EPTBoardwalk Empire Mafia: Pick Your Power
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geript
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So if we get say 3-4 townies who are supposed to pick say 1-4 in a specific order, is there any really good counterplan from scum other than trying to get scum in those positions? | ||
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The problem that I'm having with the current plan is that it even if you prevent the 5 super scum powers really what you're doing is giving them exactly which 'acceptable but not superpowered' roles they can choose freely. New plan: Instead of having a set 'draft list' in that say people drafting from 1-4 need to choose from a list of ABCD roles. People drafting from 5-8 need to draft from a list of EFGH, etc. etc. This makes it very risky for Scum to draft both outside of their own list and inside of their own list. | ||
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@All Would everyone be okay if I came up with a set of 5 pods of rolls and the pods to be selected from in specific picks? I'd expect some feedback and editing on them. | ||
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On April 05 2013 03:04 Keirathi wrote: I'll be completely honest and say I hate plans like this. The game is called Pick YOUR Power. Not Let Everyone Else Pick Your Power For You. For one, I just don't see everyone agreeing, and to me it just ruins the fun of the game type. Nothing prevents you from picking a completely different power though. That's the awesomeness of it. By having a specific plan of this sort, so long as even 50% of town goes by this sort of plan, then the plan can seriously fuck up scum. You STILL get to pick whatever oddball power that you want, but if a majority agree that it's a good plan it because exceptionally dangerous for scum to both follow and not follow. Why can't you as a strong player decide push this plan and try and get others to follow it? Can't you realize the merit it has? Or do you have an actual objection to the plan other than just "Me no likey?" | ||
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On April 05 2013 03:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: And why do you think all 3 ppl at the top won't pick the same role of those three if you don't want people to claim what did they pick? Having the top 3-5 have preset picks is both unfun and non-productive. It tells scum who to thieve/swap with. That's why the preset pick list is bad. It's exactly why my plan of pod picks is much, much better. It gives people freedom to choose while still providing strong uncertainty as to what exactly has been happening. | ||
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On April 05 2013 03:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: We can't control anyone. Denying "scum roles" in 1-> is stupid. So we disagree. Well, you're just wrong. Preventing scum from getting the obviously powerful scum roles is exceptionally bad for town. Especially with roles like Janitor. Shit can go bad exceptionally fast in that regard. Roles aren't that important for town. Town will be smart and lynch scum. It's going to happen. Preventing "bad shit" is just as important as being able to do "cool shit." | ||
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On April 05 2013 07:43 Sharrant wrote: What is the point of this post as a town member? I actually can't think of a reason to post this. Please enlighten me as to why this was stupid. This is an example of a misguided follow up. @Strongandbig why would you feel the need to call it stupid and not interject a non-worthless/non-stupid discussion for people to follow? | ||
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As for your posting, I really like it. | ||
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Important roles for Town to get. These should likely be tried to be drafted by the top 5-10 guys IMO: CPR Doctor Hooker Vote Rigger Inventor Roleswapper Thief Janitor This pod can be very useful to town or to prevent scum from getting. I'd take a serious look at these roles in the 5-15 draft range: Rock star Jailkeeper Hero Vigilante Assassin Russia Admiral Ackbar Bad Santa Politician Emperor Prince of Darkness Bloody Cobbler Showtime There are the roles that I would consider for 10-24. Lots of random stuff in here: Witch Veteran Role cop Bulletproof Methman NRA member Day Vigilante America Floridian JOAT CopyCat Priest Framer Role Breaker Moderator Everything else I would only really consider at the bottom of the draft order if you feel it's important to grab a role instead of information. At the end of the draft order I think that it's more important to actually try and draft from the top of the order to see if specific roles have been taken or not. | ||
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On April 05 2013 15:18 Mocsta wrote: Im not sure why I need to know you have me as town though? Nor why everyone else needs to know? I plan on finding 2-3 townies that I trust and look to sheep them for the first couple of days. I'm trying out a certain strategy a veteran suggested. You'll see my full plan once the day post actually rolls out. | ||
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@Artanis I think you are reading my first post wrong. You phrase it as: On April 05 2013 13:05 geript wrote: Hi, I think you're being townie, but you're not being you-townie, yet I still think you're townie but I'm not sure if you're townie. Oh and I think you're pretty townie. It's more of: On April 05 2013 13:05 geript wrote: Hi, I think you're being townie, but you're not being you-townie. Can you please confirm your 'you townieness'? As for the last phrase: On April 05 2013 13:05 geript wrote: As for your posting, I really like it. It was a direct response to: On April 05 2013 13:00 Mocsta wrote: This is really surprising to me. I thought I have made a good effort to consolidate my posts, and be meaningul? Which I talked with him behind the scenes during The Game about. It is not how you read it as, "I like what you've posted." As for the second point regarding investigation/protection roles, I think you're just projecting your values onto mine. I don't value investigation roles highly. In my experience they often come up biting someone in the ass or are used poorly. They also don't foster good town play IMO. I would much rather play for the 'block' and prevent scum from getting KP roles since their inherent KP is low in this game. As for protection roles, there are roles which can make such a huge disadvantage (including Hooker and Ackbar) and there's the added fact that you have to guess right. I'd much rather players counter draft and not use KP in order to extend the game than go for protection roles and hope to guess right as guessing right is much harder in a 20+ person game. I cannot fully explain why I think Mocsta is town from that post. It is more a gut read one which I trust rather implicitly. If you don't like it then feel free to pressure me just not at the exclusion of other players. As for the supposed scumslip, I would argue that most 'scum slips' are anything but. More often they are players trying to jump on a player for something that the feel is off. There is nothing wrong in what I said either. It is odd that a player who often puts himself at the forefront (VE) was so quiet in the pregame. As a sidenote, Mocsta is right. I don't deserve the 'kid gloves' that I received last game. I definitely used it to my advantage last game when I was scum. Since you aren't familiar with my meta, as town I tend to shove myself into the spotlight rather than avoid it. As to Mocsta's point about me taking a quote from VE from The Game to 'soft defend' a player then attack VE, it's irrelevant. I value many players' opinions about the game. I can spout many points from memory regarding various topics. The fact that VE made the point a good point last game then I pressured VE has no correlation. I am attempting to get the reads I feel capable of making at this point. Now for rereading... | ||
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On April 06 2013 10:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: And you acuse ME of convenient excuses. Hang. Huh. You both should hang.[/QUOTE] Care to explain? | ||
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On April 06 2013 12:41 Bill Murray wrote: geript why did you change your numbers? I never changed my numbers. I just wasn't serious about picking 1,1. | ||
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1. The townread/lynch stuff + Show Spoiler + On April 06 2013 09:42 VisceraEyes wrote: So RO wants to lynch inside [Caller, Palmar, Decon, VE, Kierathi, Artanis, austin, OO, Vivax, sn0] before D1 starts. That's cool I guess, but some of those names sound familiar. Where have I seen those names before? ... Oh that's right. In that OTHER post where he made a list and said "4/5 are townies", he wants to lynch 3/5 of them. This is the exact type of thing that we as scum would jump on. Any little thing that we could catch where town fucked up, changed reads, etc. It's perfect to attack because it seems so simple and plausible. Town in general are not going to be filtering themselves constantly to see their positions, know where they stood on exact people, etc. Whereas as scum, we were quite often referencing ourselves to see what stances were plausible for us to take. I can't wholly ignore the possibility that RO may just be lazy scum, hell he lurked most of LX until his teammate shot him. However, it's stupid to think that this early on that scum would make a slip this big. It's far more likely to be bad/stupid town. This isn't particularly scummy. 2. Posting a list of who picked what is non-alignment indicative. While one could argue that it's an easy way to appear to be contributing while doing nothing, it's ridiculous to say that he's scum because of it. 3. RO is a great opportunity for a mislynch. If you read the thread up to this point, VE isn't the first and likely won't be the last to suspect RO. IIRC Rayn, Gonzaw and someone else already expressed thoughts that they were suspicious of RO. He hasn't shown a great deal of activity. His posts haven't established him either way. This is an easy lynch to push just like the Greymist lynch was an easy one to push. 4. More on this later. 5. Look at this post: + Show Spoiler + On April 06 2013 00:56 VisceraEyes wrote: I just woke up and I have a fucking crazy idea. What if everyone who picks KP roles promises not to use them? I was looking at the role list and it seems that scum KP is fixed at 1? So it seems like scum will be focusing on trying to increase their KP (in a game this size). What if we all just don't use KP roles and lynch the fucking piss out of anyone who does? I mean obviously scum aren't going to claim if/when they do, but if we can get townies into the KP roles this would be a really good way to try and limit mafia KP. Does this post actually tell you anything? No. A few people had even espoused this point. The important thing to look at in this post is how many question marks there are. In my experience, VE is far more decisive. This looks like he's trying to blandly +1 but do so in such a minor way to both allow KP roles to use it (and lynch them for it) as well not dissuade anyone from actually firing. 6. + Show Spoiler + On April 06 2013 11:03 VisceraEyes wrote: Frankly rather than just be hard-defended Bill, I'd like to hear rayn's reasoning for thinking I'm scum. You know...so I can maybe get a read on rayn? Like, I appreciate the vote of confidence and everything, but I get the heebiejeebies when people hard defend me like they're already CERTAIN I'm town. :/ How ARE you certain I'm town by the way? This is an exceptionally soft push towards BM. Blazinghand pulled the exact same bullshit on "knowing" GoodKarma was town based on "meta" in The Game. Pulling that type of shit is suspicious at least. Artanis has been calling me out for similar things regarding Mocsta. VE decides to apply no pressure to BM at all and instead wants to pressure Rayn for thinking that VE's scum. What did VE do to SloOsh and Mocsta in Nomination Mafia? Flip their cases on him against them in order to either win them to his side and get them lynched. Same shit, new game. VE is SCUM | ||
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Are you new? Do you have weak reads? Are you not confident in your scum reads? Do I ever have the solution for you. Join the Scumhunters Assistants Team. Requirements: 1. For Days 1 and 2, 8-12 hours prior to each lynch you need to identify 2-3 people who you consider to be vets who you have a town read on. You need to give a few short reasons why you feel they are town. Additionally, you need to analyze who they've been pressuring and post who is your favorite (and second favorite) lynch and why. 2. For Days 1 and 2, you are expected to be sheeping one of your 2-3 vets that you have identified. There's nothing wrong with sheeping; hell, even DrHelvetica admitted to sheeping in the Beta podcast. The expectation is that you fulfill requirement 1 prior to sheeping however. 3. You need to not play to be a hero. Don't fire guns. Don't launch Nukes. Don't play to be a hero until LYLO/MYLO -1. Free reign then and not before. Odds of missing is too great. When you fire, you also need to be taking credit for said shot. 4. You are required to read dead townies filters. While some of it is WIFOM, it is important to read each dead player's filter to know who they suspected throughout the game and why. This is valuable information that will go to waste and can directly help determine who you should be lynching during the endgame if we get there. 5. You are to use your vote wisely. Think before you post and think before you vote. Your vote is your life, be willing to stake your life on it. 6. You still need to try to pressure players as best as you are capable. While you may not be asking the 'right' questions or applying pressure the best, you 'wading into' the thread with others will help other players establish both a read on you and on the people you are interacting with. 7. You need to try and produce at least a half page of filter per cycle. This will help other players get a better read on you. Don't post just to post. Anyone who is willing to hold themselves (and other members) accountable for said requirements will be pre-accepted. You only need to ##Join SAT With that, I'll take the lead. ##Join SAT | ||
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On April 06 2013 13:55 Keirathi wrote: Yo, broski. How do you know that RO is town? I don't know if he's town or not. I'm saying that from the looks of thread sentiment he looks like a great potential mislynch. On April 06 2013 13:52 ObviousOne wrote: ... not sure what to make of this but way to leave yourself open to accusations of a scum slip. Wow that's really bad looking. I played Scum in The Game. That was the clear reference. Have you not been paying attention? | ||
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On April 06 2013 14:05 ObviousOne wrote: I didn't read most of The Game (I did read some of it, first couple days I guess?) and I honestly don't care to at the moment, but I didn't call you scum for that, I just pointed out an opportunity you left open. That actually speaks well to you that you don't feel self-conscious about saying it. Please clarify the opportunity I left open. I'm not sure what you're saying here. | ||
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On April 07 2013 00:46 VisceraEyes wrote: In the meantime you could comment on my RO case Palmar. Or not,.because the game hasn't started yet. I don't care because I can't kill you one way or the other. Why are you avoiding me? | ||
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On April 07 2013 06:35 Ghor wrote: Can everyone put the numbers he sent to the hosts into his signature so I can rebuild the list without digging for needles in the haystack? There is no need for you to keep them secret if you are town. Stop this. The time for doing this is over. There is no reason to suspect people solely based off of the numbers they supposedly picked. Don't waste anyone's time with bull like that. | ||
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On April 07 2013 06:58 Vivax wrote: Took a look at VE's filter cause he seems to be under suspicion. Liked his case, sheeping it. On April 07 2013 07:08 Vivax wrote: A lot. I would say it contains irrefutable evidence of someone not believing what he claims to be thinking is best to believe. Multiple times you've said you liked the case and sheer +1'd it. You gave a minor rehash of the points recently, one which quite frankly missed a main point entirely. You've completely ignored any points against VE. You continue to try and distract people with this bullshit draft numbers even after people have pointed out that it's both bullshit AND after you admitted that in a previous game scum did exactly what you thought they wouldn't do. Quite frankly, this is looking exceptionally similar to Vivax in LX where you were smurf hunting. On April 07 2013 07:58 Vivax wrote: 2. Sno_Man, draft numbers please. You also have one of the best roles out there so it would be interesting to know: Is it KP-based or not (it likely is). Did you take a scumrole, a neutral or a townrole? Congratulations scum #3. | ||
