculative, but it's interesting. What does Ace flipping third party give us in terms of information? Normally, I don't think it would give much, because neither mafia nor town can know Ace's alignment, so it's possible that mafia vote for him just like town, right? Wrong. It's in mafia's best interest to have KP like a third party poisoner floating around, especially in a scenario like the one we're in now, where town vastly outnumbers mafia. The scum team need all the help they can get, so if they think someone is serial poisoner, they might shy away from lynching him. So that brings me to this post from Sharrant: Most of this is, on its face, reasonable. Actually, I'm pretty sure that Sharrant here believes it to be fine and dandy that Ace not be lynched, and I have a town read on Sharrant. But the notion he spreads here is another thing that is pro-mafia, when you think about it. Keeping Ace perma-jailed actually leaves town more vulnerable to KP than lynching him, because with the town jailer locked up, mafia KP is assuredly going to hit town. Now like I said, I think Sharrant is town. But the idea is there nonetheless, mafia have a clear motive for keeping Ace alive, even if he's confirmed third party. And who argued to keep Ace alive and not lynch him, despite believing him to be third party? Hopeless. At the bottom of page 215, you'll find a conversation between him and I about lynching Ace. I argue for the possibility, and he argues against it. I ask a very straightforward question, one that is at the root of the town win con: why should I, as town, care whether I'm lynching mafia or anti-town third party? Both of those groups have to die for town to win. Yet Hopeless disagrees. Why? It's because he's mafia, showing his true colors. Another interesting notion that goes along with Ace being third party is BC's read of him. If BC believed Ace to be third party, as he claimed to have done the whole game, why did he never push for his lynch? He doesn't care enough about the game to push his reads, even when he is here. I think he mentioned Ace being third party once, the whole game. Why didn't he try to persuade town to lynch him, if he felt that way throughout? Because he's been fixated on me the whole game, using some of town's suspicion of me as an excuse for a scum read to skate by. He doesn't care about solving the game, he cares about not getting lynched. That's why I thought he was survivor, but there are people who play scum the same way. Perhaps BC is one of them. All in all, the Ace flip only makes me more confident in my reads. I could be wrong, I admit, but I doubt it. Good luck, town. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On May 07 2013 13:20 BloodyC0bbler wrote: disagree with you completely. D3 can't be blamed on ace given that the dt who made the check believed sylencia was mafia over shiaopi. If you look at ace all day 2 he thought if clarity flipped mafia shiao was innocent. He followed through on that. Caught d5 based on roleblocks is only half true. he was suspected of being 3p for ages and because he didnt claim survivor he got shafted for it. Also given that yamato has not really done anything major this game, its not eliminating a good player. It also doesn't make yamato more likely to be town. I've done over 10x the analysis of the game you have. It's a statement of complete ignorance to say I've done nothing. You've literally done NOTHING but call me scum this game. Nothing. Good play, BC. You're a TOP PLAYER FOR SURE | ||
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On May 07 2013 13:21 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Also those "relevant posts" you quoted are horrible yamato -_- Lol, you're horrible. | ||
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On May 07 2013 13:20 TheRavensName wrote: B that logic, Palmar is even more innocent. Ace was pushing Palmar after Mafia was pretty far behind. Ace said Palmar's name in a list. He pushed nothing. This means nothing. | ||
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yamato77
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How fucking unaware are you of this game to believe that? Bad. | ||
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On May 07 2013 13:28 TheRavensName wrote: To be fair, I don't think hes Mafia with you. I'm obviously taking shots at BC's ego here, leave me alone. | ||
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yamato77
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On May 07 2013 13:35 BloodyC0bbler wrote: thats only some of the really terrible shit you have in your filter. You are full of posts that scream "im scum lynch me" Lol, whatever. You have the same problem as Ace. You don't like how I play. I don't give a shit. | ||
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yamato77
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You just choose to ignore all the posts I've made that point toward Palmar/Hopeless. | ||
