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Hmm...
I could join....but I'd be basically AFK for a while, and play "lurky" and stuff (have like 1-2 hours free per day now only).
I'd be nice to see how it feels to be on the other side of the "inactivity" barrier lol
Of course I'd try to do my best.
If people have some problems with this I won't join though. If I roll scum I may do something similar to Themed Game Mafia (except WAY more inactive) and that may piss off my scumbuddies, and if I'm town people may just jump on me and shit.
I want to try something new.....and also I want to play a PYP 
However, if I join I don't want 100000 pages appearing every time I come home please (ironic considering I create those pages most of the time I play lol)
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When is this starting more or less then?
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On March 23 2013 02:49 Sn0_Man wrote:
Also, I'm "That guy" who is picking [1][1] so anybody else if u want to do that have fun picking last with me :
Kay I'll tell my scumbuddies to pick [1][1] too then.
I'll pick [1][2]
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I haven't seen boarkdwalk empire though
I just know buschemi is a boss and that's it.
Oh, and some hot hispanic chick gets naked in it a lot or something.
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Wait, I have more free time next week.
I assume this starts soon right? If so let's DO THIS SHIT
Also I'll just say it right now:
I WILL PICK INVENTOR
IF YOU ARE ABOVE ME AND PICK INVENTOR, YOU WILL FEEL MY WRATH IN POST-GAME
Thank you for your attention.
If you want to see the coolest inventions known to mafia men, then let me have the inventor :3
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Also if I get inventor and you RB me fuck you 
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this can be easily solved with a competition:
We have to figure out a new invention and post it in thread.
Then people will vote which invention is the bestest.
The guy with most votes gets to choose inventor
gogogogo
Hmm...I could go with the "Deadly Clockwork Dalmatian", or maybe with the "Map to the Anatomical Treasure"
Wait wait....maybe the "Force that speaks in riddles"? Nah...not that one, even the "5th Dimensional Rubik's Cube" is better than that.
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This fucker better stqrt soon
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oh well
I'll only be able to be active until Monday (it's holidays here now).
So yeah if this starts later expect me to go awol on your asses.
I'll still kill all townies/scum though (depending on alignment).
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that's a deal!
....oh yeah I may or may not pick Day Vigilante and shoot you 5 minutes into D1 VE, so stay sharp!
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oh yeah this shit better not start tomorrow/saturday/monday caus i'll be gone with the wind (inside a car though, fuck the wind).
I can still phone-post, but that's frustrating as fuck
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Damn you VE who do I shoot now?
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Come on
Come on play
Come on play in this magic
Come on play in this magic land
The land
The land of
The land of the mafia
The land of the mafia, the Mafia of the land
Come on
Come in
Come in through the door
Come on, step inside, take a look, kill some scum
Pick a number
Pick a role
Bring some chaos
Bring some love
Pick Your Power is home
Get your game on
Join you noobs
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And thus, abide to my will, they shall
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On April 02 2013 10:05 austinmcc wrote:
/in
Gonzaw, there's a chance we ruin each other's plans.
Nobody can ruin my plans
....oh...nice April's Fools! Aha good one austin
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Oh nice. I have a little more time tomorrow, so I can choose my draft number CAREFULLY mwahahaha
Also someone choose [1,1] to counteract that other guy so I can be 1st instead of him!
If you do this I'll give my invention to you!
Yeah, let's make this:
I'll give a super awesome invention on N1 to the guy that helps me the most to get #1 on the spot list!
I wont' tell you what I will choose.....so you will have to use statistical analysis and psychological projection to know what to choose to make me win! Best case scenario all of you choose [15,15] and I get to choose the coolest one, or the one that complements me the most!
And it will be you, yes YOU. You know I'm talking to you, and I'll give this invention to YOU...I just need a little help 
I'll post this now, but maybe not talk much about it once game starts in case I'm scum! (I don't want to hinder my play as scum would I?).
Come on, you know you want it. If someone does this I'll give you the most awesome complexely-in-depth invention ever, so much awesome I just created a new term for it.
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On April 03 2013 13:26 strongandbig wrote:
NO GONZAW I WILL BE INVENTOR
THEN LET THE BATTLE BEGIN!
On April 03 2013 23:31 Sn0_Man wrote:
Just "bumping" my PSA that I'm picking [1][1] so if you don't want to pick dead last with me you should probably avoid joining me.
Okay.
Have fun being day-vigged 1 minute into D1 if you are the only one that picked [1][1] and get the top spot.
On April 04 2013 00:13 Mocsta wrote:
well your trumped
cos i picked
[o][0]
I yeah?
Well I'll pick [-infinite, -infinite]
wachu gonna do 'bout it?
Or better yet, I'll pick [ min( X € Z / exists P€Pick, P.firstDraftNumber = X ) -1, 1]
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On April 04 2013 05:12 Sn0_Man wrote:
This may come across wrong, but I really do have no interest in the "Inventor" role.
It will be interesting to see which "power roles" slip through because later people opt for weaker ones to avoid being VT.
Good, good.
Anyways, people it's easy: Everybody start drafting from [7,X] up
I'll choose a number between 1 and 6 for the draft, and I want to be first.
All of you just choose numbers from 7 onwards and that's it!
Think about it....
Right now, some people will choose 1,2,3,4,etc.
Imagine the guy that went first got [1,1], the second [2,2], the third [3,3], etc.
What if they started choosing from [7,7] though?
The first one after me would get [7,1], the second [8,2], the third [9,3]
As you can see the relative positions are the same!
Thus, if everybody follows this method, EVERYTHING is exactly the same....except I get first place, get inventor, and win the game for town (/scum) and invent the best inventatorial inventions ever!
If anybody chooses something below 7 they should be considered confirmed scum/3P so we just kill them!
Pff I'm a genius I know....stop clapping please! You'll make me blush!
Oh you!
EDIT: I won't say which number from 1-6 I'll choose to stop some whippersnappers from getting my 1st place, even if they try a number below 7!
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Hi guys.
2 important things:
- Yeah don't do that thing I said in pre-game unless Palmar or something bullies all of you into doing it at once (it's obviously not going to work).
Just pre-game lighthearted fun.
I still want the #1 spot so nobody spoils my fun as inventor .
If I get 2nd-3rd or something I'd most likely pick something else (since the guy above me would obviously pick inventor), unless I think he's scum (and won't pick it) or something like that
Wait....didn't I say I was excited about this stuff in pre-game, and explicitly said I wouldn't talk about this in case I was scum?
Yes, yes I did.
But think of it this way: If I say "I am so excited to do X! But I won't talk about X in case I'm scum!", then I start talking about X. That means I'm like confirmed town or something, since if I was scum I could just not talk about it and be justified (you know I'm super lazy as scum so that's what I would do).
Therefore, me not doing that would mean I'd be scum, since if I was town I'd want to instantly confirm myself like that right?
WRONG. If not it'll be too easy for you guys and be kind of "cheating", I want to give my pre-game persona some credit and follow through his promises
- This game I'll be the wise guy. You know, like the Incognito....but in training.
I'll post minimally, but will give advice for mafia life when I do, and instantly catch all scum (unless I just have no time to read the thread or something)
P.S: If I get bored and have free time I may just spam a little bit or something
Okay, that's taken care of then
See ya people
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I don't understand what you are saying
...but oh well doesn't matter.
Please don't spam 30 pages while I'm away
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Wisdom: When I reach my 3k post milestone, I'll make a huge case against all scum in the game (and be right obviously), exactly on my 3K post!
(hopefully I remember it and don't forget about the milestone like the 2 previous times lol)
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On April 04 2013 23:34 Sharrant wrote:
If town gets inventor: Be as pro town as you possibly can be, this is a great role for town to have. We should see lots of bullet proof vests, and similar defensive or investigative items coming out from you.
That's not what you guys will get from me if I get inventor....
As for plans, just suit yourselves.
+ Show Spoiler [Setup stuff] +
Wisdom: If your plan FORCES specific players to do an action they may not want individually, then you NEED to either have almost unanimous support, or a way to enforce that authoritarian method.
Forcing VTs to claim their roles (when maybe they don't want to, depending what role they chose, what draft position they have, and what they think of the game) would not work that well for instance.
Same with other stuff.
There are "obvious" things that town has to do of course. Mainly "get good roles" and "deny mafia good roles".
Just pick your roles with this in consideration, but not only that, think about what other people may get as well
If you are selfless and think other's are egoistic, pick a Medic or sorts role (since in your mind nobody else would pick so)
If you are selfish but think you can use your role in a good manner, pick some good KP role or something
However, I won't mind people trying to play "individually" and get a cool role they want or something. That's what PYP is there for. The important thing is that either those people synergize their picks and skills pretty well, or they don't outnumber the players picking roles to "help town" (for instance those trying to deny scum of Janitor, etc)
Other "obvious" stuff is to basically deny mafia the CPR Doctor. They'll try to get that 100%.
Not so much Janitor. It is more an ability that fucks town more than it helps scum, thus in their mind scum may not try to get it that much (it doesn't further their agenda directly for instance, and they have little control on what it can do).
If you are townie on the 1-3 position, coordinate who gets CPR Doctor somehow, or just take it yourself. That's the only "important" thing we should take care of in my mind.
I know if I try to think about the setup I'll waste most of my time (time I don't have) and won't do shit, so I'll just focus on scumhunting.
Other people with more time (yamato and CO) figure out all those plans and discuss them if you want. I doubt there is anything game-changing that won't be resolved with ol' good accurate scumhunting.
You guys keep doing your think though. Hopefully the thread doesn't move so fast about "pointless" discussion after the picking phase though
I'll officially call VE out for making a halfassed post about agreeing with yamato's plan.
Also, I'm getting a slight idea someone else is scum....mwahahaha. Who? Oh, you don't want me to ruin the fun right now don't you?
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On April 05 2013 02:43 Vivax wrote:
It's ok caller, just means you will be the last one along with the designated elected townie mofo you'll contest. Hurt yourself bro.
I'll take a look at your options there. Seems like you like to pick the most active ones, but need to check if they're actually proposing malicious ideas. Disagreed on some stuff with sharrant, for example. It's like he wanted to leave "dangerous" roles open for scum.
Wisdom: Unless you are a Palmar, or an Ace, or a Wbg, or that type of scum, it's more likely that if you are scum you'll post ideas that you would post as town as well, meaning ideas that benefit town more than scum, but you know won't be likely to get implemented and thus gives you town cred.
Therefore, people doing the opposite may give them a slightly higher chance of being town (if not pretty higher), if their thought process seems legit.
Pre-Edit: Oh look, "troll Caller" ninja'ing me with my wisdom bits.
On April 05 2013 02:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Combine Vivax' + Geript's ideas and let these guys pick [1][1], [2][1], [3][1], [4][1], [5][1] (everyone else picks [6->] [X]):
raynpelikoneet
Geript
yamato
Mocsta
Sharrant
Argee or not? If not, why?
Hmm...I agree with this list to be honest.
Doesn't require super massive coordination to do X, but rather lesser coordination not to do Y, which, if those people claim in-thread they'll get those numbers, would obviously work because "selfish" townies and scum will pick different numbers to not clash.
As long as none of them pick inventor of course! (I'm being serious here though)
I did pick a number between 1-6 though, so if this plan becomes a consensus, or rather those 5 guys claim they send those numbers I'll change my pick to 7>
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On April 05 2013 02:54 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 02:47 Caller wrote:On April 05 2013 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 02:43 Vivax wrote:
It's ok caller, just means you will be the last one along with the designated elected townie mofo you'll contest. Hurt yourself bro.
I'll take a look at your options there. Seems like you like to pick the most active ones, but need to check if they're actually proposing malicious ideas. Disagreed on some stuff with sharrant, for example. It's like he wanted to leave "dangerous" roles open for scum. It doesn't matter if they proposed good or bad ideas. Mafia is probably not going to push any ideas at all (because they all have a backdoor - because there are so many roles). Everyone pushing ideas regardless if they are good/bad are probably town at this point, especially the guys who are pushing ultimately bad ideas. :D au contraire mafia will push any ideas even if they are "good" because their picking strategy never reflects what town is thinking and if they have a "good plan" they become more "townlike." or they participate. either way it looks good on them. As i said the guys top in drafting order are gonna fall fast, thay have the "best" roles after all (or at least likely). If you were mafia why would you push an idea that's good for town? Doesn't it hurt your team? If you were mafia why would you push an idea that's bad for town? Doesn't it draw suspicion to you? You cant push a bad strategy in PYP, you just cant. It gets shut down immediately. Its better for them to let town do what they do and maybe slightly alter the 'plan' to benefit scum more. So therefore your town 'criteria' is absolute bullshit
The criteria may be "bullshit"....to an extent.
It's "obvious" that in many games the people being the most active are more likely to be town.
In this game, yamato, rayn, Sharrant, and to an extent Moctsa/geript have been the most active in going with discussion.
Yes, it's possible one (or more) of them are scum, just have some big balls and decided to start the game guns-blazing going for town cred and trying to be an influence.
The thing is that other than maybe yamato/Mocsta I don't see them doing that as scum (as opposed if they were wbg or something like that), plus their interactions with them seem legit in the sense that they are genuinely discussing stuff to be productive (which is likelier to come from townies than scum).
For instance, take a look at all others that "chimed in" with "pro-town plans" and stuff.....yet made absolutely no impact at all in the game
It's possible you'll find your first scums in there (if not on the inactive/"bored" players as well).