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On April 07 2013 08:18 Vivax wrote: So you didn't deny a strong scum role since you say it's "good" and you didn't pick a survival role either cause you say you might die. What is it then? KP? I doubt it's investigative. If it's KP you have no reason to not share your role with town, it can also backfire. How is scum supposed to know your pick or assume it's strong? Don't answer him. He's just fishing for information. | ||
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As for S&B I'd like to hear his response, but I like your points about how he seems to find the draft/picking phase important but doesn't actually contribute anything to them at all. | ||
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On April 07 2013 15:11 Mocsta wrote: How much value are you giving him for being supposedly "high". Not any honestly. | ||
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On April 07 2013 15:28 Keirathi wrote: So go look at his filters from past games. Dismissing a meta read because you're too lazy to look at the meta yourself is just...wtfboggle. I did look at both games. I actually looked at NMM39 before you even brought him up. It's just that as of right now, I don't want to put too much faith in meta reads as I'm far more likely to look into the wrong things. I'm especially leery of using meta against a newer player as I don't think that meta transfers over games as well with newer players. On April 07 2013 15:28 Keirathi wrote: And my point wasn't that he was just pushing a plan to get himself high in the draft order. Yes, a townie could do that too. What I don't think a townie would do is specifically say that one plan was undeniably the best plan for town, the immediately flip flop on it and say that its a bad plan now, just because a new plan came up that benefits himself more. He's putting himself above the town as a whole; suddenly and for not much reason. (Which I also contend is completely different from what town rayn just did last game.) I agree that he's playing different from RED. I could see the failure to follow through on a plan in the role picking segment (once order was released) as being more related to how in general some people started to throw out accusations and head more towards scum hunting. As for dropping the "Geript Pod Plan" I don't have a good answer for that right now. I think it got shut out by various conversations and I want to go back and read that section more. On April 07 2013 15:22 Mocsta wrote: So if that is the case, im not following your prior comment. Yes, town and scum both want the top pick. But do you expect town to go on a big spiel about plans; and then cease to contribute once the goal is achieved? I think most of the plans weren't really terribly discussed but I need to go back and reread that whole section again. Will give a more firm answer in a bit. | ||
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On April 05 2013 10:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: 4 scum. RO, Oats, MZ, Caller :D On April 05 2013 11:51 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I initially had a pretty bad feeling about oats, however he's just been too loud for me to think he's scum at this point. I'm rather suspicious of artanis, I actually wanted an opinion on sharrant because I have him as a complete null, and decondou was a red herring which I threw out on a whim. In hindsight you'd be too smart to go for it as scum anyway  currently I have rayn as probable town since I've learned that the most annoying people tend to be town. That being said, I also really don't think RO is scummy. Also for the record, I'm not trying to force a wise man to do my bidding, just wanna check in with someone who completely played me before :D On April 05 2013 11:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Oats is bad town or scum. Artanis is .. hmm.. idk.. sharrant almost definitely town. deconduo, leaning on scum at him. RO = scum. kill him <3 This feels like an exceptionally odd interaction. Caller he later on takes time to call town for no reason. But Rayn never shows another opinion on MZ even commenting on a change. As a matter of fact the last real opinion I saw on MZ was: On April 05 2013 12:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: M_Z: He is non- committal, that makes me think he might be scum. What I find so odd about this interaction is that Rayn apparently continues to think MZ is scum but his post going over MZ's reads don't convey that at all. He doesn't even actually interact with him, put any pressure on him or try and engage MZ's reads. I don't see MZ as being terribly committal on his reads yet Rayn doesn't follow up on that at all. He just seems to be bouncing towards whatever the present case is on as said case comes up. I do find it interesting that Rayn doesn't give an opinion at all on Artanis especially after reading Gonzaw's case. ##vote Rayn VE what are you opinions of the cases on Rayn and Artanis? | ||
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On April 07 2013 16:42 gonzaw wrote: Geript, can you comment on my case please? I can't see how the stuff brought against rayn is any stronger than what I've posted about Artanis, and it seems you've read my case I don't wholly buy into the hiding in the setup stuff. It could likely be said of a few people. I even got my idea of draft pods partially from his RNG idea. I think your most damning point in the first part is that he neither tries to push why his ideas are good or better especially when his plan only works for 1-3 roles. It just seems far, far more questionable that he's just trying to throw out an idea without any reasoning behind it and doesn't care to assert himself. But I don't know anything about Artanis so that might be typical for him; it does seem odd that he was so carefree about setup and so hard to try and push me. I could see that as being related to that due to Draft phase being Day -1, Post draft being Day 0 and the extended foreplay really being done. As for complaining, in my experience complaining players are perhaps slightly more likely to be scum, but I wouldn't put it past 55%-45%. I get that those posts say mostly nothing, but I could see something like this come from busy/disinterested town. My distinct impression of the Artanis case when he posted it was a few things: First, Is this some sort of Chainsaw? Second, this seems like an odd set of things to be pointing out. Third, initially it feels like a case that came from town not scum (but this is completely a gut read). It does somewhat remind me of things that we'd look for last game as scum, but I have a hard time taking that seriously. I doubt it was ever meant as an actual case; it's either to discredit pressure on Keirathi at the time or discredit me attacking VE or just to appear active. The odder thing about the case IMO is that I actually thought these points + Show Spoiler + On April 06 2013 09:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Asking people whether you can sheep them isn't exactly the height of taking responsibility. Antagonizing people that refuse to play along with your plan because they want to approach the game in a different way, single line comments about players you find suspicious then asking other people what they think about them rather than fleshing out your own opinion, all the while focussing on your own plan. I'd rather you reply to the mini case I made though as it contains the stronger points. The sixth point I think is actually the most damning. That is essentially how I slid through the last game. Granted this point is moot if you're scum. Overall the case isn't bad, I prefer the Rayn case. I want to get some sleep before I reread everything tomorrow. | ||
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On April 07 2013 04:50 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh cool, and you want to out my role to the thread. Neat. Seriously fuck this game. Lead me to believe that he chose it. Now, there is nothing alignment indicative of VE choosing NRA member, but having proceeded to do nothing to come across as townie in the least made me extra suspicious. NRA member is a role that's exceptionally dangerous in scum hands because it prevents Investigations and Vigilante shots AND kills the offending player. As town, it could be exceptionally good as it can prevent opposing targetted KP (except as I read it the 1 per night scum KP). Considering VE's actions to not try in the slightest, I have to warn you guys about aiming towards him. More importantly, it leads to actively trying to draw investigations and town KP his direction in order to gain faux KP. When you add VE's general disinterest with this motivation the only conclusion I can come to is him being scum. ##vote VE | ||
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I first considering VE going for NRA when I reread his filter from this post: On April 05 2013 11:55 VisceraEyes wrote:Now, I fully did NOT expect to be so high in the draft. As a result, I'm ill-prepared. On the one hand, I promised myself that if I was in the top 10 I'd try for a specific role. On the other hand, being SO high up makes me a good counter-picking candidate. However considering my low thread presence this game, I can understand reservations with this. Of the top 5, I didn't think that either Rayn or Sno would take NRA member. I can't rule it out but it would seem exceptionally odd. I imagine that OO would take something else. The two who I could realistically see taking it are Sinani and VE. For me, VE confirmed it with this exchange: On April 07 2013 04:40 geript wrote: VE I know you picked out of fear. Why? On April 07 2013 04:47 VisceraEyes wrote: What are you referring to? On April 07 2013 04:50 geript wrote: Your role. On April 07 2013 04:50 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh cool, and you want to out my role to the thread. Neat. Seriously fuck this game. He acknowledges that in a sense that I both know his role and that he picked his role out of fear. That leads primarily to VE being the NRA member. Even Gonzaw agreed with me. QUOTE]On April 08 2013 12:13 gonzaw wrote: There's a chance Sno or sinani took NRA member... ....goddamn now I feel so much better for not shooting either of them yet :/ The NRA member out of them and VE could claim, although it does seem it's likely VE. For anyone at 1-5 place taking NRA member....it's weird as fuck if they are town. At that stage you wouldn't take NRA member I think. Oh well, geript did, but geript tried to be townie so it makes sense (neither sinani/Sno/VE tried to be townie, and I'd say OO and rayn don't seem to me like they'd take NRA member either if they are town). [/QUOTE] Think with your head. You're being stupid Moc. This was not a kill to since Gonzaw from continuing on the Artanis train. I have a strong feeling like Artanis is town, I need to reread the cases and points again and his responses, but this kill has nothing to implicate Artanis. Right now, I need to reread and reevaluate my reads. | ||
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On April 08 2013 13:23 yamato77 wrote: 1) You don't know when the shot was sent. This point is very valid, we don't know the exact timing of the knifing (it was assassin which uses knives), but it's pretty safe to assume that it was relatively recent. So perhaps it doesn't implicate Artanis or VE as much as thought and is just a 'freebie kill.' If that's the case then why not go for the freebie kill on me? Killing me directly implicates VE as a safe lynch and if VE is town, then it's absolutely amazing for scum as they both don't have to waste night KP on him and they remove a great analyst. Perhaps they want to remove the better player. I still think the kill makes it far more likely that VE is scum than Artanis. | ||
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On April 08 2013 20:53 Caller wrote: stop goznaw got shot to me logical explanation is simple: artanis is a day vig and from the looks of things is going to be lynched, but he wanted to use his power before he died. That's it. artanis claims before we lynch him. that's all that needs to be done. Artanis, claim. No. That's just dumb. We need to be lynching VE. No reason for him to claim if we are going to lynch him. The sheer level of stupidity in this post is beyond me. | ||
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On April 09 2013 02:36 Sn0_Man wrote: @geript why did you choose NRA? Because I firmly intended to 'hate draft' a role. I wasn't sure if I wanted to go after CPR Doctor, Janitor, Hooker or Vote Rigger. I assumed that at least 2 of those would be picked before me and I didn't trust myself to not use CPR Doctor or Hooker. I felt like I had established my townieness sufficiently so would be an unlikely investigation target from town and am not a person who I expected would be a target of being protected. Thus NRA being a role I initially downgraded seemed far better. | ||
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Visceraeyes (8): Vivax (0): Restraining Order (0): Keirathi (0): strongandbig (2): Bill Murray, Palmar (0): Shelvocke (2): austinmcc, deconduo, raynpelikoneet (0): Artanis[xp] (5): gonzaw, deconduo (1): Visceraeyes ObviousOne (2): Caller, Sharrant Sno_man (1): Vivax Sinani206 (2): Caller (0): Kurumi I think your vote count is off. Could you double check it please as I think mine is correct? | ||
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On April 09 2013 04:16 Caller wrote: Visceraeyes: geript, Mocsta, raynpelikoneet, Oatsmaster, strongandbig, Artanis[xp], Restraining Order, Shelvocke might be a good place to start I don't think that this is a terrible suggestion either oddly. I definitely need to reevaluate these reads. | ||
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Right, Emperor. Duh. I should probably think more. Removing Caller from that list is a good idea. | ||
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1. Would the town be informed of a double lynch when the Emperor uses his power? 2. Is the vote count Kurumi provided correct in that Caller was given 2 votes? | ||
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On April 09 2013 04:47 yamato77 wrote: Look at how Shelvocke came in and unvoted Artanis Does that seem natural to you as a town player? U scum bro? | ||
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##FOS austinmcc | ||
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On April 09 2013 05:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why do you think there are a lot of mafia in VE voters? I can't see it. Why would scum push a counter wagon on another scum? Bussing 1 obvious scum to save a non-obvious one isn't bad strategy. I outed VE's role in thread. I also thought Artanis was town (shame on me). Added to his lack of activity, I would absolutely bus VE in that situation too. | ||
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On April 09 2013 05:25 Palmar wrote: Caller is the hero this town needs.  Why you give me no credit? | ||
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On April 09 2013 05:31 Palmar wrote: also shame on the people who were going to back off artanis when gonzaw was shot for calling him scum. Why you hate on newbie who correctly called out VE's role and him as scum. I am disappoint. | ||
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On March 11 2013 11:12 austinmcc wrote: snb, three things what are those BHs in the Foolishness pic holding? wbg's posts may ramble, but they rambled while making townie points (at times). Read his post about how rats work. It's not the most insightful thing ever, but it gave me a strong townie vibe on him, because he was still playing mafia while filling the thread with nonsense (unlike crossfire). oats does look bad. I like the point on reads more than the point on not following his own advice, especially within a game where everyone is playing as someone else. For starts, you look at the iamperfection/mocsta pushes from oats, but you miss this:Oats still pushing iamp, before you post, in response to iamp finding hiro scummy based on hiro's wanting claims. Specifically, iamp made a case, and oats immediately jumps all over iamp. I dislike that, because he's not actually seeking discussion on those questions, he starts off with the all caps LYNCH IAMP, which makes it feel like the questions don't matter. He just wants to lynch iamp, for...making a case and scumhunting. There's also his posts on ver. Check these out:Ver's entrance is "unimpressive" and he has no posts after. Reads like Oats finds this scummy But now acro finds Ver scummy for the same post, and Oats thinks it's a horrible reason for a vote. Acro responds, and Oats downplays Ver's post. Ver has a whopping one post. And yet Oats still manages to have 3 different thoughts about it. Weird interaction, and weirdly inconsistent. + Show Spoiler + On April 08 2013 04:12 austinmcc wrote: Was waiting on your response, wanted to see if you picked up on something. I disagree with your ultimate setup discussion conclusion.
