TL Mafia LXI

On April 11 2013 02:03 kushm4sta wrote:
@mocsta that wasn't me lol.
which mafia player is the best at sc2 i wonder?

On April 22 2013 09:10 kushm4sta wrote:


my name is spelled asdehfejnbfj NOT asdehfeitnkjf WTF GUIZ!!!
seriously if you name yourself some random letters, no one is going to spell your name right. so tired of people complaining about this. it is your own fault!

On April 22 2013 01:33 Hopeless1der wrote:

2/3, not bad. owaitshit

On April 22 2013 10:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Okay. Next question:


As this was your last post before that, the part where you mention Oats:


What made you vote for Oats now but not before? What has changed between these posts of yours?

On April 22 2013 10:18 Oatsmaster wrote:
Why is me being 'wrong' make me scummy giygas.

Also was me asking VE what made Palmar town trying to dissuade a town read, or trying to solidify my read?
What is the difference and why does that make me scummy?

On April 22 2013 10:21 kushm4sta wrote:
Giygas as your self appointed lawyer I must remind you that you do not have to answer any of these questions, as you have not yet been charged with a crime.

On April 22 2013 10:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:

The bolded part. How did you miss that's exactly what Hopeless is doing?

On April 22 2013 10:59 raynpelikoneet wrote:
GiygaS, are you okay with lynching Hopeless today?
Also i still don't understand what made you vote Oats when you did and not earlier.

On April 23 2013 10:04 Oatsmaster wrote:

Because fast lynching me, I flip town. So like Ego mafia where you dudes fast lynched Ace, no info no nothing bro.
##Unvote
##Vote: Yamato

On April 23 2013 10:08 Oatsmaster wrote:

You laughed. Admit it, you totally did.
What do you want to know(AH ASKING FOR HELP/QUESTIONS SO SCUMMY. i really dont know what you guys want )

On April 18 2013 15:15 ShiaoPi wrote:
screw my schedule :S
/unobs
/in

On April 22 2013 11:54 ShiaoPi wrote:

Raynepelikoneet: Nothing to see here.
TheRavensName: Just some noobing around.
Hopeless1nder: Also nothing of note here.

On April 23 2013 11:27 Clarity_nl wrote:
And more.... Not even indicating any read, just asking for reads from another player.
More of this:

On April 23 2013 06:03 Ace wrote:
oh ok. Infinite days are possible. Ignore the part about wasting our time then, even though you still need a more convincing case than "he plays different from this one time I saw him". That's just utter bullshit and won't convince anyone. No effort at all.

On April 23 2013 06:37 Ace wrote:
To all you people lurking the thread lets get some consensus going. Right now I've got my vote on yamato but Vivax's case on Oats looks like an even better lynch. These are our top two suspects at the moment and imo, our best 2. do not stall these fucking wagons unless you've got a really good case of your own. Else wise the discussion should be focused on these two for now. Arguments for/against either of them will be greatly appreciated.

On April 25 2013 15:37 getmoript wrote:
Giygas: NULLTown read x2, Prefers Oats but votes Yamato???, uses an odd heuristic, inactive

On April 26 2013 01:09 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
1) WaveofShadow
2) Grush57
3) Bill Murray
4) Stutters695
5) Kushm4sta
6) getmoript
7) ObviousOne
9) TheRavensName
11)GiygaS
12) raynpelikoneet
13) Ace
14) Tube
15) Artanis
16) Clarity_nl
18) Sharrant
19) Yamato77
20) ShiaoPi
21) Palmar
22) Hopeless1der
23) Sylencia
24) BloodyCobbler
25) VisceraEyes

The list of lists.

On April 26 2013 01:36 VisceraEyes wrote:
Re: lynching into Ace/BC/Palmar

Ehhhhhhhhhhh....I don't know if there's a case on BC somewhere that I'm missing, but is the fact that he's inactive right now a part of the case? And Ace is looking more town in this game than I've ever seen...but frankly that is a little disconcerting. :/

Ugh. I don't like the idea. I mean I'd lynch Palmar sure...but BC/Ace? Today? Seems silly. Scum will want them dead if they're town. In my opinion the fog should clear a little bit by tomorrow. I think tomorrow is a better time to make a lynch like that.