I have little against this plan to be honest.
Even if one of them is scum, they are somehow more restricted by what they pick. If those 5 get the first 5 positions, we KNOW they will pick strong town roles.
If we see a strong role being used in an anti-town way, when those guys were supposed to get said role, then alarms are raised, and pressure is put on those people, specially the scum that took that strong role.
Like I stated, the only cooperation town has to make is NOT do something, which is many many times easier than forcing them to do something.
In fact, think about it this way:
You are a townie, and you don't think any of those 5 people are scum. You can pick either 1-6, or >7. If you pick 1-6, you basically go to the bottom of the draft for sure, thus not being able to pick good roles. You also drag someone down with you 100%, someone you are not sure is scum and may even think is town
Would you pick 1-6, after those people already claimed their picks? Most likely not, specially not if you don't do it publicly
This plan is good in the sense that it "forces" players to do (or not do) something, but in a way it's actually supposed to work because it caters to those players' mentality and what their natural reaction would be..
The only thing that remains is scum clashing with those 5 people, which can out them if we compare draft numbers and positions.
/wisdom
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On April 05 2013 03:07 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +For instance, take a look at all others that "chimed in" with "pro-town plans" and stuff.....yet made absolutely no impact at all in the game
It's possible you'll find your first scums in there (if not on the inactive/"bored" players as well). Prove it. Also isnt the point of having 5 'confirmed' townies in order to choose the roles to deny from mafia for them?
Prove what? Who is scum out of those "non-productive plan-sayers"?
That will have to wait my young student. Patience is a virtue...
...it shouldn't be hard to realize though, almost everybody chimed in with some "plan" or another, yet I (and I think most of you) can't even remember who those were or what they proposed or what they did to push it or push discussion forward.
Anyways see ya in 7-8 hours
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On April 05 2013 03:19 Vivax wrote:
Supporting gonzaw and rayn for high picks so far. Objections?
I suggest everyone makes a list of his top 5 townreads to send in highest numbers, and we find the ones most agree on.
If there's someone mostly suggesting scum in his list, we will find out later.
That's why scum will try to stop this plan.
1. Rayn
2. Gonzaw
3. Vivax (duh)
4.-5. : To find out.
No don't put me on top (or rather, don't change plans just to put me on top)
It's easy: I'll pick Inventor.
If nobody picks inventor and I get #23 I'll get inventor anyways.
If everybody says they won't get inventor, I can get position 5-8 and get inventor anyways (as long as I'm above S&B I assume).
If I don't get inventor, then scum got it and we can figure out who he is eventually (as long as I don't go too low on the list).
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On April 05 2013 03:22 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:19 gonzaw wrote:On April 05 2013 03:07 Oatsmaster wrote:For instance, take a look at all others that "chimed in" with "pro-town plans" and stuff.....yet made absolutely no impact at all in the game
It's possible you'll find your first scums in there (if not on the inactive/"bored" players as well). Prove it. Also isnt the point of having 5 'confirmed' townies in order to choose the roles to deny from mafia for them? Prove what? Who is scum out of those "non-productive plan-sayers"? That will have to wait my young student. Patience is a virtue... ...it shouldn't be hard to realize though, almost everybody chimed in with some "plan" or another, yet I (and I think most of you) can't even remember who those were or what they proposed or what they did to push it or push discussion forward. Anyways see ya in 7-8 hours Um yeah you said its possible, so I want to see you do it. Lol.
I already called one of them out (VE). Another one is my "hidden gut scumread", I won't reveal because it'd be kind of pointless right now with the lack of content and stuff.
Others are random dudes that are null but can indeed be mafia, at least have much higher chance of being so than those 4-5 on rayn's list.
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On April 05 2013 06:00 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Why Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 05:46 strongandbig wrote:
this whole discussion is stupid until we get the drafting list btw yes Gonzaw would you mind telling me what you think of oats, artanis, sharrant, and decondou? Would like to hear someone else's thoughts.
Yo how about YOU tell me what you think of them?
You can't force the wise man to do your bidding, he forces you to do his, and then enlightens you or punishes you accordingly
I have to agree with yamato on Oats.
Makes little sense for scum Oats to "intentionally disrupt" town like this in the drafting phase for no reason (if he's scum), rather than doing so when it matters to them: The Day phase.
No reason to call him scum right now, wait until the game actually "matters" to state so.
So you 5 guys are you sending the 1-5 draft choices? If so it may be better to claim so you don't clash between each other, and so you can convince other people not to take those as well (I already changed my number).
I guess it's too late though, meh.
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Wisdom: Don't set your "scumteam" stances on stone so early in the game with little foundation behind them rayn, or you may be punished for it when the dusk comes
I'll have to say I don't really agree with Oats and RO (RO not that much though), while MZ and Caller are null enough to not be called as a scumteam yet.
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Fuck, goodbye dream. Inventor, you were a nice friend, I'll never forget ya.
So, SnoMan scum for picking [1,1] but no scum clashing with him?
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On April 05 2013 11:32 Shelvocke wrote:
Gonzaw, are you still here? I want to speak with you.
Depends
I have some other shit to do now, on top of figuring out what other role to get that's not boring as fuck or turns me into VT
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Patience my little birds, patience.
There was little content this drafting phase, I have to wait a little bit to see how this person picks his game up when it starts to matter and how he does it.
It's also a gut feeling in some way, so I have to develop it a little bit better.
Also, chose my role
S&B you can get the inventor I guess goddamit > : (
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On April 05 2013 11:51 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Also for the record, I'm not trying to force a wise man to do my bidding, just wanna check in with someone who completely played me before :D
Oh, stop it you! :3
I just don't want to start babbling like I do normally (i.e post thoughts about everybody at once, every time).
Anyways, I can't see that much against the "guy who picks [1,1] and scum don't clash with him is scum" heuristic, specially considering Sno didn't post at all on the 24 hours this drafting phase (other than his "thread is so big!" comment).
It's not entirely foolproof....but it does make you think.
This drafting phase was nice to get some town reads going on, not so much scum reads (although I have my suspicions).
As most of the time, content from certain individuals would be welcomed (VE, Palmar, Obvious, sinani, etc etc) to get something going (as long as I don't have to spam thoughts and thoughts to make it so).
rayn, I don't understand you tunneling RO right now.
Heed my previous wise advice and take a step back before you tunnel someone which could easily be town at this moment in time.
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Rayn, even if RO is scum, you'd be making it easier for him to "hide" by....doing whatever the hell you are doing.
Fact: You have 5% justified reasons for thinking RO is scum. Nobody agrees with you
Fact: The more you tunnel him, the more you antagonize others, and the more everybody will start defending RO to react against you. Therefore if RO is scum, the more you do whatever you do, the more people will keep ignoring his scummyness and focus on defending him to counter your unjustified tunnel
So yes, hear my advice (just filter me if it's too much work to search it), and take a step back, you are not doing anybody any favours. Hell, even if you are scum you are not doing your scumteam any favours by being so "obvious".
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Well Mocsta, I don't follow your eagerness to hunt down our little friend here. His behaviour in the drafting phase seems too "fucking great scum play" if he was scum compared to this "fucking bad scum play" you mention him doing. It'd be so "fucking great scum play" that it almost convinced me he was town back then (and that thought still lingers)
His RO tunnel is weird though, so I'll let this play its course. Just don't shit things up (both of you) it's the only thing I ask of you
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On April 05 2013 12:40 yamato77 wrote:
Gonzaw, what do you make of MZ basically trolling the thread and saying very little about anything?
I wouldn't call what he did trolling.
I agree with some stuff he's saying, for instance Artanis does seem to be flying under the radar.
Either he's making sense as town and being playful in his own way....or I'll need more time to figure him out as scum.
Both of those make me give little attention to him, in the mafia-seeking ways
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On April 05 2013 12:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Should we have our roles by now?
You'll have to wait 20 more hours for that sugarpuff
BC wouldn't be that cruel to give people just 2-3 hours to pick a role
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Someone please tell me you choose [2,-]
Please.....please tell me you did so if I had stick with my original choice ([2,2]) I would at least have clashed with you and gotten 7-9....and not just gotten 2nd place and be 100% able to pick inventor basically.
On April 05 2013 15:20 Keirathi wrote:
Justice Vigilante (Unless you are just a 100% master scumhunter never wrong, don't pick this).
Guess I know what role I'm picking then
Anyways, I'm not against using KP.
Right now there are people you don't want to shoot at all basically (town reads or active people), and then guys you are free to shoot.
I wouldn't mind everybody shooting the guys you are free to shoot and leave the guys you don't shoot alive, either single handily winning us the game, or putting us very very closer to doing so.
For instance, anybody is free to shoot Caller if he plays like this until N1. You can figure out the rest of that list, you guys are not dumb.
D1 will give people a better idea of where to go and stuff. Also it'd be chaos to enforce
Snoman, do you have an idea why nobody tried to get you off #1 place? Any suggestions? Can I shoot you 10 minutes into D1 if you answer incorrectly?
Also, damn VE you try to be scum on purpose man?
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On April 06 2013 02:35 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 02:19 gonzaw wrote:
Anyways, I'm not against using KP.
Right now there are people you don't want to shoot at all basically (town reads or active people), and then guys you are free to shoot.
I wouldn't mind everybody shooting the guys you are free to shoot and leave the guys you don't shoot alive, either single handily winning us the game, or putting us very very closer to doing so.
For instance, anybody is free to shoot Caller if he plays like this until N1. You can figure out the rest of that list, you guys are not dumb.
D1 will give people a better idea of where to go and stuff. Also it'd be chaos to enforce
So your advice is "townies kill of bad players, while scum kill off the good ones"? I don't even....
"I wouldn't mind X" =/= "I advice X"
Also scum has 1 KP, and if every townie takes away every KP from scum, they'll keep having 1 KP. The rate at which good townies die will be less than the ones in which scum+bad townies die.
It just adds some variance depending on who gets the KP, how they play, and how town in general is playing.
If we just play "well" there'll be no problems, thus being unnecessary to enforce any policy (which would be un-enforceable).
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You could say about Keirathi the same as many other players I think (Artanis, austin, ObviousOne some more perhaps) who are still "trying to help" yet not scumhunting in a meaningful way (if not to appear they contribute and stuff), if not just not scumhunting at all.
He's acting a little dickish I guess though (unlike the others I mentioned), which sets him apart from them a little bit in terms of behaviour, but just makes him null at worst
Anyways, right now I call back the "feel free to shoot Caller" tid-bit (Caller seems to be putting quite a lot of effort for how much he "trolls"). and instead put "feel free to kill Sno-man"
It was good enough for Mattchew to catch scum 1 minute into D1 last game, it can be good enough here, specially if Sno does shit all this game and has few forgetful intranscendental posts.
Wisdom: WIFOM party though, considering that exact reason was stated before the draft phase ended. However, considering that by having a scumbuddy pick [1,1] too outs that 2nd guy (when everybody claims draft numbers) and takes Sno out from #1 spot, it's WIFOM worthy to take into account
Scenario: Sno claimed pre-game he'd pick [1,1] and intentionally crashing with him would hinder scum too much, out one of them, and maybe still have Sno under pressure. Therefore just keep him at #1 so he can pick CPR Doctor/Janitor and maybe brush off the fact for WIFOM.
Fact: I'm the only person in the whole game that brought up the "Mattchew foolproof method for finding scum" tid-bit against Sno after the draft phase was over. Not even scum mentioned it (I skimmed some of the post so this could be wrong though)
On April 06 2013 03:19 yamato77 wrote:
I'm actually starting to agree with you on Vivax, Oats.
And I also like Caller's pursuit of Keirathi, I agree with a lot of the stuff he's saying.
I do want to put a gun to sinani's head, because in RTP, when I was scum with him, his filter early on was very similar to this one.
Wisdom: Sinani gets misslynched A LOT I gather. Tread carefully here my son, I don't really see sinani playing unlike what he'd play as "misslyncb bait" town.
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On April 06 2013 03:30 yamato77 wrote:
Sinani being lynchbait does not mean he gets a free pass to lurk and post meaningless posts, gonzaw.
I'm not saying he gets one.
I'm just giving wise advice, so hopefully my town brethren take heed on and so no tunnels on townies and shitted up threads happen
Anyways yamato, can you tell me why you'd prefer killing Meapak, over, for instance, this guy?
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On April 06 2013 03:40 yamato77 wrote:
I told you why I want to kill him, why do you seem resistant? Is there some redeeming quality to Meapak that makes him not the best choice for lynch tomorrow?
For one, OO has posted about 3x as much stuff as MZ so far.