We are both wordy, but I don't see the complaints as much and I don't see the need for them to warrant much comment. At the END of your complaint section, I do like you mentioning "cramming all sorts of things into a single post." I have not known scum to do that, tbh, but I can't really fight your conclusion there because I don't have a ledger of all the crammed-together posts and whether they came from scum to town. I know that, when I'm town, I often try to avoid commenting on some things, try to push a few small lines of thought and not get tripped up, but that may be because of my inexperience and it might not be a normal scum thought process. Whatever. Still got nothing pointing me to scumtanis from your case. The geript case is poopy as I look back over it. It's either just not something I agree with or slightly scummy, but it's friggin pregame and early. You've also noted that you were watching artanis before he made this post. That makes it seem like you may be playing up the geript case as an indicator of scumtanis, because you were already scummy on artanis, and I dislike that. Just...I agree that artanis's geript case is not strong like ox, but I'm still not over to scummy on him (this is running commentary on just your case, if I'm taking each point and seeing how it sways me). The backing off point is the first thing that I can see in a scummy light. The weaker the case, the easier to back off, but yeah, he's put a lot of effort into this and he backs off with the not liking your posts comment. I've done that myself as town, when I start to realize a scumread is feeling more town, you've looked at these posts as scummy for a while and it's hard to undo that even once you find someone to be townie, but I can also see the scum point of view there. I will agree that it's a half-assed way to back off. ***EVERYONE IGNORING ARTANIS*** This is why I asked you about Shelvocke. You know who's been ignored? Shelvocke. You know who Meapak ALSO commented on, then I commented on and voted, but has had basically NO discussion today about him? Shelvocke. I wanted to see if you picked up on that, because I read your point here and immediately went "Agree that this can indicate scum" and then "Oh right, this also applies to Shelvocke." Overall, I like the ignoring point and think it CAN point towards scum. The backing off point is fine, and I think it CAN point to scum. Some of the points I'm meh on, and the RNG setup discussion in the beginning is something I find townie. If I just filter Artanis away from your specific points, I see a couple things: His aggression is all confined to like...an hour and a half of activity following his geript case/vote/post. He's gone for 11 hours or whatever, comes back, first thing he does is apparently re-read Geript, what has happened in relation to Geript in the meantime, and respond that he is reconsidering. I actually REALLY like that response. If Artanis is scum I don't see reason for the return to thread to be anything other than pushing a little more, creating a little more chaos, something, rather than just dropping your read. We're not even in the voting phase yet, there's no REAL reason to be changing your reads around if mafia, you're still just sort of dicking around, chatting in scum QT, whatever, and reading through your scumread's response to your stuff, changing your mind, and having that be the FIRST thing you do on return to the thread feels town to me. Thoughts on that? There is my response. I don't want to lynch Artanis. I DO want to chat a little more about Shelvocke, especially with regard to the lack of commentary/votes/whatnot on him and your finding that scummy about Artanis. Anyone see any similarities here? austinmcc is more than willing to defend a scum buddy by going on offense. I don't think he would've attacked me considering how my thread sentiment had me painted as confirmed town. | ||
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On April 09 2013 00:56 austinmcc wrote: I like to have fun. In all honesty, I'm considering VE. I still believe shelvocke to be mafia, and I like that lynch a lot. Much of the case on VE is that he hasn't been doing anything, which is NOT something that I expect from mafia-VE, honestly. However, it's not something that I expect from town-VE, especially if geript is telling the truth and SOMEONE up at the top is an NRA member (I agree with the sentiment that if someone at the top took that role, it's likely VE OR shelvocke (again, shelvocke is pretty clearly a smurf and people seem to be overlooking that)). Any reason in particular why I should lynch VE over shelvocke? This post looks to me exactly like: I want to try and get a Shelvocke mislynch, but to not out myself as I feel VE is dead regardless I don't want to close the door on me being able to vote for him to not look scummy. It essentially says "Well if we can believe geript then VE likely took NRA and that makes him scum OR Shelvocke who drafted 16th took it and Shelvocke is a smurf so he should be given more attention." | ||
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On April 09 2013 05:51 Sn0_Man wrote: VE and Artanis could have been "Cupided" together. Super-duper unlikely but possible. Seriously stop this. Following up on all of the possibilities is mostly worthless. Go scumhunt. | ||
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On April 09 2013 08:04 Palmar wrote: what now? #winner | ||
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DISMUDDAFUKKAISLYINGLYNCHHIMNAOH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
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On April 08 2013 11:54 geript wrote: Okay, I'm tired of VE being absent. I picked NRA member and was denied. That means that one of Sno, Rayn, Sinani, OO or VE chose it before I got it. I can't be certain that VE chose it but his response here: Lead me to believe that he chose it. Now, there is nothing alignment indicative of VE choosing NRA member, but having proceeded to do nothing to come across as townie in the least made me extra suspicious. NRA member is a role that's exceptionally dangerous in scum hands because it prevents Investigations and Vigilante shots AND kills the offending player. As town, it could be exceptionally good as it can prevent opposing targetted KP (except as I read it the 1 per night scum KP). Considering VE's actions to not try in the slightest, I have to warn you guys about aiming towards him. More importantly, it leads to actively trying to draw investigations and town KP his direction in order to gain faux KP. When you add VE's general disinterest with this motivation the only conclusion I can come to is him being scum. ##vote VE On April 08 2013 22:40 Palmar wrote: Alright people, I'm going to contribute so you don't think I'm scum. Sn0_man obviousone Raynpelikoneet Sinani206 Visceraeyes One of these people is the NRA, assuming geript's claim is true. Let's look at who wants to pick NRA. a) Mafia who wants to avoid townies going after him b) Townies who thinks mafia is going to go after him. I'll be perfectly honest here, I thought about picking NRA. The reason being I'm shot night 1 very often when I'm town. It's as simple as that, it's the best self-protective role in the game. Now the reason (aside from my position in the draft) I actually did not decide to go for the role was that I wasn't going to be posting the amount or content required to clearly paint myself town. It would actually be an anti-town role if I took it, because of the possibility that someone unsure of my alignment would decide to check me or something. So, we can safely assume that the person who has the NRA role either thinks he's doing a splendid job of looking so townie that mafia wants to shoot him and town does not want to do anything to him, or he's scum. My problem is that none of these top 5 players look like they're putting in the effort to be a town-sided NRA, so I am almost certain that whoever picked the NRA role must be scum. Assassin is another role I really wanted, but meh. Here's the thing, whoever holds the assassin role is almost certainly scum. The reason for this is that if I had the role I would DEFINITELY shoot on day 1. Worst case scenario is that I shoot a townie who doesn't die and gets mod-confirmed town, it also looks great for me since mafia assassin would almost certainly never pull that powerplay. so yeah, shooting day 1 worst case = 1 confirmed townie and a very likely townie in the assassin. Lose power best case scenario = kill scum So why not? Because our assassin (assuming someone took the role) is scum. On April 09 2013 10:11 Palmar wrote: it was so simple. I proved nra and assman were both scum. so we kill nra and assman, and whaddayaknow? I was correct. man I should get a medal for this game. mvp. Not so much. I proved why NRA was scum AND I told you who it was AND why it was that person. You can get in line behind me | ||
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On April 09 2013 12:59 Keirathi wrote: Pretty sure neither one of you are mafia. Not as sure on yamato, but pretty sure both are just have a little townie squable. | ||
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Raynpelikoneet strongandbig Vivax Bill Murray deconduo yamato77 austinmcc Keirathi Meatpack_Ziphh Obvious One Caller Sharrant Sn0_man Of those, I feel reasonably safe removing yamato, Keirathi and Caller. That's still 10 candidates. | ||
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On April 05 2013 22:50 Restraining Order wrote: This is roughly where it stands, I didn't dig through to get all the second numbers for the 8's and 11's, but those don't matter that much. Sn0_man - 1, 1? could theoretically also be 2 or 3 I guess, but no reason to disbelieve it. obviousone - 234? Raynpelikoneet - 5, 1 Sinani206 - 7, 2 Visceraeyes - 10, 10 strongandbig - 234? same first as caller Caller - 234? same first as snb, larger second restraining order - 6, 2 Meapak_ziphh - 6, 3+ Austinmcc - 8 Shelvocke - 8 Deconduo - 8 Vivax - 8, 1 artanis[xp] - 11 sharrant - 11 billmurray - either 8 or didn't send Yamato77 - not sent, tried 11 VE doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would allow his team to put in all of the same # nor would recommend it. Having better roles is obviously good. I'm betting that Artanis was the lowest bid on the scum team at or around 11. I also think that scum spread their first numbers out to maximize higher picks. This gives us a scum suspect list of: Sno_Man, Obvious One, Raynpelikoneet, Sinani206, strongandbig, Caller, Restraining Order Meatpak_Ziphh, Austin MCC, Shelvocke, Deconduo, Vivax. I'm going to bet that there are exactly two scum in in the 6-8 range: Sinani206, Restraining Order Meatpak_Ziphh, Austin MCC, Shelvocke, Deconduo, Vivax. I think Austinmcc and Deconduo are the two standouts here in my mind. Meatpak_Ziphh I need to look at again. I'm also going to be that there are exactly two scum in the 1-5 range: Sno_Man, Obvious One, Raynpelikoneet, strongandbig, Caller. This group is a little harder to guess despite being smaller. There is an outside possibility that Bill Murray and Yamato are scum but I feel it's unlikely. | ||
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On April 10 2013 10:25 yamato77 wrote: If I die, kill Mocsta tomorrow. If I don't, I will kill him tomorrow. Wanna give any reasons? | ||
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On April 10 2013 11:11 deconduo wrote: I hope you didn't, but if its true just a heads up. I'm the janitor and now I can't tell you what the flips were. I'm willing to lynch you just for saying you used janitor. | ||
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On April 10 2013 11:17 deconduo wrote: Eh its actually quite good cost I get to know the flips and Mafia doesn't. I planned to use it to fuck with them and see if I could get them to slip. However seeing as mocsta might have been dumb enough to shot me I figured claiming now is more important. Lol u ded bro | ||
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I don't think it's likely that you're right and I think you're likely wrong, but I wouldn't remove it from the possibilities. | ||
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On April 10 2013 12:37 sinani206 wrote: what's the point of making a case on him tomorrow if you want to lynch him today? As in 24 hours not D3. | ||
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On April 10 2013 12:41 Bill Murray wrote: i KNOW Caller was scum... and I Can thank Geript... I looked up the Emperor role, and I thought something was a little different with MY role, but unless some weird string of events happened Caller was 100% scum You are going to have to explain this. My only thoughts of him as scum were based on commentary on him from the beta cast how he is not egocentric and does his shit regardless of what other people want. Plus his thread disruption; no hard evidence. | ||
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On April 07 2013 18:50 Palmar wrote: I have a plan but none of the hosts have seen fit to answer my questions about 2 roles in the game and their mechanics. I think he picked up on my suspicion and role (or lack thereof) early due to my posts around the initial D1 phase stuff. | ||
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On April 10 2013 13:05 Bill Murray wrote: i cant think of any other likely scenarios at this point, geript i can't even stay away from the thread, i'm so excited That isn't a valid reason at all. I want actual explanation for why you can't imagine any other scenarios. You're going to have to walk me through it. | ||
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On April 10 2013 13:08 Mocsta wrote: Geript did u get anything from rayn? Ididnt Might have gotten framed to Keirathi... idk. | ||
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On April 10 2013 13:29 yamato77 wrote: I'll be in the thread with my cases when this shitstorm blows over tomorrow. I doubt it'll have blown over by then. | ||