On April 26 2013 02:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:

You are voting for Ace because he looks town? And you just said at the last page BC is red and Ace is null. Can you explain the logic?

On April 26 2013 02:58 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why not let him be pro town and judge him if he gets scummy? Why not lynch someone who has been scummy the whole game in your eyes?

The place and even more the way you dropped your vote is really fishy. Why don't you want to lynch one of your red reads?

On April 26 2013 05:52 VisceraEyes wrote:
Something else that really bothers me is that a couple of times Palmar has talked about players who should be modkilled or how HE modkills in his games (like that's pertinent to finding scum in the LEAST anyway)




But when it comes to actual real modkillable offenses he's completely silent. Like tube's lack of posting for example. Why is Palmar ignoring tube, a player who has made literally one post in the game when Palmar has said the following?

On April 26 2013 08:24 VisceraEyes wrote:

Did it or did it not? What's your take? This post says nothing about your opinion.

On April 26 2013 08:26 VisceraEyes wrote:
Okay, meaningful in what way? Do you agree that Palmar looks scummy for it? Or did you mean that I look scummy for posting it? DETAILS GUY!

On April 26 2013 08:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:

And Clarity.

On April 26 2013 09:35 getmoript wrote:
Ok, so replace shitting on VE with shitting on Palmar. Does it make a real difference? Still shitting on someone for Tube and not on his scum read.

On April 23 2013 00:48 Palmar wrote:
also being inactive in this game is unusally scummy because BH sent a pm to everyone in the game 24 hours before the game started which required a response to be in the game.

So everyone here is fully aware when the game started and reminded of it very close to the start of the game. So being afk or saying nothing is almost inexcusable.

On April 23 2013 10:16 Palmar wrote:
am I the hammer? Cause I fucking love hammering


##unvote
##vote Oatsmaster

On April 26 2013 09:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Can you explain why you think Ace is scum or 3p?

On April 25 2013 15:59 GiygaS wrote:
- Ace:
People are saying he's scum because he's not been playing very well, and it's outside of his meta or something, so I decided to look through his filter.

- Was one of or the first to point out the obvious thing that maybe, just maybe, Bill Murray wasn't actually claiming.
- Something I noticed on day 1 is he seemed to not really react to posts for a while unless he was directly spoken to/about, or if there was an opportunity for a meme.
- Voted Yamato with little reasoning. He doesn't actually give much reasoning for much unless asked on. Could be a playstyle thing like he says though.
- Likes the oats cases, but provides reasoning for it.
- Found a contradiction here:


He wants us to take our time, and then really pushes hard for an oats/yamato hammer from there.
- But other than day 1, he's been town in my eyes. More recently, he's been contributing valuable info and insight. For that reason, I've got a null read on him. I then changed my opinion on this, saying he might have changed his play due to suspicions being on him

Going to bed now, will try and keep updated with my phone throughout the day tomorrow.

On April 26 2013 11:49 Ace wrote:
I do not push for an Oats/yamato hammer there. That is blatant lying.

On April 23 2013 06:37 Ace wrote:
To all you people lurking the thread lets get some consensus going. Right now I've got my vote on yamato but Vivax's case on Oats looks like an even better lynch. These are our top two suspects at the moment and imo, our best 2. do not stall these fucking wagons unless you've got a really good case of your own. Else wise the discussion should be focused on these two for now. Arguments for/against either of them will be greatly appreciated.

On April 23 2013 10:01 Ace wrote:


Ones in bold need to follow through and vote for Oats.

On April 29 2013 02:16 getmoript wrote:
Who are your top 3 scum reads Giygas?

On April 29 2013 02:22 getmoript wrote:
Why do you think those two are scum? Have you noticed anything anyone else hasn't?

On April 29 2013 02:44 getmoript wrote:
Why do you think it would've been sound to hold the hammer? What other information could we have gotten from Oats?

On April 29 2013 02:53 getmoript wrote:
So you still think ace is scum right?