I liked this post from his:
On April 05 2013 11:51 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 10:10 gonzaw wrote:On April 05 2013 06:00 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On April 05 2013 04:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
3 scum reads:
Caller, RO, Oats. Why On April 05 2013 05:46 strongandbig wrote:
this whole discussion is stupid until we get the drafting list btw yes Gonzaw would you mind telling me what you think of oats, artanis, sharrant, and decondou? Would like to hear someone else's thoughts. Yo how about YOU tell me what you think of them? You can't force the wise man to do your bidding, he forces you to do his, and then enlightens you or punishes you accordingly I have to agree with yamato on Oats. Makes little sense for scum Oats to "intentionally disrupt" town like this in the drafting phase for no reason (if he's scum), rather than doing so when it matters to them: The Day phase. No reason to call him scum right now, wait until the game actually "matters" to state so. So you 5 guys are you sending the 1-5 draft choices? If so it may be better to claim so you don't clash between each other, and so you can convince other people not to take those as well (I already changed my number). I guess it's too late though, meh. I initially had a pretty bad feeling about oats, however he's just been too loud for me to think he's scum at this point. I'm rather suspicious of artanis, I actually wanted an opinion on sharrant because I have him as a complete null, and decondou was a red herring which I threw out on a whim. In hindsight you'd be too smart to go for it as scum anyway  currently I have rayn as probable town since I've learned that the most annoying people tend to be town. That being said, I also really don't think RO is scummy. Also for the record, I'm not trying to force a wise man to do my bidding, just wanna check in with someone who completely played me before :D
I like some of his reactions and interactions with other players. He seems to not "try" (i.e post giant walls of text discussing shit), but it does feel he cares when he posts, which I think he wouldn't at this stage as scum (and would play more like Palmar/VE/maybe decuondo for now).
ObviousOne has passed the "Fluff and Filler!" 101 class with honors, and seems to continue to excel in the course
Example of fluff: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=32#628
Example of out of place attempt to scumhunt which seems "obviously" pointless pressure the more you think about it: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=35#695
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I'm reading his filter from RED and I don't get the same feeling there as I do here. He seems more "noob" this game than on that one.
Plus I checked his profile and the only game he's been scum was in the hydra game with VE and he barely posted there at all.
Feel free to provide counterexamples
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I'll tell you what I like about that post:
1)I agree with his reads, even when those reads were not part of "town's sentiment" at the time (for instance the Artanis and rayn/RO ones I think).
2)The "the decuondo bit is a red herring" bit. Feels a little too spontaneous and not planned, seemingly likelier to be done by town
Won't dwell on this too much though....since I don't like defending scum if I'm eventually wrong (oh the memories from Can't Believe Mafia still linger...)
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Hereby I decree, via the will of the wise and only gonzaw the One, thoughts be shared regarding these individuals, and words be spread about the One's wise annotations and analysis made in their name:
ObviousOne
Sno_man
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Read my "Wisdom" tags austin.
Scum have to always choose between risk and reward. WIFOM is a pattern for scum decision making that has set values for said risk/reward (risk: Town don't buy the WIFOM, reward: Town buy the WIFOM)
However, there are more risks and rewards in this process that's not just pure WIFOM.
For instance what I stated: Some scum picking [1,1] alongside scum Sno puts both of them lower in the list, "outs" the 2nd guy as scum since we'd now someone taking down a claimed [1,1] out of nowhere is scum. On top of that, the WIFOM bit can "fail" and people may still believe Sno is scum
There is little reward in doing that, other than maybe creating more WIFOM in favor of Sno.
The only other alternative for scum Sno is to lie and pick something else rather than [1,1]. That has less risks, although the "why did you lie from what you said in pre-game?" risk my be big enough for them not to try.
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My other point is that scum would love to point this out.
If Sno is town and they DON'T clash with him.....why wouldn't they? The only reason other than some bullshit stuff is to include that WIFOM against him, which would mean they'd love to point out how he's scum for getting #1 just like what Mattchew did the last game
...however nobody mentioned it, and nobody did anything when I mentioned it.
In probabilistic terms, something is off (although the possibility scum are just bad, or don't give a fuck, or were all AFK forever is still there).
Also....I think I'll get my 3k milestone earlier (if I want to...you know...play good in this game), so it might not be as great guys
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Yeah don't bother with the roleplaying stuff
I don't even know who my char is, I don't know ANYBODY in Boardwalk Empire (I don't even know the name of Buschemi's character).
I'm just being wise in general, ya know?
Again, choosing both scum [1,1] is a risk with that reward you posted. It has other risks as well (like the ones I stated)
If scum try to either play safe, or don't really know what they are doing, nor know the game that much (nor know what happened last game), they'd still keep scum Sno to pick [1,1] alone.
Personally, I think it increases the chances of him being scum, which merits him....you know...come back, defend himself, contribute and be put in the crosseyes to see if he is or not.
Like I said his posts are forgetful and intranscendental I don't even remember what he posted about.
It's also a nice "entry point" for discussion towards D1, other than Caller arguing with Keirathi, or rayn tunneling RO, etc.
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On April 06 2013 04:26 austinmcc wrote:
I don't know how you'd see both as scummy if one player flips and had picked [1][1], just based on the picks.
If someone claims he'll pick [1,1], and you are town, you won't clash with him unless you DON'T want that specific player at #1, sacrificing your chance at getting higher in the list.
Why would you do this out of nowhere though? You wouldn't, you'd either discuss it, post in the thread about it (if you just don't care), or think that guy is scum and thus sacrifice your picking chance to do so
Remember, townies get the chance to get THE ROLE OF THEIR DREAMS, and they always play alone, so they need a very very higher incentive to sacrifice their draft spot. Scum play with plans and get "community roles". They don't care if scum X gets a high spot if they can get scum Y to get a high spot. They don't care if scum X gets a specific role if they can get Y to get it. They play as a team, thus they wouldn't care about sacrificing their spots to take out a [1,1] guy.
Town would ("sane" town at least ).
Therefore, if someone just picks [1,1] out of nowhere even if someone else claimed so to is likely scum, unless he does the stuff a townie would obviously do in that scenario (which didn't happen by the time the draft phase was over).
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Artanis, do you believe your own case and "push" of geript....or are you joking?
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Hmm....okay, I'll analyze this later then.
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We are not killing either VE nor RO tomorrow. We are killing my "hidden scum read", which I'll post shortly.
I'm not sure what to think of either VE nor RO right now. Skimming their posts is not enough. VE made some bad points about RO (the thing where RO called Oats out for defending him when he thought he was scum is legit and at worst it points to RO being town not scum).
RO wanting to kill some people he thought are town out of nowhere and the way he's reacting is weird though.
VE is
Also, if someone gets day vigi, don't use it 10 minutes into D1, post you have Day KP and give everybody 24 hours heads up. You'll even get more info on people that way.
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Fuck:
VE is being VE and in the grand scale of things doing very few noticeable things to gauge his alignment. Generally to "catch" a player like VE, you need a lot of info to process before doing so, whether his actions, his inactions, or the actions of others.
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Also, 11 posts to milestone!
I'll change my objective to post a case against scum, but a single one (it's too early to catch all scum unfortunately)
Sorry guys for failing you
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D1 hasn't started yet huh?
Buggers
Where are sharrant, snoman, strong and Meapak?
No comment on anything else that's been going on, except that the Palmar/VE thing might need to wait until D1 to gain more strength to be taken into account (people calling them scum that is).
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Count-down: 8
VE your promises are null until you do start to do something.
The more you keep promising to do stuff "when the game starts" the worse you look
People are justified voting for you, specially with some low-quality posts of yours (that "omg had the best idea evah!" post of yours for instance, and an apparently bad case on RO), lack of interest/activity despite your "eagerness" and "over-joy" when you started, and the aforementioned promises.
You are VE though so there's always that "he may be doing this shit as town" idea in the back of my head.
It's easy though, if by late-D1 you don't contribute shit (or important townie shit) you die, and I doubt anybody will disagree with this.
I'll give you at least that amount of time, so I'm not insta-voting you right now or anything.
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Countdown: 7
No one comments on it because it's bad VE, and you put too much weight on it and nothing else.
On April 06 2013 09:42 VisceraEyes wrote:VisceraEyes Pre-Dawn Lynch Preference of WrathRestrainingOrder - RestrainingOrder first popped onto my radar in my first readthrough before commenting on Yamato's idea. This post. Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 19:58 Restraining Order wrote:
The thing is denying mafia roles doesn't work too well anyways, and on top of that, if you try to coordinate it, it works even less.
The rolecop-rolevig combo alone has 2-3 possibilities on either end of the deal. (rolecop, capitalist, extractor & assassin, rolevig)
Sure, you might be a hero and get exactly the one they try to pick, but it's a crapshoot, and mafia inherently has the pickorder advantage due to possible coordination.
Rather, think about it like this: certain roles are not desireable for mafia to pick. Those roles, you don't pick early in the draft order. This includes all investigative roles (apart from rolecop), dreamflower, things like that. Not picking those in, say, the upper half, will mean more roles for town overall.
But having VTs is also very informative, so you really don't need to mind either way. Ultimately the logic behind this post is fairly sound. But upon further inspection, you'll find that all it really does is say "planning for the pick phase is futile, and doesn't matter". Why not just say that? Why go to the extra effort of explaining it in the throes of a huge planning session when it's clear it's just going to get ignored by people who are expending effort planning? It's a throw-away post that affects nothing and accomplishes nothing.
This is irrelevant for his alignment
He proceeds to have a rather meaningless back and forth with rayn, which ultimately ends up with rayn having a scumread on him. Most of it is "You said" "No I didn't". But what I found interesting during this exchange was this post. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:37 Restraining Order wrote:On April 05 2013 03:33 Oatsmaster wrote:On April 05 2013 03:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 03:28 Restraining Order wrote:
Ok, you can keep townhunting them townreads if you want, I sent in my numbers already. They shouldn't be too obtrusive to whatever nonsense you'll come up with, so it's okay. This is like a scumclaim. elaborate why not wanting to discuss your plan is scummy please. You must have forgotten, but you also think I'm mafia. What is the town motivation for posting this? Like, assuming RO is town and he doesn't know what Oats' alignment is, what is the point of prodding Oats when he's soft-defending him like that? As scum it could serve to cast doubt on Oats if Oats is town, but what does it do if RO is town? I can't think of anything, and I found this post suspicious as hell as a result.
If you can't figure out the town motivation for saying that, you are scum or bad VE.
It's obvious what the town motivation for saying that is, and it's baffling how you both can't see it and use it to justify someone being scum.
Hint: If RO is town, then he's seeing someone that accused him of being scum defending him. This would be contradictory and thus he'd try to get some answers out of Oats. Can't get any easier than this
Hint: It doesn't make Oats scum either, since you can always think someone is scum yet think other people are attacking him for the wrong reasons
Hint: It doesn't make RO scum for not "heavily pushing" it either, because of the previously mentioned reason (it doesn't make Oats insta-scum)
The thing about RO "wanting" to kill people he previously said would basically be town because of drafting picks is valid; but it's enough to pressure him not enough to make a "case" (specially considering your previous 2 "bad" points).
Ultimately, the ONLY thing you can say against RO is that he wants to kill some people he previously said are likely town. It wouldn't be that bad if you kept pushing it (using RO's consequent reactions and responses as well) and didn't masquerade it with previously bad points.
You are free to keep pushing RO, but right now you made a single case-post and did nothing else basically regarding RO, not even commenting on his responses, which in my mind weren't even that "good", which I would think would make you...you know.....pressure him some more, considering it's the crux of your argument against him.
Speaking of which, yes, RO's comment on doing a 180 on those people and subsequent reaction is weirdly funny (by that I mean his reaction to VE's case and his seemingly "fuck you all" attitude when pressured about that previous point, along the fact he didn't really justify his change of heart before making it, but rather after he was called out, and had little evidence to show he actually did have that change of heart before and was genuine).
I'm interested in what he's going to do this day.
I'm also interested in what rayn thinks of this whole RO issue. He hasn't really commented on the VE vs RO issue at all, even when VE does point out a valid point against RO, considering rayn was tunneling the hell out of RO earlier.
rayn has turned kind of trollish and useless after the draft phase ended and that's bothering the hell out of me trying to get a read off him :/
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Countdown: 6
Oats, can you tell me where your position against Vivax is? I don't really want to wade through 7 pages of your filter to see them.
Or make a condensed post with your thoughts about him and justifying your vote, etc.
Vivax is being uncharacteristically "sane" and "not totally disruptive".
It's off-putting considering my experience with his town play.
He posts "normal" stuff, normal enough for both scum and town to post it. That in itself is null, considering the draft phase, and thus would need more info on this D1 phase.
But again, it's "weird" considering what (in my mind) uncharacteristic of his his play i (those "normal" posts of his follow that as well)
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Countdown: 5
sinani, what do you think of the Rayn-RO-VE issues?
What about other people that have been called out, like geript, Artanis, or Vivax for instance?
I hope you take this game seriously as well
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Countdown: 4
At worst, 9 people choosing the same number indicates the exact same thing: There's been some planning about picking those numbers. This would mean that just like PYP: Insane, scum decided to have 2-3 people choose the same number (for instance)
The chances of 9 townies choosing 8 as first number is very very low I'd say. Although not all 5 scum would do so (maybe just 2-3) so there's some info if we flip 1-2 scum in said group.
On April 05 2013 17:59 Palmar wrote:
ok I have a plan.
details tomorrow.
On April 07 2013 06:24 Palmar wrote:
##Vote VisceraEyes
I'm waiting palmar...
Is your plan ninja-voting VE and disappearing?
I thought you said the plan was going to be hilarious....there's nothing hilarious about that
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Countdown: 3
Snoman, I couldn't care less about you claiming your role right now. You've done 0 productive things ever since the game started, and you keep not doing them now.
Of course you'll take a great role as both scum or town, and I'd take a bet that even if you are town scum won't shoot you soon or may even steal your role and keep you alive (or you may claim something similar later).
Comment on cases, choose which one you agree with/disagree with, post scumreads.