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On April 10 2013 13:35 Bill Murray wrote: I don't like the was sn0 talked to me I would easily move my vote to someone like Sharrant or RO (I feel RO is much more likely to have bussed Artanis) with his I don't give a poop attitude. You sir, need to get back to explaining your full thought process behind Caller being scum. | ||
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On April 10 2013 18:42 Bill Murray wrote: i doubt im going to kill anyone tonight unless we get some confirmation - too needle in a haystacky. don't want to hit town. Why don't you just flat out say you're justice vig one way or another. That way we can actually evaluate or claim or just lynch you. Right now, I'm considering everything you say as a BM... not bill murray a bowel movement. So either start sharing your thought processes with class or I'm going to lead a lynch on you because you're nothing but disruptive. | ||
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On April 10 2013 19:25 Bill Murray wrote: where for art thou geript? If I had a gun, I'd shoot you. | ||
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Not bieving til you post logs. | ||
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On April 11 2013 02:05 austinmcc wrote: Do explain. You're voting the guy nuking me AND the guy I'm more-than-hinting I checked last night and got a town result. I see no reason to believe your claim. | ||
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Not sure what I think of your claim honestly | ||
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On April 11 2013 04:46 Restraining Order wrote: Yes it is. Well since you're so sure he's town, then I'll just go ahead and vote for you instead. | ||
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On April 11 2013 08:39 Sn0_Man wrote: Pretty sure SnB's invention post means nothing. Anybody else getting... unhelpful vibes from geript? At this point he feels like he wants to make it hard for town to see the situation clearly.n Please oh please make a case against me. I could use a good laugh. | ||
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I'm not quite sure what I think of you honestly. I've been lazy and haven't read your filter. I'm leaning town on you for right now unless we get another investigatory claim. | ||
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On April 11 2013 10:06 Sn0_Man wrote: Why? I'll give you a reason why not: lynches are towns power. The more lynches town has, the better chance at victory. Night is scum's power. The longer the game goes the more inevitable it is in scum favour. You are so scummy geript It's obvious that no one is putting in the work to town hunt. There's no agreed policy lynches. There's also no flip for whoever dies at lynch. No reason to deny town more information. A second lynch looks almost assured to be a mislynch at this point no reason to shoot ourselves in the foot any further. | ||
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On April 11 2013 10:14 strongandbig wrote: What? Why does this make sense? Anyway I agree with the way the claim is proceeding, vivax you should go ahead and claim. Also someone should keep track of the claims we have bad so far, for example I think oats was earlier on the list but I'm not sure what he claimed. SnB isn't scum because scum clearly spread their numbers out. Caller had to be on the same number. Vivax should be on the 'carpet bombing list.' | ||
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On April 05 2013 22:50 Restraining Order wrote: This is roughly where it stands, I didn't dig through to get all the second numbers for the 8's and 11's, but those don't matter that much. Sn0_man - 1, 1? could theoretically also be 2 or 3 I guess, but no reason to disbelieve it. obviousone - 234? Raynpelikoneet - 5, 1 Sinani206 - 7, 2 Visceraeyes - 10, 10 strongandbig - 234? same first as caller Caller - 234? same first as snb, larger second restraining order - 6, 2 Meapak_ziphh - 6, 3+ Austinmcc - 8 Shelvocke - 8 Deconduo - 8 Vivax - 8, 1 artanis[xp] - 11 sharrant - 11 billmurray - either 8 or didn't send Yamato77 - not sent, tried 11 | ||
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On April 11 2013 10:37 austinmcc wrote: Nope. This is not the question. Knock it off. If you want to build a case on sn0, go do it. Co-opt my case. Whatever. But, despite him being a big scumread of mine yesterday, I'm pretty much convinced he's town today. You can assume that some sort of terrible nasty plan is in motion here, but I'm pretty damn paranoid and I have reason to believe that there is, in fact, NOT some sort of terrible nasty plan in motion as regards sn0_man. Sorry, look elsewhere. You think I'm scumthen? If not then you should've told him to quit being dumb townie first then as I'm obv town | ||
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RO/MZ Mocsta Vivax I see no reason to trust the investigations b/c of the GF addon flip. So I would add: Sn0 Sinani | ||
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On April 11 2013 11:11 yamato77 wrote: I still kinda want to kill sinani just to confirm this check. I highly doubt the flip will be seen. Better to force Moc to spend bullet #2. | ||
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Don't need to. | ||
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Town Vivax = crazy, invested, doesn't care how he posts, doesn't give up random stupid ideas lightly and has lots of random stupid ideas Scum Vivax = semi sane, lazy, drops crazy ideas, tries to look normal Vivax not reading = lazy Vivax proposing different lynch # picks to look active and drops it when blasted about it = scum Vivax not showboating about being right on lynch # pick idea = scum Vivax trying to make sense = scum Sn0 calling Vivax worst mislynch ever = protecting scum buddy GG town. Sheep Geript ftw | ||
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On April 11 2013 12:18 strongandbig wrote: Geript what's this thing you have with snoman? Dudes got a green check on him you ca t just ignore it like that and keep being like "kill Jim lol" He's totes not town. Green check is irrelevant. Lots of possible answers for that. | ||
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On April 11 2013 12:51 yamato77 wrote: I do like geript's analysis of Vivax' meta, to an extent. If people are really opposed to killing sinani because of this check, Vivax is a good substitute. M_Z is non-negotiable. I don't care how much these idiots believe in their reads. Yoyomato plz tell me when Sn0 got invested in Nmm38. I'll give you a hint read day 3 when his scum buddy was heavy on the block. Then read his other games... Tell me when he got invested... You kno bc it was way before then. Kthnxbai | ||
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On April 11 2013 13:03 Mocsta wrote: I hope this is just poor analysis and not intentially false. I cohosted that game Sno subbed in day3 So yeah. Ironic u say he became invested in the thread day 3 Damn you're right I was thinking D2. Fuck. | ||
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On April 11 2013 15:00 Oatsmaster wrote: ##Unvote: Sinani ##Vote: OO Lol Anyone who wants to lynch me, why in the WORLD would I choose recruiting mason as scum? It basically wastes a pick/multiple KP to look like confirmed town. Good trade? no. You drafted 3rd from last. I'm not discounting it. | ||
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On April 06 2013 12:04 geript wrote: VE I want to say that I am far more suspicious of you right now. Care to explain yourself in a way that I can understand you and no one else can? On April 06 2013 12:39 geript wrote: I have to sleep soon, in case day strikes before I'm able to get back and weird shit happens, please take a very strong look at those in the top 5, specifically VE. On April 06 2013 13:37 geript wrote: I figured out why I don't like the case on RestrainingOrder at all. In The Game, I got to watch both Bugs and Kita push absolute bullshit towards town's direct. It was well crafted bullshit, but bullshit none the less. VE's case is an exact example of this type of thing for a few reasons: 1. The townread/lynch stuff + Show Spoiler + On April 06 2013 09:42 VisceraEyes wrote: So RO wants to lynch inside [Caller, Palmar, Decon, VE, Kierathi, Artanis, austin, OO, Vivax, sn0] before D1 starts. That's cool I guess, but some of those names sound familiar. Where have I seen those names before? ... Oh that's right. In that OTHER post where he made a list and said "4/5 are townies", he wants to lynch 3/5 of them. This is the exact type of thing that we as scum would jump on. Any little thing that we could catch where town fucked up, changed reads, etc. It's perfect to attack because it seems so simple and plausible. Town in general are not going to be filtering themselves constantly to see their positions, know where they stood on exact people, etc. Whereas as scum, we were quite often referencing ourselves to see what stances were plausible for us to take. I can't wholly ignore the possibility that RO may just be lazy scum, hell he lurked most of LX until his teammate shot him. However, it's stupid to think that this early on that scum would make a slip this big. It's far more likely to be bad/stupid town. This isn't particularly scummy. 2. Posting a list of who picked what is non-alignment indicative. While one could argue that it's an easy way to appear to be contributing while doing nothing, it's ridiculous to say that he's scum because of it. 3. RO is a great opportunity for a mislynch. If you read the thread up to this point, VE isn't the first and likely won't be the last to suspect RO. IIRC Rayn, Gonzaw and someone else already expressed thoughts that they were suspicious of RO. He hasn't shown a great deal of activity. His posts haven't established him either way. This is an easy lynch to push just like the Greymist lynch was an easy one to push. 4. More on this later. 5. Look at this post: + Show Spoiler + On April 06 2013 00:56 VisceraEyes wrote: I just woke up and I have a fucking crazy idea. What if everyone who picks KP roles promises not to use them? I was looking at the role list and it seems that scum KP is fixed at 1? So it seems like scum will be focusing on trying to increase their KP (in a game this size). What if we all just don't use KP roles and lynch the fucking piss out of anyone who does? I mean obviously scum aren't going to claim if/when they do, but if we can get townies into the KP roles this would be a really good way to try and limit mafia KP. Does this post actually tell you anything? No. A few people had even espoused this point. The important thing to look at in this post is how many question marks there are. In my experience, VE is far more decisive. This looks like he's trying to blandly +1 but do so in such a minor way to both allow KP roles to use it (and lynch them for it) as well not dissuade anyone from actually firing. 6. + Show Spoiler + On April 06 2013 11:03 VisceraEyes wrote: Frankly rather than just be hard-defended Bill, I'd like to hear rayn's reasoning for thinking I'm scum. You know...so I can maybe get a read on rayn? Like, I appreciate the vote of confidence and everything, but I get the heebiejeebies when people hard defend me like they're already CERTAIN I'm town. :/ How ARE you certain I'm town by the way? This is an exceptionally soft push towards BM. Blazinghand pulled the exact same bullshit on "knowing" GoodKarma was town based on "meta" in The Game. Pulling that type of shit is suspicious at least. Artanis has been calling me out for similar things regarding Mocsta. VE decides to apply no pressure to BM at all and instead wants to pressure Rayn for thinking that VE's scum. What did VE do to SloOsh and Mocsta in Nomination Mafia? Flip their cases on him against them in order to either win them to his side and get them lynched. Same shit, new game. VE is SCUM I was tunneled on VE WAAAAAY before it was cool. I even tried to figure out a way to get VE to explain himself in case he happened to be town and I was tunneled on him for no reason. I also wanted to make a post in case I got shot early for whatever weird reason telling you guys where to look. I even asked VE about his role directly before the Artanis case came out IIRC. Really if you look at the 3rd and 4th page of my filter you see that I was pretty well set on getting an explanation from VE in the least. Sure the 'timing' of the role bust may seem convenient to you, but it should be blatantly obvious that I'm town by this point (even if I am being mostly lazy right now). How you guys can't see that my town meta is me being a bull in a china shop and my scum meta is the complete opposite is completely beyond me. | ||
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On April 12 2013 01:48 Oatsmaster wrote: shoot dudes austin. I am in favor of shooting dudes. Because if you are scum, you wont sit on your shot anyway. Start shooting with that guy if you do shoot. | ||
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Just because we have KP, doesn't mean we should use it. Trigger happy dumbasses deserve to die. | ||
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On April 12 2013 01:52 Sn0_Man wrote: Every time geript opens his mouth, he espouses more scum-motivated plots. HE DIES AT THE END OF THE DAY WE SEE HIS FLIP ALKJSL:DJL:SHKLJBLASDFSDKL:J Normally I'd think that you're either terrible or scum, in this case I'm quite sure it's both. | ||
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On April 12 2013 01:57 Sn0_Man wrote: SHARRANT please claim asap. No you claim now. | ||
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On April 12 2013 04:15 Sn0_Man wrote: More accurately, with 2 people left to claim we have at least 1 unclaimed KP last night (BM killed Caller, Moc killed decon, Rayn/Palmar just kinda died, presumably 1 to mafia factional KP, leaving 1 missing). You still haven't claimed... | ||