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I bet you haven't. I bet you're not even reading my posts today, because it's in there, and it's obvious. | ||
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yamato77
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On May 07 2013 13:45 BloodyC0bbler wrote: captain waffle saying his reads and filter are obvious. My god you are amazing. i am sure if i called virtually every player in the game at some point mafia I would have the most obvious filter. Lynch everyone and you win. Just do it in a random number generated order, or whichever name i happened to see first on a page as i skim and i will snag a red. Its so brilliant my narrative skills tells me its 100% foolproof. So you're not reading the thread? I guess I'll point it out to you, since you can't manage. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On May 04 2013 17:32 yamato77 wrote: First of all, I want to make an immediate point. On night one, there were two role blocks. We've seen a mafia JK flip. We know he was responsible for one, and that person is confirmed not mafia. The other one could very well be the result of a town JK, and that person's alignment would still be unknown. However, by process of elimination, if the town JK claims, we have two confirmed town, and one of them is Palmar/BC. The only downside to claiming is that you'll 100% be shot tonight if you do it before the day post, but if you wait until after, we might not get the chance to know. I would claim, because I think I know who it is, and if I can figure it out, mafia probably can as well. You'll literally be giving us a PRIZED piece of the puzzle here, as confirming one of those two is fucking amazing. So do it. Thus ends the concrete portion of today's analysis of the game state. Next, I want to think about a notion I've been considering since Ace flipped third party, and one that may lead to a more complete understanding of the game. It's speculative, but it's interesting. What does Ace flipping third party give us in terms of information? Normally, I don't think it would give much, because neither mafia nor town can know Ace's alignment, so it's possible that mafia vote for him just like town, right? Wrong. It's in mafia's best interest to have KP like a third party poisoner floating around, especially in a scenario like the one we're in now, where town vastly outnumbers mafia. The scum team need all the help they can get, so if they think someone is serial poisoner, they might shy away from lynching him. So that brings me to this post from Sharrant: Most of this is, on its face, reasonable. Actually, I'm pretty sure that Sharrant here believes it to be fine and dandy that Ace not be lynched, and I have a town read on Sharrant. But the notion he spreads here is another thing that is pro-mafia, when you think about it. Keeping Ace perma-jailed actually leaves town more vulnerable to KP than lynching him, because with the town jailer locked up, mafia KP is assuredly going to hit town. Now like I said, I think Sharrant is town. But the idea is there nonetheless, mafia have a clear motive for keeping Ace alive, even if he's confirmed third party. And who argued to keep Ace alive and not lynch him, despite believing him to be third party? Hopeless. At the bottom of page 215, you'll find a conversation between him and I about lynching Ace. I argue for the possibility, and he argues against it. I ask a very straightforward question, one that is at the root of the town win con: why should I, as town, care whether I'm lynching mafia or anti-town third party? Both of those groups have to die for town to win. Yet Hopeless disagrees. Why? It's because he's mafia, showing his true colors. Another interesting notion that goes along with Ace being third party is BC's read of him. If BC believed Ace to be third party, as he claimed to have done the whole game, why did he never push for his lynch? He doesn't care enough about the game to push his reads, even when he is here. I think he mentioned Ace being third party once, the whole game. Why didn't he try to persuade town to lynch him, if he felt that way throughout? Because he's been fixated on me the whole game, using some of town's suspicion of me as an excuse for a scum read to skate by. He doesn't care about solving the game, he cares about not getting lynched. That's why I thought he was survivor, but there are people who play scum the same way. Perhaps BC is one of them. All in all, the Ace flip only makes me more confident in my reads. I could be wrong, I admit, but I doubt it. On May 06 2013 13:38 yamato77 wrote: Palmar/Hopeless. I might rethink my town read of kush, but only if they both flip town. Palmar's claim is convenient. It's also sub-par for what I expect from Palmar, because it was objectively bad and he's not bad enough as town, I believe, to actually make that claim and expect to be taken