It would be a pity if someone were to day vig you right now and you flip town, so get to it (no this is not me claiming day vig)
Vivax, VE's case is bad except that "RO mixed scumreads with town reads" bit. Read my previous posts for a more thorough explanation.
If you want to accuse RO, sheeping VE's case is the worst way to do it. Come up with stuff of your own that's actually incriminating if you still think he's scum.
Also stop with the draft number shit. It's already apparent who took what or in what range their numbers are. You can even check it with that "lolList" from VE's case.
Also Palmar seems like scum Palmar. If you act this unhelpful (like that other game of yours) just so scum don't kill you at night, I'd advice you that townies (or even scum) day-viggin you on D1 is also possible, if not more probable.
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Countdown: 2
Damn, game is getting boring now, nobody doing shit other than flinging shit onto VE/RO and mass voting them.
I don't endorse a VE nor RO lynch right now (might change later in the day), but neither VE nor RO are making it easy.
Several people that were active, or tried to be active in draft phase are surprisingly gone and that worries me as well.
This weekend is the only free time I'll have until next weekend guys (and I'll probably be dead by then), so try to take advantage of it! :D
On April 07 2013 08:33 Palmar wrote:
Where does the notion that I ever act unhelpful because I'm afraid of dying come from? If I'm not doing stuff it's because I don't want to be doing stuff for one reason or another. Stop saying stupid shit.
That's what every "vet" uses as an excuse. I understand you sometimes giving 0 shits about games when you are town, but you don't give them as scum either, so......
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Countdown: 1
Okay, a couple of things:
1) Some of you have "voted" apparently but haven't posted in the voting thread (here) Don't be lazy guys
2) In my next post I'll post my main scumread, make a case against him, etc. Hopefully it can get something more out of you guys (in terms of content), as well as hopefully netting us one scum
3) Wow, BM is putting quite a lot of effort it seems, at least much more than what I remember (specially in contrast with other games of his, like LIII). That's pleasantly surprising
4) Although kind Ignore this post since it's just filler to ramp up the number of my posts >_>
Your trully,
gonzaw the One
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Countdown: ZERO
Initiate 3K Protocol ...
Target: Artanis[Xp]
Profile: MAFIA
Objective: LYNCH
(Filter for reference: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766&user=19729 )
1) Introduction:
Ah yes. I've been keeping an eye out on Artanis for a while. I've noticed him when I made this post.
What I had noticed, was how Artanis tried to be part of discussions.
Here's the thing. Players like yamato, rayn, maybe Sharrant, etc, started discussing how to make draft picks.
Other players straight up didn't say much about it or said they didn't care much, like Keirathi (I believe), Meapak, etc.
The "active" ones that were discussing things though, did so in a productive manner.
They proposed plans, they discussed them, they argued with each other about their benefits and criticisms of others. They posted thoughts on other people's plans and thoughts.
Most importantly though: They tried to put effort in their posts, while still trying to be productive.
Artanis certainly did seem to put effort, but didn't seem to try and be productive
So let's start this kay?
2) "Hiding in plain sight" via setup discussion:
One of the reasons I had an early town read on Meapak....was just how he took the words out of my mouth regarding Artanis.
First, here are some posts for reference (you can always just check his filter, 1st page):
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=10#191
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=10#195
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=10#196
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=13#256
Here's the thing. These posts just scream "I'm trying to contribute with setup talk!" to me.
For instance, take yamato's filter as comparison. See how he approaches the discussion about role picking.
Now check how Artanis approaches said discussion.
Artanis seems to be putting up an appearance. He seems to be posting just for the sake of discussing setup stuff.
He posts just to be active, or so it seems.
He even tries to come up with a "plan" of his own, with the RNG stuff! Scum love to do this as well.
I'll go back and mention something I've posted before:
On April 05 2013 03:05 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 02:54 Oatsmaster wrote:On April 05 2013 02:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 02:47 Caller wrote:On April 05 2013 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 05 2013 02:43 Vivax wrote:
It's ok caller, just means you will be the last one along with the designated elected townie mofo you'll contest. Hurt yourself bro.
I'll take a look at your options there. Seems like you like to pick the most active ones, but need to check if they're actually proposing malicious ideas. Disagreed on some stuff with sharrant, for example. It's like he wanted to leave "dangerous" roles open for scum. It doesn't matter if they proposed good or bad ideas. Mafia is probably not going to push any ideas at all (because they all have a backdoor - because there are so many roles). Everyone pushing ideas regardless if they are good/bad are probably town at this point, especially the guys who are pushing ultimately bad ideas. :D au contraire mafia will push any ideas even if they are "good" because their picking strategy never reflects what town is thinking and if they have a "good plan" they become more "townlike." or they participate. either way it looks good on them. As i said the guys top in drafting order are gonna fall fast, thay have the "best" roles after all (or at least likely). If you were mafia why would you push an idea that's good for town? Doesn't it hurt your team? If you were mafia why would you push an idea that's bad for town? Doesn't it draw suspicion to you? You cant push a bad strategy in PYP, you just cant. It gets shut down immediately. Its better for them to let town do what they do and maybe slightly alter the 'plan' to benefit scum more. So therefore your town 'criteria' is absolute bullshit The criteria may be "bullshit"....to an extent. It's "obvious" that in many games the people being the most active are more likely to be town. In this game, yamato, rayn, Sharrant, and to an extent Moctsa/geript have been the most active in going with discussion. Yes, it's possible one (or more) of them are scum, just have some big balls and decided to start the game guns-blazing going for town cred and trying to be an influence. The thing is that other than maybe yamato/Mocsta I don't see them doing that as scum (as opposed if they were wbg or something like that), plus their interactions with them seem legit in the sense that they are genuinely discussing stuff to be productive (which is likelier to come from townies than scum). For instance, take a look at all others that "chimed in" with "pro-town plans" and stuff.....yet made absolutely no impact at all in the game It's possible you'll find your first scums in there (if not on the inactive/"bored" players as well).
When I was talking about those "possible first scums", I was talking about Artanis primarily.
This is a fact: Artanis chimed in with the setup discussion, and even proposed a "pro-town plan", yet he had absolutely no impact in the game at all. He was just a passenger in the thread discussion about plans, coincidentally something scum love to do.
Compare that to other player's, like yamato, Mocsta, rayn, or geript, who cared about the discussion and the outcome from it. You can't say the same thing with Artanis
There are some people that acted similarly regarding plans, but not to the extent Artanis did IMO, and even some of those have other qualities about their play that make you have a completely different read on them (austin, Keirathi and maybe even RO spring to mind)
3) Unnecessary complaints that happen out of place:
On April 04 2013 22:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Holy shit thread moving fast.Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 22:49 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
That's true rayn, the plan does rely on the players that step up to be town. However it isn't a downside because the alternative is using no plan in which case scum can pick good roles anyway. Using this plan doesn't mean that the players that follow the RNG idea are instantly labeled town for the rest of the game. They'd still be under scrutiny. All it does is make it riskier for scum to pick one or two of the roles we consider the strongest for them. was in response to Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 22:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 04 2013 22:42 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 04 2013 18:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I have a better plan for the Yamato plan, if you do decide to go through with it. If we have people that look suffeciently town, are early in the list and are willing to follow the plan, they could RNG between blocking a role and taking a 'real' role themselves without revealing which one they'd want to pick. It would create a risk too great for scum to pick that role unless they're going to WIFOM about if the town player would actually do it or not, and it'd give a 50% shot for the town player to actually still get a useful role. It's less certain than the Yamato plan but I think it puts town in a better position. It could have the same net effect yet have a higher chance for town to get more blues. No one's actually addressed this yet, especially Yamato which I find strange as it's an improvement upon his plan. I'd propose we use it for 2 roles at the most though. Past that, it just becomes too unreliable. I don't like the VT claiming idea. Players that ended up with a VT role are still important to town in one way: Taking hits that would otherwise land on blues. I don't think the info gained on roles is worth this downside. There might be exceptions in certain situations (such as a player high up in the list claiming VT when he tried to pick a scummy role), but as the norm I'd be against it. I don't think that's a good idea either. Scum can easily pick good roles for them by "blocking" a good scum role and in LYLO just BAM - ggnore. Also if town blocks a role scum can leave them alive to be WIFOMed to death later.
On April 04 2013 23:22 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2013 23:18 Caller wrote:On April 04 2013 23:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Is there an ingame reason for it? do i need a reason? i just wanna kill him. Depends on if you want us to vote for him too or not. @Austin I don't have the time to read through that thread entirely, but from what I got out of it is that 3 people picked Janitor/CPR to ensure they had three people that could be held accountable for those actions? That sounds a bit excessive and I think we can get the same effect with less losses on blues from town's side.
On April 06 2013 00:23 Artanis[Xp] wrote:I really don't want to read through the mess from last night I've skimmed through it and it was unappealing. It seems the first three people indicated they just want to pick what they want/what 'they think is best for town', which worries me. It means they'll have no accountability. Going down the list, Sinani's indicated the same so I think we can pretty much presume the roleblocking strategy is going to be hard to enforce, unless anyone thinks they can convince VE to pick one. Sinani's filter looked particularly horrible when I just checked it. Are you actually going to play the game or are you content with trolling it?
On April 05 2013 08:08 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Just caught up with the thread and it's filled with, well, filler. Can't say I've grown much wiser alignment wise other than Oats giving me town vibes simply for all the prodding in everything. With all these plans of picking or not picking it seems people have forgotten about the RNG option for picking which I still believe is the strongest as it puts scum at a big risk of becoming VT if they go for the strong roles whilst still allowing said town players to potentially pick a strong blue role. It covers both flanks.
Here I find an unnecessary complaint about the thread.
Unnecessary in the sense that he seems to mention just to mention it. It serves little purpose other than complaint.
They seem out of place and happen too often as well. This seems a little fake to me, because I don't think a townie would spend so much time to complain about it in so many different places.
Nobody else did, bar maybe Vivax at some points (but those didn't feel so out of place either, specially since at least Vivax expanded a little bit on why he was complaining).
He's just complaining, specially those last 2 posts, just for the sake of complaining, and most importantly, for the sake of appearing he's active and contributing something.
By doing stuff like this, he's hiding in plain sight.
That last post makes me a little suspicious about him. Why?
First he discredits what's going on in the thread by complaining about it being filler. Then he posts a wishy washy read on Oats. Then he posts some fluff about the draft plans, and even mentions his plan even more.
Just look at that, "...the RNG option,.. which I still believe is the strongest...." . Even when talking about the plans he has to mention how HIS plan is the best, he has to mention how much he contributed to the thread by posting a super-duper plan, right!!?
Those 2 last posts of his are total fluff, specially with some of his reads (on Oats, sinani and VE).
Those posts scream "I'm trying to cram as much stuff as possible that makes others think I'm contributing!".
He crams so much bullshit in so little space, yet he has no time to do anything else? He has little time to comment on other stuff, or interact with people, be part of discussions, etc.
I've found scum do this the most. They have a single post where they cram some shit into it trying to compass different topics, posting fluff and filler, then just let it be that. They don't expand on those points, don't interact with others, don't participate in discussions willingly and without pressure, etc.
With those last 2 posts Artanis does this, which I find suspicious.
4) The geript case:
At this time I think it was when I was telling myself "Okay, Artanis seems suspicious to me, but I'll wait before pressuring him and see what he does"...
...and that "case" is what he does indeed.
On April 06 2013 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Hi Geript. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 13:05 geript wrote:
I'm not saying that you haven't done anything not town Mocsta-ish. There's just a very specific heuristic that town Mocsta seems to follow that you haven't hit on yet for me. I'm leaning town on you but until you get that one aspect I have a hard time putting you there fully.
As for your posting, I really like it. Translates to Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 13:05 geript wrote:
Hi, I think you're being townie, but you're not being you-townie, yet I still think you're townie but I'm not sure if you're townie.
Oh and I think you're pretty townie. Why on earth would a townie post this?
WHY?Mocsta wasn't even close to being in danger, and the town motivation for calling someone town, then suspicious, then town eludes me. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 14:00 geript wrote:
eh, I don't value investigation roles very highly. If people want to go for them, I'm not going to prevent it. I think that there are just better options available. As for protection roles, the only one I really like is jailkeeper. If you want to post a better list I would love to see it. As a matter of fact I think it would be good for other people to chime in on general draft strategy as it would give some of the slackers a better idea of what to go for. Investigation and protective roles are truly awful for town. Who'd want less KP at night in the game, right? Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 15:05 Mocsta wrote:On April 05 2013 14:58 geript wrote:
Sorry missed that question. The more I play the less full 180's seems like 'sure thing scum tells' to me; as a matter of fact, IIRC 90% of the 180's in the last game were done by town. I'd say it's suspicious and worth looking into him more, but there was a quote from the VE/BH mason log that it reminds me of it boiled down to something like "I don't want to push Geript into a corner because the more we do that the likelier he is to look like scum and prevent us from being able to avoid a mislynch. Instead I'd rather try and interact with him on his scumreads etc." I think VE's strategy is a very good one. I think it's suspicious but not to the point that it's a full scum tell for me. I'd much rather try and interact with him in a way to not lose him in case he is town. Fair points that are applicable to anyone. Look, though my emphasis is on Rayn, I am not tunneled on him. If he proves his innocence, I will move on. But having reviewed my interactions with him, I am struggling to see how he can even be a remote town read. (From my POV) At best he is null. ==== As an aside, I think holding off lynching candidates in the top 5 draft is terrible: just because there is a risk of lynching a townie that held an awesome role. If someone be scummy, you lynch them. Full Stop. Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 15:09 geript wrote:
Thank you Moc, now I know that you are town. This post apparently makes Mocsta town. In what world can scum not make a post like this? What is it about this post that makes you read him as this apparent townMocsta? Also, as Mocsta already brought up Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 15:50 Mocsta wrote:On April 05 2013 15:46 geript wrote:
@VE Why are you so quiet? I'm not used to you being so behind the scenes instead of being spammy. I would like to get a read on you. I sincerely hope that isnt a scum slip. Because, I expect more from your scum play than a loose phrase like that. I think I know what you meant; but the implication is.. you are aware of what VE is doing currently; which is knowledge townies certainly do not possess.... On its own it's not lynchworthy, but with how poorly scumript has been playing so far I'd say this adds to the case. Vote scum. Vote Geript.