On April 29 2013 03:13 VisceraEyes wrote:
BC WHY does everyone read Palmar as town? Srs I can't figure it out. No one seems to know why he's town, but no one wants to lynch him even though it's going on D3 and he's been completely useless. He even tried to derail the Clarity lynch ONTO ME early in D2, yet is trying to take credit for being "right"? WTF

On April 29 2013 03:45 Palmar wrote:
Please note how long it takes GiggleS to come up with an answer as to why he blindly parroted BC's claim.

On April 21 2013 18:43 Sylencia wrote:


Er, what makes me come off as nervous lol

On April 22 2013 09:34 Sylencia wrote:
As per usual, at work at the moment, I only skim read but I hope I can properly catch up once I get home tonight.



You think that if I was hiding something I would make it so blatantly obvious that I was nervous? This isn't a real time conversation where I have 10 seconds to come up with a response. Anyone can take time to craft a response that makes them seem like whatever they want to, so trying to read into someone's emotions based on their response (unless it's in the middle of some heated argument) isn't going to get you anywhere.

So to answer your questions, no I'm not, and at the time there was less than 1 page of discussion, of course there wasn't any idea as to what was going on yet. Won't be diving into reading people deeply until I get home tonight. If you think that's scummy you can look at my past games and look at every other game I've played in recent times and compare posting times.

(In any case I'm only on page 25 or so and I don't think I'll get much further while here)

On April 30 2013 00:14 ShiaoPi wrote:
If anyone cares about my thoughts here comes:

stutters
-just kill him by now
Giygas
-totally non-comittal, not a single shred of thread presence, always tugging along with the flow of the thread
-Entire filter is fluffy as shit. No hard-stances, also keeps fucking apologizing, as if he has the need to say sorry cause he should be active. I do encourage activity but this apologetic stance makes me think that he is sorry for not doing as much as he could, feels like excuses for active lurking.

one out of the 3cops I am inclined to believe it to be CC, since he is fucking wrong about me. VE actually looks kind of best out of the 3 which is confusing to me. Palmar claimed for like no fucking reason in a stupid as shit move, CC is just flat out lying or just being misled by a frame, while VE actually claimed in order to get some kind of sense into his own checks. Not liking this mess but we have what we have, consider lynching into CC please.

We prolly have a 3rd party somewhere here as well. I am thinking it might be the cobbler, but that is just gutsy guesswork

On April 30 2013 00:39 Stutters695 wrote:
I'm back from French so I'll be here until for the next 7 hours. I'm caught up but working on piecing together the shit that went down before the lynch.

On April 30 2013 03:11 Sharrant wrote:
GiygaS, what's your current read on Ace? I'd like you to explain what you draw on as your evidence as explicitly as possible.

VE, are you around? Do you want to like... talk about stuff or something. Let's talk about someone you think isn't getting as much attention as their play deserves.

On April 30 2013 06:07 Ace wrote:


we already said shiao could still be scum. We covered this like 20 times - go back and read it. Shioa WAS on the Oats wagon. Thats how we brought him up in the first place. It came down to which of the 2 was more likely Scum - Clarity or Shiao? Clarity flipped Vigilante Scum. Shiao is still alive and was on the wagon. Multiple players on the wagon are also still alive. Hence, the analysis holds. read it carefully.

On April 30 2013 06:27 WaveofShadow wrote:
Ace, you compared the D1 and D2 wagons though in the middle of Day 2.
Was Shiao on the Clarity wagon at any point during the day?

On April 30 2013 06:27 Ace wrote:


what did I do anti-town Day 1? can you point this stuff out?

!wos: what slip? im not scum I cant slip

On April 30 2013 06:42 Ace wrote:
In trouble for what? lynching 1 scum and not the other? are you seriously this slow?

quickly: How did clarity and ShiaoPi get brought up?

On April 30 2013 23:43 ShiaoPi wrote:
yo guys,
kill gigyas, stutters and VE thats the scum team and kush or the cobbler are 3rd party....