seriously. There's also all the other stuff I've said about Palmar and his RB claim, plus my general doubts about his play. I've been letting it skate by because of my read of BC, but if I'm wrong about BC, Palmar is literally the next scummiest person, and he looks fairly bad. Hopeless I've talked about ad nauseum. He tryharded yesterday to look involved, but today he's done little to interact with town, as he has all game. Notably, Palmar also didn't want to lynch Hopeless yesterday because "he had some argument and it made him look townie" which is weak. I've been saying that these three (Palmar/BC/Hopeless) are the only ones I'm worried about for a reason. I've been asking for the claim for a reason, because confirming one of Palmar/BC virtually solves the game. Unless one of these two flips town, I have no reason to doubt the analysis I've made of this game. Put 2+2 together, BC. | ||
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On May 07 2013 13:49 BloodyC0bbler wrote: i just mocked your entire filter. Perhaps you should read it. You have advocated Number generated lynches Creative narrative on why people are red Called virtually every one mafia at least once or twice (waffling) You also mention you have skimmed. For someone who keeps yelling at people to read, maybe you should read your own "active" filter. you brag about your activity enough you should remember what you say Read the posts, and the quotes. It explains my entire play today, which you apparently can't understand. | ||
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yamato77
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On May 07 2013 13:55 BloodyC0bbler wrote: If mafia was a game based only on single days and not cumulative then maybe i could believe your play today. Given that if you look at it compared to the rest of your play it screams scum. you should know this. It does to you, because you're biased. If you don't understand that concept, you're in denial. You keep appealing to authority when Ace was 3P, VE can't read me, and Palmar is mafia. You sure are good at this game, buddy. | ||
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On May 07 2013 14:04 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Yea im just as good as you You know when you called me mafia, ve mafia, ace mafia, palmar mafia, shiaopi and clarity town / obvious misslynches, Vivax mafia when so far he had really good day 1 reads, said oats should be lynched then auto swapped away when VE who you called mafia jumped on the wagon, Rayn mafia, CC mafia, say you dont want to lynch hopeless now hes like your #1 read over the guy you tunneled all game, sylencia mafia, etc... here I will give you a quote from your own filter you should stand by That was day 1 when I was trolling. Lol, excuse me for not having 1 scumread the whole game like you, I guess that's how the pros do it. Oh, and never push the lynch until Palmar does it for you, either. Good play. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On May 07 2013 14:09 BloodyC0bbler wrote: You haven't seen me get into a full annoyance before. The guy is being an ass and antagonistic, and hes been shitting on players better than him all game. Even if I end up being horribly wrong, I respect people and he calls them bad, etc... when they have done more this game and overall and are far better players. I still believe hopeless is mafia. The only situation I can see mafia winning at this point is some insanely desperate move. In this case yamato bussing the last member of his team like a boss. If yamato dies, its unlikely hopeless dies for awhile and thus mafia can win, or vice versa. He has already shied away from me before trying to get him to be open about his reads, then he threatens to out blues, etc... If hes mafia nothing he will give us at this point is beneficial. People who are still not sure of him need to read his damn filter or every case brought up on him. I'VE BEEN OPEN ABOUT MY READS THE WHOLE GAME AND YOU WANT TO LYNCH ME FOR IT! DO YOU EVEN READ THE SHIT YOU TYPE? | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
So have you. Good fucking game. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On May 07 2013 14:14 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Yes Ve town Ace 3p clarity mafia shiao mafia Yep im wrong. Oats town Shaio scum Clarity scum Ace 3p I can list meaningless reads, too. | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
On May 07 2013 23:36 Palmar wrote: I've had an idea of who I think the town JK is for a while, that doesn't make me town. But idk, maybe yam is town, maybe he's scum. This game is way too hard. You people are sheeping a guy who says this about the lynch he's leading What the fuck | ||
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
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yamato77
11589 Posts
You had me waffling before. | ||
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