Firstly, I don't know if I am the only one, but when I was reading the thread I had the feeling geript was likely town, with the way he proposed his plan, the behaviour of his, etc (right now I can't really post many reasons because I had these feelings some days ago and haven't checked geript since, but these were indeed my feelings then).
Second, let's dwell into the case.
That first part is horrendous. Even worse than VE's "RO called Oats out therefore is scum!" part from his case.
So, let's see if I get this straight: geript has specific knowledge of Mocsta's town play he uses as a heuristic he knows himself and nobody else does. He mentions this to Mocsta so Mocsta knows he's watching him.
Then mocsta does this apparently, and geript tells him he "passed the test".
Basically, geript knows something Mocsta always does as town, and thus is waiting for him to do it this game, to get a better read on him.
Sounds pretty normal right? And at worst null, right?
Well apparently not to Artanis
I just can't believe Artanis is serious with that accusation. It seems he saw something random from geript and decided to use it against him without even thinking about it, it's the only explanation I can find.
His next part in the case is something irrelevant about some comment geript made about setup speculation (which is and should be null at worst)
And...that's it? That's his "case"?
Oh wait, he mentions that "geript thinks Mocsta is town" bit again, and even mentions the "scumslip" (which is obviously not a scumslip for anyone with 2 brain cells).
I did half-seriously ask him if he was joking...to see if it maybe was a "bait" case to get info on geript...
...but it wasn't, meaning Artanis seemingly believed his own case, and I can't believe a town Artanis would do so.
5) Aggressive "fake" behaviour:
After he posts his case, his "push" of geript seems too fake too me.
He seems aggressive out of nowhere for no reason
On April 06 2013 07:45 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Also, how about actually commenting on the case rather than waffling around it?
On April 06 2013 07:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
How is calling someone town then scum then town over nothing not scummy? How is him not inventing a reason at random from a null post to suddenly call mocsta town after doubting him not scummy? What are your categories for someone being scum exactly?
On April 06 2013 08:10 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Can you explain in which way your history is relevant to calling him leaning town but not really mocstatown yet leaning townie but not really but yeah kinda in thread?
On April 06 2013 08:32 Artanis[Xp] wrote:I'm gonna put in as much effort as you just did. Bill Murray is scum. Now can you comment on the Geript case or are you going to be useless?
On April 06 2013 08:35 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 08:27 Mocsta wrote:On April 06 2013 08:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 06 2013 08:16 Mocsta wrote:On April 06 2013 08:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Mocsta, it's not an association read. That just adds to the case. The post that really set me off was the one where he called you town but not really but town five times in two sentences. Its association because there is no flip. The association was, if Geript is scum; it goes someways towards implicating Keirathi as associated scum (you know, the stuff that was taken precedence over the past 2/3 pages, originated by Caller) But I'm not using it as an association case at all, my main crux of the case was the post I mentioned which has no bearing on Keirathi or Caller or any of that. Look at that post alone and tell me if you see any town motivation in making it. Geript is a difficult player to work with. + Show Spoiler [Geript fallacies] +His second game on this forum (Mafia LX).. lets just say.. post-game, people decided he needs to be wrapped in cotton-wool.
Geript is not stupid; is aware of this perception; and realises to play it to his strengths.
Geript also has more balls than ppl give him credit for.
The other hard part is: his play is still developing.
He just played scum; so has more insight in how to blend in as scum; and also what he values are being a good townie.
I just wanted to point out here some context for a publicly considered "fragile" player - a reputation I dont think he deserves. I think there is merit in what you have pointed out, and am paying close attention to his responses. I also find it curious that when defending Rayn, he likes to point out validity in VE strategy as a basis. Soon he proceeds to call out VE for "working behind the scenes", and then later calls him out again for not scum hunting.
P.S. its sat morning for me, so I will be back in 10-12hrs. So he's playing to his strengths by saying things that have no town motivation? Please explain to me how that works. Are you saying that like Vivax he rolls scum in 100% of his games regardless of his role PM? If he's so aware of his perception, why does his posting history look so awful? You've basically said in this post that he's better than people give him credit for, yet his post history reeks of scum. If he's good as you say he is then this should ring even more alarm bells. The point regarding VE you make only compounds that, so that makes me wonder. Why so noncommittal?
He's being needlessly aggressive in my mind.
The way he posts seems fake too me as well. He seems to antagonize everything, specially when he starts arguing with Mocsta
He doesn't show a mentality of "I want to figure out the alignment of this player", he shows an mentality of total confrontation and wanting to paint geript as scum no matter what
Mocsta keeps arguing with Artanis about stuff, yet Artanis can only think of how to make geript look as scum even more.
On April 06 2013 07:59 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 07:57 yamato77 wrote:
Geript is obviously not mafia if you've been reading the game at all. Why?
There's also this.
I share yamato's opinion here, and I think some others did as well
I'd say other townies did as well. Artanis didn't.....let's take a guess why shall we?
On April 06 2013 20:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:I still don't like your posts pre-VE case Geript, but your case on VE and the constructive way you replied to my post makes me willing to reconsider my read. I'm curious to read VE's reply to it. Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 13:28 Mocsta wrote:@ArtanisXpI would like to continue discussion regarding your Geript case. Specifically, your qualms with Geripts wishy-washiness on whether I am town as follows: + Show Spoiler [Artanis on Geript] +On April 06 2013 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 13:05 geript wrote:
I'm not saying that you haven't done anything not town Mocsta-ish. There's just a very specific heuristic that town Mocsta seems to follow that you haven't hit on yet for me. I'm leaning town on you but until you get that one aspect I have a hard time putting you there fully.
As for your posting, I really like it. Translates to: =============================== On April 05 2013 13:05 geript wrote:Hi, I think you're being townie, but you're not being you-townie, yet I still think you're townie but I'm not sure if you're townie. Oh and I think you're pretty townie. =============================== Why on earth would a townie post this?
WHY?Mocsta wasn't even close to being in danger, and the town motivation for calling someone town, then suspicious, then town eludes me. What I find curious about the above, is when we start discussing Geript and you comment the below: + Show Spoiler [Artanis WishyWashy] +On April 06 2013 09:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I had you as weak town before our exchange, and the post you made questioned that read, so I questioned you. At first I thought it made you null again, but rereading it I realized that your wishy-washy post wouldn't make sense if Geript is scum, because he created an easy way for you to defend him which you denied. Since I believe Geript to be scum that makes you fairly town. On April 06 2013 09:16 Mocsta wrote:
Lol.. and if he is town.. what then? On April 06 2013 09:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Then you'd be null again. I find this interchange ironic, as you flip flop regarding my alignment much to the same manner Geript does. Let me guess, the heuristic doesnt apply to your play? No, I don't flip-flop on your alignment as all. I'm very specific in what my conclusion is and my thought process towards it is explained. I could've just posted that I thought you looked town now, and you'd ask me "why?" and then I'd say the same thing. I just saved us two posts of meaningless banter.
Show nested quote +Further, I shall ask the same question I asked Geript. On April 05 2013 15:18 Mocsta wrote:
Im not sure why I need to know you have me as town though? Nor why everyone else needs to know?
Im asking because, Im still trying to figure out if that affects my perception of you. Because you asked me a very specific question, which was my reasoning why I was questioning you. I'm explaining my thought process so you can follow it.
He then backs off geript, but I think it's weak.
He spent so much time and effort discrediting and accusing geript, to then just brush off saying "I still don't like your posts pre-VE case Geript..." ?
That's not how he came out at all, he didn't "not like geript's posts", he apparently thought geript was obvious scum incarnate and went guns blazing against him.
That just doesn't feel right and seems like a half-assed way to back off geript
6) Other stuff:
Some other stuff that make me wary....is basically how everybody is ignoring him.
He is indeed flying under the radar, and was until Meapak called him out.
Yet even Meapak has "forgotten" about him now
Not only that, right now there are eight different players being voted, yet nobody votes Artanis, yet nobody even talks about him.
I'd think scum would love throwing some dirt on town Artanis now to create even more chaos and have even more "candidates" in the table to confuse town...yet they don't.
He's also AFK now for like 24 hours. I won't take that much into consideration since it must have been some IRL issue.
You may realize a similar method I did in my last game.
Last game (MTG Mini Mafia 2), I had a scum read on Aperture, but basically didn't mention him at all for a while and put him under 0 pressure for 24 or so hours (or more).
I saw that nobody mentioned him, nobody casted suspicion on him, and he kept flying under the radar not contributing and doing shit.
That instantly told me he was scum (if he was town he wouldn't do shit all when under no pressure, and if he did, scum would love to cast suspicion on him, which they didn't).
I tried doing something similar here.
That method worked out in the past (Aperture was scum)....I'll let you figure out the rest.
7) Conclusion:
Yep, Artanis is scum, and we lynch him today.
Out of all other candidates, the only one I could see getting behind is S&B perhaps.
Yet I want to see S&B post some reads before doing so. I agree with some stuff said against him though, but I think I need more info on him.
Just as I'd want to see RO/VE/etc post more, defend themselves, contribute more, etc to get a better read off them.
Same with Palmar I guess, but I doubt he'll be much help. We'll just have to see his subtle actions when he does show up every once and then.
At the very least, I think he should be a lynch candidate, so that he stops hiding, defends himself, others post thoughts about him, and we can move forward in this day.
Artanis[Xp], seems you should have gone with Artanis[Win 7] instead, because you seem more like Artanis[Vista] to me 
##Vote: Artanis
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I wouldn't mind killing Snoman either.
....I believe our vigs should take care of him though, it seems like a better idea (instead of wasting a lynch on him).
I've ground less fond of Caller the more time goes on, wouldn't mind some pressure on him, and see how his read on Keirathi (and reads in general) evolved.
ObviousOne has completely disappeared since I called him out I think. This guy can be scum as well.
sinani could be scum, but there are some stuff that give me a gut feeling he's playing like his "misslynch bait" town persona. Dunno, it's just some of the stuff he posts. Wouldn't mind him getting pressured though
S&B I want him to do something meaningful before concluding anything about him
VE and RO should try and do something as well. I don't like them for lynch, but I don't like their passiveness this cycle so far either.
That leaves everybody I'm "suspicious" of right now I believe (others are null or I need more info/interactions/etc to do something)
That still leaves Artanis as the best lynch. So come on people! Sheep me :D
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Oh yeah forgot about rayn...
....I'll see how that plays out.
I don't believe this "he didn't talk about planning even when he got top 5 in draft order!" thing has that much merit though...
...the "He tunneled RO out of nowhere", the "he was so calm and made sense and now is trolling and being completely useless for no reason", and the "he hasn't contributed much at all" reasons are much more valid IMO
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Seems everybody is ignoring me...
......don't
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On April 07 2013 16:04 Oatsmaster wrote:
Yeah Gonzaw.
I disagree that Artanis is scum.
Pure gut read so meh.
If you got the time, look at British 2.
Is he similar to there? Or different.
Why not Vivax?
Also Im up for a sn0man lynch for being UTTERLY USELESS.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=400346&user=19729
lol Artanis is playing NOTHING LIKE his town play in British 2
Do you have anything specific about it that makes me wrong? It seems it only makes me more sure he's scum >_>
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So what "gut feeling" do you have that he's town?
Why is my case bad, why is Vivax more likely scum than Artanis?
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I encourage you guys to read Artanis' filter from British 2
See how "outgoing" he is there. See how he interacts with other people, pressures others, is not afraid to post
Now reread my case and check his filter this game. See the "fear" in his posts, for instance those 2 I mention where he's posting fluff and "cramming down too much bullshit".
They are 2 completely different playstyles.
Artanis was town in British 2
Therefore, Artanis is scum this time.
Meapak, why did you suddenly forget about Artanis, when he was actually getting more and more suspicious? I think you said something like "nobody except sinani resembles a decent lynch", so what about the guy you called out for "hiding in plain sight" before, who did nothing to convince you otherwise, is not a decent lynch?
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On April 07 2013 16:23 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 16:19 gonzaw wrote:
I encourage you guys to read Artanis' filter from British 2
See how "outgoing" he is there. See how he interacts with other people, pressures others, is not afraid to post
Now reread my case and check his filter this game. See the "fear" in his posts, for instance those 2 I mention where he's posting fluff and "cramming down too much bullshit".
They are 2 completely different playstyles.
Artanis was town in British 2
Therefore, Artanis is scum this time.
Meapak, why did you suddenly forget about Artanis, when he was actually getting more and more suspicious? I think you said something like "nobody except sinani resembles a decent lynch", so what about the guy you called out for "hiding in plain sight" before, who did nothing to convince you otherwise, is not a decent lynch?