On May 01 2013 09:17 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
He appears to only be doing what he does for shits and giggles

On April 22 2013 08:20 Ace wrote:


I dont know why people keep saying that. I've got more than 30 games on this forum behaving all kinds of ways. My activity depends on how I feel, what I see, and how active other players are.

On May 01 2013 10:59 yamato77 wrote:
Fine.

Why don't people want to lynch Hopeless?

Let's talk about him, since he's one person who is not Ace/BC/Palmar/VE who I feel could be mafia.

On May 01 2013 11:10 WaveofShadow wrote:

This fucking guy.
HEY.
Wtf is this?? You're calling him out for essentially EXACTLY WHAT YOU'VE BEEN DOING ALL GAME?

On April 22 2013 01:38 getmoript wrote:

I think there's a reasonable value oddly enought to the Vivax conjecture. Anyone who posted early is more likely, as a general rule, to be town as scum are more likely consult a QT for direction and coordinate first. The problem with the heuristic is quite simply that it doesn't work for everyone equally; as a general rule, I think it's likely to be true, but without applying it to the specific people that posted early makes it more of a generally worthless statement.
Sylencia -- As far as I know he is a noob, so I'm guessing more likely town then
yamato--I am unaware of his scum tendencies, but don't think that posting early is indicative either way
oats--AFAIK he's a vet, in the least he's towards the spammy aggressive side which makes posting early non-alignment indicative
WoS--he always rolls scum so there's that I guess
geript--Clearly an egotistical maniac and posted in The Game early as scum, so again non-alignment indicative
Shaio--No clue as to experience, wanting to kill BM is more likely town
Vivax--I'm not familiar enough with his meta, but the odd statement alone makes me think he's more likely town as I don't think he's crazy enough to spout that as scum

So far, the list of people that I'm not interested in lynching today:
Sylencia
Vivax
Shaio
Palmar

On April 22 2013 06:45 Ace wrote:
@Sharrant: RN looks like a noobie to me.

On May 01 2013 11:23 WaveofShadow wrote:

Show me, GoogleS. Show me your cases. I want to see them. And I already know about the Sylencia case. Show me.

On April 22 2013 21:30 Hopeless1der wrote:
What the fuck is this suspicion on me based on? My determination to "Shut down townreads"? Yes, when you're handing them out like hotcakes and trying to hold hands singing kumbya. This is Mafia, not summer camp singalong.

I'm not discouraging reasonable townreads, I'm trying to keep things objective and informed. The two points against me are my comments on VE's entrance and Vivax/Palmar's entrance posts.

For VE, watch carefully:

+ Show Spoiler +
Am I trying to prevent townreads? You could say that. However, the reasoning used to attain a townread on VE was true of literally every player in the game. It's the equivalent of calling anyone who doesn't post for more than an hour scum. Man's gotta sleep right? Same way he has to READ THE OP TO LEARN WHAT HIS ROLE IS???

---

Vivax/Palmar's openings:

Palmar, based on the plethora of information from Vivax's two posts, the first ones in the game, declares Vivax to be unlynchable. Just like that. And that was alright because I felt similar about it. I mean I'd still have an open mind, but Vivax's post did put me onto a townier side of Vivax. My problem with Palmar's post was that he called something really fucking stupid a valuable towntell heuristic.

Let me break this shit down:

DAY 1 POST timestamp
On April 21 2013 16:55 Blazinghand wrote:

Vivax's first posts, the ones Palmar was referring to


So roughly an hour and a half. In addition there were 15ish posts between 6 players, obs notwithstanding. Also, the game started in the dead of night where I am.

Hydra Mini
scum in ~30 minutes, 33 posts into the game.

Ego Mini:
scum posted within an hour of game start. 34 posts in.

Noir Mini:
scum four minutes and 6 posts into the game

British Empire II
second post of the game 3 minutes in.

Red team's prize
Scum in under an hour, 25 posts in.

The Game
scum 5 minutes in, second post

All of these games violate Vivax's heuristic, but fuck me for pointing it out (without proof i guess) and questioning Palmar as to why he felt it was valuable, eh guys? . These are literally games just going down the list of the TL Mafia forum. I'm obviouscum trying to derail town from giving out
Completely valid and well thought out town reads based on sound reasoning.