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On April 12 2013 07:12 austinmcc wrote: I do not understand your play today at all if you are town 1. Because I'm sure he's scum 2. Because no one else believes me 3. Because you've been treating him like confirmed town when he's anything but completely differently from me who you also consider to be confirmed town despite the fact that his only actual townie points are a green check 4. He's scum bro 5. He'd actually see I'm town if he were | ||
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On April 12 2013 07:30 Keirathi wrote: The green check isn't the only thing that makes him town. I argued that he was town hours and hours before the green check was public. Why didn't you fight me about it then? Why do I need to argue your points? Most vets I've seen have completely misread newbs actions. It's ok Kei, you can win with me once people actually sheep me. | ||
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On April 12 2013 07:41 austinmcc wrote: I have information you do not. I will die momentarily, and you'll know I was town and not lying about it. So knock it off and trust that you are almost certainly wrong here. You see, I could believe that if your actions were consistent, but they're not at all. You've been treating him as someone you don't need to catherd despite being obviously wrong about me and constantly bringing it up. I've already called you out on this shit and nobody listens. He's scum. | ||
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On April 12 2013 07:57 Sn0_Man wrote: So far town has 0 defensive roles and no role checks that aren't full alignment checks (unless mocsta is Capitalist). Awkward. Geript, thoughts on today's invetion? 100% worthless since we know that GF can be an addon. | ||
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On April 12 2013 10:47 Mocsta wrote: I prob down with a Shevlocke/Geript lynch if you shooting OO otherwise OO/Shevlocke (for that showtime VT thingo) We can talk tonight about this, but you should read my filter again first. | ||
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On April 12 2013 11:14 austinmcc wrote: Maybe geript had terminally low blood pressure, and dangling sn0 claiming in front of him all day helped to raise his blood pressure and save his life. Wtf is this supposed to mean? | ||
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On April 05 2013 22:50 Restraining Order wrote: This is roughly where it stands, I didn't dig through to get all the second numbers for the 8's and 11's, but those don't matter that much. Sn0_man - 1, 1? could theoretically also be 2 or 3 I guess, but no reason to disbelieve it. obviousone - 234? Raynpelikoneet - 5, 1 Sinani206 - 7, 2 Visceraeyes - 10, 10 strongandbig - 234? same first as caller Caller - 234? same first as snb, larger second restraining order - 6, 2 Meapak_ziphh - 6, 3+ Austinmcc - 8 Shelvocke - 8 Deconduo - 8 Vivax - 8, 1 artanis[xp] - 11 sharrant - 11 billmurray - either 8 or didn't send Yamato77 - not sent, tried 11 MZ, Shelvocke, Vivax at the top of my list. | ||
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On April 12 2013 12:31 yamato77 wrote: The plan from here is simple: Check/Shoot/Lynch BM Check/Shoot/Lynch Mocsta GG You tried to grab justice vig right? Why BM then? | ||
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obviousone -- CPR doctor3** Raynpelikoneet -- DEAD UNKNOWN 5, 1 Sinani206 -- claimed Vote Rigger 7, 2 Visceraeyes -- NRA Member 10, 10 Geript -- Vanilla (denied NRA Member) 18,15 strongandbig -- claimed detective 2** Caller -- Showtime UNKNOWN 2** restraining order -- claimed framer 6,2 Meapak_ziphh -- America 6,3 artanis[xp] -- Assassin 11, X sharrant -- Vanilla (denied Detective) 11, X gonzaw -- Jack 8, X Austinmcc -- Copycat 8, X Keirathi -- 8, X Palmar -- suspected Emperor and TOWN 8, X Mocsta -- claimed Capitalist 8, X Shelvocke -- 8, X Deconduo -- claimed Janitor UNKNOWN 8, X Vivax -- claimed rolecop 8, 1 Oatmaster -- claimed recruiter mason 8, 1 billmurray -- semi-claimed Justice Vigilante ?? Yamato77 -- claimed vanilla denied Justice Vigilante ?? So 11:2 or 12:1 Town:Scum. Any chance of there being 3rd party? | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + Sn0_man -- Inventor 1,1 (green check from CopyJoat Austinmcc) Raynpelikoneet -- DEAD UNKNOWN 5, 1 Sinani206 -- claimed Vote Rigger 7, 2 (claimed green check from Keirathi inventor device) Geript -- Vanilla (denied NRA Member) 18,15 strongandbig -- claimed detective 2** restraining order -- claimed framer 6,2 Meapak_ziphh -- America 6,3 (claimed green check from strongandbig detective) sharrant -- Vanilla (denied Detective) 11, X gonzaw -- Jack 8, X Austinmcc -- Copycat 8, X (claimed green check from Keirathi NK) Keirathi -- 8, X claimed NKVD Mocsta -- claimed Capitalist 8, X Shelvocke -- 8, X -- claimed vanilla (denied Showtime) Vivax -- claimed parity cop 8, 1 Oatmaster -- claimed recruiter mason 8, 1 billmurray -- semi-claimed Justice Vigilante ?? Yamato77 -- claimed vanilla (denied Justice Vigilante) ?? Here are the people that I most suspect about lying about their claim: Bill Murray -- Nothing major need be said here Yamato -- OTTOMH I think this claim came after BM's hints towards dreamflower, but I plan on rechecking this when I have time. Vivax -- Parity cop is a very safe claim to make. Shelvocke -- Showtime already claimed and confirmed... safe claim Restraining Order -- Framer seems like an exceptionally odd pick to make from any alignment but it sounds like he thought it worked differently I guess??? | ||
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You are the Justice Vigilante. You are a compulsive vigilante that only shoots mafia. You must shoot every night that you are alive. However, you must aim carefully! If you attempt to shoot a townie, you will commit seppuku out of your misplaced sense of justice. If you successfully hit a mafia, you get to shoot again the next night. If for some reason your target does not die, your hit is refunded and no suicide occurs. You have to shoot regardless.... | ||
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strongandbig -- claimed detective 2** restraining order -- claimed framer 6,2 Mocsta -- claimed Capitalist 8, X Shelvocke -- 8, X -- claimed vanilla (denied Showtime) Vivax -- claimed parity cop 8, 1 Oatmaster -- claimed recruiter mason 8, 1 Yamato77 -- claimed vanilla (denied Justice Vigilante) Ok, so removing the obvious town and detective checks. That leaves us with 7 people to shoot into. strong and big was on the same numbers as Caller, so that's a no shot for me. My recommended shots for Bill Murray then are: Restraining Order, Vivax, Shelvocke, Mocsta or Yamato. I think the first 3 are the best bets are Vivax, Restraining Order and Shelvocke (in that order) as I've had a town read on yamato and mocsta for most of the game. | ||
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On April 12 2013 16:30 Bill Murray wrote: geript, with your list positioning, i feel you're lying you're not vanilla town whatsoever Shoot me then. I dare you. | ||
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On April 12 2013 16:35 Bill Murray wrote: Geript, you may have everyone else fooled, but you don't have me. I don't want to lose another player for us tonight, and you're pretty much guaranteed that. Your faction lost one of its last 2 KP, and you're probably something like a Politician, the way you're playing. Then shoot me if that's how you feel. The town will be minus 1 donkey and the better for it. | ||
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On April 12 2013 16:35 Bill Murray wrote: I'd rather wait on an invention or a parity check. I'm not JUST a justice vig, I'm the bootleggin' injustice vig. Grow a pair. If you think I'm scum then shoot. | ||
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On April 12 2013 16:37 Keirathi wrote: If I ask you nicely, will you pretty please shoot S&B? 1) I think there's a decent chance that he is scum. 2) If he's not, then your death (mostly) clears 3 people. 3) Your death gives us a ton of information if S&B does happen to be town. If we see your role flip and know for sure that you are JV, then WE know that caller was scum and we'll know better what we're looking for. This however will give the town actual information. Just remember to call your shot ahead of time. | ||
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ObviousOne Y,Y (2-4) Caller X, X (2-4 but not Y and the same number as S&B) VE 10,10 Artanis 11,11 I really think RO, Vivax or someone else is far more likely. | ||
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S&B check Yamato Vivax check Mocsta Keirathi check RO Mocsta check... S&B BM Shoot Vivax Sn0 make a KP invention and hand it out to obvious town. We want a stack of KP in case we get to the endgame. | ||
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S&B check Yamato Vivax check Mocsta Keirathi check S&B Mocsta check... RO or Vivax if you want. BM Shoot Vivax or S&B (pref for Vivax) Sn0 make a KP invention and hand it out to obvious town. We want a stack of KP in case we get to the endgame. | ||
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It's obvious that I'm pissed off towny. There's no reason for me not to blend D2 as scum. None. I could likely have made weak cases and got ignored all game. I wish I were NRA agent so anyone dumb enough to check me would get the fate they deserve for stupidity. | ||
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On April 13 2013 02:13 Restraining Order wrote: I don't think a compuslive day-justicevig gun would be a bad invention. All the more reason to give it to me. | ||
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I'm voting for Kei tomorrow because his claim could easily be bogus. | ||
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On April 09 2013 03:53 Keirathi wrote: Bleh, I got drafted into helping my mom in the garden today. So I probably wont be around for a few more hours. Some quick comments: 1) Artanis: His recent play feels more townie, and I thought he was a coinflip at best even before gonzaw died. Not sure why Caller (apparently) killed him. I (still) don't like him as a lynch candidate today even if Caller didn't kill him. 2) Caller: I hate everything about his play, but the fact remains that if Caller is Showtime! and used it now, on Artanis or all people, just doesn't make much sense from scum. Possible, but not likely scum IMO. 3) VE: He still hasn't done his classic scum tell that I mentioned, but he's also not done ANYTHING. With geript claiming that NRA was taken already b spot 6, VE is a valid option for having chosen it (Shelvocke too, since he's obviously a smurf of someone who is at least familiar with older games). I'm just not sure about him at all...if he did take NRA as scum, his play would make a lot of sense. Maybe we lynch him. 4) Shelvocke: MZ + austin had good points. I could get behind a Shelvocke lynch. 5) Sinani: Very possibly scum. I pointed out his weird "playing it safe" quote, and also how he described S&B as trying to direct the thread to justify his vote. He then came back to neither answer my questions nor expound on anything else (including his own reads), just to ask gonzaw his role and tell gonzaw to shoot BM. If not lynch today, then tomorrow. Anyways, be back in a few hours. On April 09 2013 23:51 Keirathi wrote: I hate everything about this so much. That entire post was just you rehashing things that had already been said. Geript had told us why VE was probably NRA and probably scum. Yours was just why NRA was probably scum, didn't include who it was. And EVERYONE had already concluded that gonzaw was shot by a scum assassin. Your entire contribution was...nothing new at all. Why are you trying to buy town cred for that, rofl. Funny the 180 on VE hunh. I completely outed VE as NRA and scum but Kei was only "maybe" interested in lynching VE. Tell me that's not fishy. | ||
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Because you're a bad player. | ||
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On April 13 2013 04:17 Sn0_Man wrote: Town geript is far better at mafia than this. I already caught 1 mafia, what do you want from me. | ||