Meta rules require you to compare a scum game as well, INB4 Keirathi/Yamato yells at you
There are no "meta rules"
So do you agree or not? My case alone stands by itself and I used no meta at all.
The fact his recent (I think) town play is so different in an "obvious" way just adds to it.
You are also free to check a scum game from his that "discredits" my case or something. Remember that people can play differently as scum at times. For proof check my scum games from Liar Game and Themed Game Mafia
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On April 07 2013 16:31 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 16:27 gonzaw wrote:On April 07 2013 16:23 ObviousOne wrote:On April 07 2013 16:19 gonzaw wrote:
I encourage you guys to read Artanis' filter from British 2
See how "outgoing" he is there. See how he interacts with other people, pressures others, is not afraid to post
Now reread my case and check his filter this game. See the "fear" in his posts, for instance those 2 I mention where he's posting fluff and "cramming down too much bullshit".
They are 2 completely different playstyles.
Artanis was town in British 2
Therefore, Artanis is scum this time.
Meapak, why did you suddenly forget about Artanis, when he was actually getting more and more suspicious? I think you said something like "nobody except sinani resembles a decent lynch", so what about the guy you called out for "hiding in plain sight" before, who did nothing to convince you otherwise, is not a decent lynch?
Meta rules require you to compare a scum game as well, INB4 Keirathi/Yamato yells at you There are no "meta rules" So do you agree or not? My case alone stands by itself and I used no meta at all. The fact his recent (I think) town play is so different in an "obvious" way just adds to it. You are also free to check a scum game from his that "discredits" my case or something. Remember that people can play differently as scum at times. For proof check my scum games from Liar Game and Themed Game Mafia That's not what I'm getting at here, though, and I will go take a look at an Artanis scum game after I post this, but you cannot say "IF HE DOESNT MATCH TOWN HE MUST BE SCUM" because that's based on imperfect information. This precise shit came up in RED. You need to show how it more closely resembles a mafia game, not just how it doesn't resemble a town game. BRB after database check.
I never said anything about his meta until Oats convinced me to look at a game of his (still don't know what makes Oats think Artanis is town though).
AFTER checking that game of his, the differences in play are pretty astonishing, which convinces me my case is right even more. It's not "IF HE DOESNT MATCH TOWN HE MUST BE SCUM" at all.
Geript, can you comment on my case please? I can't see how the stuff brought against rayn is any stronger than what I've posted about Artanis, and it seems you've read my case
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On April 07 2013 16:40 Oatsmaster wrote:Gonzaw you understand what I mean by GUT READ? (it means I felt that he was town reading the thread.) I agree that artanis looks scummy. I still want to lynch Vivax though, Im way more familar with his play and this does not feel like his town play. Also he is scummy!?!?! (so wishywashy right? )
Ehmm....generally when posting gut reads you have to give a slight indication of what gives you said read.
Was it something specific he said that gave you townie points?
Was it some specific behaviour of his? A specific interaction with another player? Something specific he said?
Give more details bro.
I have dozens and dozens of gut reads when I play as town, but I try my best to explain WHY I have them. At least try, specially when you even agree Artanis is scummy and apparently agree with my case.
I'll have to reread Vivax even more, but I doubt my read on him will change from what I posted earlier. I'm eager to see what he does now that he seemingly backed off RO.
Also Oats no offense but in this post you sound like a retard >_>
lol
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On April 07 2013 16:48 ObviousOne wrote:
@Gonzaw:
Artanis[XP] mafia meta highlights based on his one recorded scum game in the database: Haunted Mafia
- Replaced into game at P64
- GG out P116
- Total of perhaps 8 "useful" posts over 50 pages
Characteristics I picked out from Haunted [2010]:
- Makes summaries {conglomerations of players posts} with blanket statements regarding alignment - I used to do this all the time especially in my earliest games
- Feigned/Real inactivity/unavailability - not necessarily a scum tell but a useful scum tool
- Offers to be "helpful" for a period of time - not taking the initiative and doing something useful himself
- Defensive stance - possibly a product of being under suspicion when being replaced in, but in this game was used to misdirect suspicion on lurkers to non-mafia faction
I'm looking for something more recent, but Artanis tends to host games rather than play... search filter only went back to March 2012 and the database shows no scum games other than Haunted.
That game was 2 years ago bro.
Good effort I guess though lol
(damn I'm not sounding very wise lately )
Hmm,...this gives me a good feeling about you though. If Artanis is scum, I see no reason for you to go checking all his gaming history to not push any scum agenda at all (even if artanis is town this still holds true)
On April 07 2013 16:49 Oatsmaster wrote:Haha. That was at a point where I thought he was like this in British. AND CLEARLY HE WASNT. So my basis for my gutread was wrong. With 20+ players, any other reads Gonzaw? Also im totes town right You know how i play scum
Read my posts.
I'd say Sno is the other guy most likely to be scum.
Nobody else did much to get a good scumread on, rather than null reads and null-leaning-red reads (which I've already expanded on).
Anyways, I'm not calling you scum.
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I'll wait until people start sheeping me I guess.
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Everybody "conveniently" left out Artanis from their talk, even Meapak who called him out previously, except some specific players when he made the case (BM, you, yamato and geript).
So that's not really an "association" or anything, more than it is an association with VE, or RO, or anybody else.
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You are getting annoying Oats.
There is a 10.000 essay telling you why Artanis is the scummiest shit in this game instead of Vivax
And you have I dunno how many people telling you Vivax is just not that scummy.
At all, Vivax is the OPPOSITE of scummy, but that's so characteristic of his that it is scummy in itself
Right now you are just sounding childish dude, wtf?
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On April 07 2013 17:35 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 17:30 gonzaw wrote:
Everybody "conveniently" left out Artanis from their talk, even Meapak who called him out previously, except some specific players when he made the case (BM, you, yamato and geript).
So that's not really an "association" or anything, more than it is an association with VE, or RO, or anybody else. I assume you = me If so, your the second "old-school" player taht has disagreed with me regarding association definition? WTF? Association is calling someone scum due to association relationship, without seeing a flip. So yes, leaving all the other shit about Rayn aside: calling him scum due to not giving a read on Artanis is association, as Artanis has not yet flipped.
I meant it's not a valid association read. At least no more valid than saying "VE is scum because he made a case against RO to deflect attention off Artanis and didn't mention Artanis at all!" or "Obvious/RO are scum for only mentioning geript and not Artanis in that exchange!" or "Meapak is scum because he is ignoring Artanis even after he called him out!" or "Everybody else is scum for not even mentioning Artanis in the first place!"
Bear in mind some of these I mentioned might actually be right
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On April 07 2013 17:37 gonzaw wrote:You are getting annoying Oats. There is a 10.000 essay telling you why Artanis is the scummiest shit in this game instead of Vivax And you have I dunno how many people telling you Vivax is just not that scummy. At all, Vivax is the OPPOSITE of scummy, but that's so characteristic of his that it is scummy in itself Right now you are just sounding childish dude, wtf?
*There is a 10.000 word essay...
*but that's so uncharacteristic of him that...
fuck grammar
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On April 07 2013 17:39 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 17:37 gonzaw wrote:You are getting annoying Oats. There is a 10.000 essay telling you why Artanis is the scummiest shit in this game instead of Vivax And you have I dunno how many people telling you Vivax is just not that scummy.
At all, Vivax is the OPPOSITE of scummy, but that's so characteristic of his that it is scummy in itself Right now you are just sounding childish dude, wtf? I agree Oats is getting annoying. But not with Vivax is super town; OR ppl have told oats otherwise. i dont recall anyone sticking up for Vivax... o.0
No, Vivax is acting "normal", as in like what any other normal player would act normally in a normal game.
He makes some sense at times as well
Remembering back on LIX.....this is surprising and very very weird.
Maybe he just got better? I dunno
He's not obvs town like others, but he's certainly not the "scummiest shit" in the game, and I'd leave him be until he does something else besides his push of RO (which he apparently backed out of, thus he needs to do something, and we need to watch closely what he does)
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Why don't you make a case yourself to show us why?
Right now you are just yelling "vivax obs scum come on kill him y u no listen to me, cmon" and being a nuisance
If you keep like this I don't know if it may even change my mind about your alignment.
Also, if every word of that 10.000 word essay is right, yes it makes him scummier
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Anyways yeah rereading his filter again I guess he could be scum. I think some of the stuff he said in his first 1-2 posts seemed off for some reason.
But I'm not confident on that at all right now, so yeah tough luck Oats.
If you make a good convincing case it might help.
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@Artanis: Well that's all nice and dandy, but I had a feeling you'd respond like that from either alignment.
My points have more "higher purpose" than what you are supposedly defending yourself against.
For instance you post stuff like:
How is pushing my RNG plan not productive? I kept bringing it up even when people ignored me because I thought it was a good plan. I pushed it when people weren't discussing it and asked people how they felt about it. I commented on the Yamato plan and why I disagreed then improved upon it.
I'm not trying to contribute, I am contributing. So contributing makes me scum? Okay. I don't see the putting up an appearance at all. I read the thread, had an idea and pushed for it.
So I'm scum for contributing but not getting my idea through despite asking numerous times. You could also consider the option that everyone wanted to get their own ideas through, plus the distraction of interaction between people who said they didn't like plans and just wanted to pick their favourite roles made it so that no plan actually got through, not just mine. I really don't see how you can hold that against me.
Yes, I am complaining because I hate big games and I got busy since the time I signed up. So you can see me pushing my plan here once again, yet I'm supposedly just talking to put up an appearance. The pushing of my idea has a very clear objective. I want people to talk about it.
It's called pressure. You might've heard of it. If I posted "hm, I still kinda think Geript is scum but I'm doubting about it." would there be any pressure left? No, he could sit back, relax, and answer things thought out thoroughly. I wanted him to react with his gut, and he showed a mindset that made me think twice.
You are completely missing the point.
I make a point about how you are "contributing", yet you can only look at the fact that you are contributing as if it somehow exonerates you
I make a point about how you are "pressuring" geript, yet you can only look at the fact that you are pressuring him as if it somehow exonerates you
Hint: If just "pushing your setup ideas", "pressuring someone", made everybody town, then there would be no scum lynches in any game whatsoever.
I don't have anything else to say though.
If you are somehow town I expect you to do something eventually (before you are lynched D1 preferably) that convinces me of that. You defending yourself like you are doing so far is not part of that at all.
I thought scum wants to say very little with a lot of words. Guess it's the other way around when you have a scumread on someone.
You didn't say "a lot" either. Like I said it was fluffy fluff pile of bullshit stuff.
Also I guess you have nothing to say about the difference in your play between this game and British 2 I take it?
Here are the filters for convenience again:
Artanis in British 2: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=400346&user=19729
Artanis in this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766&user=19729[/QUOTE]
It's very interesting how my case keeps being buried and never mentioned, when (imo) it's the strongest case in the game so far, yet other players get bandwagoned with so little against them, like for instance S&B
If you don't agree with it, refute it, it's that simple. Don't bury it.
On April 08 2013 02:33 Restraining Order wrote:
Eh, snb looks like the best lynch atm.
No he isn't
He might look like best vig shot at worst (considering how totally useless he has been).
Is this the most you are willing to contribute this D1 RO?
On April 08 2013 02:01 austinmcc wrote:
Vivax is missing the point, but he's not new and I wouldn't attribute that post to him being scummy. Yes, it shows that he's not following his read throughout the thread there, but it's not like scumVivax should be popping into thread and dropping that question without reading through to see what's happened.
gonzaw, thoughts on shelvocke?
I'm null on Shevlocke. I had found some stuff I found a little suspicious of him at first (like his first post I believe), and I guess some stuff others say makes sense about him (like how he pushed VE).
But nothing convinces me for a D1 lynch.
He hasn't been around for much either, which is not good for him, but it isn't good for me to get a better read on him either.
Now I'd like you to return the favor, which is....you know....commenting on the gigantic case I made.
VE, why are you trying to act so hesitant?
Where is the guns-blazing town VE I know of? You seem afraid in your posts or something.
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People HAVE been talking about Shevlocke. Meapak, you, and some others, ever since D1 started.
Scum can "push" any pro-town setup plan they want if they know it will never be implemented. It's also about roles so if implementing that plan gives them enormous town cred why not do it?
He didn't push it hard either so that's moot, he just proposed it, and mentioned it in passing in those "fluffy posts" here and there.
I won't really comment on Artanis "backing off". It did feel a little off to me if he was scum, but I can't take that as sole evidence he's town or some shit.
In MTG 2 Aperture did some stuff that made me back off my scum read on him (there was some stuff that made me and Prome go "Yeah this guy town", like him PMing us out of the game to tell us one of our jokes was funny or something like that)
Scum are totally able to do stuff that makes it feel "off" they are scum.
Reading his whole play though, it makes me think I should ignore that.
I don't mind shevlocke being a lynch candidate or being discussed (hopefully he shows up and does something as well), but I have no reason to lynch him over Artanis today.
I also wish someone vigs snoman and/or S&B tonight. This shit is getting ridiculous in terms of activity/caring about the game.
I'd prefer sno man dying before S&B though, for reasons previously stated.
I also want to know what Obvious concluded about Artanis when he checked his game history. He hasn't concluded anything yet
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Oh S&B posted it seems.