Nah, you can all go die in a fire if you want to lynch me for this.

---

As of right now, I'm on Sharrant's side and would lynch rayn. I disllike his backpedal about "policy" miller lynching. I dislike his case overall as it is largely OMGUS, but still asks questions of the person he is accusing. However, his preface to his case was here:



These two quotes don't accomplish anything to me. He's just throwing the question back at sharrant like a stall tactic of feigning disbelief. For having come up with a scumread on Sharrant it seems grounded in the fact that Sharrant is wrong, not necessarily scum.


"If I WERE mafia, blah blah blah" No. I say you ARE mafia.

##Vote: raynpelikoneet

On May 01 2013 11:35 TheRavensName wrote:
Gly, I dislike that your trying to bring up such old old shit when so much stuff has happened sense then.

On May 01 2013 11:36 WaveofShadow wrote:
Good case.
I'm done guys, I'm just done.

On May 01 2013 11:39 TheRavensName wrote:
Yes, and its also a convient excuse to not do SHIT because yhour reading almost 200 pages worth of shit.

On May 01 2013 11:39 WaveofShadow wrote:

Show me where I said that.
Well thought-out cases that may take a while to post because critical thought is being undertaken =/= posting your thoughts every 5 seconds.

On May 01 2013 12:44 ObviousOne wrote:
I feel like I asked this before, was Rayn considered possibly the 3P kill?

On May 01 2013 15:55 ObviousOne wrote:
You could say that based on that, him living another day seems pretty



Hopeless

I award you THREE OO-points and may God have mercy on his soul.

On May 02 2013 07:52 WaveofShadow wrote:

Devil's advocate time, as I mostly agree that Palmar shouldn't be lynched today. Did you read my case on Palmar Guygas?
Notice how I am able to use this same evidence as a scumtell due to him pointing out Clarity as a possible early bus since Clarity was already gone for a while by that point?

On May 02 2013 08:59 TheRavensName wrote:





"oh oats was always gonna flip town. I didn't really care much for reasons best left unexplained."

Scumslip mixed with the whole stupid reason he basically voted for oats. This is something I would like to see someone argue against please.

On May 02 2013 13:22 getmoript wrote:
Honestly, my interest in voting for hopeless has greatly reduced because Yamato is pushing him.

On May 03 2013 06:42 Palmar wrote:


Do you sincerely think this information is not useful?

On March 22 2013 20:48 Blazinghand wrote:

Scum KP is # of scum / 2, rounded down. Scum KP is delivered factionally and cannot be roleblocked. Scum will return normal-looking roles to rolecop checks (ie Scum Vigilante returns Vigilante, Scum Goon returns Vanilla, Scum Framer returns Cop) but with the exception of the Godfather, return Red to DT checks.

On May 04 2013 08:43 ObviousOne wrote:
Inb4 anyone else says it! last ditch effort scum Yamato bussing scum Hopeless!

On May 05 2013 02:04 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
That makes no sense, there was like 0% chance you'd get hit. wtf JK

On May 05 2013 02:30 BloodyC0bbler wrote:


i am currently typing with two fingers cut so badly i cant use them. if i can keep playing so can you

On April 26 2013 00:35 yamato77 wrote:
The reason I'm running through all this is that I'm not particularly happy with any of the lynches that most of town is talking about. VE of yesterday feels somewhat town. I feel like more time would only bury scum VE or give chance to solidify a town read on VE. There's absolutely no rush for his lynch to be finalized.

Shaio is easy to mislynch, as evidenced by the suspicion on him in day 2 of British Empire 1, also an instant lynch where he was lurkish, and eventually replaced. The worst part of his filter is the hammer sequence, but even that could be explained by overly eager town who got caught up in the game emotionally.

Clarity is always inactive, and him being fixated on Sharrant is not alignment indicative. His case is objectively something that scum like to do, but in the context of the game, I can see a town Clarity who had a late start feeling the need to get his thoughts about the game on the table, even if they weren't about the main lynch candidates. The fact that he basically has no other reads in the game is a point in his favor, but just like VE, we can afford to play a waiting game with him, seeing as we have unlimited time.