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On April 09 2013 03:53 Keirathi wrote: Bleh, I got drafted into helping my mom in the garden today. So I probably wont be around for a few more hours. Some quick comments: 1) Artanis: His recent play feels more townie, and I thought he was a coinflip at best even before gonzaw died. Not sure why Caller (apparently) killed him. I (still) don't like him as a lynch candidate today even if Caller didn't kill him. 2) Caller: I hate everything about his play, but the fact remains that if Caller is Showtime! and used it now, on Artanis or all people, just doesn't make much sense from scum. Possible, but not likely scum IMO. 3) VE: He still hasn't done his classic scum tell that I mentioned, but he's also not done ANYTHING. With geript claiming that NRA was taken already b spot 6, VE is a valid option for having chosen it (Shelvocke too, since he's obviously a smurf of someone who is at least familiar with older games). I'm just not sure about him at all...if he did take NRA as scum, his play would make a lot of sense. Maybe we lynch him. 4) Shelvocke: MZ + austin had good points. I could get behind a Shelvocke lynch. 5) Sinani: Very possibly scum. I pointed out his weird "playing it safe" quote, and also how he described S&B as trying to direct the thread to justify his vote. He then came back to neither answer my questions nor expound on anything else (including his own reads), just to ask gonzaw his role and tell gonzaw to shoot BM. If not lynch today, then tomorrow. Anyways, be back in a few hours. On April 09 2013 23:51 Keirathi wrote: I hate everything about this so much. That entire post was just you rehashing things that had already been said. Geript had told us why VE was probably NRA and probably scum. Yours was just why NRA was probably scum, didn't include who it was. And EVERYONE had already concluded that gonzaw was shot by a scum assassin. Your entire contribution was...nothing new at all. Why are you trying to buy town cred for that, rofl. Funny the 180 on VE hunh. I completely outed VE as NRA and scum but Kei was only "maybe" interested in lynching VE. Tell me that's not fishy. On April 07 2013 12:25 Keirathi wrote: Anyways: raynpelikoneet: I just got out of RED Team (click link for his filter) with a town rayn, so my expectations of his town play are still in the forefront of my mind. And some very obvious things aren't matching up: 1) Progression of reads: I'm not going to quote every instance, but something really sticks out to me: + Show Spoiler + On March 26 2013 08:05 raynpelikoneet wrote: What's with the ninja vote marv? On March 26 2013 08:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why do you assume i was serious in the first place? On March 26 2013 08:27 raynpelikoneet wrote: A good question. After all it was prplhz who disappeared, not me. On March 26 2013 10:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: S&B: I never said i wasn't serious with my vote. I asked marv why does he assume i am serious. Something he also failed to answer. On March 26 2013 10:23 raynpelikoneet wrote: The reason i asked the question from marv was this post: He had voted me because i "overreacted" to prplhz. How does me asking "what's with the ninja vote?" make him change his vote to a stupid policy lynch? On March 26 2013 10:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: On top of that marv & Keir seem to be quite defensive about prplhz. Why not let the guy answer himself? On March 26 2013 21:43 raynpelikoneet wrote: I have one problem with marv. He pressure voted me early on in the game. When i asked his what's up with the ninja vote, he posted this: If he really thought i overreacted to prplhz why wouldn't he pressure me more? Was the "what's up with the ninja vote" somekinda secret townie answer i gave? If i was marv and i thought someone overreacted to something and i was already pressuring him, i would definitely keep the pressure on to try to find more clues about their alignment. Here he just completely drops the issue and changes his vote to a policy target (which i do not see serving any purpose in finding mafia). On March 27 2013 01:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: Besides this i havn't attacked people. I questioned marv and Keirathi. Keirathi told me why i was wrong in prplhz-defending-thingy, i agreed i was wrong and let it go. I questioned marv because i wanted him to do stuff. I agree with his reads/observations when he presented them and it makes me think he is town for now. He still didn't answer my question about the start of the game but because everyone seems to think it's irrelevant it probably is and i'm not going to sidetrack the discussion by screaming about it over and over again. Try again Cora. What you'll see is a direct thought process and how rayn's read progresses. He played like this for the entire game: see something he thinks is scummy, questions it, discusses it, and then either votes or moves on to something else. Or even just see something he finds scummy, dissects it, and makes a case. He's trying to figure out the game, and engaging people trying to get comments on his points/comment on their points/doing whatever he can to help town. Now let's look at this game: + Show Spoiler + On April 04 2013 22:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: You seem to be disagreeing with me here. What is wrong in what i said? On April 05 2013 04:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: 3 scum reads: Caller, RO, Oats. On April 05 2013 11:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: RO is failing to contribute to the plans provided pre-picking phase by " lolololollllll, i sent my numbers, can't change, fu all,, i don't need to do shit.." Kill him. On April 05 2013 11:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: Oats is bad town or scum. Artanis is .. hmm.. idk.. sharrant almost definitely town. deconduo, leaning on scum at him. RO = scum. kill him <3 Etc, etc. This is how his reads "progress" with every single person that he's called scum. He just pulls their name out of thin air. Maybe makes up some justification for it, maybe not. VE/RO/Caller/me/austin/BM/etc etc. He's called ~half of the people in the game scum for little to no reasoning. And those reads swing extremely wildly. Over half of the people he randomly calls scum are people that conveniently happen to already be under some suspicion/pressure. And some extremely strange flip-flops. You'll notice up there in the quote spoiler, he was calling Caller scum for most of the game. Then: Where did this come from? It makes no sense, because I don't see anything major that Caller changed, except he started pushing me. Or maybe that's the sense it makes; he stopped calling Caller scum once Caller started calling one of his "scum reads" scum (aka me). Which was my point to begin with: his reads just change when they're convenient to change. Not when he has sufficient reasons for changing them. Which is extremely different from everything about how he played in RED. 2) "The Plan": This point has already been talked about a bit, but I think it deserves a bit more attention. Notice what he says. People in the top picks need to have some kind of cooperation towards denying roles/picking strong roles. However, once he got his spot in the top 5, what happened to that cooperation? It was non-existent. He didn't even try. Town rayn in RED was cooperative and attempting to help town win all the way until end game, even when it meant he couldn't win himself (he had a dumb alternate win-con that involved killing a bunch of townies). He realized that he couldn't shoot us, or town as a whole would lose. So he sacrificed his own win-con and didn't shoot on the last night. Which makes me question this: "This is the only plan I will support!" "Oh wait, no. I'll support the plan that directly benefits me, even though I just said the other one was super good." He doesn't even explain why that plan is better than geript's. Just that suddenly, since the new plan gives him a free shot at the top 5, he would rather push that one. But also notice how in the quote about the cooperation, he says "I don't think the players who are going to pick first should be limited to X number of roles. They should pick whatever they feel is best for the town." Which begs the question: why the fuck did he say that he thought geript's plan was absolutely the best plan, then turn around and say that he thinks that plan is dumb just *ONE* hour later?? I can understand liking a plan, pushing it, then liking another plan better. But he completely flip flops by saying a plan is good, then almost immediately saying "no that plan is bad". It all just reeks of posturing to benefit himself, rather than what he legitimately thinks is the "best". TL;DR: Strange reads with no progression or reasoning, uncooperative, excessive posturing to attempt to get himself in the top picks. Rayn is scum. ##vote raynpelikoneet Weak case on confirmed towny Rayn. On April 08 2013 04:57 Keirathi wrote: @gonzaw: I just don't find your case all the convincing, tbh. I think the strongest point you make is the one about the needless complaining about the thread (and maybe a bit about the geript case), but I don't think that is enough to lynch him on. Most of your other points are just comparing him to other players, which is useless and futile. Artanis is not yamato, or rayn, or Sharrant, or me, or VE, or whoever else you compared him to. He's Artanis, and will play like Artanis, not anyone else. And about the "fake" aggression, I just flat out disagree with that whole section. I took a look back at British since people were talking about it, and he does that same kind of thing as town. Calls out a post, then antagonizes people for disagreeing with him or not commenting on it. Then moved on or keeps pressuring it, as appropriate. Overall, I'm not particularly interested in lynching Artanis today. Hard defense of Artanis. On April 10 2013 17:37 Keirathi wrote: Also, as an aside: Pretty sure Sharrant is scum. Look at these posts: In the pre-game. I think he was actually trying here to do what he claimed was happening with me. I think he was trying to draw attention away from VE and give VE and out by pushing sentiment back towards me. Deflecting away from Artanis. Chainsaw Artanis. But I think this is the kicker: This was almost immediately after the gonzaw shot. At the time, Mocsta and I (and maybe a few others), were floundering a bit about what role killed gonzaw. In strolls Sharrant being 100% sure it was an assassin kill (and remember, he's been hard defending the actual assassin). Keep reading a bit after that and see how the rest of the conversation went down. He tried to flip it to make Mocsta scummy, and he seemed to have put an extraordinary amount of thought into gonzaw being Jack before he flipped for a "townie". So yea, Sharrant is scum. And with that, I sleeps. G'nite! Look at this. He thinks Sharrant is chainsawing onto OO but qualifies with: On April 10 2013 17:42 Keirathi wrote: EBWOP: 1 last thing. I think we have 2 scum between Sharrant, sinani, and Vivax. Maybe OO. I think our lynch candidates for the day should be out of them. I'm going to drop my vote on Sharrant and sinani, and we can talk tomorrow. But seems to be thinking OO is likely scum or knowing he is: On April 11 2013 10:59 Keirathi wrote: Why not OO? You seem to be overly reliant on this "scum didn't double pick" heuristic. OO didn't double pick with anyone as far as I can tell. Earlier you said "There are likely exactly 2 scum within the people who picked 1-5", which includes OO, except you never talked about him again. Read his filter and tell me he gives an actual reason for suspecting OO on D2. | ||
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On April 13 2013 06:07 yamato77 wrote: Because if Keir is scum, he's playing the scum game OF HIS LIFE. If that's the case then why not try to give me a better target or convince Sno to do a different invention? Why not give reasons for me being wrong? | ||
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On April 13 2013 06:31 strongandbig wrote: because you are fucking retarded you ignored everything anyone said all day yesterday we no longer have any rational expectation that you will listen to us therefore it is no longer worthwhile to engage you If that's how you feel be prepared to read cases on yourself and Keirathi all next cycle. It's totes gonna happen. | ||
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Throw the Holy Hand Grenade at Bill Murray | ||
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On April 13 2013 12:35 yamato77 wrote: So some asshole picked a traitor role? WTF? Only 4 scum dead bro | ||
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Raynpelikoneet -- DEAD UNKNOWN 5, 1 Sinani206 -- claimed Vote Rigger 7, 2 (claimed green check from Keirathi inventor device) Geript -- Vanilla (denied NRA Member) 18,15 strongandbig -- claimed detective 2** restraining order -- claimed framer 6,2 sharrant -- Vanilla (denied Detective) 11, X gonzaw -- Jack 8, X Austinmcc -- Copycat 8, X (claimed green check from Keirathi NK) Keirathi -- 8, X claimed NKVD Mocsta -- claimed Capitalist 8, X Shelvocke -- 8, X -- claimed vanilla (denied Showtime) Vivax -- claimed parity cop 8, 1 Oatmaster -- claimed recruiter mason 8, 1 Yamato77 -- claimed vanilla (denied Justice Vigilante) ?? From the looks of it, we can expect 9-1 town to scum, that means that we can afford somewhere around 3 mislyches. In this regard, I think we should require that Sinani use the voterigging power today; not to alter the outcome but just to use it up. It's essentially an extra confirmation of townieness. Numberwise, I think S&B is more likely to be scum as I'm expecting BM to have tried with 8/1 or something. | ||
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On April 13 2013 14:01 Oatsmaster wrote: Lol what happened geript? No balls to shoot RO or Keirathi? Seriously Oats? Are you intentionally this stupid or does it come naturally? | ||
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On April 15 2013 11:21 strongandbig wrote: okay. when i flip town what are you gonna do next? What are your recommendations | ||
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On April 15 2013 11:49 Mocsta wrote: what, so if you lynch vivax/kei u trust snb check enough to believe what ever he says (if alive) No, you get double checks both ways. If there's a red check and Kei dies we double lynch the two. Kei and Sinani can't both be killed if we're right on no scum KP past natural. | ||
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On April 15 2013 11:58 strongandbig wrote: yeah geript really makes the game un fun We can talk about this afterwards, but I have the exact same feeling towards vets a number of times. | ||
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I'm going to request that everyone reads pages ~38-50 as it's a huge surge in Scum activity. | ||
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On April 06 2013 12:47 Bill Murray wrote: whatever you're just dumb town after all FUCK how did I miss this. | ||
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Page 51: On April 06 2013 12:47 Bill Murray wrote: whatever you're just dumb town after all BM flat out calls me dumb town. Clearly most of us were just skimming, but then after I make my larger case against VE here's what happens: OO takes a large quote that asks an obvious question. BM makes a random post of no significance but significant length considering he had just dropped like 18 one-liners. Keirathi asks how I know that RO is a mislynch. Those pages are a huge surge in KNOWN SCUM activity. I find it exceptionally odd to to think that there's no reasoning behind it. In The Game Bugs, Kita and BH were great at spamming/attacking away thread sentiment to deflect enough away from them. | ||