Anyways this D1 is like a fuckfest, with some null-scummy dudes (Shevlocke, others), and people that don't even show up (snoman, Caller, shevlocke himself, and more and more)
Let's just kill Artanis to make this D1 somewhat productive.
Unless someone is day vigi and has a super plan for today or something.
Also, yamato+rayn+Sharrant, i'm disappoint son
You guys spent I dunno how many hours discussing shit in the drafting phase, yet now you guys disappear and do shit (I guess this applies to yamato the least, but I don't remember him being as active as before, at least comparing to Mocsta for instance).
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I made that post before you posted s&b.
Hye deconduo, what do you think about the Artanis case?
You seemed too hung up with the Vivax issue to comment on it.
Vivax too.
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Hmm, one quick question guys (please answer):
Are you content with the way this D1 is going? As in, how discussion in general is going, how scumhunting is going, how pressure on players is going, how consolidation is going, etc? How players are part of thread/discussions, etc?
I personally don't like it that much.
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Meapak why aren't you voting Artanis then?
austin, my main point is that Shevlocke was started to being talked about once D1 started. Yes, by the time I made my Artanis case people didn't really talk about him much, but nobody really did anything else other than wagon on S&B and argue with Vivax.
I don't think my point on Artanis goes well with Shevlocke because of that. Remember the ONLY time someone called Artanis out was Mepaak and me back in the drafting picking phase basically (and maybe Mocsta when he was arguing with him about geripts case).
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Hmm....
Okay I have an idea guys, wait a second while I write the post
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Wait deconduo, have you mentioned why you want to kill Shevlocke before? I've skimmed your filter and didn't see anything (I may have missed it though)
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Hmm, my Artanis lynch seems to have quite a bit of resistance. Interesting (not to say those resisting are scum though. I have some slight town reads on some resisting it, which makes it even more "interesting").
So let's try something different:
I have the ability to kill someone this D1
So, get to it town.
Who should I kill?
More importantly, for certain players (snoman, etc), convince me why I shouldn't just kill you right now.
I hope EVERYBODY tells me in detail who they want me to kill, why, how that affects their lynch candidate, or if they want me to keep my KP for later and not use it.
This is your chance to get your SCUMREAD KILLED 100%, if you are good at convincing both me and town (but mostly me); so this is your chance to step up your game and actively try to get your scumread killed (no hiding behind "parking your vote" or shit like that)
"But gonzaw, why haven't you killed Artanis yet?"
Because I'm not an idiot. I prefer some discussion on these kind of players. If someone is active or semi-active and I find him suspicious or even as scum, it's more important to see how other people react, see town sentiment on that guy, and at worst be convinced against killing him if he's somehow town, plus creating discussion and the like.
Also apparently people are not convinced by my case. I think killing him D1 without any feedback from town would have been a bad idea in retrospect, even if he flipped scum
I may or may not kill him this D1. I still prefer him for lynch instead.
So snoman, Shevlocke, RO, maybe rayn/VE/Caller/Palmar/Sharrant/etc. Show me this D1 why I shouldn't just kill you right now.
Also of course post who you want killed, or if you don't want me to kill anybody just yet. Failing to do so may result in a little symptom....called being shot/nuked through your head
"But gonzaw, why complain about others vigging someone, if you could kill them yourself?"
Because I'm not an idiot
I want Snoman, etc to make a stance and have a chance to prove to us they are town and scumhunt before just blindly killing them.
I hoped they'd do something by now but that failed. Hopefully this doesn't.
"But gonzaw, why claim now?
I reread the roles and I don't see anything that can "fuck up" with a day KP (other than maybe "Showtime!", but that can fuck us at any time, and (of course), a day vig/Assassin used on me)
Plus I feel there's not much going on. Many people oppose my Artanis case, so that's going nowhere. People are suspicious of some other players, but it just keeps it there, specially if those players are not doing anything else currently or maybe not even show up.
I feel this D1 is kind of stagnated, and I don't like it. I mean there are like 9 different people having votes on them right now, there's no consolidation, both in votes and in thread sentiment. Some people have even parked their vote on some random guys (yamato on Palmar, Sharrant on Keirathi) and they seem to keep it there.
Some people are just coasting through not doing shit and feeling no pressure. I think it may be time to change that.
I tried changing that up with the Artanis case, but it seems it hasn't worked.
Let's see if this changes anything.
+ Show Spoiler +Also if someone shoots me right now or something insta-lynch him please
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Well I haven't used it yet have I?
Just want to get some people talking, and if not shoot them (so the threat is real and not imaginary so they can keep doing shit)
I still want to lynch Artanis. As more people start contributing and doing more stuff (Shevlocke included), we can consolidate better, and maybe even net us another scum via day KP.
Anyways, interesting sinani. Why would you want to kill BM instead of anybody else, like Snoman?
Yes, BM has been somewhat absent this whole D1 I think. But why kill him over Caller for instance?
I kind of "liked" BM's input back in the draft/role picking phase. It was completely different than his trolly "post shit" stuff he did in LIII I think. He seemed to be putting some effort.
Wouldn't mind threatening him with death to post more a little bit though
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On April 08 2013 06:46 sinani206 wrote:
gonzaw are you going to claim exactly what your role is?
Why, you scum Assassin?
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On April 08 2013 06:45 Palmar wrote:
KILL SOMEONE GONZAW, USE YOUR WRATH, MAKE THEM PAY
THEY WILL FEEL MY WRATH EVENTUALLY PALMAR. DO NOT WORRY
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Actually, if a townie took Assassin/BloodyCobbler I'd like it if they claimed. This will take some fear out of claiming.
Hell, even if scum took assassin they can claim (if they use it on a townie they'll be outed). They won't do that though
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On April 08 2013 07:00 Restraining Order wrote:
In terms of scaring-me-about-getting-shot, I'll give your threat a 1 out of 10
I'll indulge though. Since you seem to ask for a gun-at-the-head read.
If I had to, I'd shoot Sno right now.
Not BM.
But,
I would not shoot now.
These things work better if it's not blatantly obvious you're just fishing for reactions/pressuring people into doing 'something', FYI.
It works because I can actually shoot whoever I want. I'll shoot those I think are scum of course. If you are town the point is that you don't make us waste one KP on you.
I will shoot someone if they don't do shit and keep lurking/being scummy as fuck, don't get me wrong. I'm just giving a heads up to try and not get such a shitty D1, that was my primary intention (if not I could have just shot by now. I didn't even plan on shooting/claiming this D1)
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On April 08 2013 06:56 Keirathi wrote:
@gonzaw:
I don't think there's anyone worth shooting right now. Not with 28 hours still left in the day.
So you still think Artanis is a good lynch? Do you not agree with my counterpoints?
You didn't provide counterpoints, other than "I don't find it convincing" >_>
The "fake" aggression is a gut feeling from me. I've seen several scum react in that way, differently than a townie would, and push people with that mentality before. I skimmed his British game and I don't really feel his behaviour in that regard is the same, unless you can provide examples.
So yes, I still think he's a good lynch.
On April 08 2013 07:13 Vivax wrote:
Gonzaw, for a start, ask that mofo sinani why he only shows up when you claim vig to tell you to shoot BM. Force him to make a case cause his entrance just now was ugh. It was his first post since quite a lot of time when it shouldn't have been such a post.
Ask him yourself I'm not thread police.
I try to focus on the stuff that I think matters. I don't really think sinani's retort about killing BM right now matters that much, mainly because it's not alignment indicative (taking account it was sinani that said so) and I doubt I can get a better answer out of him.
I'll analyze sinani accordingly when I find it necessary (so far I don't, unless you can convince me it is).
@austin: You are being kind of annoying right now dude. I've told you millions of times what I think of Shevlocke (why I'm indecisive on him). I'm waiting to see what he does, or what he doesn't do (the more he fails to drop by here).
I won't instantly think he's scum just by rereading his filter again. And I read his filter.
I still don't get what makes Shevlocke scummier than Artanis.....like..did I miss a scumslip or something >_>
I mean, I get how someone can think of him as scum.....but I'm missing how Artanis looks better than him, and I'm missing that "he's definitely scum" way I feel about scum :/
I will say that the more Shevlocke fails to appear and contribute, the more I feel like I could shoot him as well.
I'm torn between sno and shevlocke (although Shevlocke is more of a "yeah he could be scum, but I'm not sure if he should be a lynch (because of stuff explained before); maybe straight up killing him outside of lynch would be better"), leaning on sno.
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Question: How do you guys feel about both Shevlocke and Artanis being scum? Do you think this is possible (even considering Artanis' vote of Shevy up there)? If so, what do you think the correct course of action would be today?
Also, Sharrant get your ass in here, take your vote off Keirathi and do something.
Yamato, tell us why you parked your vote on Palmar and did shit all D1. Yes, I know you are "suspicious" of Palmar from that case you wrote, but you've ignored everything about Artanis, Shevlocke, and everything else. This is not helpful and is NOT how you played in early draft phase. Step up
I advise those that have votes on "irrelevant" people with just 1-2 votes take a step back, analyze them and Artanis/Shevlocke/etc again, and then tell us if you will keep parking your vote on that irrelevant guy, try to actually convince us to lynch him, or take a stance on Arty/Shevvy and put your vote on an actual lynch.
RO, do you still think S&B is scum? You parked your vote on him and I don't remember you commenting on him at all afterwards. You haven't commented on Artanis either.
Like half the game is just apathetic towards everything. I wish I could just shoot all of you :/
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@austin: Stop with the "he was discussed off a bunch" thing. Reread that part of my case, and what exactly I mean by it.
I'm not meaning what you think I'm meaning.
+ Show Spoiler +My point was that Artanis wasn't mentioned at all in the rolepicking phase nor D1. Shevlocke was mentioned in D1. There, argument ended
My feelings on Shevlocke reflect (and/or reflected) the same thoughts I made in that 1st post.
I can see some of the stuff he did, and mentioned about VE as scum for instance, but I can also think of him doing so as town in a null way.
I can't really say much more about it. It might help if I knew who he was smurfing as.
You can't just bully me into thinking he's surely scum or something right now, just as apparently I can't bully you into thinking Artanis is scum.
Right now I'll let things be (I'm a wise man in the end ya know?) and see how things develop from here.
Nothing good will come out from me spamming the thread regarding this whole issue again.
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Yeah, I might shoot VE for shits and giggles.
When people ask me "If you had a day vig, who would you use it on?" I always respond "On VE obviously"
You just can't go wrong with a VE day vig, you can't
Anyways....yeah come on people sheep me on Artanis.
Keirathi/austin, come on, ##Join: SAT and sheep me!
Look:
+ Show Spoiler +On April 08 2013 06:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Here's my reads on all those who are voted. VisceraEyesDefensive play, agrees with a lot of things in the thread. Seems complacent. The only game I remember that I played with VE was LI in which he was in everyone's face as scum. I also observed his play in Hydra Mini Mafia which he gave up in as soon as he got caught. This game feels like neither. He created a bad case on RO. Rereading Geript's case on him however does show a few valid points that point towards VE being scum which he never answered. Rather than defending himself, VE started attacking people that jumped on the wagon which isn't alignment indicative to me, as it's a both a valid way of finding scum and an easy way to dodge responsibility. However, I don't like his 180 going from his initial read of RO to Deconduo over one post that really didn't mean much. Leaning scum. VivaxVivax is Vivax. In all previous games I've played with him he's rolled scum, but sometimes the host accidentally flipped him green. This game I feel like he's playing better than any game he's had before. There's still Vivax moments of trying to be right where everyone else is wrong, but he's being cooperative. I see no reason why he wouldn't stick to his unreadable meta if he rolled scum. Town. Restraining OrderThe case on him was weak. Has done fairly little, but nothing that suggests a scum or a town mindset. Null on him. KeirathiSeems willing to want to figure the game out. Small thing that bothered me was that he had a plan regarding people picking roles to counter scumpicks, yet also advocating that everyone just picks the roles they want. Other than that, he's had a very constructive attitude and has been scumhunting and paranoid. Likely town. PalmarHas a hilarious plan, never actually goes anywhere with it. Trolls around all game. Throws a few accusations but never substantiates them. Says BM is scum but never goes anywhere with it, then jumps on the VE wagon as soon as he notices no one else is putting in the effort to get BM lynched. After checking out RED Team's Prize (where he was blue) he always pushed his own ideas. He asked people what they thought, but nothing that came close to sheeping. He's a lot more disinterested than what I've seen in that game. Leaning scum. ShelvockeHis filter is fairly empty. His D1 plan was "pick whatever you like" then never actually pushed it. Rather than contributing to plans, he just calls all of them bad. Spends a lot of time on setup talk then jumps on the VE wagon as well. He never replies to the case made on him or any suspicion laid on him at all. Avoiding responsibility for his reads. There's really nothing in his filter to suggest towniness. Scum. RaynpelikoneetContradicted my RNG plan without a real reason. Nominates himself as towniest very quickly. Calls everyone that pushed ideas town. Randomly passes by scumreads whilst only having talked about setup before then, doesn't explain why. Massive amount of oneliners that clutter up the thread and say very little/nothing. His paranoia and flailing about in the last two pages of his filter make me hesitant, but still leaning scum. StrongandbigBasically did nothing until mid D1, but I like this post. Pointing a lot of fingers at people for good reasons. Leaning town. DeconduoPlaying a fairly timid game, but I can follow his thought process very well. It's hard to really put a finger to, but all his posts speak to me from a town viewpoint and VE's reason for voting Deconduo feels weak. I'm willing to vote for VE, Palmar, Shevlocke and Raynpelikoneet, with a preference for Shevlocke.