At the very least, we need real discussion about the alignments of Ace/BC/Palmar before we move forward with any lynch. Ace is the most town out of the three, and BC the least, in my eyes. I'd say a long day is in order, and town need to consolidate pressure upon just a few people so that we can determine their alignments more clearly.

On May 01 2013 10:56 kushm4sta wrote:
yamato your one claim to towniness is pushing shiaopi d2. But the other wagon was clarity. So in reality you were just picking between 2 scum. scum literally had to bus.

Also that quote from earlier in which you explicitly soft defend 2 known scum. here it is again:



that's why i want to lynch you now

On May 02 2013 05:42 kushm4sta wrote:
I want to lynch yamato because he soft defended shiaopi and clarity. too much of a coincidence imo. i already posted the quote 2 times.
plus there are a ton of other reasons other people have posted.

yamato...lurker doesn't make you scum. Town easily can lurk for a million different reasons and I was doing it myself for the middle part of this game.
Your case against hopeless..i do not find it convincing in the least.

On May 07 2013 09:07 kushm4sta wrote:
dudes can we just lynch hopeless? that is the lynch im most comfortable with I think

On May 08 2013 07:08 kushm4sta wrote:
it was lolz to kill him though because yamato was the towniest person in this game.

On April 22 2013 07:56 WaveofShadow wrote:

lol what is this, a penis measuring contest? Either way I'm not impressed unless you have actual information to back it up. I'm really curious as to who you've come with especially considering most people's filters are too small to analyze; are you calling everyone with a filter worthy of analysis scummy?

Personally the fact that geript has been pretty much avoiding me all day is enough for me for now.

##Vote: Getmoript

On April 27 2013 03:51 Hopeless1der wrote:


tbh Sharrant until someone can explain how he gets away from his scumread on you, as evidenced from

+ Show Spoiler +

On April 28 2013 09:54 Hopeless1der wrote:
Yeah no one has ever exaggerated in their life, right Ryan?
...any who I need to eat my words on sharrant. My main reason in voting shiao was that I didn't trust sharrant. There is no good reason for him to be scum at this point. You don't suicide your vig into a teammate who proceeds to tear you a new one. I agree with most of the proposed big shots. Ie. Sketch bags on shiao's wagon. Unless shiao is ALSO a vig, he really should be considered town. Depending on flips and such, I'd consider him semi confirmed.

My personal choices for shots is sylencia and stutters. Obviously don't shoot me (herpderp), and I marginally believe wos.

On April 28 2013 12:25 Hopeless1der wrote:
K I'll be back tomorrow but if nothing pressing arises I'll wait until flips before I get into the thick of things. One thing I'll note is that I seem to be a back pocket option for a couple players and its a little disconcerting. However those players include town reads so that's probably null in the grande scheme of things.

@WoS fuck Rayn's accusations and give town what you've got. If you still get shot you did what you could, right?

On May 02 2013 11:08 Hopeless1der wrote:

I never said I looked town.

On May 10 2013 06:43 Hopeless1der wrote:
I'll say this in defense of TRN:
ctrl+f: cedric
Read just those 3 posts that turn up and see how you feel, barring the rest of his filter. I got town from that exercise when I did it a couple days ago.

On May 11 2013 19:44 Palmar wrote:




I actually didn't bus you hard, remember. I tried to deflect the lynch off of you on day 1 to a lurker. It almost got me killed too, but thankfully no one listened to VE and I argued with him for 4 days. It was Hiro Protagonist's bus that I took the credit for to endgame it.

Good game that one! First game for me, you, VE, prplhz, mataza, hiro protagonist and a few others. I think stefftastiq maybe?

On May 12 2013 05:19 WaveofShadow wrote:
Voting analysis is very interesting. I think tonight's NK is going to allow us a red lynch tomorrow.

On May 12 2013 07:26 WaveofShadow wrote:

Yeah no, don't think I'll be doing that.
Scum can figure out for themselves what they'd like to do.

On May 21 2013 01:32 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Even Vivax calls him giggles now. Beautiful.