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On April 15 2013 14:49 Vivax wrote: I don't think scum sat there, organized and with a plan on what to do, to come out organized exactly when Keirathi got attacked. Have yet to see a scum pr0 team like that lol. Go reread those pages. Plus, this type of thing happened in the last large game WHERE I WAS SCUM!!! If you don't believe me then check it out. Don't you at least find it a little odd that BM on one page flat out calls me "DUMB TOWN" and Keirathi wants me to explain the phrase "RO is a great opportunity for a mislynch." Just go back and read. Look at time stamps. Follow the thread as it's evolving and you can see a huge spike in KNOWN SCUM activity. Why ignore this entirely? | ||
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RO on VE Oats on Vivax VE on RO Shelvocke on VE Sharrant on Keirathi Vivax on RO BM on Keirathi BM off Keirathi onto SNB Deconduo on SNB Yamato on Palmar Geript on VE Austin on Shelvocke Keirathi on Rayn Mocsta on SNB Sinani on SNB gonzaw on artanis Geript off VE onto Rayn Mocsta off SNB onto Artanis VE off RO onto deconduo Caller on Artanis RO off VE and onto SNB Deconduo off of SNB Oats off of Vivax and onto Artanis MZ onto Artanis Deconduo onto Shelvocke Vivax off of RO and onto Sn0 Artanis onto Shelvocke Palmar on Artanis Shelvocke off of VE and onto Artanis Keirathi off of Rayn OO onto Artanis Yamato off of Palmar and onto Artanis RO off of SNB and onto Artanis Caller off of Artanis and onto OO Sharrant off of Keirathi and onto OO Geript off of Rayn and onto VE BM off of SNB and onto Sinani BM off of Sinani and onto Artanis Shelvocke off of Artanis Yamato off of Artanis and onto Sinani Mocsta off of Artanis and onto VE Rayn onto VE Artanis off of Shelvocke and onto Caller Oats off of Artanis and onto VE Sn0 onto Sinani SNB onto VE Artanis off of Caller and onto VE RO off of Artanis and onto VE SHOWTIME VOTING POST END OF DAY Shelvocke onto VE In another more readable form: Unofficial Vote Count: Visceraeyes (8): Vivax (0): Restraining Order (0): Keirathi (0): strongandbig (2): Palmar (0): Shelvocke (2): austinmcc, deconduo, raynpelikoneet (0): Artanis[xp] (5): gonzaw, deconduo (1): Visceraeyes ObviousOne (2): Caller, Sharrant Sno_man (1): Vivax Sinani206 (2): Caller (0): | ||
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Also, when you look at the the splayed out votes, you can see a trend. Scum tend to be early voters on the non-scum wagons that are forming and late on the scum wagons that have formed. That leaves Keirathi, Yamato and Vivax in the trend. | ||
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I also ask you this... how many cases have scum made against scum at this point? Seriously? I don't remember any (although I'm not done with my readthrough). Honestly, I expect much better than this, but if you need to lynch me to realize that I'm right on Keirathi then please do so if you have to. | ||
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It starts here and then once Austin starts grabbing onto the Keirathi as scum idea Artanis drops his case on me on page 43 and Bill Murray gets super active. | ||
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geript -- town restraining order shelvocke -- vanilla check vivax sinani206 -- green check yamato77 -- early town read mocsta -- early town read Oatmaster That leaves 3 people I'm willing to lynch. I'll look at RO tomorrow, but for right now Vivax + Oats are the two people who I think have the greatest odds of flipping scum. I'm assuming that right now it's 6-1 double mislynch + NK leaves at 3-1 and MYLO. No double lynch means 6-1, 4-1 then 2-1 if they don't have any extra kp. Double lynch is slightly bad but not god awful. In the least it shortens the time frame. | ||
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On April 07 2013 07:58 Vivax wrote: If he looks like a great potential mislynch it should be in your interest to try the hardest to figure out his alignment no? Defending him isn't exactly the way to go. You say he could also be lazy scum, are you trying to get him to play in a way to exclude or confirm that possibility?No, you're doing the opposite. @Mocsta do you remember if it was Vivax or Kush who pointed out Yamato's attack on Hapa in DukeNukem in a similar way? | ||
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On April 08 2013 02:45 deconduo wrote: Seeing as you are having trouble with this Vivax: -I think X is scummy -Y votes for X You seem to think that means I should assume Y is town. This obviously completely wrong. There is nothing stopping Y being scum and X being town. One of the major things I remember from the podcast about LX was that Vivax had a very odd argument about people who didn't agree with him were scum. It's an argument that he didn't use as Town in the Game from what I remember. But this summary which is pretty spot on IMO is a return to the "if people don't agree with you then they're likely scum" mentality that Vivax attacked deconduo for. | ||
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On April 13 2013 02:55 Vivax wrote: Scum always defend their scumbuddies yeah. Just like OO. Oh wait. I find this an exceptionally odd quote. It's like he's very aware of when and how scum bussed. Then he looks for when OO bussed Artanis. On April 15 2013 13:02 Vivax wrote: Other incriminating stuff: Yamato initially wanted to lynch these guys: + Show Spoiler + On April 07 2013 15:13 yamato77 wrote: Going to bed. When I wake up tomorrow, I'm taking a look at this list of people: VE PALMAR SINANI MEAPAK AUSTIN One of them will get lynched. OO deciding to bus artanis at this time: + Show Spoiler + On April 08 2013 08:23 ObviousOne wrote: British Empire Mini Mafia II [Town]: Comfortable with 180 when confronted with new information Openly questions his detractors Sarcasm/teeth to his posts Early game attention grabber with BS vote on Marv (wasn't even in the game) - not afraid of the spotlight Direct/engaged mid-lategame One of his post-game posts I believe he mentioned before in this game, that he was trying to change up his playstyle a bit: + Show Spoiler + On March 09 2013 09:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Well, just reading the thread and getting reads off that is easy, actually doing analysis on players and posting it and trying to convince others, using meta, etc. is something else and it's not something you bothered with. When I did do so and people barely/didn't respond to it and still happily voted for me, it doesn't particularly make the game very fun. Fruity Mafia [Town]: First major thing that stands out to me is how he formulated this post. He talked about 4 other players then said ObviousOne looked bad (I really did, bee tee dubs): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17802815 He guilted me out of my scum read on Toad (Zessionar in that game): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17811235 Full of questions / interactions / poking Was a town power role and got very bold D2 but town confidence overall was high. Otherwise rather similar to British TL Mafia LI [Mafia]: Talks about things mafia would/wouldn't do (his example was scum don't make big slips) Points out a big scum slip (lol see above) Posts in a reassuring tone (regarding his own reads) Attacked inactivity and claims Post-game confessions: Characteristics I picked out from Haunted [2010]: - Makes summaries {conglomerations of players posts} with blanket statements regarding alignment - I used to do this all the time especially in my earliest games - Feigned/Real inactivity/unavailability - not necessarily a scum tell but a useful scum tool - Offers to be "helpful" for a period of time - not taking the initiative and doing something useful himself - Defensive stance - possibly a product of being under suspicion when being replaced in, but in this game was used to misdirect suspicion on lurkers to non-mafia faction THIS GAME: Dismissive in D0, not chasing shadows or anything really Some concept of a plan presented, not really pushed Not very inquisitive Giant poop in the thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18226316 No real back-and-forth happening Barely here The OBVIOUS conclusion: Scum Spend way more time defending / deflecting than scum hunting, less interactive than his town games. By extension of this, he's missing that edge of sarcasm and incredulity in his voice that is present when he calls people out on their bullshit as town. He doesn't seem interested in getting people to re-factor their reads. Way too defensive to match his town meta in any way. Added note: his filter is barely 2 pages and we've already been active for four real-time days if I am not fucking up my maths. Both scum game filters were short (less than 3 pages each) and showed him hiding by posting just enough to not be considered a lurker. Suddenly Artanis is among yamato's scumreads: + Show Spoiler + On April 08 2013 09:42 yamato77 wrote: Let's lynch Artanis. The fact that the lynch has met resistance and people are arguing about other cases that are "scummier" is a good thing. I love information. OO's analysis of his meta is decent, and coupled with gonzaw's case, I could see Artanus as scum. As for who to vig, it should obviously be sinani. If you read his filter, he posts opportunistically, and generally has little to say. One post in particular I called out as being especially horrible, the one where he gives his "thoughts" on the lynch candidates and is null on three out of four. I was scum with him in Red Team's Prize, and he's acting similar to that game, here his posting in the thread is quiet and not forceful. His "push" of BM as a vig shot is also terrible, because I actually have him down as likely town. As for myself, since people seem to think I need to contribute more, meh. I gave the game the start I wanted and I have some decent town reads out of that, so as far as continuing a high level of activity, I don't feel that it's necessary. I'm doing my own scum hunting, and I make myself known throughout the day on where I'm at. If I drop off the face of the planet, feel free to shoot/lynch me, but I'm not going to be hyperactive in these games anymore. Shortly after OO bussed, yamato adds Artanis to those he would lynch, without fighting for his own choices. Not only that, there's reasonable soft defenses of multiple scum buddies. | ||
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On April 08 2013 01:29 VisceraEyes wrote: In what way is this post any different from this post? You accuse Vivax of trying to "bandwagon" SnB but you yourself opened your "content" by similarly voting SnB with no reasoning. You accuse Vivax of not reading the thread, but somehow you missed the fact that gonzaw was scheduled for an earth-shattering scum-destroying case at the end of his countdown? Palmar I'm quite interested in why you think decon is town. That feels kinda like fucking bullshit from you. ##Unvote ##Vote deconduo | ||
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On April 16 2013 13:04 Shelvocke wrote: ##Vote Vivax ##Vote Oatsmaster Oatsmaster: I don't think he's trying to find mafia. I'm too lazy to copy posts from the qt, but it's pretty much just MZ (and RO to a lesser extent) giving reasons and making points and asking Oats "town or scum" and oats will reply with a meaningless one-liner. He doesn't make any effort to say anything productive of his own. It's not what I expect from a town player who took a mason role. Also nobody should be voting for yamato today. The fact that keirathi was killed last night is a strong indication that the last mafia member has to fear a cop check. As someone with a green check already on him, yamato doesn't have any reason to fear a cop. I'll look into this line of thinking later... must sleep. | ||
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On April 17 2013 01:04 Vivax wrote: You seem like another good candidate for traitor, being vanilla, right? Why don't you start explaining why you've not been taking part in our yamato discussion when you've apparently been here to show up when Mocsta dropped his vote on you? I'll bet my left testicle that there isn't a traitor of any kind. If I were either traitor, then how would I know about NRA member being picked ahead of me. | ||
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I've explained a few points why I think Vivax is scum. I'm going to be looking into Mocsta. His current attitude seems to be to find any acceptable lynch and that reads as scummy to me. | ||
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On April 06 2013 08:29 Bill Murray wrote: Artanis is scum with Keirathi GG On April 06 2013 08:36 Bill Murray wrote: VE and Geript look bad over an associative tell that actually changes my FoS On April 06 2013 10:24 Bill Murray wrote: FoS Restraining Order VE is town and scum are trying to get a D1 lynch on him On April 06 2013 10:36 Bill Murray wrote: this looks like restraining order is chastising his mafia partner here if RO is scum, so is OO On April 06 2013 11:25 Bill Murray wrote: palmar and caller are basically null because they are afk On April 06 2013 13:03 Bill Murray wrote: geript is yamato your top scum? On April 07 2013 09:44 Bill Murray wrote: I feel like RO and VE are mislynches I haven't seen any contribution from Keirathi whatsoever If he ends up doing something I like, I'll unvote him, if he doesn't, he hangs. On April 13 2013 00:11 Bill Murray wrote: yeah ill kill vivax On April 13 2013 09:53 Bill Murray wrote: i sent in a kill on geript hope you all dont mind ^^ Not a sure tell but I think that this is a reasonable associative tell that BM tends to pair 1 scum with 1 town when he calls out 2 people. | ||