Artanis doesn't even care about the game.
He makes a list of reads that follow town sentiment (VE lurky, Kei town, Shevlock scum, Palmar lurky scum, etc etc)
He then parks his vote on the other "obvious" lynch candidate.....and just leaves.
Like hell I'm going to believe a town Artanis, after being called out and having a giant case on him, will just make a single post with some "normal" reads, park his vote on the dude everybody else wants to lynch, and just leave and do shit all.
You may notice how I didn't even respond to that post of his. I didn't so I could see if he was going to follow it up with something else.
He could have commented on anything else, he could have pressured someone else to see if they were scum, he could have discussed shit with us regarding this whole Shevlock issue and other stuff.
But no, he parked his vote and went AFK.
All he has done this game is:
1)Do all the scummy shit I've mentioned in my case
2)Disappear for like half of D1
3)Come back and make a generic wall of text defense against myself
4)Disappear again
5)Make generic bland list of reads, park vote on guy
6)Disappear again
austin, Kei, please make a little more effort in telling us why Artanis is town
Please read his filter from British Mafia 2 and tell me how he's playing similarly, and if he's not playing similarly, tell me why he's playing differently as town and not as scum.
Also I dunno why but after Obvious reading ALL of Artanis games and concluding the same thing as I do....it makes me feel better about my Artanis read >_>
The thing about Shevlocke that makes me doubt lynching him....is that he doesn't seem to "appear" as scum seem to do. He doesn't post fluff shit, he speaks his mind in a blunt manner.
He instantly calls VE out for what it is, and doesn't go around posting bullshit about it.
He then calls VE out again in a similar fashion, no bullshit, just sticking to his guns.
Obviously he could somehow be scum and still do that.....but for a D1 lynch? Nah
It'd be better lynching VE, or maybe even Palmar, or even sinani or someone else, or even Sno (although I'd prefer a shot on him) than Shevlocke at this moment
Right now 8 people are voting Artanis.
So if you guys dont' want Artanis lynched, make an effort to PROVE to us he's town, rather than dismiss my case and accusations with just "meh I am not convinced with that".
If you are just not sure about Artanis (instead of thinking he's town), then don't worry. Just sheep me and we'll be a big nice family :D
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austin, go read British Mafia 2 once and for all before just dismissing it and saying "yeah I haven't read his games yet" :/
I remember Artanis in LI (I forgot he was there if OO hadn't mentioned it lol) accused me of a scumslip as well.
I....the most pro-town motherfucker in LI, and he caught a "scumslip" and seriously accused me, using an aggressive serious tone. I instantly knew he was scum after that....it was impossible a townie would do that
Now go read his geript case. Geript was pretty much town (in the eyes of many, me, yamato, etc), and Artanis comes up with some "bullshit" stuff (including the scumslip) and goes against him.
I had the same reaction
I'm going to trust my gut on this one.
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On April 08 2013 10:24 Mocsta wrote:
Gonzaw
Unrelated question.
Do you think I spamming up the thread?
I am asking because my last couple posts have all been big text walls; and not sure if Im getting my message across succinctly at the moment.
Nah you are doing fine I think.
Your posts consolidate some nice needed points regarding Artanis and the like
Just don't worry too much about it
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Does anyone have old games from Sharrant, both town and scum?
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On April 08 2013 11:06 yamato77 wrote:
Gonzaw, what do you think about killing sinani?
Hmm, not that convinced right now.
If he's town that'd be better than a misslynch though....
...but if that's what should happen, it'd be better to let him live until D2 at least...and maybe shoot him there
I won't shoot anybody that hasn't had a chance to "redeem" themselves yet. Sno being so damn awful could be tied to IRL stuff. I mean, he hasn't even voted yet, he may even get replaced/modkill.
BC was seeking a replacement in the "Player Replacement" thread, and so far it seems Snoman is the one fitting that bill.
He damn sure looks scummy though, but I'd wait until he shows up to do any shit and analyze what he does, or for his replacement to get here and analyze what he does (knowing that his predecessor was scummy as fuck)
We can just vig him at night, either he if he just comes here to avoid modkill and does shit all, or his replacement if he gets replaced.
I can save my day KP to D2, and there shoot guys that don't do shit. Seems the ability is more useful that way.
I hate scummy guys replacing though
Something like that game can happen, where Ver was scum, got replaced, and his replacement acted in a way that made him survive until end-game or something. That sucks.
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Well, today we are lynching Artanis and he'll flip scum. No worries about sinani there.
Tonight...well townies die
On D2, we can see if sinani becomes a problem if he's town and "has always going to have suspicion cast over him", if he wasn't vigged on N1 by then (or shot by scum...somehow).
I think I'm a nice Medic target though, so I hope I don't die shot tonight. I never get shot by scum as town these days though.
If we lynch scum today even if I die tonight that KP won't be missed that much (if town has more KP...as it may seem it has)
I'm not totally convinced on using it on anybody other than Sno today either (and I'm sure other townies with KP can deal with that if I die).
I don't really want to rush the KP just in case I die tonight. That doesn't seem wise.
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lol at that 2-way bandwagon on OO
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Hmm, have nothing to say about you guys' cases. Let's see what happens
I'll say Obvious started to rub me the "right" way, with the way he went analyzing Artanis, to his conclusion (the right one....I hope), and some stuff he said.
He was indeed fluffy and shit early in the game though.
The timing is indeed hilarious though.
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On April 08 2013 11:28 Caller wrote:
fuck you goznaw, we're lynching obviousone tonight. if he doesn't get lynched, i'm going to nuke him first, and then i'm going to nuke you. change your vote.
do i have nukes? ^_^ who knows
You are free to do with your nukes what you want, as long as you take responsibility for your actions and the consequences of them
Also, hey! Maybe we can start a nuke war together!
WW3: Mafia Edition! Wohoo!
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Oh Caller, you are so cute when you get angry! :3
Anyways, imma go to sleep soon, and tomorrow I'll get here 1 hour or 30 minutes before deadline I hope.
...hmm, actually I'm not sure. If I can't get here I'll try getting in by phone (I suck reading games via phone though)
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Ooh, thank god I didn't try to shoot VE then!
Hmm, this brings something interesting to the table
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There's a chance Sno or sinani took NRA member...
....goddamn now I feel so much better for not shooting either of them yet :/
The NRA member out of them and VE could claim, although it does seem it's likely VE.
For anyone at 1-5 place taking NRA member....it's weird as fuck if they are town. At that stage you wouldn't take NRA member I think. Oh well, geript did, but geript tried to be townie so it makes sense (neither sinani/Sno/VE tried to be townie, and I'd say OO and rayn don't seem to me like they'd take NRA member either if they are town).
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Well...technically I could just shoot Artanis and we could lynch VE.
It is an option. I doubt I'll do it (specially since I may not be here until the deadline).
I'd like some explanations from VE, or alternatively....him showing up at all ya know?
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FINALLY IT HAS ENDED
FOR CHRISTS SAKE
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I'd like to call deconduo, MZ and sinani for the superb use of their roles.
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On April 18 2013 12:19 Mocsta wrote:
Awesome
This was embarrassing, but at least we got there.
Fuck face should have conceded. Game took forever
Why would he concede when you had pinned yamato and sinani as mafia because BM put them apart in similar intervals in his post or stuff like that?
If he wasn't SO LAZY he would have won to be honest. Like....if he had tried to appear active and contribute and call people out and post stupid speculation he could have gotten to LYLO
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On April 18 2013 12:28 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 12:24 gonzaw wrote:
I'd like to call deconduo, MZ and sinani for the superb use of their roles. I dont know man, that nuke was pretty sick. WIthout it, austin may not have been supertownie master.
You mean besides the green check?
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It's frustrating dying BEFORE D1 ENDS in a game like this
Town, y u no pick Priest?
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Dammit BC why did you have to babysit scum all over the role picking phase?
Should have made the information about the "character bonus" thing public (like "Gangster"="More KP stuff for role X Y and Z", etc)
I had no idea Gangster DIDNT have any synergy with Jack (considering it has 2 KP), or what synergy other roles had (like BM's for instance, which was the most important one)
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Nah don't worry MZ, you were the "least" dumb out of so many people
You were right about both Artanis and Shevlocke pretty early (unlike so many people, including me).
....you dun goofed with that nuke though
(you weren't that much of an impact in the game either which was such a shame. You could have been more active, or try to be more influential and shit and become the 4th Hero of the game )
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Also I would have liked your nuke being on scum on D1
In hindsight I should have shot artanis, then austin would be assassin and he could shoot someone D1 and either kill scum or confirm them, then MZ shooting another scum, Palmar emperoring another scum, and we lynching another scum
That would have been sweet
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I liked just how so many town reads I (and many others I assume) could get on those Draft/Rolepicking phases
For instance:
On April 05 2013 02:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Combine Vivax' + Geript's ideas and let these guys pick [1][1], [2][1], [3][1], [4][1], [5][1] (everyone else picks [6->] [X]):
raynpelikoneet
Geript
yamato
Mocsta
Sharrant
Argee or not? If not, why?
For all I was trying to be "wise" and shit....this seemed like the perfect plan to me and I would have gambled anything to set it or any similar plan through.
I had ZERO reasons for thinking any of those players were scum at the time, they were like confirmed town from then on.
Could you say the same in any other game....BEFORE DAY ONE STARTS? I don't think so
(I was sad nobody followed this plan though. It was pretty bitching in my mind, and you would have avoided scum being in top 5 like OO or VE)
Best pre-D1 ever in my mind
One of the things I learned in other games and it reinforces it here as town is: Your memory sucks
You may think someone is like confirmed town at some point in time, but time goes on, you start getting doubts and insecurities and you can't even remember why they were so fucking town in the first place.
I'm sure this is what happened with lots of townies in those last days, where you just look at some general plays and insecurities you have about certain players and go "yeah this guy can be scum kill him".
If you had the fresh memories of that player's play from D0, D1, N1, etc you wouldn't say the same thing.
It kind of sucks, and it certainly happened to me in previous games (in obs qt it happened to me as well, but there I didn't even read filters and didn't give a fuck so I'm justified )
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On April 18 2013 13:43 strongandbig wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2013 12:52 gonzaw wrote:Dammit BC why did you have to babysit scum all over the role picking phase? Should have made the information about the "character bonus" thing public (like "Gangster"="More KP stuff for role X Y and Z", etc) I had no idea Gangster DIDNT have any synergy with Jack (considering it has 2 KP), or what synergy other roles had (like BM's for instance, which was the most important one) yeah this was kind of ridiculous, scum had so much more information about the setup than town did... but it's a pyp game ->open setup :/
At the very least BC could have put the correct roles in the OP >_> <_<
(Assassin and Framer I'm looking at you)
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Yeah, you, rayn, and others obviously made that possible which was good play at that time
I didn't even post that much (was busy those days) but could easily read what you guys were doing, so good job.
Not only that, by doing what you did you basically lent me Artanis on a silver plate. By just skimming his posts about plans and your posts, or Mocsta's, or rayn's, or geript's, etc I (and others like MZ) could easily catch him just by comparison (and that was basically my whole case against him, or the most predominant part).
Hmm...I'm just going to conclude that BC babysitted scum so much and gave them so much info and changed roles/mechanics to be as anti-town as possible because he knew this scumteam didn't have a chance against us
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I should have just listened to sinani and shoot BM when he told me to
I was SO planning on doing that just for the lulz
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On April 19 2013 01:01 Keirathi wrote:
Also: No one actually took Assassin :o
Artanis took Godfather, whose Kingpin bonuse was the get the abilities of whatever role he chose to appear as.
wtf
so had a townie got Assassin and "denied" it from scum....Artanis would still have gotten it?
lol
@syllo: I agree that town shouldn't be given ALL the info EVER, but they SHOULD be given the exact guidelines of how the game works.
PYP has "set" standards and NEVER deviates from those. From the OP, the only thing different where the "extra benefits" thing from chars, nothing else.
I think that bit of information was not enough to change people's mind about how this game actually worked (i.e basically every role was different).
If not people WILL follow the guidelines from normal PYP games (why?.....because this is a PYP game) and then you'll end up with shitty speculation and cring-worthy posts and shit going on which is basically annoying as fuck.
In "normal" themed games that doesn't happen because everybody knows the guidelines from the get-go: "anything can happen in the game"
You don't change paradigms and shit like that. It'd be like changing roles mid-game in a Normal Mini Mafia or something.
Having a deceiving OP is also not cool :/
At the very least you can tell town: Not all roles in the OP are as they seem so they know what to expect/not to expect. I don't remember anything like that in there
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I would have shot you then veevy-boy!
(.....perhaps yes, perhaps not?......you don't know!....but I would have totally shot you if you weren't NRA member. I never shot you because I had already subconsciously figured out you were that role )
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No I wanted to shoot you because you were VE
I made that very clear in pre-game
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Gratz on the 9K
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lol
Well VE, not everybody can catch scum and solve the game in their milestone posts, so don't feel too bad
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Now I just have to spam 900 more posts before the next game starts so I can do the same thing!
It's actually very entertaining to do. It prevents me from spamming the hell out of the thread, and the count-down thing is very fun.
I wish I had a nuke though
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EPT