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Mocsta -- 28 Geript -- 18 Oats -- 17 Yamato -- 14 Vivax -- 10 Shelvocke -- 3 Sinani -- 3 The 3 most inactive players have been Vivax, Shelvocke and Sinani. We have a green check on Sinani and Sinani is a known lurker. Shelvocke we have no clue who he is. These are our best lynches IMO. | ||
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On April 17 2013 04:12 yamato77 wrote: I'm also right in that none of what you guys are quoting makes me mafia, and all your cases are bad. I absolutely hate this line. We're close to MYLO. Get to work. I know that none of the cases are amazing, but that is not an excuse to not put in work. We need to be critically assessing each others arguments and investing into the game. WE ARE GOING TO LYNCH SCUM TODAY PERIOD!!! Everyone needs to treat this as a whole new day 1. Work to establish your towniness and innocence. HUNT SCUM!!! PLAY TO YOUR WINCON!!! Dicking around won't help us any. No one is immune to this. I played like shit for the past 2 days. It's not important right now. Focus on working to critically assess; reinforce the good points people have made. Work to create POSITIVE TOWN ATMOSPHERE. We are ending it today by lynching scum. Nothing else matters. Everyone take your head and your dick out of the sand. Reassess. Reread. Post who you think is likely to be town and critically assess those who you think are likely to not be town to find the best lynch. gogogogogogogogogogogogo | ||
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OO -- 0 VE --1 BM -- 0 This shows a mindset to avoid and never bus. OO mentions: Artanis -- 10 VE -- 8 BM -- 8 This shows a mindset to consider bussing VE mentions: Artanis -- 1 OO -- 0 BM -- 1 This shows a strong mindset to avoid other scum and never bus BM mentions: Artanis -- 10 OO -- 7 (plus some OO ones I don't want to try to count) VE -- ~15+ times This shows a strong mindset to not avoid other scum but not bus perceived scum assets | ||
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Vivax -- 8 but most in defense of him as a town read Yamato -- 5 and mostly critical Shelvocke -- 5 times and mostly critical OO mentions: Vivax -- 5 mostly wanting to lynch him Yamato -- 4 times mostly positive Shelvocke -- 2 interactions mostly irrelevant Also and odd post: On April 07 2013 16:01 ObviousOne wrote: Gonna read SNB and BM mentions: Vivax -- 5 times Yamato -- 2 times Shelvocke -- 2 times On April 12 2013 16:25 Bill Murray wrote: i just analyzed yesterday's voting, and all I can think about is how town vivax and MZ look after VE mentions: Vivax -- 1 time defending him Yamato -- 0 times Shelvocke --1 time but willing to lynch When you add in all of their mindsets together, one thing that seems to be the common trend is that among the revealed scum who are more ready to bus (OO/BM), Vivax is mentioned the most and mentioned as a lynch candidate AND the ones who are the least willing to bus (VE/Artanis) Vivax is defended. | ||
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On April 17 2013 04:55 Vivax wrote: What makes you think Shelvocke is town, and why would you want to lynch him if you think he is? Association among other things. However, if you'll note he's the #2 lynch candidate after yourself. | ||
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On April 17 2013 05:10 yamato77 wrote: Shelvocke clearly mafia. Clearly. I don't even need a case. Just lynch him. I really don't give a fuck why you think I'm a good lynch. I don't think you're a good lynch candidate at all. Can't you see that I'm trying to actively work to get your name off of the pedestal and keep Vivax and Shelvocke on it? I need your help here to do that. | ||
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On April 07 2013 08:23 geript wrote: Multiple times you've said you liked the case and sheer +1'd it. You gave a minor rehash of the points recently, one which quite frankly missed a main point entirely. You've completely ignored any points against VE. You continue to try and distract people with this bullshit draft numbers even after people have pointed out that it's both bullshit AND after you admitted that in a previous game scum did exactly what you thought they wouldn't do. Quite frankly, this is looking exceptionally similar to Vivax in LX where you were smurf hunting. Congratulations scum #3. On April 07 2013 08:24 geript wrote: Don't answer him. He's just fishing for information. On April 11 2013 11:58 geript wrote: Lol. Vivax totes scum. Town Vivax = crazy, invested, doesn't care how he posts, doesn't give up random stupid ideas lightly and has lots of random stupid ideas Scum Vivax = semi sane, lazy, drops crazy ideas, tries to look normal Vivax not reading = lazy Vivax proposing different lynch # picks to look active and drops it when blasted about it = scum Vivax not showboating about being right on lynch # pick idea = scum Vivax trying to make sense = scum Sn0 calling Vivax worst mislynch ever = protecting scum buddy GG town. Sheep Geript ftw On April 16 2013 12:39 geript wrote: One of the major things I remember from the podcast about LX was that Vivax had a very odd argument about people who didn't agree with him were scum. It's an argument that he didn't use as Town in the Game from what I remember. But this summary which is pretty spot on IMO is a return to the "if people don't agree with you then they're likely scum" mentality that Vivax attacked deconduo for. On April 16 2013 12:49 geript wrote: I find this an exceptionally odd quote. It's like he's very aware of when and how scum bussed. Then he looks for when OO bussed Artanis. Not only that, there's reasonable soft defenses of multiple scum buddies. | ||
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On April 09 2013 06:30 Restraining Order wrote: Actually Vivax is 100% scum. Through and through. Vigis, shoot the guy. If not, we lynch the guy tomorrow. I will not accept anything short of his cold, dead body. So, in summary BOTH flipped mafia implicate him heavily. For Artanis it's on either side, for VE obviously not really since VE didn't actually post. Summaries of both below, first comes Vivax' part, then the confirmed mafia's side. VE: VE's case is apparantly good, huh. I never knew. [1]: "I'll make mistakes, but that's totally not scummy because I warned you! And if my opinions turn out to be bullshit, well it wasn't intentional, okay!?!?" This is just scummy and not part of the association, but I cba to repeat this later. [2]: "I am suspicious of you for not commenting on VE's case" But that's not all he says with it, he AGAIN underlines how great and grand VE's case is. [3]: So the case was awesome and everything, but points that are clearly just strewn in to inflate its size are merely "not strong". No need for concern guys. That's totally not something that should give a townie a pause while reading it, it's merely "not strong". And we of course can all understand the motivation for putting it in there, right?? Right?? First part we've heard already I think. Second part is a blatant defense of VE. Quelle surprise. Then, for a long time, he simply ignores VE. Once it becomes clear that VE is a very real lynch target and he can do nothing to stop it, time for a tactics switch: Let's soft-push without commiting to it! He might not be the role he is, don't believe true things too easily! I want to call him scummy so I look like I call him out, but obviously I'd rather lynch townies and have no intention of lynching VE! (yes, this translates to me giving both sinani and sno townreads, deal with it) On VE's side there's not much, but there's something! Almost a miracle with that little activity.... Also known as: Where VE pushes a guy that's suspicious of Vivax. Coincidence? I think not. Apart from this, VE never mentions Vivax. Artanis: Easy as shit to do interaction, asking basically for a "yes" and a +1. [1]: "oh yes I totally looked at Artanis and I'm scumhunting and contributing, believe me. But I think a scum is town because [vague annotations about meta], thanks!" Further problems with this: He notes how he misread him in British as a reason for him to be wary of calling him scum. This is complete BS. Vivax has read me 100% wrong in EVERY game we have played together, apart from maybe LX if you want to nitpick, but ofc we were both scum there. DOES THAT MOTIVATE HIM TO REASSESS HIS READ ON ME IN ANY WAY? HELL NO. This is a textbook example of preferrential treatment. And of course, to top it off, he 'believes' Artanis' stupid excuse for not being active in an instant. [2]: Highlighting the relevant part again: "I don't think you can hold that against Artanis". Of course not. Who would hold anything against Artanis?!? [3]: "His agressive behavior isn't fake at all! Actually it's not even agressive at all! Actually it's not even behavior! Actually I'm not even town!" Eh. You get the gist. [4]: Case on artanis is, obviously, not convincing. Confirmation bias and such. Sure beans. "Artanis shouldn't be shot. Don't shoot scum. I'd prefer if you shoot trolls and lurkers instead." Of course he wouldn't shed tears for dead townies. scumslip scumslip ololololololol (writing so much makes me bored, sorry about that) Wifom argument that the gonzaw shot doesn't implicate Artanis at all. You know who said the same thing? Oh yes, Artanis! Hmmm. Going after Artanis is also scummy as shit, apparantly. We've seen the rest a hundred times already by now, only now Shelvocke is included. Who Artanis is currently pushing. Who is clearly getting prepared for a full scum-team push on him here. Just FYI. Watch out Caller, you gonna get nightkilled. There are some more threats to Caller about him killing Artanis, but I'm getting lazy. Artanis' side of things: Looks entirely unremarkable. It is. It's also never seriously considered or followed up on. This doesn't actually say anything of value either. Let's go full confirmation bias and say "Are you saying that like Vivax he rolls scum in 100% of his games regardless of his role PM" is an excuse to excuse Vivax' scummy behavior because he apparantly always does that. Then his read/list post states: Oh a townread. Because Vivax is supposedly not playing to either meta, and is apparantly 'cooperative'. What he forgets though, and continues to forget, is Vivax' scum play in LVIII. Which showed a marked absence of the raving moronic town Vivax we all rightfully hate. Guess what? This town Vivax is also not present in this game. But that little piece of meta will go ignored. Better not bring it up, and hope nobody else does. *insert 2 one-liners repeating his above read I cba to quote* LX as the sole hallmark for Vivax' scumplay. Aren't we forgetting a game? Luckily, dandy dan is here for you. So, when I'm obviously implying that he has played like he does this game exactly once before, and it was a scumgame, it would not do to check it and take a stance on that. Of course not. So yeah Vivax is like, maaaaafia and shit. Anyone remember this case? I'm going to be honest in saying that I didn't. | ||
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Kills a player of an opposing alignment (which also happens to be consistent with Justice Vigilante becoming Injustice Vigilante) Had an unknown time limit as per PM Combine an obvious not town BM (he lived and no scum died) and a red check, it makes it very easy to day kill him. If you don't believe me, here's someone you can believe: On April 13 2013 04:28 Sn0_Man wrote: @Geript: You are digging yourself a hole here. Previously, I wasn't sure what I was doing tonight. You could maybe have shot the person who checked you, or somehow arranged a plan that didn't involve you getting checked. Now you are going to receive exactly what you requested: A 1-shot compulsive justice vig shot. Have fun with it (you will have an entire cycle to let it tick away in your hand if you want). Feel free to concede now. | ||
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On April 17 2013 05:39 yamato77 wrote: So geript is confirmed town, huh? Lol. ... I've been trying to say it since day 2 nobody listened to me then so I see very little reason to start spouting it now. | ||
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On April 17 2013 05:42 Restraining Order wrote: But you still spouted it before I could get a proper read on yamato out of it (((Sorry, he's town though. If not, then he's on the block tomorrow. | ||
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On April 17 2013 08:05 Vivax wrote: Like, you're so bad geript, you didn't see OO being scum when he was right in front of you and neglect me contributing among the first to his lynch, you've been pushing for lynches on all claimed DTs and still aren't able to realize that your reads are simply shit and that you don't question them enough, and you're throwing away the only chance you've left to narrow down the suspects cause you're so derp. Go on If you are an actual DT of any sort, then odds are you would die tonight regardless. Of those left alive, there's only one person who you could reasonably check and that is RO. Sinani -- green check Mocsta -- green check Geript -- no check but obviously bad player and not scum Yamato -- green and VT check RO -- claimed Framer Oats -- Obviously going to kill a DT if scum Shelvocke -- VT IIRC and might not kill you | ||
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On April 18 2013 14:20 syllogism wrote: Should have given town LESS information if anything I think telling mafia a few roles, if not all, that didn't end up getting picked would be a decent idea for the next game. Would give them more flexibility in claiming and town claimers wouldn't instantly become semi-confirmed. Yes, mafia could actually pick a medic or DT, but there are so many absolutely ridiculous town roles that they can't actually win if they don't pick actually useful ones. Definitely not. Mafia already got way more information than town on how some roles worked and how interactions worked. I guess we could've asked more questions. Giving them freely claimable roles early is a bad thing as it's a huge boon | ||
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